So I thought I would discuss the next So I'm looking at it the first time through, it looks like the top character means straight or honest, or direct, next character means down, so the first part is straight down.

[01:05]

Next one is, ding means like samadhi, it means to be fixed or settled, and this character has many meanings but I think the meaning that applies here is, you know, fitting, just, correct, right, so be fixed on the correct, or settled in the correct, or the true. And that's the title of this section. So, jikige could also be translated as right here, straight here, straight down here, right

[02:28]

here, could be translated as immediately, you're familiar with that, right, you're familiar with right here immediately, it's kind of familiar, zen practice, right, right here immediately, like sitting on a cushion, your cushion, and the next one could be translated as settling down in the truth, or it could be accepting the truth, or it could be translated as the way it's translated in the Muni Dewdrop, hitting the mark, fixed on the mark, hitting the mark, you know, the point, hit the point, the truth, okay, so settle down right here,

[03:30]

hit the mark, immediately hitting the mark, or immediately settling down, that kind of thing, all right, that's the title of this section, a lucid translation is directly realizing the way, or directly realizing enlightenment. So the text goes, there are two ways to penetrate body and mind, studying with a master to hear the teaching, and devotedly sitting Zazen.

[04:35]

So you've heard this term before, like San-Chi-Mon-Po, remember, San-Chi-Mon-Po, San, you know, go, visit, she, teacher, mom, listen, or ask about Dharma, go to the teacher and listen to, listen about Dharma, listen to the teaching, and so that's San-Chi-Mon-Po, and the other one is just sit, be devoted to sitting. Those are the two ways to penetrate body and mind, or these are two ways to settle body and mind, or two ways to realize enlightenment. Listening to the teacher opens up your conscious mind, while sitting Zazen is concerned with

[06:01]

practice enlightenment, practice dash enlightenment, not and, so another way to say it would be, while sitting Zazen is concerned with the unity or unifying practice of enlightenment. Therefore, if you neglect either of these when entering the Buddha way, you cannot hit the mark, you cannot settle down. If you try to settle down without going to the teacher and receive the teaching, you won't be able to settle down in the way, and if you try to go to the teacher without devoting yourself to just sitting, you won't be able to settle down in the way, these two.

[07:04]

Everyone has a body-mind, in activity and appearance, its function is either leading or following, courageous or cowardly. The body-mind is either leading or following, courageous or cowardly, or you could say leading, strong, following, weak, high or low, and that refers again back to everyone has a body and mind, in activity and appearance the function could either be being turned by Dharma or turning the Dharma. To realize Buddha immediately with this body-mind is to hit the mark, is Joto, is to be fixed

[08:26]

on the correct, to settle down in the truth or to accept the truth. So it's kind of an interesting expression because that character to, jo, means to concentrate or to fix or decide, but with the next character which means correct or whatever, the two are all translated as accepting the truth as it is, so it sounds kind of active, but it's often translated as receptive, nice comment, nice thing that has both a quality of deciding and concentrating on truth as it is and in receiving truth as it is, or accepting truth as it is, and settling in truth as it is. So, to realize Buddha immediately with this body and mind is called hitting the mark or

[09:39]

settling down. Without changing your usual body and mind, just follow the Buddha's realization. Without changing your usual body and mind, just to follow Buddha's realization is called immediate, Jiggy Jay. Without changing your body, your usual body and mind, to follow the Buddha's realization is called right here. And it is called hitting the mark.

[10:47]

Without changing your usual, in other words, this body and mind, to follow the realization of the other, using this body and mind without changing at all, follow the realization of the other is called right here, is called hitting the mark, is called settling down. Now, to follow the Buddha or follow the other completely means you do not have your old views. To hit the mark completely means you have no new nest. Okay?

[11:52]

With this usual body and mind, without changing it at all, you follow the realization of the Buddha, and follow the realization of the Buddha means you don't have your old views, you don't hold to your old views. So once again, with this usual body and mind, you don't hold to your own views. Not holding to your own views is following the example of the other. And that's called… What's that called? Nothing. That's called right here. Okay? With this body and mind, without changing it at all, not having your old views, that's

[12:56]

called being right here. And, not to get a new nest is to hit the mark completely. Okay? So you, with this body and mind, without changing it at all, following the realization of the Buddha, which means you let go of your old views, is settling down. And then, now that you're settled, through letting go of your old views, and using this body untouched, you don't take a new nest. Which is called hitting the mark, or accepting things as it is. When you accept things as it is, you don't settle into a new nest.

[13:57]

You give up your old nest, and you don't settle into a new nest. In having your ordinary body, you give up your old nest, and don't settle into a new nest. Since you just proceed following the other, your teacher, you are free from your old views. Since you settle down right here, you do not seek a new nest. So, I think that's enough on that. I'm kind of done. And you can use this little phrase there as a, you know, learn to use that phrase.

[15:08]

It's a very compact way to penetrate body and mind. It's a very compact way to settle body and mind. Would you translate the phrase again in English? Well, one way is, right here, settle down. Another way is, hit the mark, immediately. No, I think it's better to say, immediately hit the mark.

[16:10]

Settle down right here. Hit the mark immediately. Right here, settle down. Immediately hit the mark. You see? You can do it either way. So, it's settling down right here, sitting, and hitting the mark immediately. She said, is settling down. Sitting, and hitting the mark, meeting the teacher? No, I think it's the other way around. I think it's more like, hitting the mark, is accepting teaching. Meeting the teacher is hitting the mark.

[17:22]

You did? Okay. And right here, is sitting. Sitting is immediately, after sitting. Sitting is immediately. Sitting is jikige. Just sitting is immediately. Huh? Settling down is meeting the teacher. Settling down is the same as accepting the truth as it is. Would you mind repeating the translation of the last sentence of the text? Well, I did it two different ways. Okay? One way is, to follow Buddha completely means you do not have your old views. To hit the mark completely means you don't have a new nest.

[18:24]

To follow Buddha's teaching is to accept the truth as it is. Thank you. So there's these two dimensions, in a sense, these two different ways. And, you know, in this particular way of putting it, they often speak of, you know, isn't that amazing how that works? It's like, uh, the, uh, visiting the teacher, and, uh, listening to the Dharma, is having faith in and following the other. And putting all your energy into Zazen,

[19:29]

is accepting this, this, uh, what the teaching you get from the other, accepting it into yourself and realizing it by yourself. So you, you go and you receive the teaching, and then you take it into yourself and settle it into yourself. And, um, of course it's a cycle. And, like, if you come to Zen Center, maybe you come to Zen Center and you go to beginner's instruction, and then you take that instruction from the instructor, the beginning of Zazen instruction, and you take it into yourself, and you realize it by yourself, and you're sitting. And then maybe you have some problems. So you go see the teacher, you get more instruction,

[20:31]

and you take the teaching, and you settle it in yourself. And maybe you have problems. So you go to the teacher, you receive the teaching, and you go and sit and settle it with yourself. So, um, it's a cycle. And usually when they present it, they start with, receive the teaching from the teacher, and then go sit. That's the usual. That's the first and second in this here. First is Sanchi Monpo, second is Shikantaza. But my experience, of course, is first is Shikantaza, second is Sanchi Monpo, because I meet people after they've had beginning instruction, and they're coming for further instruction. So to me it seems like it's Shikantaza and Sanchi Monpo. And if they haven't been doing Shikantaza, then I usually say, well, go back. But that's Sanchi Monpo. I say, go back and do it more.

[21:31]

You haven't even, haven't really tried it yet. Don't come and ask about it too much before you try it. That's, and that's, that's the instruction, you see. In other words, the instruction is right here. They're having trouble practicing right here, so then they could do Sanchi Monpo. They come to see the teacher, and the teacher says, get out of here, right here. And then supposedly, if you have heard from the teacher, right here, if you've heard from the teacher, immediately you go and say, oh, I got problems with my Zazen. Immediately. In other words, this, at that moment, with this body in mind, without doing anything to it, without like fixing it up, I got these problems, blah, [...] not fixing that up, okay, that body in mind, pain and confusion, blah, blah, blah, that body in mind, when you are listening to the teacher,

[22:36]

when you're listening to the teaching from the teacher, at that time, you don't have your old views. What's your old views? Well, I got this body and this mind. That's your old views, right? You bring this body and mind and this understanding of Buddhism, you bring them into the room, and when you come in the room, you don't bring those in. So then you can't remember what you came for because you thought you had problems, right? Well, then why go, if you can't bring your problems in the room? Right. If you can't like bring your problems and your old views and stuff that you had before, why go if you can't bring them in and talk about them? Well, that's the point. That's the reason to go, is to go in and not have your old views of your body and mind, including that you would change your body and mind. And then,

[23:36]

when you are in the room and giving up your old views of body and mind, what's the instruction? Immediately. Immediately. This is it. That's the instruction. And then, you got the instruction. What the instruction is to somebody who doesn't have any views, right? You don't have any views, and what's the instruction? Right here. This is what it's like. Right here. Or when we say, Genjokon, you got the right answer. But, now go sit and let that right here settle into your body. Then come back with having given up your old views and also not taking a new nest. So, what sometimes happens, you go back to the zendo, you take this, I've given up my old views, and immediately, and then you make that into a nest.

[24:38]

So, when you come back, supposedly it's supposed to be deeper now. The right here, the immediately no views, the immediately right here of, I've given up my old views, has now been driven into your bones. So, you're not bringing your bones that way. But, can you do that without making a nest? So, you go again and see if you bring in these bones that have been steeped in realization. Or, do you let go of those too? So, you see how that's a way to talk about it. Okay? Is it question time? Do we have a question? Do you have a question? Go ahead. It seems to me that it's at the same time, that it's not a sequence. You describe it as a sequence,

[25:40]

but this kind of meeting with the teacher is only possible I mean, if you are right there. If you are. Right. Except that if you haven't gone to see the teacher yet, then it's kind of like a sequence because you haven't gone yet. Let's say you're right here. Got that part down. Okay? With this body and mind, you're not doing anything to your body and mind. You're not changing it at all. Just got this body and mind right here. Okay? Well, at that time, she's doing pretty good of taking into herself her truth of what her body and mind is. You're doing your best at just sitting. Right? Whatever you're doing, you're like doing that. Let's say you're doing that. You're practicing immediately. What's your practice?

[26:42]

Immediately. Practicing suchness immediately. That's all she's doing. Pretty good. But she hasn't gone to see the teacher yet. So then it seems like it's a sequence that you go see the teacher. But when you get to see the teacher and the teacher says immediately, well then, yeah. It's not a sequence. But then it seems like a sequence because you leave the room and then you go see, can you do it by yourself? Can you drive this into your body? And there's one more thing I was going to say which I forgot to bring up and that is this is not so different from a traditional teaching in Buddhism which is like three levels

[27:42]

of developing wisdom which some of you have heard about before. I'll write the Sanskrit. And then each one of these you can add. Shrutamai Prajna Chintamai Prajna Bhavanamai Prajna These are the three levels of developing Prajna which are, you know, from Buddha and in the Abhidharma and in Mahayana literature and really it's in this

[28:44]

three levels of developing Prajna It's in this little section here too. Shruta means listen. So it's wisdom that comes by listening. But this amplifies the situation a little bit by saying Chinta and Chinta means reflection. It's related to the word Chitta or mind. It means reflection. Prajna which comes from reflection. Insight which comes from reflection. And the last one is Bhavana which means Bhavana means sometimes translated as practice or meditation or cultivation but literally it means to bring into being. It's the Prajna of bringing it into being. So the first level is the wisdom you get the insight you get from listening to the teaching. When you go in the room you listen to the teaching and you have an insight. You understand the instruction.

[29:45]

But then after receiving the teaching you actually think about it. After you get it kind of clear and you have insight from the teaching then you go and you think about it actually. And you might think about it in your sitting. What does that mean? How do I apply that? How does it work in this situation? That's by reflection. That takes the insight deeper. And finally the next level is the just sitting. And that takes it like sort of into your body. Your body becomes it. And then you go back up and you have the insight the reflective insight again of maybe I should go back and visit again. That might be nice. And then you go back and you listen again. But also you speak and you hear yourself talk because you are now speaking from your Zazen. So it goes round and round there too. But I mentioned this that when you first listen

[30:51]

you are supposed to listen in a sense kind of uncritically. You are supposed to give up your old view and just receive the new. Without adding anything or subtracting anything or quibbling at all. Just take it in. But then naturally criticism comes in and reflection comes in and discrimination comes in after that. After you get it in. But first you get it in. And then after you clear up all that and maybe go back with more questions from the reflection and get more information and more reflection around and around then you can go deeper and it becomes you. So this thing about a cycle is it's actually an illusion you're right. It's actually all simultaneous. But

[31:52]

since we live in the world of of sequence and cycles and time it looks like that for a while. Who had their hand raised over here? Was it Tracy? Yeah. It's not exactly wrong view it's just your old view. It's the view you had you know before you came in the room. It's not necessarily wrong. It could be perfectly good you know it could be swell. The point is bye-bye. Whatever. Yeah. It's a problem. What's the problem? Brain

[32:54]

brain dead? Yeah. Well this reminds me of something else I want to talk about. But you might feel derailed if I bring it up. But I'll just mention it and then and then you can see if you want me to forget it and tell some other time. Two years from now? It's this it's this expression you know and and and the reason why I say you might just want to hear about this is because this goes with the kind of the history of our family which I thought you'd find quite interesting. Our family means my family is your family our family. So a wonderful teacher came to Green Gulch last a couple years ago. We had this Tokubetsu Sashin. Is there an animal on him or something?

[33:54]

A huge put it down. It started back here in the middle. Okay so so and his name is his name is Tsugen Narasaki Narasaki Tsugen Narasaki Tsugen Roshi came to visit Green Gulch for a little while gave some talks we were discussing the secret secret teaching on Dharma transmission in the room talking about the transmission of Dharma that happens in the room when you come in and he gave nice talks and the best part was recorded but the tape recorder recorded at the wrong speed

[34:56]

so we have a problem here but anyway he told some wonderful stories about Tetsugikai Daisho and Dogen that I thought were so great but anyway in Japanese anyway at the end of his at the end of his talk he talked about he he said that when he he said 50 years ago he was 70 now he said 50 years ago he was 20 I went to a week long or something like that two weeks long seminar given by Kishizawa Ion Roshi on the same text that we were that we were studying there and he said after the after the course was over I I didn't understand anything except one thing I understood one thing I remembered of all he taught for the whole week and that was in

[35:59]

you must have the mind of an infant if we lose it we cannot find we cannot be Buddha does that apply? it does and I'd like to discuss with you more about this mind of the infant and also I'd like to discuss with you more about Narzaki Roshi and Kishizawa Ion but that was a parenthetical remark which could be expanded a bit or we can go on with your questions about this section which do you want to do? huh? which which was that? about about this teaching Narzaki Sugen Roshi Kishizawa you want to talk about that? people ready to move to that?

[37:05]

had enough of had enough of Gakudo Yojinshu for now? this applies because he's got because one of the main things about Gakudo Yojinshu is this thing about going to the teacher, right? well you've got to have the mind of an infant to go to the teacher that's part of the point and so I'd like to talk about that but before I talk about that I'd like to give you I'd like to let you be like an infant for a little while so be like an infant if you want to or be smart and critical and you know wonder if you really think if this is really your mother okay this might get messy I'll try to be tidy one time I was sitting out in the courtyard at Pei street and I had this this dictionary it was a it's kind of like

[38:07]

a Buddhist Chinese Buddhist dictionary by Soothill we have that library and and Suzuki Roshi was I was talking to him and I had that book and he we're talking about something he started writing this lineage of teachers that relate to well to him and other people that were closely related to in the back of the book and that was really nice that he wrote that and I'd like to share that with you so what was one of his main points was a particular teacher particularly important teacher named Oka Sotan any of you who read my book remember there's a story about him in there

[39:08]

remember that story he was a very good boy that's Oka Sotan so Oka Sotan was like not the generation before Suzuki Roshi but sort of the generation before the generation before Suzuki Roshi and Oka Sotan was an important Zen teacher in Soto Zen but he's particularly important I think to this particular community and so you'll see why I think as I draw this little chart and he's not important in the sense of being the Dharma lineage transmitter to us but more as a teacher who influenced many people who weren't his direct disciples actually all the people I'm going to write down here which are related to him

[40:09]

I think none of them are his direct disciples but were influenced by him so here's the people that were influenced by him Hashimoto Heiko Roshi Sawabi Kodo Roshi Kishizawa Iyama Kishizawa Iyama Ryokujin Son Ryokujin Son

[41:32]

Kishizawa Iyama lived in the 19th century I mean he did live in the 20th century pardon? when do you think he died? 1960 1960 something yeah died 19 probably not around 1960 died and born I don't know exactly when but probably died around 1960 So, Kichizawa Iyan Roshi, Gyokujun Son Roshi, Suzuki Roshi is a Dharma teacher, right? And Suzuki Roshi, when he was a little boy, his teacher, his father is Butsumon Sogaku Daisho. So Suzuki Roshi's father is Butsumon Sogaku Daisho, and his Dharma teacher is Gyokujun Son Daisho, okay? So his father, Butsumon Sogaku, sent him to his student, Gyokujun Son.

[42:50]

Kind of, you know, interesting, huh? Usually, most often nowadays, Japanese priests, if they have a son, they teach the son. They become the teacher of the son. In this case, he sent his son to another teacher. So Butsumon Sogaku is Suzuki Roshi's father, his blood father, and Butsumon Sogaku is Gyokujun Son's teacher, Dharma teacher, Dharma lineage teacher, okay? So Suzuki Roshi was sent to Gyokujun Son, alright, 1904 to 1971. Suzuki Roshi, when he got to Gyokujun Son, Gyokujun Son had quite a few students. I think there were about seven, six other students, and as you may have heard me tell you before, Gyokujun Son was very strict, and all the other monks ran away.

[43:55]

And Suzuki Roshi said, I would have too, but I didn't know I could. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the essence of our tradition. This is the mind of an infant. You don't know you can get away from your parents. That guy who ran away from home was a smarty-pants. Where are they going? They're all gone. Where are they? And here I am left with this monster. Anyway, he became Dharma's successor to this person, and I think this person died in 1930. I think that's when he died. Let's put died 1930, question mark. Then Suzuki Roshi went to study with Kishizawa Ion, and he studied with Kishizawa Ion from 1930 to 1955. Kishizawa Ion, Suzuki Roshi seemed quite a bit younger than him.

[45:08]

Suzuki Roshi was born in 1904, right? So he is 39 years younger than Kishizawa Ion. Is that right? What? Yeah. 39 years younger. So he goes to study with Kishizawa Ion Roshi, who is, by the way, Kishizawa Ion Roshi's teacher is Nishiyari Boksan, a very important Zen teacher. This is his Dharma teacher. Nishiyari Boksan in Sandalwood Mountain. He lived from 1820 to 1910. Anyway, don't get me off on him, but he was quite a guy. He was Nishiyari Boksan's master, but then after he died in 1910, Kishizawa Roshi studied

[46:11]

with Oka Sotan. Kishizawa Roshi is a direct disciple of a great Zen master named Nishiyari Boksan, an indirect student, in the same way that all these people are indirect students of Oka Sotan. That's sort of the point that Suzuki Roshi was trying to point out to me. And Kishizawa Ion then is the teacher of our founder. So our founder was trained as a young monk by this very strict Gokujun Son, who just had Suzuki Roshi, and then he went to study with Kishizawa Ion, who was a big teacher. Lots of people went to study with him. And like I told you, the name is Noiri. Noiri. Do you know Noiri Roshi's first name?

[47:19]

No. Something like Kijin or something like that. I'm not sure. I can't remember. Anyway, these three people, Noiri Roshi, Niwa Roshi and Suzuki Roshi, were in some sense, if I could say so, well, I certainly could say so for these two. These were his main disciples. Niwa Roshi did Suzuki Roshi's funeral. And Niwa Roshi and Noiri Roshi thought Suzuki Roshi was pretty good. The average person in Japan didn't really notice him. But these two disciples of Kishizawa Ion thought Suzuki Roshi was a good monk. A good teacher. Maybe great. And Suzuki Roshi did go so far as to say, we three, we three monks of Orient are the

[48:20]

main disciples of Kishizawa Ion. Kishizawa Ion's temple was near Suzuki Roshi's temple. And although Suzuki Roshi was 39 years younger than him, Suzuki Roshi became the head of a big temple. And Kishizawa Roshi's temple was under Suzuki Roshi's temple. So Suzuki Roshi was administratively superior to Kishizawa Ion, who just had a little temple. And he would come to Suzuki Roshi to pay his respects to the abbot of his senior temple. And Suzuki Roshi would try to get down from his seat, because he didn't want Kishizawa Roshi to bow to him. Kishizawa Roshi would say, get back on your seat. I'm going to bow to you. Suzuki Roshi had to accept the bow from his teacher. So Kishizawa Roshi wasn't a teacher, really, but administratively his junior.

[49:24]

So that's part of the reason why he was so connected, because he actually was working under Suzuki Roshi, but also his temple was near Suzuki Roshi's so he could go and study with him. So this is an important thing. I don't know of any teachings of Gyokurten Son other than, guess what? Right here. And try to be someplace else and see what happens to you. This is a strict Zen teacher, right? They don't even say right, they don't even tell you right here. But they give you feedback if you try anything but right here. That's the kind of teacher he was. I get the feeling. You know that story about he's the one who gave them the rotten pickles for breakfast and that's kind of like right here. These are the pickles you eat. Eat these pickles. Yeah, and then after he went away, they took these rotten pickles and buried them.

[50:31]

And then he just by chance went digging in the garden that day. And came upon these pickles that he gave his dear students. And he dug them up and washed them and cooked them and gave them back to him again. And Suzuki Roshi said he got a real deep understanding at that time. And the other six left. Anyway, this guy was very important for Suzuki Roshi. He really taught him something about the strictness of immediately. Immediately. Immediately, immediately, immediately. And then he died when Suzuki Roshi was 26. And Suzuki Roshi went to study with Kishizawa Ion. Now Kishizawa Ion, his teaching was not so much immediately. He talked a lot. He was a great scholar. And he wrote... He spoke and wrote a lot.

[51:33]

Actually, he was like a teacher, a school teacher before he became a monk. And also a calligraphy master. Kyokujin Son was an archer. And I went to his temple one time. And they still have his bows there at the temple. And he was the only one who could string his bows. So Suzuki Roshi was a pretty small little guy. But his teacher was really powerful physically. And so he didn't know how to get away. So we have Suzuki Roshi. So then he went to study with Kishizawa Ion. And Kishizawa Ion is the one who said you have to have the mind of an infant. Even though he had this really brilliant scholar's mind. And gave lectures on all the Shobogenzo. And monks came from all over Japan to hear his talks on Shobogenzo. And if you study Kishizawa Ion, you will see Suzuki Roshi there.

[52:39]

Most of what Suzuki Roshi says, most of his understanding of Shobogenzo, he says, Suzuki Roshi says, is from Kishizawa Ion. His understanding of it right here, I think, comes from his master. But I read with help, you know, Kishizawa Ion. It's just like Suzuki Roshi. So this is a very close connection here. Who wants to study with Kishizawa Ion? Any questions? You have a question? Yes? Yeah. Putsumon Sogaku also studied Gyokujutsu. No, Putsumon Sogaku was Gyokujutsu's master. It's Putsumon Sogaku Daisho, Gyokujutsu on Daisho. Right? Do you have Oka Sotan's deeds? Do you happen to know? I don't. But Suzuki Roshi said when he was a little boy and after his father sent him... Anyway, he was a little boy. He remembers one time Oka Sotan came to the temple. He remembers seeing him. So he saw him, but he was just a little kid. So he probably died around 1920 or something.

[53:46]

Probably died around 1920, I would guess. Maybe 30. I don't know. I'll try to find out. Anyway, let me talk about some of the other people. So we have... This is a very important Zen teacher, Hashimoto Roshi. So from him we have Narazaki Roshi. Narazaki. Narazaki. Saki or Zaki? Saki. Hmm? Saki. You think Saki? Yeah. This is... He came to Minnesota one time and they thought it was Saki, but it turns out to be Saki. And there's two of them. They're called the Narazaki brothers. One's named Iko. And he just died last year. And the other one's called Sugen. And Sugen is the one that this quote is from. Also, from Hashimoto Iko, is Katagiri Daini.

[54:49]

Katagiri Daini. 1928 to 1990. Hiroshi, as you know, is the third abbot of Zen Center. And his ashes are up at the ashesite next to Suzuki Roshi. So, his... Again, his Dharma... His Zen... His master is... What is it called? What is it called? How do you say it? Anyway, his master is not Hashimoto Roshi. Dharma? Dharma. Huh? Dharma teacher. His Dharma teacher is not Hash... He's like Honshi. The person he's a Dharma successor to is not Hashimoto Roshi. OK? He has another teacher. And his teacher was another one of these guys. So, his teacher is a teacher that...

[55:58]

Well... One of these guys that everybody would run away from. One of these... Huh? What? Katagiri's teacher was one of these guys that you'd run away from. So, one of the stories that he tells about his teacher was... He has his teacher in the bath. He was like... He uses his teacher in a temple, right? Him and his teacher in a temple. The two of them. That's it. Up in the snow, no food. No TV. No car. The two of them. His teacher takes a bath. Katagiri Roshi says, Do you want me to scrub your back? The teacher says, No. He does this for years. I don't know, whatever. Finally, he just washes the guy's back. Okay? Katagiri Roshi left his teacher and went to Eheiji to study.

[57:02]

He left his teacher who, you know... Basically, the guy didn't teach him anything as far as I could tell. I mean, he was like one of these perfect examples of not directly indicating anything. He goes to Eheiji and practices Zazen and loves Eheiji. And he gets to be Shuso. But he also gets to be Hashimoto Roshi's Anja. So he gets to hang out with Hashimoto Roshi. So, strong connection with Hashimoto Roshi. So then, later in life, Katagiri Roshi becomes a disciple of Iko Narazaki. Also from Hashimoto Roshi... Now it's getting messy. Also from Hashimoto Roshi is Yoshida Roshi. The woman teacher who first taught us sewing.

[58:06]

She's the first one. Suzuki Roshi brought her over with Katagiri Roshi's suggestion to teach us how to sew Buddhist robes according to Buddhist teaching. So she was our first sewing teacher and our first big lay ordination. She taught people how to make roxes. That gray okesa I have that I told you was made from old Tassajara robes. That gray one. She conducted that sewing session to make that robe. So she was a disciple and she was closely related to Katagiri Roshi and to us. And another disciple is a man named Kamatani Roshi that Suzuki Roshi was going to send me to study with. And when he got sick, he changed his mind. So many people closely related to us come from Hashimoto Roshi. And a very strict famous Zen teacher.

[59:09]

He was not the abbot of Eheji but the godo of Eheji when Katagiri Roshi was there. Suwaki Roshi, I think you know. What's the godo? Godo is like, in a sense, one step up from Tanto. One step closer to being the abbot. Suwaki Roshi is all those groups in in France that come from Deshimaru. Deshimaru is his student. All those French Zendos, German Zendos, Italian Zendos, Spanish Zendos, all those are from Deshimaru who is from Suwaki Koto Roshi. And of course Uchiyama Roshi, his Suwaki Koto Roshi is one of his main students. He became abbot of the temple that's called Antaiji. Antaiji is in Kyoto.

[60:11]

And they had a Zendo there that Hashimoto, that Suwaki Koto Roshi started. He didn't have a temple all those years before. So Uchiyama Roshi took over the temple. So Uchiyama Roshi is the teacher of what's his name, Okamura. Shohaku Okamura. And also out in the east coast what's his name, Fujita. He's come here sometimes. Isho Fujita. He's a student of Uchiyama Roshi. So quite a few people in America are coming from Uchiyama Roshi and indirectly then from Suwaki Koto Roshi. Suwaki Koto Roshi, I think, there's something about his teaching that I think we like, right? Very nice style. And Tadagiri Roshi appreciated Suwaki Koto Roshi and also Suzuki Roshi appreciated Suwaki Koto Roshi. Suwaki Koto Roshi I think is a wonderful, wonderful teacher

[61:18]

and so is Hashimoto Roshi. And also Suwaki Koto Roshi is the teacher of I'm getting crowded again kind of the partner to Yoshida Roshi is Joshin Sakai. Sakai Joshin. Joshin. And she's the second sewing teacher that came and taught us. And Blanche was her main student in terms of learning sewing. And she was Suwaki Koto Roshi's student too. So Uchiyama Roshi and all his students plus Joshin Sakai had a close relationship with Zen Center through the role. Okay. And Iko Roshi also has come to America has come to Zen Center. He was the teacher that I told you about. I think I told you that story. I went to I went to Minnesota. I met him when I went to Japan in 1974. I met him.

[62:19]

He was the Godo at Eheji when I went to visit. And I went to a Shosan ceremony there and he was conducting the Shosan ceremony. And I met him afterwards. And he was very, very low-key, I would say. When I was a kid in Minnesota in the winter which started in October and went to and went to March or April or sometimes May and June. Anyway, during the winter there were no vegetables in Minnesota except for iceberg lettuce in restaurants. Somehow that seems... I don't know how they got the iceberg lettuce there but maybe it grew in Minnesota. But there were no like fresh peas or carrots or anything. Everything was in a can. And particularly they had I remember they had canned peas. And I love canned peas.

[63:20]

Once, you know, cooked or uncooked, I love canned peas. But mostly cooked. And then they would be cooked and butter would be poured over them. So basically it was the butter I was eating. The canned peas were I thought green but actually they were grey. They weren't as green as Tracy's shirt. Tracy's sweater. More like more like Jeremy's, I'd say. A cross between Jeremy's and and Charlie's. And then, I don't know, at some point in my life I ran into I ran into some frozen peas. And they were just shockingly green. And they had this strange taste. Fresh. Somewhat fresh. And then I tasted fresh peas and they were really strange. But then gradually I got used to them and I realized that they actually had a taste all by themselves without any butter on them. But still if I could get some of those grey peas

[64:25]

I'd love them. But anyway Hashimoto Roshi I mean, Narasaki Iko Roshi was like those grey peas. Without putting any butter on him it would be kind of like He was very bland. But he was Hashimoto Roshi's disciple and he was kind of wonderful too in his blandness. He was like, you know, I don't know what he was like maybe he was like just plain Dharma. I don't know. There was nothing like He was pretty much kind of like what you see is what you get. That was the main thing. Nothing extra and that was not that interesting. Anyway, he he came to I met him there at Eheiji and then he came and did a a special training session at the Minnesota Zen Center

[65:25]

and I went to that and he was the one who I told you about that he always got to the Zendo before me. You know, he's this rickety old guy tiny little skinny little rickety guy and he always beat me to the Zendo because, you know, what was the reason he beat me? Remember? What? What? Nothing extra. What? You were doing too many things. I was doing too many things, yeah. I was trying to do a zillion things and he was just like going to Zendo. So when I dropped all the other stuff like him I beat him because he's really slow. when he starts ten minutes ahead of me and it's only like a fifty foot walk he beats me. That was him. And he was the same person who when he came he came here all tired from the trip and I was the abbot his disciples said you know, if you don't tell him to rest he's going to go to Zazen and he's too tired

[66:26]

he'll get sick. So I said Narasaki Roshi, please rest. He said, oh thank you and went to bed. That was him. And he was and Katagiri Roshi took him as his teacher in his later years like the last few years of his life he studied with Narasaki Roshi. Narasaki Roshi Iko was older than Sugen and he just passed away. Sugen Roshi is now 70 as I said and he's the one who said that thing about the mind of an infant. Okay. So that's sort of the story of all those different relationships that are very important to this community and well Buddhism all over the world all over Japan particularly I think Zen Center this Zen Center and Minnesota Zen Center very important this picture. And Oka Sotan is a very important influence in all these people and not the Dharma Master

[67:27]

any of not the major teacher for any of them. That's that's what that's what Tim asked didn't you remember? I'll try to find out his dates. What else you want to know about besides that he was a good boy? What did he say? What did he say? I don't know. Sugen no he when he was at Green Gulch a couple of years ago he gave a series of talks at the end of a series of talks he said that when he was 20 years old 50 years before he went to this series of lectures but he saw Eon and he didn't remember anything except for that one thing you remember. We have to have

[68:33]

the mind of an infant. If we lose it we cannot be Buddha. The mind of the infant we have to have. Now guess what the mind of ready for this? Guess what the mind of an infant is? Huh? It's right here. And what else is it that you've heard before? Suchness. Yeah. No views. No views. So like in the scene guess what there is? The scene. In the herd they're just the herd that's the mind of an infant. The mind of an infant is not thought. This is the infant this is not like you know a four-year-old toddler this is not a one-year-old this is not a six-month-old this is like a newborn. The light is the light. The sound is the sound. That's it. They respond but they don't add or subtract anything.

[69:33]

We need this mind and you need this mind when you listen to the teaching. And in order to listen to the teaching with that mind you have to not have your old views. You stink pot. Who's holding on to your own smart-ass views. You worthless pile of crap. I'm talking to the one who's lost it and is holding on to her own view and saying all these things right now about what's going on. Judging what's happening according to her views or his views. That's who I'm talking to. And that person should be kicked halfway across Tassajar in the rear but not get hurt. Just wake up and find the mind of the infant again so he can be Buddha. That's the way

[70:36]

those Zen masters those guys who everybody ran away from used to treat their disciples who didn't have the mind of the Buddha who didn't have the mind of the infant who is adding something to the situation all the time who don't just let things be simple who make the other people out there. The mind of the infant doesn't have objects. We need that mind that doesn't see other people as objects. We need to find the mind that doesn't see those people as not us who not over there on their own. We need to find that mind. No, it's right about the same time as Baba.

[71:36]

That's the Buddha. He can't stand or walk or sit or lie down. Case 80, by the way of the Blue Cliff Record which I may or may not get to talk about is about this. The monk asked Jajo does the newborn baby have the sixth consciousness or not? And Jajo says like throwing a ball on swift-flowing water and so anyway this mind of an infant is another way to talk about what we've been talking about the whole practice period and it relates to the mind the mind by which you relate to your sensory experience but it's also the mind that you listen to the teaching with. It's the ear you have you listen to the teaching. It's the ear that goes with

[72:42]

you don't have your old views and then if you can hear that way and then you take what you heard in this pure way into yourself and make it your own and you do that hopefully without making it into a nest and you can test to see if you made it into a nest to see if you lost your mind of an infant. So go back and see go back and listen again and see if you lost your old views which are now your new views that you got after you dropped your old views. This sounds hopeless doesn't it? Anyway it gave me an opportunity to tell you this story about our ancestors and again you know like Suzuki said kind of daringly we three are the main the main people responsible for Kishizawa Roshi's teaching I dare to say that this temple we are very lucky

[73:44]

to have such wonderful I mean there's thousands and thousands of Zen priests in Japan every minute and we have this wonderful background here wonderful connection of really fine teachers who taught our teachers who taught our teachers and so on so we're really lucky to have really good really good background I think yeah Do you know about Oka Sotan's teachers? Do I? No Do you know anything about Oka Sotan's teachers? No I don't but I like your questions and they they encourage me to study more and find out more about Oka Sotan and there's so much nice things to find out about and if you guys can find out about this stuff please do matter of fact maybe Tim should go to Japan those people need you learn Japanese along with the other stuff you do like closing those plutonium plants but also do this research okay? You probably can do both So I won't keep you

[74:48]

up late tonight because we have big ceremony tomorrow and you remember the four points right? Loud Loud about your practice about practice and about practice your practice about practice and your practice and also not too obscure huh? not too esoteric right so the esoteric parts of your practice you can ask Ambo San after the ceremony at dinner but during the ceremony during the ceremony the esoterics keep the esoteric stuff in the background bring the exoteric stuff out that we can follow and loudly and about practice not too much theory if possible although I know if you had that I'm partly responsible for you having theories sorry and

[75:53]

another thing that I reason why I want to bring this up was because at the end of his talk besides saying that Sugen Roshi said that Hashimoto Roshi wrote a poem one time when he was 70 years old and the poem was Kamfutsu said that in every action he did he always harmonized heaven and earth Hashimoto Roshi said I'm the same age as Kamfutsu when he wrote that 70 years old but I can't claim that level of attainment however I can say that I have the extreme joy to study to see the Shobogenzo which I have studied all these years wherever I go so we may not

[76:57]

we may not be too good but maybe we can see the Buddhist teaching wherever we go this is kind of the spirit of Hashimoto Roshi May our intention equally penetrate every being and place with the true merit of Buddha's way I bow

[78:12]

to save them divisions are impossible I bow to end them Dharma I bow to enter them Buddha's way is unsurpassable I bow to become it

[78:40]

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