Maybe yesterday one of my daughters texted me and said, I feel like the world is in chaos. I think that she sent me that text right after Israel made these strikes in Iran. I feel like the world's in chaos, but I'm happy to be with you in silence. And maybe some of you feel like the world is in chaos, so much horrible things happening to living beings, humans and otherwise.

[01:09]

And not only happening, but in a very chaotic way. Take away, very. So we are surrounded by suffering and chaos, And I am happy to be here with you in silence and stillness and great compassion. Yeah, I'm happy to be here with you at this time in the world. And Buddhas sit right where we're sitting, in the middle of this ocean of suffering. They sit right with us, and we sit with them.

[02:18]

And in China, back in the Tang Dynasty, I think a monk asked the Zen teacher Yuen Man, which means cloud gate, what was the Buddha's teaching of the whole lifetime? And Yuen Man said, an appropriate response. The appropriate response to this suffering could be to gather together with people who are devoted to the welfare of all beings, who are devoted to protecting beings from harm.

[03:26]

To gather together with beings who are trying to protect all beings from harm. and to awaken beings so that they can liberate beings. And one way to gather is to come into a temple and sit silently together. And some people today in this group will be leaving to go and stand or sit with other people who are devoted to protecting beings from harm, who are devoted to peace and harmony. And some people maybe will be leaving here, perhaps, to go and take care of their mother in an emergency room.

[04:37]

The question is, what's the appropriate response? Moment by moment, what's appropriate? And appropriate, the Chinese character that's translated as appropriate response, I think that's really a good translation. But the Chinese characters say meeting, the first character is meeting, second character is one, third character is teach. So what the Buddha's doing throughout her lifetime is meeting each and teaching. So appropriate response is nice. It's to what this particular moment is.

[05:45]

And some people translate that expression instead of appropriate response, they say, meet oneness and teach. Or facing oneness, teach. So it's both facing each but also facing oneness. And then that's the response which is appropriate to the point of protecting and liberating beings. Moment by moment, what is it? What's the appropriate response? What is the response that's to the point of aspiring to great awakening in order to help all beings?

[07:03]

In China, long ago, the response was an appropriate response. But what is it today? Moment by moment, what is it today? Can you hear me? Can you hear me at that? Yeah, there's so many appropriate responses. Unlimited. Each of us has our own response to give. So we have been studying this huge scripture for a couple of years now.

[08:52]

This scripture is to help us live the appropriate response. The first verse of the scripture says that the body of awakening, the body of the Buddha, pervades throughout all the great assemblies. It pervades throughout this assembly. If people go to a demonstration today, it will pervade that assembly. Those assemblies. This body will pervade all the protests. will pervade us sitting here in the midst of the protests. And this body of Buddha is quiet and unmoving.

[10:11]

this quiet, unmoving body pervades everything and it has no nature of its own and it's ungraspable. But it can appear in order to liberate beings. So it pervades everything and it can appear as a person standing and saying no, or a person standing and waving their hand. It can appear in various ways. And what we're doing can be that appearance, but also everything we see, everyone we meet, is an opportunity to meet them, realizing that They are also pervaded by the same Buddha body that we are pervaded by.

[11:20]

So we deeply respect all living beings. We aspire to deeply respect them. And to practice not disparaging anybody To say, I disagree with you. To say, please don't do that. To say, please move over here. That's our best appropriate response as our teaching in this situation. So these bodhisattvas, enlightening beings who are trying to make this appropriate response, they have ten abodes taught in this sutra.

[12:25]

And the first abode of these bodhisattvas who have a mind that doesn't abide anywhere, they have a mind which doesn't abide anywhere, and they aspire to realize Buddha's awakening for the welfare of the world. That's their first abode. And that aspiration needs to be taken care of. The next nine abodes of the Bodhisattva take care of this aspiration to realize Buddhahood in this world for the welfare of this world. So in this sutra, in Chapter 15, I taught ten abodes of bodhisattvas, ten abodes of those who are devoted

[13:45]

to help all beings become free and dwell in peace. I told you the first one. But for now, since some people need to leave soon, I'll take a pause and see if anybody has an appropriate response. or a response which you're looking to see. Is it appropriate? Anybody have a response that they offer with some question about the response? I see one, two, three. Yes, north. I'm going to an island down in Oregon. Yes, Milo. Yes, Milo. You're being requested to speak louder, Milo.

[14:49]

Okay. It's a little scary to say, but I sat down here this morning, I sat down and I thought, I kept thinking, I kind of went, oh, I have to watch today. And then that kept coming up, kept coming up. And so I was just interested in that and wanted to just bring it up because it's been something that's come up at different times in my life. work with, you know, whether to stay or whether to go when that urge is coming up. And it seems like there's different, there's kind of my wishes and needs, and there's also what's the effect when I've made a commitment to stay here for the day. And I just wanted to bring this up. I don't know what else to do. Thank you so much for bringing that up. Could you hear him? Yes. Thank you. Justin? You said that the Buddha body has a known nature of its own.

[15:52]

Can you explain that a little more? I will say it's hard to imagine something that has a nature of its own, and perhaps I can't imagine it, but I'm trying to conceptualize it. Yeah, so one teaching is the Buddha body is without its own nature. The Buddha body So one might wonder, well does that apply to anything else? So the first verse says, the body of Buddha is all-pervading, filling the realm of truth without end, silent, still, without a nature, and ungraspable. But other places it says, That to know this, to know that all existence is without its own nature.

[17:04]

All existence has no existence at all on its own. That is to see the Buddha. So the Buddha body is like this, but all existence is like this. And to know that and contemplate that and understand that is called seeing Vajrachana. So all these situations that we're devoted to also have a teaching which is all these things that we're devoted to, all these things we're devoted to, Everything we're devoted to, everything we want to protect, everything we want to liberate, it has no existence on its own. Then we see the Buddha. Then we are unhindered in our appropriate response. If we're devoted to beings but we think they exist on their own, we're somewhat unhindered.

[18:08]

incapacitated to implement the... Do you want to come closer so you can hear better? Do you want to come closer? Is that better for you? Maybe you can stand between those two people. Maybe you can stand next... Why don't you come? If you're going to stand, you can stand right here. Don't worry, these people are imperturbable. Happy to stand, please. Does that work better for you now? Oh, great. Thank you all for making space for her. She does not want to disturb you, and she didn't. Yeah, so we want to respond as an enlightening and enlightened being, but we sort of need to see the truth.

[19:20]

We need to see the Buddha. How do you see the Buddha? By remembering that this person I'm talking to, this person I'm listening to, has no existence whatsoever on his own. then you can see the Buddha and you can allow the appropriate response. And when things are moving around and people are talking, it's hard to remember that teaching. It's even hard to remember what's the appropriate response. That's a good start. What is it? What is it? What is it? And if you ask that question, maybe you'll start to get into that even an appropriate response, has no nature on its own and is ungraspable. You're welcome. Yes, Homa? I'd like you to reflect or speak a little bit about the aspiration.

[20:36]

The what? The aspiration. The aspiration, okay. The aspiration to realize awakening for the welfare of the world. It actually is something that... when it starts out, it's something that arises. It's an aspiration to realize something that doesn't actually arise or cease. It's an aspiration to realize something that does not come or go. It's an aspiration to realize something that's always so. But it occurs in some human minds. And when it occurs, sometimes the human notices it. Oh, wow. Wow. There is the wish to become a Buddha for the welfare of this world. It occurs in an ordinary, deluded consciousness. And because that's where it occurs, it's very wonderful and also it's very endangered by all that's going on in the human mind.

[21:44]

That's why we have to, for example, do practices of saying, what's the appropriate response? because the human language has this wish in it, if it gets insulted or attacked, it might forget to say, what's the appropriate response to this insult? Or it might be praised and forget to say, what's the appropriate response to this praise? So it arises in the ordinary consciousness and this sutra says that the first time it arises, And I know some people who have not had this arise in their minds. They want to study the Buddha way, but they say, actually that thought has not arisen yet. Fine. I'm talking about those for whom it has arisen. If it has arisen, it needs to be protected because it's living in chaos. The human mind is basically in chaos. There's lots of suffering there.

[22:49]

So when this thought arises, it's fragile, and the first time it arises, this sutra says, the first time it arises, it is exactly the same as the mind of the fully awakened Buddha. But it is exactly the same in the form of aspiring to it. You may say, well, that seems different. No, it's the same even though it's aspiring to. It's the same as what it aspires to. What it aspires to tells that mind, your mind's the same as this mind. You're just like me. And even though you're just like me, you're aspiring to be just like me. And even though you're aspiring to be just like me, in a moment you might forget that. And if you do, then you confess and repent.

[23:56]

I forgot what I was aspiring to. I forgot I went there to be with those people and I forgot to think about what's the appropriate response here. For those of you going to the gatherings around the world today, I pray that you don't forget to ask the question, what is the appropriate response? Yes, one, two, three, four. Start with you. Is your name Harrison? Yeah, good. Thank you. Good name. Sometimes it feels very clear, but still not all of me is convinced or definitely wholeheartedly that awakening is the most beneficial.

[25:07]

Would you speak to how it... Part of you wonders if awakening is the most beneficial. Wondering about whether... Aspiring to awakening for the welfare of the world does not exclude questioning whether awakening for the sake of the welfare of the world is the best, is the most beneficial. Questioning it is part of it. So that's fine. So now that you've questioned it, Now I say to you, what could be more beneficial? You said more beneficial. Yeah. What could be more beneficial than being able to see what's beneficial? What would be more beneficial? I feel there are some things that I can already see are beneficial that I could spend my time on instead of explicit or formal practice.

[26:11]

Yeah. Like what? Like what? Feed people. Feeding people, yeah. Feeding people. That might be beneficial. Teaching. Teaching people, yeah. So that might be beneficial. And now what about awakening? If you're feeding people and you're not awake, pretty soon they're going to be hungry again and scared and frightened that they're not going to get fed. So you can feed people and also feed them awakening. Then after they're done eating, they have some resources to live their life after being fed. You can also give it before they eat. So there's many ways to help people, but they also need to learn how to take care of themselves after they've received the help.

[27:19]

They need to, for example, know how to not grasp their ideas about what's going on. So being awake, you can still feed people food, you can teach them the Dharma, But if you teach them the Dharma and you're not awake, your teaching is not going to teach them the Dharma. Because the Dharma is ungraspable. But you can still teach people how to do things and at the same time teach them that this is a gift. This is not to change them into somebody else. This is letting them be what's happening. So awakening doesn't preclude any other forms of benefiting beings. It just liberates them from benefit and not benefit. And questioning whether awakening is where it's at is part of the process of awakening.

[28:28]

Thank you. Maybe your next, Linda. you say that the buddha body is has no abode it has no nature and cannot be grasped it on its own yeah has no um you add that on its own you know of course that's easy to accept right same with me i have no graspable nature on my own. Okay. She says that's easy to accept. Okay. It leaves a... But then there's a next step in our conversation for me, which is it's a no-nature... ungraspable, these are like negatives, it feels like sort of, you know, what, what, there's no substance there.

[29:34]

And then, you know, I look at your body and my body, and that has substance. Yeah. It has appearance of substance. It doesn't really have substance. Because that would be existing on its own. It appears to have substance. Well, we're really in a territory that's difficult to talk about here. I have no nature and existence on my own, of course. I exist, maybe I have to put that in quotes, you tell me later, In moving relationship to your body and mind and everybody else's in the waterfalls, so how do we talk about and act in the simultaneous knowledge that

[30:46]

no nature, no distance on its own. Of course, nothing. And yet your body is here, sitting in those robes, and my body is about to go to San Rafael. These are significant responses. Wait a second. What's the last part? I just said responses. These are different responses to the world that we're in. Do you know what my question is? So, let's see if I can relate to you. So, the appropriate response is in this conversation, where you said that this is easy to understand. If you add on its own. So, now I'm saying... Are you contemplating that? And are you settled in that when you meet me and other people?

[31:54]

So you say, okay, but this is saying to actually cultivate that and contemplate that. Contemplating that, then how does it apply when you meet an appearance, a person? How does it work? And the proposal is that you're going to realize how to relate to this person in a way that's appropriate to both of you becoming free and at peace with each other. So this teaching which, again, these gestures, it's an ungraspable teaching. However, contemplating an ungraspable teaching helps us relate to apparently graspable beings. You don't think we're really graspable? I don't think so, no. Damn! I think we're mostly space. I think we're actually almost all space. But the way we are, the spacious beings can imagine that we exist substantially on our own.

[33:04]

And that, if we believe that, that is suffering. I believe that I care about somebody's body getting hurt. That's great because you do, but somebody else believes that and they hate you and they want to kill you. They wouldn't want to if they understood that they and you were mostly space. This understanding that everything is mostly space and ungraspable is to understand where love comes from. Love comes from this understanding. This understanding has the virtue of caring for all beings who are ungraspable. So you can test it. Do you care for all beings completely with no resistance? If you do, great. That's what this teaching is to enable us to do. But if there's anybody that you're having a little bit of difficulty being devoted to,

[34:09]

respecting, welcoming, and loving with your whole heart, this teaching is for those people, the people who want to love all beings completely. This teaching is saying it's necessary that you understand that the beings you're devoted to are not what you think they are. They are ungraspable, just like the body of Buddha. This is to aid you. in caring for beings that you care about. It's not to age you into thinking that they are what you think they are. It's to age you to give up what you think they are. I think this is a good guy. I think this is a bad guy. Okay, fine. Those are appearances. Now how can I be devoted to that person who I'm relating to through the appearance? Yeah, I remember this person's not what I think she is. She is actually an ungraspable ocean of reality.

[35:14]

But I have a mind, I'm sorry, I have a human mind which makes things appear to be substantial and I need a teaching so I don't hold on to that. I think one person had her hand raised left. So that person is also named Linda. Yes, Diane. So is there a time? Pardon? Is there a time? So picture a group of people sitting on the grounds as part of the protest. Yes. And along comes somebody with a baseball bat. Yes. Is there time for all of those people to join hands and understand that this person is all space? I've taken a vow to love this person. Yeah. Is there time?

[36:18]

What's going to happen? Is there time to remember that you... Yeah. That this person is you? Yeah. Yeah, there is. Right now, you just did it. Okay, and then... And then I don't know what. But you just did the practice of remembering that this person's you. And this person's not how they appear. And you're devoted to this person with a baseball bat. There's time to do that. There's time for me to do it, but it is a bit of time for that person to also wake up to that. I don't know. Some stories they wake up sometimes. Sometimes they're coming with the baseball bat and the person looking at them says, I'm you, you're me. And they drop the baseball bat and, you know. A friend of mine was an Aikido teacher. He was on a bus or a trolley in Japan and they're going to leave pretty soon, right?

[37:22]

You're going to leave in a minute. So here's the story. He saw this guy get on the bus. The guy didn't have a baseball bat, but he was big enough so his arms were like baseball bats. A huge guy got on the bus and he appeared to be really upset and drunk. And he was threatening everybody on the bus. And this martial arts teacher said, wait until he gets to me. I'll take care of him. But he thought this guy was not him. So I would say he's, you know, relatively incapacitated for the appropriate response. But then an old man, old fragile man, got up out of his seat and went to the guy and said, what's the matter, sweetheart? That man could see that this giant, frightened, aggressive male was him, his darling.

[38:32]

And it worked. The guy just broke into tears and said, my wife just died. And that man took care of him. It is possible. Not too many people are that skillful. My friend who is a martial artist was not going to teach him that. He maybe could throw him out the window. But this old man knew that this giant, aggressive creature was himself. And if you think you're substantial, you're not going to be able to understand other people are yourself, because you think they're substantially that. You are substantially non-existent, but you are insubstantially existing. And if we train ourselves, we can help people But they say, don't try this at home. But anyway, if somebody comes with a baseball bat, you have no choice to try it.

[39:37]

He's going to run away or bend over and get hit. Or you're going to take the bat away. But the thing is, are you remembering that this person is pervaded by the Buddha body and deserves your utmost respect? Do you remember that? And if so, then you are responding appropriately by remembering them. And they may get it. They may see your eyes and go, oh, wow, and drop their bat. They may feel your respect and note. They may feel your love. But it doesn't always happen that way. The Buddha was asked by his people, to go and confront an army that was going to invade his people. Did this story really happen? I don't know, but it's written down. The Shakya clan, his people, were going to get attacked by an army.

[40:41]

His people said, Lord Buddha, please stop them. So the Buddha went and sat on the road in front of the army, and the army came. They saw the Buddha sitting there, and they stopped and went home. But then after they got home, somebody said, what happened there? We should go again. And they went again. And the people asked the Buddha to go sit there again. And the Buddha did, and they stopped. And then they came again. How are you going to let this old guy stop you? And so the people said, they're coming again. And the Buddha said, this time they won't stop. But sitting in the road, That was his appropriate response. Sitting in the road, that was his appropriate response. And he was loving these beings who were going to attack his people. He loved them just as much as he loved his people. But he did that service. That was his response.

[41:42]

That was his response. But then he said, this time my response is, I'm not going to go sit there. I'm going to stay with you guys, and we're going to be conquered. And after we're conquered, we'll continue to teach. Okay? You have our support, you have our prayers that you will make appropriate responses for the next few hours. Maybe we're not going to be conquered. And maybe we're not going to be conquered. The first two times they didn't conquer them, but the third time they did. But the Dharma went on. I have some pictures of a Buddha statue that survived Hiroshima. The Dharma will go on, but we may or may not get conquered. As the Terminator said, I shall return.

[42:47]

Please return. Be well, Linda. Thank you, Linda. Yes, would you tell me your name again? Okay, David, that's easier. I've been listening to the response or to the answer from the It's an appropriate response, and I'm greatly relieved that he didn't say that it's a perfect response. No, he didn't say perfect. Sometimes perfect is the appropriate response. Sometimes what people need is a perfect response. But sometimes they need an imperfect response. Sometimes they need a really stupid response. That's so stupid. And then the teacher says, oh yeah, thanks.

[43:56]

And then they wake up. Sometimes perfect is just appropriate. Sometimes imperfect. It depends on who's calling. It depends on each. Yes, Mary. Could you share that photograph with us somehow? I will. Next time I have the next one-day sitting, I'll bring... I just happen to have a stack of them. I've been wondering, who can I get these to? Now I have... It's been a request. I'll bring them to the next one-day sitting, and I think I have enough for... Maybe I have 40 of them. But I also have the ability to make bizarre copies. So it's a beautiful Buddha face with lots of pockmarks on it from the bottom.

[45:04]

But it's still beautiful. Not so perfect, but so beautiful. And Mary's going to get one next week, next month. Sonia. Hi. I would like to, I don't know if this is helpful, but I'd like to say how I'm translating for myself what you're offering today, and the image of the pearl of no nature, no body, this pearl of its own rolling in a bowl. I'm thinking of that as consciousness, which has no body and no form, but informs me, us, and that this elmatamsaka training is how to train this consciousness that informs a gesture or a speech for an appropriate response.

[46:15]

And that, in that training, I remembered that when I look at you, you are not only what I see, but also what I can't see. I'm not at all what you see. Yeah. I'm not at all what you see. But you're... But? But you're something, what I think I see. No, nothing that you think, I'm nothing of what you think I am. Not at all. And I also am nothing of what I think I am. Not at all. Not at all. Not even a little? Not even a little. And you aren't even a little of what I think you are. What I think you are is you are free of even a little of what I think you are. You're completely free of anybody's idea of what you are and all everybody's ideas added up together do not touch you. You are inconceivable.

[47:17]

And so am I, and so are all of us. Inconceivable, ungraspable, and the Buddha body appears. So your body appears too. You're like the Buddha, your body appears. But the appearance, that's just an illusion, that's just a projection. And it turns out, don't worry, the projection never touches you. Is the projection separate from what you are? No. It's not separate, but it doesn't characterize you or reach you. Is that consciousness at work or at play? The projection is consciousness at work, and oftentimes not very playfully. But that's, is that part of our training here? What part of our training? To be still in the midst of that consciousness.

[48:22]

Being still in the midst of the consciousness projecting things on an ungraspable causal process of the universe. to be in such a consciousness, we sit still and quiet and listen to the Dharma to deal with these appearances of something that's graspable. And to sort of not totally buy into it, or if we do totally buy into it, I just confess that I totally bought into believing that what I thought you are is what you are. I'm so sorry. I had this idea that you were a really wonderful person. And I actually grasped that, and I'm so sorry. I'm sorry you did, too. Lord Buddha, I'm so sorry.

[49:22]

I had this idea of what you were and I grasped that as what you are. I'm so sorry. And the Buddha says, Thank you. That was really a big mistake you made. But I appreciate you noticed it. I am not what you think I am. That's what the Buddha says to us. I am awakened and this awakening is not what I think it is or what you think it is. It is ungraspable and that's what makes it able to help people and pervade them completely and allow them to aspire to understand and to listen to these teachings. Was there another hand? It seems like there's something of a mirror, as you were describing before, that's part of the process of the appropriate response. But if you're reflecting back, you are me, you're still within a form or a concept.

[50:33]

Yeah. So like when our ancestor Jungshan was crossing the stream, he saw his reflection in the water, And he understood his teacher's teaching to him, which was, just this person is it. And he said, the part I want to relate to, he says, now I am him, and in truth he's not me. Or, now I'm not him, and in truth he is me. And there's a recording of many of Csikszentmihalyi's talks, and in one of them Irene Horowitz says to him, Yesterday, Roshi, you said that in order to help people we have to be enlightened, but does that mean the people in this group who are not enlightened can't help people?

[51:36]

And he said, oh yeah, well, enlightenment is kind of somewhat difficult to understand. But we can say that it is when you understand that others are yourself. And many people are trying to help other people, which is a nice thing to try. It's good. It's not an unwholesome thing. are awakened, the person you're trying to help you understand is yourself. And yourself, therefore, yourself cannot be grasped, because it's not this, and you can't grasp that either. Everybody is included in me and I'm included in everybody. This is to help me not get stuck and preclude the appropriate response.

[52:44]

But karmic consciousness has more interesting things to do than remember that teaching. So we sometimes forget that everybody we meet is ourself. and we don't know who they are. Yes and yes. Yes, Debra. I don't usually know... I don't know whether my responses are appropriate. I have the aspiration to have an appropriate response, but I don't know. Yes, yes. Yeah. Same here. I do not know if my responses are appropriate. Like today. You came, I responded. I don't know if that was appropriate. How I've been responding, I don't know. But I do aspire to an appropriate response, which is the same as aspiring to Buddha. Because that's what Buddha is. Buddha is an appropriate response.

[53:51]

Again, appropriate to beings being free and compassionate. But I don't know if my responses are that way, but I do have this insubstantial, ungraspable aspiration to live a life of appropriately responding. And since I don't know if I'm responding appropriately, I am open to people asking me or telling me that they feel like my response was not appropriate. So if any of you feel like my responses are not appropriate, you're welcome to tell me. That doesn't mean you're right, it means you're welcome to tell me that you think it wasn't. Because again, the appropriate response is also ungraspable and all-pervasive. The Buddha's enlightening activity pervades all beings and is ungraspable. But it has this consequence of liberating beings.

[54:53]

And as part of that, it takes form. But the form is empty, that it takes. But it takes the form to help people. And the Buddha does not get into, I know that that was an appropriate response. So I'm with you on not knowing. Can you tell me your name again? Adrian? Adrian, yes. I guess the role of the chaos in our mind. Will you say it louder, please? Of, like, the role of the chaos in our mind? The role? Yeah, a word. The role of the chaos is to stimulate us to practice the way. It's to stimulate us to listen to it. It's giving us an opportunity to respect it. to honor it, to welcome it, to be careful of it, to be gentle with it, to not put it down, to try to get rid of it.

[56:06]

Because, of course, chaos feeds on resistance to chaos. Chaos needs resistance to chaos. One form of resistance to chaos is order. Chaos feeds on order. So if you want to feed chaos, fight it. But if you want to develop wisdom, chaos is a good opportunity. But not by trying to get rid of it or make it not chaos. But it's hard when chaos comes to not resist it and try to make it in order. I should say it's easy to resist it. It's easy to resist it. What's hard is to open to it and respect it and say, welcome, darling. That guy in the bus was like chaos coming down the aisle. Hello, darling.

[57:11]

Chaos is coming. Can we welcome it? Can we respect it? I say yes. Yes. And then people try it and say, it's so hard. Yeah. It's hard to respect chaos. It's hard to respect a lot of stuff. But that's the Buddha way, respecting living beings, being gentle with them. Yes, Charlie. One of my teachers says, teaches that it's a good practice to seek adversity. Seek it? Seek adversity, because it's a lot harder when adversity comes upon you. Yeah, I would just, I'm close to that, but I feel a little different. Not seek it, because what you seek...

[58:15]

is not the best. What comes to you uninvited. So I say, welcome adversity. I agree that adversity is adversity not always, but definitely part of becoming a Buddha is being given adversity. You can't become a Buddha without some adversity. And I used to, when I was younger, I used to feel like I can't be a good Zen priest because I didn't live in the middle. I wasn't like in Germany or Japan during the Second World War. I was safely, you know, with my mommy in America. No bombs falling on my house. I can't be a great Zen master like Suzuki Roshi because I didn't have that. I used to think I need more adversity. But anyway, now I have it. So I think adversity is necessary to have adversity to make a fully enlightened person.

[59:19]

But don't seek it. Let other people decide when you get it. What about the practice of swimming in cold water? Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that a form of practicing seeking adversity so that you can be upright with it, in a deliberate and safe... Yeah, thanks for that example. Thank you. Isn't that seeking adversity? Well, I do that and I don't seek adversity. I want to go swimming in the water. What I seek, what I want to do, is I want to learn how to go into the water and be relaxed. That's what I'm seeking. I'm seeking to go into the water and feel the cold come up my body. I don't jump in. I feel that it's possible even less... quarter of an inch, half an inch, inch by inch.

[60:24]

I want to learn how to relax with that. That's what I'm seeking. I'm seeking to relax with adversity. I'm not seeking the adversity. And the people, most, a lot of the people who go swimming in the cold water, what they seek is relaxing with the adversity. Then after they do that, and they do eventually, you do eventually relax. You can jump in and then later relax. I like to relax right from the beginning if possible. And it's very difficult as the cold comes to like, ooh, relax, ooh, relax. That's what I'm seeking. I'm seeking the relaxation with adversity Relaxation with adversity is Buddha. That's what I meant. Yeah. Yeah, that's what you meant. These people who go into the cold water, like at the Dolphin Club in San Francisco, that's their religion. A lot of them. And what they seek is that they eventually do relax.

[61:29]

After a while you do relax and you come out and then you have to deal with being cold and so on. But it's the relaxation that they... And then they have a better chance of relaxing to the other adversities that they're going to get during the rest of the day. But I didn't do that when I first started practicing Zen. I just got up in the morning. Adversity. sat cross-legged, full lotus, adversity. And then I just relaxed with it. By the end of the period, I was relaxed. And I'm still doing that. Get up, adversity. Sit cross-legged, adversity. And relax. Yes, Jean. I heard the same example this morning about going into freezing water on hit and rain, and they said it was masochism.

[62:31]

Hey, masochism, another adversity. But actually, I even had, so the bay, I don't know what the temperature of the bay now is, but probably around maybe 60. But even if you go into water that's 82, it's still a little bit... So anyway, the opportunity is that we are surrounded by adversity, we are surrounded by suffering, and can we, like, welcome it and relax with it? That's the great challenge. And if you can, great. But then they don't do it just once, they go back the next day, too. You have to do it kind of on a daily basis. Yesterday's relaxation needs to be reiterated today. Otherwise, we might not be relaxed and not know it.

[63:35]

But going into the cold water, oh, I still, I'm not relaxing. I relaxed yesterday, but today I'm tense again. I'm resisting it. So, yeah. Anything else? Yes, Tomo. I've been contemplating that I'm not what you think I am. And also, I'm not what you think I am. You are what you think I am. Well, part of what I am is what I think of you, yes. And you don't know anything about that. Even if I tell you, what you think I told you is not your idea of what you think I told you. Yeah, I am thinking about you right now. And I think you're Tomo rather than Helen. That's what I think.

[64:37]

That's who I am. I'm a thinker. I'm thinking about all of you. However, I'm also a Zen student, so I've heard, you're not what I think you are. I'm thinking what you, I'm like, I have this great brain. I can think about all of you in detail, moment by moment, make a new story of each one of you, each moment. It's amazing what this brain can do. But you're not any of that. Not at all. You're all vast, mysterious oceans. You're all oceans of worlds. That's what the sutras say. And by the way, Tomo, thanks for letting me think about you. Maybe that's enough for this morning. Is that enough for this morning? I don't hear a no.

[65:40]

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