We're here to study about Buddhist teaching, about psychology, about human experience and human behavior, and the world's right now having kind of a hard time it seems. This thing about China really upsets a lot of people all over the world. So we, I think, we're here to study in hopes that understanding ourselves better may help us in this world where great old countries with Buddhism in their background

[01:10]

and everything still wind up in situations where young people are killed, young courageous intelligent people are killed. And then the whole country has to, the whole world has to live with that. So this is an Alexander kind of goal, eh? Anybody know her? Yes, she was here last week. Yeah. She was in class last week? Yes. Oh, by the way, before I forget, next week is Seshin. How many people here are

[02:13]

going to sit Seshin? Quite a few. It might not work for you to go to class during Seshin, I imagine, right? I'd be happy to, I'd be happy for you to come. I don't know if it would work for you during Seshin. I mean, I don't know, maybe people at Seshin would not want you to come. What do you think? We don't know. Is there a class next week? That's why I'm asking. It's not in the schedule. The schedule says it's skipped? Yeah. I apologize. So is that alright? Skipping next week? And a week after that? Okay, so this is an Alexander. I don't know where she is. She's got black hair, though.

[03:17]

And this is Jennifer Patip. And back there is Lee Burrow. And this is Ross Caron. Ross Caron? This is Matthew Corey. That lady in the white over there is Rosalie Curtis. What? What? Lauren Dossman, where are you? What? Oh, is that your friend? Peggy Denisle, in the launcher? Over there is Brett Trasky.

[04:23]

The man in the aquamarine shirt? Is that aquamarine? What is it? Turquoise. Turquoise? Turquoise striped turquoise shirt. It's John Grimes. To his right is Letty James in a similar color outfit. Gerald Lambert over here, leaning on his left hand. Pat Landry, we don't know where she is. I don't know where. And now we come to Greg and Joe. But actually it's Joe, huh? You're Joe, right? Right. Where's Greg? Look. Here. Oh. Keep switching, it's good for my nervous system.

[05:31]

This is Joe. Joe what? McDonald's. McDonald's? Right. And this is Greg. McDonald's. Paul Middleton. You're Paul Middleton. This is Paul Middleton. How many cousins have you attended? How many? All of them. Maggie Northcott just went to one and she gave up. Hillary's been here for all of them? Hillary Parsons. Pat Phelan.

[06:37]

He's not here. Bill Redican. Right here. Jeffrey Schneider's not here. We'll miss him. Michael Smith. He's right here. Sam Smith is no longer around. Gil Smolin, here. Julia's not here. Secret someplace. Thomas Bond with Ty. Linda Weintraub. Did she go with Linda Weintraub? This is Scott Wren. Here. Right there. And Lynn Zanke. Back there. And Basha, your name's not on here. Oh, there it is. This is Basha. Petnik. And... Did you ever sign up for the class? Tell Thomas Barger about this.

[07:41]

He doesn't have your name on it. What's your name again, though? Steven. You've been to all the classes, right? Mr. Freshman. Anybody else in the class? Besides the visitors? No. There's three visitors tonight. Okay, so... Last time we... started with this one here. We used this as an entry point into the circle of the twelve links of condition coproduction. And then I pointed out that the usual way of teaching would be first to teach the five genres, the five aggregates, which are static. A static analytic presentation of an experience.

[08:43]

Then, after you can... deal with the static and the analytic, then these twelve links would be different ways, different entry points into and different aspects or points of view onto the static analytic, which would finally produce a dynamic, interpenetrating, mutually producing ungraspable way of living, way of experiencing, which is called the content and process of the awakened mind, Buddha's mind. And also, last time we talked about the importance of the word nama, nama root, but name and form, that basically

[09:48]

most of us, the way of entry into experience is through words because it's when we know things, when we're aware of things, the world we live in and we know about, the knowable world, is names, is words. So, the basic principle is you enter the realm of the unknown, you enter the realm of the unknowing, and the realm of the unknowable, the realm of, in some senses, the insignificant, not insignificant in the sense of unimportant, but in the sense of having no sign. You enter those realms through the known, or through the knowable, through words,

[10:53]

through names. The first step in wisdom is by hearing, hearing words of instruction. The next step in developing wisdom is to inwardly reflect on these words, think about them, turn them over, bounce them around in terms of all your other words, until the the mix of all the words you've received, the instructions you've received, and all the words you have in your own experience, your own concepts that you bring, all that builds to an intensity that takes you to another level of insight, which is just the insight of being. There are three levels, hearing, reflecting,

[11:54]

and being. Or listening, learning, thinking, and reflecting, and just being it. Those are the traditional levels of insight in Buddhism. I think also other religions have the same thing, same layers. Another way to talk about this is, which I like, which Dogen Zenji uses, is uh in terms of the near and the far. So, he's describing in his description of

[12:56]

thinking, he uses a koan where a Zen teacher is sitting still and a monk says to him, what are you thinking about? Or what kind of thinking do you do? Or what kind of thinking is it when you're sitting still? And he says, think of the unthinking. Think of the think of that which doesn't think. Think. Think. Thinking is near. Thinking is done up close, near. We already know how to think. Thinking is a voluntary activity. Think of that which doesn't think. Something that's a little farther away. Not necessarily far in terms of distance, but it's you can't reach it. So he says,

[13:59]

don't don't esteem or despise the near. Rather become proficient adept at the near. Don't esteem or despise the far. Rather become skillful or adept or proficient at the far. So, don't don't esteem your ordinary thinking. Don't say this is really where it's at. But also don't despise it. Say, hey, this is just ordinary conceptual thinking. This is my little prison I live in. This is Trashville. This is where I have all my problems. Don't despise it, but don't esteem it

[15:04]

either. Rather become good at it. Become skillful at thinking. Also don't esteem the realm of the unknown, the realm of direct experience, the realm beyond conception. Don't esteem it. Don't say, hey, that's really where it's at. But also don't say, hey, we don't need that. This is the realm of ordinary discourse. This is the realm of knowledge. I don't need to mess with the unknown. I'll be alright. Don't put it down either. Rather become adept at what? At direct experience. Become adept at the unthinking. Become adept at unthinking. Now how can you become adept at unthinking? You have no way of knowing how to do that. It's another, it's also kind of thing of saying, giving a voluntary and an involuntary instruction. Giving a voluntary instruction

[16:07]

to do something, giving a realm and giving an instruction in the realm of the voluntary about doing something or related to a realm of the involuntary. And one more analogy is the story of, the story of carved dragons and real dragons. Our ordinary life of nama, our ordinary life of words is carved dragons. The realm of direct experience, the raw innocence of our organic function is the real dragon. It's in that realm where dragons fly and spit fire and dive in the ocean

[17:09]

and cause huge bubbles to come up and tidal waves. And the story about a man in China who loved dragons and had lots of carved dragons and painted dragons in his house. And a real dragon found out about this man loving dragons and having all these carved dragons and decided to go visit him. And when he visited him, when he came down his house the man fainted to see a real dragon. But that's important. It's very important. But I think more important than the fainting because you all, you recover from the fainting. And you say, boy, that was quite a meeting I had.

[18:10]

The important point is that the dragon comes to visit when your house is full of carved dragons. As it says in Hokyo Zanmai, it responds to the inquiring impulse which literally could be translated as it responds to the arrival of energy. The word ki means energy or opportunity or something like that. If you carve dragons, if you think it responds. If it actually would jump into the realm where you can see it, you would faint if you saw it. Because the room would turn into a swirling ungraspable mass of illusion. And you'd just be wiped out by direct experience.

[19:12]

If it were translated into the realm of words and images. It doesn't really come that way, but it responds. And it responds I would say in proportion to the fullness with which you become adept in the realm of words. If you're kind of half-hearted about it, if you don't have faith that you should be paying attention to what you're saying, to what you're thinking, to the postures you make, which are all in the realm of words. If you don't have that dedication, single-minded devotion to what you're doing, then somehow it doesn't respond as fully. Anyway, that's

[20:13]

how in this chart here we start with words, with your experience. For example, you have a body. What you're talking about when you talk about your body is a word about the body. And then feelings, emotions, various tendencies, psychic tendencies and dispositions, all those, as we're aware of them, are words in our life. Then these words, in terms of, for example, these five aggregates, then the next thing he's telling you, and he's saying, okay, start with words. That's where you're at. And the next step he says, look at these six sense doors, or look at these six doors of direct experience. He's saying, now think about, first of all, tune into the realm of words,

[21:17]

now think about the realm where there's no words, and use words to think about the realm where there's no words. You keep referring to dedication, to knowing, and knowing and being able to be mindful. How do you mean just being mindful of the near and far? I'm not sure what you mean by dedication. Being mindful of it? Yeah, but you can't be mindful of the far. As they lead to each other, one goes to the other sometimes, you can be mindful. Be mindful of what? Just experience, be mindful of ways of getting to the far. You can be mindful of ways of getting to the far, yes. And you can be mindful, you can be mindful of, you can be mindful of when you first return from the far.

[22:19]

And, in a sense, the six sense doors are talking about to think about, use words and think about the words, I organ, light, light waves, or light energy, or light material, material which is light. Think about them, think about the fact that they're both located. These are words to you, they're words to you, words telling you, think about the I organ, think about some tissue some place, some place in the universe, where there's some tissue which is sensitive to light, and think about some light. Wherever there's light, it's always some place. Then think about the fact that light comes in contact with this tissue, which we call the I organ.

[23:25]

And then think about in addition that you happen to, that the person who's thinking here happens to have located right here, that very tissue which this light is touching. And then think about the fact, the teaching anyway, that consciousness arises when those two touch. So you're thinking about that, you're thinking about something which happens at a level where you can't think about it. But again, it's like, it's a little bit like being on the first floor of a house, talking about the basement. And a basement doesn't have any lights in it. It never has lights in a basement. Sitting on the first floor, talking about the basement is not the basement, and yet, if you talk about it enough, it's almost like you psychically drill to the floor,

[24:28]

and the basement sort of comes up into the... Something about the basement comes up into the first floor. Now it isn't really the basement, and yet somehow the basement gets integrated with the first floor, because of thinking about the basement. And the integration is not any particularly magical feat, because it actually is one house. The basement and the first floor are actually one living being, really. So it's just a separation that has to be overcome by thinking about what's on the other side of the wall, of the floor. If you actually go down to the basement, you can't... you don't know the basement, you don't live in the basement anymore. So if you think about the basement, somehow the basement comes up into the first floor. Not only that, but everything you think about in the first floor is a cockroach.

[25:30]

Huh? What? Pardon? Excuse me. I was just surprised. There it is. It's a cockroach, see? This is a cockroach. On my foot. And he's getting ready to fly. Fly! Anyway, so everything that you're dealing with on the first floor is actually coming, it's supported for, of course, by the basement. All the things that you're aware of have things that are passed up from the basement. Not only that, but depending on the way you think from the first floor, that actually has an effect on what's in the basement. The cockroach comes in the basement? Yes, it does. So when you think about the basement, you don't really

[26:32]

imagine what's in the basement. Yep, you imagine. Like, for example, what's in the basement is in the basement is actually the eye organs being impacted by physical stuff. Not physical energy, but actually physicality. That happens in the basement. In other words, when that happens, when consciousness arises by that interaction, that's in the basement. That's not in the realm of knowing. You actually think about that. In this thing. So first of all, you're talking about thinking about five skandhas, right? That can be thought of in the realm of language. Now, in the same realm of language, he says, the next step is, think about these six sensors. He's telling you to think about something which is below the level of language. But he's telling you to think about it with language. To use the ears, to use the way you use words.

[27:32]

To somehow, to talk about around beyond words. And yet, by becoming adept at this level of words, somehow the level that you're pointing to with the words, which is beyond words, gets illuminated, or illuminates, or the separation between the two starts to become less operable, or something. Even though you don't ever go down there with knowledge, the realm of direct experience becomes available to the living being who usually is stuck up in the first floor, and is actually scared to death, often, of direct experience. So, what do you think? Yes? What are we talking about? What? Yes? Right.

[28:37]

Right. Exactly. So, within the field of words, there's these pepperonis, which are the physical things. When you relate to the pepperonis, you're relating to words. But those words, apparently, words which refer you to physicality, words which refer you to the level of direct experience, those words are good drilling points. So, when you're talking about the pepperonis, you go through the pepperonis, in a sense. You drill through them. That's a good spot on the surface of your mind to drill. And he's saying that. Buddha's saying that. He's saying, OK, you've got name and form. You've got all this experience. You can think about all this stuff. But he's saying, think about physicality. But you're thinking about it. But what are you thinking about? You're thinking about something that doesn't think. Physicality does not think. Even the consciousness which arises through the dynamic interaction of different qualities of physicality, even that consciousness does not think. In terms

[29:43]

of knowable objects, it thinks. But it has no knowledge of objects. It has no language. So, there are hot spots within the realm of worry that are good to focus on, it looks like. Does that make sense? The next one is contact, and the same thing there. Now you're being asked again to think about something that's happening in that same realm, namely in the realm of direct experience, organ, object, and consciousness. It's like they touch. Think about that. Again, in the realm of words, you cannot touch that. But you're initiated into that thought by those instructions, and you think about those words. Then you take it in and you start reflecting on it inwardly until you think about it in

[30:43]

so many ways that there's only one thing left, and that is to be that way. Which, fortunately or unfortunately, you already are. It's kind of like getting instructions on dancing, and then thinking about it and thinking about it until you've thought about it so much you can get up and dance. Or you just start being the dance by reflecting on the instructions of dancing so thoroughly. And in terms of what you were saying, there's this poem by Rumi, I don't know if I said it last week. Did I? The breeze at dawn is when is this time when at the door when the sense object

[31:47]

and the sense organ touch, the rising of the consciousness is the breeze at dawn. The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you. Don't go back to sleep. Be mindful. Be mindful. You have to say what you really want. Don't go back to sleep. People are walking back and forth at the door sill where the two worlds meet. The door is round and open. Don't go back to sleep. Don't go back to sleep. Okay, those are more instructions on thinking about a realm where the breeze at dawn can teach you. At the moment of dawn there's two dawns. One is the rising of consciousness.

[32:48]

The other is the dawn of the arising of concepts. And the way we think in the realm of concepts then has an influence on the realm of direct experience. Already the way we're thinking is having an effect on our direct experience. That's happening already. But the proposal is that if you start adopting other forms of thinking about your experience you will transform your direct experience. And not only that but you will transform the relationship between your indirect conceptual experience and your perceptual experience. You have this wordplay that you teach as a point that you can experience something and then you make concepts about it. For example, you may hear a trumpet play. You have that experience. Before I told you what a trumpet was, it was a color red

[33:49]

before someone described it to you. But then you are now going from the direct experience to making concepts about it. You can relate it to someone else. You can think about it. When the first thing you said was I say yes to. Can you say it again? I'll say the first time you hear a trumpet play, you have a direct experience. That wasn't what you said. You said direct experience can lead to conceptual experience. That's always the case. I shouldn't say direct experience always leads to conceptual experience, but conceptual experience always comes from direct experience, originally. But then you can make conceptual experience based on conceptual experience. It's like the first layer. Basement feeds up to the first floor and then you make a concept. But then after that, you can make concepts on top of concepts indefinitely. And that's the wonder of the human mind. That's how we can write poetry and music

[34:50]

and build skyscrapers and count to 17. Because two is just one more than one, and so on. Sometimes people have certain experiences that they try to relate to others. The other people are not having the experience first. And maybe they are and they're not aware of it. And then the person is describing things to them, and so they get a concept of how to go through the experience. Whether it was someone experiencing something that they related to a concept in an attempt to have the other person have that experience too. Right. Okay. So that's probably enough for now. What do you think? Any questions? And you were supposed to ask your question, John.

[35:52]

Remember? Well, just what you said reminds me about like you were referring to imagination, it sounds like. Right. Now, in that, would you consider, like, it almost sounds like you said that's like another level of unreality, or conceptual reality. It's like an advanced level of conceptual reality. No. The initial concept is imagination too. The first concept. It's just that imagination can build towers of trains of concepts, wonderful systems of concepts. But the first concept, the first one is imagination too. But another sort of to make things a little bit more complicated for you.

[36:54]

The realm of direct experience although it's not there's no words there and there's no knowledge of objects there that's the realm where, that's the realm that makes possible the imagination to go nuts. Because that's the realm where that's the realm where, you know, that's the very romantic realm. That's the realm where mountains run around and dragons dive in the water. I mean, that's the way, that's actually where, it's like that there. It's all the things you can imagine are actually sort of like that there. Except that there's no words there. There's images down there. Lots of images. All the images that you come up with are available there, but they aren't known. They're in the dark. So we the stuff we build up, we just build up on stuff we build up. But it's originally based

[37:56]

on this stuff down there, and down there you know, it's just all kind of like really cool, that's the realm of dreams. So that's also the realm of fantasy and sort of the ground or the source of our imagination is down there. But the actual process of building this stuff in words that happens immediately every moment of experience has that. Every moment of knowledge, knowable experience has imagination in it. Has imaging in it. Are you referring to like the collective unconscious or something? You know, like primordial experiences of like all the ancient suffering that's gone on for eons, and all the ancient great, you know weird things and all the present suffering that's going on right now it's all there in direct experience. It's all there. All the data is there, and it's all causing what's happening to happen now. And so the only way to be free of it is to go through all of that, just see it all as

[38:57]

what is it? The only way to be free of it is to be intimate with it. And the way we become intimate with it is to think about it. But how do you think about something totally ungraspable and something that's not even in the realm of thinking? Not in the realm of thinking. Well, we work at thinking. We think and [...] think. We think very in all possible ways that we can think. We think until that intensity, that total exertion of the thinking also totally exerts the unthinking. And the realm of direct experience where all which is the interconnectedness also of all the causes and effects of the universe, and all the living beings totally at one and interconnected and causing each other, that realm is then also thoroughly penetrated and thoroughly lived

[40:00]

in the way it's lived. It's not lived in the way that we live up here. But we're not going to be able to live down there thoroughly if we loaf up here. That's what you mean by car driving in relation to Right. Right. Right now, if we're practicing right now, if right now we're practicing Buddhism, if right now we're trying to be mindful and honest and generous and patient and concentrated and insightful, if we're doing that in the realm of words to our utmost, which is just as we're car driving, there's a big dragon up there. And not only that, but what the big dragon causes, the huge plumes of clouds and rain and storm that go around the dragon, they happen

[41:02]

the same way from our little carving as they do for it. But we have to make an effort. We have to be enthusiastic about our thinking. If we're half-hearted about our thinking, well, where are we going to be thoroughly, where are we going to work thoroughly? We have to work thoroughly with what we've got right now. Even though it's just a little thing, we work completely thoroughly with it, and the faith is by working thoroughly with this, so thoroughly that there's no self even being grasped here. So when you first start doing this meditation on name and form, you still may be able to grasp a self. But as you intensify your meditation on your experience, you look more carefully, you more and more have difficulty grasping a self. You realize the total exertion

[42:03]

of your experience does not allow also bringing a self to it. So again, in the realm of words, Zen teacher Dogen says, when you come to practice, when you come to practice and confirm your experience of your name and form, when you come to think, when you come to use words, if you carry a self with you, that's just more delusion, and you're not going to experience the great supplementary beneficence of your total mind. But, if there's just a total exertion of what's happening, and things are just happening, by just advancing forward, and words are advancing forward and confirming the words, and there is total exertion and total exertion of words as they happen, in that space,

[43:04]

there is integration. There isn't even the possibility of hoping for something, or trying to achieve something in this total exertion. Unless the effort, unless what was happening was just that you were trying to achieve something, the name, in other words, the name of the experience would be, I'm trying to get something. I'm trying to attain something. I'm trying to be something. Well, that's fine, it's a perfectly good word, or set of words, and the total exertion of that with no self being brought to it, just that event happening, that miraculous thing of those words happening, if that's all that's happening, that's what we call enlightenment, which means that there is a deafness or proficiency at the near, and the far comes to visit. It responds. Every little tip, every little tip

[44:06]

is a tap. It's never not that way, it's always that way, but when you do your tip, when you do your little thing, when you make your little carving, your little gesture, your little sound, your little thinking, your little voice, when you do that with total faith that this is what you should be working on, then there is a response, moment by moment. It's somehow, you can't experience it by knowing it, but you can experience it, but it's not like something you know about, but yet it illuminates your life. Now, actually, a question. Well, I have a couple of words. Ask the one you just spoke to. Okay. Is this... Do you keep calling this a meditation? Yeah. Bojinshu.

[45:11]

Dr. Bojinshu. Sort of like it's called, translated as Guidelines to Practicing the Way, or Points to Watching, Practicing the Way. There's ten points, and the tenth point he says that you must practice with this body in mind. Nama Rupa. You can say five skandhas, Nama Rupa, whatever. Anyway, he's saying very definitely, you then have to practice with Nama Rupa. Now, tell me an usual instruction that you hear in Zen, and I'll translate it to this for you. What practices do you think people do in Zen, in Zen meditation? Okay, what's that? Is that Nama Rupa?

[46:12]

It's a name. It's a name? And it's a name of what? Of a form? Breathing is a form, right? Is it? Do you understand that it's a form? To make breathing, breath doesn't have a form. It doesn't have a form. So it's a verb, verb, verb, no. Okay. Yeah. So, step number one is, unless, if you want to hear this, is you experience that, first of all, statically. In other words, in a moment, it's not a verb, in the sense that it's doing anything. Verbs are, as you experience verbs fundamentally, verbs are words which are talking about an action. Okay? But there's no movement. It's static. That's the initial entry point.

[47:26]

Well, I think you have to be a little more fundamental to me. I mean, your thought's in there, right? So what is the entry point? I'm aware of breathing out. Yeah, at first you're aware of the breath at a particular point, right? It's not all over the place. You can think about breath. You can have a concept of breath that's all over the place. But you can't experience breath all over the place because you don't have sense organs that are all over the place. Your sense organs are located. Well, I assume that one would be nothing. Like, touch? Or, it's not, it's supposed to be touch. It's not supposed to be sound, right? Uh... As far as I can hear myself breathe. Yeah, but you're not supposed to. Oh. You're supposed to breathe gently through your nose. Not... Not... Quietly. You can't hear your breath, though. But mostly it's tactile, right?

[48:28]

Right, it's not tactile, all over the place tactile. It's tactile someplace. Where? Here? Where else could it be? Here? No. Be here? Here? Where else could it be? It can be all over you. It can be all over your body. You can feel it all over your body. By touch. But that shows that actually... That partly shows you that actually even when you feel your breath here you're not actually having a direct physical experience. You are having a direct physical experience. But what you're aware of is a concept of it. That when you know the breath as something you know even though you know it in a location and you're knowing it is based on the breath being someplace, in effect. It's based on mechanical waves

[49:31]

of air and gases and so on touching a certain surface called the skin. That's the basis of this. But when you know it you're dealing with it as a concept. Because of that you can feel your breath throughout your entire body. You can actually feel it on the same level. Because you're feeling it here conceptually you can feel it throughout your entire body conceptually. But the basis of it, the direct experience is that the breath is at a place. So you start... It's good to start with the breath at a place. Because you're actually starting to think about the realm of direct experience that leads to you being able to think about it. And when it's at a place it's not moving. It's at that place. Okay? That is meditating on Nama Rupa. At that time when you're doing it the breath is the object of awareness.

[50:34]

The knowable object of awareness. And it is a concept. Now there is another level at which you're breathing and experiencing your breath which is not conceptual. But not but and the wonderful news from me to you is that by meditating by being aware of the concept you have of your breath and also that concept of your breath I would suggest you could... I'll tell you later. Anyway, by being aware of the concept of your breath you are illuminated by the direct experience of breathing which is very encouraging to living beings. It's actually kind of like where it's at, so to speak. Hmm?

[51:35]

Illuminated? It's like or another way to put it is it's like you get this you get this care package. An ineffable care package comes to you of bliss which comes to you because you have it's like it responds your effort of being aware of this little carved dragon this carved dragon of your breath, right? It's not your breath but it's your breath in knowable terms. It's a little carved dragon of your breath. By being aware of this little carved dragon of breath the real breath comes to visit. It's already there happening all the time and yet it comes to visit you. You somehow somehow it comes into your life. It's like you become illuminated but it's not illuminated through the eyes. It's illuminated basically through not being separated from it anymore. It's like you start dancing with it.

[52:40]

So in so in that that's what that's the that's the blessedness of mindfulness of breath at the level of concepts and words is that by that effort the actual breath which is something which is okay which is also located but is connected to all living beings at that level and it's a great bliss that comes to us. And now what I what I didn't say before is there are different ways to conceptually work with your breath. There are different types of carved dragons to make. Okay? And we're suggesting a certain type of carved dragon. We're not in other words we're not saying that you imagine breath is generally all over the place. That's not the instructions. The instructions are imagine the breath as being in a certain place. Now this place or this place

[53:46]

is a concept of it but it actually is some place so it's good to it's good to make it having a place. When you think about it think about it being in a place. That helps you realize and bring into your life the actual breathing process. But since you asked the question I wanted to know are you following this? Where are you getting off in place? No, I'm sitting here wondering I don't know what's the use of what's the use of it? This is the only breath I know and the only breath I'm ever capable of knowing as I understand it. So I really don't understand the use of all this shadow breath. It reminds me a lot I keep thinking of the Greeks that used it up sometimes to talk like this

[54:46]

and whatever. The shadow of reality it seems to me a similar kind of thing. Okay, so what's the use? There's many uses. There's many uses but the primary use is that we're saying this is a mere shadow of what's happening. However I think I prefer to turn around the other way though. This is actually the realm of lights and there's this huge shadow realm all around. Anyway, whichever way you want to do it this is a mere this is a small scale version. This is a pared down for human consumption version of reality that we're living in. Okay? It is reality in knowable form. Reality is not generally speaking conceivable. But there is a little section of reality which is totally in communication

[55:48]

with the rest of reality which is knowable. It's a shadow or it's actually not a shadow it's more like a light show. It's more like a spectacular little tiny version of it. Okay? We're trying actually to say this is although this is just a small version of what's really happening you must take it very sincerely. Not so much seriously but sincerely. In other words your little breath is all you've got and you should become adept at it. So again don't esteem it don't say hey this is where it's at. It's just a mere shadow. It's just a carved dragon. And also don't despise it and don't say well it's just it's just a mere shadow or it's just a carved dragon so why take care of it. No. This whole thing is to get you to give total mindfulness to the little scale world you live in. And even within the world you live in to the minute detail of the world you live in. It's an encouragement

[56:50]

to you to totally exert everything you do. To be completely sincere about everything you do. That's the use of this instruction. And the use of your own little breathing is to give you something to be sincere about. And your sincerity with your breathing will then allow you to be integrated with your complete breathing process. And not only that but your little your little breathing that you're doing is located and comes in these little chunks. It comes in moments. So you've got a place and a time to zero in and be sincere about what you're doing in terms of breathing. And if you do put yourself into that the limitations or the obstructions between that realm and the bigger realm or the total realm are removed. And you experience

[57:53]

what we call total life or real life or awakening. So this is supposed to to inspire and then the use of awakening is that once we're awakened then we we can somehow I think be more helpful when the belief is that what we've seen is that you can be more effective in helping people in this world of suffering. You yourself are much better off and you have a lot more energy and clarity about how to help others which is also a great joy. It seems to me that connection sometimes when I've thought I've had that experience it's almost momentary. When you have what experience? Of connecting up with reality to say through your breath and feeling just a little touch and then you can like you say feel connected with what may be happening.

[58:54]

But then your mind starts to work and you lose it and you're back to the concept again. It seems almost you say you can make changes when you think about things but it seems it's almost a momentary experience. The concepts start to work again and then you're back out. Yes. And then we're almost constant. You ever say what was that? And that's how fast you go back and find out. Yeah, you go back and find out. And also the point is that the realm of concept is not destroyed by these experiences. It is actually the access and it is the access and place that is realized. But the concepts sometimes take you out again because they work and you should be working on it. The concepts will take you out if you go from the experience of the being of total exertion of the concept to then basically again kind of loafing and not totally exerting

[59:58]

the next concept. That often happens though because it's sort of a jolt to get encouraged and then people get encouraged and they say oh wait a minute I can't handle this so they go back to a small scale version of having concepts. It's not that you go back to concepts it's that if you go back to not really being with your concepts you stop being you kind of you get excited and it becomes a pitfall. You can't hesitate either you hesitate or you get excited and you get that Harrisburg deviation. But it's not that you're back in the realm of concepts it's that by not hesitating and not getting excited about your concepts by not despairing or praising your concepts simply work with your words work with your conceptual experiences just simply work it work it work it and you will be illuminated. At the time of illumination

[60:58]

again there's an opportunity to hesitate or get excited. If you do that it's not that you're back in the realm of concepts it's that you're not dealing with them properly again. So there is a slight disturbance that often occurs to people at the time of illumination. So it's very important at the time of illumination to keep sitting still to continue your effort so it doesn't knock you off. Usually the first time it happens to people they get knocked off. Yes? In the hallway there's probably a girl coming up to you there's a light in the window and when I see light reflecting through the window I always think you know that brief flash of color and I always think that that's what British people see light all the time because

[62:01]

the light it creates and I can no more describe the color than reflecting a rainbow from a window. I couldn't tell you what it really is when it's clear and it's translucent and it's really clear. But I always think that when someone's going to talk about the way to be and the way to be the reality is that I always think they must see light in that way. So when I see it the color from the crystal in the same moment when it gets clicked it reminds me of the experience of that contact. And I know that that also is not a contact. I'm not trying to say that it's not a contact. It's just it's almost indescribable to say the clear crystal color that's coming out of the crystal. I mean, I can't and yet I see it and it gives me some confidence. But it becomes awkward and you can't I often walk down the hall and try and hold the crystal so it makes a rainbow

[63:02]

and it doesn't work. If I try to hold onto it my hand gets too much of the light. And then analogously when we came to see it we knew we were talking a lot about what they were going to see and what they were going to see and we said if we could see how it's really going to work it would become this mirage. If my eyes could only see light and it actually is the color I could tolerate it. And I always go for it. But before you go for it sometimes you just look at the light and and you experience beauty. So you're illuminated. Because by simply

[64:02]

looking at the light by totally exerting looking at the light which is still in the realm of concepts maybe the other world starts shining forth. But I think it's not so much that that Buddhists see the realm of direct experience because nobody sees that. That is simply direct experience of seeing. We do that too. It's just that the Buddha is constantly supported by and not separate from that. But they're still living right up here in the realm. But however when they look at those lights they probably look at them like you do at that time. Which is actually an ordinary way of looking. It's just that because you're so concentrated you experience happiness. And it's not even necessarily even pleasant a sensation. It could be but it's not even necessarily a pleasure in the sense of positive sensation. But you're simply

[65:05]

concentrated and but again if you try to see the thing you're a little bit ahead of it. You're what do you call it? That's called praising the mirror. It's esteeming the mirror. You don't esteem it. Also you don't despise it. You aren't lazy about your perceptual process. You keep abreast of what's happening and don't do any more than that. That alone allows the illumination from the unknown part of your sensory process which is constantly feeding you anyway. But our laziness is what kind of cuts us off from the totality of our moment by moment experience. And it's partly our laziness is due to our lack of faith. You don't start with trying to get people to stop being lazy. You start with faith. You try to inspire people to not be lazy. But if you have strong enough faith

[66:05]

you can have the courage to really you know walk down the hall and take care of each step. And then sometimes you see a crystal and you're just in a mode of doing what you're doing and keeping abreast of your activity and so you just see the colors and that's it. And what a you know what a relief is just to see the colors. And it's not just that you're relieved from doing more than seeing the colors or less than seeing the colors. On top of that you get this you know reconnection with you know the whole of your life. So the one the bringing a self to your experience is extra and undermining. Bringing a self means to esteem or despise your experience. To say hey this is really good or this isn't good enough to deserve my attention. That's a kind of self to bring. Or I'm having this experience even is too much to really become

[67:07]

adept at your experience. So you don't bring a self and just not bringing a self to your experience is already a big relief. Then when then things start just happening and then in addition to the relief of not bringing a self it causes a lot of suffering. In addition to that you get the happiness of reconnection with this realm this primordial this primitive level of experience which is so satisfying. And then that protects us from all kinds of further trouble we get ourselves into because we're satisfied. We feel satisfied. What do we feel satisfied with? Experience. Experience is enough. Good enough. But experience somehow isn't good enough unless we make an effort to catch up with it and be there for it. Well I was

[68:10]

just going to question how this is somewhat in fact we do here and I'm not sure I guess I'm more narrowly interested in doping what doping which I'm not sure is the same thing as what I've been quoting Dogen. Well, does Dogen say somewhere that you should follow your breath? Does he recommend following your breath? Not too much, no. Well he does a little bit but not much. Right, well okay I don't I'm not committing to the fact that he recommends following your breath He does. He does and well he says he says in all of the meditation manuals practically he says inhale and exhale and he measures you to breathe through your nose. Well he doesn't also, he also doesn't say be mindful of your posture he doesn't say that either he says sit up straight. So he tells you to do something

[69:10]

called breathe through your nose in other words he tells you to do what you're going to do anyway but just to keep your mouth shut. Yeah, well okay but he doesn't say follow the breathing except in one text he says to follow the breathing and in an earlier version of Fukunzan Zen he said to follow the breath but he's not actually telling you to do regular Theravada breath mindfulness of breath but he's definitely telling you to totally exert everything that you're experiencing. Right, which in other words is a sort of different I'm feeling a little bit in something of what you said in other words you seem like you're very perhaps concentrating on the breath No, I wasn't Okay, well what about I'm just saying if you are mindful of your breathing okay that is if you're practicing mindfulness of your breathing then you should totally exert that if you're practicing mindfulness of your posture you should totally exert that or you should totally exert both but the point is that you just totally exert whatever you're experiencing

[70:10]

Okay, but that's what I'm getting at that's not necessarily there's a little bit of a conflict if you like either way and for some people it is quite natural and it's quite spontaneous and it's quite himself to be quite interested in the six doors and the six senses and so on and how they meet and how they contact and this is an expression of itself and if that somewhat spontaneously comes up for you that seems like to me another way to know this instruction is to follow whatever more or less spontaneously comes up for you which is different I mean for some people it is different because they're interested in getting more into their thoughts and getting more into analysis of what's going on whereas other people are more interested in things like how much they hate their mother or love their mother or whatever and so it seems like to me that you know with the six doors there's a somewhat more narrow practice than what Dogen recommends

[71:12]

it seems like Dogen is recommending you know pay attention to yourself to whatever comes up for you yes he is but he's also a disciple of Buddha so here's a Buddha talk so what's Buddha's teaching got to do with what Dogen is saying Dogen says he doesn't just say he didn't just say take care of and be aware of whatever's coming up he didn't just say that he did say that that's true he said like I said he said be mindful of the five skandhas he says that which means simply be mindful of whatever's coming up for you if you're thinking about your mother if you're thinking about a fly in your nose if you're thinking about your breath if you're thinking about your posture that's what you should be working on if you're being mindful

[72:12]

of your breathing then that's what you should be working on you should totally do that but he doesn't usually specify what you're supposed to be doing he doesn't usually do that right you haven't heard him say that so much about well yeah this idea of working on something is somewhat contrary to what you've decided to work on no he does say to work on something he says he says he says thousands of times he says study these words he says a sentence he says study that sentence he assigns meditation topics he doesn't say just he says he says be aware of whatever's coming up he does say that in other words he says just use your five skandhas whatever your five skandhas are do that but he also assigns definite topics which may not be interesting to you he assigns lots of little sentences and he tells you study this thoroughly he says study this a thousand ten thousand times study this sentence here

[73:12]

he says you should quietly reflect on this sentence he assigns words for you to meditate on but that is in the context of coping with and dealing with whatever's coming up so now if I tell you if I'm Dogan I say study this phrase and then you say well how should I do it and I'll say should I just study that phrase and when a bird sings not paying attention to it no everything that happens to you that's what you're working with but I also told you to study this phrase and one of the phrases he tells you to study is think of the unthinking he says that too that is the essential art of Zazen it is the essential art of Zazen it's not all of Zazen practice though this type of instruction is a special type of instruction it is for penetration it is for breaking through it is for breaking out of the little world and getting in contact

[74:13]

with the huge world so for those kind of breakthrough instructions he says think about in other words in the realm of words think about what's beyond words he says that in the book on Zazen remember think of the unthinking and it's also translated think to a place beyond thinking and unthinking yeah fine which is a little different it's really a bad translation he doesn't say that at all but even if you do think to a place beyond thinking and unthinking that's what these six doors are you don't have to think you don't have to say six doors but these are in the realm which is beyond thinking I'm actually saying that this Dogon's teaching isn't aligned with it even though he may not use his language but there are places where he talks about this stuff but he says you start with your five skandhas that's what you start with that's always what you're dealing with in the realm of knowledge

[75:14]

and then in the realm of five skandhas he gives you words that you're supposed to look at but he doesn't and one of the ways he wants you to look at words is to look beyond words or look to the source of words look where the words come from where do they come from they come from direct experience because I go why can you somehow come up with a word the words are coming from your direct experience you're making out of direct experience words so look where the words come from he says that too that's what Buddha is saying too he says look where these words come from get down to these experiences look in that direction when you hear a word you should understand its source when you're dealing with a concept when you're dealing with a conceptual level you should understand the perceptual level of the conceptual level coming from he's saying that all Zen teachers are saying that Buddha is saying that you don't have to do six doors meditation or think of those words

[76:15]

but that just this is a stylized version of all those meditations but first step is where are you at now static analytic presence breath your mother whatever you're doing that's what you start with but that's not all then you then you go deeper but you don't have to think of that if you don't want to you naturally will do that if you just concentrate on one thing it will happen to you too so you can choose a meditation topic and totally exert it and that will take you down to that level and bring that level into your life or you can actually think about that that kind of stuff and that will also do it yeah I just want to make one more comment because when you were talking about not esteem or despise anything it really I'd say reminded me of the expression do not make any judgments for or against anything or make any judgments

[77:16]

on heaven or earth or set apart who said that? one of those guys but it was so clear when he said that as soon as you do that you really separate yourself from avoidance and we do that we should do that real thoroughly so thoroughly that the the rest of it responds to us and responds in a real embracing way but we don't have to stop doing what we're doing we just have to do what we're doing more thoroughly more wholeheartedly more sincerely and in order to do that you have to you know do all the practices wholesome practices generosity practices and all that stuff you have to do in order to in order to really do what you're doing you have to do a lot to get yourself you know to do what you're doing

[78:16]

because what we're doing is really in our case you know it's everything we're doing so we have to really be enthusiastic about about our activities but it works that way what? I said thank goodness that it works that way yes, thank you goodness it seems to me that if you just did a spark it's very encouraging but if you actually get a wide open door it tends to be creative and it's hard to spare after it's closed yeah and what if the spare means splitting in fact that's literally what would happen but the one who closes it is the one who tries to grasp experience before it gets closed so whenever whenever people first encounter how wonderful everything is there's

[79:17]

there's a strong possibility that they'll reflex and try to make that into something they can get a hold of and that often is really bad because they close the door if you want to another way to put it is you make that kind of thing you make you you make the gift into a thing and the greatest gift is that things lack inherent existence that's the most wonderful gift of all you're actually not only get initiated into the realm of direct experience but the realm of direct experience then shows you that everything lacks inherent existence because everything's working together in such a way that nothing there's no entity and that shows you this inherent lack of existence which is really even more wonderful gift than direct experience and people can't stand that and they get into a thing and that turns into the worst possible monster

[80:17]

and that's why we need friends practically because other people can see that you're doing fine you just made a little slip there and that's and again words are very important so we meet in two weeks right? right last class and directions we find all beings will be suffered must suffer

[81:19]

wisdom beyond wisdom must suffer wisdom beyond must suffer wisdom must suffer wisdom must suffer

[81:37]

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