I would like to talk about the six subtle Dharma gates, which are called counting, following, stopping, contemplating, return, and And these are, you know, six ways of looking at this very basic instruction of about having a mind that has no dwelling place. A mind that doesn't dwell no matter what state it's in.

[01:15]

Or no matter what state it doesn't dwell. And one of the things about these six is that I mentioned is that they contain each other. So like the first very basic practice, which is actually, in a sense, appears to be kind of clunky, of counting your breath. And it seems a little bit heavy or gross to have these numbers superimposed on your breathing process or carrying these numbers These numbers, especially like the decimal numbers, one to ten, kind of all that Arabian stuff. All that stuff's going on. And so how can you work with, like, when you're first working with that, it's like, you may not understand that working with something gross, one of the good things about working with something gross is that it purifies you.

[02:28]

of something else? What does working with something gross purify you of? Grossness. Well, grossness, but something else, something different. Getting your own way? Hmm? Getting your own way? Yeah, maybe so. Attachment to the fallen? Yeah, it purifies you of the subtle and of the pure. Of course, we'd rather have a different way of getting purified at the subtle than the gross. Like grandpa, but a little bit more subtle. A transcendent subtle. Well, transcendent subtle is unsubtle. So, number one is kind of a little bit clunky and heavy-duty, these big numbers, and number six is purity. But one of the principles in having a mind that doesn't abide anywhere

[03:33]

is that if you happen to get into a very, you know, you might happen to, you might get into a very subtle, even sublime state someday. It could happen to you, even you. And then, there you'd be, all sublime. And sublime is okay. It's okay as long as you can go from sublime down to the most, you know, unsublime. If you can't go from the most advanced thing you've ever attained back to the beginning, then that advanced state is demonic possession. So, number six is complete purity. And number six, complete purity means you can go back to the most beginning gross practice, which with all this dualism, you know, like I'm following my breath and one, two, three, four, and oh shit, I forgot.

[04:40]

And, you know, get back over there, count that breath, count that breath, tote that bar, lift that veil. You're a lousy Zen student. Oh, no, I'm not. Oh, yes, you are. You're a great Zen student. That's right, I am. No, you're not. Yes, sir. All that kind of stuff that happens to people who count their breath. I've heard about these people. They come and they confess. They confess that they're successful or that they're failures. They confess that they're miserable, lousy, rotten Zen students because they can't count their breath. The reason why they can't count their breath is because they're beating themselves up all the time, getting themselves to follow their breath, and they're fighting back for their freedom from this oppression. of this Zen system which they've imagined and superimposed upon themselves and they're fighting against. It's not funny. This is not funny. Stop that. Can't you laugh even while I'm talking that way? You see?

[05:41]

It works. You see? You get tough enough, people buckle under. Line up and count those breaths. I can get you people to count your breath if I really tried. I wouldn't have any more lousy Zen students if I really put it to you. You'd all be counting your breath perfectly in a few days. But then eventually, there'd be a rebellion. And secretly, when I wasn't looking, people would be totally distracted. They'd think of every number except one to 10. 14, 85, zero, minus six. You know? This is gross. This is not sublime. This is trench warfare. This is... This is ugly. Huh? No, I'm not. I'm not. Really. That's number... That's the first one.

[06:43]

But that's the sixth one. Because the sixth one is pure. It's pure purity. It means you can go back into the trench, into the muck, into the gaining idea again. Because there's no sign in purity of being free of impurity. If there is, that's the worst, that's the most ugly defilement, in a way, is the freedom from impurity. stainless, finally better than other people. Bodhisattva's mind does not abide in such a state. However, such a state might happen. But if you don't abide in it, you can fall from this state of purity right back into number one. So number one contains number six. And number six totally contains number one because it's

[07:48]

perfectly willing to be with number one. And number one proves number six. And number six proves number one. So, The instruction in the Diamond Sutra that a bodhisattva should produce a mind which has no abode, which doesn't depend on anything, on colors, sounds, smells, any kind of mental objects, any kind of state, any kind of samadhi, any kind of trait, doesn't depend on any of those things. And not depending on those things means exactly that you can be any of those things, that you can be in relationship to colors, sounds, smells, and tastes, touchables, means you can go anywhere, be anything, be whatever. is needed to help living beings be released from their abiding in states. You can go into those states with those beings and show them that you're right there with them just as much as they are, and yet, and not any better, and yet not there at all, and neither are they. So, to articulate how that process might go, we have these six subtle dharma gates.

[08:58]

And, you know, like I said, you could do two subtle Dharma gates, three subtle Dharma gates, four subtle Dharma gates. There's millions of ways you could do it. A million subtle Dharma gates. This just happens to be six. Because six is between five and seven. So, the people who aren't in the practice period, like Katie and and Taiyo, they already understand these six subtle Dharma gates perfectly, so we don't have to go over the first ones with them. So we just go right to stopping. Okay? So stopping is like Shakyamuni Buddha sitting still under the Bodhi tree and not moving. Now that, when he first talked that way, you know, it was like that was something he was going to do. And you can practice this stopping on that level.

[10:08]

Really, however, the next three of contemplation and return and purity can be there and actually are there in the stopping, but you may not realize that yet. And if you don't realize that the other three, the succeeding three, are there, then you approach stopping in a dualistic way. And you may sit there thinking, gee, I have now attained stage three of the third subtle dharma gate, the mind is stopped, which is nice. I can now feel what it's like to sit still. And you might think that there's some characteristics of sitting still. When you first get in, the first time you get into having a stopped mind, you might think, oh, this is a stopped mind. You might think it's a stopped mind because of blah, blah, blah. In other words, you might think there is such a thing as a stopped mind.

[11:15]

That's okay. First time you get there, that's probably what you'll think. So the first time you get there, you haven't really realized this mind which doesn't have an abode because you think you're now in a place or a state called stop mind and it has a certain characteristic and that's why that's what it is. It's okay that you feel that when you first arrive. It really isn't that way which you'll see in the later stages but it's okay if you feel that way when you first arrive. So you can just steep yourself in that stopped quality of the mind And then naturally, when you fully feel the quiet, deep tranquility of the mind, naturally, naturally, it occurs to you that this thing is not something in itself.

[12:37]

but actually is something composed of other things. It's not a permanent thing. It starts to occur to you that the very fact that this calm seems different from an agitated, anxious, upset mind, the very fact that it seems to be different is due to it having certain characteristics which are different from the characteristics of a different mind. You start to notice that. You just notice it because you're there and it keeps presenting itself to you and you, you know, you're just sitting there and it keeps coming back and saying, hi, hi, hi. And finally you notice that it's saying, um, I'm calm, this is calm, this isn't upset. This is deep calm, this is deeper calm, this is deeper calm yet, and it's getting deeper because it's different than no shallower.

[13:43]

It starts to reveal that there's some kind of characteristics, which is what's creating the sense of what's happening. And then it just kind of, then it kind of gets presented to you that, well, if this state depends on those characteristics, this state wouldn't be the state if it didn't have those characteristics. The very fact that it has these characteristics is why the state isn't something by itself. And then it also occurs to you that you think that you're over here and the state's over there. And then it occurs to you, you really do think you're over here and the state's over there. And then you start to notice that although you were miserable when you first started practicing the Six Subtle Dharma Gates, and now you're feeling pretty good because you have this really deep tranquility.

[14:48]

And there's a very blissful feeling that comes along with that tranquility. You notice that actually there's a little raccoon there holding up a sign that says, you're miserable. You're still miserable, even though you're in bliss due to this concentration. And then a little squirrel comes over and tells you why you're miserable. And you're miserable because you think you're separate from this calm. You think there's calm in you. And that difference actually disturbs you on another level. Somehow, even though your mind stopped, you're still not, there's still something you haven't understood. So Shakyamuni Buddha, even though, even after he sat still and was able to not move anymore, he still had, he still wasn't liberated. Still he saw birth to death. Still he saw old age, sickness and death and rebirth and around and around and the nausea of this repeated falling into lamentation, woe,

[15:58]

bitching and so on embarrassment still the hassle and anxiety factor was there and he could see it however he wasn't going to move anymore he was going to study no matter what so lesson after lesson hundreds thousands millions trillions of lessons he had that night of how birth and death works this is a stage of contemplation don't have to say okay now i'm calm i'm gonna go contemplate something no you're just there open up the field and the materials comes at you and start telling you these stories stories of your life stories of the universe stories of misery stories of woe stories of birth and death stories of this and that stories of suffering how it arises in other words you start to see how things dependently co-arise. And that's what Buddha saw. This is the contemplation.

[17:03]

You start to see how the exhale is an exhale because there's an inhale someplace. that couldn't be an exhale without an inhale. And you start to notice that they're dependent, and then you notice how they're real closely dependent on each other. And again, you see, oh, exhales are dependent on inhale in many ways. There has to be an inhale for an exhale. You have to have an inhale first before you exhale. And also... And also, and also, and also, and also. And, and, and, and, and. So many connections between inhales and exhales. You don't have to think about that. However, people do sometimes. And they make observations. And when people hear those observations, they think, oh, that's cool. And then they think about that too, which is fine.

[18:10]

Like some people follow their breath and they say, I followed my breath all the way to the end. And at the end of my breath, I found a space. And in that space, I touched the earlobe of God. Then somebody else says, oh, that's cool, I'll try that. Which is fine, I'm not, you know, it's fun. Try it. But that's just one of the stories you might hear when you're practicing or might even experience. Things like that happen, stories, right? And they independently co-arise. So this is the stage of contemplation. Still, however, you're coming up, when you first come up this track or this path, you come in, you're practicing. It's still the karmic point of view. I am here in stage number three, Dharma gate number three.

[19:16]

I'm having a good time and I'm contemplating and I'm learning this stuff. And also, I'm starting to see the relationship between me contemplating this stuff and who i am me contemplating has something to do with who i am i'm a contemplator and i'm a contemplator for these reasons and so on and so forth and as you study this this this more and [...] more all the way to the end of how you do this stuff and how you've attained this state and how now you've calmed your mind and how you also are not contemplating the way things actually work When you do that as much as you can, when you do it all the way, is how much you can. Then you go into the next stage. The mind reverses. As I said, and now there isn't you beforehand. There isn't you and then there are characteristics of you. It isn't like usually there's me and then there's characteristics of me.

[20:22]

First there's Reb and then there's a bald head, blue eyes, 32 teeth, upside-down battleship. You didn't know about that, did you? Mississippi, Minnesota, California, Zen monk, father of Thea the Terrible, and so on, you know? All these things. First there's Rebbe, and then there's all these things. First there's Rev, and then there's Grace, and then there's Tia, and Maya, and Janet, and Bernd, Kerwin, and so on, right? They're all a part of my life, right? They're all not me. That's how I get to be me, by not being them, and so on. But when I get into that all the way, and somehow I'm not, but again, not sort of like me getting into it, but when that stuff just comes up for me and I see that's who I am, then everything turns and then there's not me.

[21:22]

There's just all things coming forward and then there's me. Or there's just all things coming forward. Instead there's my mind thinking of these things. There's all things coming forward and then there's my mind. Then the mind which used to be there thinking of things isn't anything at all. And you realize the total vastness and ungraspability of the mind. Not like an airy, kind of like nothing, but by being everything coming forth and realizing the mind. So the mind, by being so completely supported, is extremely vast and ungraspable. This is the return stage. This is liberation from karma. which is a natural consequence of karma. And if you sit upright and calm in the middle of the karmic show, you see the natural consequences of karma. The natural consequences of karma is that karma transcends itself. And so does everything else.

[22:24]

As bodhisattvas, we're not just concerned about ourselves being liberated from karma, we're concerned with all living beings and rocks and mountains and rivers also being liberated from... Our rocks and rivers don't have karma, but we're concerned with them being liberated from themselves, and they are liberated from themselves. And they're liberated from our idea of themselves. So, like for us, You know, for us it's surprising to hear that mountains can talk to each other. And some of the conversations that mountains have I'll tell you later. But they would surprise us. But mountains would be very surprised if they heard what we think of them. How you doing, Renée?

[23:43]

Fine. And then there's purity, which is the next stage in the process of creating this mind which has no abode. Purity is, now you have to purify yourself of your liberation from egocentric, karmic perspective. You purify yourself of all things coming forth and realizing you. You purify yourself of being realized by everything. And one of the main ways of purifying yourself is you go back into the mode of you realizing things. You go back into the karmic mode, you go back into the gross and subtle forms of karmic mode. So, in sequence you would go back to number one again, So, Suzuki Roshi, I don't know exactly what stage he was in when he recommended this, but one time he, uh, he said in the, in, uh, I believe it was late 1969, he said, or early 1970, before the Tatsara practice period started, he said, let's all count our breath.

[25:04]

I will too. And, um, At that time Zen Center people, you know, were like, some people were like counting their breath, you know, then following their breath and then going into Shikantaza, right? People were getting into Shikantaza as fast as possible. Into the just sitting practice, just sitting practice. In other words, they're getting into the inconceivably vast and immeasurable mind of Zazen as soon as possible. And Zatman Siddhartha said, well, let's just go back to that beginning practice and count our breath. So, someone went into his room probably and said, well, can I count my breath? I mean, can I still do Shikantaza? Do I have to give up Shikantaza to count my breath? I don't know if the person asked that question, but anyway, they got out of Siddhartha Rasi that you can practice Shikantaza and count your breath at the same time. But again, if he had asked, do I have to give up shikantaza to count my breath, I would say, yes, you really do have to give up shikantaza to count your breath.

[26:18]

Now, most people who count their breath, they have not given up shikantaza. Do you know what shikantaza is? Shikantaza is like zazen, real zazen. Counting your breath, you know, if you count your breath like I'm counting my breath, that's not zazen. That's just a concentration practice, right? Zazen is not a concentration practice. Remember that discussion? How you doing? Hmm? You okay? Judas? Yeah. But in order to really count your breath, you have to give up non-dual practice. And in order to practice non-dual practice, you also have to give up non-dual practice. Are you okay?

[27:22]

Everybody okay? So Shikantaza is just sitting? Shikantaza is just sitting, yeah. Shikantaza is just sitting when you've given up just sitting. In other words, Shikantaza is just sitting, but not like just sitting like I'm sitting. Shikantaza is not I'm sitting. That's called I'm sitting practice, which is perfectly good form of delusion. Shikantaza is not delusion. Shikantaza is enlightenment. Shikantaza is just sitting. It's not somebody sitting, it's just sitting. It's not just sitting and I'm just sitting. It's just sitting without I'm just sitting. So to sit without I'm just sitting is to liberate yourself from karma. To take refuge in zazen means to take refuge in the realm of selflessness.

[28:28]

So, in a way, to go do some ordinary dualistic thing, and just to do a dualistic thing, the fact that a dualistic thing is a dualistic thing is liberation from karma. If you have to get away from karma to be non-dual, then that would be dualistic. That would be a really sick form of karma. And you really get it for that one. That's a real intense form of demonic possession. Okay, well. How are you doing? Any questions? Jeanette? So, last week I decided to sort of take an attitude of non-interference. And I was doing that while sitting, so I go to sit and basically not have an agenda, because before I was having an agenda, like I was going to do something while sitting.

[29:45]

So it's very nice to sit there, pretty calm and no problems. And then something... It always comes to this point where sitting, everything's fine, just very comfortable, and then this yucky feeling comes up that says, ew. And I move. I mean, I move in the sense that I move my mind like this. I have to adjust. And even though the adjustments get very subtle, like, well, I just have to, I know I just have to move my head a little bit. So it always comes to that point. Is that... Where is that? Where is that? Wait, I can't... I don't know if it's... I don't know what that is. You're sitting and you feel you have to make some kind of adjustment? No, a feeling of uncomfortableness comes up.

[30:51]

It's somewhere between fear, but it's not like... It's not a rational fear, it's not like a thought of something comes up. You feel, is it an anxiety? Well, it's a very deep sort of like base fear, like I had better come back to moving or it might get dangerous or something like that. So. Sounds like anxiety, sounds like a mild form of torment. Yeah. So I'm just hanging out there minding my own business and then that place comes and I make an adjustment and then ... Yeah, you're just sitting there minding your own business. Yeah. Yeah. That's karma. And so then you get punished for it. But there seems to be like a place of ... non-attachment and non-interfering and just sitting.

[31:57]

There's no such place as non-attachment and non-interfering. Oh. That's not a stopping place then, right? That's not stopping. What's not stopping? Then I misunderstood. I was thinking that stopping is a place of sort of non-interference and non- movement. Just sort of Sitting. Stopping is, yeah, when you stop moving. Right. But it's not a place. It's just that whatever place you're at, you're not moving from that place. No, I don't mean place, like a location. I mean state of mind. I know, I just said, when you said place, I just said it wasn't a place, that's all. State of mind is, you mean a state of mind? That's a place. I mean, the ones you're talking about, because I sense what you're saying, there's a location.

[33:06]

I just want to know what category I'm in. You're in the category of a person who wants to know what category she's in. And it hasn't assigned yourself one out of desperation yet. But you could do that if you want to. If I don't do it or somebody else won't do it, you can do it yourself. But until you do that, you're actually doing just fine. But if you didn't assign yourself, if you refused to assign yourself a place, a category, then you would be doing that But if you can't find a category, it's not because you can't assign it, but you just can't find one that works, that's fine, that's good. And if you can be calm and not be afraid that they're gonna get you for not joining the category assignment game, then you're doing really well.

[34:14]

If you can be calm when, to try not to, to try to avoid assigning yourself to categories to cut your head off To assign yourself to categories, to put a head on top of yourself, you don't need to be in a category. That's why it feels so lost. When you feel lost, then you've just assigned yourself to a category. Then you know where you are again. You've just assigned yourself to a place called lost. But when you don't even know if you're lost, or found, when you don't take either one of those extremes... Then that's stopping. No, that's not stopping. Stopping is just not moving. But again, stopping is not a thing you do. If you make stopping, it really is not a thing you do. If you think stopping is something you do, that's okay, you can think that, but again, that's extra. Stopping is just realizing that your mind is stopped. That's just stillness.

[35:16]

What you're talking about is a more fundamental process of delusion. and that is assigning ourselves to categories. If you don't take the extreme, if you don't say, I'm lost or I'm found, if you don't say, I'm this or that, or I'm not going to play the game, if you don't do any of that stuff, and you think about that, in order to think about that, you have to make that situation an object. As soon as you make it an object, you pull something out from your concept bank, and then you got a place for it, and you found it again. And then you're fine, you've got it, you're gonna get ahold of it and so on. But just before you reached back to find a place you were, when you really didn't know where you were, and you weren't trying to find out where you were, and you hadn't said even that I'm in a place called I don't know where I am, where you really just don't know. And you haven't yet reached for some solace and consolation for that.

[36:20]

You haven't rendered that into a concept. You just really don't know. Then you found this mind of the bodhisattva. You have just found what you've been looking for your whole life. But you didn't find it. You realized it. Because you can't find this mind. But you can realize it. And you realize it by just not veering off into these concepts and these categories. And also, of course, not veering off into avoiding them. But then again, if you step, if you, like I was talking about, what is it, to oscillate or vibrate out of that state back into dualistic thinking, when you come back out, you kind of, there's an effect of being there, which kind of makes you sort of remember that you were someplace and you try to think of where it was and you say, oh, I was lost, or I wasn't in my usual state. You're back in your usual state now, coming up with usual terms about where you were. And then at that time you can get quite scared, you know, of what will happen to you if you go back there or people find out you went there or whatever.

[37:27]

But when you're there, you're not afraid at all because you don't have anything, you know, any station to be afraid of. And in fact, we are there all the time because there's no way we can't be there, because there's no concept by which we can get ourselves out of there or into there. It's our true nature, that's why it's highly recommended. It's a true nature that our mind is basically non-abiding, non-dual, vast, all-embracing and undisturbed. But when we raise up dualism, we don't disturb that basic mind, but in that dualistic situation, we raise up quite a bit of, well, we raise up the world, and you know the kind of stuff that happens in the world of dualism.

[38:31]

Great cruelty is possible once we create dualities. Yes? When you call it our mind, it confuses me when you say mind is all-pervading and Fine, I know, that's why I don't, that's why I didn't say it that way. I said it the way which makes you have to work a little harder. If somebody say our confuses you, then you got to like take the backward step again where words like that won't reach you. Our, my, yours, please, mine. I'm not talking about something He got me. I think Steve was first. A few minutes ago you just said stopping is just realizing the mind has stopped. I guess what I want to ask, is there any way of noticing anything, of being aware of anything, saying the mind has stopped?

[39:39]

Is there any way of noticing or being aware in a non-dualistic way? Yes. What can you say something about that? I don't know. I mean, it seems like the minute that you notice something, that there is a kind of dualistic process going on. You can sort of impute that you've been in a state where the mind is stopped. The minute you, oh, I'm there, well, you're not there. The imputing that you're in a state where the mind is stopped... Is it the same thing what you just talked about? Maybe you're aware of something now. But when I say stopped, I mean two things. One is, I mean that you've realized the fact that the mind is undisturbed. And there's two ways to realize it. Well, not two ways, anyway. The realization that the mind is stopped is not that you have to put yourself in a state of the mind being stopped.

[40:41]

The mind is fundamentally stopped in that the mind, I mean our mind, excuse me, doesn't have any objects. Because mind includes subject and object. Because mind looks at itself. So in that level, mind is totally undisturbed and peaceful. But when the mind construes subject and object as separated, it creates a big disturbance. Well, tiny disturbances up to huge disturbances. All the while, the totality of mind is undisturbed. Okay? Now what's your question? Well, okay, that sounds like it's sort of like intuiting and kind of a substrate. You have to put it in those kind of terms, but how can you notice something, notice something, make an object, can't do it except in language, and still not as neondualistic? I don't see that.

[41:48]

But mind, are you going to say that mind is like a machine for making objects? We have to stop. To have this discussion be fruitful, we have to realize the style of mind. Okay? So, you're bringing up an intense vibratory dynamic. Okay? So now, In order for both of us and everybody else in the room to have an insight now, we have to realize stage number three. Are we having this discussion with a stopped mind? Is the mind tranquil now in this discussion? Maybe it is, but the minute I say... No, don't say maybe it is. I mean, you decide. You get to decide. You get to say yes or no, not maybe. Yes, until I... Yes, until I... Okay.

[42:51]

Yes, until. Okay, fine. Now, what sometimes happens is that you have a little realization of the stop mind. All right? Now, listen very carefully. Okay? Everybody be quiet while I say this, please, including me. You have some realization that the mind is actually quiet and still and tranquil. And then, as I said, something comes up, some realization of subject-object dualism comes up. And you have a question about that, which is good. And when that question arises, it agitates the mind a little. When you first start coming in, oftentimes when you first start coming into this tranquil mind, you come in with a little leaning towards realizing tranquility.

[43:52]

And just now I brought up tranquility again in this discussion because in order for this discussion to be fruitful, in order to answer this question in a way that's going to be helpful, it has to be asked and answered in the context of the mind being stopped. And so I'm bringing up again realizing the stopness for this discussion. I want this actually to be realized in this discussion. And I'm also saying that when you do feel the mind stopped and you start to contemplate, then you have to develop a deeper tranquilization, a deeper calm in order to handle the contemplation. So you come into a certain level of calm, enough so that naturally the mind throws up contemplative topics.

[44:58]

It's out of the health of the stability of your mind that your mind says, OK, I can handle the disturbance of some questions. But at that very moment, you can't sacrifice your composure for this contemplation. Otherwise, the contemplation will go awry. You won't be able to successfully discern what's going on and you'll lose your composure. So at that point, you have to continue to realize the composure and stay quiet while the contemplation starts. So that's an example of number three, you're in the stage of calm and As calm becomes deep enough, it naturally throws up contemplative issues. But then, so you see, the fulfillment of number three produces number four. But also, number four has to develop number three.

[46:05]

So as you go into number four, you have to keep deepening the calm and working on the calm as you ask the question. Only people who have some calm ask these questions. But these questions must be continually harmonized with the calm. So now as we come in, otherwise the discussion will not be fruitful. If we can stay calm, we will be able to answer this question. And then this is a time to be calm and realize the stopped mind with your breath. Now your breath will be helpful. To be with your breath in a very calm way, in a very quiet way. And then now let's hear his question, if you're ready to ask the question again.

[47:07]

How is it possible to notice anything and still stay in the state of calm mind? Stop mind, not calm mind. It's calm mind fixed. Stop mind. Okay, now stop. How is it possible to stay in the stop mind and contemplate or be aware of anything? Is that your question? Okay. Number one, I would say, drop the stopped. Drop the stay in. We don't need to talk about staying in any state. Alright? So the question can be rephrased, how is it possible to have stopped mind with contemplation of anything? And in a sense, it is not possible to have the stopped mind with contemplation of something outside.

[48:26]

Because if you're contemplating an object and it's outside, it disturbs the mind. So, Another way to say it, is it possible to have the stopped mind and have what seems to be the contemplation of something, not really be the contemplation of something, but be, in a sense, a mirage? Are you calm? That took it away. Really? That took your calm away? Yeah. Well, take it easy now. The calm part of the mind or the calmness of the mind is the mind which doesn't have objects. However, if you think that the state of not having objects is a state where there are no objects, the way you think about having no objects, that is disturbing.

[49:38]

The mind can think of objects while at the same time the mind having no objects. The drama of subject-object can occur in a mind which is not split. Realizing the calmness of mind, the stopped quality of mind, contains the realization that the mind is not split into two. Then when you think about the mind not being split into two, then you could say the mind had just been split into two. And then you feel upset again. However, simultaneous with that is the calmness of mind where that particular function of mind does not reach and does not disturb And part of the way that the mind is undisturbed, part of the way it demonstrates its profound stillness, is that it can incorporate and allow the mind to think of objects.

[50:56]

In other words, the test of a bodhisattva, whose mind does not have an abode, is that a bodhisattva can have a conversation with somebody, as we say, in the weeds. in duality can use these terms and not be fooled because remembering the source of the words is non-duality. But non-duality is not some other place from the world that we call duality. If it were, it would be another kind of duality. Non-duality must be completely present everywhere and nowhere. So it must be able to be present and functioning through this dualistic discussion. And if there's any disturbance, and there is in dualistic discussions, the mind which has no abode is there and undisturbed. And it can contemplate with calmness

[52:12]

the process of dualistic thinking which creates disturbance. The Buddha sat there, sat still with a stopped mind and contemplated, in that stopped mind contemplated calmly the process, the actual process, not theoretical, but actual processes of how the mind disturbs itself creates birth and death over and over. He actually saw how that happened and saw it how seeing the way it happened reverses the whole process. But he didn't think of it just in his head, it was actually enacted right at the same time as the contemplation. So it is possible for non-dualistic processes to go on at the same time as dualistic processes. If it weren't, they wouldn't be non-dualistic. If non-dualism had to get away from dualism, it would be dualistic. I guess what it seems like is that it seems reasonable to say that the two processes can go on at the same time, but we can't really ever know, can't grasp the non-dualistic part, because in doing so... That's right.

[53:27]

You cannot grasp it. It can never be... The non-dualistic process can never be an object of consciousness. You can talk about the non-dualistic process, but that's not the non-dualistic process, that's just... That's just the dualistic process of talking about it. In other words, the stopped mind cannot be an object of knowledge. It's going to follow, because that's the non-dualistic process, really. It's the whole thing, it isn't an individual. If you mean the stopped mind being the stopped mind of the non-dual mind, it cannot be the object of consciousness. Consciousness, there's no consciousness in this illumination. This whole process is not accessible to consciousness. This process is the nature of conscious process. The nature of conscious process is not an object of conscious process. It is the way conscious process works. It is not known. What is known

[54:30]

What can be recognized or known is just something that's working with the dualistic deluded mind. Nirvana is not an object of knowledge. However, nirvana is knowledge. Nirvana is real knowledge, is knowledge of reality. But nirvana is not an object of knowledge and nirvana doesn't have an object of knowledge. Nirvana is the reality of the processes of beings having objects of knowledge. And having objects of knowledge is a process of samsara. Viewing reality as an object is cyclic existence and misery. The reality of the process of psychic existence of misery is nirvana. And there is, nirvana has nothing, absolutely nothing by which you can tell the difference between it and the cycle of birth and death.

[55:43]

And the cycle of birth and death, there's nothing about it by which you can tell the difference, show how it's not nirvana. How nirvana is not it. That's the same thing as saying a mind which has no abode. It's a mind which has no crutches. It's a mind that has no devices by which to be kind. Therefore it has no thoughts in it, right? It has no thoughts in it. Thoughts. Yeah, no thoughts reach it, but it reaches all thoughts. Good. So, did you understand six little Dharma gates now? So this is anyway a way to open up this non-abiding mind through working with your breath. And this conversation I just had with Steve, that this could be, that could have been a meditation on your breath.

[56:52]

As you were watching, as we were talking, it's a way to meditate on your breath. Not the usual way, the usual idea you have of meditating on your breath. But breath was there all the way. We were using our breath to have the conversation. And I was endeavoring to practice, in particular I was endeavoring to practice stopping, contemplating, and If we could work on that contemplation long enough, the return, the reversal would have happened in that Steve and I and all of you would have made this turn of realizing that we're all bringing forth ourself. I mean, all of you are bringing forth me and vice versa. It happens in this process of watching how the dualistic world comes up. In the dualistic world to watch how the dualistic world comes up. And it happens.

[57:56]

I mean, I didn't realize. It's happening. But it's not an object of knowledge. It's not something which is out there. Like it says in the Self-fulfilling Samadhi, then the realization and the practice would be to look at each other. But this doesn't happen because this is unconstructedness and stillness. In stillness, When you're really quiet with things, you're not messing with them. When you're really quiet and present with things, when you're quiet and present, you can't be quiet and present and sort of say, okay, I gotcha. Or quiet and present and I don't have you. There's no, you know, something's happening, but there's not something's happening and I'm happening. or it's happening, or I got it, or I don't have it.

[58:59]

It's too close and too uninterfering for any kind of that messing around to happen. And it's very intense and vibrating around there and changing so fast, it's very hard to just stay there and not interfere. Very hard not to, and constantly the mind flinges away from there and goes into some place where you can use things and then and then you're anxious and then it's a nice wait once you're anxious it's pretty hard then to not interfere with anxiety but again once you're anxious then the thing to do is what you can be completely anxious Be completely anxious means not interfering with the anxiety. But it's pretty hard not to interfere with anxiety, especially if you want to be calm.

[60:06]

And to be completely anxious takes a lot of energy because, you know, it's very high energy. Anxiety is high energy because, you know, well, most people don't get strangled in a relaxed way, right? Some people do. Just, okay, go ahead. Or being smothered, you know, smothered. All right, okay, just no more air. Okay, let it go. Relax. It's hard. Now if you sort of go one, two, three, this is gonna be the last time you're gonna breathe, okay? Get ready for this. One, two, this, one, you're gonna go on and go, exhale or inhale. Okay, exhale, now this is gonna be the last one. Let it out, there's not gonna be another one. Okay, ooh. We do that eventually. But usually you have to work up to it for a while. So I would suggest start right now working up to that last one. You get to choose? You get to choose? You do choose. You finally say, this is it, and then you go, that's one. You've had it.

[61:19]

And it's a little painful. But it's more painful to take another breath, so you just do this last one. Now, if somebody's going to smother you, and you know that's it, and they give you a few minutes warning, then you're going to go with anxiety or you're going to relax? Relax. You can take your choice about that, too. But in the end, anyway, you will relax. So, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. So, relaxation is pretty important, isn't it? Oh, yes. It's very important. I think Renee was first. Oh, wait a second. Steve had his hand raised and then it was Liz. Sorry, you're next, Liz. Just as you were having this conversation, I was...

[62:29]

realizing that lately I have touched some stillness and felt that anxiety, and more and more it's felt like the sitting has been kind of indescribable, and that it's taking away my words. And then I realized, well, that's just making it familiar again by putting this label of this experience was taken away. Yes. But that's what it feels like. Well, yeah, well, that's... But I can't... It's true in that realm of using words to try to... In the realm of sitting, no words reach it, including no words. No words also don't reach it. No words reach it, plus also quotes no word don't reach it either. But sometimes when people come back from the real sitting, they say, no words.

[63:34]

The words don't reach it, but people who come back speak. They do speak. Buddha spoke. Buddha mostly spoke. Now, he had miraculous powers. He could, like, beam light, and sometimes he did. Or had his long tongue, you know, that goes rolling out long distances, you know, and does all the stuff at the end. He had these other powers which he could use. But those were just to get people's attention. Those were not his teaching. His teaching was words. Words. So when they come back out of the... When the bodhisattva realizes the mind which has no abode, then the bodhisattva speaks. Now the bodhisattva sometimes goes like this, but this is speaking. Because when bodhisattva goes like this, Bodhisattva knows people will convert this into words. Right? There's a rebel over there waving his hands, they say. Or whatever, what do you say?

[64:39]

Words you say. Weird. Huh? Weird. If you don't say anything. He says, what if you don't say anything? How do you do that? You have a word called, I don't say anything. George is sitting and saying, I'm not going to say anything. No, what if words just don't come up? Well, how would you know they would come up if you didn't have a word? Huh? Tell me how that would happen. If you see words not coming up and you say, no words came up. You've got this little deck here, you know. I didn't know it until you asked the question. So not only did he have words, but his words were in response to my words. But he didn't knock my words. I said some words. Who knows what I said? I said some words. He heard me say something and he converted it into what he thought I said. And then after that he said, no words. And then he tells us, what if there's no words? The guy's talking away non-stop about no words. People do that. They also be silent about no words.

[65:44]

Or they also be silent about words. But people are always talking, basically. Except, like I say, in these special cases of trance, you know, organic brain disease, accidents, and what do you call it? Comas and stuff. Otherwise, you are nonstop talking to yourself. You never stop. Because seeing Kerwin, I didn't, you know, I don't just sit here. I see Kerwin and Leslie. I don't just, like, sit here and be like, these things are happening to me. I fight back. Kerwin, Leslie, Martha, wedding ring. You know, I got defenses from the world. I'm not just going to sit here and be inundated by the cosmos. I'm an artist. I've got my equipment to protect myself from chaos. I use words. Don't you? Some people say they don't, but they're liars. And they're not like mean-spirited liars.

[66:47]

They're just liars because they don't know what they're doing. Everybody is all the time talking. Now you say, what about the silent one? Well, the silent one is not talking, but that's not somebody. That's the Bodhisattva who has no mind of no abode. However, I say when they come back from that abode, when they express that abode, they talk. The Buddha talks. Shakyamuni means the quiet one of the Shakya clan. He was quiet. There is a quiet place, a quiet still place. But that's not... where people are. That's where Buddhas are. And Buddhas aren't people. Buddhas are not people. The fact of being a person is Buddha. See the difference? People are miserable, anxious talkers who take themselves seriously. That's a person.

[67:48]

But when a person doesn't take that process seriously, when a person doesn't take the anxiety and the word seriously, and really let themselves fully be this anxiety, then Buddha is realized. But it's hard to, you know, to not take yourself seriously when you take yourself seriously. When you take yourself seriously, it's hard to just say, okay, fine, I take myself seriously, so I'm on a trip, you know. So I'm miserable and anxious because I take myself seriously. Okay, fine. I'll accept responsibility for that. Well, full responsibility? Well, I don't know about that. Little responsibility. But to take full responsibility, you become Buddha. It's very difficult to take full responsibility. That's hard. Becoming Buddha is not easy or hard. It is spontaneous and effortless. It is absolutely, 100% effortless to be Buddha.

[68:55]

But the beings who become Buddha are like us, and we are extremely effortful. Buddhists are just like us before they're Buddhists, okay? We are effortful, anxious beings. That's what everybody's like just before they're Buddha. Just the moment before they're Buddha, they're like that. And when you're completely and effortful, totally effortful, anxious being, when you're that way completely, then spontaneously, effortlessly, you realize Buddhahood. But you've heard me say this before, excuse me. That's purity. To be yourself completely. Samantha showed me how to tell what key songs are in. So I have a pitch pipe, but now I can use my pitch pipe. But I forgot my pitch pipe and my sheet music. So I don't know. I can't use my pitch pipe. But since I'm not going to lead the song tonight, it doesn't matter too much.

[70:05]

Samaya's going to lead us tonight. Her favorite song. Right, Samaya? Okay. No? Kia? Will you lead us in Maya's favorite song? Would you tell her? I think we have to work on this for a while. Well, I... You mean, can we start now? Are you ready, man? to enter the Dharma realm? I'm ready for a song. I've got plenty of nothing. Martha? I've got plenty of nothing. Nothing's plenty for me. I've got plenty of nothing. And nothing's ready for me.

[71:17]

Well, Martha, will you want to do a solo? That's all I know. Okay. That's all I know. Okay. Una, would you stand up please? Party? What? Sure, you can sit. Can you stand? Would you sing it to us? Would you sing it to us, Una? Okay, let's listen to Eunice sing us the song. Okay. Okay. Alright, one more time.

[72:20]

I think this is the second verse. I've got the sun, I've got the moon. I've got the sun, I've got the moon. I've got the city, I've got the sea. But with plenty of plenty, got to pray all the day. Got to lock the door. Pray somebody's going to rise. One day they're making more and more sure. What was the word? I don't know. I got no lock on the door, that's no way to be. They can't shield the rock from the floor. That's okay with me, cause I think they'll learn pride like the star in the sky. I've got my, got the floor.

[73:21]

Got my man. I was just playing nothing. Got to pray all the day. Faith. I was just playing. You sure got to worry. Had to keep the devil away. Away. I ain't afraid of that hell. That's no way to be. Um... It's like, well, that's okay with me, because I... So would you learn that man, that song? Please, please learn it. May I read this?

[74:54]

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