If the heat is not working in the Zendo, you'll get an experience, a little bit of experience, what it used to be like here. Huh? No, a long time ago. Before we moved to the new Zendo, except we used to be down in the pit. So it's colder down there than up there. And it won't be too cold tomorrow either, so it might be interesting. Also, we couldn't wear the socks, including the servers. See, number one, the Zajisha asked me about the brief doksans during Sashin and I would intend to do them with you. And he said he would like to have, like, Three days, one schedule.

[01:01]

Four days, another one. Four days, one schedule. Three days, another one. Rather, alternating every other day. So if you have any problem with that, let him know. Otherwise, he'll probably do something like that. In the mornings, yeah. But they might go in the afternoon, too. and you might not be able to finish in the morning. And the other thing is that the last, well, the first session tried to alter the way the period before and after the Dharma talk works so that people could not be going in and out of the Zendo before the Dharma talk and after the Dharma talk. And I found out from Gabe that It didn't work the way I hoped.

[02:02]

In other words, just a few people stayed in the Zendo after the period of Zazim before the talk. Same afterwards? Yeah. So, this may sound like a threat, but it's more just actually what I think is best. I think it's not worth giving the Dharma talk. If, in fact, virtually everybody leaves the Zendo before and leaves after, I think it's better to have continuity of the morning meditation. So, if, in fact, that's what happens, and I think I'll just stop giving Dharma talks until people stop running in on the Zendo. Yes? After one period of Zazenini bathroom break? Yeah, well, particularly the first period, I don't have sympathy for, like, almost everybody needs laying the Zendo after one period of sitting, but maybe that's the case.

[03:10]

If that's the case, then there's no Dharma talks, if that makes it that way. Because that isn't the way it is for all Canadians, right? Because the last session, we didn't have a Dharma talk, and I didn't see that phenomena of, I went to the first period after breakfast during that session, right? I went to all the periods, and I didn't see any mass exodus happening during kinyin. So if the Dharma talk produces a mass exodus effect, I think I won't do it during session. So we'll see. But that'll be the reason for stopping them. If, in fact, it disturbs the concentration of the group, At the time, though, during that last session, when that would change, I'm not sure. So, why does it take off? We have to probably even have 40 days. During which session? The last one, yeah.

[04:12]

During the three days? Yeah. Yeah, but the three days, I'm saying, the three days, there wasn't this. No, the three days, there wasn't, I didn't see, like, I stayed for quite a few kidneys myself, and I was never, like, the only person there. There was always, you know, several other people. Every period I did came in. And when I left, there was some of the ones, I guess, like the 15-minute ones, almost everybody left. Was there tea? The one after tea, almost everybody left. Huh? Yeah, during the one after tea, almost everybody left. But also that was in the afternoon after, I think, people were pretty concentrated. So I'm just concerned if the talk creates this big hubbub in the middle of the day that causes everybody to need to run around Tazahara for whatever reason, then maybe it's better just to sit. And we still have doxone. So we'll see. But I think this is the last session, and it's really important that...

[05:12]

It's more important that you settle completely than give a Dharma talk, I think. Since almost all of you are going to be coming to Dougson anyway, almost every day. Okay, that's my feeling, so. Any problems with that? I mean, probably, but any real problems with that? Yes? What? No? Did you want to do something? What do you want the mic? Put it away. I need to put it... I don't want to be... I don't want attention. That's not what... It's okay what I'm doing. It's okay. All right.

[06:20]

So let's see if this works. Does this work at all? Do you think it helps? Do you have it on? Okay. Yes? Meg, do you have your address? Christina? You have to do it when? But not necessarily before and after the Dharma talk. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Okay. Uh-huh. Yeah, so... And you don't feel distracted. Are other people doing that for that reason? Yeah.

[07:24]

Huh? Yeah. Before and after... No, but maybe one or the other is wrong. Right. Well, it looks like that accounts for... I don't know. What's going on? We'll see. If, in fact, the situation is such that that's what's happening, then I don't think, I think maybe not have dharma talks. Just have dharma talks when we don't have session. Maybe. But... I mean, if in fact everybody has good reasons for leaving, go right ahead and then leave for your good reasons. But in fact, the effect of it is that, but that didn't happen, that I did not observe this happen during the last one. Okay, so it doesn't happen during the three days of sitting that everybody was leaving as end of.

[08:30]

So if it is different from that, then I think that the nature of the talking longer and or whatever else is going on, it creates this effect of dispersing the energy in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right, right. Can you agree with this? I'll give a talk first day, okay? And see what happens. If I talk a real long time and then people sort of feel like, oh, next day she's going to talk long. If in fact what happens is what I can worry about, then I'll stop. So you can work it out however you want, but I'm just saying that if I experience this This everybody leaving and everybody coming back and then everybody leaving and everybody coming back, which I've seen other times, literally, everybody leaving, everybody coming back, everybody leaving, everybody coming back.

[09:39]

That to me is a major problem for the Sashi. So whatever happens, we'll see. And if it doesn't happen, then I don't need to stop giving the talks. But if it does happen, I think emphasis should be on the sitting rather than the talking. That's my feeling, since this last roundup. It's time for you guys to completely realize enlightenment. How do you feel if something really has to go back and then leave you during your talk? How do I feel? I think it's a real good idea. Would that be a reason for you to stop giving talks? No, it would not be a reason for me to stop giving talks. Matter of fact, if everybody left during my talks, there would not be a reason for me to stop getting talks, unless you left in such a way that disturbed your concentration of sasheen.

[10:41]

Then I should stop talking about the sasheen and ask you what you're here for during zazen. Anyway, I'd like to say that to you then. I... I just sat that two-day session and this, you know, that was fine. As far as I can tell, the only problem with that session was I just cracked that kind of straggly feeling in the afternoon. I wish there was some way for us to sit all day together. But taking care of the house of harm means we have to have a work period. So we're going to have one. But I think the way we worked it out is that, except for the servers, everybody will be able to be in this endo together for all the periods. It's pretty good. Bande said she was pretty good. Yes. You're not hearing me?

[11:48]

Okay. How about if I talked like this, do you hear that? No? Do you hear him? You don't hear me right at the end. Oh, I see. As long as you can hear me. You people can hear him. Okay. All right. So, back to the two kinds of Zengy and so on. So we got to this place in the text, which is one of the important places, or the most important place in the text, where it talks about the essential part of Zazen. And what's his name, Mr. Sungseh?

[12:48]

He says, once you have settled your posture and regulated your breathing, you should relax your abdomen. Do not think of any good or evil whatsoever. Whatever thought occurs, be aware of it. As soon as you're aware of it, it will vanish. If you remain for a long time forgetful of objects, you will naturally become unified. This is the essential part of svachan, sitting meditation, sitting zen. Honestly speaking, svachan is the dharma gate of ease and bliss. And Thalmaseri translates that as, Where is it? Oh. In spite of the fact that... He calls, instead of saying the Dharma gate of repose and bliss, he says, a scientific way to peace and bliss.

[14:00]

He translates that Dharma is scientific. Instead of the Dharma gate of repose and bliss, a scientific way to peace and bliss. And then Sun Tzu says... If there are many people who become ill for the practice, it is because they do not take proper care. So actually, this is, I think, a kind of interesting point that Sunset points out, that people can get sick from doing this practice involuntary. And when Dogen Vangie wrote his first and second He did not mention this. He didn't bring up this business about that you can get sick from practicing it improperly. He did hardly say, remember, you know, some other places that you can get sick from practicing it improperly. And he also says that if you eat, if you try to sit on a full stomach, that can create conditions for illness.

[15:05]

So, that's one of the reasons why we have breaks after meals. Although some people do sit zazen right after meals, I guess maybe it's okay for some people, but... Anyway, maybe some people don't have a full stomach, they just have a little bit in their stomach. And then, the Fugan Zazen new wine, which is called the Tempuku, Tim Ream calls it the tempura, tempura version, which I think is a kind of nice variation, pronunciation. Tempuku? T-E-N-P-U-K-U. Of course he meant vegetarian tempura. Yeah, yeah. I guess there was a baked elastin, right? There could be a dairy tempura. Dairy tempura.

[16:10]

Isn't baked elastin kind of dairy tempura? Isn't it? Yeah, but it's got a cluster in it, right? So, Dogon Zenji says, well, I can hear that. Dogon Zenji says, once you have settled your posture, you should regulate your breathing. Whenever a thought occurs, be aware of it. As soon as you're aware of it, it will vanish. If you remain for a long period, forgetful of objects, you will naturally become unified. This is the essential art of zazen. The art of this kind of zazen is the Dharma gate of grace and grace. Okay?

[17:11]

So, one key expression there is be aware of it. So, be aware of it means It's shorthand for a classic Buddhist meditation, which is called watching thoughts until the mind becomes unified. It's an exercise of watching thoughts until the mind becomes unified. It's a way of watching thoughts by which you enter the one practice, samadhi. It's a way of watching thoughts such that you enter the samadhi of oneness. It's a way of watching thoughts so that you enter into the awareness of the interdependence of all life and the emptiness of all phenomena.

[18:12]

Okay? Be aware of it. equals, please try letting it go, the thought. The thought arises, please try, please try letting it go. Let it go and just look. So here you hear echoes of, in the scene, in what you look at, you just look. You let the scene go and just look. This is Buddha's instruction on how to train your awareness into suchness. This is Daoshin's instruction. This is Sun Tzu's instruction. And this is the instruction of Dovinu Zenji, Ketukhanza Zenji One. Now, when I hear this kind of talk, and when I used to hear this kind of talk, I get nervous because

[19:22]

There's so little in all the Dogen world where he actually gives you some instruction of how to meditate. This is like perhaps the only place where he does. But he does in this place. He tells you, well, actually this place, and also I just quoted from Gakudoya Jinshu, There's a place where he also tells you how to pay attention to objects. How do you pay attention to objects, Susan? Susan Rice? Yeah, see the scene, hear the hurt? What's another way to put it, Susan O? Just look. What's another way to put it, Linda? Huh? Let go. Let go. Got a thought?

[20:24]

Let it go. That's called be aware. When you let the thought just be the thought, when you let the thought go, when you just look at the thought, that's called be aware. When you're aware of, when you look at the thought like that, what happens to the thought according to some sense? It vanishes. He says, if you stay in that kind of presence with your experience for a long time, the mind becomes unified. In other words, subject and object become unified. You've entered into oneness. And Dawshin says this. Did Buddha say that too? How did he say it, Marsha? But how do you say that when you train yourself into, in the scene of just a scene, how do you say that the mind becomes unified? Right.

[21:28]

You want to identify with yourself and it means the mind has unity. It's not anymore you identifying it. The mind is unified by just letting the objects of thought be that way. The mind becomes unified. You stop identifying. And then there's not a here and there or in between. Which means also, according to the mind of Buddha, is when the consciousness, the object, and the organ are empty. All empty means all interdependent. All interdependent means that they're one. When they're one, the experience is empty. And each one of them is empty because they're interdependent. OK? In Zen, there's a, you've probably heard about this, the teaching, or the teaching, but also the exercise called no thought. You've heard of no thought in Zen?

[22:30]

It predates song set. And no thought, in sudden practice, no thought is both a state of where there's no thought, But no thought doesn't mean there's no thought, like there isn't any thought. It means that the thought is unified, that there's no objects of thought. That's called no thought. No thought is also, however, the way, the practice by which you realize no thought. So what you practice and what you are to achieve are the same in sudden Zen practice. So no thought is the state of objectless awareness, of unified mind, but it is also the way of dealing with objects such that you realize objectlessness. It's a way of letting go of objects so that you're in a state of where objects are let go.

[23:39]

It's a way of not attaching the objects, which is the same as being in a state where you're not attached to objects. So the description of the original way the mind is and the program pertaining of the sinic. This is contained in Sunksa's teaching and is contained in Dogen's first version of Ukanza Zengyi. First version. By first, I mean the first that we have, right? There's another one that we lost, right? Which is called... What's it called? I forgot the name of it. Anyway, it's a very early one. In the Tempuku version, what you have here is a cultivation of traditional practice in Zen called the cultivation of notepad. This was Songz's program, and it's also Dogen's program in the first version of .

[24:43]

OK. So now we come to the second version of , where in the same place where previously it said, when thoughts arise, be aware of it. And be aware of it is shorthand for all I said. which has this lineage going all the way back to Buddha, standard Buddhist meditation. In a lot of commentaries on this text, they call this a classical Zen practice. I am the first person I know of that's connected, that classical Zen practice to Vasubandhu and Shakyamuni. I think it's a classical Buddhist practice, the teaching of the Buddha, teaching of suchness. But definitely people have noticed that it's an ancient Zen practice way before Sunset.

[25:54]

Okay, so now we have Dogon Zenji is saying, in the place of all that stuff about forgetful of objects and mind becoming unified, in that same place, after you know, after you're settled, you settle into this steady, immobile sitting position, and then you think of not thinking. How do you think of not thinking? Non-thinking. This in itself is the essential art of Zazen. This is not... jhana practice. In other words, it's not a kind of concentration where you concentrate on a fixed object to attain concentration. It is a samadhi. It is concentrated, but it's not just concentrating on an object. It's concentrating, it's watching the object in such a way that you don't just watch it and grab onto it, but you watch it and you focus on it without grabbing it.

[26:56]

You're concentrated on what's happening, you're aware of what's happening, but you also let it go. So it's really a mindfulness practice that has concentration with it. You have concentration and mindfulness here, not just concentration. You're watching the object, not just focused on it. And as you watch it and leave it alone, you eventually understand what it is, namely that it's you. So there's two ways which I'd like to talk about reading this section.

[28:11]

And before I talk about those two ways, I just want to say something to you, which I think you already know, and that this section of the Phukhan Zazengi is an extract from a Zen story, from a koan. The koan is about he was sitting in meditation and a monk said to him what kind of thinking what kind of mind is there when you're sitting immovably Yashon said, think of not thinking, or thinking of not thinking.

[29:25]

The monk said, how do you, or how think of not thinking, or how is it to think of not thinking? And Yashon said, non-thinking. So Dogen Zenji has now taken a Zen story and put it in place, part of a Zen story, and put it in place of what was previously one of the few places where he actually explains the ceremonial procedure, the ritual of how to practice meditation. And he's put a Zen story in the place of it. OK, now, should I stop and ask questions now, or should I present one? So there's two people kind of over there.

[30:27]

They're kind of in a row. Do you want to ask a question, too? This row has got questions. So one question here is, is this new practice or this new description or whatever is here, the same as the old practice of forgetting objects? Is this think of not thinking, how do you think of not thinking, non-thinking? Is that serving the same function in terms of description and or practice as the old teaching of forgetting objects and practicing no thought and attaining unity of mind? The same practice, same description. If Dogenu Tenji is like we usually think he is, namely not talking about a practice that gives enlightenment, but an enlightened practice where the practice and enlightenment are one, then the description of the state

[31:40]

of not moving, of sitting unmovingly, and the practice of it would be the same. The practice of just sitting still and the state of just sitting still. The state achieved through just sitting still and the practice of just sitting still would be the same. So is that description and that practice the same as the state of no mind and the practice of no mind? Is it the state of the practice of the unifying mind and is the same as the state of the unified mind and the practice of the unifying mind? That's the question. And the first way of reading this thing, I would say, looks to me like, yeah, it is both the state of an object being forgotten, it is both the state of a unified mind, in unmoving stillness.

[32:42]

And it is the practice of unmoving stillness and the practice of the unifying mind. It is both the state of objectless awareness and the practice of objectless awareness. And how come You haven't heard this before. This is not well known. I mean, if I'm actually wrong, and some people might actually disagree with me, and that's why you haven't heard about it, because they didn't want to tell you what was wrong. But if this is correct, that this is part of what's going on here, that he's actually describing a state of no thought, of where the mind is unified, and there's no objects. And he's also telling you the practice which is that.

[33:46]

This is not well known in what his disciples are teaching this all over the place. And one of the reasons why maybe that's the case is one possible reason for this is that then this practice here in this version of the text and the earlier version of the text, particularly this version of the text, looks different from the earlier version and looks different from Tsumsa. So then you can say, now there, this is the essential art of zigzazen, this non-thinking of the social school, which everybody in the social school, even in the office of the school, they say, non-thinking, that's our practice. But they don't tell you that that non-thinking is the same as traditional Zen practice in all over China for hundreds of years. They don't tell you that. Why come? Anyway, they don't. So maybe they want people to think that the non-thinking of the Soto school of Dogen Zenji is something that you can't find all over the Zen world in authentic practice places.

[34:56]

It's an original thing, and you can only get it at the Soto Zen store. It's don't accept substitutes. Maybe that's the reason. Anyway, this is, in one sense, this is just about good enough if this practice is what I just sort of described it to be, namely It's a practice which is the state of a unified objectless awareness, which is the self-fulfilling samadhi, which relieves all suffering. But now, in a way, forget about why other people haven't told you what Dogen Zen is up to. He did do something a little different here by putting the story in. This is the second way of reading this or understanding this. Instead of putting a kind of like a thing to do in there, it sounds like a thing to do, he more has put in there like the state itself.

[36:07]

But again, if it's Sudden Zen, the state is the same as the practice. So in the previous thing, he's putting in a practice which is the same as the state. The practice of being aware and forgetting objects. Being aware, being aware, being aware, being away, where objects vanish. And then, in that state of objects not being out there anymore, again, when objects vanish, ladies and gentlemen, doesn't mean that you don't see anything anymore. It's just that nothing's out there. I'm not out there anymore. You forget me as an object. Now I'm like... You don't know what to do with me anymore because I'm not an object. It's like that. You forget objects. You don't forget me. You fold my hand and take me, you know, shopping. You buy me a book, you know, for a present to hear. But there's no object out there. You don't give the book to somebody else.

[37:12]

You forget objects and you stay in that forgetful place for a long time. a minute or a year or whatever. You stay there for a long time and you become unified. Okay? That's the practice which produces this unity. Dogen starts with the unity, but that's also the practice. Unity is non-thinking. Non-thinking. But it also is a story. It's part of the story. So the funny thing is here that you have now, in the place of a practice to achieve freedom, you now have the freedom described, which is the practice. But it's also historic. So now what you have here, and this is what I think is cool about what you did here,

[38:18]

And I think it really is, in a way, it kind of makes up the improvement. It's just kind of more intimate, in a way. Because he's taken the story of one of his own family and put it in there. And now, what you can do is that you have this non-thinking, right? Which is this forgetfulness of objects, this unified mind, right? But you meditate on the non-thinking by the word non-thinking in the story. And you meditate on the words sitting still. that yaozhan was doing by sitting still. So your sitting is a meditation on the story, which brings this dimension of intimacy into the practice.

[39:28]

So your sitting is the meditation on yaozhan's sitting. And your meditation on the word, non-thinking, is your way to practice non-thinking. This way of understanding doesn't do away with other things going on at all. It just adds another dimension of, I would say, color and dynamism to the process. without making anything unusually, and leaving it just as a regular practice, which has this lineage going way back in commonality with a lot of other Zen teachings. This is not Rinzai or Soto. This bread, by the way. I think that's enough for now. Practicing non-thinking, the contemplation of the story about non-thinking, and studying the meaning of Yaoshan sitting still.

[40:43]

What is Yaoshan sitting still? How do you study Yaoshan sitting still? You can study Yaoshan sitting still by sitting the sashi. You know, this is a koan, a Zen story, called Yaoshan sitting still. How do you study the koan of Yaoshan sitting still? You sit still. You can do keeneas. You can even go to the bathroom. But basically, you meditate on Yaoshan sitting still by you sitting still. And you meditate on Yaoshan going to the toilet. That's another koan. Yaoshan goes to the toilet. You meditate on it by going to the toilet. But there's no stories about yashant being distracted, so you can't meditate on that by being distracted. And you meditate on non-thinking by studying the word non-thinking.

[41:47]

So I think that this is exactly the same practice, but bringing this kohan into it. I think really, really enlivens it in a way. And the funny thing is that I tried to talk and discuss with people this koan, this part of the Fukanzazengi and this koan for a long time, but I've always felt that people don't want to talk about it too much. But the more it's different to present this teaching in terms of karma, just to look at this part of the Fukanzazengi, people don't like it. It seems, I guess... too intellectual. When I talk about karma, it's psychological and people I think can identify with that better. But just to talk about thinking itself in these terms, it's too cold. And after someone said to me, why is the Pukkanza Zengi so cold? And for me, this is part of why I would say that what non-thinking is, is loving kindness. this is okay this is real loving kindness which goes beyond your unlimited idea of what loving kindness is okay so I think that's enough for now I'll just say one more is that

[43:12]

I still feel good about the first way of reading this, in terms of it being both, that Dogen's pointing, in the first text he's pointing at the practice, which is the realization of being forgetful of objects, to realize the unified mind, the practice of no thought, which realizes no thought of the Buddha. and switching to talk about the state of non-thought, the state of non-thinking, as a way to practice. I still think that's a reasonable way to approach the second text. And the first text definitely requires that the second text brings in the context of the story, and the context of the story lends this dynamism to the situation. It's a bigger situation now because you have a narrative and you have history.

[44:17]

You have history embedded in the meditation instruction, whereas before, the description is in some sense trans-historical, right? Although this teaching has been given over time, there's no history in the story. Can you see that? It's the same instruction from Chakyamuni up to Dogen. But when he brought the story in, history comes into the story. And history helps you understand the dynamism of a meditation instruction, which is trans-historical. But also, history helps you understand the meditation instruction, but the meditation instruction helps you understand history. And the meditation instruction helps you understand the Zen ancestors. Because somebody could just walk in the door and give you this teaching on suchness, and it would be a good teaching. But aside from me telling you these stories of history, the instruction by itself doesn't contain that dynamism of the past and the present.

[45:22]

OK? Now, let's have this roll. So, Brooks, are you next? Did you ever have any hand raised? Yeah. Something good, Brooks, then you, and then Humboldt. Is that it? Oh, okay. Number one, Brooks. I was talking about concentration and mindfulness practice. Yeah. Yeah. One question about that? Okay, so there's a kind of concentration practice which is called jnana, right? Jnana practice, which the Chinese transliterated that by saying chana. Chana got abbreviated to chan. And then the word chan got applied to, of all people, our ancestors, who were not practicing. Sometimes they practiced jnana, but that wasn't really their practice.

[46:28]

In dhyana practice, you pick an object, for example, like the breath, and you focus on the breath with the intention of developing concentration by focusing on that object. It is object-oriented. It is object-oriented. The object is over there. You bend your mind onto the object for the beneficial result of concentration. That's a concentration practice. Mindfulness, of course, you have to be somewhat concentrated to practice. Otherwise, you won't be able to know what you're looking at. But mindfulness, watches, studies, and realizes the nature of what it's looking at. Mindfulness is wisdom. But of course, if you're distracted, mindfulness doesn't get a foothold. You can't look at anything because you keep moving what it's studying. So concentration is like moving into the house. Mindfulness is, what kind of a house is this? Without saying what kind of a house this is, you could say what kind of a house. And then there are meditations like, well, what kind of house is this? Or who is this, right? So mindfulness starts to uncover and discover what the thing is once you are concentrated.

[47:37]

So what we have here is a samadhi practice where there's concentration and there's awareness, but there's also discovery of reality. Mindfulness is wisdom. And the sitting meditation that Dogen's teaching is not jhana practice. Sometimes it's translated as not stepwise practice. But the jhanas are stepwise jhana. First, second, third jhana. And then fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth jhana. First, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth. There's nine jhanas, right? in the different objects, in the stepwise. It's not that kind of thing. But we are concentrated. We don't apply our concentration to the stepwise thing, except, you know, if it's used by our founder, Shakti Muni Buddha, did do that.

[48:40]

He was in that club, the jhana practice club. And he did recommend to some of his disciples that they practiced jhana. But we're saying now, this practice is not jhana practice. This is the dharmic gate of reposing bliss practice. We're talking about the essential aspect of sitting concentration. And that is that you see that objects are not out there. That you look at things until they vanish as objects. And that's the mindfulness does for you. Mindfulness shows you emptiness. Mindfulness is wisdom. Mindfulness... No, it's not optimal. Mindfulness applies to whatever's happening. So now you can... So you can... That's what matters...

[49:47]

Did you say you could be aware of something that's going to vanish when you go on to something else? Yes. No. Once the object vanishes, nothing else will appear. You have experiences, but there's no more objects. Once I disappear to you, once the object Reb disappears, then when Reb appears to you again, he's not an object anymore. You are now in a state of forgetfulness of objects. You have now entered into an objectless meditation. Your mindfulness has become intense enough so that you no longer are putting objects over there. You no longer think I'm out here all by myself, existing separately from... So then it isn't that some other object is going to appear and it's going to be out there. If that happens and you've slipped out of the state of forgetfulness and you're back into the state of remembering that you're Brooks and you're non-Rev.

[50:57]

And Rev's out there and you're over there. You're back into here, there, and in between. So things are always coming and going. The question is, are they objects? The question is, is the mind unified? and mindfulness is a way for the mind to become unified. Concentration is if you concentrate on an object without mindfulness, the mind will not necessarily become unified. There are examples of people who are very good at concentrating on objects, and they for, what do you call it, The latest we've heard from them is they still think objects are out there. They still do not have their mind unified. And when the mind is not unified, it suffers. Because then there is an identification of self with the object. There is a here and a there and in between. And this is the meaning of suffering. But when there is no here, there, or in between, this is the end of suffering.

[52:02]

So concentration without mindfulness does not liberate you. However, it can put you into heaven. We talked about that before, you know. Like, it can put you at Tassajara. You people have practiced quite a bit of concentration to get here, whether you know it or not. And now as you got here, you're practicing more, so you're feeling better. Okay? So you're doing fine, and if you get in much more concentrated, you're going to go into some kind of blissful place. Okay? But if you don't realize the unity of mind, if your mind doesn't become unifull, then you're still subject to anxiety, and when the results of your good karma end, you're still vulnerable to greed, hate, and delusion, because you haven't uprooted the source of greed, hate, and delusion, which is the ununified mind, which is the dualistic mind. No.

[53:09]

I'm saying that kind of concentration practice is not enough. Jyana practice is not enough. But you could say that this practice of looking at the object, you could say you'd say this is a concentration practice which has mindfulness with it, and that you could call the combination of the concentration and the mindfulness, you could call that a concentration practice. That's a concentration practice which is just trying to focus on the object to create a certain quality of healthy, wholesome bliss. That kind of concentration is not sufficient to liberate. But when it's in combination with mindfulness, the proper kind of mindfulness, it can liberate. Oh, Meg? I think I remember once saying that non-thinking would be better categorized as neither thinking or not thinking or beyond thinking. Beyond thinking?

[54:15]

I'm sorry, neither thinking or not thinking. Neither thinking or not thinking. Neither thinking or not thinking would be swell. Kind of bulky. And what was the other one? Beyond thinking would be fine too, but also slightly more bulky than just plain old non-thinking. But what you can do is you can have non-thinking that have two footnotes. Yeah, you can do that. What to do to not thinking and not thinking? What's the difference between not thinking and non-thinking? Not thinking is the opposite of thinking. Non-thinking is not the opposite of thinking. Non-thinking is thinking of not thinking. Non-thinking is thinking of not thinking.

[55:16]

Not thinking is not thinking. Okay. And now the blackboard. So you have thinking. Here we go. Thinking. Thinking. Not thinking. Non-thinking. Okay? Thinking is not not thinking. Right? Non-thinking is not just thinking. Non-thinking is not not thinking.

[56:20]

Non-thinking is thinking not thinking. Okay, so this does not equal this, and this does not equal that, and this does not equal this. But when you think all the way, that's not thinking. Total thinking is not thinking. Non-thinking is that total thinking, which is not thinking. Where's the self? The self, well, self's right here. Self does thinkies. Give me a s. You know about the self that does thinking? Got one? Okay. Also, self does not thinking. You ever do that? Sometimes. Matter of fact, jhana practice.

[57:26]

In dhyana practice, you can get into this not thinking. Self is still there. Doing it. I'm in dhyana land. I'm happy. I'm blissed out. Non-thinking. There's no self here. Non-thinking is when you think so hard. There's no self. And thinking like that gets to be thinking like not thinking. That's non-thinking. And this non-thinking is when the things you think about are thought about so intensely that you let go of them. When you let go of them, there's no self and thinking anymore. So it's the same thing. Okay. Okay? But those other translations are fine.

[58:31]

You can put beyond thinking down there. You can put beyond thinking here. But beyond thinking, if beyond thinking is not thinking, you're not beyond thinking. Of course, if non-thinking is thinking, you're also not beyond thinking. Beyond thinking has to be equally comfortable with thinking or not thinking. That's non-thinking. Non-thinking is comfortable with thinking and not thinking. It is comfortable with thinking, not thinking. It's also comfortable with not thinking and thinking, not thinking, thinking. All those possibilities are comfortable with a mind that's free. So it's beyond thinking. It means if you're beyond thinking, it's like dive into the world of thinking.

[59:35]

It's like, you know, thinking for most people is karma. The definition of thinking is karma, right? I mean, the definition of karma is thinking. You got that before, right? Definition of karma is thinking. Definition of karma is thinking. Definition of karma is thinking. Nice Chinese character. Rice patty in mind. The design of the mind is thinking. That's the definition of the mind. The design of the mind is the thinking. That's the world of karma. That's the world of misery. Because you have that thinking plus a self. And that reminds me of the story about, you know, the story about the fox, the rabbit, and that bear who lived in the South.

[60:49]

Yeah, bear-rabbit, bear-bear, and bear-fox. The fox and the bear always wanted to catch the rabbit. And to make a long story short, they finally were successful. And after they caught the rabbit, the rabbit said, well, they were discussing how to kill him before they cooked him. The fox had these various excruciating ways of doing it, and the bear said, I want to just knock his head off. Clear off. And the rabbit, hearing these discussions, said, okay, okay, go ahead, please knock my head off. Or any of that earth stuff you want to do, please, you know, pull my toenails out. Or send me to a monastery, whatever, anyway, anything. But just please, don't throw me into the prayer patch.

[61:51]

He just kept saying that and saying that. Finally, I thought, okay, let's throw him in the prayer patch. I threw him in the prayer patch. At first he made these horrific screams of pain and agony and went to the death throes of the most excruciating death. And then a voice, a happy voice came up in the Briar Patch and said, Born and raised in the Briar Patch, born and raised in the Briar Patch. Anyway, when you realize non-thinking, You can, you're beyond thinking, so you can jump into the world of karma because you understand it thoroughly. You're free. You don't have to not be in the world of thinking. Okay? That's beyond thinking. Freedom from thinking. Okay? One more? I'm thinking of the alignment that's like, we don't necessarily notice that they're actually important, but you just look at it.

[62:56]

you know, where it says, when Buddhas are truly Buddhas, they don't necessarily think, I'm Buddha. It says, when Buddhas are truly Buddhas, they don't necessarily think, quotes, I'm Buddha. They don't think that thought necessarily. But I think not necessarily is better than that they don't. They don't think that thought necessarily. But they might. When Buddhas are truly Buddhas, they don't necessarily think, I'm Meg. But they might. But they do think various thoughts like, I'm Meg, I'm a woman, it's Tuesday, things like that. They do think thoughts like that. But they wouldn't think I'm a Buddha more than they think it's Tuesday. That's all it's saying. Would they think that?

[64:02]

They don't necessarily think, oh, there aren't any objects out there. Just to think, oh, there aren't any objects out there. Oh, objects aren't there all by themselves. That's similar to, I'm Buddha. So when you actually don't have objects out there, you might not think, oh, there's no objects out there. Oh, I have realized objectless awareness. Oh my God, it has happened to me. I have had a breakthrough here. this is like a new world you don't when you are in a new world you don't necessarily notice that you're in the new world you don't necessarily think I'm in a new world but you are in a new world whether you think so or not and you go on actualizing that new world okay So I learned now you press this thing here like that.

[65:07]

Okay, Troy. The problem is not so much doing it once, you mean? Right. Right. So the problem for you is continuity. Well, I have one nearby called Sashin. Because in Sashin, see, you have the opportunity of having your sitting be the way you study Yaoshan sitting. You sit still. Now, your sitting still is not Yaoshan sitting still, but it's the way you study Yaoshan sitting still.

[66:09]

And Yaoshan sitting still is letting the scene just be the scene. And also while you're sitting, you can meditate on either non-thinking, you can meditate on the word non-thinking as a way to actually study letting the scene just be the scene. The phrase, the short phrase, non-thinking, reminds you of this practice of letting the seeing just be the seeing, letting the heard just be the heard, let the taste just be the tasted. So you have that word there, non-thinking, which reminds you, let go, don't manipulate, just let it be. All that stuff, all that teaching is concentrated on that koan for you by saying the word non-thinking reminds you of the state of non-thinking. And your sitting reminds you of Yaoshan sitting. And what's Yaoshan sitting like? It's non-thinking. So by your sitting and thinking of that one word, non-thinking, you capitalize all these teachings.

[67:13]

That would be one way you could do it. As a matter of fact, you all could do that. I think that'd be fine, yeah. Well, I think it would be fine at Tassajara. And when you're going to leave Tassajara, I might want to suggest you do a little bit different practice. Well, you might try to widen your view a little bit to take a little bit more into context of the scene. So like if you're driving a car, it might be, you know, maybe not so good to be just saying, okay, just like red, let the red just be the red, rather than red in the back of a car means maybe the car is going to stop soon, you know.

[68:16]

So this practice is particularly good for... monks who have set aside worldly affairs for a little while and aren't driving you know vehicles 60 miles an hour down the freeway in the freeway you have to back up a little bit and and maybe not just let the red just be the red or the green just be the green or the flashing light just be a flashing light you have to maybe look more at the at the wider context just like this story The story of Yaoshan has this double message. One side of it is that you're just trying to focus in and let your thinking just be your thinking. Let the sound just be the sound. But you also have this context. So you can resonate back and forth a little bit. And that might help you get ready to leave Tazahara and yet stay quite concentrated. But for now, you can just do that in a zendo and walking around Tassahara.

[69:22]

But again, maybe not when you're operating power tools. Then you might have to take the context into account more and not be quite so focused on the letting go aspect when you have something dangerous in your hand. You know, that make sense? But when you're doing walking meditation, eating, sitting, bowing, reading scriptures, walking down the road, talking to people, in those situations, there's no need to take into the... You can take a break from the big picture for a little while and just focus so that you can see. If you can let go and just look, so you can train yourself that way. Okay, I think Ambosau is next, and then Tracy. Okay. Yes, Ambosau?

[70:26]

I just want to underline what I think it was implicit. You said that in this transition, he's adding, not just the story, but there is a new element that he had, is the element that he had. Mm-hmm. That's a really important part of the story. Yeah. Pocket on itself. Yeah. It's a really open, open. Right. He's adding in the sitting still, in the story, and then also he says it at other places in the text. He says, as you know, in India and China, equally hold the Buddhist seal in addition to having their own styles of practice, but they all have this one practice of immobile sitting. Now, of course, they also all have the practice of the Bodhisattva precepts, and they also all have the vow to save all sentient beings. I mentioned that here.

[71:31]

But it's true, they all do have this, they all have this meditation practice. They all have this meditation practice, they all have the precepts, and they all have this great vow. But not only is he bringing the sitting into it, But he's making the sitting something you meditate on the sitting, too. The sitting becomes a theme, not just a practice. And the sitting itself is also a state. So it's very dynamic, what he's doing. And next is Tracy. He said, Right. Okay, here I go. When you relate to me or I relate to you, what does loving-kindness do?

[72:38]

Do I let you go? Do I pay attention? Do I watch you? When you practice loving-kindness, do I watch you? Do I pay attention to you? Do I give you my attention? Yes, I watch you. I feel aware of you. That's part of loving kindness. And also, I let you go. Those two things. We don't have much trouble not paying attention to people we don't care about. And letting them go. Unless we, like, hate them. But a lot of people, we just, you know, we don't pay attention to them and we're also not attached to them. When we start paying close attention to someone, then the love and hate the two main, well then confusion arises or surfaces. People you don't know, you don't feel that confused about. I guess. I don't. Do you? Do you feel confused about people you don't know? No. It's the people you know that you feel confused about, especially the people you're really close to you feel confused about. As you get closer and closer, you get more and more aware of your confusion.

[73:43]

And then, in order to cope with your confusion and anxiety, within that intimacy, you start pushing and shoving. Grabbing and punching. Unless there's a rule against it. Like, no grabbing. No hitting. So, you pay close attention. Be aware means be aware. It doesn't mean occasionally. It means be aware. It means really pay attention and look and watch. And don't grab. Don't attach. Don't attach also means don't reject. Greed and hatred are both attachment. One's holding and one's shoving. You relate to the objects, you're aware of them, but you don't poke them. Like it says in Zazen Shin, aware and illuminating without touching. Right? That's loving kindness, that's intimacy, that's real love and real respect.

[74:48]

I think there should be real warmth there. But the warmth develops through that. Because when you get into it with somebody, it's going to get hot or cold. And to stay with somebody when it gets cold, and to not mess with them when it gets hot, that's really warm. That's something about the warmth hidden here in this practice of non-thinking. When you actually get into it, You know, when it comes down to it, it requires warmth without attachment. It requires coolness without rejection. It requires coolness with intimacy. And anyway, is that enough for now? And next is, who's next? I don't remember who's next, so now we have these two people. Huh? Anzan, I think, was next.

[75:50]

So we have Anzan, Susan, Liz, and Tim. OK. Is there somebody else over there? No? OK. Ready. Anzan-san. Yes. I think there is, really. Yeah. So, when this dialogue comes in, when the story comes in, it's not like one million instructions, like, I could mute this. If you remain for a long period, forgetful of objects, you will naturally become unified. That is, there is not this world at the same time. There is not this world at the same time? Yeah, like, they do not think at the same time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Are you saying the second way of putting it is more dynamic?

[76:57]

Yes. Yeah, I think so. It's ironic too, yeah. Yeah, it has irony or paradox. It's very dynamic. Plus it also, the story, it's in the center of a story. It has people in it. So it just has the words but there's actually people there. So it has that element in it too. Plus also it has a middle line It has, you know, it's like, how is it? What do you know? What are you doing when you're sitting like that? So it has this sitting in there, which also brings in that when you do this meditation, when you do this practice, which he's describing, you're actually doing the sitting, which he happens to have in the story. So it has that element in it, too. Yeah. And then he also says, you know, what's happening in that state of where you're doing the sitting?

[78:00]

You're doing the sitting. You're reading a text about the sitting you're doing. And in this part of the text, it talks about your sitting, what you're doing. Then it says, what kind of state are you in when you're doing your sitting? And he says, thinking of not thinking. Okay? Then you say, then you know in the story, that it says, how do you think of not thinking? That line also is interesting, because that says... How is the way you practice not thinking? So Dogen says in a commentary on that story, that's right. When the monk says, how do you practice not thinking, he already answered his question. That's right. He's done. The story's over. But the guy says, non-thinking. So that's another dynamism there, too. So I think that the story, in some sense, is more dynamic and not so linear. It's not a linear story. The story is not linear. But even if it was a linear story, bringing the story in would make it less linear.

[79:05]

Because it's a story, it's a historical thing about something that's happening right now. That's not linear. The character of these stories, or the character of these stories, is that they are kind of not historic. And that's another character of these stories, is that these are special stories which are not really historical. They're historical stories, stories about things that happened in history before, but the story at the time it happened was not about history. But you bring that kind of story from history into the present to enliven the present with history. And particularly, you could do any kind of history, but you, especially in Buddhism, in Zen, you choose stories which weren't about history as your history. So it's very dynamic, and that's enough. I don't want to do any more now on this one, because it's getting late. Let me stop, please. May I? Let me stop. May I?

[80:06]

Okay, thank you. Next is, I don't know, Susan. Susan. It's not the same as running into itself, the backwards step. Yes. Liz. But look, you said, why wouldn't you face with Jim? Did you not think like using the mind and just discover the need for the mind or the point? I didn't, but that's true. Mindfulness is the way to use the mind to understand the mind. Yes. I don't know if I said that, but I'll take credit for it. It's something you can't understand? You can't understand it. Well, you can't, like, well, what do you call it? It's another phrase, right?

[81:06]

Knowing without, what is it, knowing without grasping? How does it go? Where are you? It knows without touching things. It illuminates without facing objects. It's like that. That's Hongjir's way of putting it. Where's Dogit's? Dogit, Dogit, where are you? Oh, there it is. Oh, there it is. Say it again, please. What feels like something you do? Be mindful? Yeah. Yeah, right. That's called... What do you call it? Training in mindfulness, which is acceptable. Don't worry.

[82:07]

It's all right. When you first start practicing mindfulness... When you first start practicing mindfulness, you're usually practicing mindfulness. That's okay. There is a phase of where you're practicing mindfulness, and that phase you're still doing karma. But as the mindfulness develops to its full maturity, you're not anymore doing the mindfulness. It's just that there is mindfulness. You're there, but you're not doing it. You don't get annihilated. You're not doing the mindfulness anymore, and also you're not doing the karma anymore. There's no karma. But you train in mindfulness, at first you're doing it. It's still thinking. Okay? Train, train, [...] and finally they're just thinking. That's non-thinking. And that's mindfulness at its mature level, where you're not doing the mindfulness, you're not doing the thinking. When you're not doing the thinking, that's called

[83:08]

thinking of not thinking. That's non-thinking. And, well, you're out of order there, but I'll call on you, because you don't ask very many questions lately. We can go? Yes, we can go. Let's go. And the people who have questions can come up here and talk to me afterwards.

[83:41]

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