Yesterday, I saw a silverfish running around inside of this bell. And I was not afraid of silverfish. Or I was not. By the silverfish in this bowl. And I took the bowl outside and tipped it upside down in some plants. I think the silverfish left the bowl. So I wanted to be doing that when I thought that I did kindly. I wanted to confess to you that there have been times in the past when silverfish have scared me. places unexpectedly and I swatted them.

[01:05]

I'm sorry about that. And also a few days ago at Green Voucher, I was informed that there was a problem with bed bugs. I was also told that California is a place that bugs. And so... It is not my decision directly to deal with the bedbugs, but I understand that probably the director of Green Gulch Farm, some people will heat the building up or the room up where the bedbugs were found. to 140 degrees probably, and that will probably kill the bed bugs.

[02:21]

It was brought up to me by some people who didn't directly oppose this idea, but were suffering because of it. And I was certainly sympathetic to their suffering, but I did not say, I strongly oppose this, anybody heating the rooms up to kill the bed bugs. Because I thought if they weren't dealt with in some way, that's one way to deal with them. But there's other ways to probably mean that they would die. and that it would be hard to use the rooms for people to sleep in after that. We didn't do something about it. So that's why I tell you that I was in this dilemma, and I still am. Not feeling good about killing them, but also not feeling like it was quite right to strongly oppose it.

[03:32]

Any comments that you tend to make to this time about that? I'm just turning the air conditioning on so it wouldn't get to 140 degrees. One advantage of coming up is that the question gets recorded where else? I don't know. Would it get recorded if they stayed in the back of the room? It's better coming up. Related to that, it seems to me Can you hear me? It seems to me that it's Being a living organism is that other living organisms have to lose their life in order for me to maintain mine.

[05:09]

So, you know, I try to find a way with that. And sometimes I try not to think about it. I think that that's the nature of living, of being a living organism. And I know there's a precept not to take wife, but I think it's unavoidable. There's a precept, and the way I would translate the precept is the precept of not killing. That's what it actually says. It's not killing. It doesn't say do not kill or It doesn't actually say don't take life. It says not killing or not taking life. So it's a precept to try to practice not killing and understand what not killing means.

[06:19]

Not killing. But the practice of not killing Yeah, the practice of not killing is not the same as the precept of not killing. The precept of not killing is something we have a chance to understand if we practice not killing. And also, I don't disagree with what you said about the condition of being a living being, but noticing that one could then feel relieved of sadness or grief or discomfort, one could use that to get immediate gratification, to relieve oneself of the discomfort of the killing or the non-killing. So I don't disagree with you, but I just caution the use of that observation, moral responsibility.

[07:22]

to evade, what in my case is particularly to evade the suffering of the humans who work closely with the situation where the bedbugs are. And people who were working there were the ones who came to me and told me that not so much the bedbugs, but they had trouble with killing them. The humans were clearly having a hard time with this, on the verge of really stressed with this prospect of heating the rooms up. It's not toxic to the environment, but it's toxic to anybody, certain animals that are in the room. So somehow you can make that observation and then watch out that you're not using that as a cape for moral responsibility. Maybe that observation would even help you settle with the responsibility.

[08:29]

That would be, I think, a good use of it. A good use of it, not in a non-addictive way to use that observation. To actually help you face the problem here. As a reminder of the problem rather than a way to ignore it and say, well, it's unavoidable. So it's a tricky thing not to stay up right there. So are you suggesting You stay aware of it, but you serve the samples and not do it. I'm thinking, for instance, I garden. When I garden, there's some organisms I tolerate in my garden, but I kind of go after the snails. And I know that there's something about that, but I do it. Yeah, something about that where you do what? Go after them.

[09:29]

You go after the snails? What do you do with them? I put something down that's toxic to them. You give them toxins. I do. And it maybe kills them. Yeah. At least that's understanding. So then, I guess what I recommend to myself is to look at that. Like, for example, look at it. And look at the snails when they're poisoned. That would be probably a good idea. Yeah. Maybe. For me, it might be a good idea to look at them. to face the suffering. And if you face enough suffering, maybe you'll find the meaning of the precept, not killing, hopefully. And then maybe, yeah. And I don't know what you do then. Trying to think about non-killing as, you know, it's very easy to slip over into a kind of tent-to-nap-its version of it, and that seems not so good.

[10:42]

Well, you say it's not so good, but anyway, I'm just saying, what is the meaning of not killing? And the meaning of not killing is not necessarily, it's probably not what anybody in this room thinks it is. All of our opinions of what not killing means are not what it means. Somebody's opinion about this precept. And so if you, same with the Ten Commandments, I would guess that if you I'm not an expert or authority on the Ten Commandments, but if you think that the precept means what the Ten Commandments think, that's not what not killing means. Anything you slip into, any thoughts you have about what these precepts mean are not what the precept means. But if you contemplate these precepts, it's unavoidable that if you contemplate, the contemplation will bring up thoughts about the precepts.

[11:49]

So you have to deal with thoughts about the precepts when you contemplate the precepts. And the way you work with your thoughts has the possibility of understanding your thoughts. When you work with your thoughts, then you can understand the precepts. And part of contemplating anything is ethics. And ethics, again, means to study your action in relationship to these issues which you're doing. And also, part of wisdom is to observe living beings, to observe humans who are bedbugs, and to observe bedbugs, and to observe all beings with eyes of compassion.

[12:52]

That's the idea. And then, if I'm observing and silverfish with eyes of compassion, Then I watched, what do I do besides observing them? And then while I'm observing bedbugs, I'm also observing humans who are upset about the bedbugs. And I'm observing humans bringing in terminex. I'm observing that. And confessing to you, I did not speak up and oppose the idea of bringing exterminators And I'm observing myself not opposing them and feeling, I'm observing I have some stress about not opposing them.

[13:53]

And I have stress about opposing them because then I'm saying, the humans have to live with the bedbugs. I should move into the room with the bedbugs. But, you know, that gets complicated. So... If I'm not willing to move into the room, it seems funny for me to leave them in the room for somebody else to move in. And then also if you leave one room where nobody moves in, they spread. And also if you cook them now, maybe you're just cooking three bed bugs, possibly. They've only seen three. If you leave it, you may be cooking many. So maybe it's better to do it rather than just leave the room for them to multiply. Anyway, these are painful ethical considerations.

[14:55]

When we contemplate sentient beings, we feel some pain about their suffering, but that pain hopefully is encouraging to continue to support our contemplation of their pain. And we don't get discouraged and close our eyes. That particular precept of not killing it, to me it's, in some ways it's more complicated because it's the one that I very quickly go to, right, in order to simplify it. And the others seem complicated when I get black and white. Well, one of the ways to make it not black and white is to look at that precept in terms of the other precepts. So look at the precept of not killing in terms of, for example, praising yourself at the expense of others.

[15:57]

Kind of more important than bedbugs? Or our responsibility to humans is more important than our responsibility to bedbugs? Now, in this case, there was no slander of the bedbugs. People weren't saying, bedbugs are worthless, terrible creatures, and we should eliminate them. But if there was slander, then that would be more like black, that would make it clear that you're probably off track. But if you actually don't have anything against bed bugs, you're just trying to protect humans, that's a different situation. Doesn't mean that's not painful. I also thought, you know, about 35 years ago, I had a little girl who was just born, and I was living with her. And I was sitting next to her crib, and a big rat came running towards her bed.

[17:02]

I did not want the rat to bite her. So I put some obstructions in the hole that the rat came through, steel wool and some other things in there so the rat couldn't come in. I didn't have to kill the rat, actually. I didn't have to kill the rat in this case. I really did not want that rat to bite this little girl. I just wanted to protect her from the rat. I didn't have to kill it. I didn't have to. I felt good that I didn't have to. It was so frightening to see this thing running towards her. And if I couldn't find any way to protect her, the rat, you know, It would be unlikely that I would find no other way, because the rats probably wouldn't bite me to get to her. But, you know, I'm not always around, so the rats running around the room, I might have felt forced to kill the rat if I couldn't stop her from getting in the room.

[18:07]

I didn't have to. And there's rats all around my house, but they don't come inside. They're running all over the yard, but they don't come inside. And there's a cat outside our house, a super hunter. And I let the cat have this relationship with the rats. And then I just go remove the result of the interaction. Yeah, so I'm watching the rat and the cat in the yard a lot. It happens a lot. And I don't kick the cat out of the yard. I don't scare the cat out of the yard. I let the cat come into the yard. But when I see the baby bird, I kind of shoo the cat away from the baby bird, move the baby bird someplace else. Because cat goes after birds, too.

[19:18]

So I'm just telling you an example of struggling with the precept of this is ethical discipline that I'm telling you about. And I'm not always acting in a way that you might think, oh, that was so kind of him. I think you might think maybe he doesn't He's having trouble with the situation. And I say, yes, I am. That's how it seems to me. I'm having a hard time with the... But there's another area that I have more struggle with. And it's been going on now for about 24 years. And I have occasionally thought of killing the gophers. I have had thoughts arise in my mind of going to the hardware store and getting poison.

[20:22]

I've also thought of getting gopher snakes, but for some reason that seemed to be impractical, although gopher snakes do eat gophers, and you can put them down their hole. And then I also heard about putting fish hook. But anyway, I haven't killed any gophers, but Kat does. And they do live all around the house, and they make these big mounds. And then I rake up the mounds and throw the big rocks away and spread them out. And then I put grass on top of the area. And I almost never think of killing the gophers anymore. I even have this positive view that they're buried in the soil.

[21:23]

And they're definitely challenging my practice, my ethical practice, by making these mounds all over the place. And so over the years, antipathy in my heart to these gophers and rarely do I think of killing them. And I don't kill them. And I had this thought also that most people that know me want me not to kill the gophers. They come up to me and say, would you please kill the gophers? And actually, almost no one's come up to me and said, please don't kill the gophers. But when they hear about my problem with the gophers, they don't say, oh, you should kill them. I think they want me not to kill them. I think they want me to find a way to live with them without killing them. And I have found one. And I'm willing to do the work, the extra work that's involved in supporting their tunnel system.

[22:27]

And occasionally when I feel like I'm just going to fall down into the pit, the yard feels so soft, you know. fall in a big hole occasionally, I put more dirt on top of the ground so that, you know, this is something to stand on. But it's not with the intention of killing the gophers. It's just to firm up these big soft areas in the yard where there's almost no dirt there anymore. Just grass on top of vast emptiness. laughter laughter I don't know what to do, but I'll think about it. I don't want to make it hard for you, but... Are you about to? I don't want to make it hard for you, and I'm about to not... I'm going to pass on this thing. I was about to do it, but I can't do it.

[23:33]

May I join this conversation for a second? Yes. And I'm wondering if anybody in the world has experience, why don't you stay here for a sec, with native traditions related to killing animals for food, because I have kind of a weak understanding. but that I have read things recently that the Native Americans who lived out on the, you know, in the deserts or whatever, needed to kill big game for the survival of the tribe. And so they had a very conscious ritual which was effective at embracing the precepts. of not killing, and so they first had a ceremony asking for permission to take some animals for the survival of the tribe, just what they needed. And then they went out and hunted, As I understand it, to thank the animals for their sacrifice for the benefit of the tribe.

[24:47]

So there was this very conscious, kind of goes back to your original statement of we're humans and we need to live for, we need this in order for our survival and that the natural order of things, but they didn't just willy-nilly go out and kill animals for gain or whatever, as maybe Western hunters do sometimes now, just for trophies to mount on the wall. There's an embracing that I am killing, I don't feel good about this, but it is the natural order, and I'm asking permission and giving thanks. I don't want to eat the snail. But you could do a ceremony asking for some sacrifice from the snails for the benefit of your vegetables or whatever, and the benefit of those who derive benefit from the vegetables. Is that a possibility? And then thank them for their sacrifice so that the tomatoes were healthy.

[25:49]

I just got this idea of a snail ranch. They came from the snail ranch. People brought them for food. So you send them, you collect them and ship them back to the snail ranch. The banana slugs didn't come from France, did they? They came from Pell. I think you told us once they were former Zen practitioners who didn't live up to the... Anyway, I just had the thought that there could be a place where you put them, a happy place, and you make it so that they can't get out, but so they live their life there. I had one friend who was a gardener who was struggling with this, and she would toss him over the fence. Yeah.

[26:57]

With the ants at my house, I... They come in at various points, and they come in, you know... They're small, but there are very, very large numbers of them. But these ants are very... willing to go outside. So I put honey outside. and they go outside to the honey. They find, you know, I help them find out that it's there, put it near one of the trails, and then pretty soon there's gazillions of ants around the honey, and then I put more away, and then pretty soon there's millions of ants outside with the honey, and when they finish the honey, they don't come back in the house usually. Because actually, usually when they come in, they don't find anything.

[27:58]

They're just like thousands of them in these lines all over the place. And the house is clean enough, so usually they don't get anything anyway. Occasionally, if there's a mistake, they find something. So they're just really exploring, but their exploration is going to be significant inhabitation. I give them something outside and they find something and they're happy and they don't come back maybe until the next time, the next season or the next time it rains or something. So we try to do this and maybe you could find something like that that you'd enjoy. I actually kind of enjoy going out and smearing honey on the outside of the house. It's kind of fun. Don't hurt the house. I have plenty of honey and ants like it and actually it's fun to redirect them in this non-violent way. But again, in some cases, I can't think of anything. And so I found a thing with the ant that I found a thing with spiders.

[29:04]

I found a thing. But again, with silverfish, very difficult to find anything because you can't really catch them. They're so quick. You can't deport them very easily. So they're difficult to sort out. And they get real close. They go on your toothbrush and stuff like that. They go on your clothes. They go inside the scriptures. They open the scripture and they jump out. So they're difficult. So would a ceremony at Green Welch for the bed bugs sacrifice? I don't want to do the ceremony just to make the humans feel good, but we did... We did the ceremonies. I did ask for ceremonies to be done before and after this room heating trip. And everyone was up for that. And I don't want to just to say, we dedicate the merit of our practice to you who have died in this process.

[30:08]

And we have lots of other indirect deaths that occur in our farming practice of digging in the ground a bird getting caught in nets of other indirect unintentional we don't need to kill the birds but we we know if we put the nets up they some of them might get hung up in the nest even though birds might be killed we still put the nets up so we also do ceremonies for that so this is our It's an attempt to meditate on living beings in a way to create happiness. And not just by anesthetizing humans and making them feel okay about what they're doing, but actually contemplating the suffering of the other animals in a way that creates happiness for all. That's our vow. But it's difficult, isn't it?

[31:12]

Thank you for talking about that. Yes, please come. I don't know if I'm going to do this right. You're doing it perfectly. Who taught you? So what I'm hearing, really, I'm a peace activist, so what I'm hearing is we're talking about very small things. Trying to get is very big things. There's a way, like, to build for people talking to one another, not just bed bugs or slugs. And if you take that concept and make it larger, that would be great. That would be great. Yes. Did you want me to say something? You weren't here yesterday, were you? Right, no. So part of what I think was brought up yesterday was the issue of injustice. And so when we see injustice, and we might feel that injustice, that violence, that cruelty is...

[32:26]

We might feel that it was unjust, or unjust to be cruel. Then how can we be just with cruelty? How can we be just when we observe non-peace, distress, violence, and war? How can we adjust to that as a path to peace? That's our ethical discipline, is to contemplate the appearance of non-peace and injustice in a just way, and to have an ethical response to what appears to be unethical. That's our challenge. One of our basic precepts is not to praise ourself at the expense of others. So we watch to see, when we see injustice, do we think we're more just than the injustice?

[33:31]

Do we think that? And if we do, then we have to be careful of that. Somehow, so from the injustice. So there's a proposal that it's unjust. It's an injustice to separate ourselves from injustice, or to put ourselves above it and look down on it from this position of moral superiority. Moral superiority is proposed in this tradition to be injustice. I wasn't there because it was Yom Kippur, so I was at that temple. And what is the meaning of Yom Kippur? The day of atonement. Yeah, atonement. So actually that's the same thing. But the rabbi spoke about injustice actually to the temple and how it was our responsibility to not allow injustice or be part of the process.

[34:38]

Yeah. Be part of the process. There's one way to put it. Another way to put it is when it appears... Did you say not to be part of the process? To be part of the process. Yeah. So to be part of the process is not necessarily... To be part of the process is maybe to allow it that it seems to be appearing in order to find the gate to enter it. Because if we enter into the injustice, we might be able to enter into the reality of injustice. And if we enter into the reality of injustice, we might realize justice. Not thinking we have the right answer for it. In other words, not believing our opinion is reality. But still, we have to enter our opinion. We have to embrace our opinion to find the reality of our opinion.

[35:41]

When we realize the reality of our opinion, we're free of our opinion. And being free of opinions is justice. with all of us, not just people. Yes, and people who we feel are acting in a way that we have a problem with, that we question, when we don't separate ourselves from them and look down on them, they can listen to us. We can talk to them when we're not looking down on them. We can say, I have a problem here, and that encourages them to start dialoguing with us. And in the dialogue, That's the key, the dialogue. Yeah. I think when the dialogue's really fully functioning, there's no injustice. There's no violence. We're just doing this thing together. It's alive and it's good. It's life. Killing. And there's no stealing.

[36:43]

And nobody's looking down on the situation from above. And nobody's really slandering anybody. And nobody's being possessive. And we're realizing these precepts. But it's hard. We accept our responsibility. We realize that no matter what's happening, we're all responsible. In different ways. But nobody's got all the responsibility. And nobody's got none. Everybody's got responsibility. And so how can we enter Well, we don't have, like, people lying out on the edge of life with no responsibility. And they're just, like, I don't know what, getting pushed around by those who are responsible. Get everybody in together. But that's hard. It's inconvenient for me to be in the process with the gophers. I didn't, you know, when I signed up for having a garden, I didn't say, okay, I'm signing up for an intimate relationship with gophers.

[37:53]

But in fact, they're saying, we love you, we want to relate to you. You know, the king gopher. And so when the king goes away, the gophers, you know, make more loans. They're kind of quiet when the king's around. But not really. She just says that. So, yeah, it's like, okay, you want to do something? Want to have a community? Are you ready for intimacy with not just the people you want to have community with? Not the ones you agree with all the time. Yeah, because a whole bunch of other people are going to come that you weren't expecting. The community isn't just who you want to be there. The floods and the... Yeah, exactly. And then also the... who have strong feelings about, positive and negative strong feelings about all these other animals. Are you open to that? And if so, I say good. And then we don't ever get anything done, but we embrace all beings. And it's really inconvenient if you have any other agenda besides .

[38:59]

But that's what bodhisattvas are about. It's about embracing all beings, not necessarily building a tower or growing a lot of food. We may starve to death. But if we're embracing all beings, it's fine to starve to death. You may embrace a lot of farmers who are growing a lot of food, and you can eat. So you can embrace more beings. So the point is to embrace all beings. And that means embracing some people who are farmers and hunters. So there will be some food, maybe. And they want to give it to us, and maybe we should accept it. Because they want to give it to us because they feel we love them, and they want us to keep living to encourage them. to do good work while they're farming and gardening and hunting and animal raising and bridge building and going to war against other humans. It's them. Yeah, it's hard, right?

[40:04]

Hard to embrace the warriors, especially when they're being told to do things which they don't really want to do. But they're following orders because they think this is Because they love America. Thank you. Thank you. I have some feedback. Okay. About the effectiveness of your teaching. Okay. The last time I saw you was three years ago. And then I came up here to sit on the cushion in my name, and I said, I'm Diane. And you said, so am I. And...

[41:07]

Although I didn't have sudden enlightenment. And we all just laughed because we were talking about playfulness and you were... Those three words have stayed in my heart. And they come to me at most interesting times. And So I just want to thank you for that. You're welcome. Thank the ancestors who transmitted that to us. So I'm gradually understanding what that means. Yeah, yeah, right. You had some sudden awakening, and you're continuing to practice that deeper and deeper understanding in your life. Great. And by the way, you can give me negative feedback, too.

[42:13]

I don't really need the positive feedback, although it does encourage me. But I really need the negative feedback. If I'm on the right track, it encourages me to hear that I am. But if I'm on the wrong track, I really need help. Yes. I heard this from you at Harvard. Donovan. I just wanted to thank you for something you said yesterday that gave me in my mind a possibility of seeing that I could let go of my attachment to my mind, to a Buddha in the making, perhaps. That was marvelous, and I felt really wonderful today. I was in the undertow with you as you told your story, and I had this marvelous sensation of feeling the detachment from my presence, feeling an immediate sense of loss and grief, and then the immediate sense, as you described, of how glorious the life is, which is a new life than the life that had come before.

[43:33]

one of the founders of our tradition. I had this list of these ancestors from yesterday, the names of the ancestors. So another one of them. So this is Yao Shan Wei Yan. His disciple is Yunyan Tangsheng, and his disciple is Dengshan Liangjie. So when Dengshan was studying with Yunyan after having sudden awakening with his teacher at the first meeting, And then after that sudden awakening with his teacher at the first meeting, he studied with his teacher, he practiced with his teacher after that. And then finally he said to his teacher, and he became a successor to his teacher after his sudden awakening.

[44:54]

He practiced with his teacher a long time and became his teacher's successor. And then at a certain point he went to his teacher and said, I'm going now. And his teacher said, Oh, and he said, okay. And then he said, kind of, he asked his teacher for kind of a summary of the teaching. He said, if someone asked me what my teaching was, what should I tell them? And Yuen Yuen said to Deng Chang, just this person is it. And Dungsan just in deep thought and teacher said, you must be thorough going. And then Dungsan left Yunyan and walked quite a long ways. And then he was crossing a river.

[45:57]

And he looked in the and he saw his reflection. And to make a long story short, he had another great awakening. He understood his teacher's teaching when he saw his reflection in the water. And part of the poem he wrote at that time was, He is not me, and I am in fact it, or I am in fact him. So this is kind of like the central meditation of this tradition is, everything you meet, everybody you meet, he is not me. I am the truth, him. She is not me. I am the truth, her. So we sit upright, and we kind of like sit upright with the awareness that the universe is not us. In fact, in truth, the universe is us. This is the person.

[46:59]

is a person who's not other people, but who in truth is everybody we meet. We sit still and upright with that meditation, which has been reiterated generation after generation. this time. But before this guy, going back to India, it was put in other ways. This is just the way his teacher and him worked it out. Just this person, and then he saw himself in the water, and of course that is not him, and of course that is him. See, of course they're not you, and of course they are you. Somehow we transmit this meditation. coming from Dukkha. Try to get everybody to enter this meditation, because this meditation, you know, the unjust one we see, that's not us, but in truth that is us.

[48:05]

That's the true path of enlightenment, is to see everything that way and keep coming back to that awareness wherever we are. Especially when somebody does something very shocking, and it seems like they come up to you and they say, I'm not you! And sometimes the way they say, I'm not you, is they say, you're not me! You know? I don't agree with you. You're bad. Come up to you and say, don't forget, I'm you. You haven't forgotten I'm you, have you? You haven't forgot you're me, have you? They don't often say that to us. So a lot of people are not saying that to us. They look at us like, you're definitely not me. You're the enemy. When they look at us like that and talk to us like that, they go along with it. Say, yeah, you're right. You got me. So it's hard. Is there anything else that you'd like to bring up?

[49:17]

Yes, you may. You may approach the bench. On hands and knees. That would be... You're a good liar? Yeah. You might try that sometime. I have groveled often. I would like to... Thank you, first of all, for your teaching of intimacy. There was a moment when I spoke with you about a text I had received from my daughter saying, Alvarez died. And you said to me, And you said it with eyes of compassion.

[50:27]

And I said, I'm fine. But that was a throwaway line. I was shocked by the intimacy of that moment. And I quickly put it aside. Because of armoring. Or whatever. I'm dying. When Jesus walks, oh, when he walks. When Jesus walks, oh, when he walks.

[51:31]

When Jesus walks, oh, when he walks. He washed my sins away. Oh, happy day. I'm Dutch. We have claws. Yeah, you know, as I've told you many times, I made a big effort to be near Suzuki Roshi, so if he ever wanted to teach me anything, ask me for any help, I was right there. And then when he gave me a chance to be intimate with him, I sometimes wanted to go someplace else. Because it's so intense, intimate, that we're kind of like, not necessarily warmed up for it, So you want to go someplace and sit. I'll come back later for that intimacy, okay? Can I have a rain check on that intimacy? There's a story which I've been wanting to tell you, and now I'll tell you, if you'd like me to tell you.

[52:42]

It's a story about the teaching of Yang, Xiang Yang. So Xiang Yang is the person who was given the question, what is yourself before your parents were born? And then he didn't understand that question for a long time, and finally he understood. With great gratitude, he understood the self before our parents were born. And then he became a teacher and one of his teachings to his monks, a person is up in a tree and she's hanging from a branch by her mouth. Her teeth bite the branch.

[53:42]

but her feet cannot find a branch to stand on, and her hands cannot get a hold of the branch. She's just hanging by the branch, biting the branch, and this tree is growing out of the side of a thousand-foot cliff. Now, if someone comes up down below and calls out to her, what is the meaning of the great teachers coming from India? In other words, what is the meaning, true meaning of enlightenment? To answer, she loses her life and her body. If she doesn't open her mouth, she doesn't respond to the needs of the person to receive the teaching.

[54:54]

What do you do? That's what he asked his monks. And one of the senior monks came forward and said, I really don't want to talk about responding to the question. I'd like to know, what about before she went up in the tree? And Xiangyan laughed loudly. And one of our ancestors comments on this thing and says, please understand, While she's biting on the branch of the tree, at the moment that she's biting on the branch of the tree, or at the moment of biting on the branch and hanging by that, all the Buddhas ask the question, what is the meaning of the Buddha's teaching?

[56:02]

And while biting on the branch, all the enlightened ones, all the Buddha ancestors have answered the question, what is the meaning of the Buddha's teaching? It doesn't mean that sometimes they don't open their mouth and fall to their death. It doesn't mean that if they don't open their mouth, that people might feel they're not answering. It's just that while biting that, they ask the question and answer the question. And I kind of leave you with this story because this is proposed as the place from which the Buddhas ask questions and answer questions. They're right there. They can't do anything other than be who they are. biting on a branch in mid-air. But that doesn't hinder anything.

[57:09]

And it's the same for us. And if you're biting a branch, you can make a good answer like, well, the tree, or many other possible things you could say. But before you say anything, please realize you don't have to say anything to answer the question. And when you realize you don't have to say anything, you may have something to say. But when you realize you don't have to do anything other than what you're doing, then you may have something to do. But before you give up who you are now to move on to answering the question, be who you are now. That's your responsibility now. Later, it won't be. Later, it will not be your responsibility. And it's hard to hang by your teeth, but that's what's going on sometimes. That was his teaching.

[58:11]

The way he put it, his teacher was, watch yourself before your parents are born. This is the way he taught his students. The same with strict teaching is, your responsibility is to be yourself. Nothing is harder. But if somebody needs your help, you don't abandon yourself to help them. You help them from being yourself, even though you're in a position to do anything without killing yourself or not doing what they're asking for. Your job is to be yourself. And if you completely be yourself, this is yourself before your parents are born. This is not yourself according to your idea. This is who you actually are. But at least you have the idea that you need to be yourself so fully that you don't get trapped in your idea of yourself. But you include your idea of yourself.

[59:13]

But you know, I think I'm a nice guy, maybe. Or maybe I think I'm a so-so. I think I'm a below-average guy. Or maybe I think I'm a above-average guy. That's the kind of guy I am, is I think things about myself. But that's not who I am. That's just what I'm thinking. Who am I? I'm you. Then I am me. So I leave you with Xiangyuan's question to his monks. And I thank you all for your wholehearted practice. And I thank Elizabeth and Leon. Alice, Donna, Tony, all of you for supporting this weekend, coming to be here together. And I remind you once more that the bliss body of Buddha is people getting together to use compassion.

[60:21]

What is reality? How can I help my friends look at these questions? And how can I thank them for reminding me to look at them? Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. There'll be no more sobbing when she starts throbbing her oil. Wake up, wake up, you sleepyhead. Get up, get up, get out of bed. Cheer up, cheer up, the sun is red. Live, love, laugh and be happy, though I've been blue now. Through fields of flowers, raining, listen, but still I listen for hours and hours.

[61:31]

I'm just again doing what I did again, singing a song. And new people who anybody didn't pick up, this is a calligraphy of Guishan's question to Yangshan, not these guys. No, it's Tong An's question to Liangshan. What is the business under like a copy right here?

[62:21]

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