And social action without silent sitting is also a bondage for a bodhisattva. Silent sitting with social action is liberation for a bodhisattva. Social action is also liberation for a bodhisattva. Another way to say it is to practice meditation in silent sitting with a dualistic or sentimental compassion is bondage. to practice meditation with great compassion is liberation for bodhisattva.

[01:12]

So we've talked about sentimental compassion in various ways, but one of the ways that compassion can be sentimental is by holding a dualistic idea of self and other, or the liberation of this practitioner and the liberation of others. I wish that others would be liberated, but I hold some dualistic idea. To practice with such an idea is bondage. to do meditation without any entertaining dualistic ideas is liberation. And I also want to put in a good word, sentimental compassion.

[02:25]

which is sometimes sentimental compassion is appropriate. In other words, sometimes dualistic compassion is being called for. However, at that moment the bodhisattva is willing to be in bondage in order to do that kind of compassion. Because sometimes that compassion is needed in order to help somebody become free. Yes? How do you know if the compassion you are experiencing is sentimental. How do you know? Well, if you think it is, If you think other people's liberation is something other than your own, if you think that, and you want them to be liberated, you want people to be free of suffering, and if your freedom is different from your freedom, that's kind of like sentimental compassion.

[03:45]

That's one version of it. So if I think like that, But it doesn't mean you can't think like that, it just means if you would actually indulge in it, that would be bondage. And that wouldn't, in the long run, liberate people. But sometimes people need something before liberation. Particularly it's nice to give somebody who has a non-dualistic attitude towards compassion, who because of that is willing to take on a dual kind of compassion. in order to show people that the people who are practicing great compassion are not attached to great compassion. They're willing to do small-scale compassion if it would help people. Yes? Do you have an example where Bodhisattvas were willing to be put in bondage in order to help free another person?

[04:48]

one thing that comes to mind is being willing to, you know, talk to people in a linguistic language. And like actually talk in terms of me and you. And go along with that kind of idea might be really helpful to people and get them ready to go beyond that with you. Another example that, I'm not saying I'm a great bodhisattva or anything, but when my daughter was young she sometimes would, I don't know what, be frustrated with me or something. And I didn't really think her frustration was funny. I wanted her to be free of frustration, but then in her frustration she would sometimes say things to try to get to me, so to speak.

[05:58]

Sometimes the things she would say were like, I hate you. And to me that was really funny that she would say that she hated me. I thought that was really funny. Because obviously she doesn't hate me because she so much wants to say that to me more than almost anybody else in the world right now. And I just thought, you know, or she called me various names, you know, and I just, I would often laugh. And that's not, and that was more frustrating to her. So, finally, one time she didn't exactly say she hated me but she said something and I didn't laugh and it really got to me and that was really important for her. But she just like stunned me but yeah I just showed the impact and

[07:09]

That was very helpful to her, just to see. She was trying, not exactly to stun me, but she was trying to, like, see on me. You know, in a kind of critical way, be critical of me. And I accepted that, and I stayed present with it, and it was really, really helpful to her. Yes. Well, both those examples are examples in one way or another, sort of a one-on-one interaction, which is how you talk with them in the first instance, and the second one is sort of this emotional dynamic between both. Go ahead. What about acts like just in the short term that alleviate someone's suffering, like giving food to someone who's hungry or helping someone in a... you know, once this country immigrate, either one-on-one or as part of a more of a social, you know, joint social action to change things.

[08:19]

Do those... Well, those actions could be done as expressions of a non-dual attitude towards these people. It can be done like that. Yeah, but you're not holding any idea like them getting their homicide or their injuries being, no sense of that's different from my liberation. My liberation is your liberation. And I could do any of those examples with the understanding that you being free or helped in that way was the same as me. And you being in that situation is the same as my encouragement. But also, if it would help the situation for me to hold on to a dualistic understanding, along with the same action, then I would do that too. I would want to do that too.

[09:20]

So it might be helpful if someone not only helped you, but if they thought they did, and they tried on, I'm helping you rather than you're helping me. People might want you to think that way, that you're helping them. They don't want you understanding that they're helping you. They're not ready for that. But of course, great compassion understands that it's not like I'm helping you, and you're not helping me. That's not great compassion. Great compassion is we're helping each other. Duality. Your liberation is my liberation. But if it would help people move forward into a deeper understanding of their life, to give them some practical assistance, and also engage in the idea that I... You could do that, too.

[10:21]

You wouldn't have to say it, but you could just think that way. And then they could say to you, thank you for helping me. And you could say, yeah, you're welcome. Rather than, you know... Because you don't see it that way. Because I don't see it dualistically, I can see it dualistically. If you see it dualistically, You know, you have to get over that to see it non-dualistically, but once you get over seeing it dualistically, you can, if it's helpful to people, you can see it dualistically. But sometimes it's helpful to people to show them that you don't see it that way, so they can see it that way too. That sometimes is really helpful for them to see, actually you helped them, I mean they helped you as much as you helped them. Like all these examples, people could understand that they did you a big favor letting you give them these gifts.

[11:25]

At a certain point, they're ready for that. But maybe not when they're young. A child might not be ready for that. So anyway, in Zen practice we do spend quite a bit of effort on sitting in silence and stillness and cultivating a calm, relaxed mind. And to do that, engaging in skillful means or techniques to liberate others, that would be a bondage of bodhisattvas. And some bodhisattvas do have that kind of bondage. They actually are practicing it without having it be conjoined, united with liberating technique.

[12:29]

And then they experience bondage. But again, that usually is not the way to go. But sometimes it might be. Yes? All right. Well, how could you, let's say, if you engage in silent stillness and, you know, your bodhisattva engaging that, how could it not be adjoined with the... How could it not be? Yeah. Well, in fact... Or you could just not think it did. In fact, it cannot not be. It has to be. But... But if you... then it's almost like it's not that way. So, you are, as a bodhisattva, you're vowing to walk the path of Buddhahood, so... Oh, by the way, there is a path where people do practice these practices in order to be free of the world.

[13:43]

And for some people who have the vow to become personally free of the world, for them it's not a bondage. For them it's a liberation. But bodhisattva's vows to help other people be free, for them that would be a bondage. For some beings to do practices like silent sitting to become liberated from the world, for them it's not bondage. For bodhisattvas to do meditation practices to get free of the world would be bondage. It would be, you know, give us all that. For bodhisattva, it's hard, you know, maybe it's a moment where you forgot, or... Yeah, a moment where you forgot. But for a bodhisattva to engage the world with liberative techniques, that's liberation for a bodhisattva.

[14:46]

That is the bodhisattva's liberation. It's to engage with the world in ways that liberate beings. That's the bodhisattva's liberation. To try to get away from the world is the bodhisattva's bondage. It's like the bodhisattva falling into a pit if they turn away from their path. But it's not an eternal falling into a pit. It's only temporary. All falls are temporary. Yes, Elizabeth? How do you know if you're on the path? How do you know? Well, one way you would know to be completely enlightened, then you would know you're on the path. Because, of course, you've got the path.

[15:52]

Before that, you're being told by the enlightened ones that whether you know it or not, you are. So whether you know it or not, whether you know it or not, you are. Whether you think you are or not, too. You could say, well, I don't really know that I'm on the path, but I think I am. Well, if you think you are, you are. And if you think you're not, you are. Also, if you don't want to be, you are. And not wanting to be is calling for compassion. And if you practice compassion, you'll realize that you are. You'll realize it. You'll realize the way you already are is on the path. If you think you're not on the path, or that you don't want to be on the path, and you don't practice compassion with it, then you probably think you're not on the path, and you still will be on the path.

[17:04]

You are on the path. This teaching is you're on the same path as the bodhisattvas, therefore you're a bodhisattva. And also the bodhisattvas are on the same path. Therefore bodhisattvas are Buddhas. But they don't realize it the way Buddhas do. But they are. Buddhas understand that bodhisattvas are the same as them. And they teach bodhisattvas, you're the same as me. Like sometimes mothers and fathers look at their children, they look in their eyes and either they say out loud or they think, you're the greatest thing, and you're just like me. Or vice versa. Just look at us, and they think you're just like me, but you don't know it yet. And even if you think you are, you still don't know it.

[18:11]

But you're right. If you think you're the same as Buddhas, the Buddhas agree with you. If you think you're not, they agree with you, but they think they're just like you, who don't agree with them. So we are on the same path as Buddhas. They see it, we don't. But we hear about it, like now, you're hearing about it. when you actually realize that you're on the path, then you're either a Buddha or a very advanced bodhisattva. But prior to that, you have always been on the same path as them. And they send us that message. That message to us. you're on the same path as us, and therefore you're on the same path as everybody, and everybody's on the same path as you. So in this way, we're all on the same path, and the same practice, and we're in the process of realizing that.

[19:16]

And you can believe it today and not believe it tomorrow, and then believe it the next day. Those are three moments on the path. You can think it's so without even believing it, and that's the moment of the path. You can think it's so and think it's true that you think it's so. And whatever you think, if you practice compassion towards what you're thinking, you will eventually realize that no matter what you're thinking, you always were on the path, and now you awaken to it. Yes, the idea of practicing compassion is always confusing to me because practicing sounds like volitional, and when I feel compassion, I'm not pushing a button.

[20:23]

It's just... You can do that kind. Go right ahead. Nice to have somebody like you in the room. Thank you for coming. Some other people, some other people actually wish, they have wishes, like they wish, Buddhas wish people will be free of suffering. But they don't necessarily think they pushed a button when they wished. So here you've got a Buddha, this wish comes up. And it's the wish that people not only will be free of suffering, but that people will . They wish that. And so on. They have these wishes for living beings that arise in their awakening. They're like wishes. They're like volitions. But they don't make them come up. It comes with being a Buddha that you have such wishes.

[21:25]

And then people hear about Zen, where we have no wishes or no desires. Well, in mature Zen practice, you're not stuck in your desires. So the Buddhas also, they have these wishes, but they don't abide in their wishes. and not abiding in their wishes, their wishes grow and grow. And then as the wish grows, they don't abide in that, and it grows more. It keeps looming. The type of wish they have is the wish that beings will be free of being stuck in their wishes. That's their wish. And then they don't abide in that wish either. And then they transmit that to us. Does that mean we have to let go of our attachment to great compassion? Does it mean we have to? Well, you could say, you could talk like that if you want to, but we have to.

[22:32]

I would say, on the bodhisattva path, it is required to let go of great compassion, can you say? Yeah, let go of great compassion. Let go of the bodhisattva vow. Let go of Buddha. Go beyond Buddha. Go beyond the vow. Go beyond great compassion. That's what great compassion does. Great compassion leads to great compassion. So at some point, that will be your function, is to leap beyond the best thing in your life. And if it's great compassion, it spontaneously leaps beyond itself. Okay? Are you ready? Ready. Yes. People is another thing that reigns. If one were hypothetically to leap beyond Great Compassion, would you still practice Great Compassion, even though that would just be part of who you are and what you do?

[23:42]

Yes, and that leaping beyond would be Great Compassion. That's what Great Compassion does. So if Great Compassion came to you, which it could, and you hesitated or got excited, you might fall into it. And then that's not great compassion. You lost it. So we have this expression. If you're excited, you fall into a pit. Excited about what? Well, great compassion. Which is, great compassion is... joined with skill and means. It's not just wisdom. It's wisdom fulfilled. And if that should pop up in your life, you might get excited about it. And then if you do, you fall into a pit. Now, one translation says it becomes a pit, a pitfall, if you get excited.

[24:47]

I'd rather say, if you get excited, you fall into a pit. Because it isn't like it. It's a pitfall. It's like the way of relating to it. See how wonderful, like you brought up last week, you said, well, is this joy like getting, what's the word, elated? So if you see this wonderful great compassion floating around someplace and don't even think you own it, which is really where it's at, then you might say, not only is that wonderful, but you're being possessive of it. Wow! And you might get so excited you fall into it. You know, like, this is wonderful that I feel this compassion which is so vast and so non-dual. This is like... This is life at its... And then, that's fine so far, but then if you get excited, you fall into a pit. Also, if you see it and you hesitate, you kind of fall into a pit.

[25:50]

So, you come into the realization of how your life is other people's life. how your liberation is other people's liberation, you come to realize that and you feel great joy about it in realizing it. And you even feel joy as you approach realizing it. Keeping beyond it is like not getting excited about it. Like, this is great, let's move on. I'm editing a new book on the Six Perfections, and there was an example I put in one of the chapters which got deleted, but I'll tell you. This is an outtake. So the outtake is a scene from the end of a book called Babe.

[26:56]

Do you know the book called Babe? So this pig performs kind of a miracle of herding sheep better than the sheepdogs do. Like he wins like a national championship at sheep herding. Which of course, you know, of course it's hard enough to do it, but usually they're not that interested. Anyway, this pig for whatever reason was a an excellent sheep herder. And after winning the championship, Babe, who's the name of the pig, and her trainer are walking from the award ceremony. And I think maybe Babe was going to do a little bit more herding or something. I don't know what. But anyway, the trainer says, that'll do, pig. Hmm. That'll do, great compassion.

[28:03]

That's enough. Let's go on. Let's not hang out here in this marvelous situation, the supreme situation of life. Let's not camp out here. Come on, let's go. But there's a danger there that when you get to the ultimate wonderful thing, you might stop for a little while and pull down. And maybe somebody said, that'll do. That'll do. That'll do. Let's go. Again, what pops in my mind is King Lear. After he wakes up, he says, ripeness is all. Ripeness is all. Let's go. Let's see. he kind of wakes up to how wonderful his faithful daughter is.

[29:07]

He was blinded, and he wakes up from the dream, and then he's ready to go, but it's too late. The consequences of a karma give rise to this tragedy, but where the tragedy is, he finally wakes up to what a good father he is, because a good father has a great daughter, right? That's what a good father is. And so he woke up, oh, it's not like I have a bad daughter. I have a great daughter. Wow, let's now live. Now that I realize what I've been involved in and ignorant of, now I wake up to, I've been an excellent father because look at my amazing, faithful, courageous daughter. Even when I was cruel to her and stupid towards her, she still just ballooned. Now I see it.

[30:08]

So now this is it. But let's go. We're not going to camp out here. Let's go. And then she gets killed because of his narcissistic camping out. But when he woke up, he didn't camp out. He was ready to go. And same with Hamlet at the end. He woke up too. But again, the consequences of the karma. We didn't get to enjoy his middle age. But he woke up and he said, readiness is all. So he also woke up to Just be ready for this. Be ready for what? Be ready for the way we're working together and we're all on the same path. Be ready for that. Which means be ready for everything that's happening.

[31:10]

Right? This idea, this idea, this feeling, this feeling, this person, that person. Be ready for each thing. And don't cap out in anything. Take care of everything, and then that'll do, pig. And then next thing. And take care of it completely. Yeah, take care of each thing completely, each person, each thing that you need, each thing in your mind. Be ready for great compassion. which you understand, because you've been educated, that it must already be here. And so I'm not making it happen. I'm not making great compassion. It's more like I'm just ready for it. Ready for it. It's my job to be ready for it, because if I'm not ready for it, then one possibility is when it comes, I'll hesitate.

[32:14]

when it comes, I'll hesitate. The other possibility is when it comes, I'll get excited. If I'm ready for it, maybe I can, like, okay, thank you, let's go. Reminds me of another story, which, again, I'm sorry, it might cast somebody in a favorable light. But anyway... A friend of mine, an old Dharma friend of mine, in a rainstorm in California, in a cavern, in a canyon. I was in a place excavating for the path. And I got word that over the mountain on the other side of the canyon somebody had shown up and said you know my name is so and so and then the person and i want to i want to go into tasahara i want to go over the mountain into the into the canyon and the person said well usually you can't do these and so then he he said he mentioned my name and uh and

[33:39]

Is it okay with you if he comes in?" Something like that. And I said, yeah. So then he came in, in this rainstorm. And he comes in and he comes and knocks on the door, you know, after he's gone through this storm, going over the mountain in a storm. He had already knocked on my door. And he comes in and I say, oh, it's you. If I hadn't been warned, I might have done something different, but my response was, oh, it's you. This amazing visitation. I responded like I should have, if I didn't know anything. Like, oh, it's you. Oh, wow. Not even wow. Oh, it's you. He really thought that was great. And I knew you were coming.

[34:41]

That's why I started. But who knows, maybe if I would have said, oh, it's you. It's kind of like, oh, it's you. Who is that? Oh, it's the one I've been waiting to meet for a long time. Oh, it's my best friend showing up out of nowhere. That's really the way it is all day long. Oh, it's you. Yeah, oh, isn't that amazing? It's you and me. Wow, what a coincidence. So is that what's meant by not being intoxicated by black things? That would be, yeah, that would be like not being intoxicated, like really appreciating and not getting intoxicated. If sometimes we're intoxicated by something, we then like maybe try to grab it.

[35:46]

Or not so much by the something, but in relationship to something, if we become intoxicated, we might try to grab it. But if we're very happy and we're not intoxicated, we don't try to grab it. We're more upright and respectful. we understand this thing that's come to visit is, I mean, this is not better or worse than anything, and that's not better than anything. This is life. This is reality, and it's not better than anything else. That's reality. Reality is that this is not better than anything else, and nothing else is better than this. And then to meet things that way and not get excited about it, then you can act accordingly to this wonderful moment, which nothing's better than and nothing's worse than.

[36:51]

It's just, this is such. This is the way it is. And we don't make the mistake of trying to hold on to it. But even lesser things... we sometimes might not remember not to grab them. The Buddha taught five, I think five, contemplations which are life is subject to or at risk of being lost. Health is subject to, or at risk of, being lost. Your mind is subject to, or at risk of, being lost. Your reputation is, you know, and so on. Everything you hold dear is subject to, or threatened by possible, at risk of being lost.

[37:58]

He intended that you be mindful of that. He says, Without being mindful of that, then when life comes, you might get intoxicated by it. I think youth was another example. When youth comes, you might become intoxicated by it. So it's not that youth and health and life are bad things, it's that not remembering that these things are impermanent. you can get intoxicated by them. Does that make sense? People see youth and they don't remember how fragile it is. They can get quite intoxicated about it and then they can kind of like grab it. Do you understand? So there's a lot of grabbing at youth in this world. And it's been going on for a long time. And it's kind of a biological thing. If you haven't heard the teaching of the Buddha, go rap it.

[39:03]

I mean, youth, wow, go rap it. Which, as we know now, is often very unwholesome and violent and can really do harm to people, even something out of it. But also the price of it is maybe a huge trauma, right? Because somebody got intoxicated and when you're intoxicated you sometimes forget to be careful. Does that make sense? So, with something Like youth, if you're not mindful that this wonderful, beautiful youth is impermanent and you get intoxicated, then you behave inappropriately or unskillfully. People can get very excited about health.

[40:04]

But with the Buddha's teaching, When health comes, you can say sincerely, thank you for coming, health. I'm grateful for the visit. And not get excited and not do something inappropriate. Not get too excited. One time I had a cyst on my hand. It was there for a long time. And I looked down one day and I saw that it was gone. And I got quite excited about it. And then I looked, I think, at my other hand and found another cyst. And I really felt silly how excited I got about this going. So now when something like that happens, I got this little thing here. Well, that's really nice. Be careful. It doesn't mean the next thing. It's just how silly to get excited about this stuff because more stuff, more cysts are coming.

[41:08]

And in the meantime, let's not get too excited. So when the next cyst comes, we can say, welcome. And I'm ready. This cyst went away, now I'm ready for the next one. Who or what will the next cyst be? I don't know if it's going to come from there, or there, or there. I don't know where it's going to come from, but I want to practice being ready for the next whatever. That's the path we're trying to learn. And we are learning that. We are learning that. Yes, Agnes. Yes, Agnes. I have a question. Just because I understand nothing. Because I started by accepting a lot when I was a kid.

[42:13]

Because I was always thinking, okay, this is life. Maybe there is something good there. But I think that could be a sentimental way to be like that. Could be. But also sounds pretty good. Yeah. But then there is always a question of limits. Because then... I feel that I have not been respected because of that. Oh, I see. So I had to learn. I feel that my path was to learn to have a dualistic way. To learn? To learn what? To learn. You could say that, to learn how to protect yourself, but another thing that comes to my mind was, you said the word limit. So, I think what some people have to do, who, for whatever reason, they're quite accepting,

[43:19]

still in their consciousness there may be some limits that appear in their consciousness. So they might have to learn how to let people know about their limits. But it is possible that I feel a limit and I'm very accepting of you, you know, not respecting my limits. So I have a limit, I see you not respecting it, maybe, and I accept that you're not respecting it, and I understand you really need to know something about me. I have something to tell you. Guess what it is? It's that I have this limit which I'm now offering to you. That's a skill. Now, some people do not accept the people who are, you could say, violating their limits. They don't accept them, they don't respect them, Tell the other people about it, the other people have trouble, they don't understand as well.

[44:25]

Because they sometimes, because they, yeah, because they don't respect the other person who's not respecting them. So if you can accept the other person knowing about your limits, then that would maybe support you respecting them. They don't know. Again, like I told you many stories about my grandchildren. My grandchildren don't know. So my granddaughter slaps me in the face all of a sudden. So I have to teach her. But it's easier or more natural and more effective for me to teach her if I already accept that she doesn't know and that she acted that way. And if I don't... And then so I can tell her from the place of accepting her. But I'm also telling her, there's this limit here. I want you to learn about this limit. So how can I tell her? Were you here last week? Anyway, she's the... She's the one... Did I tell you a story about her peeing in the swimming pool?

[45:32]

No. So she peed in the swimming pool and she knew she wasn't supposed to. So then afterwards... But as her mother reported, she was... we say beside herself, she was like just totally in ruins, totally, totally, you know, crushed by the remorse for peeing. So when she slapped me in the face, for, you know, no reason, just for fun, to see what I think, you know, she knows she can't hit the kids in her school that way. I think with this guy, I can maybe hit him as hard as I want. My brother said, with granddaddy, you can do no wrong. Which is true. Those kids can do no wrong with me. When she slapped me? Yeah.

[46:34]

Yeah, I said, I went, wow. I said, that was really hard. It was really hard. That was okay. And then I started to talk to her a little bit about that actually, that was, for me, you know, I'm a big man, so, but, you know, I started talking about, but with the other kids, you know, and then I started, and she, what she calls, but I was, you know, That gentle information was really hard for her. If I hadn't been respectful to her, that would have just been traumatic and would not have been a learning experience. And she does like to try out stuff on me, like jump on me, kick me in the face and stuff like that. Kick me in the chest, but not in the face. So I show her the limits, and she's learning them. But there's never, I'm never like, I'm respecting her limits. And her limits are like, she cannot take very strong feedback because she's very sensitive.

[47:39]

Like, when she feels like she does something off, she feels it very deeply. So I just, you know, so I, because I accept her, her experiments on me, I really do. But I also feel like there's limits. And like kicking me in the face, I feel like, that's what I tell her. And I also told you the story about her. I had some other grandchildren who were, well, her brother is 12 years older than her. And he also would, like, pinch me and stuff to see, you know, does that hurt? No. Does that hurt? No. Does that hurt? Yes. Does that hurt? Yeah. Does that hurt? But he wasn't doing wrong. He was learning. He was learning limits on my body, which I'm happy to serve him in that way. And he has some cousins, and they're not really cousins, but anyway, other grandchildren. One time I was visiting, they put their hands, they were playing with my face, and they put their hands in my mouth when they were little, and their hands fit, even two children's hands would fit.

[48:51]

So they put their hands in my mouth, and I said, you can do that. but your hands are really dirty. They taste really bad. So, if you want to put them in, you've got to go wash them. So they went, they went and washed them, and then they came back and put their hands in my mouth again, and I said, you know, you didn't wash them well enough. So they tried again, and then they came back, and their hands smelled clean and tasted okay. So I, you know, there, I, We are here to teach people how to be skillful with other people's limits. And loving them helps us say, I've got a limit for you. Wash your hands. Take a bath. Don't eat sugar at seven at night. We have these limits we offer them, but we offer them from accepting.

[49:57]

But we still have to learn how to do that. And it's good not to go too long, because then if we push ourselves too far, then when we offer the gift of the information of the limit, we may not do it respectfully. So it's good to do it quite soon, when we start to feel it, and say, Oh, may I give it? Yeah. So the acceptance is good, It's a little like being a grandmother when you're a little girl. But grandmothers and grandfathers... although they're very accepting, they also need to tell the children the limits that are there. Because there are limits that grandparents do feel like. Their hands are too dirty. Please wash. Or, that was really hard. You should know that that's too hard to hit other kids like this.

[50:58]

But the advantage is you already have this background which is kind of a grandmotherly background. So you can use that along with learning how to give limits. Not to control people, but to let them know that they're trying to find out how to love. And they need feedback on what's not appropriate for you. You want to. Speak to me, speak to me. Sometimes I tell the grandchildren these stories because they may have happened before they can remember.

[52:46]

So I tell them so that they can have them for the future. I put together a book of stories about my oldest grandson, the oldest grandchild. And how old is he now? He's a freshman at UCLA. And he's doing very well. And just at Thanksgiving, where everybody was celebrating how well he's doing, and being grateful for how well he's doing in college, I sent him this book.

[54:02]

I said, would you check it out and see if you feel okay about me publishing it? So I sent it to him. I said, did you read the book? And he said, no. I said, well, you don't have to read it, but it's okay if I publish it. He said, yeah. So he may never read it, but he told me I could publish it. So how does this connect with these childhood, for example, connect with non-attachment to the past? Because I think as teachings, I can understand using them as teachings, but what's the difference between the stories of the past that Carrie, in that we tell an attachment to those stories and how you differentiate and distinguish the story that we talked about, the idea that we're attached to the story of who we are, for example, and how does that differ from what it is from telling the story of who we were, for example, so the story of what happened.

[55:28]

I thought I heard several questions there, so... I'm sure you did. And there are many more. But one that you... Well, one question which you didn't exactly ask, but the question is, how can we not be attached to our stories of our life? And then you say, well, if you got... I think you got the... the implicit and implicit suggestion that it might be a good to not be attached to the stories of our life. I think maybe I have suggested that. So then you're saying, okay, so again, how can that be the case that we wouldn't be attached to the stories? If you want people to be free of attachment to their stories, why do you tell them more stories? That could be another question. But, or you could also say, which you didn't exactly say, but how could telling stories be for the sake of helping people?

[56:39]

So I want, so actually I would like to tell my grandson stories about him for the sake of him becoming free of stories about himself. So I want him to have some good stories to not... And the basic way to not be attached to stories is... That's part of it. Yeah. Tell lots of them, she said. You've got lots of stories? She said you could tell lots of them. Tell lots of them, yeah. Tell lots of them, yeah. Tell lots of them. That would be... The word I was looking for is conversation. So if you've got... My grandson has lots of stories, I give him some more.

[57:49]

And I give him more, so he's got stories. If I'm not around, he still has lots of stories, of course. So now I'm going to give him stories. These stories are given to him for the sake of becoming free of the stories I give him and all the other stories in his life. It's a conversation. It's by conversation that we begin. I cannot become free of my stories by myself. conversation with you is how I become free of my stories of us and me and so on. So yeah, I tell more stories. So that's what I tell my grandson, more stories to add on to the stories. And these stories have his grandfather who's interested in talking to him about them. And if I lived long enough, he'll come back and talk to me about these stories. And he'll also come and ask me about some other stories, which he will realize by conversation are his stories, and thereby become free of his stories.

[59:11]

And that conversation is great compassion. In great compassion there's no attachment to this is my story, And that's your story. Yes, it's your story, but there's no dwelling in it. Your story and not my story. All your stories are really my stories and vice versa. Somehow we need conversation to realize that. So is that the same as saying that the stories, everyone's own stories are kind of universal? There's usually a universal empathy or experience of similar... That your stories are universal? Yeah, in a way, I guess. The conversation, ultimately, you'd realize that. Every one of your stories is a universal story. Because every one of your stories is representing the whole universe in story form.

[60:18]

I'm just thinking. Does somebody else have a question? Anyway, when you're telling stories, they become like the human story. They move out from you. Or when you tell them, they're not family stories. And as I often mention, Good stories hold families and communities together through difficulty. What are your thoughts on telling dreams? Once again? What are your thoughts on telling dreams? On telling dreams? I think those are also excellent opportunities for conversation. Dreams are basically our consciousness when we have our eyes shut.

[61:43]

But they're also, they're just like waking consciousness. They're like consciousness with your eyes open. There's a self in there. Like I had a dream just recently of some people who were like, I didn't remember exactly what they were saying, but it was talking about me. And I noticed that I didn't, I was kind of like, thinking, you're not being very nice to me. And I was kind of disagreeing with them, too, about whatever it was. I don't remember what it was, but I was just kind of like, that's not very nice, the way you're talking to me. It's up to you in my dream. So I think maybe in my daily life I also had some problems like that. I mean, in my dreams with my eyes open, I have problems like that. And in some ways, one of my problems is that you don't tell me enough bad things about me.

[62:47]

And I need that. Well, not necessarily bad things, but things that make me wonder about myself. So in that dream, I was kind of wondering about myself, but I don't know what welcomed me to this person who was talking to me. And when I woke up, I kind of remember quite clearly, which I don't often, of this guy who was taller than me, who was talking to me in that... He wasn't exactly disrespectful, but he was kind of harsh. And I thought, somehow this is easy to remember. This image of this harsh person had quite an impact on me. And I kind of think, yeah, this doesn't happen to me so much. And I think I also wasn't that welcoming to his comments. But somewhat welcoming, because it happened in my mind, and I remember it, and I told you about it.

[63:56]

Now you're ready. What? Now you're ready. You can say, oh, let's see it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. I'd like to share a dream I had last week. It was a disturbing dream. I drank Donald Trump. Congratulations. He was quite pleasant. Oh, my God. What a nightmare. So he was just, you know, he was really a Taurus. There was just nothing bad about him. And, you know, I was like, you know, you're right. And when I woke up, I was disturbed. Well, I think there's not a single part of me that doesn't... Wait a second. There was a part of you.

[65:04]

Well, yes. But anyway, I was surprised. But here's what's interesting. That very night, I was having dinner with some people I work with. One of them was a shaman from the Ecuador Rainforest, and he happened to meet me. And I go, well, I'll come and dance with you for dinner. So I said, well, by the way, you know, he said, just like this dream. And he said, oh, yes, that makes perfect sense. He says, in the spiritual domain, I mean, he's, there's nothing in the domain of power to have a problem with him. But he still wasn't surprised by it. But I was surprised. So I wanted to say that, and this is, I think, the highest dependence class that was ever hatched, particularly then. It took a moment, but then it came, and that's it. The way you were in the dream is kind of the way Agnes was talking about.

[66:17]

You're quite accepting of him. And then can you bring that accepting? And you did, you brought that accepting of this person in a certain realm. But then now, she also needs to express limits. which you're doing. Okay. I can accept you in my life. You're another human being. On the spiritual level, we're like brother and sister. You're my brother. About the same age. You're my brother with a hairdo. And I'm looking for ways to tell you to offer you limits, to tell you things I need you to do. But from the point of view of, you're my spiritual brother, and in the world, you're kind of like my opponent, or something like that.

[67:24]

But I want to come from this, you're my brother, and your sister has something to ask you to do, or encourage you to do, or help you to do, which I haven't seen you do yet, and I want you to learn it. The opportunity of dreams is maybe to tap into a spiritual perspective on our relationships and then bring that into our waking life. In an appropriate way. Yes.

[68:47]

Since this is the last class, I'm pretty grateful to have learned a lot from the topic. A whole bunch of things have stuck pretty well. I can start working. Still, having come through seven weeks, I'm not clear on what the relationship is between sitting in silence and... Social action in the sense of group social action. Because almost all the examples you've given the whole time, the things you can do as an individual to help someone else along the path, or even just temporarily alleviate their suffering so that they can whether it's out of sentimental compassion or what, but any kind of group social action, group political action fit to that. I'm still not clear on that. Before I tell you this, I just want to ask you beforehand to get ready to forgive me for what I'm about to say.

[69:58]

Are you ready? Sure. If she can forgive Donald Trump. This is an example of group activity. There's you and me, but also there's this whole group. So this is part of what you're doing as you're coming to be with these people. This is a group activity. So accepting one person is a one-person version of a group. But a group... can also be many people. For example, it can be 48 or whatever. This is an example of a group. San Francisco Zen Center is another group. My individual practice is to work with groups. And so here you are.

[71:01]

And you can also go to another group and do the same thing with another group. So this is a group activity. That's what I would say. And if I go to the supermarket, if I go to a demonstration, it's another group activity. Anyway, interacting with groups, social action, is a necessary part of Zen practice, of Bodhisattva practice. The way we act in the security line at the airport, the way we act in traffic jams, the way we act wherever we are, if we just do our own personal practice without engaging with other people, and we're in groups of one to uncountable, then we're not doing the practice properly.

[72:08]

So group action is part of it. And so this is, for example, one of the groups that I'm in, one of the groups you're in, you're in other groups, and so am I. Sometimes the group is just two people. A lot of times, for me, the group is two people. But it's for you too, right? A lot of times it's just you and one other person. Well, that's social action. For you to be supportive of Barbara John is social action. For her to be supportive of you. For you to be supportive of your children is social action. For you to be supportive of the children in your children's schools is social action. For you to talk to your children's teacher or to influence the way the school works is social action. So all these are opportunities for social action and develop skills which can be expanded out into larger and larger groups, and we want it to pervade all beings.

[73:16]

We're working on that. We're studying how to extend what we can do in a dream or in a meditation session to every meeting with one innumerable beings. That's the overall program. Thank you so much for making this a group and taking care of the group. You coming encourages the other people to come. We encourage each other to support each other. Thank you for supporting each other.

[74:05]

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