Through practice of the true mind of faith and the true body of faith. I want to express thanks at the beginning of the talk today. Can you hear me OK? The structure in the back. I think it's broken. It's a little . Thanks to Don and his wife, Carol, for taking care of me at the beginning of the trip very generously.

[01:28]

And you are a good cook. And thank you, Jean, for a year or so of work, shepherding and moving this retreat forward to realization, kindly and skillfully. Thank you very much. And Catherine, thanks for also keeping an eye on the retreat and counseling Jean and and helping her liaison with me about it. And thank you to Lisa for arranging all the interviews, which she enjoyed very much, serving you all that way.

[02:30]

And thank you also to Mark for taking good care of keeping me in touch with people and your intention to all the details of doing things and learning how to fold my robe. Yeah, you probably should come back to San Francisco with me so you don't lose the skill. And to Amy, who was so generous and thoughtful and studious. I see you studying late at night, recipes and so on, to provide such delicious and nutritious and medicinal meals. She was also a pharmacist in the kitchen. And also for caring for all your coworkers and keeping the spirit of the kitchen practice oriented.

[03:39]

And thank you all of you for helping her cook all the meals. And thank you all for your wholehearted devotion to the sitting. And also thank you for keeping me well informed about when you needed your rest or something, not doing it unilaterally, but including me in the process. So thank you all very much. And a couple comments, sort of this, again, kind of summary comments or review comments are maybe a little bit different. So I'm proposing to you that one of the definitions of delusion would be that you have a self and then you carry that self forward to the meditation hall and practice Zen.

[04:47]

That's the kind of definition of delusion. I I'm already here, now I'm going to go practice Zen. That's kind of delusion. And that kind of perspective of me plus Zen, or me plus the universe, is delusion, which most of us are familiar with. But we don't criticize this or hate this, is delusion. We don't hate delusion in the Dharma tradition. And we don't like delusion. We love delusion. We're compassionate towards delusion. Deluded beings are objects of compassion. In bodhisattva practice, deluded beings are objects of compassion.

[05:50]

Delusion is a being. It's an object of compassion. It's not an object of hate or greed. It's an object of compassion for bodhisattvas and Buddhas. If we take care of this delusion of I plus practice and I do practice, if we take care of that delusion, and this delusion is a conventionality, it's a conventional phenomenon. If you take care of that, you will be forming a basis for understanding the emptiness of delusion. And then when you understand the emptiness of delusion, you'll understand the magnificence of delusion.

[06:59]

You'll see how beautiful delusion is. Delusion is as beautiful as enlightenment to the Buddhas. To try to understand the ultimate truth of delusion before being very familiar and kind to delusion is not realistic. But delusion, of course, in itself practicing from that point of view in itself, like, I practice this good thing and I practice that good thing and I don't do bad things and I do good things and I don't do bad things, I do good things. That process of doing good and avoiding evil in this deluded perspective is not liberating. However, it's part of the process of becoming familiar with the deluded perspective.

[08:03]

And when you're well familiar with it by being kind to this deluded realm, you're ready to receive the ultimate truth. The insubstantiality and interdependence of phenomena is revealed to you. Then you get to see rather than just hear about that you don't practice by yourself. Then you get to enter the practice of all beings, which you already were living in, but now you awaken to it and totally enter it, and there's nothing left over. There's just the practice of all beings. Used to be me hearing about the practice of all beings and thinking that was really groovy, Now there's just the practice of all beings.

[09:07]

And to bring the bodhisattva vows together with our practice, you know, to bring the bodhisattva vows to get together or to do our practice, our diluted practice, to do our diluted practice in the midst of the bodhisattva vows, okay? So I'm practicing Zen, I'm practicing Vajrayana, I'm practicing Vipassana, I'm practicing this, I'm practicing that. This is delusion. Now, to do that in the midst of the bodhisattva vows, the vows will help accentuate how deluded that is. And by accentuating it, articulating it, and getting it out in front, we can become free of it. This principle of practice is not only found in the tradition of Buddhadharma. It's found in other traditions, too.

[10:33]

As a matter of fact, Jesus said something like, what's in the back or in the closet will destroy you. But if you bring it out in front, it will liberate you. So this is a universal process of liberation. So most people feel separate from most consciousnesses, most conscious beings feel separate from what they know, feel separate from what they see, from what they hear, and so on. They feel separate from Jesus, they feel separate from Buddha. And as Donna pointed out, if she starts to pay homage to Buddhas or make offerings to Buddhas, it seems to make her feel even more separate. And as I said yesterday, it's not really that it makes you feel more separate. You become more aware of how separate you feel. It comes out of the closet when you start to get more involved with what you feel separate with.

[11:37]

And when it's out in front, when the separation is out in front, then... And you take care of it now. Now you can see it, now take care of it. Now you can see it, now take care of it. The separation will be revealed for what it is, namely an illusion, an insubstantial puff of smoke that used to be like an iron wall. And then you'll see that actually you're not separate. that there's just Buddha, and you're not in addition to it. But this is a hard practice. Lots of resistance and turbulence comes up as you start to get closer to this separation. Like this expression, something like, the ultimate closeness is almost like enmity.

[12:46]

As you get closer and closer to what you feel separated from, it's almost like it turns into a war. This is built into many animals and plants. If you stay far enough away, you say, I don't know. But as you get close, You start to feel the problem of believing that you're separate from this thing, from this being. So probably everybody's had that experience of getting closer to somebody and having more problems. Once you, again, and that brings out the separation. And if you're tender and upright with the separation, you will see its emptiness.

[13:51]

You will see its insubstantiality. But what sometimes happens is you start getting angry at the separation and what you're separating from, which is reminding you of this delusion. And so then you have to confess that. So a lot of freaking out happens as you approach this, closer than you approached before. So in what you just chanted, it says, revering Buddhas and ancestors, revering Buddhas and ancestors, we are one Buddha and one ancestor. But that doesn't happen instantly. When you first start revering Buddhas and ancestors, you might start hating Buddhas and ancestors. It's quite common, actually. You start revering a teacher, you start hating the teacher. Or getting attached to the teacher.

[14:57]

Whatever. As you get closer, It gets tougher. But when you finally, completely, wholeheartedly venerate, then there's just one Buddha and just one ancestor. Or just one Buddha ancestor. Not two. But it's tough for a long time. And then sometimes there's a breakthrough and then later you kick back into the old way. So it's quite a What a deal. So again, these bodhisattva vows are ways to accentuate the problem of thinking about practicing by yourself, thinking about practicing meditation with Buddhas.

[16:02]

With Shakyamuni Buddha, a lot of people say, okay, yeah, sure. But get close to Shakyamuni Buddha, and then you start to have problems. But not just Shakyamuni Buddha. All Buddhas. And then you start to feel more and more like, no, it's me and them. Like maybe with me and Shakyamuni that's okay, but me and some of these other Buddhas, it's definitely separation. And me and the bodhisattvas... And then do things to make yourself closer, like pay homage, make offerings, think about them. And then, of course, me and sentient beings. Promise to accommodate to all of them, constantly. And then you'll notice that you feel separate from them a lot. It'll bring the sense of separation out. Make your zazen practice, dedicate your zazen practice to accommodating to sentient beings.

[17:07]

Every moment of sitting is not just me sitting, it's sitting, the sitting is promised and devoted and dedicated to accommodating to all beings, each moment. It's not just me following my breath. Yeah, I'm following my breath, but this breath following is a moment-by-moment accommodation to all beings too. Why not? Well, why not? That gives you a feeling for what it's like to open up to practicing together with everyone. and then also accentuates that you don't want to do this, that you just want to stay, just leave me alone, let me do my practice, which I do. Let me live, go back to when I used to think about doing my practice by myself. Let me go back to my little grass shack. Fine.

[18:08]

Be tender with that one who wants to go back practicing all by herself. And that will be useful to you, because even after you get over that delusion, you'll meet many other people who want to practice that way. And so you will have a lot of experience being tender with somebody who wants to practice by himself, who wants to do zazen by himself. So then you meet other people who are doing the same self-mutilation, and you just be tender with them. And you say, I used to do that too. I did it for many, many lifetimes. I understand it. It's hard to get over. And then that will encourage them, while they hate you. So again, the Buddhas are like shining right into us all the time.

[19:24]

But if we don't focus back on them, they just go right through us, you know. So the practice really lives where the Buddha's love for you, the Buddha's love and blessings for you that's coming to you meets your thinking of them. And where you're thinking of them, where you're focusing on them, touches their focus on you and their love for you. That's where the practice comes alive. But you've got to send this concentrated interest in practicing with them. Both invitation, please come, please help, please be compassionate, And then that touches where they're already doing it. That's where it lives. The path of the request and the path of the response.

[20:35]

There's a Zen story, you know, about the young monk, Dung Shan, who eventually got to be an older monk, Dung Shan. But anyway, when he was young, he was traveling around and he went into the assembly of one of the great Zen teachers in history named Nan Chuan. Nan Chuan was a disciple of another very important Zen master called Matsu. And he was there at a time when they were usually, and there's a tradition of having a memorial ceremony for the teacher or whatever, the ancestor. And then we often do a ceremony in the evening before they died and a ceremony the day they died. So in the ceremony in the evening before, which is kind of preparation for the main ceremony,

[21:42]

Nanchuan said to the monks, I wonder if Matsu will come. And none of the senior monks said anything, but the young monk, Tungshan, came forth and said, he will come if there's a companion. So you have to offer yourself as a companion, and then Matsu will come. If you make the offerings but you're not really saying, you know, this is from me to you, this is an invitation, then in a sense they don't come. Once again, if you watch your stories, including that most of your stories have the story that you're doing your life by yourself. If you watch your stories, which is watch your karma, if you watch your karma, which you kind of understand is you doing things, you eating, you sleeping, if you watch those stories,

[22:52]

graciously, you will see that your action is not done by you. Even your stories in your mind are not done by you alone. Actually, not done by you at all. They are you. You don't make yourself. And the more you take care of yourself and your stories, the more you open up to seeing how everybody makes you. And then you might get angry about that. Why did they make me this way? But that's really before you see how they make you. When you see how they make you, you see that no matter how much pain you're in, it's very beautiful how they make you. And you'll be very happy even if you're in pain. Because they will make you into a sick person sometimes. So the word for karma that the Chinese use to translate karma does not have the connotation of personal action.

[24:17]

It has the connotation of your situation, but also all that which contributes to it and maintains it. So it has that quality of this is your situation, but the word also refers to everything that supports your situation. The word karma doesn't have that connotation, but the Chinese kind of, the word, the character they use is kind of a commentary, a little bit of edification of what action means. And also the Chinese character that they use, another Chinese character, which isn't the character they use to translate karma, but it's the word they use. They don't use it to translate karma. They actually use it to translate practice from Sanskrit. It's one of the ways they translate practice. But the word in Chinese, aside from being a translation, is a word which means walk.

[25:22]

It means practice. And it has the connotation of practicing together. So they chose a word for practice which has the connotation of practicing together, the confluence of coursing, coursing together. That's the character they chose for practice. which, again, ordinary Chinese would see it means practice, but this means Buddhist practice or, you know, practice of the Buddha way. In an ordinary Chinese, it means practice, walk, and I don't know what else. Anyway, action. But they don't usually use that character for karma. They just use it more for practice because that word more directly indicates that the action is together.

[26:29]

Any feedback you'd like to offer? Yes. Please. Would you mind me asking a question now that you're up here? Not of you, but of everybody. Is that okay? Sure. So I have the form of you coming up here to express yourself rather than expressing yourself from your seat. And I'd like feedback on that particular practice. Yes. Would you like them up? No. I like it. Actually, I want you to go around the room now. You can stay at your seats to give feedback on the practice of not staying in your seats. I like it very much.

[28:03]

I think it helps us focus and it sort of eliminates crosstalk, too. I also like it very much, but there's times where I just want to ask, when someone's sitting up there, I just want to ask a very brief question, and I wouldn't want the person to get up and leave and me come up to ask a question or that sort of thing. I feel a little inhibited to do that. Okay, well, in that particular point, I would say what you could do is the person doesn't have to leave for you to come up and ask a question. So it's OK to just ask? No, no, come up. While this person is still here, you could come up and ask a question. You can come up while they're still here. So clarifying that, would that make you more able to move? Yeah, it didn't happen.

[29:04]

Yeah, OK. Any other feedback on this? Yes. From the perspective of the audio-video club, it's a lot easier to record everything. All the voices of people asking questions. You have a quiet voice in the background and a profound answer to who knows what. Yes. I like it a lot. It feels intimate. And that little bit of clarification that just happened is helpful too. I like it. Yes. It really feels good. It does feel intimate also. I come up there and I really, I'm not shooting something from back here. you know I carry it up and it's got to be important enough to carry all that way I also feel like it seems like it

[30:10]

should make a person more nervous to go up front. But for me, at least anyway, I feel that it's always less nervous to be up front than to be talking. Yes. I like you because it made me very aware of speaking too much and out of enthusiasm. and i um i really liked what you said about wanting to ask a question clerk a small question coming up because i just had this vision of all of us through the course of a discussion all sitting on this cushion together which maybe is the intention and yes and i'd like to add that i think the structure actually encourages open-heartedness or full-heartedness So now I wonder whether there are people who were stopped from speaking by having to move forward. It occurs to me that that could happen.

[31:25]

Was anybody stopped from speaking by not wanting to come forward to speak? Yes, and I'm okay with that. I think that's good. Yeah, I feel similarly. But once I, like I have a hard time speaking in front of like a lot of people, but once I felt, once I kind of felt comfortable, then I felt better because the situation is quite intimate. Some place like Green Gulch, I probably would not feel comfortable coming up in front of a few hundred people. But I agree with Carol in the sense that, yes, I had trouble with it, but it's good for me. And that's it. I wonder if maybe we're asking, there's no way to ask the people that chose to leave. The other ones left unexpectedly, I guess. I'm wondering maybe before the retreat. Why don't you guys go call them up now?

[32:26]

Maybe before the retreat and instructions, there could be something about the orientation or something to make people feel more comfortable in some discussion. Rannigan and Lisa? I already said this, but I can't tell you what a difference it makes to have the voices right up in front project out to someone that's hearing impaired. It's huge. Instead of missing, I don't know, 20% or 30%, maybe I only missed five. So that's huge. So thank you. I'm with Deborah. It's not that easy for me to come up and speak in front of a group of people. But there's a broadness and a vulnerability for me that comes with sitting in that cushion. And it's alleviated a bit by a connection with you and then letting my fear drop and kind of connecting to everyone. So it's been a good practice for me. Yeah, I...

[33:30]

I think one of the main motivations when I started it was that people were asking questions and it didn't work on the recordings, but they come up and talk up close. Plus also other people couldn't hear them if it's a big group, but if they come up close where I have a microphone, then other people can hear the questions and it gets recorded. Otherwise, you know, and maybe I can't even hear the question if it's far away in a big group, but they come up, I can hear it, And there's a microphone usually in a big group, and everybody can hear it. And then also I realize something else happens, namely that it's much more intimate. And in a way it takes more courage, or it allows more courage to come up. On the negative side, if people stay back in their seats, there's a little bit of feeling like, I'll just toss that out there, you know. And if they don't like it, I'm way back here. Who cares? A little bit of that can happen.

[34:34]

Not to everybody, but... When people come up here, almost nobody... It's really difficult to half-heartedly put your question out when you come up here. You're kind of forced to be wholehearted, or much more wholehearted. And you have to make an effort. It's like, well, I'll just ask my question, not... That was easy. The price of making your contribution is to be wholehearted. And why not? And the other thing is a lot of people don't pay any attention to people when they ask questions. They hardly hear them. Or they just think, oh, what an idiot. And then don't hear them. But when they come up here somehow, it makes people sympathetic to you. And they're much more receptive and focused on you. That's what I've heard from several people. Usually I don't even listen to the people, but when they come up there, I was actually connected to them, even with their back to the person still.

[35:35]

And then a lot of people say they just want to come up and see what it feels like. And like Amy said, you think about it, and it's nervous from a distance, and you think if you went up you'd be more nervous. But then it is still nervous maybe, but it's like you get to feel it rather than imagine it. So a lot of people just say, I just want to come up here to see what it's like. And then you come up and say, it really is something to be up here. It's more, you know, somehow there's something. So anyway, I thank you for participating in this way, and I appreciate your feedback. For me, it's just kind of boring to have people ask questions from a distance. It's really kind of like almost no one can ask it from a distance the way they ask it up close. So are you going away? Would you stay a little longer, please?

[36:40]

Okay. Were you going to say something? No. You just wanted to come close? I think I wanted to comment just by coming up and being quiet. Oh, okay, great. That was a good comment. So anyway, for me, also for me, like I talked a little bit this morning, but it's just a warm-up exercise for me. It's just like I'm just trying to get a few things clear again before we, you know, because some of these things are really hard for people to get straight. So I'm just trying to get you sort of like lined up here, you know, and then let's do it. But just to give a talk to people is really boring to me at this point in my life. If it's not, what do you call it, interactive, I'm just not interested. I'm not interested to open a book and read it and say, this is what it means, you guys. Or, here's the book, read it and say, this is what I think it means.

[37:41]

That's kind of interesting, a little bit of it here and there, just as an orientation point. I don't want to do that that much. People want me to do that. I don't want to do that. They want me to go through these sacred texts and tell them what it all means. I don't want to do that. No. I used to do it. I don't want to do it. I'm happy to open the sacred text and have us work on it together. Okay. So thanks for the feedback. And now... That was a great warm-up. Thanks. It was really nice. Give me a chance to sit still. Did you want to comment on something? If I might. Yeah? Go ahead. I'm going to sit here. Just one other quick observation about coming up here, and that is also that when you hear the other people's questions and you realize it's the same question that you had, and it makes you feel also more connected and connected technically.

[38:54]

Now, see if you can get it out. Okay. So I wanted to ask you if you could help me to practice, if we could practice something together. Maybe I could try, you know, like we could try something together as a group. Because I'm a little bit stuck on this notion of... wanting to wholeheartedly make an offering to, and I'm not sure who I'm making it to, because I'm confused about Buddha, and then Buddhas, and ancestors, because there seems to be these three things in there. So then I think, well, maybe the Buddhas and the ancestors are the Buddha. Is that right? Well, there's Buddhas, ancestors, and there's Buddha ancestors. So it's three different things, right? But in our tradition, we have ancestors that we really, really appreciate, really feel grateful to, like our teacher after they die or something, or the founder of our temple.

[40:07]

We kind of appreciate the ceremony of once a month going up there and looking at the picture of our teacher and saying, hmm, hi. So that's an ancestor. Csikszentmihalyi is an ancestor. Can I come in from here? No. Come up here, though. if you want to. So Suzuki Roshi was my teacher, our teacher, and so I enjoyed that ceremony. So that's an ancestor, but also he happens to be a Buddha ancestor because the ancestors in our tradition are Buddha ancestors in the sense that they're not just family ancestors. They're ancestors in the Buddha family, so they're Buddha ancestors. And then there's also Buddhas, who aren't ancestors, who are living right now. They're not ancestors. There's Buddhas right now, and then there's Buddha ancestors. So Buddha ancestor means Buddhas, these Buddhas here we've got right now, and Buddhas in the past, and also ancestors who are disciples of Buddha, and then, yeah, that's what we're talking about.

[41:21]

Great. That's really helpful. Okay, so now with that in mind, I was thinking about this sense of balancing, and I have been learning very— publicly. I like to learn my mistakes by myself in my room, but I've been learning a lot in front of everyone. And so I wanted to balance some of that by offering, making an offering to Buddha, Buddha ancestors, et cetera, to our group, to You to all beings self, so the whole kit and caboodle, right? By sharing an insight that I have that I think was really healing and that talks a little bit about transforming the world in the light of Buddha's wisdom. So I guess I want to do that, but I want to ask you, is that the right intention is to say, here, I want to share a poem with you.

[42:25]

You want to share a poem? Yeah, that I think I really enjoy, and I think you might enjoy it. But I want to do it as an offering. Okay. So how do I do that? Well, I think you say, I'd like to offer a poem, I'd like to give a poem as an offering, and are you people up to receive this offering? Because we have busy schedules. Okay. Are you up to hear her offering? Yes. This isn't like a real long poem, is it? No. No. We gratefully are opening to your offering. That's good. Okay. So anyway, this is one of my favorite poems. It's by a Norwegian poet by the name of Olav Haug. Do you know this guy? Yeah, you gave me a book. Is that so? LAUGHTER So anyway, I've loved this poem for years, and I'm going to try to say it the way I would hear it, though I never heard him recite it.

[43:44]

It's called The Fire. The Water? The Fire. Fire. The fire in your heart was sacred. You did not understand. You carried water. water and sand to the bonfire. Humbly, you should have prayed, your hands a nest. Lord, let the sacred fire burn, the sacred guest. May it burn and shine till the last ash Fool you were who could not understand. So now you eat and drink and sleep in peace.

[44:49]

One can quench, not kindle, the sacred glow. So I was sitting with this notion of trying to be gentle with myself and realized that my dogs know better about how to be gentle than I do. Because when they come in from their walk and they're really excited to get their treat, and I ask them to sit, and they just want that treat so bad, and I've got it in my hand. And if I'm not careful, I mean, Buster particularly will just like chomp on my hand. So I'll say to him, gentler. gentle, dorky. And then, it's an amazing thing, their jaw just softens and they take this food. So I was thinking all of a sudden about this poem in this context of this transformation and I realized that maybe I would like to think of this poem a little bit differently and it might, as I move forward, go like this.

[46:02]

The fire, the fire in our hearts, was sacred, we did not understand. We carried water to the bonfire, water and sand. Humbly, we should have prayed, our hands a nest. Buddha, let the sacred fire burn, the sacred guest. Let it burn and shine till the last ash. fools we were who did not understand. So we eat and sleep and drink in peace. One can quench, not kindle, the sacred glow. As you were saying Buddha and ancestor and I went to write it in my notebook and you're saying it's not two separate things and I've got two separate words so then I put a hyphen in between it's still two separate and then I realized that Buddha ends with A and ancestor starts with A so there's a Buddha ancestor and my

[47:44]

wedding ring is Celtic runes, and it spells out eternal love, and the E of the eternal love is the end of the love and the beginning of the eternal, and my husband wears the identical ring. And I also wear a... uh ring with tibetan uh script on it and it just says oh money can be home and sometimes i wear it with the um the the runes and the script where they're facing into me and i was looking at it one day and i realized i was keeping the eternal love facing towards me and i wasn't giving it out to anyone else, so I flip them around so that the eternal love and the Om Mani Padme Hum is going out to everyone. That's all I wanted to say. Thanks for the eternal love.

[48:47]

Is it all right for you? Is that so? Good Lord, that's also my favorite story. But the version I heard was maybe a little more romanticized. The families were at war with each other, like Capulets and Walter Cates. So it's more like a romance. So when, and this is for your reason, because you were so worried about the baby. And I wasn't concerned when I saw it, because to me, the mother loved her baby. And Japanese family duty trumps love. So she must have been tortured. to offer it to this man. And she knew who to accuse because she knew that he has vows. And this is about compassion, equanimity,

[50:14]

and non-attachment. And I think this Hakuin personified it. To my story, he accepted the child because he had compassion for the young girl. He had compassion for the baby. He focused what needs to be done. The child needs to be taken care of. So there was total compassion. When the family is reconciled, and the identity of the father was known then it was easy for the girl to say well, you know, it's not really his baby and for her family to be chagrined about it and go into his house and say, you know, how dare you, this is not your child. And he knows that the child is better with the mother, and now that the mother will be with her husband-to-be, then the baby's best cared of there, and there's his non-attachment.

[51:19]

And the equanimity comes from, he says, is that so, both times. That's what I wanted to share. But Debra still might think this wasn't so good for the baby. Still some attachment problems here. For the baby. The baby still might have had trouble switching from Hakuen back to his mother. It still might have been hard. Even though Hakuen was maybe almost, even if he was almost perfect, still the baby might have attached to him in the wet nurse and had trouble going back to his mom. One survives. This is where I get a little tangled up in my practice. So this morning I was in the kitchen during Zazen, so I sort of feel like I'm doing Zazen even though it involves pots and pans.

[52:26]

So someone came in and talked to me then, and the thing they said to me was, I need to share an enlightenment experience with you. I was sort of freaked out because they were talking in the middle of Zazen. And just their language of I need to share this, it felt like they were way leaning into me. So I way leaned back and said, no, you don't. And they said, maybe later. And they left. So then at breakfast, they gave me this big note, which looks kind of long, which I guess is their enlightenment experience, which I didn't read yet. And even if I read it, I wouldn't want to read it till after I leave here. But I just sort of felt that I guess I have a story about sharing enlightenment experiences. And if you share them casually or something, it sort of somehow diminishes the energy of having had that experience.

[53:34]

So I feel by the time I read this, I'm not sure what the energy is between what that person is offering to me and where I am reading it. But I just sort of wanted to double check with them if they really want me to read this or what your thoughts, if you have an opinion on that. I appreciate what you're saying. Well, you know, I have told this story many times. Some of you have heard it. When I first started being in a position, actually it was when I was abbot, when I first became abbot, then I could, the way Zen Center was then, the abbot was the only one who would give the precepts to people. And so people would come up to me in the kitchen, or the snack area, and I'd be maybe making myself a peanut butter sandwich, and they would stick their head over by the peanut butter and they would say, can I start sewing? And then I would spread the peanut butter on their face.

[54:40]

Did you really do that? And I would say, what do you mean start sewing? Can I start sewing a Buddha's robe? And I'd say, what do you want to do that for? He said, well, I want to wear it or something. You mean you want to receive the precepts and sew robes? Is that what you mean? They would say, yeah. You say, oh, well, maybe we could talk about this someplace else and make an appointment to talk to me. But people often want to talk about something real formal in a situation which doesn't give it, doesn't honor it. because they want to avoid how important it is. It's too intense, you know, for them. Or they think it is. So they don't even want to say, I'd like to receive the precepts, or can I have the precepts? So they even say, can I sew? They want to make it as, you know, that's... But I'm not going to go along with that and say, sure, see you later.

[55:49]

I just, you know... I didn't yell across the room at Suzuki Roshi, hey, can I be a priest? He yelled back, sure, anytime. I didn't do it that way. And so I think when somebody gives you something important and they just sort of throw it at you, and there's something important and they throw it at you, you maybe say, well, if it's important, then why don't you make a... a respectful venue to give it to me. So now I think what you said is you can say to the person, like you almost said it there, would you like me to read this still? Maybe they say, yes. Say, well, would you then ask me now, right now, would you do it now, again? So that they honor what they're asking you to do. Something like that, I think, is appropriate. Not to mention to be giving it to you when you're working or something.

[56:54]

Now, on the other side, One time the Buddha was begging in town and an unusually gifted person came to see him and had traveled a long time to see him and wanted to receive instruction from the Buddha. And he came up to him while he was begging the Buddha and said, this is not a good time, monk. And he said, you know, excuse me, but we may die this afternoon, and then I wouldn't be able to receive your teaching." Because he would finish begging by, you know, around noon and eat, and then in the afternoon they could talk. But we may not be living this afternoon, so please give me your teaching. And he said, no, no, this is not a good time. And he said the same thing again, you know. And the Buddha said, when you ask three times, the Buddha will do it even when he doesn't want to. Or, then the Buddha really sees you really do want this, okay, then I'll do it, even though, regardless.

[58:03]

So then he gave the teaching and this teaching just took a moment, like less than a minute to say, and the monk was immediately awakened. And he got the name most, you know, he got entitled the most rapidly awakened student. And then he said, may I become ordained in your group? And he said, do you have robe and bowl? Because that's part of the ceremony. He said, no, I don't. He said, well, get the robe and bowl, bring them to me, and I'll ordain you. So he went off to get the robe and bowl and was killed by a, got in the way of a water buffalo, got killed. So he did die that afternoon, or actually that morning maybe even. So there are times when somebody comes to you when you're cooking in the kitchen and says, can I give you the enlightenment story? And you say, mm-mm. And they say, but. And you say, mm-mm. And they say, but. And you say, OK. But asking three times, respectfully,

[59:09]

makes it into, then the sacred space has been created. You saying, the kitchen's a sacred space, do you respect that? And they just walk in and want you to talk to them without going through some process. They don't really respect the kitchen. Or they shouldn't say they don't, but they haven't demonstrated that they do. If they ask three times and they're saying, yeah, I know you've got this job, and I know it's an important job, and I respect it deeply, but still, please do this. And you say, no. I know you've got this job, and I respect you doing it, but please listen to me. No. I know you've got this job, and I know this is important work, but please listen to me. You say, okay. But it's the same thing that's coming up here. If you let people do stuff without making an effort, you're doing them a disservice. If you give people some things too easily, you're giving them a disservice. If you let them in the door without making them walk up several steps, that's why temples often are on hills.

[60:10]

Now they have wheelchair accessibility, that's okay, because those people still have to go through a lot of trouble to get there. They push their wheelchair, and I push their wheelchair, and then they get to the thing that lifts them up the stairs. It's still a big hassle. They still really want to go up there. So that's okay. But for the people who can walk, They make the effort. They climb the stairs. You know, old people climb the stairs. And they get up there and then, you know, they said, this is important to me. Yeah, it is. And you've shown that. So I think you did very well to basically say, I'm doing important work. Let me do it. And if you get something important, then prove it for yourself and for me. And then I'll do this with you. But I'm not going to do stuff. There's no point in me doing unimportant things. Don't come and want to do unimportant things with me. If you don't want to do something important, go do something unimportant with somebody else.

[61:13]

But if you want to do something important for me, I'm here for you, which you are. So I think that was very nice that you did that, and now you can work with that person to create the honored space where you're both making an effort to take care of this important information. Thank you. Thank you for staying with me. Let's go. I apologize to you for interrupting you. Why did you interrupt me? I'm apologizing to Amy. Apologizing to you? In the kitchen. Enthusiasm. And my inappropriate playfulness is

[62:20]

I hope that you will read the note. I would really love it if you could read it aloud. If you feel uncomfortable doing that, if you would allow me to. Right now. Is it okay with everybody if she reads this note? What are you saying, Catherine? I saw her glasses. Do you need glasses? Actually, I wrote big enough that I bought them. Let me preface this with a little bit of backstory. When I helped prepare dinner the other night, Amy asked about a rice pilaf that she had made that hadn't cooked as completely as she would have liked it to in time for dinner.

[63:26]

Dear Amy, my enlightenment, in quotes, which is more of a theory which came to me on the cushion, has to do with the rice not cooking or absorbing the water the other night. I think it's related to the size of the pot in relation to the amount of rice inside it. With a relatively large pot, most of the water may dissipate and escape rather than being absorbed into the rice. I've noticed at home that the electric rice cooker given to me by a friend yields a relatively dry product, whereas the smaller pot that I used to use makes moister rice. The two differences besides wiring are the rice cooker is larger and it's aluminum, which may also be a factor.

[64:31]

If I remember right, the big pot that was used to cook the rice here was also aluminum. Gosh, Barbara. What comes to me in this experience, from this experience, is how limited my insight, my perspective, your insight, your perspective is in all situations, and how tiny my ego window into

[65:46]

reality is and how marvelously huge the whole picture is and how inconceivable. And how much fun it can be checking out the options. Could you move up there?

[67:03]

I'll ask your permission three times. First one, probably most of you know, but it's so good that if anybody doesn't know, it's worth one. What did the Zen student say to the hot dog vendor? Everybody. Yes, please. Make me one with everything. Two. Skeleton runs into a bar, goes up to the bartender and says, give me a pitcher of beer and a mop. Okay. Is Barbara here?

[68:42]

Oh, okay. I lost you in the glare. A pedophile is walking in the deep woods with a little girl. Now, it's a weird coincidence, but the man's name was Reb Anderton. And the girl's name was Barbara. Now, he's holding her hand. She has a little red and white Swiss dotted dress on. And he's carrying a satchel that rattles. And he has a pinstripe suit on. and they're going deeper and deeper into the woods and all of a sudden it gets very dark and the wind starts blowing i mean this is halloween season the skeleton attests wind starts blowing howling the leaves are blowing down the trees are whipping back and forth the little girl says i'm scared and the man says you're scared i have to walk out of here by myself

[69:54]

I want to thank, express gratitude to the people who have come to a Sashin for the first time. I know that at least two of you, is there more than two? Yeah, oh wonderful, wonderful. You may not have thought of it this way, but You come to a retreat like this because America is insane. And Pennsylvania and Ohio are insane. And now, you know, Japan is totally nuts. And California is crazy, too. And you have to deal with that on top of what you started out with. And it is a battle, it is a battle to sort it out.

[71:07]

And you have all of your friends to do it with you, but you find along the way that you're not sure what side they're on. If you go away from the battle and come back in 20 years, you will find that nobody answered these questions for you. If you came back in 100 years, you will find that still it's your own job to sort it out. with the help of your friends and with your friends trying to make you more confused than you started out to be. And so I'll offer my poem.

[72:14]

It's not the best one, but it's the one that I have now. And this is just not the Zen way, but I find in the last few years I've been getting more and more sentimental. So you'll have to excuse it and just say, bad Zen student. It's short anyway. Broken body. Broken mind. Broken heart. So far so good.

[73:25]

I just wanted to say this in response to Jim's ... I thought your poem was very touching, and I thought the first two little jokes were amusing, but the third one I really had a hard time with. I just didn't want it like the flown-on pie. I found it hard to take and not funny. And I also think that it was an insult to Rob. And you may not have meant it that way, and I wanted to say that so that it just doesn't sit there.

[75:04]

In the form of my comment, I just wanted to comment on what you said because I had a very similar reaction to the joke. And what I try to do instead of leaning into it, which is a normal reaction because any time there's jokes about sexual abuse, I know what the statistics are. I know in my life of the women I've dated, I'd say a full... half have had some sort of sexual abuse by usually a loved one or someone close to them. But I tried to not lean into it and think about the words, the name, all those things that you could attach to in the story and tried to use it as Zen practice and use it as Dharmagate. Even though my first reaction was similar to yours, I was just, I was shocked. Then I tried to work with that. I think if I've learned anything this week, it's to try to do that with everything. Wayne Dyer says that there are people, in fact, most people or a lot of people are actually walking around looking for opportunities to be offended by

[76:39]

And if you sort of test that out, you'll find that it's true. And we're also those people, which is really amazing to me. But what I wanted to say, I've had an opportunity to thank Reb last night during Dhaka Saan and also in my note that I sent him. But I wanted to share what I said with Reb with all of you because all of you helped in ways that you may never know unless I tell you and will continue on past this. I understand why Zen was so difficult for me for so many years, and Reb promised me when I leave after the retreat that it's going to go like that immediately, and maybe next time it'll go like that. So I'm looking forward to that. And also, in case you folks didn't notice, North Park Lounge, the bar, is within walking distance here.

[77:49]

It's on the way out if anyone needs to get a six-pack on the way back to Delusion. On the way back. But all kidding aside, what... I was trying to do for so many years was to have a personal Zen practice, which is impossible. When I went to Still Point or went to Zen Center, I would hear people speak or interact with people, and sometimes I'd feel tension. Or if I was doing one of the forms wrong, some of the senior students had been doing them much longer than me. I'm a very empathetic person, and I can feel how people feel about me. I choose to ignore it a lot, I think. I'm the only child in me, but it made me feel uncomfortable. I always hear people share stories about pain. I've heard these stories in this room here about pain and confusion. There's something that's on your heart that you just have to share it because it's going to eat you up otherwise.

[78:51]

And I tend to pull back from those situations, pull back from those people. And that just intensifies that sense of separation. But when each of you have shared your stories and shared your experiences, it allowed me to see each of you in a completely different light than I did when I walked into the retreat. which to me is absolutely amazing. It's not just knowing that everyone else is struggling with the same things I'm struggling with because I knew that already, but to see it instead of reading my 30 pages of notes and understanding what it all means, to sit there and have each person share, it was just so incredibly rich to me that what I wrote in the note to Rev was that No matter how small or bad my practice is, I don't think ever again it will be just my practice. So thank you, each and every one of you. I'd like to try something that my band instructor did years ago to see if this actually works as a way of promoting sound.

[80:32]

This morning... Ah, even better surface. This morning before sitting, I was reading a meal verse that ends with, now we set out the Buddha's bowls, may we, with all beings, realize the emptiness of the three wheels, giver, receiver, and gift. So, while I was sitting, I remember... I'm sorry. While I was sitting, I remembered when I broke a foot. I became very fond of saying that... Your foot was broken?

[81:40]

Why my foot was broken. Thank you. I was really fond of saying that gifts come with accidents and illnesses and that it helped me to learn to ask for help. And your story earlier... When I came up about the child thinking they're doing it all themselves, that came together with the three wheels that all along I've been receiving help from. First, I'd like to thank Brannigan for extending the group's apology to you.

[82:49]

It was very brave and something I didn't have the guts to do, and I really appreciate that. I would like to also extend the group's apology to Barbara for any offense that might have been felt, whether or not it was. Extremely sorry. Somebody from a magazine was interviewing Eda Roshi. And they said, does Zen have a way of dealing with pain? And he said, yes, we take it.

[83:53]

Do I have permission to change the subject? Good. But it is in a way of revisiting a previous subject. I'm still struggling a little bit with the interaction between Amy and Barbara and your response to it. And where I think I'm struggling with it is I appreciate the work of the Tenzo, the work of the person who cleans the toilet, the work of the person who's maintaining the house. And in this case, this is our house. But if I'm putting myself in Amy, and I'm thinking, so I'm at home, and I'm making dinner, and it's my Zazen, and it's my way of being fully present in my work. And my child runs in and says, you have to come, you have to come right now. There's this caterpillar outside I've never seen before. You have to come and see it. And my response is, put the caterpillar in a jar, and I'll decide if I want to look at it later.

[85:31]

Because right now, I'm working here. It doesn't feel right to me. And I was surprised that your response was, that was correct. Well, but your story about that is not my story. That's your story. So your story, I would agree, that wouldn't be correct, according to your story. If I'm Tenzo and I think that this is my job and I'm doing it by myself, then I really should give up my job for the child. That would be appropriate. But if I'm doing this job for you and you don't notice that, then I tell you that I'm doing this job for you. And if you really want me to stop doing it, ask three times. Because this is an important thing I'm doing here. And if what you're doing is important enough to ask me three times, I'll stop doing what I'm doing for you. And if I'm doing it for you, I'm asking you to ask three times for you.

[86:33]

Not for me. I don't need you to ask three times to prove I'm important. I just want you to know. that you're really asking something here. Because I'm working for you, and now you're asking me to stop working for you to do something. So if a mother's cooking dinner for herself, and a child comes, she's in trouble already before the child comes. But if the mother's cooking dinner for the child, and the child comes, then she has no problem stopping cooking for the child. Because she's cooking for the child. But still she might ask the child to be respectful of her mother and, for example, to say, this is really hot what I'm dealing with now. So if you really want me to do this, I'll do it later. Or ask me three times. So in this case, we're trying to make it clear that if the person really wanted her to stop her work, the person should realize that she's asking somebody to stop the work that the person is doing for them.

[87:38]

But if in your story, Amy was selfishly being Tenzo just for herself and becoming, you know, the big famous Tenzo and didn't want to interrupt her trip for somebody else, because I'm doing something important because I'm doing something for you. If you want me to stop doing something for you and do something else for you, fine. But please demonstrate that you understand what you're asking by asking three times. The Buddha's teaching all the time, happy to happy to teach, but the Buddha's not going to teach unless somebody says three times. But all they're doing is doing things for us. But they don't want us to miss the opportunity by not putting up energy into the request. That's what I was talking about. And I didn't feel like Amy was saying, I'm doing my thing over here, leave me alone. She didn't say that, what she was doing, and I wasn't accusing her of doing it.

[88:40]

And I'm not accusing you of accusing me. No, it's just the way I heard it. I'm doing my, you know, my Zazen. And a person had, this is the language, and a person had my... I wasn't accusing you, but now you're confessing that you did. Yes, I did. Oh, I wholeheartedly did. That's what I heard. Yeah, so I didn't hear that, and... I didn't hear that. I heard her wanting to the other person to realize that if this was important, then we should give it the proper space. And I'm not doing some important thing in the snack area, making my, in a way, I mean, I was, but I didn't think of it, this is a big important thing. I thought the person who was asking to receive the precepts was not honoring what they're asking to do. And also sometimes people say, I want the precepts. And I say, well, if you want the precepts, then I would suggest you request them.

[89:44]

And sometimes people just don't understand what I'm talking about. I said, I want the precepts. Well, I would suggest you request them. I want the precepts. That's not a request. That's a statement of your desire. In other words, they don't want to be vulnerable. So then I say, Finally they do it, and usually if you go through that much, then usually they're very moved. They're like, I want the precepts, I want the precepts. Maybe not like that, but I want the precepts, I want the precepts. And then when they finally say, may I have them, it's much more wholehearted. So that's what I thought I meant to be talking about, is that we shouldn't, Rob people from realizing how important something is by giving it before they demonstrate that they see how important it is. That's what I was talking about. And I thought that's what Amy was doing. That was my perception. And I encourage her to do that with all of us. Yeah, but I would agree with you. If a mother is cooking to be the mother cooking and this is my job and I don't want to hear anything from the kids, this is really sad.

[90:51]

But if the mother's really cooking for the children, and I'm cooking for these children, and the children want something, okay, I'll put this down and do this for the child. But that's her feeling. But she said, wait a minute. I want to teach my child that I'm doing something for them, and now if they want me to do that, if it's important, they should wait until I can put this down safely. And then teach them that this is important, and if this is important, then they should be willing to wait a little while. If it's not important, well, forget it. A lot of things are like that, you know. If you care enough... to do some important thing than to care enough, for example, to commit to it. But some people say they don't want to commit to certain things. And I say, well, if it's not important enough to commit to it, then don't do it. Don't do anything. Actually, if something's not, I would say basically, if something's not important enough to commit to it, forget it.

[91:56]

Thank you for expressing yourself. How do you feel? I feel lovely. Any more feedback for me? Any more feedback for me? Any more feedback that you want to give to me? No. Okay. So it's noon. Yes? Are we good? Huh? May I? Yeah, yeah. Is it getting a little too late? No, I think we have more time. Okay. Lunch is at the usual time. Well, just a comment. What I was thinking about the last interchange and what was going through my head as we discuss this issue of giving, giving, giving.

[93:05]

Well, one thing that really amazes me, having been your personal attendant a few times, is your capacity to give, give, give. And yet, At a certain point, you can't necessarily stop everything that you're doing. No one really can with people coming in and interrupting, things have to be prioritized at some point. I mean, we talked a lot. This was going through my head yesterday. We talked a lot about being wholehearted, being open, and giving. And yet, in my mind, I'm interpreting that to when somebody needs help, you help them. And yet, at a certain point, you have to just say, I can't do any more right now.

[94:12]

I can help you, but it's going to have to be later. Because I'm doing all of these things right now that I've committed to. You're telling me what you think? Yes. This is a story you're telling? It's a story. Oh yeah, it's a story for sure. Especially when I think... You're not leaning into the story, are you? Oh no. I've been thinking a lot about the first vow, paying homage to Buddhas, and what that really implies and what that means, and giving wholeheartedly. And I envision the... I do envision just trying to help. And so many people need help

[95:15]

But that's where the practice comes in, I guess. You can't help everybody simultaneously. That's your story? I'm trying to think through it and figure it out. And you're telling stories while you're doing that? Yes. And you're not leaning into that last one either? No. No, not too much. I'm trying to figure it out. Okay. But just checking is why you're trying to figure it out. Are you leaning into your figuring out? Just checking. Oh, yeah, I'm probably doing that. Okay, well, do you want to give that up, leaning into it? Yeah, I want to give it up right now. Great. So I have a different story. Want to hear? Yes, please. The story I have is you are helping everybody simultaneously.

[96:16]

That's my story. I don't want to lean into that one either, okay? But that's a story that I want to say more. And you, Mark, are helping everybody all the time. You're helping every moment. you're helping everybody simultaneously. And sometimes you actually want to help everybody simultaneously. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know if you do. I would like to help everybody simultaneously. And part of the reason why I want that is because I think it's true. And when I think that way, I feel less frightened of everybody. So that's the story I have, but I don't want to lean into that one either. And the practice, my understanding of practice, is practice is not about understanding that you're not helping people.

[97:18]

People already understand that. And practice is not about understanding that other people aren't helping you. People already understand that. In other words, they're understanding that their story is my story, is our story, is not everybody's helping me and I'm not helping everybody. Those are the stories which people are suffering from. So I'm telling another story which I will want to realize is that you are helping everybody simultaneously every moment. And I want you to practice and me to practice in such a way that we realize this. that we realize it, that we understand it, and we act like one would if one understood that. In other words, you act like a Buddha. And when you said somebody asked for help and you say, you know, later, I'll help you later, I'm saying that actually is helping the person right then. When you say, I'm tired, I want to take a nap, that helps people right then.

[98:27]

You're actually being generous when you say, I want to rest. You're being generous. But if you don't practice generosity when you say, I want to rest, if you don't practice generosity, you miss that you're generous. Sometimes other people think you're being generous when you think you're not. Sometimes they're enlightened, you're not. Sometimes other people think you're being generous when you think you are, and you're both enlightened. However, your stories about that are not really the reality. So maybe saying enlightened is going too far. I would just say that's right. When people think Mark's generous, which they sometimes do, they're right, he is. When he thinks he's not, he's wrong. He's still generous, though, with his wrongness. So when you think you're not being generous, when you think you're not helping people, even when you think you don't want to help people sometimes, maybe you sometimes think that, you're still being generous and you're still helping people.

[99:30]

But that's in Buddha's view. That's what Buddha thinks. Other unenlightened people may or may not get it. But sometimes I know from personal experience that people think you're being generous and you don't think so. I've seen that happen. Or, and not in your case, but it might happen to you sometime, I actually didn't actually see you Well, actually, I guess I did. When you say, that's too much, I can't do that, you maybe felt like, well, I'm saying I can't help now. I've got to do something else. I've got to take a break from helping people and do something else. I don't know what. But anyway, it's definitely called not helping people. And this helping people, I'm not up for. But I'm saying when you say that, even if you're lying, you're still helping people. Now, the best way would be is if you were in on it. Because then you'd be happy, too. But even when we lie, we still help people. It's just that we don't enjoy it when we're lying.

[100:34]

Even when we're rough, we still help people, but we don't enjoy it. The Buddhas enjoy it because they're gentle and honest and upright and harmonious and peaceful with everything. Then they understand that everybody is being generous and that Mark is always helping everybody simultaneously. This is what you haven't understood yet fully, right? I'm not juggling an infinite number of balls. You're not practicing juggling an infinite number of balls. You're not practicing that. So you don't understand that you're juggling an infinite number of balls. You are. You're juggling infinity. You're juggling the whole universe every moment. But if you don't practice with six or ten balls, you may not open to this. Actually, the teaching of Soto Zen is that you are juggling the whole universe. And everybody else is too. And the way you juggle the whole universe is you let the whole universe make you.

[101:40]

You do that. That's the kind of thing you are. That's the kind of thing everything is. Everything is the realization of the universe all over the place. Nobody better than anybody else. We're trying to practice in such a way to open to this. You're trying to practice in a way to open this. And part of the way you do it is to come up here and say, I don't see this as generosity. I think I got to say, no, I can't help you now. That's what I feel. That's my story. And I say to you, is that your story? And you say, yeah. Before I asked you, I don't know if you knew that was your story. Maybe you thought, this is reality. It's reality that I can't help people all the time. That's not reality. That's a story. And if you study that story carefully and don't lean into it, that story will part and you'll get to see what you want to see. namely that everybody's supporting you and you're supporting everybody else.

[102:44]

That's the meditation of the Buddhists. That's what they're focused on. I'm helping you, you're helping me. I'm wholeheartedly helping you, you're wholeheartedly helping me. I'm trying to practice in such a way as to open to that. Because that I haven't fully realized. I have somewhat realized, and even a little bit of realization is really uncomfortable, of the fact of the idea that I'm partly helping some people. I sort of understand that, and I don't want to understand any more of that than I do. I want to be more generous with this lack of understanding so it will part and reveal the Buddha lands, the Buddha view, which is that we are not helping some people some of the time. We're helping all of the people all the time. And not just some of the people are helping me some of the time. All the people are helping me all the time. And not just the people, but the cockroaches and the rats and the terrorists and the Republicans and the Democrats and George Bush and Dick Cheney.

[103:51]

They're all helping me all the time. And I confess I don't see it. I have a story that's not like that. So I want to be upright with that story so I don't fall into the pit of the story that Dick Cheney's not helping me and I don't want to help him. I don't want to live in that story for any longer than a flash of an appearance. So I want to practice that story. So that story parts, and I see that Dick Cheney's my grandson. My beloved, my beloved, darling grandson. Who's, you know, who's saying, I'm right all the time. I won, I won. You didn't, you lost, you're wrong. I won, I won. I want to treat that kind of thing with kindness. And if I do, I'm trying this out, okay? If I do, my proposal is to me and to you that the gates of liberation will open.

[104:53]

And you will see that Mark is always generous and everybody is generous with Mark. Mark's always helping people. Everybody's helping Mark. I was starting to connect the dots and I, well, sort of, without leaning into it. But, you know, I can really understand how George Bush and Dick Cheney are helping me. I can imagine it. But I can't visualize how I would be helping others by being selfish or unskillful. By showing them the bad example. Hmm. That's not good incentive for me to be a... I'm not trying to get... That's true.

[106:01]

You're not trying to make me good. No, I'm not trying to make you be selfish. I'm not trying to encourage you to be selfish. I'm just saying that you are helping people when you're selfish. And one of the ways you can help people is to show people what selfish people are like and how they suffer. I haven't seen any selfish people that benefit from being selfish. But they benefit me. That's what I'm saying about... Job security, right? Job security. Security in the job of practicing patience. Patience, patience, patience, selfish, patience, selfish, patience, selfish, patience, endless selfish people, endless opportunities to be patient with their suffering and with my pain and seeing it. Everybody's helping me, but it's not good for them, so that's why I don't want them to continue helping me that way. But you can help people by showing them that that's unhealthy.

[107:06]

I don't want to do that. You don't have to. I don't want you to. I don't want you to. But even though you don't want to, just in case you ever do, I just want you to know that you're helping me even then. There's no break in your helping me. When you're selfish and like whatever, you know, selfish. Selfish Mark is helping Reb. But Reb does not want Mark to be selfish. But if he ever, by any chance, ever was, for a flash of a second... Thanks, Mark. You helped me even then. And now you can move on and help me another way, if you like. Like being unselfish. You need your rope pulled in? I do as a matter of fact thank you so much my father was a beautiful intelligent gifted man who did not take care of his gifts and who suffered a lot and took a lot of medications to avoid it and he said to me one time wait till you grow up and you come home from work you're going to want to drink too

[108:16]

And yeah, but he was a very loving father, but he abused himself. I fortunately moved out of the house, or he actually left our house when I was 11, so he never abused me again. But his later marriages and so on were very unfortunate for him. My father showed me how not taking care of yourself, how not eating properly, how not getting exercise, and drinking and smoking. He showed me what that did. He gave me a great gift. He sacrificed himself for me. Not intentionally. I shouldn't say he did, not consciously, but intentionally. He did all these things and showed me that they're no good for him.

[109:20]

But they were good for me. They were good for me. They said, here's a guy who's got a great healthy body, and he gave me a nice body too, but if I don't take care of it, I'm going to be like him. So I kind of did take care of it. Still, he had heart problems, so I have heart problems. But, you know, they're not as bad for me. He was gone before he reached my age. So when somebody walks across the floor and falls on their face, it's not skillful, and we don't want them to do it anymore, but they show us that the floor is slippery. Thank you. Thank you for showing us. I'm sorry you got hurt. I really am, but thanks. Now we can be careful. Now we can be like, hey, floors are not necessarily unslippery. This might be dangerous. You showed me that. Thank you. And the person says, for what?

[110:23]

Oh, oh yeah. Oh, you're welcome. And I didn't say thank you to my father for showing that, but he kind of, he kind of knew He said, just before he died, he said, Rebbe, you never abused your body like I did. It's not true that I never did, but he said... And I didn't say, well, it's thanks to you. You're part of the reason why I have a healthy life. You know, I'm very... You gave me a lot. And fathers who take good care of themselves and force their kids to do the same sometimes don't help them. Because they set a bad example... but they don't necessarily show the kid how it doesn't work. But my father set an unskillful example, and he also kindly showed me the disaster that follows from that. So, you know, we're always helping for those who are there to see it.

[111:26]

And sometimes you're being generous and some people can see it and sometimes people can't. Sometimes you're being generous and you think you're not and other people agree with you. But the Buddha doesn't agree with that. The Buddha always thinks you're generous, always appreciates you, always respects you because the Buddha can see the reality that you are a gift, that the three wheels are empty. We're trying to learn this, right? But if we have any stories, including the ones of happy stories, we shouldn't lean into them. They're just stories. We should intensively study our stories, which means intensively study our karma. Take good care of our karma and we will see the insubstantiality of the show and our vision will be purified and we will see... the pure land right here where everybody's helping each other everybody's loving each other everybody's non-stop helping everybody simultaneously in this inconceivable way which we will not chant about in nude service so we're trying to learn to enter this samadhi about this

[112:54]

Wonderful, inconceivable, simultaneous mutual assistance among all beings, right? Really quick question. A quick something? Very quick. Yes. In the past, we've never taken photos during service or of people sitting around. If you prefer not to, that's fine. I prefer not to. Okay, fine. Thank you very much. Yes? I wanted to remind you about... Oh, yeah. Yeah. How many people would like to have silence during lunch? Raise your hands. Not too popular an idea. How many people would like to have conversation during lunch? How many people don't care? Okay, so I guess... You left out a category. What? You left out a category. Yeah, what was it?

[113:56]

Oh, could we maybe start lunch like they do at Green College where we have like 10 minutes of silence just to sort of appreciate the meeting? How many people want 10 minutes of silence at the beginning? Okay. You're going to ring the bell then? So we have 10 minutes of silence starting... from some point to some point. And at that second point, someone will ring a bell. Or someone may, if the bell isn't available, someone may shout. So we'll have five minutes of quiet, ten minutes of quiet, and then we'll have conversation from then on forever. our intention equally explained to every being and place.

[114:45]

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