I remember that there were some things brought up towards the end of the last session that people wanted to deal with and I want to mention my memory of them. One was caring too much. Is that right? Another one was, which I brought up, was assuming too much responsibility or too little responsibility and then there was something about breathing. And I remember those But there are some other things I wanted to just kind of put out for discussion at the beginning. What I say, I would say that the pivotal point in transforming afflictions is letting go. And I've said this before, I'll say something again.

[01:07]

In order to let go of affliction, in order to let go of addictions, we need to be kind to them. And by being kind to them, we can actually be relaxed with them, and in being relaxed with them we can let go of them. Deeply grieving is being kind to grief. Grief itself is not an affliction. Grief is a gesture offering to us and if we can be kind to that offering of grief we can let go of the affliction which is the basis of the grief the affliction is we're holding on to something

[02:18]

And the grief says, be kind to this. We can't necessarily see some of the things we're holding on to. Some afflictions are unconscious. But anyway, the grief comes up and we can become conscious of it. And if we're kind to the grief, this is called grieving. And if we're really kind to the grief, we're kind to the grief and calm with the grief. If we're calm with the grief, we grieve deeply. And if we grieve deeply... that is the door to the realm of transformation. And the realm of transformation is the realm of letting go, of surrender. The realm of transformation that we open on to through, for example, grieving, in other words, being comforted, that realm of transformation is also sometimes called the realm of space, or the realm of the unknown, or the abyss, or the abysm, the bottomless.

[03:43]

To open to the bottomless, to open to the spaciousness, So that surrendering into the spaciousness, into the unknown, is towards the space of transformation and creativity. In the creative mind, there is this vastness. There is this unfathomable bottomlessness in the creative mind. So someone told me that recently she let go of her long her work that she'd been doing and as a result of her work now there's tremendous possibility in her life and she feels really good about letting go of the

[04:49]

of something that she was holding on to and she senses the unknown the unknown goes with so many possibilities you don't know which one but there's anxiety what's going to happen? don't know where are we going? don't know And I felt that this person was being gracious towards this unknown and gracious towards the anxiety and was being careful because there's a tendency to try to get something to hold on to again. So we'll know this is it. And then the anxiety will back off. But if we can be kind to the anxiety and calm down with the anxiety we can stay in the realm of the unknown or the realm of the abysmal, the bottomless.

[06:02]

And if we can be patient with the discomfort of the anxiety and start to relax with the anxiety with the anxiety still there and taking good care of it we're actually in the realm of creativity now and we may see something that we would like to do that we'd actually like to do but we can tell the difference maybe between I'd like to do this and I'd like to do this to make the anxiety almost like I'd like to do this and the anxiety stays So I'm going to continue to take care of the anxiety as long as it's here. And also, in the same way, I'm going to take care of this new thing. But I'm not doing the new thing just to get rid of the anxiety. And again, part of being kind to the anxiety is also being kind to creativity.

[07:06]

Which means be careful of the anxiety and be careful of the creativity not to do something just to get the creativity done with or get the anxiety done with. look for what you'd like to do even if it gets you anything look for what would be creative and is not going to give you any gain and not going to avoid any loss so there's kind of a so and we get into the space of the unknown in the first place if you let go of if you let go of certain addictions then your reward of that is to get maybe more contact with anxiety certain relationships which you're using using using to both obscure anxiety and also obscure the vastness which anxiety is about

[08:14]

which we feel uncomfortable with if you give that up and start feeling the anxiety then you can open to the vastness and in the vastness you will start playing that's where the creative mind lives and again without being aware of grief we can't get if we're grieving we enter that realm but it really means to grief if you're compassionate to anything, you will enter this realm. And once again, when you get in that realm, watch the difference. Watch for, am I interested in this because it will take away the grief and I'll get my appetite back? Or am I interested in this just because I'm interested in it and I'm not trying to get rid of or gain anything? Like, I just got this picture of these two people, you know, meeting at a cocktail party, you know, out in the balcony, you know, and they look at each other, and it's like, you know, it's like vast possibilities, and they're really interested in the vast possibilities of this meeting, and they say, now what should we do?

[09:42]

Or, you know, they want to go someplace and do something rather than just stay there in that unknown space. And there's things people can do which will be unknown, and then they'll know. But is it possible to not go do something that would make you know, which would give you knowledge? and stay in that space of possibility and talk about how can we stay here until we find out what we really want to do to get rid of this anxiety and not to limit the situation down to something we can get a hold of how can we do this and the people might say let's just like walk away from each other now let's give up this great meeting that would probably be a good idea because we can not know what's going on other places too, we don't need to be here to do it and then see if you want to get back together to have some more unknown rather than destroy the unknown by making it into something you can get a hold of was that like crystal clear?

[11:08]

I also thought about some studies they did of chimpanzees and they gave them some art materials like some paper or canvas and some paints and they gave the chimpanzees this stuff and the chimpanzees seemed to actually really enjoy splashing colors onto canvases. Maybe the experimenter showed them what it would do and they seemed to really get into it. And some of them would actually get so into it that they would turn down offers of food and sex. I don't know how long they would turn those down, but they would offer them these opportunities and they would just keep painting And I don't know how, you know, and then, so they noticed that. Then they did an experiment where after they did the paint with one group of monkeys, of chimpanzees, they were just allowed to continue to do the painting and there was no, all they got to do was the painting and that was it.

[12:31]

And there was no, like, you know, reward for it or anything like that. They just got to do the painting and then the painting session ended and then their life went on. Of course, their life had been transformed by this artwork, but the experimenters and the caregivers didn't change anything. The other group got rewarded after they did the painting. And then they did successive... I forgot what the other group did. But anyway, and then they did the paintings again. This group that had got no reward or punishment continued to do it and continued to find it interesting. And then the group that got rewarded also continued to paint. Curators, you know, various modern art curators come and evaluate the creative quality of the different productions. Probably they couldn't tell which group was which, I would suppose. And the chimpanzees that got rewarded, they're... Actually, maybe they even did it that they had both groups paint a rewarding one and that the art, the quality of the art went down for the ones that got rewarded because they started to do the paintings to get the reward.

[13:49]

And generally speaking, that is a characteristic of human art, too. That when human artists get distracted by doing something, and that's one of the reasons why great artists usually have patrons so they don't have to paint to make a living. Or they're willing to be poor and not paint to get fame, to get money, After they do the paintings, then they try to get the money, maybe. But again, when you're in this creative space where you've let go of things and you've actually dared to expose yourself to the unknown, to the vast, and you're feeling the same way that you feel when you don't know what's going to happen with your life, It's not just that you go into the studio and you don't know what's going to happen in the studio. It's like you go into the space where you don't know what's going to happen with your life.

[14:56]

You're not just going to the studio and being anxious. You're actually going to the studio and you don't know what's going to happen with your life. This is the place of great creativity. And it doesn't mean you have to get rid of the anxiety. It just means you have to take care of it. You have to take care of it. You have to calm down with it. So that you can... This open space. And then tell the difference between what you would like to do because it's interesting, because you want to do it, and what you're doing as an addiction. To cover up the... to disguise the vastness of reality because you're too anxious about that and then somewhat reduce your anxiety for a little while and then from there get in more trouble but that's the basic thing is that enough on that for now?

[16:03]

any questions about that? Okay, now caring too much or caring too little, what about that? Any questions or comments about that question of caring too much or caring too little? Yes? Thank you. Is it Pedram? Pedram? Pedram. Pedram. He was telling a story about a relative who had drug addiction. And it reminded me of a conversation we'd had here previously another year about caring too much.

[17:07]

So specifically about drug addiction, my sister was addicted to drugs, and then she was in prison for a while in a mental institute. And some of her characteristics I see in my son. He's impulsive, and he can get addicted to stimulating things, and he's also very sneaky. So when he... like, sneaks his brother's Halloween candy and eats all of it. I think this is a trait that I saw in my sister. And then I tell all these stories to myself about, you know, he's only 13, but I care way too much. And then I have all these invested stories that I, you know, overlap on him.

[18:09]

Right? Well, so now that you're talking, I think, well, maybe caring too much means that you become dysfunctional. So I often think of the example of, I know an eye surgeon who, you know, he couldn't operate on his own daughter because he cared too much. What if there wasn't another doctor? available and he had to do it. Well in that case he should stop caring too much because he can't hand the case over to somebody else who cares a lot but not too much. So we should care a lot but we shouldn't care so much that it really interferes with our ability to serve. So we can try to watch when our care comes from not enough up to enough and then goes beyond that.

[19:16]

And there's signs of when it goes beyond that. You haven't got there. We try to find that balance point. It's like doing a handstand, you know? You ever try to do a handstand? You kick your feet up and you don't get up high enough. Kick your feet up, don't get high enough. Kick your feet up, you don't get high enough. Kick your feet up, you get high enough, and then you fall over backwards. You go too far. It's hard to go right up just enough to stop. You have to fall over backwards or not get up enough. So you care about your boys. And you care so much that you become, well, like, what's the word, disqualified as mother. You know, and you need to be taken away someplace. Like here. Yeah. At Tassajara, we had a fire at the monastery up in the mountains here. In the Las Piedras National Forest, we had a fire around our temple. And so we were in there fighting the fire.

[20:20]

We've had three. This was the one that happened in 77. And so there was an area roped off or taped off with caution tape. And I think that was called like timeout or something. That wasn't, I think it was just called yellow lined fire. and if you were fighting the fire and somebody became hysterical even your supervisor you could say yellow line and the person would have to go and sit in this roped off area because they were caring so much that they were like in your opinion anybody could call that on anybody so sometimes your son could say mom yellow line But maybe you'd say, well, I'm not going to give him that authority. But actually, I think it's good to consider giving the authority to yellow line you.

[21:22]

You know, I appreciate that you care about me, but you care too much. You're getting carried away with your horror stories about me. I think you should go take a break. Go to Mama Donna, Mom. And then if you come back from Mama Donna and you don't care about your son anymore... you know, he'd say, don't go to Mama Donna anymore. But if you come back and care about him a lot, which you always will, but not too much, he may feel encouraged then to start looking at these problems himself. care that balanced care will show him how to look at this problem because he also probably cares too much or not enough probably cares too much about some things and not enough about others and you i think you are quite at risk of caring too much and you might ask yourself care enough about I don't know if there is I haven't noticed that you care too little about anything but maybe there is something like that but your son probably does care too much about some stuff and too little about others like he probably cares too much about the candy and too little about being honest but if he cared a lot about the candy maybe too much but also cared a lot about telling the truth then he might tell you

[22:48]

And if you cared a lot but not too much, you could help him learn how to care more about being honest. If he was honest, then you'd say, that was good, you got that thing going just right. You didn't care too much, and you didn't care too little. You got it right on the mark. You told me the truth. In this over area here, I think you're caring too much. And let's look at that together. Because I have background too. I used to care too much about various things. But I've learned, for example, I used to care too much about you. You know, you remember how I used to be, you know, when I was caring too much and how that really was hard for you. And if you notice how I care sort of still a lot, but not too much. And he might be able to say, yeah, I actually noticed that. That's good. You're getting it. I want you to be that way. To care a lot. There's another example. This is a I hope this isn't too scary. But anyway, I know this woman who practiced Zen with me.

[23:53]

And she's a poet. And she goes and teaches poetry. She teaches in the schools, like in Richmond. And Richmond's a very tough town. And she also, lots of murders in Richmond. And lots of crime in Richmond, California, next to Albany and El Cerrito. She also teaches in prisons to adult males. And one of the prisoners there who she was teaching poetry to, she decided that it would be a good idea to marry him because she really loved him. And she asked him one time, her husband, she said, when you were doing the things which brought you to prison, Would anyone have said anything to you or done anything which would have stopped you from doing those things? And he said, no. Of course, many people, like his mother, probably were saying, please stop doing that.

[24:54]

And it's not that his mother didn't love him, but she did. But anyway, she couldn't stop him. And I don't know who else couldn't stop him, but anyway, nobody could stop him. He had to do this stuff. He had to make these mistakes and find out they didn't work. It didn't work for somebody else to tell him, you know, if you do this, it's going to be a mistake. You're going to be sorry. Sometimes people can say that to us and we listen. Sometimes people say that to us and we can't. But anyway, sometimes we have to do something to find out it doesn't work. We have to take drugs to find out they don't work. And sometimes we have to do it over and over until we say, okay, I got it. And sometimes we have to do it over and over until we say, okay, I got it. Drink alcohol, whatever. We have to do these things until we say, oh, I see. Anyway, he had to do these things which got him in prison for a long time. So she says to him, what would have been helpful?

[25:58]

Nobody could have stopped you, but what would have been helpful if nobody could stop you? He said, it would have been helpful if somebody loved me. They weren't concentrating on trying to control me. They weren't trying to get me not to do these things. They were just loving me as I went through this process of going to prison. Because some people are going to make and they're going to experience the consequences. Everybody's going to make mistakes, and everybody's going to experience the consequences. And the more love you get while you're making the mistake, and the more love you get as the consequences come, I say, the more likely you're going to be able mistakes and also you're going to be able to learn from your mistakes if you actually open to the consequences in other words love the consequences not like them you don't like being in prison you don't like being sick but you love it somebody has to teach this to the person so caring too much means that you slip a little bit away from love and over to control

[27:07]

So you have to convey to him that no matter what you do, I love you. And I will even stop trying to control you. Sure, I will give up trying to control you as a gift to you. And I will tell you what I don't like about... I'll ask you not to do things, but I'm not asking you not to do those things because I'm trying to stop you from doing them. I'm just trying to give you a gift of letting you know who your mother is. and I respect you, I know I cannot control you I know you're a powerful being and you don't have to prove to me you don't have to prove to me that I can't control you don't make them do it because you love them too much let them do it because they want to find out how this works And then show them how you're willing to watch them every step of the way so they can watch themselves every step of the way.

[28:12]

When you care too much, you actually can undermine your love and they don't get what they need to which will be useful to them if they do make mistakes because then they can apply the love they learn from you to learn. That's what I would say. So one thing you said to me, which has helped me and probably him, I'm sure, is one time you said, just love him for who he is. And my initial reaction was like, well, not really, because if I do that, then what will happen? Because he's a spaz and he'll have no friends and, you know, all the stories in my mind. What I've been trying to do is just love him for who he is, really, without projecting any future possibility on it. Just... And you're teaching him how to do that.

[29:15]

It may take him a while to learn it, but you're teaching him. And then he, being a spaz, and then he can learn how being a spaz works. But if you don't teach him how to love the way he is, you can only learn from who you are. You can't learn from who your mother wants you to be. You're not going to learn from that. But if he feels like, hey, I'm totally supported by my mother to make mistakes because my mother actually thinks, if I would ask her, I bet she thinks that I'll make some mistakes. My mother trusts me not... My mother doesn't trust that I'm not... My mother trusts me learning from my mistakes if I would love myself when I make them the way she loves me when I make them. That's what my mother trusts. My mother trusts love, not me.

[30:16]

She knows I'm going to make mistakes. That if she loves me, and she does, that I'll love me and then I can learn. But she doesn't trust that I won't make mistakes. She doesn't tell me, I think, you know, I trust you won't make mistakes. She doesn't say that. As a matter of fact, she sometimes said, do you think that was a mistake? Yes, and she said, I agree. Or, you know, she sometimes said, you know, I think that was a mistake, what you just did there. And the way she says it is like, she's just like telling me how she feels, that's all. She just wants me to know that's how she feels. So I just spoke with my husband. Miles stayed the night at a friend's house. And when my husband picked him up, the friend's father said, well, Miles was here, but he wasn't present because he was on his eye touch all night. So this may feel controlling to him, but when I go home, you know, give it to me.

[31:22]

I love it. As a gift. And of course, you're just being playful now, aren't you? Yeah, but also he is. Oh, is he? That's your prediction? Yeah. You mean you're going to say, please give it to him, and he's going to give it to you? He will. Okay, fine. Say, please give it to me, and then he gives it to you. That seems fine. And if he loves you, then what? Oh, he will. Oh, he will. I'm not just saying because I'll punish him until he does. Yes, but because he loves his mom and whatever his mom wants, he gives it. Well, no. You know, we've set up some boundaries with him before that if you do what's asked, then you get another boundary that you might not like as much as the first one.

[32:27]

So then again, this is another place to look to see if you care too much. So when you give boundaries, when you give boundaries, are you giving them as a gift or are you giving them to control? And if you set up boundaries in the past that were given to control and you haven't gone back and told the kid, I just want to make sure you know that I gave that boundary as a gift, it wasn't trying to control you. If they thought you were trying to control them and they agreed with that before, then it may be deceptive of you. Well, sometimes it's a fine line between control and setting a boundary, you know, as a gift. Because I'm the one who has the car keys and the credit card, you know, so am I being controlled only by healthy food, or am I giving it as a gift? He thinks it's totally controlling, but, you know, sometimes I do give them treats. It's just a matter of... If he thinks it's controlling, that doesn't mean it is.

[33:34]

Right. And if he thinks it's controlling, and you accept that he thinks it's controlling, that's all the more sign, maybe, that it's not controlling, that he would accuse you of that. But again, watch the word ''setting boundaries.'' Some people I'm working with, adults I'm working with, they think that I'm setting boundaries, but actually I thought we established the boundaries together. I thought it was mutual consent of adults that we set certain boundaries so that we can use these boundaries to establish intimacy. I only need boundaries, generally speaking, I only need to... to establish boundaries with people that I'm being intimate with. People I just meet, generally speaking, I don't have to go through the fairly laborious process of coming to agreement about boundaries in our relationship.

[34:35]

So are you using these precepts, are you using these as a way for you to be more intimate with your son? That's my question to you. to look at and again that will help you find out if you care too much I again I don't see much sign of you caring too little the only excuse me for saying so but the only area where you might not be caring enough is you might not be caring enough for teaching your son intimacy maybe I definitely feel like sometimes you're almost caring too much so Like I also, to my grandson one time, he used to, when he was a little boy, when he was shortly after, when he was just barely able to walk, like I think under, maybe about two years old, he and his mother lived in San Francisco, Chinatown, and one of the main streets of San Francisco's Chinatown is called, I believe, Stockton.

[35:39]

Of course, the main streets, Grant, and there's Stockton and Mason. I think they lived near Stockton, but maybe it was Mason. Anyway, around the corner from their apartment was a beautiful little park. And right next to the park is this very busy street full of people. And he wants to go into the street. And I actually do not want to be controlling him. I try not to control him. But I was trying all kinds of tricky ways to not control him. Like I said, I was just grabbing him and taking him and putting him on the sidewalk. I taught him other ways, which I felt weren't so oppressive and overpowering. But instead of overpowering him, I more like outflanked him. I was more like, with speed and agility, kind of like distracting him from going into the street, but not really crushing him, which I didn't want to do, and I still don't want to. What I should have done with him, actually, now I feel, is I should have gone into the street with him.

[36:47]

Now, it's somewhat dangerous to go in the street with him, but it's not so dangerous for me to go into the street with him, because I go into the street. see what the street was like with my guidance and he could see how big those trucks were and he could feel their power and he would soon i think realize that this this is not a good he would probably back out of the street but i'd be right with him but i realized that after the fact after i tried to um without controlling him and this reminds me of another story another famous zen story which is the story of archery. It's from a book that was famous in the early days of Zen in America called Zen and the Art of Archery. And so the archery is to pull a bowstring back and hold it until the bowstring was released, but not by you releasing it, not by you controlling the release, but just wait until the bowstring was released.

[37:57]

not you letting go letting go to happen be kind and compassionate to the situation of this stress until the stress was released and the teacher said when it's released it will be like the bow string goes through your fingers so he couldn't stand this anxiety to release the bowstring without releasing it and the way he did it was hold the bowstring half as strong as you did before and then hold the bowstring half as strong as you did before and then hold the bowstring half as strong as you did before and he kept doing that and suddenly the bowstring was released and the teacher saw that and said get out of this practice place and the guy kept coming back saying can I practice for two years he begged to come back and finally he was allowed to come back and then he pulled the bowstring and held it and didn't figure out a way to let go of it and he said one day the bowstring went through my fingers so it's hard to be there and so you know in some sense

[39:16]

you'll probably figure out a way to not control your son, or I'll figure out a way to not control my grandson, which is really not the thing, until I find a way to do it with him. And by the way, after I figure out a way to keep him from going in the street, then the next thing he does, And then, you know, he wasn't going to get run over by the truck in the shop, but he was going to destroy the shop. So then I tried to control him in the shop. So it's very difficult not to control these little creatures, especially when they get to be big creatures. But I said it's very difficult not to control them. What I mean is, it's very difficult not to try to control them. It's very difficult to give up trying to control them. You cannot control them. It's a delusion to think you can control. You can't. And you know, again, excuse the terrible example, but there are examples of people who control.

[40:20]

And finally, the only thing the child can do, they can't fight back the parents, because the parents are crushing them into control. The only way they can get back to the parents is by hurting themselves. Because you cannot stop them from hurting themselves. That they can do. you think you can stop them from hurting other kids and at last resort if you only give them one choice they'll hurt themselves so we really have to be careful not to try to control but giving boundaries is one of the most wonderful gifts we can give It was a wonderful gift that my wife gave me that boundary. She didn't... It wasn't controlling me. She just told me, if you do this, I'll leave. That didn't control me. I just decided not to hit her and still haven't. And, you know, there are many times when I really thought it would be fun to do so.

[41:23]

You know, just plain old fun. Just give her a nice little wacko. But she said no. So I have... So for 35 years, I have not been hitting her. And I... What did you say? This is public. She knows that I've already told people that she set this rule. I think I've said that quite a few times. I think I've said it quite a few times. Anyway, she doesn't ask me not to say how I feel. She just doesn't want me to tell you how she feels. Except for things I've already said, and I can say those again. So anyway, your wife saying that to you makes sense because you're both grown-ups.

[42:26]

But what am I going to say to my son? Don't use your eye touch or I'm going to leave home. No, that won't work. Number one is, please give it to me. Yeah. Just say it and see if, and say, or you can say, and you could also say, I don't want you to do what you did the other night. You know. Did you already tell him that if he did that, you'd take the phone away? Um. We had a very long talk about appropriate use. He has had it taken away for the past week. So when you go home, you can tell him, I got this report, and as a result of this report, I'm thinking of asking you to give it to me. Usually, what do you think we should do? And he comes up with a punishment that's worse than what we would give to him.

[43:27]

So that's usually how it happens. So you're going to say to him, this is what you did. I've asked you not to do it, and you did this. So what do you think would be a reasonable way to deal with this? And he'll say, fine, I'll give it to you. But he will still interpret that as my controlling him. And you can ask him, do you think that's what I'm doing? You see what he says. And maybe he'll say, no. And you say, really? And he'll say, maybe, I don't know what he'll say. He might say, no. I think we're working this out together. And you say, really? Say, yeah. I'd say, wow. You know, you might be surprised. Maybe he doesn't think you're trying to control him. Maybe he thinks you respect him. And that you're actually being fairly... What's the word? Maybe he thinks you're, like, not looking down on him and thinking you're better than him. Maybe he does. You know, there's a Bodhisattva precept called not praising yourself at the expense of others.

[44:32]

So you can actually think, I have a lot of experience with these kinds of things. And based on that, I've thought about this a lot and talked to people about this a lot. And I think it's not so good for you to do that. That's my view. And you can say that without thinking you're better than him. And does he get that? Does he get that sense that you're not thinking you're morally superior to him? I don't think parents are morally superior to their children. Suzuki Roshi, the founder of Zen Center, I didn't think he was morally... I didn't think he thought he was morally superior to the students. And actually, I don't think he was morally superior to the students. However, the fact that he didn't think he was morally superior gave him a lot of moral authority. Moral authority is not... So you may have moral authority with him. And I think you would have moral authority if you had conviction of your morality without being attached to it and without thinking you were better than him. So he's at an age, 13 is pretty old.

[45:36]

You can have quite sophisticated talks with him. So now go back with this conversation in mind and talk to him about it. I mean, excuse me for saying go back and do that, but that would be a way for you to find out, do you have a balanced attitude towards him? We know you care about him, but do you want to convey to him, you know, I respect you, I respect your intelligence, you're a big boy now. You're still a boy, but you're a big boy, and you're intelligent. I'd like to talk to you about this. And not just like, what do you think we should do? I'll give it to you. In other words, he sounds kind of angry the way you did that. So is he really, like, making the decision with you about the appropriate consequence for that? Does he agree that it's good for him not to do it so much? Does he agree with you? Well, you don't talk to him about it. I mean, what else do you talk to him about? This is, like, a pretty important thing to talk about, you know? This is something that he's really kind of... He seems to be addicted to this, right?

[46:42]

So you're trying to work with this addictive, this growing addictive pattern. And how do you bring his awareness to this pattern? For him to look at it with you. That you're both looking at this. How do you do that? This is like a really important thing. One more day of taking that thing away from him, you know, he's going to be out of the house in a flash. And when he gets out of the house, has he learned from his mother how to look at his patterns? If he has, this is a great gift for you to give him. That's called, you're teaching him love. Pay attention to what we're doing. So you say, I'm willing to look at this. Would you look at this with me? Let's look at this. What happened there? Talk it over with him. Can you see why I'm a little concerned with that? Can you see why the father of your friend was concerned? and you didn't really relate to the people? What do you think of that?

[47:44]

I feel uncomfortable with that. What do you think? Talk it over with him. Help him grow up to be your partner. Be your partner in him dealing with potentially addictive patterns. So that when you're removed, it doesn't work. Rather than you're doing all the thinking, he's just basically making deals with you to get you to leave him alone. Anyway, thank you very much. I think that was a good conversation we had. It was good. Yeah, for me too. How was it for you guys? And then there's another related... So that was the talk about caring too much and caring too little. A related topic is... You could say... Sometimes we say take responsibility.

[48:49]

I don't think you should take responsibility. I think if it's given to you, you should accept it. Assume also means assume. if it's a proper amount so assuming and taking responsibilities I would change the word to accepting responsibility and I was having some conversations with some people and I noticed that with children I often see with children is that they they take or accept too much and accept too little so a lot of times children are with their parents And if things are going well, they think it's the parents' responsibility to take care of things. They think if their parents are happy, they're getting along well, and they're bringing food in, they don't think it's their responsibility to keep that going. In other words, they take too little.

[49:51]

When things are going well in the family, the children are responsible for it. And the adults are responsible for it. When a family is happy, it's not just the parent's responsibility that the family is happy. The children are contributing to the happiness of the family. There wouldn't even be a family without them. So my opinion is they are contributing to the responsibility. They are contributing to the situation. That's one meaning of responsibility is contributing to it. But the children often don't think that they're contributing. They think the parents are responsible. However, when things go badly, the funny thing happens, when the parents start getting into fights and hating each other, the children often switch and suddenly they think they take too much and they think they're responsible. They say, is this my fault? so generally speaking it's hard for children to take the right amount namely that they're sharing they have a different responsibility from their parents but they're sharing so generally they take too much or too little and generally parents take too much or too little too it's very difficult to take the balanced amount and there's two meanings of responsibility that we contributed to what's happening

[51:23]

and the other meaning is that no matter what happens we have the ability to respond and we do in a happy home scene children respond to it in an unhappy scene the children respond to it and the adults respond to it we always respond to every situation we have that ability and basically We exercise it. When it rains, people think they made it rain. But in fact, we human beings do contribute to rain patterns. What we do to the environment affects rain patterns. Causing desertification changes rain patterns. building cities changes rain patterns we contribute to the rain patterns but when it rains we don't think I made it rain so a lot of times people feel like well I didn't make it happen or if it's not mine I'm not responsible but in fact even though you didn't make it happen by yourself you did contribute even though you didn't make it rain you will respond to it you will stay indoors or you will go outside

[52:49]

When you go outside, you will wear a raincoat, or you will take an umbrella, or you won't. You will respond to the rain. You're able to respond to whatever happens, and you will. And again, you are not entirely all by yourself responsible to what your response would be. You also share that, because that is affected by other people. You might take six umbrellas, depending on how many people you go out with. again is something we're doing together and this is also part of creativity is that we open to this kind of responsibility that we share it. I wonder if you're getting sleepy. You look kind of sleepy, quite a few of you.

[53:52]

Getting sleepy? It's okay to get sleepy. It's really okay. I mean, I love your sleepiness. Doesn't mean I like your sleepiness. It means I love it. It means I graciously accept your sleepiness. and I support your sleepiness and I'll be careful of your sleepiness and I'll be patient with your sleepiness and I'm relaxed with your sleepiness and we can go to sleep now. Quite a few of you are sleepy, right? So, pretty soon we can conclude this evening and everybody can get a nice, restful night's sleep. But, Is there any burning thing that someone would like to say which will wake everybody? Touch some joy? Okay, so I said this before, but I'll say it again because you might not have been in the room.

[54:56]

I'm suggesting that being compassionate with joy starts by being generous towards the joy. Okay? Okay? Does that make sense to you? And being generous with your joy means that you give it away. If you ever get any joy, Leon, you know, I know you would give it to me. I suspect that if you had any joy, you'd fork it over to me. You wouldn't be attached to it. You'd give it to me. That would be a compassionate response when you have joy. It would be to give it to us rather than, well, I got my joy and I'm going to keep it over here. It's mine. Yes, it's yours, Leon, but would you please give it to me and not hold back any of it? Give it all to me. And you might say, yes, that would be a compassionate way of relating to joy. Enlightening beings are not attached to their prosperity.

[55:59]

Various kinds of prosperity. One is joy. Another is like children and grandchildren. That's prosperity. But the compassionate way to relate to your prosperity is not to attach to it. And pleasure too. Pleasure can come. No problem with pleasure. It's just... It's here, it's an object of compassion. And what do we do with pleasure? We give it away. Any further comments on that? Could I have too much joy? I don't know how that would be. Do you have some sense of it? I think if you get too much of it, you just pass out. But as long as you're trained at falling... It shouldn't be a problem. But it's possible. Actually, you know, there's, what is it? It reminds me of, there's this thing that happens between infants, their caregivers, often their mothers, that oftentimes when infants are looking into their mother's face, their mother sometimes looks at them, looks into their eyes, and the child looks into the mother's eyes, and what the child sees in the mother's eyes is a light.

[57:18]

Actually, they're looking through the mother's pupils into the mother's brain, you know, because you're actually looking through those, right straight into the brain, and they somehow sense from the mother's eyes that the mother's thinking, you are like about the, well, you're like, what do you call it, the cat's meow, you're the cat's pajamas, banana, you're like the greatest thing that ever was, and by the way, you look like me. In other words, they sense this tremendous appreciation. The child sees that. And when the child sees that, the child feels joy. When they feel joy, they kind of sparkle. And then the mother sees that, and she feels more joy. And the child sees more joy. in the mother's eyes and then the child feels more joy and then the mother sees that and feels more joy and the child sees that and feels more joy and they just crank it up there until they get so joyful that the child has to turn away because it's like it's reached this maximum level of excitation where they cannot stand any more joy and they turn away from it and a healthy mother will let the child turn away even though this is like about as fun as it gets

[58:36]

And it turns out that this level of excitation in the baby's brain is necessary in order to activate the turning on certain emotional control mechanisms in the brain. That they get turned on in the state of extreme joy in a baby's mind. has to be able and can most babies can turn away from it so it doesn't get too high and then when they've had a break they can turn back and do it again and some mothers who have certain problems with narcissism when the baby turns away they move their face over so the baby can't get away from them wherever the baby turns and if they do that the baby will start crying usually because the baby wants a break it's had enough And the mother should just let it drop. So that's a case of where it's going pretty well for a certain point, and then at a certain point the mother wants to hold on to that joy, won't let the baby get away, brings it down.

[59:42]

It's not good. The baby doesn't want that. So that's almost like you can get to a point where the joy is so strong, the excitation level is too much. It's excruciatingly pleasurable. And at that time, you turn your gaze away from the red maple trees. You know? Like it's just excruciatingly beautiful. You just can't take a break. And whatever level of joy it is, it always should be given away if you want to. Hmm? liberate all beings. Enlightening beings, compassionate beings, are not attached to their joy, to their wealth, to their possessions. Particularly, they're joyful, they're not attached. And then, they go on to the other passion which we talked about. Okay?

[60:43]

Yeah. Bodhisattva's enlightening beings are very wealthy. They're very wealthy because they have tremendous prosperity. Because what's their prosperity? Everybody's a treasure to them. The way they meet is like their prosperity. They love everybody. They have tremendous wealth. And because people feel that love, people want to support them. So they have great wealth, and they're constantly receiving it and giving it away when they get highly developed. Yeah, and I think we all can be like that. We can all realize that we are very prosperous because everybody we meet is very dear to us. How wonderful that is. So now that you're awakened, I hope you can go to sleep. Is that enough for tonight?

[61:46]

Okay, thank you very much for your wholehearted participation today. Good night.

[61:53]

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