Any more feedback? Very quick question. Would you tell us the ten bodhisattva vows again? I've forgotten four of them. The ten vows of Samantabhadra? Yes. First is to pay homage, honor, respect, and so on, to all Buddhas. Next is to praise all Buddhas. Next is to make offerings to all Buddhas. And next is to reveal and repent the shortcomings in your own practice. Next is to rejoice in the merits and virtues of others.

[01:04]

Sixth is to invite, beseech, request the Buddhas to teach. Next is to request the Buddhas to stay if they seem to be going to go away. Next is to practice all the practices that the Buddhas practice. Next is to constantly accommodate, you know, flow with and so on, all of the beings. Next is to turn over the merit of all these practices to the welfare of all beings. And, by the way, the offerings to Buddhas can be material offerings, and they also can be Dharma offerings.

[02:11]

Dharma offerings are the most important. And so Dharma offerings are all our various bodhisattva practices. For example, the offering of serving sentient beings is an offering, that practice is an offering to Buddha. The offering of taking the suffering of others on yourself, opening to the suffering of others, is an offering to Buddha. the practicing all bodhisattva deeds, the practice of embracing and sustaining all beings, the practice of never turning away from the bodhisattva deeds. There's one more.

[03:14]

Those practices, when you do them, you also make them offerings to the Buddhas. You can make those gifts to other people, but this is talking about gifts to Buddhas. As you can see, they are gifts to other people because you're doing them with other people, so you're already doing them. I think if you contact Katherine, she can tell you how you can get this 10 with the commentary online, I think, right? There's an electronic version of this with those 10, but a paragraph after each one going into some detail. Any other feedback you'd like to offer? Yes? Are we coming up? Yes, please, come up.

[04:15]

I wasn't sure. I'll film. I'll just... Um... Okay. I just... You asked... Talk to the student. Oh, yeah, right. Lord. laughter laughter Is that so? I like that. Did you see that movie, Meet the Parents? Was that it? Was that it there? You know, where the first word, the baby? That's your story? Yeah. Yeah. The baby says, I love school. But it's, anyway, that's it. Not really what I came up to share. I just wanted to offer you some feedback. I wanted to thank you very, very much for your gracious accommodation of my delusion and for showing me with anger and for giving me the opportunity to learn through coordinating

[05:30]

But then being so generous to say, you know, why don't you pass the baton to me when the retreat starts so that you can just... Do the best you can to relax and enjoy the ride. So anyway, that was still a kind of a juggling act for me, letting go and trying to not be a coordinator and such. But your support was really deeply felt, and I appreciate it, as well as everybody else who was trying to avoid asking me questions. So that's cool. So those are two positive. Because I think when you offer feedback to someone, if you're going to offer them feedback that's going to be potentially helpful to them but might be difficult for them to hear, then it's always good to lead with a couple of positive things. And then you follow up with one where they might learn something. is because almost immediately after the silence was broken, someone criticized me for something that they thought I had done wrong in coordinating the retreat, and it really hurt. And so I said to the person after I regrouped, listen, you know, can I offer you some feedback about what happened?

[06:37]

By the way, you know, you might want to offer a couple. And I'm asking, I'm saying this now at the group level because we're now going to talk to each other, and I can't take much more of that. So if you would be so kind, I mean, I'm happy to learn and try to help facilitate Green Mountains Walking and whoever does this job. But if you could be so kind as to remember that sometimes it can be helpful, it can be harmful. And so feedback means, you know, sort of skillfully done is like sort of be, you know, you did a good job and next time we might want to try this. And so the demonstration of that would be to say to you that I saw you do something unskillful. Wow, he's not perfect after all. That's cool. It was this little, and it was about three days ago. But anyway, that was it. That was my only thing, really mostly just painting. I also wanted to give you this little gift.

[07:41]

This was one of the registration forms that came in. It's got a little bubble out of its mouth that says, Got Buddha? That should be next year's publicity poster. I don't care if I go up and say something about... Go up, yeah. I don't... I practiced with a Tibetan Buddhist group, and in putting on events, I pushed myself way too hard and ended up in the hospital.

[08:45]

And after I left the group, they finally managed to get a temple. And I know I helped, but I wasn't there when they got there. And it's a renovated barn. And every time I see it, I want to paint a big cow meditating on the side and put Gap Buddha. That's all I wanted to say. I have more of a sartorial question. When I first started coming to these retreats, you were always in birth towns, you know. And then I... On the internet, it's sort of like this blue-gray thing, and then you wore it here last year. It was June, when we visited U.K.

[09:48]

anyway. And now you seem to be wearing it a lot more, the blue-gray motif. And I noticed that one time you had on a purple rocket suit. Really gorgeous. So I was wondering, I mean, does this have to do with, like, what you feel like in the morning? That's what I get in the morning, ooh, I want to wear. Or is there, like, some symbolism behind these colors that, you know, sometimes you have on your phone, sometimes you have on? There's no, what do you call it? There's some symbolism. It's not like, you know, written down in a book or something, you're supposed to follow it according to certain circumstances. Is there anything about the symbolism you could tell us? Like the blue one? It's so beautiful. Yeah, I wear the blue. I don't want to tell you blue. Can we have a song? Blue indigo. Blue, blue, blue.

[10:50]

Kathy looks at her watch. Just a coincidence. I looked at my watch because I thought there might be someone who might want to ask the group and Rep about how to continue the practice of bringing Rep to Cleveland. Rep's going to have to leave before long, so I looked at my watch. I wanted to know how much longer there was for that question to be asked. Thank you. I'll ask you. I was wondering if Jean could come back up and explain what is involved or what has been involved in coordinating this retreat. Am I the right person to answer this question? No, you're not the right person, but you're a person.

[11:56]

Yeah, I was going to say there are been doing this for like eight years or something like that? Catherine, didn't you invite? This is the seventh year, so it's really been going on for a while. Amy's organized it, and Mark's organized it. Yeah. You don't think you have, Mark? Yeah, right? I don't remember it. You don't think you've organized it? I thought you did organize it. Last year. This one. We could all answer this question. Yeah, that would be good. We've all organized. Yeah. Anybody else want to come up? I have, but they can't speak. You can come up, too. I don't really need to. Okay. We'll be there. I could sit on the floor, because all the chairs are taken. Oh, here. Oh, we can make that. Thank you. Come on up. Anybody else want to answer any questions? Some other people have, but they're not here.

[12:57]

Of course, many people have helped, but these are primary organizers. Do you have any questions? To talk about, to try to describe what it entails? Right. If somebody, say, were, well, like you came up the other day, who would carry on next year. So I'm imagining that there would be one person who would help the ball rolling. And I'm imagining that was you this year? In February, yes. In February, I co-coordinated the retreat with a woman. So she and I shared the roles. And this time, Ranigan did the stealth slide into that sort of Linda role. So I was sorry that Ranigan hadn't been thanked earlier. She should be because she received all the registrations and sort of collected the checks for me and so forth.

[13:59]

I served as a point of contact for Green Gulch for REB, and Catherine was communicating back. And we were picking dates, picking place. REB was suggesting topic. We were commenting on topic. We were, you know, creating. I was creating the flyer. They were looking at that for approval. I was creating. You know, so there was this dialogue for about four months, I would say, in coming up with what we were going to do here. And then there's the email list and the mailing list that information gets disseminated from. So that was something that I managed. And then the ongoing kind of communication that happens once people start to register. So that was the place where, because I was going to be out of the country for about four weeks, I asked Rannigan if she would receive the checks so that if anyone had inquiries or whatever, there would be someone here in the States to be able to answer those questions. And then, so that's when you started to see emails coming from her. And then she and I sort of

[15:04]

We just worked very, very closely together for the last month. And so when we got to the retreat, it was interesting, you said you handed your role off to Rayann again, which I guess means that the coordinator would typically be there at sign-in. She had received all the checks and everybody's name and everything. She came early with the loan and did the check-in. Lynn helped me, too. Oh, yeah, and Lynn, you were helpful. Yeah, she was very helpful. This is where you start to think and never know where to stop. Everybody helped. But anyway, I would say that really the biggest job is the quality of receiving the treating queries and then getting back to people in a timely and prompt fashion. Catherine is exceptionally skilled at this and has an incredible amount of experience. And so if you haven't done it before, she's just a really wonderful person to work with because she knows pretty much everything. She was really helpful.

[16:06]

Don't pay any attention to Catherine anymore. Anyway, I don't know. And then, you know, obviously, Reb has ideas. And I guess that's it. Thank you. I'm not sure about it. There was some confusion in February that like there's this body that invites a teacher and that the body, because I saw some emails and things from previous where everybody in the body would send around these notes about what they wanted to be taught about and then they would tour out. But then in other cases I saw that like in this case I just sort of said what are you going to teach? I don't really know what your preference is. I think it's pretty, like this seems fairly loose to me because it's a virtual sauna. Everybody's sort of all over and comes. I don't think there's, there's certainly not into retreat planning efforts that I've made a way to do that. Other than the whole heart of work.

[17:09]

I'd just like to say there's another aspect that the retreat coordinator has done, which maybe should be broken up into a different job, which is the job once they get here of being allowed to step back from, of fielding lots and lots and lots of questions and criticisms. This is not unique to this situation. This happened to other coordinators in other retreats too. So it's kind of a taxing job. That one that takes place here during the retreat takes a lot of skill. just the other things putting the place and I think that's kind of a hard thing and what we've been through we still have a couple dates penciled in here for next year which I can't remember which ones are left penciled in I don't know if anyone in Pittsburgh wants to do it, and I don't know how feasible it is for someone from Cleveland to do it here in Pittsburgh. Well, we've done that twice now. I mean, we have done it twice, as long as there's someone from Pittsburgh that's able to, you know, run over here and so forth.

[18:17]

Because both Linda and I are from Cleveland. In this one, we're both, you know, sort of coordinated by people that work from out of town, thanks to Amy's, you know, But I don't know how much somebody has to really be here. Can I ask a question? Are we assuming then that RAD is coming back to Pittsburgh next year, or is RAD going to Cleveland? We've had some initial discussions about that, and there are people in Cleveland who would love to have them come to the Cleveland area. We had talked about a three-day, two-and-a-half-day retreat at the National RAD. facility okay so um we talked about those and ref said that if we could find dates that he would be open to a hat and then Catherine had it I think I I don't want to speak for you but I apologize if I misrepresent again but anyway I I think we had talked about trying to get some kind of a regular thing retreat going in Pittsburgh so that like we just sort of knew and you can have a plan

[19:25]

Amy and I had some conversation when I was here in June and trying to think of what months seemed to be the most compatible for people in the area for a longer retreat and also knowing kind of how and we thought April or May, April or early May would be the best time. But in order to get this facility, we couldn't get April until the following year. And also, since we've just done a five-day in October, there was a question of whether we'd want to do another five-day. Some of us might, but on the whole, whether we could do another one within six months. So we had the thought that it would make sense to kind of make a transition. in the next year so that we can start after that having a regular flat day, if possible, in the spring at this place. The conversation we had in June, and it was just the conversation. That was the idea at that time. And actually, I should say that I'm going to step back from the coordinator's role now and sort of rest and offer that work opportunity up to someone who really, it's really a wonderful experience.

[20:39]

And there have not been any decisions made, and there are no contracts signed. So, you know, right now it's really, like, wide open in terms of what happens next. Is there a board? board of directors please let me speak to that up until this year this retreat initially was sponsored by still point for a number of years and then a group formed in ohio called the northeast ohio zen soto sanga that was specifically formed from students from this retreat who wanted to be students of red and then the two groups collaborated on sponsoring And a couple of them were in the Cleveland area, or in Cleveland itself, and then in Cuyahoga, at Cuyahoga, which is in the Cleveland area. And then last year, the retreat was organized primarily by Mark and Amy, who were not affiliated with either Sangha, and with a lot of discussion from people. just from the retreat.

[21:42]

And after the retreat, Amy and Mark and I and Rev had a conversation in which we decided to experiment with not having the sanghas be the organizers. So we experimented with having an independent thing, which is simply a bank account. It doesn't have a board. And the idea of it, as I recollect, and others who were in the conversation can correct me, is that Because this, I think if we counted up the sanghas that were at this retreat, represented at this retreat, there are probably 10 or 12 sanghas at this retreat. I mean, I'd like to acknowledge that and at some moment kind of notice who they were. But there were a vast number of sanghas at this retreat. And so that was kind of the idea, was to take it out of the sense of being one sangha or two sanghas retreat. And I think that should be revisited and we should examine whether Because I also started to feel that maybe some of the reason Jean was feeling like at some points that maybe she was doing it by herself was because she was in a way.

[22:51]

I mean, not really, of course, but she didn't have the ground of a sangha, really. She had people who would help, many people who would help. it would be a good idea to return to have it be a Sangha-based thing. But it was helpful to have an independent bank account so that it's not kind of tied up in the boards and issues that are local to the Sanghas. So that was a definite, there was also a lot of stuff going on at Stillpoint at that point. But if it were, it might be possible to coordinate it with the Sanghas more aggressively without sacrificing the independence of the bank account. in the outside scene the first time, it just sounds like way too big a job for one person. I heard like five jobs in there. I mean, one job we need next time is ombudsperson. The problem is we talk to this person, and that can be somebody who has the gift. It doesn't have to be the coordinator. It shouldn't be the coordinator. It has less invested in, emotionally invested in. But I would think if we could define several roles, and even thinking about answering a question about one role, about any of us now are probably

[24:00]

There could be a list of people that you can contact this person to answer questions, so you don't have to take it on yourself. I think it's just defining what the scope of the roles are, putting people in those roles. When I said a board, maybe you're talking about some people that will step up and take those roles. Because the way it's described right now, What does that mean, standing with both your hands? So I don't accidentally raise and volunteer to take on the whole thing. Like the option to actually... By accident. I'm going to be happy to discuss with anyone about how to sort of set that up. I want to mention, too, I think part of the thing that makes it hard is when everybody registers at the last minute. That's like, what more do I want to put into this if it's not even going to happen? Yes. So you kind of wait. That's just the way I am. But that's just the way it happens.

[25:03]

But it never has not happened. Well, it's always that way. That's the way it is. But when I organized with Theresa Shah, as I have for years now, I mean, it's nowhere near as hard as it is for you guys, really. There's less uncertainty. I appreciate that difference. But one thing I know, I have people giving me checks at the retreat. I mean, that's how... People, I don't know what it is about people who practice that. They have to think about money. It's like 30 or something. Oh, I don't think about these things, you know. No, things don't happen without it. You know, it's... At some level, you have to sort of give yourself up to some faith, you know, and it never does not happen, you know, at least in my experience. And, you know, you can decide to sit there and sweat it, you know, and you do. But, you know, it's a good practice. You know, and usually it comes true.

[26:04]

It's kind of fabulous, actually. Can I answer that? Just so that you all know, so that you can understand the depth of this problem. When the deadline came, we had 13 people registered with checks in hand, 13. It's not going to happen. Then Rob was gracious enough to extend the deadline. I sent out another little, hey, what do you guys think? Anybody out there? Like I got about six emails going, oh, yeah, yeah, thanks for the reminder. I maybe got two checks. You know, you can say, we're in the email of seven of you who received it where I got a little testy. I'm like, we'd like to all cooperate here because this is really, I mean, I'd like to either put this aside and let us all go on. So, you know, that is a big, that's a big courtesy to the group to register. Especially, I mean, I'm committed to have to be here.

[27:05]

So I'm like saving my weekend. Nobody's going to come. It's important. I just want to say that that email that you sent out was like one of the most skillful things I've ever seen. I got this email that said, this number of people by this date, and I made a phone call. You already had my check. Yeah, this is true. But it was totally clear. Thank you. I spent a couple years at Christian Church between my falling off the cushion. At this point in the discussion, there would be somebody standing up with a hat. People would be writing checks to say, we're going to do this next year. And, I mean, short of that, I mean, to me, I don't know if it's a number of, you know, if there were only 13 people, is it because we financially can't afford to have it or it's a retreat? Hi. I have a hard time leaving Green Gulch, actually.

[28:09]

I don't like to leave. And people there don't like me to leave. But, you know, if I feel like there's really a request to go to Strong Pole, but to leave a large community, to go across the country in an airplane and be away from them, and go through all that for 13 people, I just don't feel up to it. But the number does make a difference to me. So, yeah. And if it's 13, and, you know, 13 doesn't mean 13 will come either. As you see, we had quite a few people leaving this time. And some people canceled at the last minute. So it's about... And again, it's just, you know, the number makes a difference in terms of, you know, where are the people who want me to be where and when.

[29:13]

Plus, even if, yeah, and also where I am is where I am rather than where I have to go to. So that is a consideration. And so I thought maybe, you know, and I was, you know, the deadline is like when you buy the airplane ticket. Yeah. So, you know, I don't feel like buying an airplane ticket when I'm not sure how many people are going to come. I shouldn't say that. When it looks like there's not 13. So that's a factor. Were there people that couldn't come because of financial reasons? No. No. I know that you said earlier that you don't like to give, like, just one-off lectures, but I was, like, one-off lectures that you prefer to have, well, where you only have one lecture rather than have an intimate, like, three- or four-day retreat where you get, you know, people getting close and you can do the interactive thing. Well, here's my suggestion. You mean come to some place and do five evening talks?

[30:16]

Well, here's a suggestion that came up, I think, when we were juggling around what to do at that time for the 2006 retreat, to do like a three-day weekend, maybe non-residential retreat in Cleveland, give you a day off on Monday, Tuesday drive you down to Akron for an evening talk there, Wednesday Yellow Springs where we could get Columbus. All those people that go to Yellow Springs, they'd love to meet you down there, give you a day off on Thursday and Friday, come to Pittsburgh for a three-day weekend there, and then alternate that schedule. I mean, you'd reach 200, 300 people that way, and you'd alternate that schedule with the five-day retreats here at Currents because this really is a superior facility. What you just said is a lot of work, but also I don't know that people are going to show up for these events you said they're going to show up for. So if I haven't been invited, I generally accept.

[31:22]

So I went to Florida last year for the first time. I've never been to Florida. They invite me. Okay, let's go to Florida. So I went there, and things went well, so I'm going back again. But I'll go anyplace once. But if I go someplace and nobody shows up to speak out, ...to come again, I just sort of, bye. I say thank you, but there wasn't sufficient interest for me to make the trip again. So, for example, one of our friends, Jenny, organized a retreat in Kentucky a few years ago. And Jenny's a wonderful person and was in a lovely place, but there were very few people. And, but it, you know, took me, it's almost, you know, it was just a weekend thing, but it took me a day before and a day after. So it's, and then I'm going across the country and, you know, it's, so I said, yeah, she said, do you want to do it again? And I said, no, thanks. If Jenny, you know, needed me, I might go across the country for her if she really needed me, but if it's a retreat...

[32:37]

I was just thinking about a way to make that long trip more worthwhile. But you threw out some numbers there, and I don't know those numbers that are going to be there that you say are going to be there. I'm not making any guarantee. You said 200 or 300 people. I'm figuring 50 in each. They won't necessarily come. Last year at the friend's house, it was full. This week, it was mostly you guys. So probably I wouldn't do it next year. Unless somebody had some reason to tell me, well, there's some point to do it. Can I go next to that place? Just for a second, because I did want to mention that we had advertised, marked the advertising point of late. which puts us on the schedule in this big publication in the area, and we chose not to do that this time. And I think that had a really pretty big impact on the word getting out of town.

[33:41]

So I think that was our trial and error, and I think we saw that. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. But I'm just saying I might try it one more time with advertising, because I really think that was useful. Yeah, if we get enough advertising, probably. A lot of people would come to see almost anybody. Even red. It must be, most people, because look at all the people. How about them teaching a bunch of students? Come see the Zen teachers. In person. Leave it to see. On the road? Before you go to, do you still want to step up like you said you did?

[34:46]

I do, but I'm still confused. I'm not clear that there is a retreat occurring next year. But I don't know in what city. Is that always open? I couldn't certainly speak for Stillpoint, nor would I, but I could say that I'd be willing to generate a conversation about having it in Pittsburgh and where I would put my hand into that planning. But I was, I guess, curious to know if there had been any thought about what city it was going to be in. Well, like I said, the only conversation, I was encouraging Gene and Hannigan to think about next year because I know that our schedule is getting closed. Usually we have this conversation at the end of the retreat, but the retreat's been in June or July. So on my encouragement, they examined what was available at Cuyahoga.

[35:48]

And also on the encouragement of Amy and me both feeling that it would be good to go to Cleveland, and they certainly feel that Cleveland people would like it to be in Cleveland. It hasn't been for a couple of years. And then these various dates surface at Cuyahoga. Meanwhile, we do know some current states, but there's one in early October and one in the summer, I think, in July maybe. There are potentials, but it's up to Robin and this group. But then I think there's no one to make this decision but us. Do we want to have one or two short retreats in Cleveland and then skip a year for the five-day retreat and then take it up again in the following year at Pittsburgh? See if something could work out next year for five days, whether in Cleveland or Pittsburgh. And that often depends on where we can find the space. Because one year we skipped Cleveland just because we couldn't find the space in Cleveland, and we could find it in Pittsburgh.

[36:53]

Well, we found the space in Cleveland, but they wanted a large deposit. Was that what it was? Which we didn't have in hand, which hopefully... walking checking account will help avoid that kind of stress. Well, I don't know what the net is, but again, that deposit would be forfeited if the retreat did not, which was we were on the verge of this time, and it turned out the deposit was graciously very small. That's why we ended up in Pittsburgh in 2006, because it was actually a Northeast Ohio Senate retreat. But, you know, we felt we couldn't be sure. And if we put up our own money, which we could have done, we all would have been out that money, and some of the people in the group weren't able to be out that money. So even those of us that could have afforded to risk that money didn't feel that we could do that. And so Franciscan Spirit in line. And I want to thank Stillpoint, too, because I know my practice has been greatly enriched by all these rub retreats that they started to begin with and also the fact they lend all their Zafus and Sabatons and, you know, Jendo materials.

[37:55]

So they are critical to my practice. But, yeah, that's it. A different place. One caution I would have about the Cuyahoga Valley Center, it's a gorgeous place, wonderful walks and a great place to have the zendo, but we had innumerable arguments because the living accommodations are dormitory style. Innumerable conflict. I don't know if you remember, but Jennifer took quite a beating. She was coordinator that time, and it was really painful because you can imagine with... ten people sleeping in the same room and five of them wanted the window open and five of them wanted the window closed. What I've noticed from coming to the retreats these years, I think I've been to five of these now, is that you get so vulnerable and so raw, you know, when you're, you know, trying to do this, I just raced back to my room at 9 o'clock and closed the door. And, you know, the fact that I can open the window that I want to lay down on the floor, my legs up on the wall, and nobody's walking over me.

[39:05]

I mean, I always liked Franciscan Spirit and Life for that little bit of privacy that I needed at the end of the day in order to, you know, because, you know, your nervous system is jumping around. We did find that Jesuit retreat center in Parma, which I think would They don't allow you to cook. But, you know, you have to buy your meals. Personally, I think a simplified meal thing, I mean, doesn't have to be. Maybe this is more detailed. Yeah, I was going to say. But if there's an Ohio person that can work with it, that's all we wanted to say, is that I would be very supportive. ran to Pittsburgh, and I'd be very supportive of attending in Cleveland, or wherever it may be, and any help I can offer to that end, I'd be grateful. Thank you. And I need to go. Bye. I wonder if we could identify the people who will actually put energy into making the retreat happen so that this meeting does not continue forever.

[40:17]

Because it can't. There's one. Look at that. We've got two people. Jody said she would work on a Pittsburgh retreat and would support an Ohio retreat. I thought they had a plan, too. Volunteering for what? I'm happy to have them, too. And even in Cleveland, for that matter. Recorded. What was your name again? Or the recording. Well, what about you guys? Randigan's already gone, so you are you guys now. Randigan and I have talked about it, and we're still rebuilding, you know, all those people moving to California. To be with Randigan. And I've still to run back today, and I think I'll be going to Green Gulch for my week's vacation. But certainly if there was a weekend retreat, I would definitely, you know, do anything that I could do to support it. But I would get a ship up there.

[41:24]

Anybody else from Ohio? Well, not Ohio. But I would do anything to get right back here. Anything that Rosie said was something. Rose definitely supports. Yeah, that's about right. The only thing I want. She's always giving me the what would Rip do thing. The one thing I want to do, Mark, is talk to Sister Damien. I beg your pardon? The one thing I want to do is talk to Sister Damien. We're not doing that. Is that burning bush? Burning bush. Sister Damien was a piece of work. I missed that one. I'll talk to you. Sister Damien was... I'm not afraid of her. No, no. I'll talk to her. It's all right. We're coordinating our trip together.

[42:25]

Mark, and Hal, and Jodi... Can I interject just a little bit? The big support thing would be great, but I think what was during the 2006 retreat was handling the interfaces of so many people being involved. I love people who are supportive, and that's great. But to tell you the truth, the time and energy that I was involved in was managing the interfaces. That was the really hard part. And if it's just a very small, cohesive cooperative, Yes, yes. It's a lot like that. It's a lot like that. To get things set up, and then as you get closer to the retreat, sure, I mean, getting help for various roles and that sort of thing.

[43:34]

But having the big committee thing to do the planning implies that you're getting consensus on things. Really, I mean, it's set up that way, and so you feel that you need consensus, and that's the very difficult, time-consuming thing, because one person can disrupt that process. So several people offered, but you're suggesting that they wouldn't necessarily all be involved from the beginning. Well, I'm just saying that that's something that I experienced, and I wouldn't want to be involved in that. I don't think I'd have the – or, I mean, unless you had the balls to juggle, I mean, I'd do the best I could. But I just don't think it was the easiest way to go. Yeah, all right. Okay. It sounds like you have five or six people who are willing to help make this happen.

[44:36]

I'm sure it'll be easy to turn that into three people. I'm sure that some of them will be willing to step back as long as they know it's going to happen. Well, they won't know it's going to happen, but they can step back and then step forward when they're called upon. Right, yeah. And just to assure you that if it's decided to hold it in Cleveland, certainly Rannigan and I, and there were several people from the original founding of the Sun, that And Eric will be, you know, will be like Amy was, you know, here in Cleveland. You were here in Pittsburgh for Jean. We'd be there if the coordinator turned out to be. But I do think this is terribly challenging. To me, when we were doing it, and it was Stillpoint and Northeast Ohio, and we were sharing that, I had... My life in those organizing meetings where we were face to face. I find the whole email thing in a large group, Mark is right, it just is very, very difficult if it's going to be a virtual collaboration effort. But, you know, we would have meetings of like eight people in the first two retreats that we organized.

[45:39]

But it's really hard to do that by email, I think, you know. Excuse me, I need to go for a minute. One thing I'd like to ask is, and we could ask by email, but the people in Cleveland, would they feel good about having another retreat in Pittsburgh? That's my question, the people in Cleveland. Well, we will come. Because it seemed like, you know, there may be some idea that you should take turns, right? Well, we would just like to offer you in Cleveland as well, but we are all, I mean, I think we're all willing to come back. Really? Yeah. Yeah. He's the one that has to get there. I'm picking, I'm meeting someone. Oh, you're not catching a flight.

[46:42]

Oh, okay. Oh, oh. So you can breeze yourself? We should go virtually. Or thereabouts. Depending on traffic, it's going to be... That's probably a good time to go. Thank you so much for taking him so I could take that off and I had to do it. I appreciate it. And then you have five to six people you can count on for that. We had one last year, we had one physical. And Amy helped, and Manny helped, but it really was one person. Dr. Landis stepped up. Yeah. Yes. I think the one could... You were the point person, so to speak. Can I just say, I think the thing that needs to come out before anything happens is you need one person to say, no matter when it is, I'll take care of it.

[47:52]

If you're going to, well, as long as it's in May, I'll be the organizer. If it's in October in Cleveland, I can do it. If it's in April, you know, it needs to be someone who just says, that's what I'm doing next year. So I feel like I can't say that this year. I don't know. If we all committed to coming back next year, no matter what, then it makes the organizer's job much easier. It does. Utopia. People cannot just do that without knowing. It makes it hard for everybody to say. It's all the intention. You can express an intention. If there is someone who would like to have that role of coordinator at any time. that I would certainly be willing to do that to get Brett back here. That was it. We got one. Not November, because I have to know how it was organized.

[48:55]

That's actually with you, Brett. Got to volunteer. We got to get him back. Right here, right there. So there it is. Mark, do you know that you just volunteered to be it? Oh, I'm totally willing. There you go. And I'll personally meet with you rather than email. No, thanks. If that's helpful. And I can set a lot of bad examples for you, too. That would be very, very helpful. Sure. Well, I'm just glad you're coming back. Thank you, Mark, for offering to make this great effort for all our welfare. Would we have five minutes to take a little group photo?

[49:58]

I know we're half the group. Oh, jeez. You don't mind? I'd rather not. Okay. With not the group. Okay. I think if you take pictures at the beginning, you'll find more enthusiasm from me. So we should take them the first day? First day. Also, if you want to take pictures of the event, taking pictures at the end, I think, is more difficult for me, in a way, because people are more initiated. Somehow we've always managed to catch a few right at the end. You can catch a few right now. That's why I thought maybe I could show up there, but no. If you want a picture of the whole group then I would suggest doing it earlier in the retreat rather than the last service. Schedule the whole thing. How about a before and after? Who made it? Who made it? Thirty people and then a couple of people falling down.

[50:59]

See what happens when you practice that? You should see what happens to the other people. While we're doing this, can I chant the song? I'm really into it. Oh, let's do that. I'll chant the song. Is that all right? Okay. So there's, from Cleveland, there's Neo. [...] And that's in Cleveland? Is there anybody else from Cleveland who practices with another sangha in Cleveland? Was there any such person here? I'll practice with the Zen Center. In Pittsburgh. I'm coming to Cleveland. Then in Pittsburgh, there's Stillpoint, and there's Zen Center of Pittsburgh, and there was Laughing Rivers. Oh. And Sherry Huber. Oh. And was there anybody else? Any others? Aren't you from Zen Center of Pittsburgh? And from Stillpoint, and from the Zen Group of Pittsburgh. Oh, okay.

[52:01]

And the Zen Center of Los Angeles and Zen Center of San Francisco. Okay. I consider myself part of all of those. All right. And then we have Deborah. Practice with everyone. And Deborah practices with everyone. And Mark practices with a sitting group in State College. I guess I'm still point ex officio. Wait, yes. I'm sure that's possible. And with Diane Benage? And with your sitting group in... Well, that is the sitting group. That's Diane Benage. And Shoto is from... San Shinji. San Shinji. With Shahab. And what about Luca? Yeah, San Shinji. San Shinji. And Zen Mountain. And Zen Mountain. And the Technohagra. Wait, didn't we count that? Yeah, we did. Columbus. That's a lot of cushions to fall on. Anyway, I just wanted to know. Could I maybe at least get the coordinators of this year's retreat in front of the altar with Breb?

[53:06]

Oh, look at that. We don't even know who they are. Breb is leaving. John, John, John. Okay.

[53:11]

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