causes you some kind of challenge, which is not helpful. I hope it's helpful what I'm about to say. Some things have come up which I feel would be not really being honest and not to bring up. And what is, part of what's come up is I feel not clear that I should sit on this seat today. I was invited to co-lead or co-teach during this practice period by the abbess and practice committee, but I was not invited by you people.

[01:02]

I didn't ask each one of you if you wanted me to teach. So that's what happened, is that I accepted this position without actually being fully requested to do so. The other day I asked if it was all right if I continued to consider the practice and the teaching of renunciation. And one person asked what difference would it make if someone said no. And I don't remember what I said, but I think I said something like, well, maybe I wouldn't talk about it then. And since that time, I got the impression that some other people, not the person who asked that question, but some other people actually didn't want me to continue and were afraid to say so.

[02:06]

So being afraid of the teacher is quite common, I think, in various educational situations. I remember even people were afraid of Suzuki Roshi, even though he was a tiny little person. So the fact that some of you are afraid of me, or many of you are afraid of me, I understand is quite natural, since perhaps I represent authority and the Father and things like that to some of you. Anyway, at this point I'm not clear that I'm really being requested to teach. And I think that's fine.

[03:11]

It isn't always the case that one is requested by people to give teachings. I feel that if the request isn't there, that one should just wait until there is a request. And I know some of you request, but I think some of you don't. So, I guess if it's all right with you, I would just not sit on the seat today, and we can just... return to our, well, there's lots of things we can do. But maybe the abbess can decide what to do if we don't have a talk. So anyway, I just feel that way. And again, I'm sorry if that is difficult for you.

[04:21]

to hear this news yes I'd like to make a request if you feel like to talk about whatever you want to talk about yes right that's I understand that you do thank you And so when I'm talking to you, I'll do that. Unless you change your mind. Yes? Thank you very much. Before we go any further, I want to say thank you. Yes? Um, maybe people who feel like they maybe would prefer you didn't talk, feel like this stage right now, this stage enough to go down to, like, express themselves in that way.

[05:45]

So I would just like to, at least personally, I wonder whether or not, but I think I'd like to invite the people who feel that way to express whether or not their intention was really expressing that to you, or having that come to your knowledge, whether or not it was really their intention to try to, or whether they feel comfortable with the concept of maybe not seeking it. So I guess I need communication with people. I'm sure there are many of us who would like to hear the question. I wonder if anybody would like to ask that question. I came this morning hoping that you were going to give a talk you know so that's how I was feeling I think that the renunciation issue for me is that it's a difficult one and I think it's natural when you bring it up to say oh man you know I got something I got to really work on this but you know I value that

[06:53]

But it is difficult, you know. That's probably the best thing for me. Could you hear him in the back? He said the topic of renunciation is a difficult one for him, but maybe it's a good one for him. That you said, sort of? Yes. Andrew, in the back? Peter? I think that a lot of teaching is a two-way street. And you're acknowledging how you're sitting and what you said.

[08:00]

You are listening. I greatly appreciate, personally. And we're open, interested in that dialogue you did. Thank you. Jill and Michael and Mia. I was the, although I think I was the person who said, I know I was the person who said, made that remark. But I wouldn't have spoken half at all except that I had noticed my expression and I could not repeat anything very serious about what I said. But I want to say, more than you, I don't know how to point that out. So something about there needing to be, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but there needed to be a receiver of your teaching in order for the teaching to be brought forward or be expressed like mothers know, so to speak.

[09:09]

And I feel totally receptive to their teaching. Thank you. Michael? You may not want to hear this. Are you ready? I'm ready. This is kind of a place of admiration for you, from what you know, but it seems like this dialogue that we're having now put Jill in a very difficult spot, and it seems like it's harming her back with that, but I don't quite understand it. Okay, thank you. How are you doing, Jill? I just love this attention. Thank you, Michael. I, in fact, think that this is opening me wholeheartedly.

[10:16]

And I don't actually feel it's possible. I mean, I feel like I caused, I hope I didn't cause something bad to happen. May I? I was just thinking about a scriptural example of a time when there were students who did not want to hear a teacher's teaching at the beginning of the Lotus Sutra. when quite a few people didn't want to hear the Buddha preach, and they left. So I'm not bringing that up to suggest that people read, but just that it's quite interesting to me that here is a situation where it's hard to imagine it. How could anyone not want to hear the Buddha speak? But evidently, there are times when some people don't want to hear a particular teaching, and yet they don't prevent other people.

[11:33]

They don't prevent the teaching from happening, or they don't prevent other people from listening. So I'm not clear on what's happening here, but it seems to me that when this practice period was planned and organized, and you and the Abbas were invited to be the co-leaders, that happened first, and then other people requested permission to attend. And I would have assumed that in making that request to attend, people were making a request to receive that teaching? I've found that people don't often, actually often they don't think of that, that they sign up for things but they don't think about whether they actually want teaching.

[12:48]

That's why I sometimes ask everybody beforehand if they want it, and sometimes they say that they don't. And then I sometimes say, well, maybe maybe I should go to some other practice period. But I didn't interview everybody in this one. So, in fact, people don't consider that. Yes. Susan. I appreciate your humility in sitting here before us. And I want to be honest as well and say that this morning as I walked to the Zen Do I thought, oh I hope it will be Abbas because I want to hear more about Inanna and the Goddess and the Great Mother and all these things that are so juicy for me and I'm so, so attracted to.

[13:48]

And then when I saw you come in, I felt myself fully settle and accept because I know what your teaching has meant to me. In this practice of speaking about having a view, we all have views, but to let go of that view, and that's happened to me. And so I very much appreciate the teaching you want to have me on. Thank you. Luke? I appreciate the confidence of what we're talking about. Could you hear Susan in the back? If you want to hear some of these people, maybe you should come up closer, because Luke's going to speak really quietly now. What? Perhaps. Perhaps, right.

[14:50]

I understand. I appreciate the need to request the teaching. I don't understand this process. I feel like I'm at a carnival being asked to bow. It doesn't feel like an authentic prostration to be perfectly it doesn't feel like an authentic prostration to the three treasures? Uh-huh. Let's see. Andrea and Joan and Eric. And who, somebody else? And Tayo? Andrea? On the first day, when you greeted us in the zendo, you asked us to think about And you also said that you hoped that we could trust you to come to the world, et cetera.

[15:59]

But you didn't trust me. You hoped that we could tell someone else that would trust you. Well, it seems that on that day, you invited us, really, to listen to your teaching repertoire, to trust you enough to trust you. Thank you, and you're welcome. Joan? It seems to me very weird that you think I'm in a different position. And it happens, that for me, your style of teaching and the topic of renunciation, but it's much more important that

[17:17]

It's about enunciation. Am I speaking too softly? I'm sorry. That although personally I feel welcoming of your style and what you've been teaching, I also clearly have enunciation about being open to what comes. And part of being open to what comes is is being fully open to those people who may feel that the popular style is not quite right for them. We don't want to be appealing any federal people. So to me, your being on the floor is a teaching and our talking about this openly. And I hope for anyone who has any reservations, whether you feel like speaking about them now or not, that you feel supported in whatever you need.

[18:24]

I do feel supported, but as some friend of mine said, I support George Bush. I'd like to support him to not accept the position which he has not been given. And so I feel supported to not get on the seat. All the Buddhas are supporting me, I feel to not sit there at this time. I do not feel unsupported by people who do not want me to teach. I feel supported by them to not teach. And the Lotus Sutra is a teaching, and in the teaching is a teaching about the Buddha hesitating to teach. That's a teaching. So today there is a teaching about somebody who doesn't feel invited to teach. Eric?

[19:28]

I'm not sure about the whatever sort of mechanisms of requesting teachings and not having to seek for requests and all that. I'm not sure about that. I do know that I experienced this practice as being one of confronting things that one doesn't particularly want to do at that point of time and sitting with them. and coming to discover one's own resistances in the process of that. I take Susan's comment very much to heart in the spirit that maybe like today, boy, I really don't feel like hearing about renunciation. I could go for some compassion, juicy goddess stuff today. Well, look who we got. and being able to work with that. And I guess my question is, because so much of the structure of this session is about these resistances and confronting things we don't necessarily want to do, and I don't want to sound uncompassionate saying this, but why do you care?

[20:30]

I mean, I don't mean that in a harsh way. Like, I understand why you care that people are not responding to you. But on a certain level, you're just, you're just revving. And some people are going to go, sometimes. Right. But that's the practice. Right. But I sometimes, at the beginning, I said to you, I said, I feel like I, part of me feels like I want to leave you alone. another part of me feels like I have a lot to give. But when you said, why do I care? Sometimes I see people as, you know, they're hungry, but their throat chakra is tight. You know? And if you force-feed them, they can choke. They can go into spasm. So I have to be gentle.

[21:32]

If I push too hard, people tense up and can crack. So I don't want to hurt people, you know, by coming on too strong. And, you know, every step deeper I get into this renunciation, I get closer to a point where people are going to like let go, maybe, but if I push too hard, they'll tense up. So I do want the renunciation to happen, but I don't want people to go into reaction against it because they feel overwhelmed and like they're going to lose control of their mind or body or whatever. Part of Reb is if you tell Reb, uncle, he can stop. And when he hears uncle, he stops. He doesn't want to lose his playmates. And I, so, some people are not saying uncle, I understand.

[22:38]

They're ready for some more. But it goes even farther than just ready for some more. I mean, I'm sitting here, and I've been taking this renunciation practice to a deeper level than I ever have, to a point where it sometimes gets rather dry and sometimes a little scary, in a mellow way. Now I feel like I'm going to scream and run out of here, but like, wow, there's a lot to still give up, and it just gets a little more unfamiliar. And when I sort of hear the bottom drop out, but not in the way we want the bottom to drop out, I feel a little, you know, sort of a little like breath suddenly. Like, whoa, I was ready for this, to know that there's someone with me here. So it can be more than just we want to hear more. It can be like we're signed up and it throws us through. Mm-hmm. I see you, Nancy.

[23:39]

And... Linda, Laura, Tayo. Well, I'm always struck by when I put my hand up and then four or five people talk before I say something, what I was going to say changes because the input doesn't change. Yes. But an analogy, and sometimes analogies don't work, but I often think that practice periods, however long they are, it's a little like we all get in a ship. and we take off on the waters, the waters of the Dharma, whatever one would like to call it. And in this case, we have two co-captains. And now we've been out, and we're two or three days from port. And one of the co-captains turns around and lets go of the wheel and says, gee, I'm not sure you want me to do this. And I went, no, of course not. So please, I would like you to put your hands back on the wheel and continue with what we are doing here.

[24:40]

Because whether we like it or not, we are hoping to get Let's see, I don't know who's next, but maybe Linda or Nancy. Pardon? Okay, Nancy. Before I mentioned force feeding, you thought of that? Uh-huh. And I was feeling like... Pardon? Yeah. So I feel like you really don't know what we're talking about here, but .

[25:48]

So I think just the sense of the teaching being offering and then that we deal with it, what we do. I don't feel like there's a certain amount of trust that you just need to trust . I understand what you're saying, but my understanding of the Buddhist tradition is that the teachers do not offer until after there's been a request. They don't offer it and then trust what people will do with it. And one of the reasons why they don't offer and just trust what people will do with it is because Dharma is, when it actually starts to register, it is not what you like. It is revolutionary, and it's difficult.

[26:50]

So only when people ask do the Buddhas offer it, and they ask three times usually. And a while ago, when I was abbot, I asked people to, when I gave a talk and sat in the seat, to bow towards me three times, which is a traditional way of giving a talk in Buddhism. It's to bow to the teacher three times, and each time, each bow means, would you please teach? And that is a traditional thing to do, is to ask three times. And the traditional thing to do is to say, unsurpassed, penetrating in prayer for Dharma, three times, to request three times. So I do trust you to do whatever you do with the teaching. I do, whenever I speak, I have been doing that. But at this point, I feel like I don't feel a request.

[27:54]

And I think, and actually I've heard people that, in some sense, there is almost a request that I don't. So once I speak, I have been speaking all this time, and I have trusted everyone to do as they will, and I have no problem with what people have done with it. I shouldn't say I have no problem, but I accept what people have done. I'm encouraged with what some people have done, and it's painful to me what other people have done, but that's part of the deal. I accept that. But now I'm saying, I feel that without a request, I feel I shouldn't sit on the seat anymore. Laura? Excuse me, Linda and then Laura. Pardon? Well, I've heard your request many times, but I didn't hear your latest silent one.

[28:59]

Anyway, I hear the request from many people, but anyway, it's not clear to me that the group wants me to. Laura? What? I can't hear you. One person what? Yes. Okay. Laura? Laura? Uh-huh. Right. Julia. When we signed up for this practice period, we knew that it was going to end by the end of the year.

[30:03]

And I was guessing that most of us had practices as to who we consider our teacher. And we chose to come to this practice period knowing that hopefully we would teach it. Also, anyone is free to leave who wants to leave. I think there was someone left, but to my knowledge, no one has left. I think they'll be done for many, many years. I've heard some that I love, some of them are sweet, some have pissed me off, some have bored me, some have challenged me. That's the way it is. It seems to me that teachers teach. That's what they do. They teach as they teach. Maybe not everyone all the time has got a lot of everything they have to say. Sometimes it happens that a year later you remember something that was said and you think, oh, okay, you recall something. So maybe you see this part and you help to put out the subject because you don't like the way it's delivered.

[31:08]

But perhaps in a year or two, some, you know, coin will drop. Perhaps it won't. Also, if you look around and even if you don't like what's being talked about or how it's being talked about, you realize how many people do. And you realize how they are benefiting. And you're very happy for the fact that they are benefiting in this way, which you've seen . No, no. I think Roberta was next. I'm not sure. Okay. Roberta and Judy and Bernd and Deirdre. And Renee. Yes. Yes. You brought up some objections about how he translated into this culture, into this day and time, and overlaid it over this baggage that we have as modern Westerners.

[32:14]

And I want to say I appreciate your caution. And I get these concerns, too, very strongly. And also, I really support, to me, there's like a core or true teaching of pronunciation that I think is just great. But I think that what you talk about being medicine to different people, the right medicine, it could be that what is medicine to one person becomes toxic to another. And I want to acknowledge that. I was going to say I would really be joyful myself if you brought out how joyful the next week should be. It's hard for me to relate to teachings honestly that go on about how lousy and awkward and, you know, messed up. It goes on a little bit. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I find a whole different response to my body and mind when there's joyfulness in the evaluation.

[33:17]

And when I feel joyful, I want other people to be joyful. So I want to encourage that aspect of the teaching. which I think is fair. It's like, what dragged me to pull out of this teaching so big? And also supporting people who maybe don't feel like this medicine is going to be toxic for them this time. Oh, wait for them not to be here when they don't feel judged or embarrassed. It's kind of embarrassing to have to go out in the election. Like, maybe they can make a decision person without falling. They feel supported that way. I think Renee was next. Not sure. I feel very hurt. And I feel very hurt. I feel just that. And I guess I

[34:23]

I request that everyone here respect me and what you want to teach, whatever you want to teach us. I came today with two questions about the Constitution. And so I hereby request every time that you teach what I teach. I hear you. Thank you. Barrett and Deirdre and Judy. And Laura, was it? Is your agent Laura? Yes. I hope just that I'm sitting here and listening to everybody. This is Neil. This is Malcolm Neil. I don't remember. Sounds familiar. So I actually am asking myself, might this be renunciation in a radical way?

[35:52]

This group renouncing the story of the teacher sitting over there and this amorphous group of people who maybe want to hear and maybe don't want to hear the teacher sitting over here. Simply question that, what's renunciation of that situation? Or if you're, the situation right now is disruptive to Satchin, immediately I think, well, I understand. I've reacted the same, but also, what's renouncing Satchin within Satchin? Isn't that what they do? And what is that? I know, but I welcome all this. Thank you. Deidre? I heard you say earlier that you would like to leave us alone.

[36:56]

I was not having that teaching, I became deeply left alone. At the same time, I felt that the teaching actually listened to me. And I appreciate it. And I'm not happy that we're not speaking today about emancipation. I don't like it very much here. But I also appreciate this teaching. I'm happy to let you in. Thank you. Judy? I don't seem to have forgotten how to worship. I feel very much that the teachings go wrong,

[38:03]

I don't feel like this room has the .5 law. I think it may be looked at in a different way. If somebody left and I don't know why the person is left, they left this room, and I still feel like they're part of this. And I feel like the orders, if you will, or the word is a machine. By the way, people left during other talks too, during this session, during this practice period, People have left during classes and left during talks. People have been leaving Buddhist assemblies for thousands of years.

[39:08]

In the Lotus Sutra, 5,000 left. It might be a slight exaggeration, but it does say 5,000. So people leaving, it does happen. For whatever reason, they do leave. Let's see. I think maybe Mikael next time. And I see also Tracy and Salvi and Jessica and Toby and Laura and Ken. Let's see. Mikael. I appreciate very much you showing yourself being vulnerable. Also, I hope that it's not some sort of pride which lets you bring up deep questions and which lets you not take your seat.

[40:15]

I also, I also, I am concerned about helping making up into two groups. One group requesting you teaching and one group requesting you teaching. I'm very concerned about that. So maybe two groups make each other responsible for something, for the teaching or not teaching. And then, when we began talking, and not sitting on your usual seat, I felt like you have some sort of duty to teach. I don't know why it came up for me. Maybe that's what they're doing right now.

[41:24]

So I wonder, I'm not sure about what they're talking here. They're talking about requesting teaching and not requesting teaching. But requesting may be another way of requesting, and requesting may be another way of not requesting. Maybe Jessica was next. I think Laura is after, actually. Okay, Laura. Somebody. And although they are challenging for me, I find that I get the word that I'm pregnant. And I appreciate it being gentle.

[42:32]

I think I can see that I'm pregnant. And I would like to be with these good people. In the book, Being Upright, I mentioned that when I first started, when I was first abbot and was able to do ceremonies of giving the precepts, sometimes people would come up to me in the snack area and say, can I sew a rock, Sue? And I felt funny, you know, so I said, well, maybe we could talk about this some other place, because this is a pretty big, let's give some, you know, dignity to that request.

[43:39]

And then I would say, do you mean you want to sow a rock suit? What do you want to sow a rock suit for? And it would take them quite a while to get around to that they wanted to receive the precepts. I guess it's easier to say, I want to sow a rock, so then to say I want to receive the precepts. And then to say I want to receive the precepts seems to be easier for people to say than, would you please give me the precepts? And when you get up before a group of people, as some of you may know from doing it, you make yourself quite vulnerable. And if the people aren't requesting, if they're just, anyway, if they're not requesting, something's missing. And I do have a duty to teach, but it's in response to request. And if there's not a request, I have a duty not to teach, to wait until the auspicious occasion.

[44:43]

To give something before someone's ready to receive it can do great damage because they might reject it. So, that's what I found. Tracy? Yes, and you're explaining why Your talk is taking this form this morning. You, in the same sentence or two, you put together a sense of feeling that you have that there is a request from some people that you not do the teaching with fear. Pardon? Fear. Fear of the teacher, fear of the authority, fear of the teaching. Well, particularly, I more felt that people are afraid to express, to tell me that they don't want to. Some people have told me that they're afraid, they would have been afraid to say they didn't want to. So today, some people, I think fortunately, are able to express themselves that maybe they'd, you know, there is some reservation.

[45:52]

So what some people told me is that they they were afraid to say so, or if they wanted to say so, they wouldn't be afraid to say so. Your anxiety is really central in terms of what comes up when we're late. people, to you. So it's my request to myself, and which I feel most thankful to you and others for... It's your request what? It's my request to myself, and which I feel most thankful to you and others for, is your being upright

[46:56]

by being upright, that fear and anxiety. And there's no other teaching stronger than that for me. Some people have said that teaching is really strong for me right now. Well, I just want to also tell you that as I thought about coming in here and giving this talk, which I was really enthusiastic about giving, about renunciation, and I won't tell you all the wonderful things I had in mind. I felt that to go ahead and talk about that while keeping this other topic, which would potentially make people aware of their anxiety, would deaden the experience. Like I could kind of go, don't talk about that.

[48:02]

But I just felt it was a lie. So I'm sorry that... Already I'm forcing something, maybe. But I do think that the curriculum of our study is anxiety, and I don't want to hide it or pretend like it's not there when it's there. And if it's there, then I don't have to say anything. But I felt myself to not bring it up was a denial. So, here it is. And I'm glad you're up for it. Salvi? Les? Laura? I have a song about reminiscence. You want to ask me or you want to ask the other people? How long is it? Fifty seconds. You want him to sing? Yes, sir. Good morning to you. Good morning to you.

[49:03]

We're all in our places with bright shining faces and cases to wait to start a new day. Kitchen has to go now. Right? Goodbye, kitchen. Thank you very much for lunch. What's for lunch? It's a secret? Okay. I'm losing track. Jessica, you ready now? No? Okay. Jessica? I just want to check you out first. I'm interested in being in a place where I can learn this thing called Zen Buddhist teachings.

[50:19]

I'm also interested in being in a place where I'm part of a gathering which supports each other to do that teaching or to live life well and supports people who, whether they take the teaching or not, and supports them. Let's see. Daigon, let's see there. I don't know. Daigon, Laura, Liz. I think Toby actually was back earlier. Fusan. I think Toby maybe. I hear you. And I appreciate the opportunity.

[51:27]

Thank you. Laura? The New Yorker came out? Are you from New York? And I sat and sat, and I said, something was not right about this. And I felt so proud that this idea of you being disrespected, people being afraid. I mean, I said I was afraid of you, but I also said I was deeply appreciative of your teachings. appreciate me afraid. It teaches me a lot. And I'm really resistant to kind of worrying about anything.

[52:32]

I feel like, don't you know that? And there's so many things that we do in this practice, which is about elevating teachers. You know, we all do through the mouth shield by yourself. You know, things like that. And in some way, I feel like we need to, part of this tradition is about honoring a teacher, an elevating teacher. And you sit down and you say, I'm not sure if you want me And I get confused. I don't understand anything. And I'm a little bit more open right now. But I wanted to express it. Thank you for expressing yourself. Did you do it fully?

[53:34]

I'm still working on this. I want to trust. I want to be up there. And I also know... Oh, Ken, yes. Ken? I requested permission to come to this with the knowledge that you and the atmosphere of the teacher would be my teachers for this period. And that's why I requested to come. And I'm very grateful to have the opportunity to be here for this teaching. And the teaching on emanciation is very important to me. I share the sense of frustration that Laura expressed. I feel some anger coming up, and I don't understand how this process is contributing to the question that you raised.

[54:35]

But my request is to continue the teaching over time very quickly. Thank you. Taigan? Well, I hope you'll pardon a few off-the-top-of-my-head observations. From my particular point of view, over the years, Tenshin-sama, I've seen this kind of defect with you many, many times. And it always brings up this kind of anxiety in the group. And I can't but feel that this is one of the primary ways you teach us. By bringing something forth, and certainly it gains everybody's attention. Everybody's able to express themselves, which is from the beginning one of the things you have wanted us to do. It's certainly alive and electrifying in this room at this moment. So whatever... whatever the motivations that others ascribe to you for doing this, I can't but feel that it's a kind of a, whether you believe this or not, upaya, a way of actually encountering our holding patterns and dropping them.

[55:57]

I hope so. And when I had these feelings of that I shouldn't sit on the seat and that I should tell people the reason, I didn't try to figure out whether that was the appropriate response. That was just the response that came. I did not make this thing happen. I'm not in charge of this event. I'm not in charge of how I feel. But that's what came. I'll tell you the truth. It was as authentic as I come. I did not want to sit in the seat. Usually, I'm happy to sit there. If you want me to, I'll sit there. If you want me to sing a song, I'll sing a song. If you want me to take my clothes off, I'll take my clothes off. If you want me to be rough, I'll be rough. I can be anything if you want me to. But I thought today, I felt It was, that's what it was. And I didn't, the thought crossed my mind, is it the appropriate response? But I let it go. I didn't try to figure it out because it was the response.

[57:00]

And I'm very happy with what's happening here this morning. And maybe there's not one person holding the wheel, but there's a lot of people standing around it. And I think, you know, we may be going around in a circle in the ocean, but... Oh, sorry, I thought you were done. Sorry. Well, I just want to, you know, talk about Hakuin, that one person that we made a mistake with. Yes. And that's, I think, one of the assumed teaching roles that we, as you well know, we may step into those kind of waters where we would catch somebody. Right. Right. Thank you. Phu, and then Liz, maybe? And Susan, and then Garth. I just wanted to speak a little bit about the fear that I think I heard you express with concern on the path of those who might be damaged by the teaching.

[58:07]

Having been severely damaged by the teaching, It was an unpleasant thing, and it wasn't almost at all. I played the teacher in this game as a pupil, and it's a game that goes to this house. And I, what I feel is not so much with you, but with anyone else, as you call us, But what I remember about you as a person, what I've understood, is that you were there after them. And you helped me. And you continued to help me. And I don't know what that's like before, or what you've been through, but I still

[59:12]

I don't appreciate it much. I feel like I'm going a lot from . Particularly including your kind of highlighting what the city is and not sitting in it from a different perspective. I guess initially I was thinking there's something missing in this whole thing, which is something direct between you and whoever I don't know what happened.

[60:27]

Did someone complain or complain to another party? And I was just going to ask, did something even happen that someone coming forward? But now that you're on that, that's not the question for me to ask. But if you're to talk, there must be a way where you choose to take the seat, they're evaluating everything that might happen. And you've done that many times, gone through that evaluation. And I guess I was kind of curious about, I guess I was assuming you will take the seat again, you know, make that judgment, but the risk is out there. But it is kind of funny to have this whole process without, somebody be speaking to say that that voice, you know, it's not showing up in this room?

[61:35]

What voice? The voice that initiated all this. Well, it seems hard to ask somebody to say that. I mean, if somebody wants to say that, that's fine. But I think people told me directly AND SO I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE TO SAY IT IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY NECESSARILY. IF THEY WANT TO, OF COURSE, IT'S FINE. YEAH, I TRY NOT TO, YOU KNOW, I'M TRYING TO PRACTICE RENUNCIATION, WHICH MEANS I ACT, I TRY TO ACT WITH NO EXPECTATION. But just see what kind of action comes from giving up expectation, giving up discursive thought, and see what happens. That's what I'm trying to practice.

[62:38]

Thank you. I request to jump in. I just want to... Because I may be feeling something maybe others are feeling. People may be wondering, is it something I said? I don't know if there's other people in this room who are wondering if they said something or did something. I do, but I don't know. Well, again, I don't think anybody causes these things to happen, but are you requesting to know? I guess I wanted to ask, do other people in the room, are other people in the room wondering If they said something to Rev, or in some way did behave in some way, that might be part of what began this event that we're in. So you're asking the people that?

[63:44]

Yes. Well, do you want to answer his question? Wait a minute. This is like Salem. I don't even know if this is appropriate response. This just seems... weird. I've got Sam. I've been back. No, look at the set. It's freaking great. I know. The rest, the boy, Reb can take care of herself. His feelings aren't, I mean, you are vulnerable. You can get hurt, but I... I'm hard-pressed to think that somebody said, could you talk to me in wisdom? And then you came in and said, okay, somebody didn't want to hear about pronunciation. Just because it's going to be real. Well, something's happening. Yeah, something's happening.

[64:45]

Well, something is happening, and my statement, like... I appreciate that you still have the humor of it, because it puts things a bit in perspective, because I don't think you're in the midst of cataclysm. But when Liz mentioned what she did, my response was to ask, which did not have to be responding to, don't have to ask for an action. But I'm going to speak just briefly then about What I felt I came to talk with you about rapping was not the teaching. In fact, as I talked to you, I received great teaching. I left feeling settled and furthered and heard. I just said I had some uncomfortableness and that really in every

[65:54]

a relationship that I have, and in every group that I join, I have to kind of bring my uncomfortableness and my anxiety and da-da-da-da, and kind of bring it forward and just kind of get a little give and take on that. And that assures me that the universe is there. Is it happening right now? Yeah, yeah. So that's why I'm speaking. Great. So that was my intent. And you meant it very well, I thought, and I felt like I... Did you feel like... Beginning of a relationship with another human being. Great. Yeah, I agree. I appreciate everything that's been brought forward in this room and in the dog-san room. Susan? You said something the other day, and I don't remember if it was Sunday or another time, about you were hesitating to bring up the negative aspect of renunciation.

[66:58]

You were really, really hesitating. And I remember thinking, oh, you know, just go ahead. And you said in the olden days that people needed to be whomped up. Whomped up, you used that word. And so two things would happen to me. One, I am whomped up. I'm really alert when I can't believe the beauty of the teaching that's coming from the floor, all over the floor. But all over the room, it's quite something. And for me, the carefulness that you are talking about is something I don't want to do. I don't want to be this careful. Push those people over. Get them out of the way. I want to teach you. So what I'm working at is how carefully you're handling this and the resistance I have to take you right down that deep of being that careful of people like me and letting go of what I want and be patient and

[68:11]

Caring. That's what I'm receiving. Thank you very much. You know, I could have come in here and given a talk today. It might not have been a very good talk, but I could have come in here and given the talk and got out of here. And, you know, it wouldn't have caused much trouble for me on the surface. Well, he gave another talk. it was okay or it wasn't too good. And I knew that if I'd said what I really felt, you know, that it would be dangerous and some people would maybe get angry at me and so on. Something's happening here, and it isn't exactly clear.

[69:18]

Better stop now, what's that sound? Everybody put what's going down. Now you look like Sarah. Yes, perfect. I just wanted to mention that there have been a lot of people who've mentioned to me that they haven't connected with what I've been bringing up. So... And questioning whether it was Buddhism and so on. So I think it comes, maybe it just comes with the territory in some way.

[70:25]

So as the clock ticks onward, I would appreciate going back to sitting. I don't know. Not to cut anything short, Pharaoh, but... No plagues. No plagues, no curses. Only benefit. Well, since she's the abbess, if she says sitting, that's pretty much it. But I'd like to suggest that it might be hard for her to sit on the seat tomorrow after all this.

[71:30]

So I think I would suggest that tomorrow morning if you come in here at the time of the Dharma talk and she comes in here, I would suggest that when you bow, if you want her to give it, that your bow means, each time you bow, your bow means, please sit on the seat for our benefit, for the benefit of all beings, and teach. Please sit on the seat and teach. We request you to teach. So each time you bow, bow with that request. And if you don't want to do that, then maybe don't come in the room and you can meet outside with me. You don't want me to teach? No, I just said, I'll be outside converting them. Asking why they, what's the problem of asking you to teach? Because, you know, I don't want to be excluded.

[72:32]

I want to catch the people who jump outside. Linda says somebody left and they're in the kitchen left. I don't know what happened. I'm worried. I know a witch trial has an intent that's very different than what's with the intent here, but a lot of people feel very good about coming together as a community and really reaffirm our desire to family teach and make that public to the exclusion of one person. If that in fact is what's happening, I would say that that would be like song of concern number one. What's the concern? Check on that person. Or for me, it would be my request to you folks, since you're running the show and the staff, would be to check in with that person and trust you folks to support that person's well-being. Perhaps we could do some bows then.

[73:35]

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