I have a public service announcement. Can you hear okay, John? Yes, I can. Someone expressed a need to be supported by others in order to cultivate meditation on the Bodhisattva precepts. So an online study group has started, which is called Being Upright Group Study, or BUGS. And also today, I think at lunch, I was talking to Rose and Kriya and who else was there? Taneel was there and they thought they would like to do something locally, maybe face-to-face rather than online.

[01:18]

So if you'd like to maybe get together with them to study the precepts, perhaps you guys could raise your hands so people can see you. Maybe you can meet afterwards and see if other people would like to join you in studying the precepts together here. Did you also express an interest? Yeah, in Brent. Is it Brent or Brett? Brent. Brent. With a N. Brent. Yes. So also Brent's interested, so I wanted to say that. Also I was wondering if you have any feedback on not having a work period today. Was that okay? So-so? Either way is okay? Any response? It's nice not having to bring all the different clothes. If we knew we didn't have a work period, then I'd bring less stuff. Okay. Yes.

[02:19]

Work period kind of symbolizes for me that we're taking care of ourselves, ourselves, and not relying on a few people who are overworked or paying people or something. I don't know how this plays in, but I guess that comes up for me. That would be my only concern. Well, the reason why we're not having it today was just so many people. I know, it's hard to manage us. You like the work period because you like the feeling that we're taking care of this place rather than hiring somebody. Yeah. Thank you. It also makes it easier to get through the post-lunch drowsiness to work for a little while. It helps that way? Okay. It is good to have a break. Yeah, but you've worked anyway. Well, we had a break, and so next week, maybe even if we have a lot of people, or next month, even if we have a lot of people, maybe we'll have a work period.

[03:26]

And if we're not going to have a work period, we'll try to let you know. So, sometimes people use the expression Zen meditation, and what they mean by it is the Bodhisattva practice. And then we could say that Zen meditation or Bodhisattva practice does not depend on techniques of managing or controlling the mind. It doesn't depend on doctrinal study. It doesn't depend on ceremonies.

[04:30]

It does depend on the perfection of wisdom. It does depend on the mind of no abode. In other words, it depends on no dependency, on no dwelling. So, we do practice rituals and ceremonies in the practice of developing the mind of no abode. We do do doctrinal study. We do pay attention to our posture and breathing. We do these practices, but the actual practice doesn't depend on these things. These forms are opportunities to practice the mind of no abode. So that, again, the practice can live in the midst of doctrinal study, ceremonies, sitting upright facing a wall, cleaning the temple.

[05:42]

All these activities are activities in which the practice can live. And all these practices, all these activities can live in the practice of the mind of no abode. The practice, however, doesn't depend on those things, and the practice is not different from those things. Not different at all. But usually we need to do those things to verify that they're not different. By verifying that we can practice non-abiding while we're practicing them. To practice them in a non-abiding way proves that non-abiding and activities are not separate. So, for example, observing the body posture and the breathing,

[06:52]

which are being given to us moment by moment, to observe them, to observe their relationship, is an opportunity to realize non-abiding in body and breath. A wonderful opportunity. Thank you. Any questions? Yes? I've been, as you asked this morning first thing, I've been observing the breathing and posture. And it's a way to bring me back, what I've found is it brings me back to the present moment.

[07:58]

But is there, I don't know if that's the desired effect or if there is a desired effect. Depends on who's the desirer. If I'm the desirer, what I want is for people to realize this mind of no abode. And you said, did you say present moment? Yeah, so that's an amplification. The recommendation is to observe the body, the present body, and the present in terms of time and space. And you could say, bring this contemplation of body and breath in the present, would bring one back to the present if one had drifted away from the present,

[09:00]

if one had lost track of that we think that there is a present body. We imagine that there is a body in the present, and that is recommended to be the one to contemplate. The desired effect of this contemplation, I would say, is to realize any kind of dwelling in that body and breath, any kind of dwelling in that appearance of now and here. Usually people are dwelling in the idea of now and here. And if they're distracted from now and here, then they're dwelling and being distracted from now and here. So it is recommended to focus on now and here, because that's the basic place we abide.

[10:02]

That's the basic illusion, actually, that we dwell in, is the illusion of now and the illusion of here, and the illusion of body and the illusion of breath. The dreams, these dreams are where we imagine we can dwell. So the purpose of bringing attention to these dreams and watching how the dreams work together, is to realize a mind which doesn't dwell in them, which is the mind of the perfection of wisdom. Once we are good at remembering to pay attention to the dream of body and breath interacting, then we can move on to the dream of, for example, the perfection of wisdom. And realize that the perfection of wisdom is also just a dream. And is there another dream beyond that?

[11:10]

Are there dreams beyond dreams? Yes. Not that I know of. But it's not to say that beyond dreaming is another dream. So what I found when I watched, what I found today when I was watching the body and mind and the breath, was that when I would think of that, it would pull me back in from other sorts of dreams of different things. It was fluff. So I would come back to the body and the mind, and I would observe the sense of the breath coming in and going out. And that dispelled the random dreaming that was going on. It would dispel the random dreaming.

[12:12]

Okay? Which you also call fluff. Okay? So now I would suggest to you that when you are dreaming in this random way, as a result of losing track of your not so random body and breath, then that other dream seems like fluff. But if you are with your not so random basic body-breath dream, your basic dream of now, and your basic dream of here, when you are with that basic dream and you are really intimate with it, then these other thoughts do not take you away. Then they are not fluff. There are other activities,

[13:17]

but they are based on being grounded in this basic way. So then you can think other ways, and the other ways are not fluff, and they don't take you away. When they start taking you away, they take you away because you lost your footing. If you keep your footing, they don't take you away. They are wonderful expressions of being grounded. But if you notice that you are getting so called taken away, or getting lost in your dreams, that's because you lost your footing in your dreams. If we are grounded in our dreams, we can dream without getting distracted. We can dream as a creative activity of wisdom. And in that way, the world of wisdom is unfolded from this basic place

[14:21]

of dealing with basic dreams, being grounded in them, and even not abiding in them. And then from non-abiding and non-imagination, to do things from this grounded non-imagination. To do the practices which we did before, when we weren't as grounded, and also when we were abiding. So it's possible then that the Buddha offers teachings without losing her footing in basic illusions, and also without dwelling in the basic illusions, or the illusions that are being offered as teachings. Yes? You mentioned the illusion of the body. So when I watch my breath and my posture, I sometimes lose awareness of the body, not because I've gone away, but because there's no body.

[15:25]

I feel pressure, I feel tingling, but I don't really have the awareness of the body. So my question is, what is the best way to work with this experience? Just a sense of pressure and tingling might be enough of a body. I would still propose to you that it's an appearance, it's a dream. Now we're dreaming of pressure and tingling, or we're dealing of inflation and deflation. The body is basically touch, the sense of touch, the sense of hearing, the sense of seeing, the sense of tasting, and the sense of smelling. That's actually the body. You might start with a grosser sense of your body in terms of like arms and legs, and there's support for that kind of imagination.

[16:26]

We might start with that one. You might start with a body that's a torso, that's expanding and contracting. But that awareness might become more subtle into that actually what you're dealing with now is a tactile sensation, changes in tactile sensation in relationship to breathing. That's enough of a body, that sense. The body doesn't disappear. Some gross aspects of the body may drop away, like ribs and torso and shoulders may drop away for the time being. And all you have is kinesthetic tactile relationship with breathing. And if you're present with that in the now and the here, then you can start to see if there's any dwelling in the breathing or the tactile sensations. And there probably will be. And then we have a chance now to realize the mind of no abode with this new version of the body.

[17:28]

But you could have, it could realize the mind of no abode with a grosser, a more common sense of the body. So when you said the body, there's no body, I would say actually what you described is a little bit closer to what the Buddha meant by body. The Buddha didn't really mean the body as the idea of arms and legs. He mostly basically and unavoidably the body is our material sense capacities. That's the essential body that our mind grows up with and doesn't live separate from. John? I can't remember exactly what you said, but what I heard was something about I thought you said an experience of non-imagination. Right, I did say that. No, I didn't say an experience of non-imagination. Check the recording.

[18:29]

I said non-imagination. Non-imagination is a state of wisdom that comes, that follows from imaginative wisdom. And imaginative wisdom follows from paying attention to things like posture and breathing, and being able to pay attention to dreams, to images like posture, breathing, and posture, breathing, interacting, and influencing each other. Watching these kinds of images in the image of the present and the image of here, watching that kind of imaginary activity is called contemplating the body. Or it's the frame of reference for wisdom. Contemplating body and breath. And that ability to do that depends on the imaginative activity

[19:33]

of generosity, ethics, patience, and enthusiasm for observing body and breath. These practices together set up imaginative wisdom where you actually understand images. Then you even give up that understanding of images and enter into non-imagination. Following from non-imagination, you re-enter imagination and now you accomplish things with imagination that can only be accomplished after realizing non-imagination. Non-imagination is also called prajnaparamita. And practicing prajnaparamita leads to prajnaparamita.

[20:34]

But then after prajnaparamita you re-enter into form in a way that you couldn't do before realizing prajnaparamita. So another version of this process is wisdom which pays attention to conventional things like giving, ethics, patience, diligence, and concentration. Body, breath, contemplation. These are conventional things. So one type of wisdom pays attention to these conventional things. Body, breath, interacting. This is conventional stuff. And the first kind of wisdom pays attention to this, becomes intimate and wholehearted with these conventional things and then enters into wisdom which is looking at the non-abiding possibility

[21:37]

with all these conventional things. And then from the realization of the wisdom, non-imaginative wisdom, we enter into the wisdom which is the benefiting of beings, the wisdom for the welfare of beings. And that's the wisdom which now comes back into imagination and shows people how to use imagination to enter the wisdom process. But the center, the pivot point in the middle between these two types of wisdom, one before and after, is this non-imagination or non-conceptual wisdom, prajnaparamita. I was kind of imagining non-conceptual wisdom with the absence of imaginary wisdom, but as you tell it, it seems like there has to be imaginary wisdom

[22:39]

for the realization of non-imaginary wisdom. There has to be imaginary wisdom and also imaginative wisdom. What are you distinguishing between imaginary wisdom and imaginative wisdom? Well, imaginative wisdom imagines imaginary wisdom, non-imaginary wisdom, non-prajnaparamita, Buddhas, Bodhisattvas. It imagines all these things. It imagines suffering beings. It imagines giving, ethics, patience, diligence, concentration and wisdom. It imagines suffering. It imagines birth and death. It deals with those conventional things. That's imaginative wisdom. And imaginative wisdom could imagine wisdom too. But it deals with all the things that we can imagine. And one of the things we can imagine is wisdom, the perfection of wisdom, Buddhas. We can imagine those things. And imaginative wisdom or conceptual wisdom

[23:40]

deals with all that stuff and finally penetrates to that that these are all images and nothing but. And then one is free from the perspective of imagination. And then one gives that up and enters non-imagination itself. And from there, because of our vows, we re-enter imagination and start imagining again. But again, we imagine a body and a breath and we imagine it intimately and we're grounded in it and then we do our imaginations from a grounded place. Then the imagination is no longer a distraction. It's an unfoldment of concentration and wisdom. And the unfoldment then shows other people how to do imaginative wisdom which studies and becomes intimate with conventional things. So the Bodhisattva goes round and round that way

[24:43]

gathering more and more people into the process. You're welcome. Yes, Homa. Her name is Romi. Homa and Romi. Experiencing the body of nobody and I don't know how it happened, at some point... Experiencing the body... of nobody, at some point. Experiencing the body of nobody, yes. So at some point, I don't know how it happened, it's like I totally feel I'm nothing, not I am nothing, but I could not feel anything but this pure energy and pure space, nothing. You know, it's just this whole energy field. And then,

[25:43]

all of a sudden, after being, I don't know how long, that I start to feel the pain. I notice the pain in my right hip and my right knee. Back to the body. Exactly. Exactly. So, in that moment, I felt the pain and not only the pain, I felt the pain before that, when there was no movement. It was just all energy, but as soon as I felt the pain, it started to move. I could totally feel this movement to the body, which it brought me back to the, what I call, this physical body. Yeah, and the movement might have been the breath. That was my question. I was wondering if it was the breath or if it was the imagination. Well, actually, it was

[26:47]

the imagination of pure energy, it was the imagination of the body and it could be the imagination of breath. That's what appears to us, these images. Images of pure energy, images of pain in the something or other, images of breath. But, it's recommended not to skip over the image of the body and the breath and skip over them and go into images of pure energy. I recommend that. Images of pure energy are totally welcome, but I think they'll serve us better if we are aware of images of body and breath and how they relate. Then we'll be able to not be knocked

[27:49]

off balance by images of pure energy. We'll be able to not dissociate from the place where we're clinging. We have to live in the place where we're clinging because that's the problem place. But sometimes we have techniques for dissociating from the place where we're suffering. So, OK, thank you, would you please come back to suffering land? And sometimes we say, no, thank you, and then sometimes the suffering says, how much more pain do we have to give you before you come back? And you say, well, more than this because I ain't coming back there. But eventually the pain will bring us back to this ordinary, basic delusion, basic image of a body and a breathing body in the present now. The rock bottom fantasy.

[28:50]

Rock bottom fantasy. Which is actually the rock bottom generated reality. It's a generated reality, but it's the most basic one. So, chairs are concepts and they work with humans because they're related to the basic delusion of a body. Some other things don't work so well with bodies because they don't take it into account. for example, pure energy might not work so well. But it's allowed. The question is, do we feel, do we get lost in it? And I say we will get lost in those things if we're not grounded in this basic one. If we're grounded in this one, we can go off into pure energy and things like that as creative studies. Actually, the experience of it was not anything lost.

[29:59]

It was not lost or found. Okay. And you said the experience, and I would say... You said actually the experience, and when you said that I thought imaginatively the experience. No, when I came... No, I mean you said actually, and I was thinking, she's dreaming of this actuality, she calls this dream actuality. Actually, there is some truth to that, when you think about it. Yeah, there is some truth to that. Truth to what? Truth to this experience. Yeah. Yes. And I'm saying, I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just saying, it's a dream of the truth of it. Yeah, exactly. Thank you. Brent. Yes. With an N. With an N. And a T. You refer to a mind of no abode.

[31:01]

Is that referring to the same thing as the term Bodhi mind? Is it the same thing as Bodhi mind? Not quite. The fully developed Bodhi mind is a fully developed mind of no abode. But it's possible to have this Bodhi mind, and what we mean by Bodhi mind at a certain level of our development is the wish to give your life to the realization of perfect enlightenment in order to benefit all beings. That is sometimes called Bodhi mind. And one could have this wonderful thought and this real sincere wish to give one's life to the study of the Buddhist teaching and the realization of Buddha's enlightenment, which is the understanding of this teaching, in order to benefit beings. One could have that sincerely and still be totally camping out in it. Just totally abiding in it and totally abiding in oneself,

[32:04]

the image of oneself and the image of others, and the image of suffering, and the image of freedom, and the image of Buddha. So at the beginning of this Bodhicitta, when it first arises, most of the Bodhisattvas who have had this arise in them, at the beginning have not realized this mind of no abode. That's why the Buddha teaches it to them. The Bodhisattvas say, well, now that I've got this mind of no abode, now that I've got this Bodhicitta, how am I going to realize this enlightenment? And the Buddha says, well, practice Prajnaparamita. And they say, well, how do I do that? And they say, well, don't abide in anything. Practice generosity without abiding in generosity. Practice ethics without abiding in ethics. The Buddha teaches this to the Bodhisattvas who have this Bodhicitta. And as they listen to this teaching, their Bodhicitta grows and grows and grows until finally it becomes a grown-up Bodhicitta. And in there, we have the mind of no abode is realized in the middle of all these Bodhisattva practices.

[33:06]

But it takes quite a while to realize this mind in all activities, including the activity of being patient with how long it takes and not abiding in the patience, which is so handy that one might be tempted to abide in patience how long this is taking. Yes? Is there a K also? So, abiding in whatever. Abiding in whatever. Is that equivalent to being attached as opposed to... It's equivalent to being attached? Yes. It's equivalent to being attached. It's equivalent to suffering. It's to attach to an experience, attach to a color, a smell, a feeling, an idea. That's the definition of suffering. And that's a sentient being who has not yet been fully trained.

[34:07]

So, I might be attached to the color blue, but then once I am able to not abide in the color blue any longer, the color blue can still be perceived. Right. But just not abided in. Right. Then you're a mature Bodhisattva at that moment anyway. Yes, John? It's called Supreme Perfect Enlightenment. It's called Prajnaparamita. And therefore we can't find Prajnaparamita or Supreme Enlightenment because we don't know where to get it. But it is non-abiding. Right. You could also call it the tradition, the Bodhisattva tradition of the Zen lineage

[35:10]

is the non-abiding, which all the Zen students are trying to, like, realize without getting it. Yes? I think you said for that moment, it's there for that moment. That implies to me that it comes and goes and there is a period where that comes and goes. It doesn't come and go because it doesn't abide in coming and going, but the moments where it doesn't abide, come and go. It doesn't come and go, but the moments where it doesn't abide, come and go. So it might look like coming and going. No, it wouldn't look like coming and going. The moment would look like it's coming and going. Moments look like they come and go. And it deigns to live in things that look like they're coming and going. And to live there without attaching to the coming and going.

[36:10]

But it doesn't say, well, I'm not going to go where there's coming and going. And I'm also not going to go where there's coming and going. I'm just going to non-abide in coming and going. And so in the terms of coming and going, it's for the moment. One flash of that is not what? The flash is not transitory? The non-abiding is not transitory, but the place where the non-abiding is living at that moment or the place where the non-abiding is not living, not abiding, actually is living there but not abiding. The place is not abiding, that's transitory. And that's where non-abiding is necessary, is in transitory things that are imagined to be not transitory because people are abiding in them. The dream of abiding in transitory things

[37:16]

looks like not so transitory. Looks graspable. Some of the text seems like there's an imagination of a pure Dharma realm where there is no abiding going on. And so is it helpful or not helpful to imagine that there is such a pure Dharma realm where no abiding is going on? It does seem to be helpful. Like it does seem to be helpful to chant the Heart Sutra and to listen to the possibility that there's a wisdom that doesn't abide and that in emptiness you can't grasp any of this stuff or find any of this stuff. So it does seem to be helpful just to take that in and just let that rain on our consciousness. And then by raining on our consciousness it rains and influences our unconscious cognitive processes

[38:19]

which support us to listen to the Heart Sutra some more and chant it some more and copy it some more. And this process does seem to be helpful. It gets us ready to actually understand this teaching without abiding in it. We've been taught how to not abide including not abiding in the teaching that teaches us how not to abide. But it does seem to be good to listen to the teaching which is given for that purpose. Yes? I don't really know how to phrase this but let's imagine that someone... Let's imagine. Let's imagine that there's someone sitting and they're watching breath and body... Let's imagine that. I recommend we imagine that. Could even imagine myself doing that. And there's an imagination of maybe even joy and repose and some steadiness and some calmness.

[39:22]

Yes, the image of joy and steadiness arises perhaps. And what may arise at this point if it feels like there's this kind of foundation would be an imagination of what it would be with not abiding. Yes, you can do that too. And what would you recommend when the imagination of not abiding arises? Is there to ask, is this not abiding? Or what is not abiding? Would that be helpful? That would be fine. Especially if you were grounded in your posture and breathing that you weren't skipping over your basic imagination of your life here in this place, like in this zendo, on this day with this body and this breath. You could also look at... Oh, there's an image of non-abiding that just arose. And then you could ask questions about it from a grounded place.

[40:24]

And you could also go ask somebody else some questions about it. And they could ask you questions about it. And they could even ask you, are you abiding in this image of non-abiding? And you might be able to say, I think I am. And I feel stressed about it. I feel stressed about it. Yeah, and I'm bemused. And I'm abiding in bemusement. And I'm stressed about abiding in bemusement. That's a possible thing you might notice. Or you might not. But definitely, imaginations of non-imagination are definitely available. And imagination of non-abiding is definitely something we are into in this tradition. We have words about non-abiding. People are imagining those words. We must use those words in order to become free of those words.

[41:26]

We must use the words about the perfection of wisdom in order to be conveyed to the perfection of wisdom. We must use the words of conventional things to understand the ultimate things. And we do. And we've been talking away all day, haven't we? So, once again, thank you so much for a great day at no abode. Thank you.

[42:43]

Thank you. I would love to hear your comments.

[42:45]

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