I think you can in Heart Sutra, right? And somewhat remember what I thought it was about? Heart Sutra is what we call Mahayana Sutra. Very important Mahayana Sutra. And tonight you have also another very important Mahayana Sutra called the Sama-Nirmatana Sutra. And you have Chapter 5 there? Chapter 5? Okay, so this is another Mahayana Sutra. So let's chant this chapter too. The question was in Sarvabhaji... And then Bodhisattva, Sarvabhaji, questioned Bhagavan, Bhagavan, when he said,

[01:00]

Bodhisattvas are wise with respect to the secrets of mind, thought and consciousness. Bhagavan just how are Bodhisattvas wise with respect to the secrets of mind, thought and consciousness? For what reason does the Tathagata designate a Bodhisattva as wise with respect to the secrets of mind, thought and consciousness? The Bhagavan replied to the Bodhisattva, Vishravamati, Vishravamati, you are involved in asking this in order to benefit many beings, to bring happiness to many beings, out of sympathy for the world, and for the sake of the welfare, benefit and happiness of many beings, including gods and humans, your intention in questioning the Tathagata about this subject is good, it is good, therefore Vishravamati. Well, I will describe for you the way Bodhisattvas are wise with respect to the secrets of mind, thought and consciousness. Vishravamati, whatever type of sentient being there may be in this secular existence

[02:05]

with its six kinds of beings, those sentient beings manifest the body and arise within states of birth, such as egg-born or womb-born, moisture-born or spontaneously born, initially independent upon three types of appropriation, the appropriation of the physical sense powers associated with the support and the appropriation of previous positions, which proliferate conventional designations with respect to signs, names and concepts, the mind which has all seeds, ripens and develops, increases and expands in its operations, although three types of appropriation exist in the form realm, appropriation is not too cold in the formless realm, Vishravamati consciousness is also called the appropriating consciousness because it holds and appropriates the body in that way, it is called the basis consciousness because there is the same establishment and abiding within those bodies, thus they are wholly connected and thoroughly connected, it is called mind because it collects and accumulates form,

[03:07]

sound, smell, taste and tangible objects, Vishravamati, the six-fold collection of consciousness, the eye consciousness, ear consciousness, nose consciousness, tongue consciousness, body consciousness and mind consciousness, arises depending on and abiding in that appropriating consciousness and the eye consciousness arises depending on an eye in a form in association with consciousness, functioning together with that eye consciousness and the sexual mental consciousness arises at the same time having the same objective reference, Vishravamati, the ear consciousness and nose consciousness, the tongue consciousness and the bodily consciousness arise depending on an ear and nose and tongue and a body in association with consciousness and sound, smell, taste and tangible functioning together with nose, ear, tongue and bodily consciousness and the sexual mental consciousness arises at the same time having the same objective reference if there arises one eye consciousness there arises together with it only one mental consciousness

[04:11]

which has the same object of activity as the eye consciousness likewise if two, three, four or five consciousnesses arise together then there still arises together with them only one conceptual mental consciousness which has the same object of activity as the five-fold collection of consciousness Vishravamati, for example, if the causal conditions for the arising of one wave in a great flowing river are present then just one wave will arise if the causal conditions for two waves are many waves are present then multiple waves will arise then the river's own continuity will not be broken it will never be entirely stopped if the causal conditions for the arising of a single image in a perfectly clear round hair are present then just one image will arise if the causal conditions for the arising of two images or many images are present then multiple images will arise however that round hair will not be transformed due to the nature of the image they will never be fully linked

[05:12]

Vishravamati, just as it is with water and air if depending upon and abiding in the appropriating consciousness or causal conditions for the simultaneous arising of one eye consciousness are present then just one eye consciousness will arise one time if the causal conditions for a single arising of up to the five-fold assemblage of consciousness are present then up to that five-fold assemblage of consciousness will also arise one time Vishravamati, it is like this Bodhisattvas who rely on knowledge of the system of doctrine and abiding knowledge of the system of doctrine are wise with respect to the secrets of mind, thought, and consciousness however, it is required that designated Bodhisattvas are deemed wise with respect to the secrets of mind, thought, and consciousness if it is not only because of destiny designated those Bodhisattvas are deemed wise in all ways Vishravamati, those Bodhisattvas, wise in all ways do not perceive their own internal appropriators they also do not perceive an appropriating consciousness

[06:15]

but they are in accord with reality they also do not perceive a basis nor do they perceive a basis consciousness they do not perceive accumulations nor do they perceive mind they do not perceive an eye nor do they perceive a form nor do they perceive an eye consciousness they do not perceive an ear nor do they perceive a sound nor do they perceive an ear consciousness they do not perceive a nose nor do they perceive a snout nor do they perceive a nose consciousness they do not perceive a tongue nor do they perceive a face nor do they perceive a tongue consciousness But they are in accord with reality, and these bodhisattvas are said to be wise with respect to the ultimate. the ultimate as also being wise with respect to the secrets of mind, thought and consciousness.

[07:19]

Vishala Mahindra says, ìBodhisattvas are wise with respect to the secrets of mind, thought and consciousness. When the Dvaita designates bodhisattvas as being wise with respect to the secrets of mind, thought and consciousness, he designates them as such for this very reason. And the Bhagavan spoke this first, ìIf the appropriating consciousness be then subtle, all can see. Flowing like a river, we can see that as a child, that would not be right. Thus I have not taught this to children.î And this completes the fifth chapter of Vishala Mahindra. I wanted to just make a comment that if you look on your reading list, there is a text written by a man named Thilo Stipatsky, called ìCentral Conception of Buddhism, the Concept

[08:26]

of Dharmaî, and I put it under the chair of Vada, or the vehicle of a listener, a Veda Vada. But he wrote another book, which I didnít put on the reading list, which you can add under the Mahayana section, by Stipatsky, called ìVedas Logicî. That text has a discussion of the different phases, the three wheels, the three turnings of the Dharma wheel, and it introduces the Mahayana, the Mahayana teachings about cognition, about mind functions and zones. So you can add that to the reading list. So we just had another Mahayana scripture, and I wondered if you noticed how you felt

[09:41]

about it. Did you notice any difference, or what the differences were between the Heart Sutra and this Sutra? What differences did you notice? What similarities? Yes. Maybe what similarities did you notice, first of all? The emptiness teaching. The emptiness teaching, yes. How is that expressed in Heart Sutra? In the context of emptiness, no eyes, no ears. So another way to say that in the context of emptiness, the Bodhisattva does not perceive eyes, ears, mouth, tongue, body, mind, sense, sense, smell, touch, taste, tangible, unconsciousness, we are conscious of this, and so on. They donít perceive these things, or the apprehension of these. Thatís in the Heart Sutra. And thatís also in this scripture, right? Thatís a similarity, thatís a difference. It just says, in that place, no fear exists.

[10:46]

It says that, yeah. And this one doesnít talk about consequences, but it does talk about consequences. Yes, it does. It talks about consequences. It just doesnít mention that thereís no fear. It does talk about consequences. What consequences does it talk about? Thereís two. Whatís the consequence thatís mentioned in both? Wisdom. Wisdom, yeah. So the first one is talking about that the Bodhisattva was practicing wisdom, so when they see this way, then they attain the perfection of wisdom. Prasannaparamita. And all Bodhisattvas relying on this, they attain much fullness and enlightenment, nirvana. And then, in the second scripture, it says, ìThe Bodhisattvas are wise if they know the first part of the scripture, but to be wise in all ways, they need to know the second part.î So it also talks about when they know the second part, then they are wise in all ways.

[11:50]

Did you get that? Any questions about that one? About this one? Yes, sir. What was the point of difference? That wasnít the point of difference. Was that the point of difference? Yes. Here it says, ìIf two, three, four, or five consciousnesses arise together, then theyíre together with only one conceptual mental consciousness.î That seems like a different idea. A different idea from ours. Itís a different idea. What kind of an idea is it? Versus the kind that are in the Heart Sutra. Whatís the difference between those ideas? Can you articulate that? It just seems like itís absent in the Heart Sutra. Okay, so itís different in the sense that itís in this one and itís not in the Heart Sutra.

[12:56]

And what is it thatís in the Heart Sutra? The Heart Sutra uses similar words, though. But whatís the difference in the way the word uses? The Heart Sutra said ìmind consciousness, too.î Whatís the difference between the Heart Sutra brings up mind consciousness and mind consciousness is brought up here? I donít know. You donít know? Well, maybe Martha will say something. Actually, itís the first time Iíve read that, so Iím not... But it seems like in the Mahayana, the Bodhisattva isnít perceiving. Thereís not duality. In the Ayurveda sense, thereís a perception of no eyes, no ears, no... Thereís some kind of change towards the end, where the Bodhisattva is not perceiving something. In the Mahayana, the Bodhisattva is not perceiving something. Yeah. It is not the Self and the perception of something else. In the Heart Sutra, it sounds like the Bodhisattva is not perceiving something. And in this text, it sounds like when the Bodhisattva is perceiving the ultimate,

[13:58]

the Bodhisattva is not perceiving something else. But in the first part of the chapter, theyíre talking about... Theyíre not saying that the Bodhisattva does perceive things, but theyíre saying that the Bodhisattva understands how perception works. The first part of the chapter is explaining how perception works, and also implying that when the Bodhisattva understands this material, then theyíre wise. Right? But first of all, the Bodhisattva asked the Buddha, ìHow are Bodhisattvas wise?î The Buddha said, ìTheyíre wise like this.î And he told him how the mind works. For example, that whatever sense consciousness arises, thereís also mind consciousness. And so on. So he explained how consciousness works, and he said, ìWhen Bodhisattvas know this, then theyíre wise with respect to mind, thought, and consciousness. From mindís respect to the secrets, or the intimacies of mind, thought, and consciousness. However, theyíre not wise in all ways. And when theyíre wise in all ways,

[15:01]

then they donít perceive these things, any of this stuff. But, he also says that they know about this earlier stuff. The Heart Sutra doesnít say that they know this earlier stuff. It doesnít say so. However, itís somewhat implied that they know it because Avalokiteshvaraís meditating on the Five Skandhas. Heís meditating on the description of how consciousness arises and how experience is composed. So heís meditating on an analysis of experience. But the Heart Sutra doesnít explain the analysis. It doesnít say how the Five Skandhas are interrelated. And also he sees that the eighteen elements are empty. He sees that the twelve sense doors are empty. He sees that. So the Bodhisattva is analyzing experience into these different categories.

[16:02]

And therefore, they can see the emptiness. They wouldnít see the emptiness of these things if they werenít already given the things. But the Heart Sutra doesnít tell you how to find these things or how these things work together. Because it doesnítÖ First of all, because the Bodhisattvas already are doing this. So, it goes to these people who are already watching, who are already wise with respect to mind, thought and consciousness. And then it pushes them just to go beyond that. To step forth from there into perfect wisdom. But it doesnít tell you how to get stationed in the first conceptual level. This Sutra shows you a way to get stationed in the first level. Not just tell you about the first level and then tell you to go beyond it. But it tells you about the first level. It teaches you about the first level. And it tells you even some more things about the first level. Because it pushes you beyond.

[17:06]

And so the first part of Chapter 5 is exactly teaching a conceptual approach to wisdom. And it says if you understand the first part, you are wise. The second part teaches, I would say, non-conceptual wisdom. I wouldnít say a non-conceptual approach because even approach is conceptual. It teaches non-conceptual wisdom. So they donít perceive eyes, ears and so on, or colors, sounds or smells. They donít perceive these things. In other words, they see the emptiness of it. They see the ultimate. But they see the ultimate of these things. They see the ultimate of color. They see the ultimate of sound. So they do see these things. And then, based on that, they see the emptiness of these things. And in seeing the emptiness of them, they donít perceive these things. And also, thereís an instruction about how to see these things.

[18:12]

How to actually be able to study these consciousnesses. The Heart Sutra also doesnít explain because it starts explaining them. Itís a phrase, and then we run back into his actual approach again. So if you would ask, if you hear, ìAvalokiteśvara was practicing Prajnaparamita and saw that all five aggregates are empty.î If you would ask the Heart Sutra, ìWell, how do you meditate on how do you see the five skandhas empty? What are the five skandhas?î It wonít tell you. Thatís my mistake. Actually, I have to go back to the Heart Sutra. God, I just donít think that makes sense. But somebody else has said, ìNo, you donít have to. You donít have to. When you hear about the five aggregates being empty, and you want to know what they are, so that you can meditate on them and find out that theyíre empty, actually all youíve got to do is give up your conceptual approach

[19:13]

to finding out how to do this practice and youíll be great. So you donít actually have to learn what the five are. You donít have to learn how to do it. And we, right now, we have had the evidence that some people say, ìI canít. I canít do it.î For those people, okay, we have this. Now, in every teaching of the Abhidharma, so that they can see the Abhidharma and then see that thatís empty. The other reason for having this teaching is that some people who leap into emptiness improperly understand. They donít really understand emptiness because they think that emptiness all these things, the non-perception of it, means theyíre not there. But theyíre not there means

[20:16]

because if they werenít there there would be no emptiness of them. So they actually are there and you are perceiving them and then based on perceiving them you realize the emptiness and then when you realize the emptiness you donít perceive them. Thatís kind of a basic suggestion to me about how sometimes, often, many, many, many times the Buddha, in order to teach people non-conceptual wisdom, which is the Buddhaís basic wisdom, but the Buddha doesnít really have a wisdom which is knowing something separated, which knows something separated by some concept. Itís an intimate wisdom with no conceptual separation in it. Itís a non-dual wisdom which realizes the non-duality of everything. If thereís a dualistic understanding

[21:16]

of non-duality itís really incomplete. We have to have a non-dual understanding of non-duality. Yes? Does that mean that when oneís aware of or seeing to the emptiness that one wouldnít be there wouldnít be any kind of separate awareness that one would notice? Right. There wouldnít be any awareness separate from what the awareness knows. There wouldnít be a separation when you understand the ultimate emptiness. Because the emptiness, one of the basic meanings of emptiness is that the separation is insubstantial, is an emptiness. So youíre able to say ìOh, look at this, and thatís not right.î When you can say ìOh, look at this,î you can talk like that coming from a place where thereís no sense of this being separate from the looker. But you can say that.

[22:18]

The Buddha actually did talk like that, thatís the point. First he talked in a way that sounded dualistic because people just couldnít leap into his non-dualism. So he taught them a dualistic approach to not realizing non-duality. So the Perfection of Wisdom Sutra, the Bodhisattva asked the Buddha ìFrom where did the Bodhisattva set forth into the Perfection of Wisdom?î And the Buddha says ìHe set forth from the triple world.î He set forth from the dualistic world into the realization of non-duality. So thatís when he set forth. But youíre already in that world, so you can set forth right now. So they talk about climbing, as you climb to the top of the hundred-foot pole and you step off. Another expression heís in, well youíre already at the top of the hundred-foot pole, all you have to do is step now. But some people just canít get it

[23:20]

so theyíve got to give them a hundred-foot pole, a hundred-foot Abhijani pole. And they learn all this stuff about how consciousness works and when you learn it theyíre wise. When youíre at the top of the pole and you climb the pole youíre wise. Now if you donít climb the pole youíre not wise. The sutra in his chants says bodhisattvas are wise when they climb to the top of the pole of the teachings of how mind thought and consciousness operate. Youíre wise because you did the studying and understand correctly. Now you can step off that and not perceive the pole or the distance to the ground or how to step. How do you step? How you step is part of the climbing the pole. You get to the top of the pole youíre not asking anymore about how to do anything. Youíre done with that. Now you step. But if you didnít climb the pole youíre not wise. So if youíre standing now where you are and you donít feel like climbing the pole youíre not wise. However you can go from your unwise state

[24:21]

directly into wise in all ways by just stepping off here. Because youíre actually on top of a 100 foot pole. Youíre on top of a 100 foot pole of everything youíve learned so far. And based on this everything that youíve learned all the things youíve learned to whatever level of analysis youíve practiced thatís where you step off from. But again the majority of Buddhist students that we hear about historically they werenít ready for that so they taught them this conceptual approach. They say that there were Bodhisattvas who were there at the time who understood the immediate non-conceptual wisdom. And Buddhists said there it is and they realized it. But the less developed people got the conceptual approach. Or they saw a conceptual approach and they used it. But in the end they also had to

[25:21]

to finish the course you have to shift to a non-conceptual mode and actually that is that final step is in the earlier scriptures. This is one of the large sutras the high sutra is 154 characters I donít know how many slokas in the high sutra this is I donít know how many slokas the high sutra is the sloka is 34 syllables so the high sutra is probably 10 slokas 20 slokas slokas are a verse line in the transcript so this is 25,000 slokas so it is a much bigger version of the high sutra and she was looking through the storage areas around Green Gulch and she found several copies of chapter 16 chapter 22 of this book and chapter 16

[26:26]

starts off by saying and further to Bodhi the great vehicle of the Bodhisattva the great being is the four foundations of mindfulness and it goes through in this Mahayana sutra it goes through the four foundations of mindfulness and itís almost a direct quote from the original early teaching of the Buddha almost a direct quote to a great extent basically I think itís probably a direct quote itís just like a different translation itís just that at the end of the public there is at the end of the instruction of how to conceptually approach wisdom then the Buddha says and all this through non-apprehension but even even before that final line is put in if you look at the original text

[27:34]

you can see that actually the last phase of the Buddhist conceptual approach in the early teachings the last phase I would say to you is actually the non-conceptual phase itís actually in the early sutra so the Mahayana in one sense wants to bring something out and show something which most people didnít see and it also wants to stay connected to the Buddhaís early teaching and this this sutra actually brings out the early teaching and adds something that the Mahayana can also just point out that the teaching of emptiness is already in the early teaching so I can point out to you whether you agree with me or not but I see and I can show you what I think the Mahayana teaching is in the early teaching and this chapter of the Samyama Sutra says that actually the third the third turning of

[28:34]

the wheel the ultimate teaching is actually the definitive ultimate teaching is actually found in all the other scriptures just that most people couldnít see it itís actually in there so the Buddha for some people teaches the conceptual approach and then when theyíre ready he teaches the non-conceptual and sometimes he doesnít tell them heís teaching it itís there and sometimes because he doesnít tell them itís there later people see it and all this by the way through non-apprehension of the list through not perceiving any of this through not grasping any of this so this sutra adds that in after basically quoting the conceptual approach now it doesnít when he quotes the conceptual approach he doesnít say in emptiness and then say no no no to the conceptual approach he just gives the conceptual approach and then he just says and this whole

[29:34]

conceptual approach they practice this whole conceptual approach without grasping it which means they donít perceive it but they practice it and they get skillful at it and then when theyíre really skillful at it they donít grasp it theyíre still doing it but now theyíre completely doing it because thereís no separation itís not just now itís not itís not just now theyíre practicing buddhism but not just buddhism as they perceive it theyíre perceiving buddhism theyíre practicing buddhism without perceiving buddhism of course theyíre also perceiving buddhism and based on perceiving buddhism and now complete the practice by not perceiving buddhism and if the teaching is an avidharma teaching then this is mahayana avidharma and thatís what the sangha nirmachana thatís the way it teaches it sets up

[30:35]

these conceptual approaches and then it teaches you how to remove the conceptual underpinnings or it teaches you the conceptual approach and then it gives you little signs by which you can understand the conceptual approach so again it teaches you the conceptual approach but in order to understand the conceptual approach in order to have a meaningful conceptual approach it also has to give you signs by which you can interpret the conceptual approach so that itís meaningful and so you use these signs to understand the teaching and then once you understand the teaching then the next phase is it teaches you how to take the signs off the things which you understand by which you understood it gives you a conceptual approach to how to dismantle the conceptual approach it gives you a conceptual

[31:35]

approach and it gives you a conceptual approach about how to take away the weight of the conceptual approach and then you understand these things in all ways so again to go through in detail a little bit more detail now on the four foundations of mindfulness and hereís a little chart for you to relate my little scenario for this so in

[32:50]

the early teachings not the first teaching but you know in the teaching during the historical buddhist lifetime one of his most important scriptures is called the Satipatthana Sutra or the Smritipatthana Sutra the scripture on the foundations of mindfulness the scriptures on the establishment the establishment of mindfulness so again as I said monks this is the direct path for purification of beings for surmounting sorrow and lamentation for the disappearance of pain and grief for the attainment of the true way for the realization of nirvana namely the four foundations of mindfulness this is one of the four here monks a monk abides contemplating

[33:51]

body as body ardent fully aware mindful having put away covetousness and grief for the world and in the sense of feeling thought and mental qualities are my objects in this sutra the Mahayana sutra this big Mahayana sutra when it says it the way it says it is a bodhisattva dwells with regard to the body feelings and so on contemplating the body and so on he does not form any discursive thought associated with the body here it says he contemplates a monk abides contemplating body as body

[34:52]

another translation is a monk contemplates a body in and of itself another translation is he contemplates the body without without forming any discursive thoughts in association with the body that's the first thing and that corresponds to in the chart that corresponds to the what am I missing trust and commit and relax that's the first stage so you

[35:53]

contemplate the body as the body which means you just really commit and entrust you don't trust the body you trust your life contemplation of the body as the body that's the first step and then you part of that you give up your ardent your mindful your alert really right there with your body that's what you're going to be working with and you give up discursive thought in association with it which is another way to say you give up covetousness and grief in other words another way to put it is you relax with it you're just totally there and relaxed not totally there in like I'm going to be totally there just being totally there in a relaxed way which includes that you're mentally relaxed which means not that you're turned off but that you're

[36:55]

attending alert alert alert attention attention attention in a relaxed way and if you have any discursive ideas about that you relax with those they may arise so if you're focusing on the body you may have discursive thoughts about the body about how to contemplate the body and you let go of those too even words discursive thoughts about how to contemplate the body you let go of those and you relax with them this famous story of what I think it's a teacher I think he asked his teacher how to practice attention and he said how do you practice attention he said attention would you please give me some instructions about how to just do that he said attention like that but in a relaxed way attention

[37:56]

attention like some relaxed really being established in the first stage that's the first step that's kind of like commit and relax and that's the first thing that's taught here in this early teaching and it's also taught in the large sutra on perfect wisdom to contemplate the body as the body without forming any discursive thoughts relative to whatever you're focusing on or even if you do form discursive thoughts just let them drop that's part of relaxation then in the early sutra after going through that the various examples of how to focus on specifically in the specifics like breath or the posture the specifics of the posture and then again when you're working on your posture you're working

[38:59]

on your mood or your or your neck or your tongue or your eyes focusing on a particular point of your body as your body with no discursive thoughts completely entrusting yourself to risk awareness with no discursive thoughts and you become established in the mindfulness of the body so for example someone told me recently that she likes to practice mindfulness of breath in terms of the sensation around the nose so one way to practice mindfulness of the body is through the tactile sensation that you have when the breath moves across the skin below the nose below the nostrils this person also likes to pick a small point on the skin below the nose so take a very small specific physical sensation focus on that and become established

[39:59]

in mindfulness of that and this phase of the meditation is a concentration practice it's a tranquility practice because you're focusing on something but it's not the focus on the thing that calms you it's giving up the discursive thought about it it's giving up the complicit ness the grief about it the gain and loss about it that's the calm but it's nice not nice it's nice but it's more than nice it's more effective if you're not just calm and relaxed about whatever man like the hippies used to do but calm calm about something very particular because I think there was a thing about the hippies it's like whatever man but then when it came to a particular point it's not that one not whatever man for them anybody can be whatever man with whatever that's what actually their practice was not their

[40:59]

practice but some of them that's what their practice was and you could test them and I used to go over there and test them it's not just whatever man about whatever it's whatever man about this particular conversation we're having right here it's about this word and this body and this drug it's about this it's about this money and this girl and this boy and this part of this girl and this part of this specifically whatever about that it's not whatever about whatever because it's whatever about whatever you can't tell if it's really whatever that make sense so the more specific you are the easier it is for you to see is it really whatever and if it is specific and you think it is whatever you will notice you get very calm that's the first phase of this teaching so it's in this it's in here it's all it's in here

[41:59]

this very so called shravakayana or teaching vehicle of the listeners teaching it's in the second turning prajnaparamita it's the third turning samadhi and maternalism all three but the heart the second turning and the third turning will focus on the next couple of phases and this one tells you but it doesn't highlight it as much the next phase it says here the Buddha says or in other words after you get established this way or instead of next it says or I don't know maybe or is better because then you don't get into next but anyway it's kind of like next or or next for example contemplating the body or it could also be contemplating

[43:00]

the sensation of the breath as it comes to you from the skin under your nose or the sensation of the breath in the area below your navel some particular spot like that so you settle into that you've committed and calmed down with this sensation of the body and then then the monk abides contemplating the body in its arising factors or in the body contemplating the body in its vanishing factors that's basically the second step so now you watch how how the experience of this sensation arises and how it ceases and I think it's

[44:02]

nice to emphasize that you're not so much concerned in the second stage you're not so much concerned about what you're focused on now first you're concerned about what and how to deal with it what can be with it completely and in a relaxed way now you're concerned with how the what happens and comes and goes you're meditating now and you're entering into meditation on causation and when you watch a sensation like breath and skin because skin is one of the ways you sense your breath when you watch that interaction your attention to the process affects the process so actually you start basically moving to the next phase where you start playing

[45:03]

with it but you don't play to get something to make something happen you play to see what happens you play to see how things happen when you start playing but you don't play to get something to happen you play to see what happens when you play in other words you're being playful so you're actually starting to realize how you and the experience are independent and how the experience is impermanent and how you're impermanent and so on so again in a playful way you're calm and relaxed and committed and because you're committed you can be playful if you're not committed then playful is like whatever about whatever but if you're committed it's whatever about a very clear commitment in your meditation so it's important in this way in all three of these levels of teaching

[46:03]

that you be clear about what you're committed to when you sit and meditate and not too many zen students actually a lot of zen students don't clearly specify for themselves each period what they're committed to well you might slightly increase the frequency of your breathing without making much noise or you might change the focus not so much to go to another thing but to see what happens when you change the focus or you might watch instead of just you might you might watch this point again this packed

[47:04]

sensation and just see if you can see what again this is like in the realm of concepts what factors contribute to it to the horizon of it and there will be different breaths the breaths will be somewhat different and you notice the difference but then also what factors contribute to the difference so noticing just doing that is kind of playing with it and maybe you can maybe you can make some other suggestions when I notice what factors are contributing to the arising of the sensation of the breath what factors are contributing to the cessation of the sensation of the breath that changes it right there just noticing it and then and then noticing the different things I may actually you know manipulate the situation

[48:05]

just to see what I find out and again not to manipulate to get some particular effect but to understand what the causal process is so you've probably heard of some people say you know breathe make the exhale longer than the inhale some people say that or hold your breath every 10 exhales hold your breath at the end of the 10th exhale that's something you can do but not trying to like make something happen but rather to sort of understand how things happen the main point here is to study causation not to have a particular state so that would apply to the playing and creating part

[49:05]

right play create and understand play and I was thinking also to maybe modify that chart a little bit let's stand like that for a while that when you when you are playful this way you start to become more and more immersed in the creative process of this kind of little world of breathing another way you can play with it is to notice how the awareness your awareness of feelings and your awareness of quality of thought the awareness of positive negative or neutral sensation not so much how your awareness but how those things as you are aware of them you can see how they affect also the body or the breath so notice the other frames

[50:08]

or foundations of mindfulness they will also be going on and you will notice them sometimes because even if you're focusing on the body or the breath it's not like you don't notice pain as most of you know now sometimes people just focus on the breathing and they feel like they feel less pain and that's part of that would be maybe something if you're doing mindfulness of feelings you might notice that when you're more if when you're doing mindfulness of feelings if you actually would give a lot of attention to the breath when it appeared you might notice that that made you more relaxed with your mindfulness of pain like for example if you wouldn't be doing it would you to reduce the pain and if you were doing it for that reason then you would notice perhaps you'd be meditating on thought that you had in mind just trying to reduce the pain by giving more attention to

[51:08]

the breath but in fact you might be actually focusing on sensation that might be the one you're working on because certain things you will learn in focusing on sensation special things that you can learn that are more subtle than the breath in a certain way is it good enough to get started? and then the next phase is or the mindfulness that there is a body or again the mindfulness that there is breath the mindfulness that there is the sensation of breath in a certain part of the skin so mindfulness of body body like a body with arms and legs that's one kind of mindfulness body is also mindfulness of sight and touch if we take this example mindfulness of breath at the nose is simply

[52:10]

established in her to the extent necessary for bare knowledge and mindfulness and on this phase you're no longer in some sense you're no longer being playful stop being playful and be more simple than you have just been and since go back to the way you were being simple at the beginning of giving up discursive thought however and that's why I think I've changed the chart this next phase starts you see the third phase there which says non-perceptual no more fabrication no more input no more playing sorry the third phase in the center column you have some

[53:14]

understanding now of reality of dependent co-arising because you've entered into creation but there's still a little bit of duality in it and you stop being creative in a sense in the form of making any input or experiments or play and you get very simple again like you did at the beginning and then that understanding starts to remove the signs by which you even understood how signs were involved in the process of play so in the final phase you actually remove the signs and the experience becomes non-dual so I'm proposing that in the early teachings of the Buddha you have actually

[54:14]

the Mahayana's input but Mahayana puts a lot of emphasis on the third phase the third phase of non-duality the third phase of emptiness in the early teachings there didn't seem to be such a big problem people thinking that Nirvana and samsara were dual didn't seem to be such a big problem people wanted to people knew about samsara to some extent they were suffering they wanted people to be free of samsara and they heard about Nirvana which is freedom from samsara and they wanted to attain Nirvana and they did and everybody was happy and if there was any sense that what they attained was separate from what they used to be involved with if there was anything like that it didn't seem to cause much trouble they were just cranking these people out these sages out sending them to Nirvana

[55:15]

and everybody was really happy about the whole thing over time this little bit of separation which was present in some people's understanding between the enlightened and unenlightened it became more and more a problem and or you could say the world became more and more ready for the teaching that the liberated and the non-liberated are not two samsara and Nirvana are not two and the one who realizes Nirvana and the Nirvana are not two and creation and you are not two but in order to understand creation originally you sort of have to be like you and it and how you're playing together and then here's creation but here's creation but there's me seeing here's their creation still a little bit but I'm doing something to help me understand

[56:15]

creation I'm creating this like the artist creates something and then they understand you need to take one more step in this process of removing the separation between the artist and the creation we're all artists we're all artists and in order to realize that most of us have to create something like you know your artist but when you just paint a picture you kind of feel different than before you know you know what I'm saying you're interacting with something and you feel creation and then you understand what but then you have to take one more step of putting down your brushes and chisels and welding torches and whatever dance shoes voice piano put it down now that you

[57:16]

understand through the creative through the conceptual approach now that you understand and then just no more fabrication no more words just be very simple with this understanding and you realize that there's no duality in this creative process and that it's not that there's not suffering and liberation from suffering it's that completely intimate it's not that there's not enlightened people and deluded people it's just that the enlightened ones realize that they're intimate with the deluded and the deluded feel some separation from some of the deluded and some of the enlightened which is that's the suffering but that suffering is not separate from liberation from it there's time for some more discussion so the difference in a tri-divisive would be to have seven things

[58:16]

to have understanding in 96 would be realized and that's where the bracket the first part of bracket of number 2 3 in the middle one so you you it's almost like number 6 would be understand dash recognize and number 7 would be understand or realize cognize so recognize means to understand right but it also means to make real or to realize or to actualize so there's a 7 in some sense the 7th phase of the process is is not a recognition it's like the 6th phase of an understanding where there's recognition that you understand it's 5 and 6 pardon I think you meant 5 and 6 yeah so 5 should be like

[59:16]

understand and you recognize that you understand 6 would be like understand recognize not recognize or realize cognize and understand and recognize does that make sense that's that's that's that maybe the chart could be done that way to recognize to recognize and realize the difference between the still conceptual the indirect conceptual correct understanding of independence from the non conceptual cognition of independence would liberate still be on there liberate would then still be the next phase would be number 7 number 7 so I think that might be a little clearer that way

[60:17]

it's a work in progress it's true so I I've given you an overview of this process and so this fall I I entrusted myself to do a class here on the same topic is that correct so I'm going to offer another class on the same topic this fall so this gives you a picture of the kind of thing we'll be looking at we'll be learning about how mind thought and consciousness work so we'll hopefully become wise about that and then learn how to go based on that into the non perception of the things we just learned about and hopefully relate it to the meditation practice anything you want

[61:25]

to bring up yes how are play and create different phases it's more maybe different phases of understanding like you're always playing but if you don't relax you don't get it in fact you're always playing if I go over to you you know and do something a little bit surprising you might tense up I might so then you but actually you know that tension is your response to this thing I'm offering and you actually were relaxed enough to move from being this way to being more tense you actually were relaxed enough to get more tense most of us are relaxed enough to get more tense and there's a play in that and actually I do sometimes play with people that way myself interacting with them

[62:26]

to see how whether it would be a rising or more tension but there's actually a play in that but you don't necessarily get it you know if you have some level of tension and then something interacts with you and the tension seems to raise you may not realize that there was a play there but you could you could somehow relax with the increase of the tension and realize that you're playing with the person as your tension increases I'm getting more and more tense you could so really the play is actually already there and the relaxation is already there that's actually your life is actually is relaxed but we sometimes don't get it because the way our life is relaxed is that we're also tense right and then we feel we're not in touch with the relaxation side of this tension because there's some tension too like I know I can say my wife says she says you're like this

[63:26]

but you're always ready to go like this does that make sense I'm kind of like tense I'm kind of upright I'm always ready to sort of like faint and I sometimes talk about the zazen posture as an upright swoon so it's like got a commitment here got an effort got a tension and ready to like conk out any time so it's we have tension but we appreciate the relaxation and most people do not appreciate it as much as they need to to realize the playfulness creativity is going on all the time like I mentioned to some people some people somebody told somebody a green light I said do you know how to do a green light creativity is not encouraged and I did get encouraged and one of the ways to be encouraged is if I was telling people do not be creative on my time you can be

[64:28]

creative but not when you're talking to me I'm the one that's going to be creative not you right that's the way to talk around and a lot of people fall for it they don't get the joke you're shaking your head you should come down to the slum sometimes the slums are right over here people bring me to slums people come and tell me about some really grisly details of this place I don't what but of course we cannot you cannot hinder you cannot fail creativity but I know it can look like we're hindering creativity but you really can't and you can also promote people's realization of creativity

[65:28]

so getting people to wake up to the possibility of committing something so then we can say whatever and then be playful then we can see my god I'm involved in a creative process here how did I get here well you started playing did you notice oh yeah right and suddenly you slipped into this creativity it's always there but if you don't relax and play you don't notice it it's always there and when you notice it then you kind of understand something which was always the case so that although we're always creative we don't always understand it even though what we are is exactly the realization of our creativity we don't somehow we don't get it we don't cognize it and that's what it touches this part can you see yes yes yeah yeah yes

[66:29]

I was trying to remember so oh yes that's me when we put down the chisel and drop the signs is that it does that happen all at once and there's a I can I don't know an existential change that happens in that person or is this a gradual unfolding of the dropping of signs that is maybe not perceptually cognized there is a kind of like what we call a watershed kind of thing where you cognize when you first cognize and that's part of what part of what I hope to go into this fall is the teaching of what you know what is actually a valid cognition valid cognitions are cognitions when you first have a cognition there's some cognitions that you have not had yet and you're going to have and a lot of

[67:30]

cognitions that you're having they're not exactly invalid it's just that they're really re-workings of past actual fresh experiences you have had it's possible to have an experience of this process you've never had before and at that moment when you first have it that is a life changing event and then you can have it over and over after that so there are certain ways of having take on this that aren't just like talking about it or understanding it but actually cognizing the teaching and that doesn't make a big change but you have to learn quite a bit in order to realize the cognition yes ma'am can you talk about the does it the playfulness of Zazen that you were talking about earlier in relationship to the instruction to give up all control

[68:30]

um I think um the first phase is giving up trying to control is the first phase let's say relaxing phase and in the next phase would be where that um even the giving up control there is still some formula that you that you you can't really get in the form of sitting unless you have that form but you can you can connect to it and you can relax with it now at that point you've gone through the phase of giving up trying to control you're not sitting down trying to control yourself you're trying to sit down and just be with and relax with whatever is happening you're not trying to get yourself into a state of concentration

[69:33]

but in fact this is how you get concentrated like the guy who gave the class on concentration last week class 22 one of the first points he makes is that to try to get concentrated is somewhat greedy and that's antithetical to calming down so it's not exactly a trick but sort of it's like a trick you gotta like not try to get concentrated in order to get concentrated you gotta give up trying to get concentrated and just be with what's happening now with your body and if you completely relax with what's happening you do calm down which means stop thinking about the form you have a form now stop being discursive about it and you calm down then stop trying to control it and you calm down based on that the first two phases of commitment and relaxation now you can start being playful because the form is not really the sitting

[70:36]

itself it's just some form we use to get to the sitting itself the sitting itself is more like the interplay between you and everybody in the room and between you and the tradition and between you and your body that's really what the body is it's not something all by itself but if we say the body is all this stuff whatever man then we somehow don't come to zaz in the right time or we sit on somebody else's seat or we lie down or whatever so we make a kind of a commitment to something and if you want to really commit to something you say could I commit to lying down could that be my thing I commit to and they sometimes have reasons for that they say yeah that can be your thing you say you're not committed to reclining posture and there's lots of different things people commit to but then that's the form but that's not really the practice the practice isn't that form it doesn't really reach

[71:36]

the practice the practice is necessary to have that form and then one of the ways to play with the form of sitting and we sit like buddhas right we sit in postures like buddha statues you know if we can't recline like a buddha statue we can't recline a buddha statue we wish we could recline anyway we actually use the form of a sitting buddha in our practice and then we relax with that but then we start acting playfully one of the playful ways is we listen to teachings which is one of the teachings is this form that you're using to practice the sitting of the buddhas is not reaching the actual sitting of the buddhas that's one of the ways you play with the form and working with those two things together Dodin says working with the form of the sitting together with

[72:36]

the understanding that this form doesn't reach the actual sitting that concentrated effort of working with those together that playing with that is called dropping off bodily mind which means in other words is entering into creativity then once you dropped off bodily mind then go back to let it go no more teachings no more nothing just sit so at the end of our practice we have just sit but it's often said just sits that's what we call our practice but just sit is something you do after you understand what sitting is just sitting is the way you practice when you understand what sitting is namely you understand sitting is this but this doesn't reach it sitting needs this but doesn't reach it so the dynamic helps you realize what sitting is and then when you understand it then you just sit so we go back

[73:37]

to we do tranquility practice at the beginning of our practice and throughout but then at the end in some sense we just do tranquility practice we just sit but that's based on understanding what the sitting is namely the sitting is something you know you are not it and it actually is you it's this dynamic non-identity it's an intimacy between you and your posture between you and your thoughts and you and your feelings that intimacy when you understand it then you just sit in that I really don't agree with that simple fact is that how can you separate the two the posture and the form that's very important the posture and the form no I'm saying that the posture is the form that we use to sit we need to use

[74:38]

the physical posture to sit otherwise we really can't practice sitting without the physical posture but that physical posture does not reach the actual practice of sitting but we couldn't we couldn't we must we must commit to that posture in order to realize what sitting is but that posture the form of that posture is not the posture the form of the posture is not the posture but we must commit to that form in order to realize what the posture is then once we have committed to that posture and relaxed with it if you commit to the posture you're not relaxed then you're not ready to hear by the way this practice you're doing is not reaching you know the actual practice you're doing if you're tense you don't want to hear that so we don't say that in the beginning zazen instruction but once you're committed to

[75:39]

that from the instruction and once you relax with that then we tell you by the way this practice you're doing is not reached by your ideas of this practice you know but you need some idea to get started yeah you need a hundred foot pole then when you're relaxed with that then you can say ok now I can listen to teaching would you please step off the pole would you like realize that this pole is not the practice it's just a point now you're ready to really do the practice but you need this form first before you can do the next part which is listening to teaching this form doesn't reach the principle of the sitting then you live with that for a long time the dynamic between I'm working on this form I'm committed to this form I practice it day after day hour after hour even if it's difficult I practice it but we don't say practice we don't say you have to practice this form we just say you want to commit to this form we say yes

[76:40]

we practice it we don't tell you be tense about it we say relax with it you say I can't relax with it because if I relax with it I'll just stay in bed ok fine be tense and then when you get in a zendo then relax well I don't go to sleep ok well after you wake up relax so once we get people on session we say relax now that you're trapped relax so I told that story about the bird right you heard the story about painting the picture of the bird right Pete did some of you not hear this story no it was on Tuesday and Thursday yeah I've been there for a while do you have it here by any chance it's here so this is a poem about my son Pete he's 10 years old so this is a

[77:46]

poem about a children's poem ok so first this is called how to paint the portrait of a bird first you paint a cage that's a commitment part upright sitting in the zendo in your seat at a certain time that's your cage you paint a cage with the door open then you paint something pretty something simple something beautiful something useful for the bird you know something pretty something useful something beautiful something simple to get you to get you to go into that cage so you've got the cage the posture in the zendo you know with those other people right that's the cage you've got to paint it the door is open so the bird can go in but you've got to put something nice in the cage to get it to go in there good stuff in that cage right got to get that bird in

[78:46]

there the bird might not want to go in the cage if you put something nice in there the best stuff is in that cage you put that in there for the bird then you place the canvas against a tree in a garden in a wood or in a forest or on a farm and you hide behind the tree without speaking without moving sometimes the bird comes quickly but it can just as well spend years before deciding to come don't get discouraged wait wait years if necessary the swiftness or slowness of the coming of the bird having no rapport with the success of the picture when the bird comes if the bird comes observe the most profound silence till the bird enters the cage and when the bird enters the

[79:46]

cage gently close the door with the brush then paint away the bars one by one taking care not to touch any of the feathers of the bird then paint a portrait of a tree choosing the most beautiful branches for the bird paint also the green foliage and the wind's freshness and the noise of insects of the summer's heat and then wait for the bird to decide to sing if the bird sings if the bird doesn't sing it's not a good sign it's a sign that it's a bad thing but if the bird sings it's a good sign a sign that you can sign so then very gently pull out one of the feathers of the bird and sign your name in the corner it's just

[80:46]

a love line so you gotta get in that cage and then close the door on yourself that's the commitment then relax and when you relax then you can start painting the bars and part of the way to paint the bars away is you know you needed this form but now you gotta remember this form is not really what this is about so now you can paint it away and then you just sit in this case you sit on the branches and with the trees and you just sit but you're sitting in freedom from the form now but you have to enter the form and close the door on yourself in order to realize that you're free otherwise even if you're sitting on the branches you think where's the

[81:50]

beautiful pretty simple useful stuff what's beautiful and simple about just sitting here saying well come here I got a cage for you come on so that's the process that makes sense we need to we need to admit to some forms what are these forms these conceptual forms and then yes did you say that just sitting is a tranquility meditation only no just it's a tranquility meditation only based on wisdom so you you entered the wisdom and now you're in there and then you're no longer doing any conceptual activity but there's still there's still

[82:52]

I was going to say wisdom activity yeah there's wisdom activity there's wisdom activity but you're just sitting so in a sense in a sense it's not even a tranquility practice neither it's just it's an enlightenment practice but you're you're being with your wisdom the way you used to be with your not wisdom so at the beginning when you're first practicing tranquility you're not you haven't realized wisdom and then you don't see your body correctly you see it you know as your conception of it and you believe that your conception of it is your body so then you relax with that you relax with your immature understanding of everything and then you calm down then you start becoming interactive with your immature understanding and then your understanding evolves it matures and then your mature understanding then you stop interacting with it and you

[83:54]

relate to your mature understanding the way you used to mainly you don't do anything with it you just enter into a non a non conceptual relationship with an understanding that arose through using your concepts to some extent again using your concepts in order to realize wisdom works best if you've already learned how to like relax with your concepts and when you pick up again you do it in a relaxed way in the end though to find the deepest level of realization comes from meditatively letting go of all the concepts in which you know and recognize this wisdom so that you have a non recognizing way of being at this so it's like tranquility practice it's like steeping your wisdom in tranquility which allows the wisdom to function in a more profound way yes

[84:58]

how does the intention that the to save all beings that um that's part of the first phase of the commitment that's right that's the entrustment and commitment at the beginning of the process if you don't if you're not committed to that you won't be successful in going through this course because in some ways it might not be interesting sometimes it might be difficult you might not know what you're getting out of it or something like that but it's based on a commitment to the welfare of all beings it's not a big problem none of those almost no problems are big problems because of this big commitment and then you're committed to the precepts and you're committed to being giving and you're committed to meditation and you're

[85:58]

committed to being diligent all these commitments and then in particular the commitment to a certain type of meditation so committing to giving precepts you're committed to the welfare of all beings and then to enact that you practice giving precepts patience diligence and meditation it's not even a meditation part but all the other steps surrounding the commitment so it's in the commitment to compassion this whole prognosis bodhisattvas commitment and they do this to realize the commitment does that make sense? so that's why it's good to keep checking back to your commitment so you think okay I'm going to be meditating on my feelings today or my posture or my breathing that's my commitment which is meditation but also this whole program here is the welfare of this of this world so this

[86:59]

practice can be realized by all beings that's what this sitting is for so check out the big motivation and the little motivation the big motivation and the smaller focus in some sense for each period it's good start each period with that and in some sense when practicing a group most people just go and sit they bow to their cushions and so on and bow to their neighbors but since the doji comes in and offers incense and does vows to buddha and the vows to buddha are we take refuge in buddha dharma and sangha here in this meditation practice we want to be like buddha so we don't have everybody come in you could do that everybody come in and bow to buddha and offer incense but the style of the school is to have everybody come and sit down and have one person do it rather than everybody do it but you could practice that way just in the

[88:02]

room and then you know you have we all do it together everybody together do three vows everybody offers incense this is a perfectly reasonable alternative way of doing it to make it clear to people that when we sit here it's in the context of commitment to becoming a buddha for the welfare of the world that's the context of the zinda if you're not clear about that then check out if you want that to be the context of your sitting if you do then be mindful of that too every period you sit just take a moment and say what's the point again oh yeah i dedicate this period to the welfare of all beings and also to the realization of buddha in this world not me realizing but the realization of buddha realization of everybody's that's that's the motivation for this sitting and i'm also choosing to focus on

[89:03]

this type of practice today this period now if you already understand you may not feel the need to reiterate this just feel that you immersed yourself in all this and you can just go sit in this understanding that's my point too if you don't feel the immediacy of that vow then maybe you should save yourself when you sit and tell it really like sincere and let you feel it all the time so you don't have to say this this every period so that the intention is to continue studying this this this type of Mahayana teaching this type you're welcome to join i've committed to it so i guess i'll be here here

[90:03]

intention equally extend to every being and place where there is a true merit of Buddha's way beings are numberless i vow to save them divisions are inexhaustible i vow to end them Dharma beings are boundless i vow to enter them Buddha's way is unsurpassable i vow to become it

[90:50]

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