I'd like to continue talking about this vow that we just chanted. And in particular, I'd like to start with may all Buddhas and ancestors who have attained the Buddha way be compassionate to us. And that seems to be For me, that's easy to understand, that I would like compassionate beings to be compassionate to us. That seems kind of straightforward to you? Do you want compassionate people to be compassionate? Be compassionate to us. You have a question?

[01:01]

Yes? Just the idea that it says Buddha attained. I'm thinking that would there be a Buddha who had not attained? Pardon? Would there be a Buddha who had not attained? There would be no Buddha who has not attained, no. It's just the word. It matches me a little when it says that all that there is who have attained, I mean... Probably wouldn't be anything to happen. That makes sense to me. I take that in. And also, I personally would like people who also have not attained the Buddha way to be compassionate to us. Why not? So I don't have a problem with that. The next part, though, is a little tricky, which is, and free us from karmic effects.

[02:03]

So that might sound like something that I don't think is what's meant in the Buddha way. We don't mean that those who have realized it, are going to free us from karmic effects. And yet, in our relationship with those who have realized freedom from karmic effects, in our relationship with them, we are freed from karmic effects. So the Buddha activity is that Buddhas have vowed throughout their long career, to engage with people in a way that frees beings from karmic effects. But they don't do all the work. It's the relationship that does the work.

[03:08]

And what came to mind in relationship to that comment is, I think at the beginning of one of the great scholastic works in Buddhism called the Abhidharma Kosha, it says that the Buddhas do not reach down into the mud of suffering and pull people out. They don't do that. They can't do that, I guess. So what they do is they teach the Dharma to the people. But still, even though they teach the Dharma, the people have to listen and enter into the conversation in order to be free of the karmic effects which people are mired in. So the image is not the Buddhas reaching down and pulling people out.

[04:14]

They don't see them saving by that way. They more like enter the mud with them and have conversations in the mud. And those conversations in the mud free beings from the mud. so that they can also enter the mud and have conversations and free beings. So I do wish that all beings, even greatly enlightened beings, will enter the mud with us, be compassionate with us, and that we'll be able to receive that compassion and return it and receive it and return it and receive it and give it.

[05:15]

And in that process, I believe we will become free of karmic effects. Just a second, please. I'll do it with you. And then when we're free of karmic effects, we'll be allowing us to practice the way without hindrance. In other words, when you're in the mud and you're interacting with it fully, there's no hindrance. You're totally engaging with all the hindrances. They're not hindrances. Your job is to engage with them. But we need somebody to show us how to engage with the muds. And they show us. And some people can show us. And some people have shown us. And then we... beings are showing it to us, but we have noticed that some people have entered the mud of our life and been compassionate to us.

[06:23]

And when we notice, we say, Yeah, this is like, I want to do this. This is like, this is the way I want to go. Does someone have a question? One class you were talking about how everything... I'm trying to remember that every action has karma, but some lead to more karma, and some lead to... Do you remember karma? Do you remember that? Something like that. Is that what this is? Like, you engage with beings in the mud? Well, the enlightened beings are not really doing karma. So some beings who are in the mud with us, we're still maybe involved in karma. And some other people who are in the mud with us are also involved with karma.

[07:29]

And they can help us, they can be compassionate to us. Also they can even make big mistakes which somehow are helpful to us because we see, oh, that's not the way to go. But it's nice to have some people who are free of karmic effects who are in mud with us, and they aren't doing karma. There's also some of the people who are not free of karmic effects are doing wholesome karma. Wholesome karma, one of the consequences of wholesome karma, one of the best consequences of wholesome karma is, for example, to be relaxed and open and flexible and calm and be able to be playful with the mud. So by practicing wholesome karma, in other words, we can realize the virtues of concentration in the mud.

[08:39]

And then we can play in the mud. And if we can play in the mud, we can see the mud in new ways. and become free of our old ways by seeing new ways, and then even be free of the new ways. And in this way, doing wholesome karma lets us participate in the mud in such a way that we become free of the mud. But the freedom from the mud is not karma. But positive karma, wholesome karma, One of the consequences of karma, karma has consequences, one of the consequences is to make us again relaxed and open and be willing, actually be willing to let go of the karma. And also be willing to not try to get rid of it, or be mean to it. Of course, not to hold on to it. So good karma, wholesome karma, lets us be willing to let go of karma, to allow it to drop away, and to try new approaches to the consequences of it.

[09:50]

But actually that work, when the freedom work, is not karma. Because we're also free of the idea that I'm doing this and I'm doing that. That's part of it. Freedom. So when you're actually free of karma, you don't do karma anymore. And, of course, there's grace of freedom. But some people, some beings have evolved to a point where they're not thinking in those terms at all anymore, where they don't even have consciousness. But they have a mind, which is a wisdom mind, and they're interacting with people who still have this karmic consciousness. And they vow all along to help beings who have karmic consciousness become free of karmic consciousness. And sometimes they teach people how to work with karmic consciousness in a way to become free of karmic consciousness.

[10:57]

But the one who's teaching is not using karmic consciousness to teach the karmic consciousnesses how to be free of karmic consciousness. It's a wisdom mind which is teaching people how to deal with karmic consciousness in a way to become free of karmic consciousness. So is that what you're thinking, Sonia? Yeah, I... I did say that. You did say that. I was thinking, is that more karmic? It doesn't say it doesn't have it. It says it doesn't fall into it. So the question in that story Shalini is referring to, does a highly cultivated person fall into karmic consciousness? And the monk said, no. So then he, you know, the consequence of that was falling into a lot of karmic consciousness for a long time.

[12:02]

But then after some point he met a teacher and said, please turn that question in a way. And so the question was, does a highly cultivated person fall into karmic consciousness or not? And the monk says, does not. But the right answer is not, does fall into karmic consciousness. Most people don't think that highly cultivated people are falling into karmic consciousness. And they don't. But do they not fall into karmic consciousness? No, they don't not fall into karmic consciousness. What they do is what I said. They enter it intentionally and play in it and teach people how to play in it to become free of it. And they also show people how to work with language in that process. What's not fallen into is not not fallen into, but it is fallen into, and it isn't not fallen into, and so on.

[13:04]

That's the second paragraph of this. Again, I want everybody to help everybody become free of karmic effects so that we can practice the way without... free of karmic effects. But I don't think Dogen wants somebody else to come in and do the work which nobody else can do. Nobody else can do our Nobody else can... People can teach us how to play, but nobody else can do our play. We have a unique contribution. The world wants us to make our contribution. That's part of what the universe is. That's part of what it's about, is that everybody wants you to make your contribution, and everybody wants to help you make your contribution, but they're not making you... They can't do your contribution.

[14:15]

But they can encourage you. And I don't know, but Dogen and some of his successors want that for all of us. In other words, they want Buddha activity. Yes? It feels like a basic question, but I feel a little lost. Sometimes I feel like I understand karma. Say again? Sometimes I feel like I understand karma, the meaning of the word karma and how it's used. And sometimes I don't. And I feel like right now I don't. But in the most basic sense, with my understanding is it means service. No, the basic sense of karma, the meaning of karma, is action.

[15:21]

That's what the word means, action. And in particular, it's a type of action which is occurring in consciousness. So it doesn't refer to action that's not in the realm of where there's a person, a self there. So there's unconscious activity going on, both physical and cognitive, all the time for us living beings. and the body and the unconscious cognitive processes are going on, but the body's activity at that level with the unconscious cognitive processes is not what's meant by karma. Karma is what occurs on the special mind, which we call consciousness, So consciousness, like in the five aggregates, that consciousness that's being spoken of there is karmic consciousness.

[16:24]

Karmic consciousness is somebody there who thinks that she's blinking her eyes, or tilting her head, or saying hello, or practicing Zen. That's the realm of karma. And the actions that go on there are the karmic actions. Yes, go ahead. So, when you say to be free from karmic effect, that the enlightened people would be freed from that action, because I go to a place like, well, there's a lot of action happening between, I would imagine, between an enlightened being and all the beings that interact with that enlightened being. Yes. Wow. but if we're talking about a different sense of action, like beyond this idea of maybe more of an egoic kind. It's the egoic kind, yeah.

[17:29]

The awakened people are so free, they don't even have the equipment for egoic consciousness. They're just wisdom. And that wisdom plunges into the realm of egoic consciousness and plays with it in such a way as to promote freedom from the egoic consciousness. And the wisdom can interact with the egoic consciousness at the level of giving instruction to the egoic consciousness, which will be understood egoically. and be applied egoically, but which will plant the seeds for letting go of the egoic consciousness and working with it in such a way that without getting rid of it, there will be liberation.

[18:30]

Now, again, the translation says, free of karmic effects, which is a more profound liberation than just free of karmic consciousness. So there's both freedom of karmic consciousness And then there's freedom from karmic effects. The karmic effects are actually the unconscious process, which is not karmic consciousness. It's an unconscious type of mind. And that karmic effect is the basis for the karma. So the process will not only free the karmic consciousness over and over, but by freeing the karmic consciousness, the foundation of the karmic consciousness, which is the effects of consciousness, that will also be transformed, and that will be transformed into a karmic consciousness maintenance system, to a karmic consciousness liberation process.

[19:40]

So our unconscious process is producing our consciousness And by the consciousness being involved in certain practices, the consequence of those karmic practices transforms the basis of the karmic consciousness so that the karmic consciousness becomes freer and freer. And as it becomes freer and freer, it transforms its basis, which then promotes freer and freer. And gradually, finally, the basis is, you could say, pacified or What's the word they use? Dissipated. The consequences are dissipated, and then there's no basis for consciousness anymore. And that's like the karmic effects, which are the basis for karma, are gone, and so there's no karmic effects and no consciousness. But don't worry, there's wisdom.

[20:43]

Don't worry, there's wisdom. And the wisdom that's here, this type of wisdom, is totally connected to this vow, which is to plunge into the realm of karmic consciousness and interact with it joyfully, and show people how to interact with it in such a way that these consciousnesses become free and also free of their basis. So the way I'm interpreting that comment here is that there's sort of this like seed that's planted and a cycle that happens that eventually kind of transforms the experience of this like conscious karmic consciousness into the cycle itself a little bit?

[21:48]

Yeah, something like that. And thinking that I understand karma, or thinking that I don't understand karma, are basically both kind of conscious thoughts. I do understand or I don't understand. And both of those can be practiced in a way that will free me of my thoughts about whether I understand, don't understand, or I don't know which I do. So you can specialize in not understanding karma, or understanding karma, but in both cases those are opportunities to practice in such a way as to free the whole situation. And that's what this vow is about. And also understanding that it's good to invite people to come and have conversations with us about this. Because I cannot figure out how to become free all by myself.

[22:53]

And of course I can't help other people become free all by myself. So both self and other have to work together. And I joined the vow here to do that. And to invite everybody to join that. Which in reality, I'm basically inviting people to join reality. In reality, we are in this process. And I vow that we enter the process that we're already in, which is the process of becoming free of karmic effects and practicing the way without hindrance. That's what we're doing, and I hope we do what we're doing, since we're doing it. Yes? I feel really frustrated. I feel like I don't know whether anybody here is really making any headway with this conversation.

[23:59]

I'm sorry if that sounds angry. Well, is it angry? I'm frustrated. I'm really frustrated. Yeah, are you angry also? Anger is a response to frustration sometimes. Yeah, and I'm sorry I'm angry. Oh, you're angry too. Yeah, okay, well, welcome, angry lady. But if this conversation is supposed to be... I don't know. If it's supposed to be... I think whatever you think it's supposed to be, it's not. But you can finish your sentence if you want to. Well, to hear that we can either not understand it or think we understand it or think we don't understand it, why talk about it? What is the purpose then of language that just circles around?

[25:07]

I'm happy to say it again. The purpose of what I'm saying is to free all beings so that they live in peace. That's the purpose of what I'm saying. The purpose of what I'm saying is to free you from what you think. And if you think, I'm frustrated, I'm talking to help you come free of the thought, I'm frustrated. If you think, I understand, I want to free you from the thought, I understand. If you think, I don't understand, I want to free you from that thought too. Because most people are stuck in their thoughts. They're trapped in your thoughts. Even the people who think, I understand Buddhism perfectly well, and I have a feeling some people don't. But maybe leave that part out. I'm just so happy that I finally understood Buddhism perfectly well. The purpose of what I'm talking, the words I'm offering, are to free people who think like that.

[26:10]

And the people who think, I don't understand Buddhism very well, or my understanding is below average, I'm talking to those people too, from whatever they're thinking. And freedom is not understood by a person. A person does not understand freedom from chronic effects. I'm sorry, I have to leave. I understand. What frees people from karmic effects is the conversation. Yes? So, to me, for me it might feel like a little more grounding to kind of think about the sentence instead of, may all Buddhas and ancestors who have attained the Buddha Way be compassionate to us, like thinking more in terms of, In a moment when I'm in conversation and it's Buddha activity, in a moment of my conversation with someone who may have dropped a sense of self or may be fully present with me, may be thinking or not thinking duly, I guess, may I find the compassion there and free me from the karmic effect in that moment, right?

[27:34]

This makes it sound like it kind of, I need to meet the most enlightened person of all time, and only then is there any benefit. But this is something that's happening moment by moment. I said to you earlier that people who are not free of karmic effects can also be compassionate to us. And that can be helpful. However, it might be good for some people to have actually... Part of Wright's view in early Buddhism is there are sages. Some people have actually become free. And so people who aren't free This vow is to interact with them. And they can be compassionate too, I'm just saying. They can be compassionate. They can help us. They can help us be free. You can be hung up on something and somebody who is not free of karmic effects can come up to you and say, how are you feeling today?

[28:37]

And you can look at yourself and see and become free in the moment. But in the next moment, you get stuck again. So it's nice to have some people around who can tell you about a way of understanding that doesn't just go back and forth between being stuck and being free, but that stays in the process of liberation. So I'm just saying, this person here who wrote this thing, he's actually not just inviting ordinary people to come and be compassionate, but he's inviting those who have completed the program, the education program. He wants them to join the process too. They're not the only ones who can help. But there was something you said I also wanted to address, which was Yeah. Anyway, some people are free of karmic effects, but then they still maybe hesitate to plunge into karmic realm again to help people.

[29:47]

So there's levels of freedom. Some people are free of their own karma, their own consciousness, but they're not yet ready to go into some other people's problems. So some people can help me with some of my problems and other people can help me with other problems. It's nice to have somebody who's free of my problems and therefore is able to help me. They're free of their problems and they're also able to help me with all my problems. So those are the more developed people. the people who've realized that we're all in this process together. But some people are somewhat free and be able to help us, but they don't understand how we're all in the process in each of our ways. So that's the reason for bringing up somebody who has finished the work and is now able to interact with everybody.

[30:56]

Which means... yeah, we'll stop there. So do you still have a question about that? No, I guess I still want to understand it on a couple of different levels, because it just sounds extremely idealistic on a certain level. And that level by itself sounds to me like sort of... I don't know if I would say less helpful, but maybe... When you say idealistic, what do you mean by idealistic? Well, to meet someone that is completely free for all time, of all karmic effects, and has no karmic effects whatsoever. Not just creating karma at that moment, but... To meet someone who doesn't have consciousness. Yeah. Yeah. So what's the problem with that? I don't know how much many of us spend much of our day in those situations.

[31:58]

Almost nobody does. So that's in which sense I guess I'm saying that it feels idealistic? Or theoretical? Maybe, yeah. Yeah. But then there's this other level which I think you sort of affirmed that a similar or maybe the same process is happening on a moment-by-moment level as well? We say similar, but anyway, the process that some people have realized is going on with everybody all the time. So the Buddha has said, now I see that all beings fully possess the wisdom and virtues of the Buddhas. However, because they're attached to their views and misconceptions, they don't see it. But the Buddha actually sees that everybody's in this process and also sees that even though they're in the process, they don't see it because of various karmic effects.

[33:09]

So this vow is addressing the possibility of becoming free and the way of becoming free is to hear the Dharma and so on. That's the first paragraph. Then it's mentioning that there's kind of a hindrance to realizing this, hearing the Dharma and maintaining the Buddha way. So, we need some people, in addition to everybody who is in the process, But I also want to recognize we need some people who really understand, who have heard this Dharma, and who are free. I want to address that that's part of the deal. And that's the bodhisattva vow, is to become one of those people. And the reason to become that is because they are necessary to help people realize their actual situation. So the Buddha has seen that we are fully possessing the wisdom and virtues, the wisdom and activities of Buddha.

[34:16]

We possess them, but we don't get them. Somebody needs to teach that. Bodhisattvas are people who think, I want to learn how this is true and realize it so I can teach people what's going on in their lives, which is already going on, but they don't get it. I would like to become one of these beings who becomes really so free that I can help people realize who they are. And not just realize feeling better, but realize that they possess the wisdom and virtues of the Buddhas But before the Buddha is a Buddha, as it says in the paragraph here next, they're just like us. However, we still vow to become a Buddha, even though Buddhas used to be like us. You're not just vowing to become somewhat free and be somewhat in accord with reality, but to line up with it completely.

[35:25]

And somehow, in a conversation with a Buddha, this bodhisattva vow realizes, I actually want to have authentic understanding, complete, perfect, unsurpassable understanding. But people aspire to that. And someone could say that sounds theoretical or idealistic, but the person might say, that's still what I want to do. I want to become a Buddha. I want to become top-of-the-line helper. And between now and that time I'm going to be not top of the line helpful. I'm going to be sort of helpful here, sort of helpful there, really helpful here, not helpful there. So that's part of this thing. The Jataka tales of Buddha are talking about these various things the Buddha did, like jumping into the fire to be cooked for Buddha's dinner, or for a sage's dinner, or to give the body to free starving tigers, and stuff like that.

[36:37]

These kinds of acts are things that are done by people who are not yet fully realized or have not fully realized what we're doing, which lead to us fully realizing what we're doing. But it doesn't mean we can't be helpful many, many, many times along the way and wake up many, many times along the way. And again, people have been saying to me lately, and not just lately, but lately some people are saying to me, I hear you talking and I don't understand what you're saying. And I say, well, what I'm saying, what I'm talking about, I'm talking about something which is not understood by a person.

[37:40]

The ultimate truth is not understood by a person. It's not even understood by a Buddha. Only Buddhas understand it, but even Buddhas understand it in conversation. So conversation understands the ultimate truth. And the conversation includes everybody. And this vow is inviting everybody, but it's mentioning that the fully realized people, we don't want to leave them out. In fact, we're mentioning them. But there's a we in there, too. And the we means we. It means all of us. Yes?

[38:41]

So you said that this was something that he essentially wrote for himself as kind of vow, and he was having doubt? No, I think he might have written this after his vow was resolved. I'm not sure when he wrote this, but I think he wrote this after his vow was resolved. But he did go through a period of having a great doubt, about Buddhadharma. You know, there's various ways to put it. But anyway, he did have big doubt. And when he met his teacher, in the conversation with his teacher in China, his vow was... I mean, his doubt was... in a sense, liberated. And he had great faith. At the end of his life he said, there's many things I don't understand about Buddhadharma, but I have the joy of right faith.

[39:42]

So I think he wrote this as an expression of right faith, not so much doubt. But right faith doesn't mean you get rid of doubt. And freedom from doubt doesn't really mean much to me. It says, no doubt. So doubt's part of the mud that the Bodhisattva plays in. It demonstrates fearlessness of mud. It shows other people that they can be playful and joyful even though there's muddy doubt all around. And I think I also mentioned that some Zen teachers encourage the monks and nuns to develop doubt as an opportunity to enter the mud and liberate beings.

[40:56]

Yes. Maybe you can help free me from some of my karma. I am feeling a little bit for the person who left. Yes. And one of the thoughts I'm having is that some of this language, which is very high and lofty, can have the effect of being very inspiring for people. It gives people something to aspire to. And sometimes it's very discouraging for people because they don't recognize a reference point for what you're talking about in their life. And then feel unseen and unmet by this teaching that they're being told will free them. So I'm wondering, what do we do about that? Well, we could practice compassion with the person feeling unseen and unmet. I don't know.

[42:11]

I don't know what it would look like to be generous towards somebody who felt unseen. I don't know what that looks like. But we could try to practice generosity towards them telling us that they feel unseen. We could listen to them. say that they feel unseen. We could listen to them and look at them. If they say they feel unmet, that would be the generosity response of compassion. But I don't know what that would look like, but that's talking about it. So that's what I tried to do with her, tried to meet her. and let her be, not talk her out of what she was saying, but she had to leave. And I let her go. And if she comes back, I'll let her come back. And, I mean, I vow to let her come back. And I vow to let her go. I vow to be generous towards her feeling frustrated and angry.

[43:19]

And then I would move on from there to practice the other dimensions of compassion. Like I would try to be careful and gentle with her. But I don't know what careful and gentle looks like, but I would try to do those practices. I would try to, you know, not disparage her or put myself above her or try to control her or talk her out of her frustration or whatever. And then I would move on to practice patience with the pain of her anger and frustration. and her leaving and her coming and her leaving and her coming. And then I would move on to practice enthusiasm and concentration. That's what one could do with someone who's feeling angry, frustrated, unmet, unseen, unheard. Which of course

[44:23]

We see that a lot, right? But we see that whether we chant this or not. And if people are feeling uplifted by this, we do the same practice with them, so they don't get stuck in being uplifted. As I listen to you, I realize I have a somewhat more specific question. Okay. Earlier I heard you say that these Buddhas, they don't even have the equipment for egoic consciousness. You're right. They don't have egoic consciousness because the basis of it has been transformed into wisdom. That's part of the evolution of their practice, is that what supports the karmic consciousness is converted into wisdom. So there's no karmic consciousness anymore. There is awareness, and it's a wisdom awareness.

[45:29]

But this awareness is linked to the vow to work with beings so they don't float off into just pure radiance. They bring the radiance into the mud of all the karmic consciousnesses. such a being be someone who I would perceive as a being who would be helpful? A human being could have realized such a mind, like Shakyamuni Buddha. You could see the person's body, but you couldn't see that person's wisdom, and they can't even, the wisdom can't see the person, it's invisible. It's just a mind that's in perfect alignment with reality. You can't see such a mind. But that mind could be... For example, Shakyamuni Buddha had a mind like that.

[46:35]

And that mind can... The light of that mind can enter my consciousness and your consciousness and it can talk to you and speak English and Sanskrit, well, not Sanskrit, but whatever Buddhist, it can speak whatever language the person speaks, but it uses the other person's consciousness for the language. This could appear as an ordinary being. It could look like an ordinary being, yeah. And historical Buddha sometimes looked like an ordinary being, although he, generally speaking, he did not wear, after he was playing the role of the teacher, he did not dress in princely clothes anymore. And he also didn't walk around naked. During a certain phase of his life, he wore princess clothes, and then later he walked around nude, and dirty, and then he started wearing clothes and washing and stuff.

[47:36]

So he might look like a kind of a poor man who in India would be recognized as a yogi, as a person who is on the path of liberation. That's how some Buddha looked like that to some people. But the Buddha also could look, you know, gloriously. and he would do the glory thing when it was appropriate, and he would do the ordinary kind of monk thing when it was appropriate. He could do both. Like I often said, if you see Sukharoshi walking around San Francisco, you'd say, oh, it's a small Asian man with a shaved head and, you know, simple clothing. He might say, oh, I think it's a monk. You might know already. Maybe that's an Asian monk. But he looked kind of like an ordinary Asian monk, I think. But then you see him maybe at Zen Center with all these large economy-sized white people around him.

[48:38]

And then you think, oh, something's happening here. Maybe this is a great sage. So he looked kind of glorious. And You may think, oh, this is the great Zen master. But take those people away, just put them on the street, pretty ordinary. The state of his mind, however, I think is the same as an ordinary man on the street or as the great teacher, same mind. And the way he relates to the people on the street is the same as the way he relates to the Zen students who make him look so special. We see all these beings through our own karmic consciousness, so such a being might actually appear flawed. Say it again? Such a being might actually appear flawed to me. That's right. Yeah. And some people actually think that some great teachers are still flawed, that they're not really Buddhas yet.

[49:52]

I think Sri Sri Krishna probably would tell you that he was not yet a Buddha. Some days he would say, I'm not a Buddha, and everybody would go, ooh. And the other days, I am Buddha, and everybody would say, yay. But, you know, I think maybe Siddhartha had not yet attained what Shakyamuni Buddha attained. I'm not sure. But I think some people thought that Siddhartha was unflawed. I wasn't one of them. For me, you know, he was like the best I'd seen. But I didn't think, I didn't expect him to be unflawed and completely worked out. And then when he publicly said, I'm not enlightened, I kind of accepted that, that he was not kidding around. And I was a little disappointed. But I still thought, he's still really good. I'm happy to practice with him. I think he can train me, even though he's not enlightened.

[50:53]

And then the next week, as I often mention, the next week he said, I'm Buddha. And I kind of thought, I like that better. But I also, I didn't believe that, like, literally, he said, I'm totally worked out. But he is Buddha, but the way Suzuki Rishi is Buddha is the same way that we are. that really we are Buddha, but we don't fully get it. I don't think he fully got it either. I think he had a little bit more work to do. Sorry! There's a little bit of thing on it that says you shouldn't talk like that about Siddhartha. But to me it seemed like he was not saying I don't have any more work to do. I'm still flawed. I think he would admit that. I think that was what he was telling us. But I think he also was telling us that we have this great practice and I'm so happy that we can do this together. And we're going to become Buddhas. And...

[51:55]

But there is this possibility which we aspire to, but we have not yet attained. And also, what is the possibility? Buddhahood. So the bodhisattvas aspire to Buddhahood. And they generally speaking, they generally speaking do not think they have become Buddha yet. And the mature bodhisattva also know that they don't really know what a Buddha is, but they still aspire to it. So it's something they haven't attained that they aspire to, they don't really know what it is, and they go ahead and aspire to it. And they feel joyful to aspire to this thing. Because basically they're aspiring to be the most helpful possible form of being. That's what they're aspiring to. And, again, it's getting late, but this thing in here says, by revealing and disclosing our lack of faith and practice before the Buddhas.

[53:02]

So, Dogen, although he maybe didn't have much doubt anymore, he had great faith in revealing and disclosing the lack of his practice. And the Parish also said, was able to reveal the lack of his practice. So we are in the process of realizing the practice, and along the way of realizing the practice, revealing and disclosing our lack of faith in the practice. And the great ancestors did that practice of revealing their lack of practice. And the Buddha, Shakyamuni Buddha, also Revealed his lack of practice. He did. And by the process of revealing our lack of practice, the practice becomes more and more mature. And if we're in a hurry for the lack of practice to disappear, that's something to be kind to.

[54:12]

I wish my lack of practice would go away. Well, that's not exactly a lack of practice. To wish that you were a Buddha today and want to get rid of the person you are today isn't a lack of practice. That's just a human desire, kind of a mean one. But that's not the practice. That's not lack of practice. That's something to practice with. That's something to be kind to. That's not kindness. That's cruelty. They want to get rid of this person and get a better one. But we can practice with that person who wants to get a better person than this one. And also a better person than that one. But I'm not practice. You know, whatever I think I am is not practice. What I really am is a conversation, but the individual person is what's practiced with, practiced towards to liberate me from being stuck in being an individual, believing that I live by myself without the support of all beings.

[55:23]

And, yeah, and discouragement comes up no matter what we chant. By the way, the name, the ehe kosam means lofty. So, some people get discouraged by lofty and... Lofty? Yeah. So, some people get discouraged by the lofty. Some people get discouraged by the lowly. Some people are encouraged by the lofty. Some people, you know... all kinds of possibilities, no matter what the possibilities, the bodhisattva vows to embrace them, to engage with them. And sometimes they say, I don't want to embrace this situation. Well, that's a lack of practice, a lack of faith. And then we say, yeah, I lacked faith to practice with the situation. I'm sorry. And I welcome the great beings and People who are more ordinary like me, I reveal this to all beings, but I don't leave out the beings who really know how to listen.

[56:36]

I particularly mention that I'm going to do this not just in front of gangsters, but also in front of Buddhas. And maybe actually not do it in front of gangsters, because they might kill me. But I'll do it in front of the Buddhas because they won't kill me. They won't beat me up for being... lacking faith and practice. I'm sorry Buddha, I lack faith. I'm sorry Buddha, I didn't practice. The Buddhas will not punish us for that. They will encourage us to continue to reveal that. That's the kind of Buddha I like anyway. A Buddha who lets me go and lets me come. Thank you very much.

[58:04]

@Transcribed_v005
@Text_v005
@Score_87.27