If the student brings forth the self, however, this teacher does not go to sleep. If the student comes and doesn't bring forth the self, but thinks she is bringing forth the self, and the teacher goes to sleep, then the student would maybe guess the teacher either was very, very sleepy anyway and had nothing to do with you, or you must not have brought forth the self. You thought you did. Your premise was, if the student brings forth the self, How does a teacher reflect that? Well, I mean, first of all, if you assume you bring forth the self, you're not bringing forth the self. You're bringing forth the assumption that you're bringing forth the self. But anyway, if you want to go back to assuming that, then I would say the teacher will not go to sleep. The teacher will be awake when you bring forth your self, because it's very interesting to see a self being brought forth. Is it a method?

[01:04]

It's not really... Well, you can call it a method, but a method sounds like the teacher has the method. But it's not exactly a method that you... that tears come to your eyes when someone shows you something true. It's not exactly a method. It's a response. So the windmill doesn't exactly have a method. window is not holding a method but when the window responds to the wind in fact that tells the wind that the wind has some power no it's a reflection a reflection is a response yeah right but a reflection is also a response like the response of a mirror to an image is to reflect it it's a response And if you say something to someone, hmm? Because if the teacher cries, then they're not expecting, they're responding in their own way.

[02:11]

The teacher means that the student is responding in a different way. Oh. The student is giving back something else, and the teacher is responding in a different way. If the student cries, OK, maybe she knows she's crying, OK? She doesn't cry. All right? So then you might say, well, the teacher is not crying. It's not reflecting the student's crying, right? Literally, it's a response, right? But what the teacher may be not crying in response to, crying, but the student's actually showing something that seems real. So the teacher might smile when the student cries. So then the student knows that they're crying, but the reflection they're getting is not that the teacher's crying necessarily.

[03:15]

The reflection they're getting is the teacher saying, yeah, It's authentic what you just did. And they show, and they reflect it by smiling at a true gift. So, maybe the crying isn't literally reflected, but what the teacher is reflecting is, yeah, that was, you're real. So they're reflecting your honesty and your, yeah, your honesty, or your your genuine presentation, by smiling, by being awake. Sometimes a teacher might cry in response to the student's crying, and then I might say my reflection, but I think reflection and response are, not all responses are reflections, but I think some reflections are also a response. And the teachers can both reflect and respond.

[04:17]

And everybody actually responds to you all. And so the teacher, a teacher responds in such a way that maybe you learn more about yourself in that response than you do to some other responses. Because the teacher's response is particularly, we call it appropriate, but it's apropos, which means to the point. The teacher's response is apropos of you learning about yourself. Yes. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, again, I'm not saying me, okay?

[05:37]

But the ideal teacher, again, is like a window or a mirror. sense that if the student comes from the north, the teacher moves to the south. The teacher doesn't have an idea of what they're going to do. They're just ready, and they have no attachment, and they're not seeking anything. And so the way the student relates to them will show up in the teacher's response. But the teacher doesn't have an agenda. about what their response is going to be. If they do, then two students coming from different forms of expression will get this because they've already got an idea about what they should be.

[06:44]

A mirror also doesn't have an idea of what it's going to reflect. I see you, Greg. So I don't know if in this interaction you have just been going through, if I was exemplifying the window or not. Or I don't know if I was reflecting you or not. I don't know if you saw something about yourself or not. Yeah, good.

[07:57]

I saw that too. Yeah. But, you know, it's... Yeah, intensity and kind of a holding of it, and you're kind of like, you're bringing me this thing, and so that, and you kind of were taking care of it to sort of like make sure it would get across, and you did that, but you're kind of holding on to it longer maybe than you needed to. But you kind of were holding on to a little extra to make sure the boat would go the right way across the pond or something. Great. Right. So it worked out pretty well. A lot of people, what they do is they have a question. They tell me, you know, I have a question and then I answer it so I don't ask you about it. Question comes up and I think about it and I get maybe several good answers so I don't come and talk to you. So part of what people want to bring a question and see if they get the same answer as they came up with themselves.

[09:05]

And so a lot of times you'll ask the question and get a nice answer, but the teacher answers it from another direction. And then sometimes you notice, I don't want the question from that direction. I want you to answer from this direction. So that's sort of interesting. What do you mean? I mean, you get some information that you wouldn't have got by keeping it to yourself. You have questions and you can have really good answers on your own, which is fine. Maybe you have better answers than the teacher's answers. But the thing is, the teacher just to find out a low-quality answer that you couldn't have come up with on your own. And it's the teacher's answer. So you just think, well, maybe I shouldn't keep going to the teacher because the teacher's answers aren't as good as mine. But you might say, hmm, that's interesting. It's like I only want the best answers.

[10:07]

I don't want my life filled with these low-quality answers. I just want to stay on the best answer track, which just happens to be my answers. But another possibility is, What other people do is they think, oh, the teacher has the really good answers and my answers are no good. But the point is, so that's another dynamic that you get, or the therapist's answers are better than mine. So I go to the therapist to get better answers than I can come up with. So then you can see that about yourself, that your answers are garbage and the teacher's answers are good, or vice versa. But if you don't go to the teacher, you just stay in this narrow little track You don't go to the therapist or somebody. You just stay in your own little track. So the interaction opens you up. Plus, now that happened, but you get to see how you bring things and how you want a certain type of an answer, which is fine. You get to see that, too.

[11:09]

And that's another part of yourself. Part of the interaction is that you get to see, it maybe intensifies your awareness of how you control what happens. You're in a situation that's intense and you see how you're trying to keep the conversation in a certain controlled unfolding because in the intensity you become somewhat aware of the tremendous possibility of things going other than what you planned or you see the tremendous possibility of the non-existence of yourself

[12:17]

and in the face of that you can feel quite anxious and afraid and then you start to notice how you strengthen your sense of self right in the situation of meeting the person who you've come to have self with you and become free of it but actually in looking at it you start to see you're making it you're actually like making it again you actually can see yourself make the self again right in the spot to defend yourself from what's going on so you can see you can see it created right in front of you and you can see in a sense how funny that is how ironic that you've come to see through the self and actually you just and right when you're about to see through it you got terrified and just but this time you got to see it made and you got to see the reason it was made was because you were so scared so right in the verge of letting go of this something

[13:32]

you make another one. Not you make another one, but this fear and this anxiety becomes a condition for ignorance again and creation of this independent, this idea of an independent self again. But this time you can see it made, and when you see it made, you can understand it. But if it's already made, sometimes it's hard to understand what it is. It's like you walk in a room, it's already there. you kind of got to take care of it. So then you bring it into a situation where it's endangered, or you intentionally endanger it, and then you see it recreated. But in seeing the process of creation, you understand something that you don't understand when it's already created and you just, you know, it seems so solid. Craig, want to come up? Do you want to come up?

[14:38]

Yeah. Yeah. Please, bring your box. No, don't bring your box. Actually, what I was thinking about a response to Jackie's question. Can I say something to you? Yes. I just want you to remember that there's a lot of flowers right behind you. Just in case you stampede. And why don't you use that mic? Actually, I was thinking of a response to Jackie's question. Okay. Which is, you know, like, how may a teacher reflect what the student brings up. Actually, it's something that came up last Monday during and she is the one who brought it up and it was kind of a revelation to me that this whole question of coming forth and

[15:55]

Putting yourself out there and think during yourself, as you put it. How is that accomplished? You see, I had this notion way back from the 1960s when I hit people, which was in progress, that people... letting it all hang out. And I had the feeling that this isn't exactly what you had in mind, that people bring up all their emotional content and kind of put it out there. And that actually, that wasn't the point. The point was to be out there in a genuine way. Right, it's possible. It's possible to use catharsis as another kind of shield. Yeah. And this question of mind, you know, is the fact that last Monday mentioned that if you act in accordance with precepts,

[17:13]

And that's a true self-expression. And I never . So my notion that the answer to the question she brought up right now is that only when that happens is the picture then able to reflect what . But emotional content, then you can only either comment on it or do any of those other things that you mentioned. But it wouldn't be a reflection. The only way to give you a reflection is in true accordance which I suppose kind of implies a realization. You suppose it implies realization? Yeah, but it does. It implies realization.

[18:17]

So that's what I hope. Thank you for saying it. So those are some big, big concepts out there. One of, you know, bringing yourself forward, bringing the sense of your conscious subject forward and letting it be expressed in some way.

[19:19]

and then meeting that with this awareness basic awareness which just accepts it without any negotiation or arguing which means lovingly and then watching what kind of response there is and then also the other dimension that dred just brought up is that when this meeting is complete the bodhisattva precepts are also expressed there's no killing there's no stealing and killing and stealing are expressions they do appear in the world but they're not full expressions because full expressions get reflected, and full expressions show that really what's being expressed is not inherently existing.

[20:29]

So when we fully express this belief that we are existing independent of others, when it's fully expressed, we realize that it's an illusion. But if it's not fully expressed, we might not or probably won't understand that it's an illusion. Because people think of themselves all day long, but it's not complete, and they usually don't get it unless it's complete. Because also complete expression goes with this awareness which is not quibbling with what's happening. So if the full expression goes with the non-discriminating, non-judgmental awareness, the full self-expression goes with, well, as he said, it implies realization.

[21:33]

Realization is implied in full self-expression. Enlightenment is implied in full self-expression. It's implied because the full self-expression implies liberation from the idea that the self is independent. And again, in full self-expression, if there's an idea of independence, there's all this anxiety and fear around it, not of interdependence, but of, you could say, non-existence, or complete dependence. Complete dependence. Complete dependence means you're nothing. But you're not completely dependent.

[22:40]

You're interdependent. You depend on everybody else, but everybody else depends on you. So you're not nothing. You're interdependent something. But if you put out that you're an independent something, what that implies is ignorance. Ignorance has now been implied, and what that implies is total go from really existing independently to not existing at all. And in that situation, there's tremendous fear. And in that fear and anxiety, again, the self is born. Not just a regular, not a kind of a conventional self, not a dependently co-origin self, but another inherently existing self. When I say not a dependently co-origin self, I mean actually the self of a co-origin self.

[23:41]

it really does... it arises because it depends the sense of an independent self arises because of the fear of a totally non-existent self so even the idea of independence dependently co-arises even ignorance dependently co-arises and when you see the dependent co-arising of something that you think doesn't dependently co-arise, then you get to see that I think it doesn't dependently co-arise. This is the idea of something that doesn't dependently co-arise, and it dependently co-arose. Therefore, it is an incoherent, it's actually just an incoherent idea. And then that implies enlightenment, which also implies the precepts. cannot violate the precepts. This self is actually not killing, not stealing, and so on.

[24:50]

But we can't see this self in its full endangerment unless it's fully expressed. If you partly express it, then the full range of fear and anxiety is not revealed. You're just a little bit afraid, and you're a little bit anxious, and that's not the environment in which this is created. A full-scale, 360-degree threat, because it rejects all 360 degrees. Does the non-existence of the self include the non-existence of an independent self?

[26:00]

That there is an existent self, you know, in other words, a really existent self, a self that exists of itself, on its own, independently. When you have that view, then that self the only alternative for that self is totally non-existent. So from that point of view, you can't see an interdependent self. All you can see is total annihilation. But if you face the only alternative to this self is like nothing, because something really does exist, the only alternative to that is that it doesn't exist at all. It really doesn't exist. So in that sense, since you've narrowed yourself so much, the alternatives are also narrowed. So are you saying that an interdependent self is a contradiction in terms?

[27:05]

No, I'm not. An interdependent nothing is not a contradiction in terms. You could say an interdependent, even an interdependent independent self is not a contradiction in terms because an interdependent independent self just means called an independent self have dependently co-arisen. So it is a contradiction, Jones, you're right. But contradictory things do dependently co-arise. There is a dependent co-arisen. But Usually we don't feel that an independent self is a contradiction. We think it makes sense. We actually feel it. We say, yeah, I'm independent. We don't see the contradiction in that. But we're told that if we see that it is the dependent co-arising of the independent self, then we see the contradiction in that.

[28:07]

And we see the emptiness of that. There's nothing really to it other than all the things that make it. So it is not independent. We see that. But we see it particularly well when we see it be born. So in order to see it born, we have to be in a place where it is born. And again, it is born in the place of fear and anxiety. And once it's born, the fear and anxiety go on. Once it want to be born again and again out of that fear and anxiety which it produces or which it which not produces but which the ride depended on so we need to get to the place of creation in order to understand but we don't like to be in a place of creation because the place of creation is a place of vulnerability where we're open to everything that's happening and we're not used to that intensity

[29:12]

of creation. I've told the story many times of having a workshop on fear and anxiety. It was called Fear and Fearlessness. And I had this idea of doing something that would give people a direct, you know, experience of fear. So the meeting was going to be at Green Gulch, so I I thought, well, probably it would be good to go down swimming in the ocean in the dark. It was like a November retreat or something like that, I think. So it was cold and got dark early. So the workshop started in the evening. So I thought we could, rather than sort of abstractly talk about fear, we could actually have a group experience. So when people signed up for the workshop, they were told to bring a bathing suit.

[30:19]

Just that message to bring a bathing suit was sufficient to get people kind of worried. A lot of people dropped out when they heard about that. And actually, just that suit was sufficient to get people kind of worried. A lot of people dropped out when they heard about that. Now in the magazines, a lot of the women's magazines, it says a bathing suit anxiety, right? All these articles, how to get ready to wear a bathing suit. So anyway, they came. But then I thought, you know, But what if we go swimming? If I take them down into the ocean and it's night, I won't be able to see where they are and we might lose a few of the people. Some people might not even go in the water and just burrow into the sand.

[31:25]

So what I did is I just took a walk down to the beach with them but didn't go in. I gave up that idea. Huh? But anyway, as the workshop went on, I finally discovered that what people were really afraid of was not going into the ocean so much, but as being seen in a bathing suit. In other words, what people were afraid of was like getting up in front of a group and showing themselves. That was the most frightening thing. So since that time, actually, I've gradually been encouraging people to do that because it's not actually, so far, nobody actually has died. We haven't lost any people yet, although we might someday, and then I guess I'll get busted. But so far, when people come in the group or to meet individually and show themselves, so far, nobody's been killed or maimed in the process.

[32:37]

but it's like it's almost it's almost like that's what's going to happen to some of the people are as afraid as you know skydiving or whatever and uh and some people use the example of until you skydive you don't know what it's like and so a group for a lot of people in these situations where you're not just coming up but you're supposed to like show yourself Not come up and hide. Not see if you can come up in front of us and not show yourself. Come up and show yourself. And if you don't show yourself, you know that you didn't do what you actually were coming up to do. I hid. I managed to go up in front of everybody and hide and see what that feels like. But also, try again and not hide and see what that feels like. So it actually effectively creates . So we saw from that simple exercise that simply doing that is actually endangering yourself.

[33:48]

To some extent, there really is some danger. Some people really might think that the way you stood up was really stupid, really awkward, really phony, really arrogant. Somebody might. It's possible. We're not guaranteeing that that won't happen. Generally speaking, this is a loving and supportive group, but there might be one sniper who's like, you know, putting everybody down just in the most accurate and incisive way. But, you know, you can survive that. And so, but still, the intensity is there, so you felt it. And those are the kind of situations, I think, where if you can be calm while you're anxious, if you can be calm while your independent self is being threatened with non-existence and watch that, you can see, you can learn, you can realize enlightenment right in those situations.

[34:56]

That's psychotherapy. And it's also, you know, Zen enlightenment. And we do it together, so we're all helping each other do this. We're all supporting each other through this. Okay, so... Because you, you know, you get your money's worth. So would you please come back at 10 o'clock? There was a last question to you that something about oh yeah that you can love people that you don't like.

[36:12]

Remember that? You can be totally you don't like and also you can like someone I didn't mention that but you can like someone and not love them you can like someone and disrespect them. You know about that? And in terms of meditation, when you discover certain things about the personality or about the understanding of the self, You may not like it, but you can love what you find. And love means you can be devoted to it. I know this person who loves her daughter.

[37:17]

I love her daughter quite a bit. And she is really a devoted mother, an excellent mother. And now the daughter is a mother, and the daughter is an excellent mother. And I think it has something to do with some things she learned from her mother. Dare I say that also some things she learned from her father. She didn't learn exactly how to be a mother from her father, but she learned things from her father that helped being a mother. And anyway, the mother... I mean, the mother's love of the child is not... It really wasn't so much about life.

[38:19]

As a matter of fact, the mother often thought the child was a jerk. And the child... was not very respectful of the mother a lot of the time. But the mother really did love the child, and it was not some kind of favor that the mother was doing to the child. It's just that the mother felt basically that the child was her. I mean, you know. There's no alternative. You just have to be devoted. You just are. Like it or not, you're totally devoted to her. Totally devoted. And also respectful and really noticing what's going on there. So I really saw, I've really seen many examples of love, of dislike, strong, steady

[39:25]

brilliant love right in the face of fairly intense dislike, and for good reason, dislike. And in some sense, you know, being as obnoxious as possible just to see if we can keep loving them. Will you love me if I act like this, or will you only love me if I'm real nice? And almost like our own mind is that way, too. Our own mind seeks to see, can I be this way and still receive love? The answer is yes. The answer is you can love anything. You can love the most despicable, nasty, petty manifestation of life. It's possible to love it. But you don't have to like it. And also, there are certain things about ourselves which are not at all just simply natural, like the fact that we're quite vulnerable and fragile. Babies are vulnerable, and we usually, you know, we tolerate that for a while, but gradually sometimes we stop tolerating their vulnerability.

[40:35]

We stop loving their vulnerability, which to face their vulnerability, so after a while we stop loving our vulnerability. And that's also part of the formation of the personality. Something more stable and tough than our true fragile nature. So that's already happened. A lot of us don't like feeling vulnerable. But as we meditate, there's a general tendency as you meditate more to notice more how vulnerable you are. And a lot of people don't like it. I don't think vulnerability is bad. It's just a fact. And it's not a comfortable fact, generally speaking. So it's quite understandable that someone might feel pain and discomfort when they discover their vulnerability.

[41:39]

And then you're tempted to get angry at it, or angry at yourself for being vulnerable. or just hate the vulnerability. Some people say, I hate how vulnerable I am. Some people say, I hate being vulnerable to you. But what I feel is, what I encourage is, the fact that you can, even though you hate it, the fact that you can see it, the fact that you're open to it, to some extent, even though you a little bit are fighting it, is really a very good step. And then if you can open your eyes to it without hating it, that would be better. But you don't have to like it. But if you can open your eyes to vulnerability, you can open your eyes to beauty. If you close to vulnerability, you close to beauty. If you close to vulnerability, you close to all the support you're getting.

[42:42]

So, again, I maybe told the story, when I went to the hospital for this heart attack and I was there in the emergency ward, I was feeling pretty vulnerable. I was vulnerable and I was open to vulnerability and I wasn't fighting it. I wasn't saying, you know, I wasn't saying, darn, I'm having a heart attack. I don't like having heart attacks. I hate having heart attacks. I wasn't into that. Now, maybe if I had them every few days, I might start getting bored, you know. Oh, another heart attack. Oh, crap. Anyway, the first one, I really kind of like, was kind of like, I was pretty open. I was pretty open to the fact that I might be having a heart attack and that something else might happen. I was pretty open. I was pretty. I was pretty happy that I wasn't, like, running away from this heart attack.

[43:47]

Okay? So I'm kind of telling you I was pretty happy with the practice. The years of practice, I thought, came to fruition very soon. I responded to this heart attack. And then, in that openness, I could see I could see all the love and support, tremendous love and support that I had been receiving for a long, long time. I could see that. So I had a little pain here, and I had a danger of damage to my heart or dying, but that seemed this big compared to what all this other stuff was. And I think some people may go to the hospital and they're trying to like not have a heart attack. They're fighting it.

[44:50]

But I think when they fight it, they don't look out into the emergency room and see all the love. I think. But if you stop fighting your pain, you see more love. So, anyway, as you meditate, you start to notice this vulnerability, and that's actually, that's really good when you open to it, because that means you're going to open above the things that are going to be very helpful to you. And another thing I'd like to say, which is a little bit, slightly miscellaneous, but actually right to the point, also. And that is, I was just reading, one Zen teacher said that, you know, the forms of Zen, the forms and ceremonies of Zen, the rituals, like the form of the sitting posture and the structure of meditation retreats and various other forms and ceremonies, he said the purpose of them is to cut off the ego.

[45:57]

And I thought, different language, maybe that's more the way they talk in Asia. When you say that in America, I think people get, I don't know if they get the right idea. For me, what the forms and ceremonies are about is to surface, to flush the ego out into the open. That's the first thing it does. Then, if you look at it, you could say the ego gets cut off. And the ego being the idea that something exists inherently of itself. That idea drops away. But first of all, the forms bring out the ego, bring out the belief of the independent person who makes her own schedule. I'm an adult. I don't have to play this sick Zen game. Of course, when you first come to the Zen practice, you want to practice Zen.

[47:01]

But then, Your self comes out after a while and says, you know, this is too much. I've had it. It's time for me. You got it. Then you can study it. Because everything goes according to what you want, you hardly notice yourself. Who, me? I don't see any ego around here. Everything's going fine. So, I was... I have an idea of another exercise which I'll tell you about. But I thought maybe we should, I don't know, before I tell you about this exercise I have, maybe we should just be quiet for a while.

[48:24]

And so, want to be quiet for a little while? I'd like to reiterate and bring up again is it comes to me because although the spirit in this group in many ways very happy at the same time many people are suffering right now

[49:28]

quite a bit and are many people in this group are experiencing suffering and discomfort and again I'm not exactly I'm not happy that you're in pain but I am happy that this weekend has been a time for many of you to open to your pain that give your pain some attention and love during this weekend. That when you felt uncomfortable, you didn't run away much this weekend. And again, to remind you the difference between being in pain, the difference between saying, why am I in pain? Why is this pain happening?

[50:31]

That kind of question, which I think keeps your pain at a distance, comes saying, am I in pain? What is this pain? Where is this pain? When is this pain? And also, who is experiencing this pain? One Zen teacher was going off on a pilgrimage. He said goodbye to his teacher and went off for a pilgrimage. And as he's walking down the hill, he stubbed his toe on a rock. And he really stubbed it so it was bleeding. And in the midst of that pain, he said something like,

[51:37]

If the body and mind don't really exist, who is experiencing this pain? And he woke up. He had a great enlightenment experience. In the middle of that pain, wondering, who is this? So anyway, please, in your pain, using who and when and what and where and how. Get closer to it now that you've opened to it. Use these questions to get closer, but be careful of the word, the question why, which might make you farther from it. It might even make you blame somebody other than yourself. Another thing I'd like to say is that I told Brajesh about this idea of having a workshop, which is, you know, guess what is the title of the workshop, or come and be surprised, you know, or maybe it could be called make a workshop.

[52:59]

You come and create it. together with the group. And he thought that was really a good idea. He's up for it. And maybe next May we'll do something like that. And he also asked me if I would do a longer workshop here, maybe a five-day workshop. And so probably next May there'll be a workshop which has a weekend section for those who only come for the weekend. And then it will go on three more days for those who can do five days. If you want to do something longer like that, you might look for it in May. The other thing was that there's quite a few people who asked to meet with me individually, and I would like to meet with you all, so I'll stay afterwards. Come and see me.

[54:04]

And I'll serve vegetables. And peeps. I was also, you know, I found it very endearing that on the package, on the peep package... It says, newborn. Huh? It says newborn. Newborn peeps. I thought that was really endearing. I could do anything.

[55:28]

I did see that it's not possible to love somebody They won't show you their face. So I thank you for showing your face so I can love it. And... Good luck. I beg you to continue to show me your face so that we can love you. Even though I know it's difficult to show it because sometimes the way you're showing this is that you're really suffering.

[56:40]

And so it's hard to... It's hard enough to face your suffering but then to show it to somebody else is even scarier. But you couldn't show it to yourself, of course. But you can love it, and so we can love it. I think you've done a great job of healing your suffering and showing it. And I think that mostly we've loved each other even though we kind of showed pretty much who we really are. So I wouldn't say I learned this, but I am a little bit closer to feeling like it might be possible to come by with being who we are, to actually be who we are and also be loved.

[57:48]

That might actually be possible. So I hope we can continue to gradually, more and more, expose ourselves fully to each other. And the kind of difficult, but I never thought I would be part of a nudist colony. We might have to put all our clothes off eventually. I really don't like the idea, but it may be necessary. I want to thank you for taking off a lot of your clothes during this weekend and finding out that we all survived, didn't we?

[58:51]

our outer clothes and our inner clothes. As someone said, our main hiding is in our mind, hiding ourself from ourself. We work out the mental hiding in other ways. However, it doesn't work. It doesn't really work. So let's gently give up the habit of hiding. and help each other and encourage each other, even though when someone shows us something that they don't like and that we don't like, keep loving them, not what they... keep loving them for showing it to us. Tell me more about what I don't like. Tell me more. I'd love to hear you tell me what I don't like. I hate you. Tell me more. You're a terrible teacher.

[59:55]

Yeah, come on, tell me. You're not helping me at all. Yeah, come on. Tell me the rest. Just a second. I want to take a break. Okay, now tell me more. Thank you very much. all packet alone, but you know, it's warning.

[60:36]

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