I didn't quite understand what you were... I wish you could describe a little bit more what you meant by ethics. Ethics? When you were talking about compassion. Okay, thank you. Ethics, so one way to describe ethics is that it involves basically being careful of all your actions. So, for example, when you speak, speaking in a way that's telling the truth And when you speak of others, not speaking in a way that in any way disrespects them. Or when you speak about yourself, to speak in a way that doesn't put you above people. And when you interact with people, interact in a way that you have a watch to see that you're not taking something that's not given.

[01:10]

When you relate to other living beings or your own life, watch to be careful that you're not in any way constricting or limiting or undermining any life form. When you're doing things, watch to see that you're not doing them in an addictive, intoxicating way. When you relate to sexuality, check that it's really careful and and also that it's not something that you're taking that's not given or you're forcing something on someone. So it's also like watching to see if you're being possessive of something, trying to hold on to it. Watch out for any ill wills to look and see. Do you have any... Do you wish any ill on anybody? Just look at that and watch out for that. Be careful of that because...

[02:12]

It's even possible to be generous towards someone but then notice that you have some ill will towards them. And so on. So those kinds of kind of like ethical what's the word? Ethical guidelines to sort of check your conduct in relationship to beings. This is part of compassion. And then another part of that is another part of ethics is to is to be aware of what you aspire to. For example, if you aspire to compassion, that's your aspiration, and then if you notice that you're not following through on that aspiration according to some precepts of compassion, that you notice how you feel about that, and so feeling regret when you're not following through on your aspiration to practice ethics is part of ethics. or feeling embarrassed that you're not following through on your aspiration.

[03:17]

That's also part of ethics. Feeling embarrassed that you wish to be kind and you're not being kind. So I'm kind of embarrassed that I want to be kind to people and I'm not being very kind right now. Or I want to be careful but I wasn't careful just now the way I spoke or the way I moved. I aspire to move carefully and mindfully, but just then I was kind of not really very careful. I'm kind of embarrassed because this is not the way I want to be, and so on. That's also part of ethics, and that's also part of compassion, is to feel some uncomfortable feeling when we're not doing what we really want to do. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Good. Any other things you'd like to discuss? Yes, please come. So of the hindrances, doubt seems to be the one to which I'm most prone.

[04:39]

Yes. And so I often find myself wondering in the context of having the intention to be generous or having the intention to be compassionate, I may think, you know, yes, I really do intend to be compassionate towards this person. And you want to be? Well, I think I want to be. You think you want to be, yeah. But then at the same time, there's something that says, well, no, you just want to seem like a nice guy. or you want to get something from this person by showing them how generous or how compassionate you are. And it's very hard for me to discern whether that is an accurate understanding of what I'm doing or if that's doubt.

[05:45]

I think it's more like an accurate understanding for unenlightened beings. So prior to wisdom, in fact, even an unwise person can actually wish, can kind of be touched by reality. And suddenly, even though unenlightened and subject to delusions and habits, such a person can still wish practice compassion, and sense that that would be the path to freedom from the discomfort of delusions that he's experiencing. So then you have the wish. However, you haven't yet entered reality, so you still kind of think that perhaps people are separate from you in a substantial way. So you're still kind of concerned. Because of that sense of separation, you're still kind of concerned about gain and loss, whether people like you or not.

[06:50]

You're still concerned about that. But even though I'm concerned about people liking me, I still might want to actually be generous in sensing that that's the path to freedom. So you could say, I doubt that I'm enlightened. I doubt that I've entered wisdom. Yeah, I think, I would doubt it too under those, it's not exactly doubt, it's actually quite, it seems quite wise to be aware that if there's those kind of feelings, it's probably an indication of not understanding the situation very well. But you still could wish to be compassionate and actually be compassionate, but somewhat afflicted still by incomplete understanding. So you can do a lot of good and move forward towards wisdom under the situation of not being wise. And it also happens in this path that when you enter wisdom and then you continue the practice after entering reality, you do come to a point where you actually have no doubt about the path.

[08:07]

But that doesn't mean you go around thinking, this is the path. When you're wise, you realize the path can be no other than this. I have no doubt about it. But I don't say that this is the path. And I also don't say this is not the path. The path is actually, the path of wisdom is free of this and that. And it's free of separation. So it's all pervasive, but we have to practice compassion and wisdom to realize that. Now if you have doubt about whether that practice is going to work, that's different than doubt about your complete perfect enlightenment. So we usually don't see doubt as a hindrance when someone doubts that they're not yet completely enlightened. It's more like doubt that compassion would be a good idea, doubt that concentration would be helpful, doubt that patience is a good way to be with pain.

[09:12]

Those kinds of doubts interfere with the practice. But doubt that I'm completely enlightened, that kind of doubt isn't harmful necessarily. Both types of doubts should be dealt with with compassion. But one is really almost everybody would agree, including the Buddhists. They would say, yes, you have not yet achieved complete perfect Buddhahood. That's right. So if you doubt that, that's correct. The Buddha doesn't really doubt the Buddha. The Buddha just sees it. It's not a doubt for the Buddha. And actually, you don't have to even doubt it. You just say, I'm pretty clear. I'm not rigid about it, but I'm pretty clear that I still have attachments and I still think things are separate and I'm still afraid of beings who I think are separate. I still feel all that. But I still wish to practice compassion and I really feel enthusiastic about it. And I really feel joy when I practice it. I'm not doubtful about that. And you might say, I have a little bit of doubt that the Buddha way is not the slightest bit different from what I'm doing right now.

[10:22]

I have a little bit of doubt about that too. And that again is something to discuss with your co-practitioners to be clear that that is the story. And that must be the enlightenment, because if enlightenment is separate from what we're doing, that enlightenment is defiled by separation. And if what we're doing is separate from enlightenment, then what we're doing is defiled by separation. So we can do an undefiled practice that has no separation in it, even before we completely understand that it's so. That's the context that we're practicing. And we do not have to think, it's not really healthy to think there's no room for, you know, further refinement in the practice. I really feel like I do forget sometimes and I could be more consistent. I do sometimes feel like sometimes I miss a chance to be kind to someone. Sometimes I feel like my timing isn't right on.

[11:22]

I kind of miss the beat there. You don't have to call that doubt. That would only be doubting that I never miss the beat. So that's probably good to doubt that. Because almost nobody never misses. Anything else? Yes? I've been wondering about something I've heard you say with regards to being compassionate towards our delusion. Yeah. And I'm curious what that means in a practical, how do I do it kind of way. Well, for example, let's say I looked at somebody and thought, they're not as good at practicing Zen as, well, for example, me.

[12:33]

If that's such a thought would happen to rise in my mind, well, that looks like a delusion to me. And not only is it a delusion, but it's kind of like doesn't go with the precepts of not putting myself above someone. So that's a delusion. Or I might say, I feel, you know, somehow I feel like Tyler is separate from me. I feel like actually Tyler's life is actually separate from my life. I've heard that that's not true, but I kind of, if I watch myself, it's almost like I act that way. Would I really be ready to give him as much as I would give what seems to be me? Am I really like impartial in relationship to him? And if I'm not, probably there's some sense of separation. So that's a delusion, right? It's a delusion of separation I've heard about. So it seems to be operating. So then what I do to that, I don't beat myself up for having that sense of separation.

[13:42]

I actually say thank you very much for this opportunity to say thank you very much to this delusion. I see this as an opportunity to welcome the delusions which I seem to be involved in. Now, if you're talking and I notice the way you're talking seems to indicate that you feel separate from me, then I would also welcome you to have that delusion. And again, I wouldn't look down on you for having that problem, even if I at the moment thought I didn't. When you don't look down on people, that's kind of almost an indication that you kind of understand you're not separate. So whenever I notice something going against the precepts or some sense of separation, I can be very generous towards that. It's not like I like the separation. I like the sense that our lives are not the same. It's that I'm kind to it.

[14:42]

It's that I'm not trying to get rid of it. I'm welcoming it. But then again, that's not the whole story because the next step is I have to practice ethics with it. I have to be careful of it because the sense of separation, even if you let it in the house, if you're not careful of it, if you don't keep your eye on it, you can trip up on it. And something come out of your mouth which shows that you weren't paying attention to it and now you're talking, now you're speaking the sense of separation. You're speaking disrespectfully or whatever. Oops, I slipped. So, okay, I'm sorry. Now I'll go back and try to be more careful with this delusion which I now have let into my life and recognize, okay, delusion, you can live here with me. And then be patient with it because delusions are the cause of grasping and suffering. So then be patient with the pain that surrounds delusions. Now we're being compassionate with it.

[15:45]

And then we can now start to calm down with it and be relaxed with it. And then we can look at it in the context of concentration supported by compassion. And then we can see, oh yeah, that really is a delusion. And it appears there, it actually appears that I see a separation, but there's no belief in it anymore. The magician's now been trained. They're not fooled by it anymore. It's just an appearance of separation. It's not eliminated. It's just a phantom. It's a phantom that we're not interdependent. But that phantom of independence does appear. The magical show of independence is being performed. If you're compassionate with that show, eventually, when you're compassionate with the show, you become a magician's apprenticed. And to keep practicing, watching the magician's work, you get it.

[16:47]

And then you're not fooled by it anymore. And then you can continue to do these practices while the appearances of separation and so on appear. You can continue to practice the compassion and go deeper and deeper into realizing that it's an illusion. And deepen the wisdom and deepen the compassion around and around. So, if I understand correctly, it would be the practicing of compassion with a delusion would be recognizing the delusion. Well, first recognize, you don't have to even say it's a delusion, you just see it. And then, now that you've recognized it, now you can practice generosity with it. And that generosity is... How do I be generous with a delusion? I think I'm hearing that I recognize that it's a painful experience and that I'm compassionate towards the pain that is associated with that delusion.

[17:50]

Well, pain itself is not a delusion, but the sense that the pain is separate from you, that's the delusion part. And so, yeah, pain in your leg isn't really a delusion, But feeling like there's a separation between maybe you and the pain, that sense of separation is a delusion. And you can welcome that sense of separation and the pain. So welcome, you can welcome, if something wasn't a delusion, that should be welcome too. So compassion is practiced towards phenomena and it's also practiced towards delusions about phenomena. So phenomena, but generally speaking phenomena do appear in a deceptive way. So basically just practice compassion towards all phenomena and that will include all delusions. And if you practice compassion with all delusions you will calm down with all delusions and you will understand all delusions and be free of all delusions without eliminating anything.

[19:01]

Become free with them. Because if there's no delusions, there would be no possibility for compassion. But there is delusion, so there is a possibility for compassion. I think what I'm struggling with is the idea of being compassionate to a delusion is a compassionate to like a thought. I'm familiar with the idea of being compassionate to a person, but to a thought or to a kind of an abstraction is what I'm struggling with. How do I generate compassion for this concept? Well, like, when you look at other people, what you're looking at is your image of them. You're looking at your mental construction of the person. So you're being compassionate towards a mental construction. You know, mental construction, friend, mental construction, enemy, mental construction, benefactor, and so on. You're looking at your construction of the person, and you're practicing compassion towards the mind's construction of this person.

[20:03]

And if you practice compassion towards your constructions of people, you become free of it. And then you see that people are not just your construction of them, which is right, of course. Most people know that, that people are not their idea of them. But some people actually think people are exactly their idea of them. They think the person is exactly their idea of them, that they're really that way. And they don't even notice what a problem that is. And they blame the person for the pain they feel of believing the person is that way. So then we recognize that as the delusion it is and then we're compassionate towards it. And if you keep practicing compassion towards it, that leads you to open to it. the reality of it, which is that your image of them is not reality.

[21:09]

And then you're free of this illusion, even while the show goes on. Right, it starts to dissolve then a little bit. The reality of it drops away and the show goes on. You keep practicing with it and keep practicing compassion with it and keep practicing wisdom with it and show other people how who have not yet learned that and understand and see how before they learn it how troubled they are by not understanding and be inspired when you see that to help them So be compassionate towards the delusion and of course towards the suffering that people feel based on the delusion. So we're compassionate towards the sufferers and we're also compassionate to the cause of suffering. But this leads to freedom from the cause of suffering and freedom from suffering.

[22:16]

So then compassion is the path to that freedom. Compassion is the path to that wisdom, which is, the wisdom is freedom. So compassion benefits before, during and after wisdom. It brings benefit before wisdom and brings wisdom and then it functions in wisdom and continues after wisdom is attained and becomes more effective because now you understand the practices you've been doing. You understand them better because you're no longer seeing them, for example, as substantial. So you're not rigid about these practices. You're more flexible and much more relaxed to do these same practices which you used to do with some stress because you had this sense of separation with the practices and with the beings you're practicing with. When you enter reality, the process of freeing beings becomes fully facilitated or more and more facilitated and eventually perfectly facilitated.

[23:27]

One last question, which is how do you become then, how do you cultivate that compassion? How do you become more compassionate? You cultivate the compassion by right now practicing generosity. Are you doing it? Are you trying to do it? I think I'm trying to do it. Yeah. And the more you practice compassion, the more it grows. It grows on itself. And when you miss practicing compassion, then that's an opportunity lost. But if you feel some sorrow and embarrassment about it, then you're back on the path. Like you were talking with a fellow earlier. Yes. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Any other comments? Yes?

[24:36]

My questions kept changing. And where I am right now, which from the conversation that was happening, is I realized or I had this thought that I am the mind. Not that I have a mind or there is a mind, but I am the mind. And on the contrary, I always thought in my mind that if I am, there's a sense of freedom. But I realized, no. I did not experience the freedom to be the mind. And I kind of feel a little bit sad and frustrated and like, what am I in?

[26:04]

Where am I? If one practices compassion towards that sadness and that question, the path is functioning. And practice being careful of that sadness and careful of that question. Let that question be here. And then be patient with that question. And then be calm with that question. And then you'll enter the reality of that question without even answering it. If the answer comes, do the same thing with the answer that you did with the question. And you'll enter the reality of the answer.

[27:07]

I have this really intense curiosity. What happens to the being? Where is the being? That's another thing. The curiosity is another question. That question should also be treated with compassion. That question is welcome into the meditation. And the question is not in addition to, the questioner. The questioner is welcome, and the question is welcome, and the questioning. The question, the questioning, and the questioner are all welcome. And if another question comes, same with that. In other words, don't let anything learn to not be distracted from compassion by whatever comes. Then I have to really, really, really learn how to be careful, and I have not been, and I'm very careless.

[28:23]

Yeah, so you're practicing generosity, then you also have to be careful because you're practicing generosity, and then you're not careful, and the next thing that comes, because you're not careful... knocks you off your balance and you forget to practice generosity with it. So you're practicing generosity, the thing comes in and then it does some surprising thing and rather than be careful of that and meet it, you think, oh, what is it? And you forget, oh, it's another opportunity. So that's why the compassion in the form of generosity is followed by conscientiousness and vigilance and carefulness. You don't have to really be careful in some ways at the beginning of practicing generosity. You don't have to be careful when you open the door at the beginning. Just opening the door is really great. Letting it in, letting it be is wonderful. But the generosity is deepened when you're careful with what you're just open to.

[29:28]

And if you're careful with what you're open to, then everything changes and you get another opportunity. So you're careful to go back and welcome the next thing. Rather than, if you're not careful with the change, then you may forget that it's another moment to start all over and practice generosity again. So you let the thing in and you've got to be careful now because it's going to change. Like, for example, you let the thing in and then you think, now what do we do? Start over. And if you're careful, you don't get shocked by the change. And you can do the practice again to receive the next moment, which is, now what do we do with this wonderful thing that we've allowed in our life? Like, you know, in all those movies where the two people meet each other on the terrace outside the cocktail party, you know, overlooking New York City.

[30:29]

They're out there and they're looking at each other and they're welcoming each other. There really is a saying, this is great to let you in my life and I get the feeling like you're letting me in your life. How wonderful. And then they think, now what? Rather than, let's do it again. Let's welcome each other again. And never know where to go or what to do with this. But you have to be careful. Because usually the next phase is they do something, which is not just giving. They try to get something. Keep going back to the beginning. Never lose track of the generosity, but you have to practice ethics to not get distracted of generosity by change. I still feel there is deeper than that.

[31:32]

There's what? It's deeper than that. Welcome deeper than that. Deeper than that is welcome? It's not about giving or getting or it's not that. It's deeper. It's way, way, way deep. Yeah, it's way, way, way deep. But again, be generous towards that, otherwise you'll get stuck in deep. There's this piece of... Things quite not clear in the root, so I don't know. It's something still not clear. It's in the root of, in the root of it, and that... I see you're saying, you're saying one sense you say it's deeper, and another sense you're saying you're seeing now some unclearness. In the root of it, yes.

[32:33]

In the depth of this depth there's this unclearity. Something's still... You sense something is not clear. Something still, mm-hmm. Yeah. So I've got to sit on that. It may be unclear for whatever that is. It may be unclear for a while, yeah. And if that's the case, that's what I'll take care of. I will be it. Thank you. You're welcome. Anything else this morning? I mean this afternoon? Yes? Yes, please. Thank you for coming.

[33:38]

We allowed our son to move back into the home. You allowed your son to move in with you again? Yes. We didn't say anything. And when he moved in, he began to occupy himself. I think I've talked about this before. And my husband and I had not been living alone without children for 32 years. So when he left we felt some joy that we could spend time without you know all the phenomena that would happen on a daily basis so we started to get quite comfortable and I even had plans wonderful of cleaning out the house wonderful and making space yeah and I can imagine we were talking really nicely to each other wow and getting along so well fabulous so

[35:13]

our son said he was going to be traveling, you know, which kind of scared us because he didn't have plans. But he was going to go study with the shaman, South America, and he never left. Now it's five or six months later. And maybe... maybe I say it a hundred times, maybe my husband says it five times or ten times, to move his things out of the living room, you know, out of the walkway, out of the, you know, they're parked everywhere. And it hurts him when he hears this. But he decides that he will do the opposite. And then yells at us about things that he doesn't like about us. And, um, sometimes slams doors and does other ways. And we've asked him to leave.

[36:20]

We've asked him to take his things and to leave. And he won't leave. So, we don't know if we welcomed him in, but we have a lot of attachment. I realize that I'm afraid of him being In a harmful place. Or doing harm to himself. Yeah. I worry about him because of the way that he's acting. That he's not well. He won't go to a doctor or to a dentist. He doesn't believe in western medicine. And he hates the police. He hates the police? He hates the police. They're all abusers. And so... You know, we've been stuck in this crossroads of trying to talk compassionately to him about the situation, trying to at times set limits and, you know, say that, you know, this is our home where we live and that we need to be respected and, you know, and it's really hard.

[37:38]

It's just very painful. It sounds really hard. But I think it is appropriate for you to give him the gift of telling him what his parents need and asking him to give you what you need. I think that's really a good thing to give him, to keep telling him what you need as a gift. I see it that way. Yeah, and I think that's really good to just keep saying, I need you to do this, I request you to do this, I need you to do this, and do it, you know... from a place of generosity and carefulness and patience. Just do it over and over because he needs to learn this. We all need to learn it. And it's very difficult to be consistent in this but it's really important that he needs to see this is what his parents want because this is the parent he has. He needs to see who you guys are.

[38:39]

That's a great gift to give to him. But he may not learn what you're showing him. It may be very difficult for him at this time to learn this. If he can learn this, I think it would really be great. We have been doing that, but we lose ourselves and we become, you know, saying hurtful things to him? You mean you get distracted from your compassion? It gets so painful sometimes that it just gets beyond your limit of your patience. Well, also not to allow him to do something harmful to us. Yeah. I think you want to say you know, do not do this, we ask you to not do this, we need you to not do this, and learned that that's actually a great kindness, that's a great job, that's a great performance that you can do, is to tell him this, he needs this.

[39:42]

But then sometimes it's so painful and so intense that you get distracted and you forget what you're doing, you forget that you're trying to practice generosity in a form of giving him a gift of who his parents are. and you slip into manipulation and control. Because it's so stressful, you can barely stand it. That's normal. But then you say, maybe to him or to each other, I'm sorry, I slipped. I didn't mean that. That wasn't... I wasn't really being patient. I'm sorry. But still, I want you to do this. And now I am patient. And now I do remember. And this is my love for you. I want you to stop this. I want you to be respectful. I need this. Please give it to me. And I'm not doing this to control you. I'm doing this for you to understand the reality of your mother. And now I'm here again. And now I feel good. I'm telling you who I am.

[40:43]

I'm sorry, I got distracted a few minutes ago. That was a mistake, I'm sorry. But here I am, this is me again. Here I am, this is the person I want to be. I'm back on the job. And then he's going to, he wants to find out how to do this. And it looks like you and his father are maybe the only people right now that he's going to learn this from. It does seem that way. Yeah, somehow he doesn't have any other teachers. But if he can listen to your kindness and learn from your kindness, then he'll be able to do it himself. That's what you want. Otherwise he'll hurt himself, which you don't want, and none of us want that. This sounds really hard, and I really pray that you can... be a great compassionate mother, because it sounds like that's what's needed, a really big, big challenge.

[41:51]

It's part of the blessing of being a parent, I guess. It's part of the blessing that it pushes you to become a great compassionate being. That's really what's needed. It's a huge responsibility to help the child learn this. and they can learn from other people but there's a way of learning from the parents that is very important and in some ways most difficult. Because parents want the best for their child and so do other adults but the parents might be more attached to the child's welfare than some other people are which makes it harder. But you can still do it even though there's still some attachment and by this compassionate, you will be able to be compassionate to him someday without being attached to his welfare. Just want it with no attachment. You can get to that place. And you kind of need to to be most effective.

[42:57]

Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Anything else before lunch? May the Bodhisattva way be realized in every being and place.

[43:55]

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