Sometimes people who I've been practicing with for a long time or a short time ask me if I will be their teacher or they ask me, you know, how can I develop a relationship with a teacher. And A long time ago, when people would ask me, I would sometimes say, yes, I'll be your teacher. But I didn't find out what they meant by that, and sometimes later I realized they felt frustrated because they had some idea of what that meant, and they didn't tell me. And I didn't fulfill their idea of a teacher. So now if someone asks me, I say, well, what do you mean by it? mean by student-teacher relationship?

[01:02]

And sometimes they say, I don't know. So they're asking for something sometimes before they even know what they're asking for. So then we talk, and I suggest, actually, that they tell me what form they would like the student-teacher relationship to be in. And usually it's already been in some form prior to that request. It had some form, but maybe that form, there was no commitment to that form. It was just the form of how we met, just the form of how we were relating. But we hadn't agreed that we would continue that form. Or maybe there were several forms, and we hadn't committed to those several forms either. And some people come and meet and practice with me or practice with the Zen Center Sangha.

[02:30]

They come and they sit or they study with the community. And then they don't come for some time. This doesn't seem like a problem to anybody. Although people come to know a Bodh, but they don't necessarily commit to come to know a Bodh. They come to a lecture, but they don't necessarily commit to it. So I was talking to somebody just recently and I said, well, you know, one formal, one form that sometimes is used in priest training, in Zen, and probably other kinds of Buddhist lineage. New Year's, there's a New Year's greeting between teacher and disciple. If the teacher is a priest, between teacher-priest and disciple-priest.

[03:35]

It's a New Year's greeting, bowing to each other. And the disciple gives the teacher a written piece of calligraphy usually, not usually types from the computer, but a handwritten, a hand calligraphed request that the teacher, well, I think an expression, may you live another year, may you have good health, and thank you for teaching last year and would you please to live another year and teach another year as a formal request by a formal ceremony of writing this out and giving it to the teacher." The person I told this to today was a priest.

[04:41]

But then I thought, Well, maybe some people who aren't priests would like to also, at New Year's, greet their teacher and request their teacher to be their teacher for another year. So it led me to ask you, what's a good word for people who are not priests? I don't particularly like lay person, myself, priest or not priest. I don't like speaking of people in terms of what they're not sometimes. So I thought, well, how about calling the people who aren't priests, just calling them Bodhisattvas. So bodhisattvas might at New Year's want to have a greeting with their teacher, a formal greeting, hello, and here's my request.

[05:53]

So I'm asking you a couple of things. One is, priests can be bodhisattvas too, but what's a good word for people who are practicing the bodhisattva path who are not priests? Is there any other word besides bodhisattva that is encouraging? And also, what do you think of doing this forum at the beginning of the year, you know, each year? So I ask your feedback on that. I just want to say that I'm always deeply moved when the priest disciples come and ...effort to write this out and give it to me. I'm just very moving to see people actually write that out and actually write those words. It's very moving. And it's... I've been... now for... I don't know how many years.

[07:03]

I don't think 26. Like Tayo was in the first group of priests. Yeah, so maybe we've been doing it for almost 20 years. The priests, who I'm closely, we get together at New Year's and do that, practice that formal teacher-disciple exercise. So I just wondered how people who aren't priests feel about ceremony Are you happy that the priests do it? And would you like to do something like that yourself? And what would you like to call the non-priests? Yes? Yes, John? John? That sounds like a very attractive idea. A word that just leaped into my mind from somewhere, even though I don't use this word, friends of mine use the word yogi, which I guess means like student or something.

[08:10]

Did you say yogi? Yogi. Mm-hmm. bodhisattva yogis, yogi bodhisattva. Is it done by one person or is it done in a group? Well, it can be done either way. It could be one person. So if I'm working with, if I have ordained, I've ordained quite a few priests, so it's much more convenient to schedule one meeting, also then they get to be together, than to schedule 30. Although I sometimes at New Year's have doksan, with each person and then on another day around that time have a group meeting. So it could be each individual one or it could be if there were a group who had that shared teacher they could do it together.

[09:14]

It could be either way. I just was thinking, they call us something home practitioners or something. I can't remember that name exactly. They call people, they say home leaver and home householder or maybe householders and house releasers. What is such a householder? the Japanese word for home leaver or home giver-upper is shukke. And the home, the home, the householder is called zaike. Zaike and shukke. Zaike, yeah, Japanese is nice because you don't know what it means. Yeah, it could be zaike bodhisattva,

[10:17]

New Year's greeting. Beautiful. Yes. I like the self-realized, the invitation of self-realized people. Self-realizing or self-realized, yeah. Yeah. Yes, Laurie. Are we meeting like right after the New Year? Pardon? Isn't there a meeting There's a meeting scheduled right after New Year's, yeah. So it could be done at that meeting, except that not everybody that would usually come to know about it would want to do that, but it could be done around that time. Some people come to know about it, but they don't necessarily want to formally ask me to be their teacher next year. but some people coming to a board would want to. So it might be that maybe at the end of the day some people could leave or they could stay and do that ceremony.

[11:29]

That might be a nice way to do it at the end of that first sitting of the year. And they could find out beforehand what it is that's usually said and write it out beforehand and bring it. What do you do with these pieces of paper? Pardon? What do you do with these pieces of paper? I actually usually keep them for a year. And at the end of the year, I burn them. Yes? Can you provide some examples of the kinds of things that people that would be appropriate to ask of you? Would you say it again? Examples of the kinds of things that your priests, disciples have asked of you? I'm trying to get the whole idea.

[12:32]

Do you mean in this year, in the New Year's greeting, or do you mean in general? No, in the New Year's greeting. There's a standard thing, classical thing. Oh, it's not as specific as I want. I would like to learn more about, I would like you to teach me more about blah, blah, blah. No, but that could be added. But there's a standard form which most people just copy exactly, and some people alter something, shorten, but it could be lengthened. I think it would be okay to lengthen it. You know, like, would you teach Dharma from me and all beings next year? And also, would you teach me about the Lotus Sutra? Or could you give teachings about the Samdhinirma? Could you give teachings about this koan collection? Or could you teach about Abhidharma? Or could you help me become fearless? That can be added. Yeah, so it doesn't... There is a standard form, and when people just copy the standard form, that is quite moving to me, to them.

[13:41]

But it can be altered, too. It doesn't have to be... It's a nice standard ritual. Yes? I would like... Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Kind of like Reb. Where did your name, Reb, come from? It comes from rebel. That's because I was born in Mississippi. You mean it's political? Huh? Rebel? Or was it like a Mustang?

[14:47]

It's political in the sense that the southerners had a war with the northerners. Yeah. back in the 19th century. There was a war, and the people from the South, the people from Mississippi, and my parents were from the North. They were Yankees. So when they had this boy born in Mississippi, they said, well, he's kind of our little rebel. Little did they know. So then at birth, although it's not written on my birth certificate, at my birth, Reb Anderson, and he always called me Reb. He never called me Harold. His name was Harold. You were Junior. I was Junior, yeah. But he never called me Harold. And my mother only called me Harold when she was angry at me. Is Reb on your birth certificate? No. Oh. No. It's in the minds of yogis. And fanatics. Yeah, it's in the mind of fanatics also.

[15:51]

And it's in the mind of critics of fanatics. Regarding the name, I remember, I mean, I forgot the name of a man that was used as an example for a householder in the Buddhist texts. Vimalakirti? Yeah. That could be used. Vimalakirtis? Vimalakirti, It's pure. I don't know what kirti means exactly, but it could be like we could say the pure bodhisattvas. Yes? In the Lotus Sutra, I don't know what this means, so it may be wrong, but it refers to upasaka. Upasaka, yeah. Upasaka and upasika. Yeah. So upasaka is a lay man and upasika is a lay woman. Hmm?

[16:53]

Upasika, especially. Upasika. Yes. Yes, Karen. I love the idea of a ceremony. I'm wondering if they're geographically challenged, if there could be a way to participate. Say it again. I like the idea of a ceremony, but geographically sometimes it's a challenge. Could there be a way to participate without being physically present at that time? Oh, yeah. You could mail your request, your calligraphy. You could mail it. That would be fine. Or you could do it later if it didn't work out for you to be there. If a lot of people, and if several people said they'd like to do it but can't be there at that time, it could be postponed until, you know, a week later or something.

[17:57]

What did you say? Yeah, the next year. Could you duplicate last year's commitment? Is there a place where the classic version can be found so that we don't swap Connie or Carolyn looking for it? Is Connie here? Yeah, there she is. So, yeah, I think Connie could suggest how to make that available to people. You want to say how you want people to do it? The form that they're supposed to use? Yeah, you have the form, don't you? Yes, I do. on the Know About website? Yeah. You could put it on the Know About website, yeah. Okay. Or people could just contact you and you send it to them. Yeah, or you can just email me at redassistant at sfvc.org. Okay. Is there going to be some sort of decision on like a date and time here happening?

[18:59]

If there is, we'll send it out. Yeah, like... Yeah, maybe that could be also put on the No Abode website or just on... No Abode website. Your website. Or rebanderson.org. It could be put on it that we're going to offer this ceremony this year. on January 3rd at No Abode. And if you want to participate and know what the traditional statement is, you can contact Reb Assistant and it will be sent to you. Does that seem reasonable? One other thing is, what was the word, what was the seki, that Japanese word? Upaseki. Oh, the Japanese one. Zaikei. And that means what? That means stone.

[20:01]

Yeah. It just has a really beautiful sound with the word bodhisattva. It's just a beautiful sound. Zaikei bodhisattva. Japanese and Sanskrit. Together. Also... Or you could say zaikei bosatsu. That would be all Japanese. Zaikei bosatsu. How do you say householder in... How do you say householder in Sanskrit? In Sanskrit? The male is upasaka and the female is upasika. Yes. Yes, sir? What? A voice hearer. Oh, that's to a monk who actually, usually, you get the name, Shravaka, the voice hearer, usually get that upon, you know, of awakening.

[21:13]

So it's somebody who awakens hearing the Buddhist teaching. That's a male or female. not necessarily a monk, you don't have to be a monk. It's a male or female, actually, enlightened being who has become enlightened by hearing the Dharma. So that, it could be monk or, or, so, yeah, so, Zaikei Bosatsu, that sounds good, or Zaikei Bodhisattva. So this would be a ceremony, this would be a a New Year's greeting of student and teacher for bodhisattvas. Yes? If your primary teacher has sent the person to you for training, will you also accept a greeting, a New Year's greeting? Would you say it again?

[22:14]

If your primary teacher is what? Has sent somebody to you for training, will you also accept a greeting from that person? If somebody's primary teacher has sent someone to me? Yeah. Yeah. You can do this with more than one person. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yes. Yes. The question is sort of on the heels of that. If someone hasn't formally requested a student-teacher relationship with you, is it appropriate to participate in the ceremony? Yeah, I think that if you hadn't requested before, that this would be your first formal request. That would be the beginning of it. Usually when people begin, they don't write that thing. That's usually for the New Year's, but this would be like you would be starting your relationship with Teacher X on New Year's.

[23:16]

You would be asking this teacher to teach you. not just for you, but to be your teacher and the teacher of others for the following year, and you hope the person has good health so they can do that. So yeah, that could be your first moment, or it could be your first request of somebody. Yeah, so I brought this up because the requests that are made, mutual requests that are made in priest training, which do not necessarily work for zaikei bosatsu. For example, in my case, when I'm training priests, I want them to be in residence with me for five years.

[24:19]

...living in Green Gulch in this situation currently. That doesn't work for some people who do want to study with me, but it doesn't work for them to move to Green Gulch for five years. There's other requirements too that don't necessarily work for people like going to Tassajara for two practice periods. But I think there's a growing request by people who are not quite ready to do this priest thing to make some other forms, some other formal modes of relationship. So this one came up today, so I thought I'd bring it up and offer it. And I appreciate your response, and so it looks like we'll probably do that. Just an added note, as I sit here with it, hearing you talk about it, it just feels so supportive. It's interesting the word bond comes up.

[25:25]

It's like a container or even binding. Yeah. To support a bond to become free of bondage. Yeah. Like a vessel. The bond that releases. Hopefully. It makes me wonder how the priests themselves feel about it somehow. Well, how do you feel about it, Tayo? About that ceremony. Or about the name. How do you feel about that New Year's greeting and writing out that document, that calligraphy? It feels like a renewal. Mm-hmm. Maybe a little like shaving my head. Mm-hmm. It's starting in the midst of something that's been started centuries ago.

[26:26]

It's refreshing. A refreshment of something that started centuries ago, is that what you say? Yeah. Yeah. And this is an ancient tradition, and we're refreshing this ancient tradition. How do you feel doing it, Carolyn? It's a very, usually kind of a solemn ceremony, which I'm really moved by. It's very still and very... It's extremely formal. I just appreciate meeting all the priests in that way together. She said it's quite solemn and formal and she appreciates that. And then afterwards there's a photo opportunity led by Tayo. That's the informal part. It's beautiful and it's very simple. It's simple, yeah, it's a simple ceremony. It just doesn't take long at all.

[27:29]

How do you feel about it, Connie? It seems like we laugh every year, so I haven't thought about it, so I look forward to it every year. I must confess that one year I had a conversation of people coming and they didn't. Some of them didn't. And I didn't do well with that. I'm sorry. When you were young, you were writing a death poem. Part of it also is the teacher writes a death poem at that time. So I sometimes write a death poem and read my death poem to the disciples.

[28:36]

What is a death poem? Well, one way to understand it is it's traditional for Zen priests to write a death poem as they're dying. So if you look in the records of priests, there's often a death poem there. So sometimes they write a death poem for years so that if they get sick later and they're incapable of writing a poem, they've got one. And if they don't die, well, that was the death poem of that year and he didn't die. But sometimes they save them. So I have a few saved up. And then sometimes the teacher, as the teacher's dying, the teacher says the death poem just before they die. That's also the case. One is kind of a poetic farewell to life in this form. In the school of death.

[29:42]

So now, if you like, we could do a little ceremony for the well-being of some of our friends. It might be good to just pick up the knots.

[30:07]

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