I gave a little overview of the history of the precepts mostly in China and Japan, a little bit in India. But again, one of the main things that I brought up was that in China there was, and there still is, the transmission of the Vinya precepts. for humans. And the Vinaya precepts are sometimes presented in important presentations of them. It's called the four-part Vinaya. I believe it's the Dharmagupta sect. And another set of precepts that are transmitted are the Bodhisattva precepts. In China,

[01:01]

Almost all Buddhists were Mahayana Buddhists, but they thought of themselves as Mahayana Buddhists, but many of the monks and nuns received the so-called steps for individual practice, the Vinaya. So they thought of themselves as Mahayana, but they they got ordained by receiving first the novice vinaya, then the full vinaya, then the bodhisattva precepts. They still do that in China. That's the way the ordinations go. And the vinaya, of course, for monks, nuns, and lay people are different. Bodhisattva precepts, however, are not different for monks and nuns. The interpretation might be different, though, in some cases, so that there wouldn't be a contradiction between the bodhisattva precepts and the individual practices of the Vinaya.

[02:13]

Again, the priorities of the two kinds of precepts are that the The Vinaya precepts are particularly for the detailed guidance of the conduct, our own behavior, the individual behavior. Of course, there are also regulations and teachings in the Vinaya about how the group should function. But the bodhisattva precepts are more like general guidelines for compassionate interpersonal relationships. And our sixteen bodhisattva precepts are a condensed version of very general principles of compassionate interpersonal relationship.

[03:26]

So an example that could be given is the first precept for the personal conduct is to control sexual desire, whereas the first precept for bodhisattva precepts is not to kill life. And in some cases, there's either a difference in priority or actually a direct conflict between the... So another important thing that happened in China is that in the Zen school in particular, they came up with these what are called pure rules, qing gui. And one way to see these practices were an attempt... to transcend any contradictions between these two kinds of precepts. So, one step further is to become a monk you would receive these two kinds of ordinations, the Vinaya ordination and the Bodhisattva ordination, and then you'd enter a monastery and there would be regular... which would also help harmonize any contradiction between the two types of precepts that you received.

[04:51]

And I think that the actual... the actual... the Jing Wei probably were more practically what the monks were looking at a lot of the time than the other two kinds of precepts. Just like here, we spent a lot of time looking at the actual monastic regulations. like how much water to pour into the servers into the spirit offering container, which I think somebody called the wastewater container, which linguistically implies that this is wastewater rather than a divine offering. So, you know, we play with these words, like also, you know, we... Anyway, we're very concerned with this kind of stuff. And hopefully the way we work with these is both compassionate and also brings our attention to our own personal activity and harmonizes these two.

[06:06]

And I was looking again at that character Ren, which for benevolence or humanity... And so I looked at the two horizontal lines, which mean two, but looking at one line as like self and the other line as other. And then the radical on the left is person. So this is the way a person can be not caught by self or other. Or the way the person moves between the extremes of self and other. Or the extremes of it is and it isn't. Also these precepts can be looked at that way in a sense too. So it isn't that we don't have a person, it's just that we want this Buddha person. This Buddha person doesn't go to the extremes of self or other.

[07:14]

but they're both there. Self and other are there. Those two lines are part of the picture, but the person is not harmed by these extremes of self and other. So in relationship to the precepts, there's like the self, maybe the top line is like self, and the precepts like the Vinaya are the precepts of self. And the bottom line is other, or the precepts which are concerned about your relationship to others. So again, the way to somehow harmonize the bodhisattva precepts and the individual vehicle precepts has to do with finding true humanity. So true humanity isn't just, well, be nice to people. It's also, you know, look at what you're doing. That's a review, I think. So, in Zen, then, I think the emphasis is not on the individual vehicle, and it's not on the bodhisattva vehicle.

[08:28]

Bhai John said, in Zen, we should, our way of behaving should not be the individual vehicle, the Vinaya precepts, and it shouldn't contradict the Bodhisattva precepts, but also shouldn't be limited by the individual vehicle precepts or the Bodhisattva vehicle precepts. In other words, it is not restricted by these precepts which Buddha uses to help people. All these precepts are virtue practices offered by Buddha, but then once we offer them, we do not we take good care of them we do not violate them and we're not limited by them so that care these things without being limited by them just like to take care of beings without being limited by them to take care of the practices of virtue without clinging to them and having them backfire so the practice is not individual so

[09:41]

It's more like the emphasis is on communal in Zen. And then when we were talking about precepts before, I listed five that William Botterford brought up about one of Dogen's, his Rinzai grandfather, Eisai, And then I was, so that's on tape. And then I didn't finish Dogen's response to those things, I don't think. So, he argued that the essential teaching of Zen lay in the observance of precepts. And he meant both the Vinaya and the Bodhisattva precepts. And Dogen's response is, which he says to Eijo, I believe in that, that the essential teaching of Zen is sitting meditation, zazen.

[10:51]

It is mistaken to assert that the essential teaching of Zen could be found only in the observance of precepts. That is overly literal interpretation of the precepts. And then Asai asserted that all Buddhism depends on precepts. Precepts depend on precepts. Buddhism depends on precepts. Meditation depends on precepts. Wisdom depends on precepts. Precepts first. And Dogen said, all three aspects, precepts, meditation, and wisdom, are found within, at the same time, what we call the zazen of the Buddha ancestors. And he says, in zazen, what precepts are not observed?

[11:54]

What virtue is lacking? So again, And if any precepts are not being observed, it's not zazen. But most people's idea of precepts, literal idea of precepts, is not sitting meditation. So sitting meditation helps you not have a rigid idea of what precepts are. And precepts help you... And again, Asai said... He wanted to reform Japanese Buddhism, in particular the Tendai school, and he wanted to use the four-part Vinaya, the four-part practices of individual conduct, to do so. But he also wanted them to practice the Bodhisattva precepts.

[12:55]

Dogen, and this is a big thing for Soto Zen in Japan and now in America, Dogen rejected the authority of the four-part Vinaya. He asserted that the way to enlightenment of the Buddha ancestors could never resemble this individual vehicle practice of the individual vehicle precepts. defined by these four-part Vinaya, for example, that the enlightenment of the Buddhas never requires individual vehicle practice and individual vehicle precepts in the form of the Vinaya, the four-part Vinaya. I think he knew that the Buddha practices, but he's saying the actual enlightenment of the Buddha is not like these practices, even though the enlightened one gave these practices.

[14:10]

But even in Theravada texts, the Buddha said, this is me talking now, not Dogen, even in Theravada texts, the Buddha said, I gave them for you, not for me. And the monk said, what? You're not going to follow these? He says, no. No, I mean, I'm not going to violate them, but they're not for me, they're for you. I don't need them. I hope they help you. They're not for me. I'm already Arhat and I'm also a Buddha. I don't need them. It's like somebody, it's like a king, excuse the expression, who has a game park. And there's rules for how people can use it. But the king doesn't follow the rules in his own game park. He doesn't go in his game park. He doesn't need his game park. So, you know, you people are like, I don't know what, you people are like into various stuff like sex and things like that, so you need rules.

[15:14]

I'm not even necessarily into it, I mean, you know, but if I was, I wouldn't need rules to figure out how to behave. But you do, so here, have some rules. But when you're Buddha, it's nothing to do with this. However, you might then give these rules yourself to people because you might want your Dharma to go on for a while. But as I mentioned before, Shakyamuni Buddha apparently said in the Vinaya that there were other Buddhas before him, and the first three before him were enlightening people left and right, but they didn't use the Vinaya to do it. They didn't practice the Vinaya themselves, and they didn't give people the Vinaya. They just went up to them and enlightened them. They looked in their head and said, oh, this person has this. And that was the end of that. But those teachers' lineage didn't go on so well, so Vinaya is very practical and helpful in a lot of ways, partly so that bodhisattvas and arhats can talk about them and have something to talk about besides sex.

[16:16]

So anyway, Dogen rejected the authority of this four-part Vinaya. He said that enlightenment of the Buddha doesn't look like that Vinaya. And he criticized those who asserted that Zen monks must uncritically follow the individual vehicle precepts and the bodhisattva precepts. In both kinds of precepts, he criticized people and said, you should just follow them. In other words, I think he encouraged being critical of all the teachings you receive. In other words, question them, study them, analyze them in a respectful way. something the other day about there's this great Tibetan teacher named Tsangkapa and in a school that's founded on his teachings and it's actually okay to disagree with Tsangkapa in that school but there's a certain way of so it doesn't look like you're really disagreeing with him so you actually there is freedom you know you can actually

[17:47]

Question the situation so it doesn't get too dogmatic. But there's a procedure for doing it, like, you know, I respectfully disagree with you. But not, probably even more indirect than that. So, listen to the Buddha, but then, you know, ask some questions, if you want. Yeah? Yeah? Would I say the precepts are expedient means? Yes, I would. I would definitely say that. And Buddha is not bound by expedient means, but Buddha gives expedient means and receives expedient means, so we also should give and receive expedient means without grasping them. And that's the way to use them. But we do need expedient means. That's compassion. So, again, as I said before, it's like Buddhism is emptiness and expedient means.

[18:53]

So if you join the emptiness to the expedient means, join the emptiness to the precepts, then you don't grasp them. And then fourth... Asai said that, you know, Asai rejected the saying that's in some Mahayana sutras that observing individual vehicle precepts violates the Bodhisattva precepts. He rejected that. Dogen agrees with that. And it's not so much that the literal individual vehicle precepts violates the Bodhisattva precept, but the perspective of practicing from a certain who violates the perspective of the bodhisattva precepts. Dogen endorses that. And he talks about it in what is it called? Sho-Aku Makusa and Sanju Shichi Bodai Bumpo of the Shobo.

[19:59]

And the last point to compare Asai and Dogen is Asai identified Zen with strict observance of precepts, whereas Dogen regarded the monastic regulations as the point to emphasize. The regulations of how we live together, the things we do together, the way we practice together, those are the the main point for Dogen. So that's, I just wanted to put that there so it's, because it was kind of left hanging. Did somebody have some comments? Yes? Yeah, almost like, well it's almost like, or like, Vinaya is talking about how you control yourself.

[21:03]

Doga is talking about relationship. And the bodhisattva precepts are, to some extent, talking about the other. Not so much other people's problems, like, you know, other people's conduct, which you're trying to control. But what's your relationship to others? It's almost like bodhisattva is concerning your relationship to others and welfare for others. And... The individual vehicle ones are concerned about your relationship with yourself. But Dogen's emphasis is on cutting through even that distinction and finding the way of practice which is your actual relationship, which is not about others or about self. But the actual relationship where self and others are not two different things. So the bodhisattva vehicle is actually trying to get the middle. And of course the individual vehicle is too. They're both trying to get us to the middle where the self and other are there but not separate.

[22:12]

Okay? Yes? A last piece, yes? I don't know if there's ever going to be a last piece, but there's another piece probably. well it might well be the case that that in a haji at the time that Dogen was there and for a long time afterwards that

[23:19]

I don't know what the best way to say this is, but anyway, they had these monastic regulations which they were practicing, which Dogen set up, which are very similar to the monastic regulations of Song Dynasty China. There was very little, what we call, genital sexual activity going on in the monastery between men and men, or men and women, And that there maybe were no women living in the monastery. So there was no woman-woman sexuality going on either. So that may be going on there. But I actually don't even know if there is a monastic regulation in the pure rules about no sexual relationships. But again, in China, the people in the monasteries had received the Vinaya precepts which said don't have any sexual relations. and the Bodhisattva precepts which say don't have any inappropriate sexual relationships.

[24:26]

And then I didn't know if they had to add to the list for the monastics anything about sex. So it's very likely that nothing much like that was going on. It's very possible. Okay? Although it might not have been going on, for all I know, Dogen was not bound by any kind of rule himself. He didn't himself, as far as I know, necessarily think of himself as practicing the Vinaya precepts which says no sex. Okay? I think he probably did think of practicing the Bodhisattva precept called no misuse of sexuality or no sexual greed. That would probably be his vow. Okay? But what that led to, I don't know, maybe Dogen... Some people said Dogen did have a girlfriend. Some people even say that Kazan's really Dogen's son. Who, you know, it's possible. Buddhas have mothers and fathers, and Buddhas can be mothers and fathers.

[25:34]

Now, Buddhas are usually so busy they don't have time, but, you know, it could happen. because the Buddha is not restricted by these things. But in fact, it looks like there weren't lots of kids running around Eheiji. And I think at a certain point in history, the Japanese government made a law which said that monks are not supposed to have sexual relationships, and if they do, it's against the law for them to have sexual relationships. Japanese government said it's against the law. You people are not supposed to have sexual relationships. And also the government's saying you should not have sexual relationships because you should follow the rules of your sect. If your group says no sex, then you shouldn't have sex. And if you do have sex, the government will bust you. Did you know that? Yeah, so does Zen. Not the Bodhisattva group.

[26:37]

The understanding the government had of Soto Zen priests is that they weren't having sex. And the government said that it was against the law for them to have sex. And sometimes the government just said, well, let's be tough on Buddhism. Let's check out Buddhism here for a while. And they'd go out, they were having sex, and they'd bust them. So you weren't supposed to be having sex, it seems like was the actual case, if you're a priest in Soto Zen. Now, there's other schools, like what is it, Jodo Shinshu, where the rules of that school say the government didn't bust them. So they could be married and have children. And what happened, actually, this There's two different ways to look at it, but one way to look at it is what happened in the latter part of the 19th century.

[27:41]

In other words, the 19th century, the Japanese government said it's no longer against the law for priests to get married. Some people said the government said you're But I think literally it's that the government said it's no longer against the law for you to get married. And the leaders of Soto Zen said, please, government, don't do this because we don't want our priests to get married. And if you tell them that they can, some of them will, and that will undermine our situation. But in fact, some did get married. Lots did get married. And more and more it became that that was the way to do it. So that now in Soto Zen and Rinzai Zen, most priests are married, but not all. And there's some sense, I think, in both in Japan, that the priests who aren't married have a little higher status than the ones who are.

[28:46]

And some of them that are feel like they're violating even the Bodhisattva precept about sexuality. But in our Bodhisattvas, if you look at the Chinese characters for that character, the one about sex, it has three characters. It says, no sexual greed. It doesn't say no sex. But many commentators, some commentators say that what that means is just no sex. It doesn't mean no sexual greed. It means no sex. But it literally says, no sexual greed. So this is something which we're debating and discussing in the elders' council at Zen Center. What does that precept mean, that bodhisattva precept? Does it mean no sex? Or does it mean no inappropriate or greedy, acquisitive sex? And then I'm discussing with certain people about, is it possible to have sex without there being any attachment?

[29:54]

And I've made some examples for these. That might be the case. How there could be sex without any greed involved. I didn't think you'd want to talk about this topic this morning, but apparently you do. Funny, huh? What I gave was, imagine some young man who basically... Some young men find older ladies quite attractive. A lot of really old men find old ladies attractive. That's one of the interesting things about growing old, is as you get older, you start seeing these ladies who you used to think were really old and ugly, they start looking cute. It's funny. Can you imagine looking at a 70-year-old lady and saying, she's kind of cute? All kind of withered and sad.

[31:00]

There's something cute about this tattered coat. Anyway, some young men, it's genetic programming to some extent and also cultural conditioning, but some young men, when they look at old ladies who are all wrinkled and sick and have lots of sores on their body and their teeth falling out and they have bad breath, They look at them and they kind of say, well, no thanks, you know, about that stuff. So, anyway, it's possible that a young man, a bodhisattva, a young man, who finds whose body has some, you know, not any particular interest in sexual involvement with certain old ladies, is told by a doctor that this lady needs some sexual activity in order to cure a disease. that her energy is blocked in certain ways, and if she had sex, and not just sex with anybody, not some old codger, but she needs to have sex with a young man who's got a lot of energy.

[32:10]

And this young man might, and the sex can be this type or that type or that type, there are various varieties, but this young man can be involved, get sexually involved, do the service, without forming any attachment to her or without any salivation going on, with no greed, with no attachment, just totally giving his body in the service of this potential therapy. And if in the middle of the therapy people say, we don't need your help anymore, he can stop and say, okay. And he doesn't linger over it and think about it later. It is possible. In other words, if Buddha can do this, that there can be sexual activity with no attachment, no greed, it's possible. This is being proposed by me as possible. Yes?

[33:22]

I think the Buddha would probably disagree. I mean, would you read the opinion of the first story of the first Buddha? Yeah. Someone's mother asks her son, will you, you know, sit with your ex-wife, so I'm on top school. Yes. So, what's the problem? You know, he does that. But then the Buddha solves it. How can you, how can you indulge in passion when what I teach is passion? Right, well, I'm saying, it's possible to go through that without it being passionate. Without it... No. Did he become involved in passion? In the process, the Buddhist seems to think he did. The Buddha can see what the guy was up to. The Buddha can see, you know, you didn't just do that as a service. You kind of like... You kind of indulged in it while you were doing it, didn't you? And he says... That's the problem. If you can go into the candy store, if the bodhisattva can go into the candy store without indulging in the process, it's fine.

[34:31]

Bodhisattva has to look for herself and also have Buddha check too to see if they went in there to, you know, to stimulate and try to, with an attempt to control their experience to go certain ways. I'm not going to buy anything or eat any of this stuff, but just going in there, I'm going in there to stimulate my senses. Well, this is not, this is, nobody asked you to do that. I mean, the store owner did, but nobody asked you to do that. Buddha's not asking you to go and, you know, stimulate yourself. But the Buddha might ask you, go in there and do this job and that's it. So the question is, is Buddha asking you to do this? So check before you go. Or a Buddhist substitute. So if you think somebody's asking you to perform a service like that, do you have a Buddhist substitute to talk to? Go say, okay, I'm being asked to do this.

[35:34]

Should I do it? The Buddhist substitute may say, no, it's too advanced for you. Forget it. You can't do that. I can even tell now you're like, you're like, you know, drooling at the possibility of performing this great service and being, you know, such a great bodhisattva. Forget it. You're already, even before you start doing this, you're already demonstrating your inability to go in this realm. So stay away from there. You've got enough problems where you are right now. You don't have to move. So then you don't go do that because you talk with your teacher. That's the thing about practicing communally. You don't decide unilaterally that you're ready to do something which seems to violate the precepts. So if he had checked with the Buddha and the Buddha said, no, don't go, then how could he have realized that he was probably doing something over his head? So again, the Buddha said, you people need these rules, but I don't. In other words, it is possible. But to say this is possible is exactly the same as saying freedom is possible.

[36:38]

If Buddhism can't allow us to have sex without attachment, then basically enlightenment is not possible. Enlightenment means that you can have any kind of relationship with people and it can be beneficial. If not, this is a limited enlightenment. If you think something is being asked of you, and you know that it goes against certain rules and you think you can do it without falling I shouldn't say it potentially could endanger you to fall into certain traps but you think you're being asked to do it I think you should check with your teacher to see if your teacher thinks you're up to it and know and then what are you going to do? and probably not do it does that make sense? What's advanced? Yeah, that's why you should not be checking to see if somebody thinks you're up to it.

[37:43]

And probably somebody would think you're not. So then you don't have to do it in advance. It's a mistake to do a practice you're not ready to do. So then don't do it. Uh-huh. But, I mean, I don't know if it's better if I should wait until I'm fully like, okay, I want to give this away, or if I should give it away and see if I can, you know. I think it's good before you give something away, you sort of do a... Giving is primarily, is primarily mental. So first of all, you think about, I would like to give this, and you really feel happy about giving it. Like, really feel happy. If you really feel like, yeah, I really feel like I can give this, and I really feel okay about giving this.

[38:45]

I don't think I'm going to regret it at all. Then I think, then try it. And then maybe you find out, yeah, I was right. I feel fine. And sometimes you feel like, when you give it, oops. And the next time you might be more careful, look a little bit more. into that area and see, is there any clinging in that place I discovered last time when I actually gave it? So before you give, try to check to see if you really feel good about it or whether there's some kind of craving or clinging in the giving, like they'll really think I'm special if I do this. That may be obscure you from seeing the part where you actually get something. So giving, if you're trying to get something, I would say work more on yourself until you're not trying to get anything from giving. Now, if somebody in a very sudden situation needs you to give something and you don't have time to check out whether there's any clinging and their life depends on it, then I guess you take a chance and maybe you give it and it helps them, but you yourself regret it and get in trouble because you regret it.

[39:53]

That's too bad. that probably you should, if they really need it. But a lot of things you give to people, they don't really need. Like the world does not need it. As far as I know. But it might be very good if you gave it away. If you really, really, really feel good about giving it away. But some other situations that people really might need, somebody's health, somebody's life might be in danger, then maybe you should take it away. Take care of it and then check whether you feel good about it. So, okay. I don't know who was next. I see, you know, several hands now, but was there some people ahead of the... I see Rin and Tova's hand. Were there some people that had their hand before, like Rosie and anybody else? Who was first, Anka or Rosie? Rosie? Rosie? No, more like any relationship could be beneficial.

[41:12]

There's possible to find a beneficial way to relate to all beings. It's possible to be passionate without there being attachment. Attachment isn't the only form of... Attachment is not the only kind of passion. It's just like the most common. Most people know about attachment. But Buddha has passionate concern for people's welfare. But it's not, you know, it's not clinging. So, yes, Buddha has passion. Buddha really desires, really wants people to be illuminated by Buddha's wisdom, really, and ready to do anything that would help that. What is sexual passion? Thank you. What is it?

[42:12]

What do you mean by sexual passion? What is it? What are you talking about? What do you mean? What are you talking about? Tell me about it. Is it kind of energy? Yes. And what is it? What kind of energy? What is it? Does it want to do something? A wide open, tender, joyful... A wide open, tender, joyful energy? That doesn't sound like a problem. It doesn't... Huh? Yeah, it sounds like bodhicitta. And it doesn't... To me, it doesn't... That doesn't, to me, contradict sexual... What you just said. And you can call it passionate, but I don't see any... I don't see any, like, acquisitiveness there or any kind of controlling there. So that sounds fine. And that's... Perhaps that's going on right now in this very room.

[43:17]

Yeah. And I don't see any problem with it. So if you want to call that sexual passion, the way we're all open and affectionate and loving with each other and consider each other very dear, if that's the way sexuality is manifesting and it's very a passionate appreciation of each other, if that's the way you're talking about sexuality manifesting, good. So what about when it also includes touch? I don't see any problem with that. But is that touch motivated by any seeking? And if there's seeking involved, even if you're seeking to avoid touching somebody, or you're seeking to touch somebody, then I think you've got a problem. So if there's touching without seeking or grasping, I say...

[44:19]

If there's touching, which is all things come forward and realize themselves as touching, there's no grasping or seeking. All things come forth and realize themselves as touching, as an expression of really appreciating something and wanting to care for their life, I don't see a problem. Why is it special to serve with sexuality? Why? I didn't understand. I couldn't hear exactly what you said. Passion. Yes. Yes. The sexuality consists in part of what? Our passion. Sexuality can't have passion. And so what do you mean by passion?

[45:26]

as touching as an expression of really appreciating somebody and wanting to care for their life, I don't see a problem. I didn't understand. I couldn't hear exactly what you said. Do I find what? Passion. Yes? Yes? Sexuality consists in part of what? Patience or passion? Sexuality can't have passion. And so what do you mean by passion? I didn't I didn't accept her question I protest the question I didn't accept your question

[46:51]

Yes. I asked her what passion was, and I'm saying some passion is harmful. Do you understand? Some passion is harmful. So if passion is harmful, then it's not Buddha's passion. And if it's beneficial, it's Buddha's passion. And it's always present. Nobody's alive without sexual energy. We're born in it and we live in it our whole life. It's in the room right now, all over the place, there's sexual energy. But this energy can manifest in a way which disturbs or it can manifest in such a way that it's beneficial. So sexual energy, I would say, can be manifested in a beneficial way and it will have the qualities when it's beneficial, I think, of there being no seeking and grasping. And actually it is operating that way in a no-seeking, no-grasping way which is sustaining our life right now.

[48:06]

So the question is how do we meditate in such a way as to enter into the beneficent healing possibility of this sexual energy? That's the question. This is our great art to find that. And that's what we call Zazen. In some sense Zazen is to find how sexual energy can be beneficent. And if we don't find that, zazen is really quite boring. Because, you know, sexist keeps knocking on the door saying, come on, let's do something interesting. Ankhaya? Your impression is that some energy is being suppressed.

[49:35]

Yeah, I see that quite a bit myself, that people are going around suppressing their energy. I see that. I see it too. And people are taught from a fairly early age to suppress their sexual energy. It isn't just in monasteries. Little girls are taught, don't go sit on that man. They're taught it's dangerous. They're taught that. So they grow up thinking they have to control their sexual energy, otherwise they'll get in trouble. And little boys are also taught to control it. So we are taught from an early age, many people are, about controlling sexual energy. So we have sexual energy, which then starts to get connected to our seeking and grasping, and then we're taught to try to control the seeking and grasping around the energy, plus even the pure energy. which is not seeking and grasping anything. Sometimes sexual energy manifests without any seeking or grasping, and we start behaving in response to that, and people tell us to stop that.

[50:42]

Yeah, I'm recommending understanding it. That's what I'm up for. Understanding sexuality. In other words, understand our energy. Understand our breath. Understand it. If you understand it, rules are not necessary. If you actually see how it works, you see that it can't be grasped, can't be controlled, and it's just life. And then understanding it and going with it. Like, what do they say? Riding, you know, the dolphin of blood and mire. It's wonderful, but this is our great challenge. This is the great art of somehow engaging with this energy in a way that doesn't suppress it and doesn't disturb it and doesn't break it in part and doesn't try to use it and doesn't try to control it. All these things. This is our meditation practice, to work with the energy in a skillful way.

[51:59]

That's what we're groping for. What is a skillful way to deal with life's energy? It's quite this great challenge. But this suppressing and controlling and fighting sexual energy and other kinds of energy, we came here with habits around that. So now we've got the habits, now it's time to understand the habits, and then understand even the thing that the habit is trying to control. Understand the habits which are stiff ways of relating to the energy, and then if we understand them, maybe we can understand how we influence and obscure the energy by our habits, then we can like maybe relax with those habits and then actually see the energy and understand it. And once we understand it, we understand the proper way to take care of it. And then great, you know, it's wonderful.

[53:03]

And next was, I don't know, we were in? Right. Right. Or approval. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. Right.

[54:06]

Right. Like the, like you know, the strange thing about, the strange thing about sexual abuse for, of young people is that the part of the abuse, in some sense the worst part of the abuse is that the person thinks that they have to use sex to get people's love. You know, they love this person, and this person then comes and uses them sexually, and then they think that that kind of activity is the only way that they're going to get love. So they use it as the main way that they get love. What they want is love, and they mix sex in there, so they never can see sex as something other than a tool. And it's very hard to let go of that one, because people want love, right? So how can we help a person like that? Well, the way you do is you love them, and you gradually see that it's not because of their sexual energy being used in such and such a way that you love them. They may try to use their sexual energy as a way... Your love actually is coming to them, or love is coming to them, and they want to make it that they have control over the love that is coming, because maybe it'll stop.

[55:22]

so then they want to bring sex into it because then maybe then I'll make sure that'll keep coming so if there's some way to like show them that it isn't the sex that makes it come but that's a very tricky business so but it's hard for them to stop that habit and like just let the love come with no sense of like I can do sex to get it so when a person has a habit like that it's it's really A tremendous challenge for them and anybody who wants to work with them to help them understand. Go at that as a manipulation, as a tool. Etc. But in some sense that's the fundamental. And somehow it's so poignant because it's not just about being beat up or something. It's about... And that's all some people know.

[56:26]

Right. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. I don't know. Is she next? Or Tova? Okay. Okay. Tova, Jamie, and Alyssa? Yes? It looks like it happened that way, yeah. I don't know how that happened. A bunch of people pointed at you. Oh, you raised two hands. Oh, okay. Basically, it's energy and sex is a very important element in life energy.

[57:53]

Yeah. What's it supposed to mean? Well, let's see. What's it supposed to mean? Well, I have a lot to say about this, but I feel like it'll just blow up into this big story. I just feel like I hesitate to get into it at this point, it's such a big story. But I think there is some appropriateness sometimes to talk about sexual energy as a sub-variety of life energy or the big energy which manifests everything. So there's a big energy and there's little energies and there's some usefulness, I think, to look at the varieties. And stuff like that, I think, maybe is just kind of out of scale for this morning.

[59:06]

But I'm willing to, for the time being, just say, well, forget about sexual energy then, and let's just talk about energy. I think one of the reasons is because so much murder is committed in a relationship to sex. If murder is committed in a relationship to sex, then I would say then food. Look at animals, you know, they fight over sex more than they do over food. Within a species. So species, people kill each other around sex a lot. So it tends to be potentially very dangerous. Like two people, you know, they're standing next to each other, they're friends and so on, and they get along pretty well, and then they start to get sexually involved, and then they start really fighting each other.

[60:12]

And before that, for years they get along fine, and they get involved sexually, and then they fight each other. It seems to happen. And then they break up, and they're not sexually involved anymore, and they have a more reasonable relationship. There's something about sex that unleashes, sexual activity anyway, unleashes a kind of energy which people are very kind of like clueless about. And without the sexual activity, they've developed ways of keeping it down, which is not good. But then if it's released without guidance, it can like be devastating because it's like totally, it's unconscious most of the time. So, you know, it's like, are you ready for this? Well, you know, do you have support to do this? You know, weddings and families and stuff like that to help people deal with this, because otherwise, this is like a very powerful thing, you know. It's like, it's the most important thing. It's more important than eating, because if you can reproduce, it doesn't matter if you starve to death.

[61:17]

So food and sex is a key issue in the manifestation of a human being. So we just, generally speaking, we should just be in awe of this thing and just keep our hands in gassho all the time. Oh, great sex. You're so powerful. I'm your humble servant. Yes, Jamie. Tova. Oh, Jamie. Tova. Jamie. Tova. Oh, Tova. Oh, Jamie. When you're talking about checking with the teacher before entering into something that seems to be outside Yes.

[62:25]

Yes. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. That's right, you're not. That's why there should be a lot of checking in with teachers. And it isn't exactly that the teacher can tell you what you should do or what you shouldn't do, but hopefully the teacher will help you look carefully at what's going on rather than looking at what you can do.

[63:37]

For example, the teacher might help you in supporting you, but you are not equipped to decide what to do. And the more you're aware of that, the more perhaps the proper response can come forward because I cannot decide by myself what is appropriate. I know that a little bit, but then sometimes I say, well, but I got to do something, so I'm just going to decide anyway. So it's possible to like on how I can't really figure out the best thing by myself and then go to somebody else and have them reinforce and support. And when you go to talk to them, you're reinforcing that. You're saying, I'm not going to make this decision myself. I want to do it together with somebody else. Two of us even can do it, but the two of us can orient towards the space where we feel responsible but not in control. And then we let the action come forth, not like I'm not in control so I'm not responsible, but like let the action come forth as much as possible.

[64:41]

This is an experiment which we're allowing to happen and we're responsible for the consequences, whatever they are. And this seems like a good way to proceed to me. It does leave out a lot of wonderful things like me deciding what to do and me having the power myself and all the thrill. but I'm recommending that we let go of the power of me deciding what to do and me being in control of my life. I think that's really harmful. But even when you start to feel that that's harmful, you still sometimes need reinforcement from somebody else to say, yes, that is harmful. Let's let go of that approach and let's discuss together what we need. And maybe our relationship can come up with a really good response to the situation. What? What? Oh, there's a dog snoring. Yes. Yes.

[65:49]

In early teaching of Buddha, Buddha taught, avoid evil, practice good, purify your mind. Then another skillful device manifested, avoid evil, practice good, benefit beings. In Mahayana Buddhism, another version of, a related version of these, you could say that's related to that teaching, but it also could be seen as independently arising, was I'll throw a little Sanskrit at you. It's called samvara-shila. Shila, precept. Samvara, discipline. Pratimoksha means that which is conducive to liberation. And what is conducive to liberation, if you look at that, is practices of ceremonies and regulations for monks and nuns and lay people. Okay? And that's translated into Soto Zen and also Chinese Zen and Japanese Zen as the precept of embracing and sustaining, which is discipline.

[67:12]

What? Prakimoksha, which is translated as regulations and ceremonies. So in our actual... Soto Zen texts that we receive, it says, this character is ceremony, regulations, embrace and sustain, which is another word for discipline, precept. But some Zen centers... Instead of using that thing, which is actually what is transmitted, they converted it to avoid evil. But to me, it's very interesting that this particular way of putting it is, you could say, well, it is to avoid evil, but it's not just put as avoid, it's put as practices you can do, which in fact, when you do those practices, unless you grasp those practices. But that's part of why we practice these with a teacher and with a community, is that if we do these regulations of ceremony in a grasping way, then hopefully other practitioners can come and say, you seem a little tense around this regulation.

[68:19]

And you can say, well, no, I'm not. Get out of my face. And they can say, gee, I'm sorry, I was wrong. You are really relaxed about this. And then you can say, you know, blah-de-blah, blah-de-blah, blah-de-blah, and you can really get into it, and then you can maybe wake up to the... practicing these precepts maybe i am a little attached maybe i'm doing evil right around these practices of not doing evil but anyway uh in our actual yeah so evil is huge so that's why we have these little practices we this little theme park where we play with all these little things you know And then we find out, as we're doing these practices, we find the evil. What's the evil? The evil is the grasping and the seeking. That's the evil. And that's based on misconception. The seeking is the affliction which causes the karma which perpetuates our misery.

[69:26]

And all this is based on misconception that there is something out there to grasp. So, first of all, we receive the precepts and then we start to notice how we're grasping and seeking. They help us notice that. Then we try to, like, relax in these grasping and seeking tendencies and gradually we start to realize our misconceptions and then we start to realize our misperceptions and then we understand and then we're fine. It takes some work, though, as you may have noticed. Yes. Yes. I was talking... together, and then Jamie was over, there's a little triad there. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I'd waste my time recommending it, no.

[70:45]

Because it seems to be going on already. It doesn't need my encouragement. What I'm recommending is to anybody who is bumbling and seeking or whatever they're doing, I think I recommend, I'd like to put emphasis on renunciation. because then they can be free to enter into the practice of virtue without, like, this grasping and seeking stuff. And they can also start to notice, like I just said a minute ago, if in the practice of these... or giving or meditation, whatever, they can notice, maybe, if there's any... how they understand, you know. So as they practice the virtues... in this renunciate state, they can uncover their basic misconceptions. And then when the misconceptions are released, then we have wisdom connected with the virtue, with the compassion.

[71:48]

But I'm just sort of trying to recognize, let's clear the decks first as much as possible so we can... our hands are free to study. I think so. Yes? Right. Right. As a matter of fact, again, what I'm saying is that when I let go of control, it lets me widen my responsibility. That when I'm into control, then I say, then I'm sort of more feeling responsible around what I think I'm controlling. And so, the funny thing is that trying to control limits my sense of responsibility. So I'm recommending... Yeah, that's true.

[72:54]

Because if you're responsible for good things, then I should praise you for them. Being good in this universe You're responsible for it, and I praise you for it. And everything bad in this universe, you're responsible. But I'm not going to blame you. I'm just going to point out to you, you're responsible. It's not just me that's responsible for all the bad stuff around here. You are too. share my responsibility for the problems we have here, but also you share responsibility for all the good things here. So I praise you for how you're sharing in all the good. I don't blame you for the bad because I don't want to distract myself from my responsibility. And you, for your responsibility for the good things here, I don't necessarily lose sight of my responsibility. I just see yours first, so I praise you first rather than me praise me and then have you be second. That's a precept.

[73:55]

Praising myself at the expense of you means I praise myself first. You're responsible for everything good at Tatsuhara. Mark's responsible. Jamie's responsible. Soren's responsible. You're all responsible for everything good here and you're all responsible for everything bad here. I say, and you know, If I was Buddha, I could actually see how that's so, but I'm saying that as a meditation instruction. Please try to understand. It's not like clean. It's not like some bad is going on there and you're not involved. You are involved in everything. Open up to that. And again, when you're in control, then you feel more like, well, what I'm in control of, I'm more responsible for what I'm not in control of. So I'm in control of like, this part of Tassajara, so I'm really, like, responsible here, but I'm not in control of Yugoslavia, so I'm not responsible there." Well, I say, no. That's tightening your mind too much. And it's even interfering with the way you're responsible here.

[74:56]

So let go of your sense that you're in control. Open up your sensibility. Exactly. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yeah, write that down on a piece of paper and put it in front of you. It's hard. Say it again. It's hard to write. That's like being a parent of a teenager. And it's hard. It's hard. You have this person, you're not in control of them, and you're responsible for them. Totally responsible. and you're not in control of them. Now, if you could get control of a teenager, then it wouldn't be so hard. And you'd be happy to respond, I'm responsible and I got them under control, it's great. But that's not reality. Reality is you're not in control of them and you're responsible. Another way to put it is, it's hard to be devoted to something you can't control.

[75:57]

Or it's hard to be devoted to what you can't control. But I recommend, be devoted to what you can't control. And if you think there's anything you can control, be devoted to that too. But then get over this control thing. Make your first act of devotion to give up your sense of control. But I'm not... If I'm devoted to you people, I'm devoted to... You're not under my control. No. Everybody else is too. Definitely. But it's hard. It's hard to be responsible for what you can't control. It's hard to be devoted to what you can't control. That's what I'm recommending. That's definitely what I'm recommending. I totally believe in that, except that I also don't believe in it because it's just... I resist it, you know. And there's a tendency to be more, you know, willing to be responsible for what I feel...

[76:58]

But actually even then I had trouble with that too because if you really think you're in control you feel really terrible if something bad goes wrong then. So actually you feel too terrible. You disable yourself as a helper if you feel too terrible about it. You should just feel a little bit terrible and feel that way all the time. which is a constant... That's what compassion is. It's a little bit... Feeling a little bit terrible all the time. In other words, you're a happy bodhisattva who feels a little terrible. Remember, karuna means... Karuna, the word karuna means that your happiness has a... It's always getting dented by people's suffering. It isn't like... It hurts, but it's a happiness that hurts. It's... It should be happy to be devoted to beings, happy to be responsible for them. But it also hurts because, you know, all the suffering. So I'm... Sashin.

[78:04]

Oh, yeah, Sashin. Well, I... I... Let's see. I... I would like to ask you to please do kin in... the engawa, during sashi. That means like during that week, try to... Yes? Oh yeah, right. When you leave the zendo, after a period of meditation, to go to the bathroom, when you come back to the zendo, if you ever come back, please come back and do kin-hin on the angawa rather than doing other activities in the garden in other areas. So I've noticed that sometimes during kin-hin, people are standing in the garden communing with the flowers, which is a lovely thing to do.

[79:08]

And I would recommend that you do it all day tomorrow. So to get it out of your system. And then during seishin, give it up. you know, and just do old yucky kinhin on the angawa. Now, it's okay when you come around the corner to peek at the flowers. Oh, look at that quince bush. Anyway, but actually, try to give up, you know, the one tasahara during kinhin, during sesshin. Try to, like, come back and be on the angawa after you use the toilet. Or, of course, it's okay to do it in the Zendo, too. Please do that. This is just a regular, I guess, policy here already, but it's happening. Another thing I'd like to say is that my experience in the last session was that giving the Dharma talks in the morning, that for various reasons I know people need to leave the Zendo,

[80:17]

before and after the Dharma talk. And a lot of people need to leave, apparently, before and after, so that almost everybody leaves before and after. So that seems to be, I don't know, maybe that seems to be necessary. Therefore, I'm going to not give talks for a while, so that we can just like sit through this two times in the morning, this mass exodus from the Zendo area. So when I feel like we're settled and that we can tolerate this tremendous flow of people all over Tassajara before and after the event... Pardon? The Doans asked you to leave. Yeah, right.

[81:18]

It's the dawns. But now they won't ask you to leave because they just let you stay. All morning. Won't you go on? Yeah, you can mention one thing. Was that clear? And so anyway. Yep. I think it ends on March 31st.

[82:30]

I believe that's the proposed ending date of this lovely session. The lovely spring session. Just a second. I feel like I should call on Jane because she has not yet been called on today. And she seems to have her hand up, and now she has her mouth open, now it's shut. Now she's smiling. Yes? Yes? Right. So... Right, so if in fact we have a situation here such that given the, you know, what do you call it, the way we've decided to live together, of, you know, going to the toilet when we need to go and stuff like that,

[83:39]

What that entails is almost everyone leaving the Zen door before and after the lecture, which it does seem like it, then I'd like to not have lectures for a while so that we can spend some mornings where not everybody's leaving the Zen door twice between breakfast and lunch. If we don't have the lecture, probably some people will leave during this one, and some people will leave during that one, and some people will leave that one, but it'll be the key. And then those people probably will come back and do walking meditation in Gawa. So there'll be a feeling, I would guess, what will happen is there'll be a feeling they're meditating together through the morning because we won't have the lecture, which seems to, the event seems to cause a dispersion of the people all over the place. for good reasons, I'm not criticizing the reason, I'm just saying, but I think if we took the lecture out of there, that things would be better.

[84:41]

That's my guess. And I'd like to have a few days like that to get really settled. And once we're settled, I feel fine about people running all over the place. I still ask you not to, but if you do, I think you'll be fine because you're basically enlightened, you know? So no problem. But first, let's give up the lecture. Let's renounce the lecture. Let's renounce, like, mass exoduses and stuff like that. Let's just, like, sit for a couple of days. And then when we're all enlightened, we can have some talks. But if anybody has a lecture, we have to wait until they get over that. If anybody's furrowing their brow about this turn of events, well, let's just relax around that for a while, and then we'll all be fine, and then who knows? I mean, I'm happy to talk, but I don't want to cause a big problem here.

[85:42]

by having this lecture, which seems like it causes a disturbance. That's my experience. I didn't even notice it for a long time. And one time I was over in the cabin there and I looked up and I saw all these, before lecture, I saw all these people coming out of the Zendo. I didn't know what was going on. I thought it was like an earthquake. And then I went up and gave the talk and then I came down after the talk And I looked up again and I saw the same thing happening again. I thought, wow. And I said to somebody, what's going on? And they said, this is what usually happens. Really? And one time I, I don't know, somebody else was giving a talk or something. So after the talk, I didn't leave the Zendo like I usually do when I give the talk. I stayed in the Zendo and then I saw what happened after the talk. And I saw how everybody left and I saw kind of why. It's because the Dorns are saying, get out of here! I said, oh, I see why they're all leaving, because that's what's... So I thought, is there some way to get around this?

[86:48]

And I tried various things, but anyway, I just thought I'd try this for a while. Okay? I mean, I know it's not okay, but please accept this story. We've had plenty of excitement this practice period, haven't we? Have enough interesting things happened? Is it all right to have a few quiet days before it's all over? Total unobstructed communing with vast emptiness and deep silence. People all over the world are depending on you to face silence, supporting you to contemplate silence.

[87:53]

Happy that you're doing that. It's a great service that you're offering to the world. Thank you.

[88:12]

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