One time somebody came and told me that she was anxious. And I'm making sure that a lot of people that I meet are anxious. And she was quite surprised to hear that. Because oftentimes we don't tell people we're feeling anxious. Partly because we don't think they want to hear about it. And they actually don't want to hear about it a lot of the time, because if we hear that other people are anxious and we don't feel anxious, if we don't feel anxious and we hear that other people are anxious, we may start feeling anxious. And if we know that if other people hear about our anxiety, and that may awaken them to their anxiety, that they might not like us for that.

[01:10]

So we think better not to bring it up. I just would that everyone is anxious. Every one is anxious. Not every body is anxious. Not every body is anxious, but every one body is anxious in the sense of every person who feels that they're separate from others, but they're individual, separate from others. If we have that feeling and we believe it, we feel anxious.

[02:14]

And most human beings have this, or have this sense of being separate from others. That's what it looks like, and we tend to believe it. believing it and afraid and uncomfortable. And also believing it, greed arises and aversion arises and confusion arises. And then we do things based on greed, anger, and delusion. And those actions make us prone to continue to separate and to feel anxious and do things based on that anxiety and so on, round and round.

[03:31]

Oh, yeah. I have this thought that bodies don't feel separate.

[05:26]

That most of what bodies are up to is actually feeling contact. Bodies are are sensitive to being touched. Or rather, bodies are sensitivities. They're sensitive to being touched. Skin is sensitive to being touched. The eyes are sensitive to being touched, the ears, the nose and the tongue. The body does not feel separate, it feels touched.

[06:45]

So, is that why when we contract the body Is that why when we contract from other, we really contract from our own body? Yeah. We contract from our own body. Our body tightens and contracts from its own function. And when the body is touched, the interaction between being touched and the sensitive living tissue is a place where consciousness arises. And this kind of consciousness is called Zen.

[08:00]

That's where living beings arise in contact between the physical world, which is other living beings touching us, non-living beings touching us, And that touching, consciousness arises. And it's consciousness of what touches our body. So now I have consciousness, or now I am a consciousness. I am a consciousness and I am body. And the consciousness arises being touched by the sight of you, and by the sound of my voice, and by the feeling of my body sitting on the ground, and the feeling of my hands touching each other.

[09:18]

These contacts, these being touched, could rise to my awareness. So, not exactly you that's touching me, but it's actually light that's bouncing off you that's touching me. But the sight of you is touching me. The sight of you isn't you. It's actually a physical thing bouncing off you, touching my body. but my body doesn't feel separate from you. The consciousness that arises from being touched by the light and so on, that consciousness can then evolve into a consciousness which is mental.

[10:39]

which arises not from the body being touched, but it arises from the consciousness which arises from the body that is being touched. And that mental consciousness also doesn't feel separate from you. But there's an idea and an appearance of separateness that can arise when that consciousness becomes conceptual. It can be an appearance or an image that people are at a distance from us. a distance from us and separate from us.

[11:44]

And when we believe that appearance of separation, which is actually arising from our body being touched, then we just start to become afraid of each other and shrink back from our own experience. But we're not actually shrinking back from our experience. Because even when we shrink back from our experience, that's our experience. We're not really afraid.

[12:54]

We're not really in pain. But it seems like we're afraid, and it seems like we're in pain. That's the way it looks from a certain perspective. But from another perspective, without changing anything, we're living in complete freedom and peace and harmony without changing the situation at all. Just looking at it in a different way.

[13:56]

Or just seeing it as a different thing. Just like I said to you now, our body arises from being touched. It's a different way to look. Excuse me, not our body arises from being touched, Our consciousness arises from our body being touched. Once two monks were talking and said to the other one that he read in the scripture that the fundamental affliction of ignorance was itself the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas.

[16:37]

So what is the fundamental affliction of ignorance? What is the fundamental ignorance? What are we fundamentally ignoring? Yes? The fact that we're not separate. We're ignoring the fact that we're not separate? Yeah. Ignoring that we're not separate. We're ignoring that we're interdependent. That's a fundamental thing we're ignoring. And when we ignore that we're independent, when I ignore that I'm dependent on you, when I ignore that you're dependent on me, I experience affliction.

[17:53]

Scripture says that that fundamental affliction of ignorance is itself the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas. The ignoring of interdependence is the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas. But don't Buddhas understand that, don't Buddhas teach that we're actually not separate and interdependent? Yes, they do. That's their knowledge. Their knowledge is Their knowledge is that we're not separate. Their knowledge is that we're interdependent. That's the knowledge of the Buddhas. And they also understand that interdependence is inconceivable.

[19:04]

They understand something that's inconceivable, that's beyond conception. In other words, nobody's conception can grasp the way we're interdependent. You can have some conception of how we're interdependent, that's fine, but that conception is not the interdependence. And we sometimes give examples, you know, we speak, and we speak them conceptually, and we give stories, which is fine. These stories are warm-ups. to actually experiencing, actually understanding and experiencing interdependence, which is beyond our conceptions. And Buddhas understand interdependence, which is beyond their conceptions of interdependence, too.

[20:09]

They realize they are and realize interdependence. That's their immutable knowledge. And it says that the ignorance of the interdependence is itself the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas. So you've got this ignorance here, and that ignorance itself is the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas. The ignorance of interdependence the knowledge which is not ignoring interdependence, is itself the ignoring of interdependence. Buddhist freedom, which comes from understanding interdependence, is itself the bondage of not understanding interdependence. Buddha's freedom and fearlessness is itself fear and ignorance.

[21:25]

Because Buddhas are not separate from ignorant, suffering people. They're not separate. Ignorant, suffering people themselves are all Buddhists. Not suffering. As you said, we are all Buddhists. Hmm? Are you a Buddhist? Buddhist? Buddhist? I'm not a Buddhist. No? He's clever, isn't he? Now, we're not all Buddhists. As far as I know, no, we're not all Buddhists. Some people might say we're all Buddhas, but it's just that we're not separate from Buddhas.

[22:44]

Before we understand that our state of fear and anxiety and selfishness and all that, until we understand that Buddha is itself the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas, we're not really Buddhas yet. Even before we understand that our fundamental affliction of ignorance is itself the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas, it's still already the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas. Whereas Buddhas do understand it. But they also understand that they are not separate from those who don't understand. They understand that. Whereas those who don't understand don't understand that they're not separate from the Buddha. But those who do understand, do understand always? Those who do understand, do understand always?

[23:49]

Yes. Do you? The Buddha understands always. Before that, it's actually possible to understand sometimes and not others. But Buddhas actually understand always. It's possible to reach a place where you don't lose the understanding anymore. Unchanging. The Buddha's knowledge is basically unchanging. The Buddha's knowledge is about also things that are changing. like living beings like us who are changing all the time. And we also are involved in ignorance. We're involved in ignoring our relationship. But we are related, so we're always changing. We can't stay the same even for a moment.

[24:51]

We can be away for a moment, and that's it. Then we change. But the truth of how we are doesn't really change. We're always interdependent. We're always changing. That is immutable. And Buddhas know that. But we are in a process of becoming Buddhas. We are being pushed and pulled to understanding. And our discomfort and fear is part of the process of pushing us towards understanding our true relationship. So is the reason that we perceive something is dangerous is because we're forgetting?

[25:55]

Is the reason we perceive that something's dangerous that we're forgetting? Forgetting the reality of interdependence. Is it because we're forgetting the reality of interdependence? Yeah. But you can't shortcut it by not to feel the fear. And you can't shortcut what? Well, I guess what I'm thinking is I could just remember that we're all connected. Right. And then I wouldn't have to feel afraid. Like, what I'm thinking about is I had a car accident last year. And right after I got hit, I remembered what Jennifer said about me. Everything that arises with complete relaxation. So I thought, I'm having a car accident. I might die. And then I thought, wow, I might die.

[27:04]

You know, this might be how I die. And I didn't feel contracted about it. And then the car flipped over, and I went to the hospital, and I was okay. I mean, I wasn't even sore the next day. I mean, I felt freaky and jittery, but I felt like in that moment when I was having the accident, I was remembering. not to contract against it. Great. But then sometimes I forget, sneak out by saying, well, I'd rather not feel afraid because it really makes me feel freaked out to be afraid. Then I somehow, like I just get stuck in that. I don't want to be in that place. Yeah, I think that once you contract and it is good to admit that you've contracted.

[28:05]

But sometimes you don't. Like in that case, it seems like you did quite well. You didn't contract in the situation of having the accident. And yeah, that was great. But if you are afraid, then telling yourself that you're skipping over the experience of the fear, and then flipping to some teaching about how you're interconnected, in a sense has been... the teaching of interconnectedness is being ignored when you don't respect the fear. So to respect the fear, just because it's happening, is to say, okay, I'm afraid. And if you understood interdependence and fear arose, you would say, yes, this is fear.

[29:18]

And you wouldn't feel that that fear was separate from fearlessness. But if you ignore the fear to try to go to fearlessness, then that's not a real fearlessness. So it's all right to be a coward then? It's all right to be a coward. Yeah. I find it interesting, Brigitte, you're pulling out the word, ignore from ignorance, because that seems to apply in intentionality Like if I'm ignoring my children's bad behavior? Yeah. Ignore is an action. Action arises from ignorance, but ignorance also arises from action. And so ignorance is more than just not.

[30:20]

It is actually a turning away from reality. So the monk says to the other monk, the scripture says that the immutable knowledge of Buddhas is itself, or that the fundamental affliction of ignorance is itself the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas. This seems very difficult to understand. And the other monk says, I don't think so. Watch. And there was a boy sweeping nearby And he said to the boy, hey you. And the boy turned his head. And then he said, this is the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas.

[31:27]

And then he said, what's Buddha to the boy? And the boy hesitated and got confused and walked off. And he said, this is the fundamental. Hey, you. And the head turns. This is the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. This is the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas.

[32:30]

Take your clothes off. That was the amenable knowledge of all Buddhas, too. Come up here and hit me. This is the fundamental affliction of ignorance. Now, if you had considered to come up here and hit me, I would have said something else, but... See the pivot? There's a pivot. Hey, you. There's a danger. But he turned. Say it anyway.

[33:36]

He pivoted. There was danger there. But it stuck. you get stuck. That's the fundamental affliction of ignorance. If somebody calls out and you freeze, that's the fundamental affliction of ignorance. But the turning is right there anyway. It's actually right there. It's just that you can't see it because you're acting out the drama of being stuck in the pivot. You're not turning in the crisis. You're stuck in the crisis. the Zen master says to you, what's Buddha? And you freeze. But before that, the Zen master said, hey you, and you turned, you didn't freeze. You didn't freeze. You were enacting your relationship.

[34:38]

And you wouldn't even try, but you did, and you didn't do it by yourself. You did it because of your body and because the teacher called. And your teacher's call and your body, it just, they turned together. You turned, the teacher turned, we all turned, history turned. So there was turning, there was leaping at the crisis of the teacher asking you a question and the danger of not getting the answer. All the dangers in that situation were there, but also there was being caught by the teacher's question. And he didn't get caught. He opened to the danger of, hey you, and he could move. Or there was opening and he could move, and he did move. And this is like what a Buddha can do. This is how a Buddha can be. With the support of everybody.

[35:39]

In the other case, working together with everybody, there's freezing, and there's affliction, and there's confusion. that's also working together with everybody. But it manifests as getting stuck in the crisis. But they're really inseparable. Same boy, same relationship, same conversation. One is a situation called ignorance and affliction. The other is a situation of being a Buddha. They're not separate. But you can say, This is ignorance. This is Buddha's knowledge. But they're not separate. One is really, what one is, is really the other. How about Buddha getting stuck? Yes.

[36:42]

You get to a point where you actually never forget, and because you never forget, you could forget. Because what you remember, you never forget, is that you're free. And everybody else is, so there's no problem of not being free. So you can actually don't have to be afraid anymore of being afraid. be afraid anymore of being stuck, of being afflicted, of getting sick. So Buddha took a body. We have this Buddha in our history of this world who lived in India, and Buddha took a body. And the Buddha had, you know, a body. And the body had kind of body experiences, like he actually had back problems.

[37:52]

Our Buddha, our historical Buddha had back problems. Sometimes he couldn't give the talks to the monks and have students give the talks for him. Just like you might, just like I might. The Buddha is not afraid to be in a human body. And towards the end of Buddha's life, There's a story that somebody gave him a meal, not, you know, maybe some, they say it was some kind of pork. I guess that it had become, what do you call it, rotten. And he ate it and got sick. The Buddha got sick. But the Buddha wasn't afraid to be in that sick body. Matter of fact, the sick body is itself the body of Buddha. Yes?

[38:55]

If the boy had stayed there and turned to the monk and said, would that have been the real knowledge of all Buddha? You mean in the second case? Yeah, instead of going away because he was nervous and didn't want to answer, he had turned and just said, I don't know. would that have been the mutable knowledge of a Buddhist? We can change the story. Because he stayed open to the nature. Yeah, we could say, so the story goes, the teacher says, hey you, he turns his head, he says, what's Buddha? And he says, I don't know. And the teacher says, I said, what's Buddha? And then he laughed. Didn't you hear me say, I said, what's Buddha? And then the boy comes over and says, are you okay, teacher? Then each time he said, that's the immutable knowledge of all Buddhas.

[40:03]

Then he might say, you know, I'm having trouble showing you how immutable knowledge of all Buddhas is the fundamental function of ignorance because this kid won't ignore it. Let me try it on you. It could have gone that way. That's a better story, I think. What did you say? That's a better story. You think so? Yeah. Well, I don't. I think it's good that he... But... This story follows another story where a teacher and student are talking and the teacher says to the student, all living beings have a consciousness boundless and unclear with no fundamental to rely on.

[41:08]

In other words, we have this kind of consciousness which is a result of our past karma and And this karmic consciousness sees people as separate from them. And again, sees interdependence, but only sees interdependence as our idea of it. It doesn't see the real interdependence, which is beyond all our ideas. And having this kind of consciousness comes from past karma, past actions, and leads to future actions based on this ignorance And so the statement of the teacher is, living beings just have this kind of consciousness. They don't have another kind. And it's boundless. It pervades all the things we do. And there's no fundamental you can rely on. And he says to the student, how would you test this? And in other words, how would you test to see if people have this fundamental affliction?

[42:14]

And in other words, and also, how would you agree of it? So the monk, the student says, if someone comes, I would say to him, hey, you. If they hesitate, I would say, all living beings just have karmic consciousness, fundamental. I mean, a person unclear with no fundamental to rely on. And the teacher says, good. But that story only tells one side of the test. That shows how we test to find that the person is stuck in this thing. You tell them, basically, everybody's stuck. You don't say that. You say, They hesitate. They're stuck. They can't turn in the pivot. You're being tested now. Ready? But not even, don't warn them. Just say, hey, you.

[43:15]

You're testing them. So you say, hey, you. And they hesitate. They hesitate a little. So they fail the test. You are stuck in karmic consciousness. But he didn't say that if they don't hesitate, if I say, hey, you, and they don't hesitate, he didn't mention that side. Because the teacher is saying, all sentient beings just have karmic consciousness. How do you test for that? Well, just relate to people and see if they hesitate. And if they hesitate, tell them where they're at. But if the teacher says, all sentient beings have a knowledge of the Buddhas, how would you test for that?" You say, well, I say, hey you. If they don't hesitate, I say, this is the knowledge of all Buddhas. So you can test others by just saying, is there any hesitation?

[44:24]

And if there is, then you say, okay, there it is. There is karmic consciousness. There is fundamental affliction of ignorance. Hesitation. Hesitation. Fear. What happens if you don't respond at all? Well, you will respond. We do respond. But the response can be so frozen that it's hard to see anything. That's a response. But the question is, in that response of walking the other way, was there any hesitation? Well, you don't hesitate.

[45:27]

Well, I think if you really don't hesitate, that's pretty good. And can you, and can you, and can you, and can that turn? Huh? Well, no. Don't hesitate. In my reaction, don't respond. Right. Well, you said, but you do respond. Walking away is a response. That's a response, a perfectly good response. The question is, is there, do you feel the danger? of the person saying, hey you, do you feel the danger and do you open to it? Is your walking away a closing to the danger of the hey you? No. That's good then. That's good. What's the difference between habitual action and hesitation?

[47:11]

Because if someone said, hey, you, and I automatically took a swing at that person, you know, it's just because that was my reaction. I'd be shutting off to the danger, but I wouldn't really be hesitating. I would just be taking a swing because that's my natural reaction. Did you hear what he said? Did you hear what he said? Did you repeat it? Could you repeat it? If someone says, hey you, and I automatically take a swing at them, just as a natural reaction, I wouldn't be hesitating, but I also would be shutting off from the danger of it. If you take a swing, wouldn't you be in more danger? Well, be in just as much danger, I think, the whole time.

[48:12]

Right. Yeah. But I would be shutting off from it if I was automatically taking a swing at somebody, really opening to the situation. But I wouldn't be hesitating. We really never do hesitate. But when we think we hesitate, that counts as hesitating. Because when we think we hesitate, we feel afflicted. And we feel afflicted because it's painful to miss out on our life, our unhesitating life. So if somebody says, hey, you, and you don't feel like you hesitate, and you swing at them, you might say, well, then wouldn't you be happy?

[49:14]

Because you didn't hesitate. But I would say if you really want an unhesitating response, you would also be with, if you're open to how unhesitating you were, you would also be open to the danger of hurting the other person. Because in the presence of... in the unhesitating presence of our life, our life doesn't actually hesitate. Life doesn't hesitate, really, but it looks like it's hesitating. And when it looks like it's hesitating, then we get into these violence. So somebody says, hey you, and you hesitate. You don't realize that you don't hesitate when they say, hey you. When they say, hey you, before you swing, you didn't hesitate.

[50:18]

When you swing, probably, I mean, if you swing to hurt them, it's because you missed that you didn't hesitate. In other words, you think, I hesitate to see that hey you as a wonderful gift in life. I hesitate to say yes to that hey you. So another story is hey you, yes Or like, hey you, yes? Hey you, yes? Hey you, yes? In other words, you noticed that you really didn't hesitate. I think that swinging, I assumed you meant swinging to hurt. That swinging is because we missed that we didn't hesitate. We thought we did hesitate. We thought to see that as a really pleasant thing to hear.

[51:23]

I hesitate to see that as You supporting me. I hesitate to see that hey you as giving my life. I actually am the unhappiness to you saying hey you to me. When you say hey you, I'm born. When you say goodbye, I'm born. When you say hello, I'm born. When you say I hate you, I'm born. I'm born in the arrival of your I hate you. Notice that I was born when you said, hey you. It's almost like my inattention is like my hesitation to appreciate what you offer to me. Then I feel scared, etc. Then I swing. But actually there really is no hesitation. Really, there's no hesitation.

[52:27]

And that's the immutable knowledge of all Buddhists, is that there is no hesitation. We actually are always, you know, people are touching us, our body responds, and we're awake. People are touching us, things are touching us. We're actually constantly in an unhesitating, responsive relationship with each other. There's no break in it. But if we miss out on it, if we ignore it, and get behind the ball, so to speak, Then we get scared and then we start swinging from our fear, which is arising from our ignorance. So the teacher says, hey you. He turns. He doesn't turn to swing. He doesn't turn to say hello. He just responds. And his response shows no big deal. And yet that's what a Buddha would do. You say, hey, you're the Buddha, the Buddha turns his head.

[53:28]

Not to hit you, not to help you, but in fact, that way of being with you does help you. So we could say our hesitation is like the shutting down of our natural unhesitating response. would I say that our hesitation is a shutting down of our natural unhesitating response? An attempt to shut down. An attempt to shut down. It could be, but I think it's, even before it's an attempt to shut down, it is an ignorance. Our hesitation is something that arises from ignoring our unhesitating responsiveness. when we ignore it, when we don't see it. And then, in a sense, when we don't see it, then we get scared and then we want to close down on this very dynamic unhesitatingness.

[54:41]

Because once we're behind the ball, we feel frightened of it. We feel like it might overwhelm us because we've withdrawn from it. in the sense that we withdrew from it by ignoring it for a while, for a moment. You know, it might be that in the past when we felt that we'd be overwhelmed, that we'd try to shut things down. And those kinds of actions to try to shut things down and try to control things, those actions lead to us being now inclined, to again. So when we get behind and out of touch and therefore get frightened and afflicted, things we do from there, one of the things we might do is try to like control or shut down on the situation because we feel like we're separate from it and it's going to overwhelm us. And those actions then make us, in a sense, in the future,

[55:47]

ignoring again and wanting to shut down again. Yes? In regard to getting in situations where I feel frightened or... Can you hear her? When I feel frightened in certain situations and perceive that the person that I find frightening, that engaging with them makes them more, like, close with it. Yeah, it can happen. Or we can be afraid that if we engage with the person we're afraid of, that the thing we're afraid of will happen. Like we feel afraid of them, like they look like they're going to hit us or hurt us in some way, then we think, but if I stay away from them, maybe it won't happen.

[56:56]

So if I engage with them, it's more likely that the danger will manifest, the harm will manifest. Again, remember the root of the word danger is this dominus, which means danger comes from the sense of a master, of a sovereign, of a power. You know, so we meet someone and we sense their power. If we don't sense their power, we don't feel they're so dangerous. But you meet a power and you see a danger, yes, and then what? How do you stay open? My reaction is to get real quiet, don't engage, or just, you know, so that they'll get less So they'll get less? Less. Don't engage so that the power will be less and the danger will be less. So how do you stay open in a situation like that?

[58:01]

In your particular situation you're saying, how do you, are you talking about how do you stay open in a situation where you feel like if you get quiet the danger will go down? Correct. That's what I was talking about last night. When we feel the power around us. We see the danger, and so we think, I might be safer. If I stand upright and open my body to this power, I may feel more, I feel the danger more, right? If I curl up in a ball, I feel the danger less. It seems like curling up in a ball, putting or whatever, Do ostriches do that? Put their head in the sand? To feel safe? Or to look like a tree? We think that, right? So how do you do that? Well, laughing sounds good. But just feel that, you know, when you feel that, okay, I want to curl up in a ball because then I'll feel less endangered.

[59:09]

Okay? And then just live like that for a while. See if that's like, okay, I do feel less in danger. I feel the danger got smaller. When I curl up in a ball, I feel like the danger got smaller. The power got smaller. If it gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller, the power, the power seems to get smaller too. Hmm? the power, the danger gets smaller and smaller, the danger gets smaller and smaller. And one of the ways that we conceptualize when we die is basically what you do is you withdraw from your fingers and toes, your consciousness moves away from your fingers and toes, it moves away from your hands and feet, it moves away from your arms and your legs, and it moves into the center of your body and it moves into a smaller and smaller and smaller place until you're just this tiny little point, and then gone.

[60:21]

No more danger. But if you extend yourself right onto the tips of your fingers and right up to your skin, then you really feel how vulnerable you are, how you can be hurt. You can be hurt way out to your fingers because you're actually out there in your fingers. You know, if somebody munches on your fingers, you can feel it. So you might try the experiment of just, okay, there's big power out there, big danger. Okay, now I'm going to shrink up into a little ball and see if I feel less danger. Yeah, I do. And how do I feel more? But do I feel alive? No, I don't. Come back out now and be alive? No. We'll just stay here a little longer. And then maybe somebody say, you want to come out and play? And you might say, a little bit. So then you open up a little bit. And you feel, oh, it's dangerous. Yeah. But I like it better than that.

[61:22]

I had enough of that curl up in a ball thing. Actually, I would like sometime before I die to come like, actually take a big open moment and just like open to, okay, come and give me everybody. That's enough of that. So yeah, so there is that thing of if you're quiet, if you don't express yourself, Don't say anything. Just keep quiet and then you feel safer. Yeah. I don't. Well, you don't, but some people do. Let's respect that. But, there's this, I heard this, here's a little poem by somebody. Oh, it's by Thomas Carlyle. It is good to use best china, the most genuine goblets, the oldest lace tablecloth.

[62:34]

There's a risk, of course. Any time you use anything or anyone shares an inmost moment, or a fragile cup of revelation, there's a risk. But not to touch, handle the artifacts of being human is the true quiet crash, the deadly catastrophe where nothing is enjoyed or spoken or spilled or broken. where nothing is ever lived, loved, blocked, or trapped over, where nothing is ever lost or found. So if you curl up in a ball, you're not going to lose anything, maybe. So that's good. It's good not to lose anything. To the power! Make your ball small that you can't lose any.

[63:42]

I've got nothing to lose. but there's also nothing to find. If you've got a lot to lose, you've got a lot to find. So bring out your best stuff. Put it out there. Take the risk and then you'll be able to find what you've been looking for your whole life. Express yourself while you're still in the pink. In the pink is in the danger? Well, pink is actually... In the pink means alive. But also being in the pink means you're in danger. Living beings are in danger of the power of life. There's this big master power that's endangering us. In fact, we're always... Our living people are in danger.

[64:43]

Dead people aren't. And the more living people make themselves dead, the less danger they're in. See, but I feel like that's more dangerous. That's what he says. He says that's the quiet crash. That's the deadly catastrophe. The deadly catastrophe is a catastrophe of missing out on life while you're alive. We'll be dead soon enough, but before that, how about giving life a chance? letting what's happening actually, like, happen. Letting your response to it come forth. You are responding. Open to it. Notice it. But can you respond? You can't respond without acting. No.

[65:44]

You couldn't. Your response is your action. Your action. So it doesn't have to be overt action. It doesn't have to be overt. You mean it doesn't have to be something that other people can see? Yeah. Right. It doesn't have to be. However, If it is overt, in other words, if you do notice it, you're more tuned in to your life. Like if you meet somebody and you notice and you salivate, if you notice it, you're more on your response. You're noticing that you don't hesitate. You're noticing that you are responding. When somebody looks at you, you respond. When somebody meets you, you blink. You know, you are responding. We're constantly responding. We never don't respond to each other. There's never a miss.

[66:44]

There's only a not noticing the response, which happens a lot because people feel scared to be in the place where they're actually open to all that they feel in response to others. What is all that others feel in response to us? To open to that is what I'm encouraging us to do. It's actually happening already. All the ignorant people are going around trying to be in a little safe place because they think they're separate from the world. All those people are still responding all the time, but they don't notice it. If you open, you start to notice the responding more, but you were responding more. You just didn't notice it. You are constantly acting, you are constantly responding, but none of my actions and none of your actions are something done by us alone.

[67:51]

They happen in relationship. And we kind of have a habit of ignoring this responsiveness. I'm concerned that what you're saying, when you talk about imitation, that you are saying that there should always be a physical reaction. There's a response even if I don't move. If I'm listening to you and I'm open to you, I'm still responding. Yes? Yes. Yeah. Actually, you're moving too, but you may not notice it. I mean, you know... your eyes blink, your eyes water, like I say, you salivate. You may not feel like you're moving your voluntary muscles, but like, you know, some women, if they're like nursing, and they see a baby, their milk comes out of their breasts. They don't move any muscles, but their body responds to the baby, even if it's not their baby, right?

[68:54]

we see somebody and even our muscles start to relax and then they tighten into a smile. So first of all, they're in a certain position, you see somebody, the muscles relax and then they tighten into a smile. We don't even notice it or into a frown. We are always responding. We just usually miss out on quite a bit of it. So that's part of the process is basically to slow down so you can feel certain things which you don't like to feel, and then you get to feel other things which you maybe don't care about feeling, and then you also open to things which you really do want to feel. We do want to feel the act of extremely rich interdependence, which is our life.

[70:06]

We do want to feel it. It's just that we're also afraid of what will happen to us if we actually open to our life. So how can we start opening to our life? Yes. Yes. Are you going to go make lunch now? Yes. Thank you. Oh, by the way, if you need, during any of our discussions, if you need to leave to go to the bathroom, I don't know what, please feel free to leave. Don't feel like you have to stay in the room. If you get uncomfortable and need to do something, Yes. You mentioned earlier that if we take a slightly different perspective, there is no pain.

[71:11]

Could you talk a little bit more about that? When I said no pain, I don't, well, yeah, there's two ways that strike me about that. One is the perspective of the pain that comes with fear, comfort of fear. So if I could change from the perspective of us being separate to the understanding that we're not, I would not be afraid. there would be no fear in me, and no pain from fear. It's one change of perspective, or to put it another way, that's one way of seeing things, not so much seeing things differently, but seeing a different thing. So in one case I see

[72:13]

I see a separation between you and me. And the other thing I don't see, I see an absence of a separation between us. I actually look and don't find it. And I actually see that there is no separation. I actually see that. And when I see that, I'm seeing a different thing. So you can say change in perspective, but also just see a different world. See a world where there isn't separate things. And that change in what you see frees you from suffering in the form of anxiety and so on. But there's some kinds of pain which actually are very helpful, like the pain that you get when you sprain your ankle or something. So your body's saying, don't walk anymore. Or the pain of... of something being too hot.

[73:18]

So certain pains are pains which you actually don't want to stop having. They're actually quite helpful. And I'm talking about the pain of fear and anxiety. In the pain of hating people, in the pain of wanting to hurt people, in the pain of having hurt someone, those pains we can become free of by a change of perspective. dash seeing a different thing. It's not just changing perspective. You actually see something different. You see, oh, this is not my enemy, this is my friend.

[74:24]

Or this person is not separate from me, this person is me. Is me and isn't me. There's both. There's isn't me and is me. There's the other that makes me, and there's me. But I usually think I'm already here, and then I'll relate to the other. But the chain where you see, oh, the other is me. The other is me. Yes? I'm thinking that how to hesitate involves how to evaluate. So when we hesitate to respond to the comment, hey, you, it might be that we're evaluating what could happen here.

[75:31]

Yes. We're considering what are the possible results of a response that I might make. Yes. Can I say something? Can I say something? Right there in the deliberation was the response, which you don't see as a response. So you feel like you're hesitating. But actually you didn't hesitate to deliberate. So sometimes we teach in Zen, we try to teach people various teachers try to teach people to not hesitate, to not deliberate. But today I'm emphasizing that even when you're deliberating, when something happens and you deliberate or evaluate, you actually did restart. You didn't hesitate. You immediately turned on your deliberation equipment. Or not sometimes you turned on, but it got turned on. So in that case, Everybody else say, oh, Gary, I mean, oh, Ken.

[76:38]

Ken hesitated. Ken hesitated. Ken hesitated. He's always over there deliberating. That's what many people may see, you know. He was asked to, like, stand up and dance, but he sat there and deliberated about whether he should. But someone else said, no, he actually didn't hesitate. He actually did the deliberation dance. He did the law professor dance. So you really do respond, but when you go into deliberation, sometimes you feel like you're not really doing what people are asking. You're going to think about whether you're going to do it or not. You maybe feel hesitation, so there really isn't hesitation. And yet, when we're caught by it, this is significant, because being caught by hesitation is... painful. Because then you're not pivot.

[77:41]

You're in the crisis. By the way, this is a card which has those characters in it. You're in the crisis, but you're not noticing the turning in the crisis. You're in the turning point. Somebody says, hey, Gary. And you think, I see now I'm doing it. You say, Well, yes, I mean, nothing by name. You seem to be hesitating, but actually it's like you're not appreciating, you're missing out on how you actually are turning at the pivot. You actually are. Because you're a living being in the pivot, you're turning at the pivot. And the way you turn at the pivot can be deliberation, to be called deliberation. That could be your spin at the moment. The whole universe is coming together and says, hey you. Then the whole universe comes together and makes you a deliberator. Then it makes you a deliberator.

[78:43]

Then it makes you a person who said, I don't want to respond, or yes. actuality is what we're trying to realize. We're not trying to make some new thing happen. We're trying to get to the way we really are. And the way is called the Buddha way. And the Buddha way is basically leaping. So somebody says, hey you, and you leap into deliberation. But Do you know that you do? And if you don't, then you're missing out on the fun and you feel bad. So then somebody says, hey you, you start deliberating, that that's your spinning. So then you feel kind of like, and everybody says, oh look, he's so unhappy, he's not really with the program, he's like over there thinking about whether he's going to play with us. But really, the Buddha wouldn't see it that way. The Buddha would say, he's perfectly spinning and he doesn't get it. And other people And they're spinning too. Everybody's spinning.

[79:44]

You, each of you, each of us, is the center of the universe. Each of you is what the universe makes you right now. The whole universe is based on you. But not just you, also on me. But it's based on you. And the whole universe makes you. And that's the power. That's the master. That's the power that's coming to you. The whole universe is coming to you, but also you are the basis of the whole universe. It's based on you, and you're based on it. This is the power which we're like, whew, give me a break. But still, the universe makes you be somebody who says, give me a break. Give me an out. Let me pause for a second. Are you enjoying the pause? Yes. Great. Are you afraid to pause? Yes.

[80:48]

Well, great. The universe makes you a frightened person too. But do you appreciate that here in your fear, the whole universe is based on you and fear? And if you can say yes, you are fearless. Because you have everybody in the universe to support you to be frightened. Well, he hardly answered my last point. Did I hardly answer the last point? But here's, I think, the rub for me is that the deliberation, all right, so that's the response, that's good, but the deliberation itself is sometimes what creates fear. Deliberation is maybe a condition for the fear, but I would say missing out on how the deliberation is something that arises, or I should say, how you, the deliberator, missing out on how you, the deliberator, is the universe supporting you to be that, missing out on that, then the whole universe makes you into a frightened person.

[82:07]

The universe makes people who miss out on who they are into frightened people. That's the way the universe works. The universe says, if you don't notice how I'm sitting, then what we make you into is a frightened person. That's what we do. And we do that so you will start waking up to what's going on. So fear is actually a signal to wake up. So we have this workshop on fear, meditating on fear. It's a meditation on waking up. Because fear is a sign that we're dreaming. Somewhat dreaming. And in particular, we have a particular dream we're dreaming when we're afraid.

[83:10]

And the dream is there's the universe plus something. And, and me. That's the dream which fear is trying to wake you up from. The universe is actually promoting us to wake up to our actual relationship with it. and what it does is it gives us fear and anxiety to focus, to not be one person by himself, to get out of that. And actually, we already are out of it. We're trying to find this crisis point where we shift, where we're turning, where we're open to. There's a danger which will manifest. There's harm which will come to us unless we wake up. And there's an opportunity to wake up. And we have to open to loss in order to find our true self.

[84:18]

And so how can we find this unhesitating place where we live? Or rather, this unhesitating place which is life. Life is really an unhesitating place. But living beings have trouble finding their balance there so that they can... because of past moments of ignorance tend to make us prone to, like, close down, even though we're totally supported to close down by our past karma. We're made to close down. So it's actually an interdependent thing that we close down. So sometimes we're trying to find ways to wake up to how we're never really out of connection with everything, even though the way things are connecting with us now is to make us feel out of connection. We're trying to leap out of its leap, but not by ignoring it, but by using what's given.

[85:26]

Use the fear, use the hesitation, use the deliberation, use the anxiety as the opportunity to leap, to turn. So we're spending all the time trying to find out? Yeah, we're spending our, well, hopefully we're spending our time trying to find out where we are, but not so much trying to find out where we are, because that pushes us a little ways away from that. You can't really find it, but you can be there, and you can enjoy it fully. In fact, that is what life is, is life, it is being where you are and enjoying it fully. That's your life. That's what life is. So let's try to open to that and see the relationship between closing to it and fear, and opening to it and fearlessness, which again means opening to fear.

[86:27]

If fear is happening, opening to fear is towards fearlessness. Buddha is open to our fear. And Buddha is not separate from... Buddha doesn't need to be separate from... And when frightened people feel the willingness to open to their frightenedness, then they realize that Buddha is not someplace else. But when there's no sense of openness to fear, then it just seems like, well, then Buddha must be someplace else. Now, where's the turn? Where's the pivot? Yeah. Well, being open to that, there, then Buddha's here. Yes? I'm thinking I want to define hesitation as resistance to receive. Define hesitation as resistance to receive.

[87:28]

That's good. It's or a manifestation of resistance to receiving. You resist receiving and then you hesitate. And again, we can't really resist receiving, because even our resistance we receive. We really can't resist receiving, but we can think we do, and thinking we do, we feel hesitant and we feel afflicted. Because we, you know, if we resist our life, we miss it. Not completely. And so, not completely, so our consolation prize for missing our life is fear.

[88:35]

We get something. We don't have nothing. fear and anxiety, and then of course the government uses our fear and anxiety to get us to go bomb people. Because, you know, like one of the leaders of the Nazi party says, all you got to do is just get people to be afraid. So we are already afraid. Got to tap into that fear. and they were that government was very good at tapping into fear and this government is too get people frightened like you know i heard i heard the president talking on the on the years ago and he's saying there are people out there who are evil and want to hurt you it's like you know like you know halloween thing But it sounds like a little boy trying to scare all the little boys, you know.

[89:39]

It's a situation and you people are really in danger and you better tense up and do what we say. You said that just the other day, still talking like that, trying to frighten people about the evil people out there that do, there are evil people out there that do want to hurt you. I would say, you know, okay, I understand. But how about those people, those evil people out there that want to hurt you, how about opening up to them? How about realizing that you're not separate from them? What about that? That's what I'm here to say. I'm not arguing that there's not evil people out there. I'm just saying that there's evil people, but they're not really out there. That's open to them. Then we'll be fearless. Do you want to keep them out there and keep being afraid forever, those evil people?

[90:40]

This is fear. As long as they're out there, they're not in here. We are safe. If they're out there and it's not in here, then we are safe. No, that's not true. No? No. I mean, that's their thinking. No. And they might come in here. So we're not safe. They're out there and they want to come in here and hurt you. But we can protect you from that. So you give us your money and then we won't let them in your house. Open to the dangerous. Open to it. Don't go into it. Don't run after it. Just open to it. Open to the danger of all the losses and harm that can happen. And then you can find something that you need. So how do we make friends with the president then to begin with?

[91:42]

How do we make friends? How do we open up to the president? Yeah. Open up to the president. How can I open to a frightened little boy? He's a frightened little boy. How can I open to a frightened little boy? I have to think of the president. If my grandson was in that office, he'd act just like that guy. Huh? Maybe. He's a great kid. But anyway... He's a very frightened little guy who is not necessarily wanting to be in touch with his spear. Have you heard the story about where he wanted to go out in the dark and dig in the dirt? Did I tell you that story? No. Want to hear it?

[92:43]

So he says, it's like about this time of year, And, you know, so it's like, it's like about, I don't know, I think it's after dinner. And so it's, you know, like here after dinner, it's dark now. Go down in the garden and dig in the dirt. Well, down in the field. Green College has this farm, right? Go down in the field in the dark. Like I said, this is like out in the country. There's no lights out there. It's dark. Let's go down and dig in the field in the dark. And I thought, sounds kind of scary. I didn't say it to him. I said, but I thought, this guy, this guy wants to go down there. I'll go with him. Brave little guy. I didn't say, when you get down there, you know it. you're going to get scared. It's going to be dark and cold. And the mountains around and all the animals, it's going to be scary.

[93:45]

I didn't say that. I thought, I didn't think, he's probably going to get scared. But how brave, I'll go with him. So we got our, whenever we go on these things, he likes to pack a lot of stuff. laughter So he packed up lots of gardening tools. He has his little plastic gardening tools, little shovels and trolls and rakes. So he took all his plastic, we strapped on his plastic gardening tools, and we also took a little snack with us, and we also took a little dog with us, a Russell Terrier. So we go off into the dark, and we start to approach the fields, and by the fields there's a pond, and in the pond There are frogs. So as we approached the pond, he puts his hands up to his ears. He says, what's that noise? It's frogs. And he said, frogs like ribbit, ribbit?

[94:45]

He said, right. He says, OK. So we start walking closer to the pond, and the frogs get louder. And he stops and he says, let's go back. I think our dog's getting scared. And I don't tell him, don't be afraid. We went on this trip. I go on trips with him to help him get... And we go, you know, and he wants to go on these adventures, and we go out into the woods, you know, and go into the woods, just the little ways. Sometimes you just get to the edge of the woods, and he says... you know, I want to go back." In the house he wants to go on these adventures and get all the equipment and stuff. When we actually come to the woods, he's scared, you know, he can feel, he can feel the power of the woods, you know, it's there, it's like, it's the universe in, you know, the woods, it's the mountains, it's the trees, it's the rivers, he can feel it.

[95:53]

But he's afraid of it because he thinks it's separate from him. And so when he gets to the edge and he wants to go back, I say, okay. I don't push him into the fear. I walk with him and he meets the fear and then he wants to go back. So we go back. But then we go back again. He wants to go again. He wants to go again. He wants to go out there. He wants to go out there and meet himself. He knows he wants to embrace this world. But it's scary because it's separate, he thinks. So every time you go a little deeper into the forest, every time you stay a little longer, you know, I just go with him. If you push yourself too hard, then you say, I'm never going to go back in the woods again. Same in Zen practice. Don't push yourself too hard.

[96:55]

Don't sit too long. Don't be too tough on yourself. Just come to the fear. Come right up to meet it. Don't lean into it. Don't lean away from it. Don't try to get to the right side or the left side of it. Just meet it and try to relax with it. And then when the time's right, go deeper. The fear is not out there. The danger is right here. evil ones aren't someplace, aren't separate from us. We can open to them right now. And again, to learn how to open to the evil, dangerous things that want to hurt us. We are vulnerable to being hurt. That's our nature. We are fragile cups. We are our best linen tablecloth, you know.

[97:59]

Precious and very vulnerable. We're fragile. We need to like bring this fragile, precious thing into the world. And we need to open to and care for frightened women who are in positions of power. Yes. I have a question about how I respond sometimes to people that get scared when they hear about things. Like, after I had that car accident, I thought, well, I could have died just driving home from the airport, so I might as well do something interesting. And I started riding horses and jumping. And so when I told my mother about it, she's, you know... You can get hurt. I could have gotten hurt driving.

[99:03]

I mean, you can get hurt any time. Or sometimes people say, well, yeah, you know, I'm in my 40s too, and I just feel like I don't want to take the risk to ride horses. But I feel like for me it makes me feel more alive to do that. I mean, I'm not just, like, doing it in a stupid way. But I get sometimes really impressed. I just feel like, like, let's have fun. You know, and I get aggravated with people. You get impatient. I get impatient, yeah, with people, and I don't like that. Well, again, I think that it sounds to me like it's somewhat painful that these people are not playing. Yeah, right, right. And that's painful. Yeah. That's painful. That's painful and that's painful. Usually, not always, but it's often painful when people won't play with you. So then you practice patience with the discomfort of looking like, it looks like, it looks like, the perspective is, this is painful.

[100:06]

That's the way it looks. It looks like they're not playing with you. You don't see that this is their way of playing with you. But then I think this is a dumb game. And you thinking it's a dumb game is your way of playing. It's called, this is a dumb game game. We are actually playing together. We are actually playing together. So... Rona? Rowan. Rowan. Rowan riding, jumping horses, and Mommy saying, That's her way of playing with you. That's the mommy way of playing with you. But mommy has other boys that play with her. You know, she's not just that. But when it comes to being mommy with her little girl, she does this mommy thing, which is, get off the horse, my precious little girl.

[101:12]

I don't want any dents on you. That's the mommy game. But you don't see it as playing. You see it as like, oh, mommy's daughter from being alive. I'm alive here and you're saying, get off the horse. Right? That's her way of playing with you. Get off the horse. Stop being alive. Enough already. Get off the horse. Come and sit and have tea with me. Let me protect you. Game. If you don't see it as a game, if you don't see it, then that's your perspective. Painful. And also she's powerful. She's your mother. So there's a power there. And you don't want the power of the mother to stop you from being alive. Because she's your mother. You don't want to hurt your mother. You say, oh God, if I fall off and hurt myself, then that'll hurt her, so I probably shouldn't ride the horse, and if I think about that, then I'm not going to ride the horse, so then I'm going to curl up in a ball so that I don't do anything that'll make me... No, like I never had that thought.

[102:15]

No, you never had that thought. You don't want to have that thought. Right, right. You don't want to have that thought. You don't want to have that thought. But somebody who is powerful, like your mother, threatens you. You say, I'm not going to let you have me. I'm not going to let you make me have that thought. But because she's pretty powerful, there's a threat that she'll overwhelm you and make you. Because a coward of what? A coward not so much afraid of hurting yourself, but afraid of hurting her when you get hurt. There's some people who aren't that powerful, you don't see as that powerful, so if they tell you not to ride the horse, you're not that worried that they're going to influence you to not do what you want to do. I really don't think it's about influence, because it affected me the same way when someone else I just knew casually said it. Well, then, it is about influence, but you just are influenced by people you know casually then, too.

[103:15]

If it bothers you, if people don't like what you're doing, and you think you're doing... and you're not afraid of them having an influence on you, then it's not a problem to hear them. But isn't it the same thing as what you're saying? You know, it's like you're trying to encourage us not to crawl up in a little ball. Yes. So does it bother you when you see people crawled up in a little ball? Does it bother me? Yeah. It doesn't bother me. Well, it's my job security. So then I think, oh goody, another person to uncoil. Another clam to open. Ha-sun. And they came specifically to show me themselves so that I could pry them open. Would you like me to open you?

[104:17]

No, get away from me. Are you sure? Well, maybe you could pat me or something. But when we see that the people aren't playing, that from that perspective... we suffer. When the person is suffering from being curled up, it does hurt us to see their suffering. But there's also a joy that you can help them become free. So there's a compassion, one definition of compassion is basically a joy that has a dent in it. And the dent is other people's pain. So you feel the pain, but feeling the pain of other people's pain leads to this great joy of the joy of uncoil, open up to the pivot in the crisis.

[105:29]

So one sense is, oh, goody, I can help this person someday. And right now I feel their pain. So in one sense, yes, I feel their pain. Not so much at seeing them curled up, but that they're in pain from being curled up. If they really were happy being curled up, I would say, wow, this is fabulous. But when they're in pain, I feel the pain. But at the same time, I think, oh, how fun. There's something to work on here. There's a game, a game of helping them wake up that they're playing a game. When you bring out your good china and you place a tablecloth and the world throws a red eye or breaks your china, what is the people's response, the people's response to the world reacting that way to you bringing out the bad? Well, you're open to the loss. Open to the loss of your precious china and your kibble cloth.

[106:34]

You open to that loss and then you spin around and find something. Lost and found. But if you lose and you close to it, well, then you get in big trouble. Well, if you lose and close to it, or if you close to the danger of losing. So, yeah, so if you close to that, for example, if you close to the danger or the threat of getting older, then you tend to get intoxicated by your present age or by youth. So actually young people oftentimes are closed to the threat of getting old, and they're young and they become intoxicated by their youth.

[107:38]

And then they intoxicate some things. But even if you're young and are old, if you're open to the danger of getting old, that sobers you. and you start to do wholesome things. Or you now start to do wholesome things because you're open to the loss of your youth, you're open to the loss of your middle age, you're open to the loss of your old age, you're open to loss. And opening to loss, you're also open to danger. Danger of what? Well, getting old, danger of losing your abilities, danger of starving, danger of all those dangers, but also you're open to the danger of ignoring the danger, and the danger of, you know, of doing unwholesome things because you... So there's dangers, plus there's the danger of things, there's various dangers, plus there's the danger of what you do when you ignore the dangers.

[108:50]

So we're not only in danger of losing things, but we're in danger of closing to losing things, pushing losing things away. We're in danger of what we do when we push away those dangers. Meaning we start going around scaring other people, trying to hurt other people, because you're in a state of intoxication. The point is, no matter what happens to me, I still have myself. Correct? Is it that you still have yourself? Yes, she's talking about, I know it's a metaphor, but yeah, they break your china, they mess up your tablecloth, but you still have your table, you still have the core. So that's why you should be fearless, because no matter what happens to you... No. No. No. You still have your core, that's the real thing that they put out there. That's... No, but I'm saying I'm not... You're still going to have your core.

[109:55]

No, you're not going to have your core. You're going to lose your core, too. That's the real thing that's in danger. That's the main thing that's in danger, is your core. You don't have a core. I don't have a core. No, you don't have a core. And... And... And the appearance of the core, the dream of the core, you're going to lose. You're going to find that there's no core. So all the things that you think you're going to lose, including your core, if you open to that, you'll find that you have no core. You'll find that you have... If you open... to all the laws and all the danger of loss, you will find, what you'll find is you have nothing to lose and nothing to gain. That's what you'll find. So I appreciate you really take everything away and you still have yourself.

[111:03]

Now you're getting, that's what, that's what, I'm not telling you you should do this. I'm not telling you you should get rid of your tablecloths and your fine china. But in the Buddhist tradition, that's what's recommended for monks, is to get rid of your tablecloths and your fine china. And then with just yourself, now that's clear what you're really holding on to is your own body, now get over that. That's the real hard one. Yeah. But if you're holding on to that, you're still basically in this... keep their china, you know, in the cabinet and won't even have anybody over for tea because they're afraid somebody will come and break their tea cups. So, like, there's a story of a Zen teacher who somebody, you know, brought him out this family heirloom, this very special tea. And he took it and he smashed it.

[112:04]

And then he said, glue this back together and give this to your next generation. This breaking the teacup is just to help the people wake up. So put out something really precious and let the Zen teacher break it. Just so you can feel, are you ready to break it? We are fragile. We are fragile. And it isn't that we're fragile and then we get to hold on to ourselves, too. No, we're actually fragile. We actually do break. We actually do break. How does Carlisle's poem go? Life is broken, you know. And if you hold off, you let your teacups be broken, but you don't let yourself be broken. We have to let ourselves be broken, and we will be broken, and we are broken.

[113:14]

We're constantly broken. We are fragile. We are impermanent. We aren't. We think we are, but we're not. We have to let ourselves be broken. We are being broken. We will be broken. We have to get with the program. We can't, and we can't like, yeah, all that stuff's broken, but still something's not broken. There's nothing that's not broken. The only thing that's not broken is when we say that everything's broken. Impermanence is not broken. Fragility is not broken. But everything else is. And our society is afraid of this. A society which is permeated by fear of the basic character of things is that they're impermanent, and we do a lot to try to ward off the fear of impermanence.

[114:15]

And I think it's fine to make cars as safe as possible, And it's fine to buy a car that has, you know, a reputation for, there's a good maintenance reputation. So I bought a Honda and so far I haven't had any problems, that's nice. But as a meditation on fearlessness, it's good for me every time I get in the car to remember this dangerous thing I'm doing. And it's not like I'm going to survive, even if the car doesn't. But there are these airbags. So if the car gets smashed, I'll be okay. Yeah, right. That's fine. Why not have airbags? So that I can live another day to realize that I'm fragile. The more chances I have to realize that I'm fragile, the better. I think that's good. So I try to like drive in a safe car. What does that mean?

[115:18]

I try to drive in a safe car where people have made it, you know, with an attempt to make it safe, even though it's not. Yes, is it Neil? Yes. Yes, Neil. My question is about the sanction of somebody else. Yes. challenging others. Yes. Right. Sometimes wonder whether that's service or disservice. Do you wonder about that? Some of the people aren't willing to open their eyes. Yeah. Yeah, well, that story, that guy got by with it. He broke the family heirloom. Actually, also, he broke the family heirloom of a samurai, you know, of a warlord. And decapitated for, you know, winking the wrong way.

[116:25]

So anyway, this is like the lord of Sendai that, you know, a big samurai, he went to his family thing, so the Zen master endangered his life to help this warrior. So maybe if you're visiting warriors, highly armed warriors, in that case it's okay to break their family's jewels. Because you know that although you're endangering the teacup, you're also endangering yourself. If you're willing to endanger yourself. So it shouldn't be just... you're going to endanger them. So you feel endangered, and you feel like they're not kind of like feeling as endangered as you are feeling, so you want to bring them up to speed. And then if you bring them up to speed, then they say, oh, okay, well, now we're going to cut your head off. That's what I came for. To get to that point with you.

[117:25]

Well, we're both really scared. rather than, okay, I'm going to break the teacup. They're not going to hurt me for breaking the teacup. They might really get upset. But I'm willing to do that for the sake of helping them realize that we're playing. This isn't like I'm coming to give a talk to help you keep your mansion intact. I'm not coming in here to help you keep all your precious heirlooms unbroken. I'm coming here to help you open to fearlessness. You're going to break your family heirloom. How did it go? How do you feel? Did it help? Got the broken tea bowl. So they put it back together, and then they packed the family heirloom of this broken tea bowl. A beautiful tea bowl to remind people that tea bowls are impermanent.

[118:29]

Not a beautiful tea bowl to remind people that things are permanent. And that's one of the characteristics of Japanese ceramics and Japanese tea ceremony is that look like they're old or broken or about to break. Wabi-sabi, they call it. Not to make things look, you know, like indestructible, but make things that look like that can break. They've been around such a long time, they're just going to disintegrate. To make things that make people realize how fragile life is, an opening to fragility is opening to fearlessness. Not make yourself fragile. You already are. Not make myself fragile. Just open to it. Open to my fragility.

[119:31]

But that's also opening to the power of the universe. Fragility is closing to the power. Closing to my life is closing to my life. Okay? Okay? So now you can open to lunch if you want. A fragile lunch for a fragile person. Soon the lunch will be, you know, the Chinese characters for digestion are destroy or crunch and transform. So we're actually going to go out there and destroy the food. Transform it into enlightenment. That's digestion. So be gentle with that food that you're going to destroy. Help it open to its fragility and you join it, okay?

[120:37]

And I hope that doesn't

[120:39]

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