A while ago I mentioned to you that an ancient teacher said that the mountains and rivers and great earth are born at the same moment as each person. and further that all the Buddhas are practicing together with each person. How's the hearing going, Fred? Someone gave me feedback that sometimes when I seem to be making some kind of off-the-cuff comment, which may turn out to be funny, I change the tone of my voice or turn to the side and then it's hard to hear.

[01:24]

So please help me speak in such a way that works for you. How's it going so far? It may not appear that the mountains and rivers and great earth are born together at the same moment as you. But these words have been caused to arise. Again, Buddhas don't really have words, but they speak. And then their words are imagined. And these are the words that have been imagined So now we have then to listen to it.

[02:30]

And it is what I'm saying to you now. Does it seem to be a response to a request you made? Do you hear what I'm saying to you as a response to you? Or is it just, you know, you're here and I happen to be saying this, but you didn't ask for it? It feels like a response. In your case, you feel like I'm responding to a request that you made? Yes. I can perceive that, too, that I'm offering a response to a request that you made. But there might be some times when I might offer you something which I, yeah, and then other times I might feel like I'm responding to a request you made, but I don't think you know you made it.

[03:42]

I don't think you know you asked for it, but I think you asked for it. As in the expression, you asked for it. Did you get that one? Now I'm feeling like everything's really nuanced, that it's coming in lots of different levels at once. And even though we don't pick up on them all, it's still going on. And so the optimistic or the enthusiastic spirit says, I want to enter and realize the realm that embraces all the different levels, some of which are impossible to know.

[04:47]

So I again propose to you that the reality of freedom is impossible to know but it's not impossible to enter and live and realize. It's just, again, the proposal that the realm of unhindered freedom is not an object of recognition. And you can recognize it, but that's not the freedom itself. It's impossible to recognize it. It's not a recognizable thing. It's a living thing that we can't get outside of, fortunately. We can just be alienated by our imagination. Maybe later I'll try to

[05:53]

give you some discussion, to encourage you to understand these amazing teachings that all Buddhas are practicing together with each of us, and that we are born at the same moment as the mountains and the rivers. Before I perhaps do, do you have anything to offer or any feedback for me so far? First, I'd like to thank you for the offering of your important new book, James, which I've read and gotten a lot out of. And so that book together with something you said today I'd like to get some feedback on.

[06:57]

It's a very personal practice to me that I've been doing a lot with consistency lately, seriously lately. And it has to do with, you said, you were paraphrasing Nietzsche and you said words that, something we already have words for is dead in our hearts. Well, I got that utterly. I mean, like, to me it seems like my thoughts are desiccated, dead, no life. I mean, I've thought them for so many years, and they've just really, I'm tired of them. Your thoughts aren't dead. Your thoughts are living pain. Okay. It's that what you're thinking of is dead. It's gone. Yeah. And that's why your thoughts are painful. Okay, all right. The thoughts, though, are literally like bugging you. You're like, they're tiring you out. They're tiring me out, exactly.

[08:00]

They're leaking you. Exactly. So I had a teacher many years ago that said, once we start, once we learn to speak... we never get a moment's peace because we're always sub-vocalizing. Our thoughts are coming in the form of words, coming in all these words. And so what I've been trying to do, and I remember you quoted in your book, which I've heard you quote before, in the scene, let the scene be the scene, let the heard be the heard. So what I've been trying to do is... Let the dead be the dead. What I've been trying to do is partially is letting sound, becoming more aware of sound so that I can realize it all the time what's happening, you know, which usually I'm dead to. But in particular, and this is what I especially would welcome your feedback on, I'm thinking, I'm trying to do this practice.

[09:02]

It has to do with Dogen Zenji, with letting... the myriad things come forward and actualize themselves instead of my going out there. So years and years, decades ago, I did this practice a little bit called Bates Method, which is to improve your eyesight. And I remember a couple of phrases from it, which I've been trying to do, which is like... When we look, our eyes are always shifting. So we go from one place to the other, but we kind of defocus, or I do. I don't actually see what's in between. When I look from here to here, I kind of defocus. I'm lost in my dead thoughts, and I don't really see. I don't really see what I'm looking at. And then another phrase I remember was, see from the back of your head, like Dogen Zenji says. It's not like you're going out and you're trying to see things. You're just letting the images come. Now, I realize all this is imaginary, and I'm using my imagination to free my imagination, but I wanted to know if you could give me some feedback on what you think about what I just said as a practice.

[10:07]

I saw a bunch of feedback come, yeah. Go ahead, please, give it to me. You asked for it. I asked for it. I asked for it. And then you asked for it. So here we go. Okay. So there's this teaching that when we practice and confirm myriad things of our life while carrying self. That's the definition of delusion. Like, I'm going to practice Zen, or I'm going to eat lunch, or I'm going to talk to you, I'm going to confirm you, I'm going to appreciate you, and I'm going to do that, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, that's delusion. Right?

[11:11]

Right. But when you come, when you come, when the practice comes, when whatever comes, And then there's me. Or when the mountains are there, and the rivers are there, and the earth's there, and that I'm born in them coming. When they come, when everything comes, and I'm born in that coming, that's enlightenment. So, if I may point out that she said what she thought, well, she's going to try to do the, she's going to try to do the, have the things come. In other words, she's going to try enlightenment. She told us that, right? In other words, she was going to do that. It's muscular at the beginning, but... It's muscular.

[12:11]

It's deeply... It's deeply... That's all we've got is delusion. So when you hear about enlightenment, you say, well, I think I'll try that. That's what sentient beings do. They hear about enlightenment, they're going to do the enlightenment thing. I've been, oh, that's delusion. Well, maybe I'll keep doing that, but after about ten more minutes of that, I'm going to switch to enlightenment. So... If you hear about delusion, you think, I'll do that, that's delusion. If you hear about enlightenment and you do that, that's delusion. Enlightenment is stuff's happening and then in the happening, you're born. The mountains and rivers are being born and you're born there. That's where you're born. And them happening. When we hear about that, which you've heard about today, you might think, well, I think I'll give it a try. I'll go be there for the birth of the mountains and rivers. Seems weird, but I'll give it a try. That would be delusion. Delusion. But when you see the mountains and rivers born and realize that that's your birth, that's enlightenment. But how do you get to see that? Well, the usual way is you get to see it by watching the delusion.

[13:15]

If you watch, I do the practice, I do the practice, I'm born with the mountains right now, I'm born with the rivers right now, I'm... Yes, I'm that. You watch that and be kind to that. It... you'll notice that you're turning, you're spinning yourself around by that all the time. And you'll actually spin into the other position because it's there all the time. You will spin into, oops, what was that? You missed it. Because then you try to get it again. But actually as you enter the spinning, which is going on, that delusion is itself totally inseparable from the enlightenment. That imagination that you're living your life, that you're doing the practice, is right there with the fact that your life is completely free of that story. But you have to totally immerse yourself in the delusion, for the delusion to cut through the delusion. The enlightenment isn't going to cut through the delusion. The enlightenment is that the delusion's already cut through.

[14:19]

The freedom is already cut through with the delusion. It doesn't need anything more. But if we shrink away, from carrying yourself forward and confirming and practicing all things, then it just goes on, sort of, in our half-heartedness. So the practice of, the Buddha said, train yourself thus, Carolina, in the herd there will be just the herd. In other words, when you first start doing this, I'm going to do the practice of in the herd there's just the herd. I'm going to do in the seen, there's just a seen. I'm going to do in the imagined, there's just the imagined. So we're doing the imagination, then you train yourself so that there's just the imagination and the imagination. But that isn't you doing the imagination, just the imagination, or you doing in the heard, there's just the heard. All there is is the heard. There's no you doing it. But when you first start doing it, I'm going to do this nice practice that the Buddha just taught me.

[15:22]

But in the original story where the Buddha taught this, the person who did it somehow didn't do it. He just let the herd be the herd. In the herd, there will be just the herd. But it won't be you letting the herd just be the herd. That guy got it like that. When we hear it, we think, oh, I'm going to try it. Fine. If you keep trying it, you'll notice, oh, well, actually, it's just me and the practice that I just heard about, which is a really nice practice, and I'd like to do it, and I'd like to do it, and I think I am doing it, or I think I'm not doing it, or I think I am doing it. But he didn't say for me to do it. He said, in the herd, they're just the herd. Train yourself that way so that that's the way it is. So then, if in the herd there's just the herd, then when there's the herd, you'll be there, you'll be born with that. When there's the sight of the mountains and then there's you, then that's where we get to.

[16:29]

And then he says, if you can get to that place and that's the way it is for you, then there will be no here or there or in between. There will be no identifying with these things, or he didn't say, but there won't be no identifying with these colors and sounds, and there'll be no disidentifying. Buddha just said, when you get to the place where in the herd there's just the herd and that's it, that's the end of the story, there's no additional comment, like there's the herd, and just the herd, and you're making it that way, then there's no identification with it, there's no here or there or in between, and that's the end of suffering. In the meantime we have to be really kind to ourselves, not yet reaching the place where in the herd there's just the herd. It's kind of like in the herd there's, well, there's the herd, yeah? And there's a comment, judgment, and I'm doing some of it and not doing other parts.

[17:36]

This is, you know, all that's going on. Each of those could be treated the same way. You could let each one of them just be what they are. So you have to stop your reactions. You just have to be kinder and kinder and more and more thorough in your kindness. You have to be more and more thorough so that there's no exceptions to your kindness, to your Troublemaking to the trouble and the fact of how the trouble is being made with, notably, language. So I'll put in brackets here the dependent co-arising of how the language troublemaking story. I'll just put that aside and come back to it. But you made that point, the person says, the language, it really is. It's our addiction to language, which is our addiction to knowing, driving the whole thing, and as long as we stay in that rut, we're going to be miserable, or less, depending on what we say.

[18:40]

But it's possible to become free of this thing without messing with it. Being kind to it isn't messing with it, it's really loving it thoroughly. And then when we're thoroughly busy loving it, we can receive the dharma of it, which was always there. But it's hard, you know, we have to train one time to be that thoroughly kind to the language process which is entrapping us. We have to be kind to the untrue to realize the true. We have to be kind to the entrapment to realize liberation. Right? And the situation is not just that we're entrapped, but we're in a giddy entrapment. We're entrapped and we keep getting distracted from the work of being kind to the walls of the prison. We've received the teaching, okay, now you're in prison, so now practice. Okay. And then we get distracted from the practice. But if we do the practice towards the entrapment and the perpetuation of the entrapment, because the entrapment is being maintained, the prison has a maintenance system, which is the language process, the imagination process.

[19:58]

It's being repaired and rebuilt all the time, and that's fine. It's a great opportunity to develop more compassion and more compassion and more compassion and deeper compassion. That's what it works on. It works on the problems the mind is creating. Those are the only problems to work on. There's no other problems. But they're hard to work on. And Buddha never said it was easy. I never heard Buddha say it was easy. It's easy when you're doing the practice, it's easy, but it's hard to do the practice. So that's good. So you keep doing that practice, it's still a good practice, that teaching is still a good teaching, and watch to see if it ever happens, so you do it so wholeheartedly that you're not doing it anymore. So the practice in the scene is just a scene, that's it, now it's that way, and you're doing it that way, but that's the way it is for you.

[21:01]

So at first you're doing it, and it's not that way for you because you're doing it. Then it's like, that's what's happening. It's in the scene, there's just a scene, which is always what's going on anyway. Then it's in the scene, it's just a scene for you. So then you get to be liberated by that practice. But at first, it's just another opportunity for delusion. But it's a good opportunity for delusion because it doesn't make sense that you would be doing that thing because it said not to do that. Right? But you notice, oh, I'm doing it the wrong way. And if you tell somebody like me, they say, oh, well, you're doing the same thing. And fortunately you say, oh, thank you. Right, that's right. So I'm not saying what you should do, but I think, well, actually I would say it would be good if you just keep reflecting on that teaching. It's a good teaching, keep reflecting on it, and then also reflect on whether you're messing it up.

[22:05]

And they say, yeah, I'm taking care of the teaching in kind of a somewhat hindered way because I think I'm an addition to the teaching, so I'm taking care of it, and I think that's delusion. So there's the teaching, there's delusion. There's the teaching, there's delusion. There's the delusion, there's the delusion, there's the teaching. And then time comes where there's just the teaching. Hallelujah. And then hallelujah. Yeah, and then hallelujah after there's just the teaching. But you have to confess a lot of times that I've been adding myself to the teaching for a long time. So also Dogen Zenji says, when you see sights and hear sounds fully engaging your body and mind, it's not like the image reflected in the mirror or the moon reflected in the water. Sometimes he uses the expression of the moon reflected in the water. Sometimes that is a metaphor for something. which he wants to teach. But in the case of full engagement of body and mind with seeing and hearing like this, you see, when you see with your whole body and mind, that's then, in the scene, there's just a scene.

[23:18]

When you hear sounds, fully engaging body and mind, in the heard, there's just a heard. In that case, it's not any longer like the image reflected in the mirror. It's not like that anymore. He says, when one side's illuminated, the other one's dark. So when you fully engage body and mind, when you're seeing a color, it's not like the image reflected in the mirror. It's just either the mirror or the image. There's no mirror, there's just an image. Or is it just a mirror and there's no image? Or there's just it and no you. Or there's just you. All there is is you. But if there's anything besides you, there's no you. There's not you and anything anymore. There's not you plus the universe anymore.

[24:20]

There's just the universe. Or there's just you. There's just you. That's all there is, is you. Everything else is dark. Or there's no you. There's just everything. Oh, and that, by the way, is guess what? Guess what everything is. So that's the whole universe is your true body. That's your true body is the whole universe. It's your body. It's the true body. It's not your body in the universe. That's not the true body. That's the deluded body. That's the half-hearted body. So most people are half-hearted, so they have the moon reflected in the water, or the image reflected in the mirror, or they have me and my experiences, me and my perceptions.

[25:21]

But even your perceptions, although... But the perceptions are that you're... that it's you and me, so perceptions are deluded. That's the way we know that they're appearances. But we aren't appearances. What? We're not appearances. We're not appearances, but we make appearances out of ourselves and other people aren't appearances either. And people are not appearances, you're living beings. Appearances don't suffer. Appearances aren't confused. Appearances aren't giddy. They're just images, which we can know. But you can't really know a living being, but you can realize them. And you actually are doing that all the time. That's some feedback. Thank you. I would say. Thank you very much. Very excellent. You're welcome.

[26:22]

Thank you for taking care of that practice. Thank you. May the practice take care of you. Amen. Amen. Amen. Does amen mean I agree with you? So be it. [...] Anything else at this time? Yes. What, what, Joel? Hi. You're Joel. Yeah, and your name's Ray. Okay. Okay, cool. So, here's the deal. This thing, when one side is illuminated and the other side is dark, I've been making a construction about that and spinning it around. Uh-huh. I'm glad you noticed.

[27:23]

Yeah. You've been spinning it around? Has it been spinning you too? Yeah. It's been spinning me. But I want to bring that up because it's really been spinning. And it's... And when you mentioned the, you know, when it comes towards you, because I don't think... It's not when it comes towards you. It's that when it comes forth. Yes. And there's you. There were birds in the trees, but I never heard them sing. No, I never heard them at all until there was you. So there was me. Hi. So it isn't that you see them coming forth. That's the same as you going towards them. That's right. It's that they come forth, and their coming forth is the realization of you.

[28:27]

That you're born and they're coming forth, not that they come forth to you. You're not before them. It isn't that the mountains pop up there, and then they're coming to you. It's that you're born with their popping up. Not afterwards. Afterwards. Same time. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. They are who you really are. Right, yeah. A little adjustment. A little adjustment. Yeah, so this teaching, the other side, one side is illuminated, the other side is dark. Can you hear me? Okay, when one side is... He's saying this teaching, when one side is illuminated, the other is dark, here's the punchline. Ah, confuses me. Confuses you, okay. Spins me around. The words of that teaching. Yes, the words of that teaching and the constructions I try to make... The words of the teaching and the constructions you try to make about those words spins you?

[29:35]

Spin me around. Yeah, and this teaching is partly to help you realize you're spinning. That's right. And to tune into the spinning. Yes, well... And then you can realize the teaching. Well, that's the part that I'm working on. I realize the spinning. Spinning is clear. Well, that's what you should take care of, is the spinning. With kindness. With kindness, right. Through the spinning. Yeah. Otherwise you're going to distract yourself from the spinning by trying to look someplace else for the realization. Right. It's in the spinning that you'll find the realization. And open to bow to the spinning. Yeah. Yeah. The reason why you're spinning is because you're trying to get the realization aside from the spinning. If you give that up, you'll find that the realization is right in the spinning. But it's hard to be kind to spinning. It's nauseating. It's not that bad. It's not that bad, I'm sorry. No, no, no. I didn't mean to be insulting.

[30:36]

Oh, no, no, no, it's cool. I mean, it's... Oh, good. Nauseating is not quite... It's giddy. Yeah, giddy is the word. I just said that sometimes when you're giddy, you get spun around by the giddiness, sometimes you start to get sick. The root of the word nausea is sick, isn't it? It's not real. But that's true. And it's to learn the compassion to the spin. Yeah, learn compassion and you get your sea legs and continue to be compassionate with the spinning, with the giddiness, with the turbulence. Yes. The boat of compassion is not rowed over smooth waters. So if you're in rough waters, that's where compassion is rowed. And then the further comment is, it's what I call it, it's a wasted effort to put out a wooden goose in the precipitous straits.

[31:45]

So in China, when they used to go through the white waters, they would sometimes, sometimes the captain would put out a, a goose ahead to watch how the goose went through the rapids and follow the pattern of the goose. But in this case, that's not the way to go. Don't plan ahead to see how to go through this rough water. Be right there with it. That's not as loving as like to go in and meet the fresh challenge of the giddiness. That's another slogan. No, the Zen teacher says, it's a waste of time to put the wooden thing out to see how to go. To look at where you are right now, we'd like to know, how are we going to get through there? Look at your head a little bit. Look at this thing coming here. You've got enough problems here. Don't get distracted by putting this thing out to see what to do when it gets worse. Because it's pretty bad now, and you say, oh, it's going to get worse later, so I should find out how to do that. Well, it's understandable, but actually come back here and take care of this.

[32:49]

Yeah. You can imagine, you know, look how bad it is now. And you've heard stories about how bad it can get, so we should probably plan ahead. So, you know. Okay, better, that's kind of a waste of time. You need better to concentrate on present problems. Just be there with the spinning. Exactly, the present spinning rather than, we've heard about super-worse spinning, so we should get some kind of program to get us ready for that. Well, that's to take care of this one. Yeah, this spinning. This is the best one to take care of. It's right here. It's right here, even though it's useless and boring. This is the best one to take care of. This is the best one. This is the one to work with. And again, even this one isn't quite the one. The one to really take care of is the one that we'll find if we take care of this one. You know, this is our imaginary version of the real one to take care of. If we take care of this imaginary version of the mountains and rivers of the immediate present, we'll enter the actual one.

[33:54]

where the Buddhist practice is really there, it's realized. But it's hard to take care of the spinning, so I'm glad you're aware of it, and that you're not running away from it much. Thank you. You're welcome. Taking care of the giddiness, karmic consciousness. It's a tough customer, and it's always changing. It's not the same tough customer that you saw this morning. No, it's a new one. Any other offerings, feedback? You don't have to go back to him? Well, you go after him. Just come. You don't have to go back, but I'll invite you. You can refuse. You can say, no way.

[34:56]

And I can respond to that. Thank you. How are things going now in terms of the hearing? I hear every word. It feels like the first time in 30 years. Wonderful. Congratulations. Many years ago... I'm happy to hear this. I'm happy to hear that. Or anything else you might say. Many years ago, I had a brief encounter with what I felt like enlightenment. I thought you were saying embarrassment. I had plenty of that, too. I felt that I could see the mountains and rivers and help part of them. But it didn't last very long. And it came through my body and not my mind.

[36:01]

My body had emotional fits of emotion that I had never experienced before or after. Fear, grief, shame, anger. My body was erupting like a volcano with those emotions And when my body stopped what it was doing, with no volition on my part, I felt connected with the world and with other people. And I didn't have to think about what to do or say. I knew what to do or say. I just did it without thinking about it. It lasted about four or five months. I know exactly when it stopped. I still laugh and cry a lot. Not enough. But I no longer am in touch with anger and fear the way I was.

[37:07]

So I need some advice. When you say that you're no longer in touch with anger and fear the way you were, is the way you were in touch with them a way you wish to be in touch with them? the way I was during that short period where my body was expressing these emotions for me without... I just stumbled upon it. So how were you with them at that time? I loved them. I loved crying with my whole body like a baby. So shall we return to loving them? Yeah. Let's return to loving whatever amount of laughing and crying there is, let's return to loving it. And if we return to loving it, we'll become free of our ideas of it again, and then that freedom will know what to do again. And if that freedom, if the appearance of that freedom goes away, we just continue the same practice that we did before, namely we'll love all these emotions.

[38:20]

But love doesn't mean like. It doesn't mean we like them, it means we welcome them generously, don't hold on to them, and we're careful of them, and we're patient with them, and we are really in touch with our aspiration to love them no matter what they are, and we're calm with them, and we remember the teaching that we are just dealing with mental constructions. I missed the last part of that sentence. We will keep in touch with the teaching that we're just dealing with our imagination of our life. Now I'm getting two of your voices. That's one too many. All right, feedback. Your voice is occurring twice. Let's try it again. Okay. So now we're going to return to what you did before when you kind of understood you loved all these emotions.

[39:29]

Yeah. You loved this eruption. Yeah. And that turned out to be the way to go. Yeah. And when you saw that that was the way to go, you knew that was the way to go. Yes. And you practiced that way for a while. Well, it didn't involve any practice, I mean... That was the practice. That was the practice. Your practice was that you loved all this stuff before you somehow realized that this was the way to go. Yeah. I get the impression that in the eruptions, somehow you just... you started to behave lovingly somehow. And then you understood that that was the way to go, and that was the way it was for a while. Well, I was loving, but it seemed to me that wasn't at the center of this discovery of myself. I discovered how incredibly emotional I was, which was like,

[40:31]

An unknown area. I mean, people, when I was an administrator, people would tell some people who had nothing to win by it, they would say, why are you so angry? And I'd say, me, angry? Right. And I was angry, but I didn't know it. And then in this interlude, I discovered my body said, you're damn right you're angry. And I was growling and biting and... writhing in my anger. But I didn't have a clue as to what I was angry about. It was like my body was angry. It wasn't a thought. Yeah, you don't need to know what you're angry about. You just need to know that you're angry and now you've got something to love. And you did. Okay, see, that's new to me because I never thought of it that way. Yeah, but I asked you how did you relate to this stuff and you told me that.

[41:33]

I guess you didn't realize that's what you did. I didn't realize. Now you do. And I think that you're allowing your body to teach you this was loving too. And then it showed up and you continued to love it. You continued to let it be there. Somehow you let this come up with help from various comments of mountains and rivers that this was going on. Finally, you opened to it and that was a generous, loving thing to do. And then you continued it and you became more and more at peace with that's the way to go, that's the way of peace. And then that went on for a while. But somehow the conditions to support it were lost. Now you're coming back and I'm reminding you of what you already know and I'm saying let's start over. Let's do it again. And let's just continue this because this is the way to go. It's to love these emotions which you now know are available and asking for help. They're calling for help. And they don't want anybody to fix them, they want somebody to love them.

[42:37]

Love them into freedom. They want to be and also be free. They want to find the way they really are. And your loving them will help them find the way they are. Well, that's a practical thought. I'll try. I'm glad to hear you'll try, and I hope you also do the practice of thinking about whether you think that's a good idea to do this practice. That's one of the practices which I just, that's among the various practices you do, among the practices of love, one of them is to think about how good it is to love until you really feel like, well, I'd like to do it. Matter of fact, I feel it was a great thing to do. I would like to actually do this practice. So you said you try, and I also want to emphasize you need to keep refueling the aspiration to try. Because saying you try is good, but that takes a little energy just to say it. And to do it takes a little bit more. So you have to keep replenishing energy to try this kind of loving thing to this turbulence.

[43:44]

Say, oh yeah, there was something I wanted to do. Oh, I wanted to love all this challenging material. I wanted to love it. Why did I want to? Oh, because it seemed like it would be peaceful and happy. Yeah. Actually, that would be good, wouldn't it? I feel good about that. I'd like to try that. Matter of fact, I really would like to try it, and that's what I'm going to, and I'm going to keep remembering to come back and refuel. Yep, that part of love is to refuel your aspiration. So part of what's happening here is you're coming back to get some refuel of your aspiration to do what you did before and to try it again and again. But I'm just reminding you, you need to do what we just did here. which is to review your karmical history so that you can see that this was a good thing you went through and you want to do it again. But you have to keep going back to it, otherwise you'd get tired by this hard work.

[44:50]

And then you sort of go with the program of being emotional but not even noticing it sometimes. So I'm saying, yes, let's try it. And also remember that you need by yourself and with others to refuel your aspiration to do this practice which you're telling us about, which we all think is really a good practice. And we can see, you know, in your story, it really works nicely. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. So did you get that? That part of love is refueling energy for love. Because you meet some challenging emotions and you give a lot of attention and all that generosity and carefulness with it, you know, that's good, that's excellent stuff. But karmic consciousness is giddy.

[45:52]

So what was it again I just did? to go back and say, oh yeah, right. And you have to think about how good it was that you did. You really did like that. You thought that was a good way to, you don't regret it. You think it was good. And you do regret when you forget it. So you think about that too, and you say, well, I should like to remember more often. That's where your aspiration comes from. And then you think about that aspiration until you feel like, yeah, I had to read it. I feel the energy coming now. And then you've got it again to go back to the practice. But you have to keep going back to the aspiration. That's the fourth dimension of the life, is to refuel. Your enthusiasm, by going back to your aspiration, your aspiration comes from thinking about how much you enjoy doing good things and how much you're sorry about unskillful things you do. You actually don't think that they're cool. And then you can really concentrate on this stuff, settle down, and then these teachings will really start penetrating.

[46:57]

Fourth dimension. Can you go through this again? The fourth dimension is sometimes called enthusiasm. Can you go through the first three? I started with you on the fourth. Generosity. Ethics in the sense of being careful of all your actions. Make sure that you're being ethical in relationship to the stuff that's been given to you. Now you've let them in the house. really generously, and you feel joyful that you're actually accepting these tremendous challenges, you're accepting the giddiness and the turbulence of your mind, really, and you feel joyful about that. But you can still be sloppy, and you can like, I don't know what, say, well, I think I'll get a hold of this thing or something. Or, well, nice to have you here, but get out. Or you could get angry at it or say, well, I think I'll take a little break from this by getting kind of intoxicated.

[48:03]

Because I'm even getting intoxicated by the joy of letting this thing in the house. So that's the ethics. And then the other part is patience with the discomfort that may be accompanying it. And then Now with these practices you can really go to work on energy. It takes some energies to do the first three. But now to develop even more energy, which you can do now because you have the first three, now you can really, now you know actually how good it is to do those first three. You say, I'm not completely free of delusion, but these things help. I'm still deluded and suffering, but these are very beneficial to these difficult states. Now I can see that I really want to practice them. So now you can feel more energy to practice them, but you have to go and kind of like replenish your spiritual enthusiasm by checking to see what it is that's really important to you. And to see that is like review your karmic understanding. You don't necessarily have perfect understanding of karma yet because you're not a Buddha, but you kind of know that you feel bad about that and good about this, at least for the short term.

[49:13]

And you really think this is a good idea and you think that's not a good idea. So try what you think is... I want to try what I think is a good idea. And I also understand it's difficult to remember that. So if I forget, I understand I should start over again and be generous. I shouldn't kill my forgetfulness. I shouldn't hate my forgetfulness. And I shouldn't slander my forgetfulness. And I shouldn't try to get something other than forgetfulness when i've got forgetfulness and so on i should be honest about my forgiveness i forgot period and so on and then patient with forgetfulness which means be there completely still with it and then go back to generate energy again okay those are the first four and then you go on to concentration and now you With these four, you can really have a good chance to concentrate. What? Well, on the teachings.

[50:15]

We tell you how to relate to whatever's happening. So it's how to be concentrated with whatever's happening with all these nice teachings about how. And then you can next see reality. You can enter it. As she said, when I say see, maybe you're over here and it's over there rather than you enter reality and then you can help others to go through the same process of entering the mountains and rivers of the immediate present. So we look at those beautiful mountains out there and I look at them and I still remember the teaching that there's the mountains and rivers of the immediate present And these are my wonderful fantasies of those mountains, which I'm kind to my fantasizing, and I'm kind to how they appear to me, but I know they're not just how they appear to me.

[51:21]

They're much... They're limitless, and my beautiful... The beauty I see of them is not their full beauty. It's just a little... fantasy about their beauty, which is great. I love those mountain fantasies. And if I love those mountain fantasies, I get over the mountain fantasies and enter the real mountains. But I have to be kind to my mountain fantasies and my river fantasies in order to enter the reality of mountains and rivers, which is where our real life of freedom is living right now. Any other offerings at this time? You already answered my both questions. Okay. You sounded like it.

[52:23]

Thank you for your sounds. You're welcome to continue to make sounds. I love your sounds. I love yours too. Yes. So sometimes when I look at the mountains and the waters and the immediate present, what comes, what's born is a question. It's just a question, what is that? It doesn't really have an answer. Well, even if it doesn't have an answer, it's already good. It feels pretty good. Questioning is part of love.

[53:24]

It's a wisdom part of love. It's a life of wisdom. What is that? But now, what is that to get the answer? Answers may come, but hopefully you don't stop questioning. You don't turn that part of love off just because an answer comes. Answers are acceptable, it's just that they're dangerous if you grasp them. But you're not supposed to grasp them because you're practicing ethics with answers. So don't be attached, don't be possessive of answers. Any kind of, just, you know, say, thank you very much and let it go. And then ask again, well, what is it? It seems like if answers show up, they're just imaginative possibilities. I mean, there are lots of possibilities. There's lots of imaginative possibilities. And there are other possibilities besides imaginative ones, too. It's just that those ones are not, don't appear. We don't know about them, but they're still there. and we can enter them by being respectful of the imaginative possibilities, which we can see.

[54:32]

So we see some imagined or imaginative possibility and we understand teaching, which is there's a lot more possibilities than what I'm imagining here. and then we act towards this maybe wonderful or not so wonderful imaginative possibility. The imaginative possibility could be there's no possibility for anything good. That could be imaginative possibility. I imagine this is really a bad situation and that's it. Well, that's not very open to the other possibilities. If you're open to other possibilities, you maybe put your hand together and bow to this image of no possibilities of good. You thought of that as an act of respect and etiquette, which acknowledges You know, this could possibly be a great bodhisattva. It's possible. And I don't know that it is, but I'm open to that, so I should be very respectful to this possible beneficent being here, which looks, through my mind, like a really bad situation or not helpful person.

[55:43]

But, you know, I got that, and I respect that, but I respect also a lot more possibilities, so I'm very polite to this, and I treat this as though there were some... It was a good thing. But I still, honestly, I don't think it's good. I think it's really bad. If you ask me, I'd say, I think it's really bad. But, hey, that's just what I think. And I'm, like, totally free of what I think, so I'm a happy camper. Get that? Could you hear that? Happy camper, you got that one? That was a joke. Sometimes I hear my daughter say, okay, bye. And to some extent I feel sorry for her because I notice that she actually is just doing what... A lot of women in their 30s say now this, okay, bye.

[56:45]

You notice that? Okay, bye. It's not really that they're in a hurry. It's actually, it's kind of this sweet little thing they say to you, okay, bye. Okay, bye. Okay, bye. So if you say that, you're like talking like a young woman. That's nice. I'll practice that. I'm going to try it myself. Okay. I'm deeply touched that you're open to this amazing teaching that all the Buddhas are practicing together with each one of you. Wonderful that you didn't reject that out of hand, as they say. and that you also listen to the teaching that the mountains and rivers and the great earth are born together with you in the same moment that you're born.

[57:48]

I'm glad that you are so calmly receiving this amazing suggestion. Any other contributions at this moment that you care to offer other than the ones you're making right now? I have one more amazing teaching to offer you today, but I'm gonna let you do some walking meditation first, okay?

[58:25]

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