Tonight I'd like to emphasize what I call self-practice or practice of being one's self. Being one's self or being one's self. Being concentrated. on fully exerting your position in the universe. As you've often heard, to learn the Buddha way is to learn the self. To learn to be fully the Buddha way is to learn to be fully oneself. And what I'd like to also emphasize is that when we become fully ourself, we become fully not ourself.

[01:23]

And for me, for example, to become fully me is to become fully not me. And for me to become fully not me is to become free of me, is to become free of my me consciousness, my egoistic consciousness, for me to become fully my egoistic consciousness is for me to become fully not my egoistic consciousness. And this is liberation from suffering for me. Liberation from the affliction of abiding in self, abiding in egoistic consciousness. But this particular meditation that I just suggested to you, which is for me to be fully me and thereby I become free of the affliction of being stuck in me, it just happens to involve me becoming not me.

[02:48]

For example, it becomes me becoming you. My becoming free of me is me becoming you. My being fully me means me becoming fully you. My becoming fully me is my personal liberation and it also becomes not my personal liberation. In other words, it becomes your liberation. And I've noticed that I can make an effort to be fully me. And I've also noticed that when I'm able to pretty much fully be me, I'm able to be pretty much not me.

[03:57]

Yes? What's the effort? Well, part of it is to be still, is to be present with me, is to remember stillness. So I've also, I mentioned last week, I'll say again, the teaching is that everything is speaking and everything is listening. For example, I am speaking and I am listening. But you might think, well, yeah, he's speaking and maybe he's listening while he's speaking. Can you imagine that? Well, it's true. When I'm speaking, I'm listening. But now you're listening to me, can you tell that you're speaking? If you're really still, you realize when you're listening to me that my speaking is you speaking.

[05:08]

If you wiggle, you might think, well, his speaking is his speaking and, you know, good for him. But again, if I'm still, I realize, well, that I'm listening while I'm talking. But also, if you start talking, if I'm still, I'm listening to you. But when I'm listening to you in stillness, I realize that I'm listening to myself, that you're speaking. for me, or as me? If you don't think so, that's allowed. But if you want to understand, then if you're still with your speaking, you realize that you're listening and that your speaking is my speaking and your listening is my listening. It takes quite a bit of effort to follow this, but I'm still not clear what the effort is. I mean, it's an effort for me to kind of follow what you're saying, but I'm still... When you say effort... Well, there's one right there.

[06:16]

It's an effort for you to follow what I'm saying. It's an effort for you to follow what you're saying. And that's what you're talking about when you say effort? Yeah. Well, in that case, it's an effort for you to... Earlier you said... Something about an effort to be yourself. Yeah. The funny thing about being myself... I don't know about you. Just kidding. I do know about you. But anyway, the funny thing about me is that it's actually a job for me to be me. I actually have to work at it. Yeah, but what's the work? I mean, I believe you. What's the work? It's like remembering... Remembering me? You know, I'm already here. Why do I have to remember? But when you say remembering me... Remembering self?

[07:22]

Have you ever remembered yourself? Well, I don't know if you have either. I have remembered myself quite a few times. Like I'm living and suddenly I remember myself. And that's the effort. Well, in that case it's like sometimes the effort seems like spontaneous. Like I just happen to remember myself. Like somebody says, is Reb here? And I go, oh yeah. I guess I am. Or I come in a room and I notice everybody and then I notice, oh, there's somebody else here. Sometimes I go in the room and I haven't forgotten myself. So I'm going into the room and then there's those other people. So I already remember myself a lot of the time. And am I aware of that? If I'm still, I would say I am. How's the air?

[08:27]

Can we close that door now? Is that okay? Will you be all right if I close the door? You fall asleep? Okay, well, leave it open then. Especially the people close, especially people close to the door, if you're up for it, fine. You okay with it? Okay. You are yourself, I am myself, and it turns out it's a job. It's a task to be what we are. You could say, well, how come? Well, I don't know. Because that's the kind of creatures we are. Is that we are effortful. And if you don't make an effort, you're not being yourself. Yeah. Do you mean like your altruistic self? Or just like yourself that likes to eat pizza and smell the flowers? You've got an altruistic self? Yeah. Remember that one too then. I mean, you know, I have, sorry, I don't know if you know that, but I have, I have a self that aspires to, you know, to being good and to doing my best and things like that.

[09:43]

But I also have a self that's, that can be lazy about those things too, or unaware. Can you hear her? She has a self that aspires to be kind and helpful and generous. Yeah. So again, part of becoming fully of that self is to study that self. So you got a self, yeah? And you got aspiration, yeah? Or you got an aspiration to Be really cool. To be really whatever you aspire. To be really kind no matter what. There could be an aspiration like that. And then there's a self there. Studying the self means to study the self that lives with the aspiration and to study the aspiration that lives with the self.

[10:53]

Being fully oneself would involve studying thoroughly where the self lives. And it lives with lots of aspirations and actions and intentions. So part of being fully yourself is to pay close attention to what's going on with yourself, which is these aspirations. And then also there's these forgetting aspirations. So part of stud being fully still is to be still with forgetting the aspirations. With an impulse to be lazy. Or, you know, etc. Or reactive. Part of studding yourself is to be fully there with being aspiring, forgetting, remembering, being reactive, being lazy, all these things are possible things in our life, and I'm there.

[11:58]

And being still, I can be fully there with whatever it is, and it may seem like an effort to be still even though I'm already there. Just like tightrope walking, you sort of have to be quite present and still with the wobbling, with the balancing. You are there, and yet you seem to become more skillful at being present. And then you get feedback when you get distracted. It would be the same all day long, that you're walking the tightrope of yourself. and all these incredible richness of mental events are going on with you and physical events are impinging and you're trying to be fully there. Doesn't mean you don't fall off the rope, it just means you try to be fully there as you fall off the rope.

[13:10]

And I'm proposing that if you're fully there on the rope or off the rope, you're fully not And you're liberated whether you're on the rope or off the rope. You're liberated whether you're aspiring or lazy. Of course, if you're present with being lazy, you're not lazy. You're completely, wholeheartedly lazy. And then you're not lazy. But if you're not lazy half-heartedly, then you're not lazy half-heartedly. Or you're diligent half-heartedly, so then you're just stuck in being half-heartedly diligent or half-heartedly lazy. I guess half-heartedly lazy sounds pretty good, better than lazy. Half-heartedly diligent doesn't sound so good. But they're similar. This is self-practice.

[14:17]

This is what I mean by self-practice. It's all day long available. It's an opportunity. This consciousness is an opportunity all day long. Every moment. This is the opportunity. And learning how to be yourself, or learning how the self is, is learning what the Buddha way is, because in the case of me, or in the case of you, you do not have to be the slightest bit different to be Buddha at this moment. And Buddha is not the slightest bit different from you at this moment. But, you could say, but, Buddha is definitely more you than you are. Because Buddha has learned how to be completely what Buddha is, which is the same as you being completely who you are.

[15:21]

And asking me questions about how you make the effort is part of the effort. And you asking me questions about how to be completely yourself is part of how I am completely myself, that you're asking me about that. that you're calling this teaching into question is part of how I am practicing this teaching. And if I offer these teachings and you start to question yourself, yeah, what I am calling you into question, I'm calling your being yourself into question. And I'm not saying you're this or that. I'm not saying you're not yourself or you are yourself. I'm just saying, well, how are you doing? Are you completely yourself? Yes? When you say, when you speak, you're listening, and then I'm listening.

[16:33]

I'm saying everything is both speaking and listening. And I'm saying the speaking and listening is simultaneous. And I'm saying they're the same. And that's for me, but that's also for me looking at you. The piece of that I'm challenged by when I'm speaking right now, this is my voice and my body coming out of my body. And we pretty much know that as... So you're speaking now and are you listening to yourself while you speak? Yes. Okay. But when you said you're also speaking when I'm speaking, what do you mean? Well, I mean I'm listening to you. So you're speaking and you're listening to yourself speak. Okay? I'm listening to you speak. Okay? But if I'm really listening to you speak, I realize that I'm hearing myself.

[17:35]

because my voice is in your mind? You could say because of that. It's just somehow I understand that who I'm hearing is that you are speaking for me. People often ask questions for me. I come to this class and you ask... I do sometimes ask questions in this class, but mostly you ask the questions for me. You're speaking the questions for me. You're calling me into question. You're talking for me. You're helping me have an ethical relationship with you by asking me these questions. I can ask myself, but it kind of doesn't count. Because I get to choose the questions I want to ask me, right? It doesn't really call me into question. You call me into question. So you're speaking for me. And that's going on with everything. Everything promoting is face-to-face transmission.

[18:40]

And it's, you know, the Buddha's looking at us, we're looking at the Buddha. But the Buddha may kind of see us differently than we see the Buddha, but the Buddha looks at us and says, even though you see me differently, I'm exactly like you who sees me differently. And you may not quite get that yet, but the Buddha does. Yes, David? As one moves on or not on the title and rests in that without much effort, I have noticed that There's a tremendous reduction in likes and dislikes, because those, it seems to me, that they require judgments, which are far less important. And so a greater sense of equanimity, and it's more meeting situations, and that not even good.

[19:43]

And what I'm saying is, in that situation you just reported, in the situation you just reported, which sounds pretty nice, I'm saying there still is the opportunity to be fully that situation or not. even though it sounds like a nice situation, sometimes people are in really nice situations, but they're not fully exerting the nice situation. So you just told us a nice situation, and you told us a story about how that nice situation arose. Right? And I'm saying to you, what I'm talking about is to practice being fully in that story you just told me. And if you're not, then you're going to be partially in that story and then you're going to be partially not in that story. So you're going to be partially liberated from that nice story and partially stuck in that nice story.

[20:54]

So then I'm going to be partially liberated and partially stuck. So would you please, you know, would you please be fully in that story? that he just told us? And then tell me about how you're not in that story? I think I'm moving in that direction. Please come... And whether I achieve it while in this body is not known. Okay. And whether you're fully the person who hasn't achieved it or not is what I'm talking about. And if you're fully the person who hasn't achieved it, then you will not be that person who hasn't achieved it. And that will include me, because I'm not that person. So me, yeah, you realizing me is your liberation from you.

[21:59]

And also, it's my liberation, even if I'm lazy. but I don't get it if I'm lazy. I won't understand it because I won't be wholeheartedly me, so I'll be stuck in me. Yes? Could you speak up a little? Yes. So, if you are me, I guess when you say, you know, it's helpful for us to ask some questions rather than you ask yourself questions because you get to choose the questions. Right. So it seems like you're giving some privacy to human face-to-face meetings versus No, I'm saying all things, not just humans.

[23:06]

You know, dust particles are also speaking and listening. But if I'm listening to a dust particle, I think I'm listening to the dust particle. But that seems sort of like me. It seems similar. How do I know I'm listening to this particle and not to my so-called self, which isn't myself, because everything else isn't myself? When you listen to me, isn't it the same? Could you ask the same question when you're listening to me? Yes. So now you're listening to me? Ask the same question. How do I know... You know, whatever you want to know, just finish the question. No, I'm listening to Reb. How do I know what? Well, the same one would be, how do I know that I'm listening to myself?

[24:09]

How do you know what? How do I know that I'm listening to me? Oh, well, I guess when you realize that you're listening to me, it won't be so much that you know, it would be more like you wake up. you kind of like go, oh my God, you know. Before it was him talking to me, and suddenly it was me talking. You sort of wake up to that, and then when you look at it, you say, I think I can trust that. Were you serious when you said you can't ask yourself? Well, I can ask my questions, but they're not... I ask myself questions. I do ask myself questions. And they're not totally useless, but they don't really put me into doubt. They don't really put me on the line the way yours do. I can try, you know. Are you being a good boy? Are you on the right track? That's okay. But that doesn't really put me on the line the way when you ask me. Do you get questions from non-humans?

[25:13]

Yeah, like I read books and I get questions. The book questions keep flying at me from the book which aren't on the page. Yeah, I get questions from non-humans. I get questions from flowers. Like right now I'm totally inundated in flowers and they're calling to me and asking me questions all day long. I'm surrounded by tulips which I'm responsible for, and so are you. And, yeah, so this one gorgeous tulip fell over, and I just, so I picked it up and cut it, and then I put it in a vase, because it was like fell over onto the ground, the stem. So I cut part of it off and put it in a vase. And then the thing was so big, it even fell out of, it broke, it broke its neck, like my hip, it broke its neck.

[26:15]

So then I took it out of the vase and then with a tiny little bit of stem that had left, I put it like, you know, into a cup with a cup with all the water right up to the top. And I just thought, you know, these flowers are so precious and they need so much help. And this flower is really helping me and asking me questions. Are you going to help me? And you say, well, that's easy. Yeah, okay, okay. Questions are not always hard. But everything's asking me questions. Everything's asking me questions. Everything's talking to me and I'm listening to everything. And if I don't listen to everything and I don't see that everything's talking to me, I'm saying I'm missing out on this life where everything is precious and calling to us. Everything's calling to us.

[27:17]

The flowers are calling to us. And when I get home tonight, I don't know if that flower is going to be out of water, but even so, it's going to change. And it's still calling to me. Everybody's calling to me. And when I hear the call, when I feel it's putting me in question by its call, then I feel like this is where my life is. This is an ethical relationship. When I feel like I'm being called, I'm being called into question. And if I'm not called into question, I try to be... Actually, that's one of the examples where maybe I hear a call that doesn't come from me that says, wait a minute, this is funny. You're not being called into question. Sounds not good. Yes?

[28:24]

How do you feel when you realize that you can't save all the flowers? I haven't realized that. You cut them all and put them in water. No, but even the ones who don't fall over, you know, who never fall. Some of you know these flowers I have. I have tulips that are three feet tall. Here's the pot, and they're that tall. And they're like, the really tall ones, they're that tall. I don't know how they do it but they go and they're purple and white and it rained last night and wind and they did not fall over but what happened is the pedal got blown off but the stem did not break did I save those tulips? did they call for my help?

[29:28]

I think they did and did I hear them? I think I did. Was there a call? Was there talking? They were talking, right? They were calling for help. I heard them, and their call was my call. They're my babies. I planted them. That relationship is what saves tulips and what saves me, is to have that kind of relationship with tulips. But it does not stop the petals from falling. So these particular ones, the stem doesn't drip over, the petals fall off. The other ones, the petals are, there's so many petals on top of some of these tulips that almost no tulip can hold those petals up. There's so many. And so they go... So I... I can save... If I go down, I could go over to... over to those paddles, I mean to those tulips that have drooped from their own weight, and I could try to lift them up.

[30:38]

And I could fall down, you know, and have another accident, you know, and never get up again and save those tulips. And both of us, me and the tulips, are both in the ground. But we're both, we're doing this thing together. I'm being me, stupid me falling down, trying to lift the tulip up, the tulip being stupid, heavy, gorgeous tulip falling over. That's what saves, that actual relationship of where I'm speaking and listening right now and you're speaking and listening, that's what saves you and me. We can save each other. In our nature, we'll save us. So what's wrong with this picture is also what's right with this picture? Yeah, yeah. John? I like the word, you're saying, save, save, the calling, save.

[31:43]

I keep thinking, why aren't they just saying, hello, come play with me? Yeah, that's what they're saying. They're saying, they're going, hello, come play with me. They're calling that out to me. And I'm hearing it. And I'm responding. That's reality. They can say other things besides, come play with me. They can say, get away from me. That's sometimes very attractive. That's a different way. What I'm saying is this radical teaching. Everything is calling out to us in many ways. Some are tulips, some are daffodils, some are humans, some are particles of dust. Everything is calling out to us. and listening to us and we're calling out to everything and listening to everything. That's reality. And we're doing it at the same time and it's the same thing. Your speaking is the same as my listening and so on.

[32:47]

Is your name Jingles? What is it? Ann. Ann. Isn't that funny that I thought your name was Jingles? I think that Jim also answered to us. Anne? Anne's kind of simple compared to Jim's. Somebody said Jim. Huh? Somebody said Jim. Somebody said Jim. Anne? I was going back to this question at the first. And that way we have diligent and thinking about Trump and thinking... And what I'm getting from what you said about that is it's not ever going to change. And so I have total despair about saving the world. But by saving my, you know, and I'm so upset with myself that I'm not doing something that

[33:56]

I just had this feeling when you said that, I said, oh, if I just let myself be in despair and then that was okay, then I actually, you know, something else would happen. Yeah. If you would totally become the despair, I'm just saying, and it's not easy to do, because despair means lack of hope, If I'm in despair and I'm totally in despair, I will become not totally in despair. That's the teaching I'm offering. But it's hard to be totally anything. Huh? There's so many things you want to avoid. This is my practice, is to be totally me when I'm fragile, when I'm in pain, when I'm in despair, when I'm calm, you know, when I have opinions. I'm various things, just like you.

[35:04]

My job, the job I actually am happy to have is the job of learning this person, which means I have to be totally this person. I have to learn how to be totally this person. And I have various practices that help me be totally this person. I practice generosity. I try to really let myself be the fragile person I am. the despairing person I am. Whatever. I try to be generous. I try to be ethical with it, which means I realize in order to be me, I have to be in relationship with people who ask me questions. Or don't even ask me questions, but they say things that put me in question. If I don't have that in my life, I'm probably not doing the job of being totally me in despair. So it's hard for me to be in despair without you putting me in question about my despair.

[36:06]

But you are putting me in, if I'm in despair, you are putting me in question. Not necessarily by saying, you know, do you really think you're in despair? But you might say that to me. You might come up to me, how are you today? I might say, I'm in despair. You say, do you really think you are? I might go, and now I'm more into it, thank you. Before you asked me, I was thinking I was in despair, but now I'm more into it thanks to your question. Yeah, great. Ask me some more. So I can be more... And then be patient with being in despair. Be patient to being fragile. Be patient with being a white man. Be patient with being whatever. But you can't do it without generosity and ethics, and you can't practice ethics without other people asking you, putting you in question, which sometimes means they ask you questions, and sometimes means they make statements, like I often tell you. When I got ordained, Suzuki Roshi said, I'm sure that you're getting ordained ahead of other people won't make you arrogant.

[37:11]

Or I'm sure you won't be arrogant about that. He didn't ask me a question. He made a statement that made me wonder, am I arrogant about becoming a priest? And so on. People can ask you questions, but they can put you in question. They can ask you questions and you can miss the chance of being put into question. But we do need other people to relate to us with questions and with statements, talk to us or even listen to us. Sometimes I'm talking to people and they don't seem to be talking, but I see the look on their face that makes me question what I'm doing. Like they're frowning or crying or going to sleep. And I kind of say, well, what am I doing here? Or they're laughing. I need this to be fully me, to be fully, and then I need to be patient with me at this, and then I need to be diligent with it, and I need to be calm with it.

[38:27]

Then I can be totally me, and then I can be not me. In other words, I can be you. And everything else is not me. And then everybody else gets included in my practice of being me, which they already were because I couldn't be me if it weren't for not me. But first of all, I have to be me totally. Then I realize I'm not me. And then now we're cooking. Are you you and not you at the same time? Or are you not you sometimes and you sometimes? It's kind of like... What I really am is the pivot between me and not me. And the Buddha is the activity of pivoting between, in my case, the Buddha here is a pivot between me being me and me being not me. That's what I really am. I'm at the center of me and not me. The me that is actually the center is invisible.

[39:31]

The actual me that's the center of the universe is invisible and around this me that's the center of the universe, which is invisible, is a visible me, an audible me, and an invisible me. And the invisible me is you. I can't see those... What I really am is invisible and it's between me, the usual me, and not me. And that practice of being, that pivot, is what we call our practice. Or we call it Zazen. Yeah. Could you say gate instead of pivot? Or would that change it? You could say gate if it's a pivoting gate. Yeah, like... That's what Sukhriya says, like one of those turning doors. You know? In Zen Mind, one of those... What do you call those doors? Revolving doors. If it's a revolving gate, but it can't be like gates that just sit in there, stuck in being a gate. Or like in saloons.

[40:36]

Yes? In saloons. I think you may have already answered this question, but I still want to ask it because I'm still struggling with it. I have vowed to any suffering, and yet I recognize that suffering can be transformative. So I would probably... Think about that. I agree. Suffering is transformative. When suffering is fully suffering, it's not suffering. And not suffering is not exactly the transformation of suffering. Suffering is an opportunity for transformation when you realize that suffering is not suffering. But I'm not going to realize suffering is not suffering by being half-heartedly suffering. And also to go around and look for more suffering to help me be more wholeheartedly suffering is missing the suffering I've got already.

[41:43]

It isn't that suffering is transformative. It's that suffering is offering a great opportunity to be fully that and then to realize not suffering. Because not suffering is really important for us to understand. But it's not that you switch from suffering to not suffering. It's that you realize suffering isn't suffering. And also the same with not suffering. Not suffering is equal to suffering. If you ever run into not-suffering, that will be as good an opportunity as regular old suffering. And not-suffering is a little bit more dangerous, so you need more help if you happen to slip into that. What you need help to do is to be not-suffering so fully that you let go of it. And then say, okay, suffering. Because not-suffering is not not-suffering, it's suffering.

[42:49]

Well, you know, I don't really go with that vow to end suffering. That's one translation. So vow to end suffering doesn't mean that there's no suffering. So another translation of that in the word is vow to actually in our four vows, which we can sing at the end of class tonight. The character really needs to like cut through. or to penetrate. The character has a radical for an axe. So to end suffering, it's more like to come to the end of suffering. Like you got some suffering? Come to the end of it. Go all the way to the end of the suffering and at the end of the suffering you will meet not suffering. So I vow to come to the end of it is more, I think, what I would say is the spirit. I vow to come to the end of greed, hate, and delusion. Not get rid of them, because if you get rid of them, then now you're stuck in gotten rid of them.

[43:59]

But if you ever do get rid of them, which could happen, then you have to fully exert that, and then that becomes not getting rid of it. It's the not abiding. We are pivots. We're not abiding in... I'm not abiding here in reality, but I have to fully be this to realize I'm not abiding in this. And that's what I'm working at. Because that's my job. I signed up for the job. And again, I've told you over and over, Suzuki Roshi gave me the name. Around the time he was saying, I'm sure you won't be arrogant about getting ordained. Then when he gave me my name, he said, the first part of my name, which is Tenshin, he said, that means Reb is Reb. So the name he gave me is, my job is to be me. And me being me is the working of the whole universe.

[45:03]

And you being you is working in the whole universe. And the whole universe is working hard at being you. It's a big effort every moment to like make it like this and then get over that and make it like this. You're the whole universe like this. There's a great function that's working to be you. And so what goes with that is you being you. And then he said, you know, what my name means is Reb is Reb. And he says, people may have a problem with that. But he didn't say, you know, you may have a problem with that. People includes me having a problem being me and also having that when I'm trying to be me, other people have a problem with me too. I'm not the only one who's got a problem with being me. Other people do too. And I need that. I don't need to have a problem being me except when I do.

[46:07]

Sometimes it's easy to be me and other people have a hard time with it. That calls my ease into question. Like I'm having an easy time and other people are going, oh, how can you do that? And they're often very nice about it, kind of like, oh, daddy. people are generally kind of nice at calling me into question and Suzuki Roshi was too like I showed you he didn't say you arrogant whatever you arrogant disciple he said I'm sure you won't be arrogant about this what's he saying Oh, another time. I moved a sitting mat with my foot like this.

[47:12]

I'm doing it now just as a demonstration. I wouldn't ordinarily do that. So I moved it with my foot and he turned to another student and he yelled at the other student, we do not move these cushions with our feet. And he goes... So he got called into question and then I got called into question like... wow, what a way to teach me. So I need, it's not always easy to be called into question, but I need it and so do you. And when it's happening, now I have a living ethical relationship. And I need ethical relationships in order to be me. And I'm saying so do you. Ethical relationships are nice, they're good, they're happy. Ethical relationships are basically happiness.

[48:14]

But they have another function, which is they help you be fully yourself. which has another function, which is to liberate you from being yourself, which has another function, which is to liberate everybody, because when you're free of yourself, you're everybody, and everybody's included in your liberation, which is the whole point of the whole thing. But it involves generosity, ethics, patience, diligence, and concentration in order to be me, in order to be you. And I need your help to do those practices. And you are helping me. And so I say, thank you very much for helping me be me. And you can say thank you to me. You're welcome. And thank you so much. Yes? I'm just thinking when you're using the word ethical right now, You know, what other words would be used for that?

[49:27]

Just. A relationship of justice. So like I have, you know, I think things about you or whatever, but what I think about you is kind of biased from my egoistic point of view. So I'm not really doing justice to you if I think things about you and I think they're true. It's not really a just relationship. Even if I think you're a wonderful, kind, sincere, diligent, all the kinds, I think you're just totally full of virtues. It's certainly a nice thought. But if I actually think that that's the way you are, I'm kind of, you know, I'm sort of biased and not doing justice. I'm not doing justice to you. You're more than I can ever think you are. And then if you call me into question about what I think you are, now I'm starting to open up to doing justice to you, of realizing, well, maybe she is all these virtues, but she's also basically absolutely and completely other than what I think she is.

[50:36]

I can bring that along with all the nice things I think about you. Now, if I didn't think nice things about you, it would be the same, which would be a big relief. these flowers are also entirely, you know, completely other than what I think they are. And when I open to that, then this is like I'm doing justice to them. Well, how about, for example, like you're walking along and you You do suddenly perceive the flowers or the grass. Yeah, they're there. And you don't really have a thought so much as you just feel them calling to you. If you don't have a thought, in a way, you're not in ordinary egoistic consciousness. You're just responding. I don't know. Anyway, you don't have any problems at that point.

[51:39]

And I often told the story, one of the first difficult teachings or surprising teaching I heard from Suzuki Roshi, he says, when you look at a flower and you say it's beautiful, that's a sin. So if I look at these flowers and I say, okay, you guys, you are blah, blah, blah, blah. One of the things you are, you're beautiful, you're fragile. So I've been, you know, that doesn't do justice to them. But I can still talk about them without believing that that just does. My little human words do not do justice to flowers. But I can still talk about them. And other people can talk about them, and I don't have to say, shut up. I can listen to them do these things. But we can, at the same time that I say, you know, you're really a good person, You're an excellent student. You're so helpful. At the same time that I say that, and I kind of mean it, but I don't mean that that's what you really are. That's what I think about you. I can say, I think you're a really good student.

[52:41]

Simultaneously, I'm remembering, maybe, that this person is completely other than what I just thought. So ethical is kind of like the respect for the big picture. Or the Buddha? Ethical is like all my opinions about you are in question. They were anyway, but now I feel called into question. So I'm still going to think you're an excellent student, but I'm not going to think that reaches you. I'm going to say I'm going to appreciate you and appreciate you and appreciate you and all thoughts about you while I'm appreciating you, but I'm If I'm ethical, all my thoughts are called into question. And that helps me remember who you really are, which is completely other than what I think. That's how I do justice to you. And that's when I can't even, even if I do a million vows to you, it doesn't really reach how... What we are.

[53:47]

Yeah, but I'm moving in the direction of being just to everybody. And that's how I become me. I can't become me if I'm not just to other people. So I'm working at it. And you can't really become just to other people if you're not really you either. Exactly. That's right. Elena. Elena. A little while ago you talked about not suffering is really not suffering. I thought of the world of duality, not suffering, where still we are in duality, or we could be in duality, not suffering. Yeah, you could be in the not suffering part of duality. And then justice, do you mean justice is not being indwelling to the middle way?

[54:54]

No. I think doing justice is the middle way. Doing justice is the middle way. I agree with that. The middle way, the Buddha middle way is doing justice. But doing justice is not to get out of, go someplace else from suffering. The Buddha comes into suffering and practices the middle way in suffering. And if the suffering goes away, the Buddha practices in suffering going away. Whatever it is, the Buddha practiced the middle way. And the middle way is to do justice to whatever's going on. It's just that Robin brought up the suffering part, and I'm just saying you can practice the middle way with suffering, but you can also practice the middle way with not suffering. With, yeah, not suffering. If there was such a, and there is not suffering, always along with suffering. So you got the suffering, and you practice the middle way with suffering, that means you totally exert the suffering. and then you realize the suffering is not suffering.

[55:56]

Then you practice the middle way with the not-suffering and you realize the not-suffering is suffering. You don't get stuck in either one. Not too many people have the problem, well, actually, some, I think, some drug addicts do have the problem with being stuck in not-suffering for a little while. They're not, by their practice fully exerting the not-suffering of the drug, So they have to wait till the drug wears off to flip and realize that right in the middle of this not-suffering of heroin, there's suffering. It's hard to realize it. And it's hard to realize it in the middle of suffering, but it is possible. And then if you realize it, that suffering is not, you can do it with not-suffering too. So you don't get stuck in not-suffering. But you never have one without the other. Suffering is a pivot. Not suffering is a pivot. They're both pivoting.

[56:56]

And we are too. And all the pivots are coming to us. We include all the pivots. When you're at the pivot, you hear the true dharma. And you can't really see how that all happens, how it arises? No, you can see stuff arising. We do see stuff arising and ceasing, and we can be wholehearted about that. And if we're wholehearted about that, we'll realize the way that the things are arising are ceasing. We'll see the pivot of whatever it is. So our job is to be fully ourselves, and then we realize

[58:02]

our pivotal nature, which is the activity of Buddha. Buddha is our nature. And our nature is that, like Buddha, our nature is that we're nothing in and of ourself. Because we are a pivot between ourself and not ourself. Between a self and not a self. Yeah, what we really are is a pivot between ourself and not-ourself. But a good share of the day we see other people who we think are not ourself, fine, and we see ourself, which is not a self, but we see ourself, and we have some training to do to be fully the self. And by being fully our self, we realize it's not the self, in other words, we realize the pivotal nature of our being, what we really are.

[59:07]

But we have this heart and this big job of being our self, of learning our self, of studying our self, of being still with our self, of doing these virtuous practices with our self. And also remembering that we cannot really fully do these practices without doing it with other people in conversation. I can't practice generosity except in conversation. I can't practice diligence except in conversation. I can't practice ethics except in conversation, not fully. And in fact, whenever I do do those practices, it really is in conversation and I need to wake up to that. And when I wake up to it, that goes with me realizing, oh, now it's wholehearted. And then you can say, you think so? And I can go, thank you. I'll come back to something you were saying, answering the question when you were talking about how seeing someone as a good student, a good person, doing certain good deeds, being ethical, but then you realize you're completely wrong.

[60:33]

I think Lewis, in grappling with that, is supposed to actually say, well, I'm not seeing all of you as a whole anymore. I'm just seeing this aspect of you as part of you. But what do you mean when you say you're completely wrong? He said that a few times. Yeah, completely wrong is similar to completely other. So whatever I think of you, it's perfectly fine to think whatever I think of you. I can think whatever I feel okay about. Well, maybe not everything. But anyway, any kind thoughts I have about you I think are just fine. I feel fine about it. But you are actually completely other than what I think you are, which is similar to I am completely wrong. If I think that what I thought about you is you, even though, you know, what I thought about you is pretty nice. What I think about you is just my thinking. It's not you. It's not the opposite, right? Opposite wouldn't be enough.

[61:34]

If I think you're virtuous, it's not like you're not virtuous. It's that you're entirely other than what I think of you. It doesn't mean you're entirely other than virtuous. It's you're entirely other than what I think you are. So a negative way to put it is I'm completely wrong in whatever I think about people. I'm okay with saying it that way. I'd rather say people are completely other than what I think they are. And not, you know, and the opposite is one of the minor points in their otherness. It could be opposite, you know, 20% opposite, 30%... And you need to converse about this. We need to talk about this. Talk. There's no fixed position in this discussion. It's ongoing, ongoing.

[62:38]

There's no end to this discussion. Again, if the discussion stops, the being fully yourself stops. Or the process of realizing yourself through ethics stops when the conversation stops. One second, yes. When Suzuki Roshi said to you, you're not going to be egotistical about this, or you're not going to be... Arrogant. Arrogant, sorry. You won't be arrogant. Yeah. If that was me hearing that, I would say, oh my gosh, he thinks I'm arrogant. Just like Barry this morning said to me, you're generous, but it's because you want people to love you. Like, he didn't say it in a bad way or an abrupt way. But it was like... Another one of these... I'm not a nice person. Oh, you thought that? So I would say the same thing. And that's what he said to you. He said... What you thought is what he said to you.

[63:42]

Yeah. So how do you unwind that? How do you unwind it? Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is you have a conversation. Actually, the second thing that came to mind was you have a conversation with me about it. That's how you wind it. You don't unwind it all by yourself. You unwind it by asking me about it. That's how we start talking about it. The first thing that came to mind was you study it. You look at, oh, Am I doing kind things to get people to like me? I check it out. I study it. But I don't study it by myself. I talk about it. And so many people come to see me and they confess right off the bat, I'm coming here to get your approval. They're saying, I'm coming to get my own approval. Well, they could also say that, which is not so common. A person coming to sit down, I've come here to get my own approval.

[64:46]

And I would probably say, well, good luck. I'm not in charge of that, but I would really support you approving yourself. Go right ahead. I myself, if you want my approval, it's a little bit more complicated because I don't want to get into that game. But I definitely want to get into the game of you being honest with me. And if you're trying to get my approval, I would really appreciate it if you would tell me that. That's a big help. So when they tell me that, I say, good. Wanting approval is fine. No problem. It's normal. It's like wanting water. It's natural. We get thirsty for approval. But trying to get the water is a problem. And trying to get approval is a problem. But people don't come in very often and say to me, I just want to confess I've come here to get some water. Now, I do sometimes serve water, but almost no one's ever said that to me.

[65:53]

I've come here to get water. But they often come to get approval. But some people might come and say, you know, I did not come to get approval today, but I want to tell you that last week I was coming to get approval. But today I'm not. And I feel it's kind of nice. I'm just coming to tell you that I'm not trying to get your approval today. I just came to meet you today. And I didn't even try to get a meeting. Well, you know, now this is okay. We can be free for a few seconds. It's all right. But it's also okay to want approval and just be with somebody and just want it and desire it and not try to get it. Because what we want is reality. And we're not ever going to finish wanting it. We're going to keep wanting it. And wanting it makes us want it more, which is good.

[66:54]

Our desire to realize the truth grows the more we feel it. It's not like to get it. And if you want approval, that's okay. The desire for approval, let's use it. We can make this thing stronger and stronger. But to try to get the truth, it derails the whole wonderful process. So people say, it's a confession, I'm trying to get approval. Slightly different from, I want your approval. And then if they say, I want your approval, I say, I hear you. And we're not going to get into whether I'm going to give it to you or not, right? We're just going to keep wanting it. And I want yours too, by the way. But I'm not trying to get it by telling you that you've got mine. Because, you know, if people come and say, I'm coming to get approval, and I say, you've got it, they're going to approve of me generally. Except for really smart ones that say, bad Zen priest.

[67:57]

You shouldn't get into that. Well, I can't help it, I approve of you, but so I don't really tell people. You know, when they ask. It distracts them. But, you know, when I write letters, I write with deep appreciation. I'm going to change to deep approval. Laughter Laughter Laughter With deep approval and disrespect. That would be a jest. I'm so proud and not accessory to bank robbing churches to do that. Oh, no. Okay, so now it's time to sing a song. All right? I approve. And I wasn't trying to get your approval, but thank you so much for your approval.

[68:58]

So one of the songs goes like this. May our intention equally extend to every being and place with a true merit of the Lord's way.

[69:20]

@Transcribed_v005
@Text_v005
@Score_85.86