I heard someone say, as they were entering, let's go in here and see what happens. I thought, that sounds good, let's see what happens. Is there anything you wish to discuss? Yes. Yes, please. Would you pull the question forward to the edge? Yeah, thank you.

[01:00]

My partner there is a My partner there is horrified that I'm up here talking to you. He's a student of Reverend Miao, and we attend Harper Street Zen Center. I liked your talk today, and there was a part of it that kind of infuriated me, too. Okay, great. All in the same time. I really like the dream part. about, you know, when you come to these centers, sometimes you feel like, you know, so-and-so didn't acknowledge me, or I don't feel cared for or friendship or whatever. Sometimes it's hard, and I feel like the practice and just the quiet container that is what these Zen centers are, so... I think that's great advice, and I appreciate that. I'm really involved in sort of the operations of that little Zen center in the Castro. And of course, the feedback we get all the time is it doesn't feel friendly when people drop in the first time. And it doesn't feel encouraging as a result of not feeling friendly.

[02:05]

I also go to City Center. That's actually where my formal teacher is, and I've heard the same things about City Center as well. So for me, we're always kind of coming up against that question of how do we do that? You know, you don't want it to be jello molds and and you know um all those kind of western church kind of ways of reaching out to people but um i was fortunate i knew someone on the inside of city center someone who worked in the library for years and he took me around and introduced me to all the different priests and so i was really fortunate so i got to meet sort of an inside track but before that i'd been going for a while and uh no luck in kind of feeling like I could kind of make my way in. So I'm just curious what you sort of think about that. And the reason I think I felt a little inferior is I've kind of approached this topic a few times with folks, and they were kind of like, well, you know, like, yeah, that is a problem. And I agree with sort of the perspective of, and what are you doing to help with that? What do you do what? They kind of turn to me and say, well, what do you do to sort of help with that, changing that environment?

[03:10]

And so my response was kind of like, well, I don't know. I think it's a challenge for this practice, at least in this country, with the way that Western American people are. Did everybody hear his question or his observation also? That a lot of people feel when they come to various Zen centers that they don't feel that people are being friendly or welcoming. So, Green Gulch has heard that and Green Gulch has attempted to convey a sense of welcoming and warmth to people when they come. So, like, you know, someone might drive in and

[04:11]

you know, and coming to be a guest or something. And I might see them get out of their car and they might say, you know, where's the kitchen? And, you know, I might say, well, I'll take you and show them where it is. And they might feel welcomed. But they might not. Or I might not take them all the way. I might just take them partway and say, it's right over there. And they might feel welcomed or not. But I think... I definitely, no question about it, I wish to welcome all beings. I wish to do that. I want to do that. I want to welcome everybody that comes. But that doesn't mean they're going to feel like I'm welcoming them. But they might. But they might not.

[05:13]

So I think, just speaking for myself, I wish to welcome every being that comes. If I'm at a Zen center, I wish to welcome them. If I'm at a restaurant, I wish to welcome them, even if I don't work there. If I'm just another diner, I wish to welcome the people who come in there, but they may not feel like I'm welcoming them. But they might. It's possible. So I think that the spirit of Zen is to welcome all beings. However, beings may not feel that way, and hopefully, even though they don't feel that way, they could let the people know that they feel that way. That would be them welcoming. You coming up here and saying that is kind of welcoming of you and courageous of you to say that you're concerned about this and that you've felt this way and that maybe even some people have sometimes felt like you weren't welcoming.

[06:19]

I don't know. We don't know. But it is an issue But I think I would say the main thing is look in your own heart and see, do you wish to be friends to all beings? And do you wish to welcome all beings? And then deal with the fact that sometimes people do not feel welcomed. And then can you try to help them tell you about that and support them even when they don't feel welcomed? But the practice is to welcome people. But it doesn't mean that people always feel welcomed. And some people go to other places and they feel welcome, but they feel like the welcoming is whatever. They don't feel comfortable with the type of welcoming. They can tell the people are trying, but then they don't quite. It doesn't help them understand their own mind

[07:25]

So you can overdo it or underdo it. And I think sometimes at Zen Center, once in a while, we overdo it. Maybe our usual way is to underdo it. But once in a while, we hit the mark. And when the mark is hit, people are like, People are like, their life changes. And they don't necessarily even think friendly. They just think beautiful. They just think, this is what my life's about. So like I saw a picture one time, if you want. I moved out of my office and I took the picture out. But I saw a picture once. I didn't see it in 1954. But the picture was from a 1954 Life magazine.

[08:30]

And it had a picture of a person sitting cross-legged on tatami mats. And this picture was from his back. And the light was coming in from the front. It was just the shape of his body sitting. And I looked at that. And I just thought it looked so beautiful. And underneath it said, in deepest thought. And I thought, yes, deepest thought, when we're in deepest thought our body somehow conveys beauty. Was that welcoming? To me it was like it was very welcoming. But the person was just sitting there still And so some people offer this way to welcome people. Some other people offer another way. So I think we're just maybe working with each other. Within Zen Center, some people are very welcoming in a way that this person sees as welcoming. Another person's welcoming in a way that this person doesn't see it welcoming, but this person over here does see it.

[09:33]

Like when I saw Suzuki Roshi's feet, they welcomed me. So I think we want to do is just basically that the idea is welcome people to study themselves and become free of themselves. But the techniques and the forms, you know, and another thing to welcome is people telling us our shortcomings. Can I make a suggestion? Yes. Because I come with, you know, I'm kind of an answers guy, not just a problem guy. Make a suggestion, yeah. And this is what I actually have already done for both Hartford Street and for City Center is that I kind of explain to people a little bit about, you know, the practice may look a little bit like this and people may look a little like this, but that's just what it looks like. And I just point blank. I put it on a city center's Yelp page. There's an explanation, you know, that I say, you know, because there were comments where people say I've come by and everyone is this or that and they look really stern and they look really scary. And so I responded to all those in Yelp and said, hey, you know, it looked kind of like what you're saying.

[10:35]

It looks like that. But let me give you an insider perspective. That's not really what it is. And you just have to kind of Dig in a little and make a little bit of effort and so I did that for Harvard Street too because we get that all Zen centers I think get the same feedback. So it's not it's not so much a like personal failing of city center It's just I think the way the practice looks in this country, you know manifested as a Japanese style. That's all Well Hopefully that will help people open their eyes or the possibilities of what those people are doing and Like just, you know, I often, during the chanting, usually when we're sitting we don't see each other's face. But when we're chanting you can see the people's face. And they, generally, it's, I would say, not a high percentage of the people are like smiling like this. Avalokiteshvara bodhisattva... Generally they're not smiling like that, right?

[11:36]

But I know from personal experience that some of those people who are chanting like this, Avalokiteshvara Bodhisattva, are very happy. And they're feeling, how fortunate I am to be with these people. Some of them are thinking that. Other people are thinking, this is really early. I'm tired. I need a cup of coffee. They're having a hard time. But everybody looks kind of the same. They're all just kind of looking . But some are very happy inside. And some are feeling like, oh, I'm so grateful to be here with these beautiful people. And some other people are thinking, these people are not chanting very well. And some other people are thinking, like I said, a lot of people are thinking, I'm tired. I'm tired and I'm hungry. Or I hate this chant. Or I love this chant. Or sometimes people think, oh, now I understand it. But they all look kind of the same. So it'd be nice for some people to tell them, you know what?

[12:41]

A lot of stuff's going on there. It's inconceivable what's happening at the Zen Center. It's just the most amazing place. And you have to go there and just open yourself because it's not that obvious. And so please tell people secretly. I have a secret about the Zen Center. Don't tell anybody. It's really, these people are really, some of them are really having a hard time, but the other people, you know, so on. Give them the whole, write a novel about the Zen Center. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Transparency. Why not tell them that? Yeah. Take the veils off and say what could be going on there. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, please come. Yes, please. Hello.

[13:44]

The friendship. Native Americans say, friendship that you talked about this morning native americans say all my relations yeah that we're all related and i love that so i loved how you talked about it today and i i feel like i understand it and indeed it doesn't sometimes matter um how it is perceived it's more matters that the energy is there that the love is there I wanted to ask you about when there is sometimes more connection between people, of course, right? Like when you see Suzuki Roshi's feet, it meant something to you. So on one hand, We all need to be here. Whoever's here is perfectly here, right, at this moment. On the other hand, there sometimes does seem to be a special inconceivable connection between people.

[14:47]

And I hear you say that you don't know why that is. But I still wonder just your thoughts around that. There is something that life brings us, what we need to know, what teachers we need, what learnings we need. Where does that come from? I don't know, but there is that thing of one time before I got married, I was talking to my wife in one of the buildings on the UC Berkeley campus. I was sitting on a bench and she was sitting there behind me and we were talking. And I saw behind her two huge wheels, like gears, two huge wheels coming together. And the gears kind of coming like this and then going like that. I just saw that. And I just, you know... you know, we sometimes say karmic affinity or certain causes and conditions.

[15:55]

So I often thought, you know, I looked at myself and I don't think I'm the worst person, but I know many people who are in a way that they're more virtuous than I am. So I used to wonder, why do I get the chance to be here with Suzuki Roshi? Many people appreciate him, but why do I get to live in the same building next door to him? And how does that work? I don't understand. It doesn't make sense to me that I would be so fortunate to have some years with him. But that's a special, inconceivable thing. Sometimes you meet certain people, and then for the rest of your life, That's very important. And other people are also, you care for them, but they don't keep, they're not like in your life every day, in your mind or your heart, but some people are.

[17:03]

So there are these, we say, affinities. Yeah, you've made many sacrifices, I'm sure, in your life to do this, to be with Suzuki Roshi. So I think if you didn't meet Suzuki Roshi, would your life have been the same? Would your vow to be helpful to people, to do this job, have been the same? You know, sometimes it's a chicken and egg question. I just feel, again, how fortunate I am that the world supported me and still supports me to sit on that seat there every day. And I used to think, what's a young man doing, spending all his time just sitting in a meditation hall? How does that? It seems so strange, you know, that a young person would spend his or her life

[18:08]

that young people would devote so much of their time and energy to just sitting in meditation. How does that happen? What are the causes and conditions? I don't know. But I did give up a lot, but it was not painful to give it up, because I felt like everything I gave up, all the things I gave up were enhanced by what I was doing. So it was always very easy for me. Other people feel like they can't give it up somehow. Their karmic situation is they cannot give up these involvements and feel responsible. So they can't come and like train, even though there's a teacher there. And like I saw Suzuki Roshi, like I said, I didn't necessarily think he was like me, it's just that I was there. And these other people who he might like more, they weren't there. And I knew he really cared for them.

[19:12]

And I thought, how can they pass up on the chance? Because I could see he really cared about them. He would say, where are those people? They didn't know, or maybe they did know, but somehow they didn't avail themselves of his love for them. And maybe he didn't love me, but I was there, so I got it. Why was I so lucky to be there? And they somehow didn't get themselves to be in a place where they would get it. I don't know how that works. I would sometimes tell them, I'd say, do you know how much he loves you? And they'd say, oh, really? Yeah. But they didn't come. Or even they left Sin Center and went someplace else. So I don't know how this all works, but I'm devoted to it. Thank you. Anything else this noon?

[20:20]

Yes. Hi. Hi. Oh, is it on? It is, I think. Maybe not. Unfortunately, I got here just as everyone who's coming out of the Zendo lecture time, or just after. And so, since no one else was going to ask a question, your talk today was about friendliness. No, it was about friendship. I said friendship, but actually about good friends. One of the words that you use for a teacher in India is kalyana mitra, which means good or beneficial friend. I was talking about this good friendship or good friends. And I was also saying that good friendship, the title of this practice period is The Buddha Way as Good Friendship.

[21:36]

Thank you. You're welcome. Yes? I really don't want to come up here. You don't have to. Well, everyone else did. Everyone else did, so... Well, I... Working?

[22:42]

Yeah, I think so. I hope I'm not presumptuous, because this has been my first experience with Zen Buddhism. Welcome to Zen Buddhism. First experience. I'm not sure what I mean, welcome to. I'm not either. I'm not sure who you are either. Who are you? I'm not even sure who you are, but I'm welcoming. Thank you. It's good to be here. So as I... vaguely have experienced it in a few writings and things. It seems to be a situation, at least it manifests itself as a master bombarding their students with a series of unanswerable questions. Now, I don't know if that's just a totally ignorant statement. Did you hear what he said? Yeah. Did you hear what he said? Did you hear what he said?

[23:45]

The master bombarding the student with unanswerable questions. Maybe I'm totally off. There's a lot of stories like that. But also the student asks the master, bombards the master with unanswerable questions. Well, at least I can ask an ignorant one. So if that is the case, what is the purpose of it? It's not the case, though. It's just a story. Pardon me. All right. It's just a story. So what is a story? Did you say what is a story? Yeah. It's a narrative that appears in consciousness. That's it? And what's the definition of narrative? A story. Okay, okay. They're kind of synonyms. It's a narrative. For example, in my consciousness now, I have this story that I'm talking to a man with gray hair and a blue shirt.

[24:47]

That's a story I have about what's going on here. Right here. Yeah, that's a story I have. But that's not what's going on, that's just my story. You may have a story, too. Oh, yeah. Several. Yeah. Some of them are even real. Yeah, well, I'm saying that the story, that we naturally, human beings naturally have stories going on. And oftentimes human beings believe that their story about what's going on is actually what's going on. But it's not. True. So why would you ask someone, what is the sound of one hand clapping? I can answer that question with a story. Then I won't bother you anymore. Yes, please. But it's just a story. I don't know why you would ask someone that. I don't know why you asked me that just now. I don't know why you brought that up.

[25:50]

Because I've heard someone, that's the kind of question that's asked. That's your story about why you're asking. Uh-uh. I said, I didn't know why you asked the question. And then you said, because, and then you told me a story about why you're asking. But I don't know that that's why you're asking. That's just a story you told me about why you're asking. You actually might work for the television station or something, and you're coming here to do an article on us. I do not know why you're talking to me or why I'm talking to you. Well, to the best of my understanding of my own self, I'm asking because I'm curious and puzzled and it doesn't make any sense. Right. Now, that might be the story. I think it is. I think you just told me a story and you said, to the best of my knowledge of myself, and then you told me a story. And I'm saying back to you another story.

[26:52]

This is just a story. The story is that most people have stories about themselves and about what they're doing and why they're doing it. Most people do that all day long. They say, the reason I went to the store was to buy some eggs. People do stuff like that. And they think that's true, that that's why they went to the store. Okay? But that's not why they went to the store. And I don't know why they went. Could be. No, that's just their story. And maybe they're fine with that. Maybe they're fine with that story. Can anyone else explain? I'm not explaining. I'm just... Zen Buddhism, the primary thing about Zen Buddhism is to free people from their stories about their life. Okay. Because most people, their suffering comes from their stories about their life. So Zen is to help us become free of the stories.

[27:53]

Here's an example. Want to hear an example? Absolutely. Absolutely. So I... I went to Houston, Texas. And as I was going through the security thing, I took my driver's license out and put it in a bucket or something to go through the machine. And in the hubbub, after it's over, I didn't get my driver's license back. So I had to go to the DMV and go through the process of getting a new driver's license. I didn't have to, but I wanted a driver's license, so I did that. You know? You okay? This is a story. This is a story I'm telling you about my life. And the story was, I don't particularly want to go to DMV to get a driver's license and spend my time and money doing that.

[28:57]

But I did anyway. And then they gave me a temporary license. And I went to Europe. And I came back. And my new driver's license hadn't come yet. And then, also then, my grandson, who was young, boy at the time, came on the airplane from Los Angeles to San Francisco, and I was going there to pick him up, and I had to have a special thing to pick him up, and I went through there, and my temporary driver's license had expired. But they still let me pick him up, fortunately. So he wasn't stranded at the airport. So then I thought, oh, my temporary driver's license expired. Where's my new one? I've been away for a month in Europe. So I called the DMV and they said, we have no record of your... So I had to go back and get another one. And various things happened such that

[30:07]

That one didn't work either. So then I had to go back to Department of Motor Vehicles again to get a driver's license. So I was waiting in line, you know, to try to get my third driver's license. And up ahead of me, there was a woman in the line. And she turned around and she said, hi, Reb. And I said, hi, Janie. And she gave up her position in the line and came over to talk to me. And she said, how are you? And I said, I'm fine, except I'm here. She said, what do you mean? Well, I'm at DMV. And she said, don't you understand? You're here for me. And I woke up from my story. I realized my story of, you know, I don't want to be a DMV. This is not the place to spend my life. Going through line over and over a DMV and paying more and more money.

[31:15]

I'm here for her and other people there, wherever we are. But we have these stories like, this is not where I want to be, this is not what I want to do, this doesn't make sense, this does make sense. And then somebody says... another story and we wake up from our story and realize that's just a story and we're liberated from arguing with our life because the story says this is not supposed to be happening. It isn't that the story this is not supposed to be happening is going to stop or evaporate. It's just we're going to wake up to, that's just a story. We're really here to be good friends with everybody. And any story you tell, if you hold on to any story you have, like for example, you could hold on to this story, this is my good friend. Holding on to this story kind of blocks realizing. the friendship.

[32:21]

So we're not going to stop having stories like these are my friends or these are not, these people appreciate me, these people don't. There are going to be stories like that. The practice is to become free of them. Well, the story went places I didn't expect, but it was very good. Thank you. You're so welcome. Thanks for your questions. even though they weren't incomprehensible. Next time come and give me some incomprehensible questions. Then you'll be a Zen master. Yes, yes, yes. Come. Come, please come. Come, come, [...] come. Yes. Okay. Okay.

[33:25]

Oh. Who are you? Don't do that one to me. Yes, sir. Hi. Roshi. Hi. I believe, there's the belief that, I heard you say the words, you wake up from a story, and... The land of sky blue waters. And you really, ah, that we are here to be good friends to everybody. Yeah. And then you tell some stories, but you know they're stories, and you give them as gifts, and you don't expect that they're going to be true, but you give stories as gifts once you're free of them.

[34:31]

You don't give stories to control what's happening or to get a hold of what's happening, but just to give gifts. Who gave me this water? I believe it was I who gave you this water. That's his story. You believe it was you? There is that belief. There's a memory. Do you have that story and do you believe that story? Yes. Okay. I hear you. I thought maybe he'd say that. I have my question. Isn't it funny that he gave me this water? I mean, isn't it funny that we have that story that he gave me this water? Got the water and him and just boom. Is it quenching your thirst? As a matter of fact, I have a story that is not quenching my thirst, but it's delicious.

[35:34]

water refreshing from the land of sky blue this is from the land of sky blue waters that's where it's from it's from the land of pines and lofty balsams that's where this came from Right? That's the story. Up there in those mountains where there's the pines and lofty balsams, there's water, and it's coming down to us people here. Actually, this is from Green Gulch. So it's from the pines and lofty... We don't have balsams here. So it's just from the pines and lofty mountains. That's the story of this water. Yeah. It's not quenching my thirst, but it's definitely relating intimately with my thirst. But I'm still thirsty. You still have a job.

[36:41]

That's the story. Thank you. You're welcome. I didn't ask my question, but I think that that's perfectly fine. I know it's fine. I know it's fine. But would you like to ask your question? Sure. Your question? You're welcome to ask the question. Okay. I'm going to listen to your question now. Okay. That's the story. Do you... So there was... The words that I remember hearing were that we are here to be good friends to everybody. And it seemed to me like you were saying that is when you wake up from your stories, you realize. My question is, is that just another story? Realizing that we're here to be good friends is not necessarily the story, we are here to be good friends. You don't necessarily have that story when you realize it.

[37:45]

The story that we're here to be good friends is not the reality of us being here to be good friends. Thank you. You're welcome. our friendship our actual friendship is inconceivable and there's a story that human beings make up stories of friendship but none of our stories ever reach the actual friendship of our life and it's sad but we also have stories that some people are not our friends we have stories that some people are are enemies.

[38:50]

We have stories like that. But I'm not saying we should deny those stories, that some people are enemies. I'm saying that if you wish to be free of the story that so-and-so is your enemy, then the path to realizing freedom from the thought, these are my enemies, is to welcome the story, this is my enemy. to be generous towards the story, this person is not my friend. This is the path to realizing our true relationships. But it's hard to welcome the story, this person hates me, this person is not my friend. It's hard to welcome that. So there's a training that's involved. And we need to be patient with how hard it is to learn to do that. But there's an announcement being made that it is possible to learn this.

[39:51]

And when you learn this, then you're free of the stories of this is my friend and this is not my friend. You're free of those stories. And then you can help other people be free of their stories. This is my friend, this is not my friend. I don't know really if there's much difference between grasping the story, this is my friend. I don't know if that's more or less harmful than grasping the story, this is not my friend. I think the grasping of any story is basically, it's hard to measure how harmful that is, but that's the basic harm is that we grasp these stories. So we're training to be kind and generous and compassionate to all stories. But it's hard. It's hard to be generous to the story. This is terrible, this is horrible, this is cruel, this is unjust.

[40:55]

We're not saying, no, no, it's not unjust, it's just. We're not arguing with the stories. We're saying, we're listening. So the basic practice could be summarized as, number one, listen. Listen to the stories. And then train your listening by generosity and ethics and patience and diligence and concentration and wisdom. Train your stories, train your listening, and when you train your listening you'll be able to hear the true Dharma while people are telling their story to you, or while you're telling your... listening to your own story. And when you hear the Dharma, then there will be peace and the land and the sky. That's the basic proposal. Listen. Train the listening. Hear the truth. Liberate beings from suffering.

[42:01]

So I think... I think I have a story that sometimes all of us sometimes listen. And I have this story that all of us are in the process of training our listening so that our listening can be wholehearted. And in that wholehearted listening, we hear. But the training is hard. That's why patience is a big part of the training. Because it hurts to hear the cries. But Zen is welcoming, but also Zen is part of welcoming is to listen to the cries of the world. And when we listen, it can hurt to hear the cries. But that's not a bad hurt. And then we need to be generous and patient and careful with listening to the cries.

[43:06]

So we don't say that this is an easy training. But because of the good friendship, we have a chance of continuing to do this difficult training, to not give up, to not blame somebody else for it being hard, and to feel that it's so important that we're going to open to the possibility that we're supported to do this difficult training. I believe we are, but I also see the story that it's really hard training. But I also see people doing it. And I also, you know, I have this story that people are training. And I feel grateful that we can train and that we have this teaching that says we have this friendship, but we have to train our listening to open to it.

[44:14]

I'm listening to you. I'm listening to you, but I don't say I hear you, but I am listening to you and I want to hear you. Thank you very much.

[44:44]

@Transcribed_v005
@Text_v005
@Score_88.92