I think that kind of the title for this class is Great Compassion in Zen? Something like that? Or another way to put it, maybe, Zen perspective on great compassion. One thing that might be helpful and also challenging is to bring up a suggestion of three types of compassion. First one might be called sentimental compassion.

[01:03]

Second one might be called compassion according to dharma. Third, great compassion. So there's an opportunity here to look at these three types. But before we do, I just want to suggest something that I've been suggesting in various places for a while.

[02:13]

The suggestion is that even though we may not be able to perceive it, everything is calling for compassion. And even though we may not perceive it, everything is listening to those calls. So, for example, even though you may not be hearing me call for compassion, I'm proposing as a meditation, as a contemplation, the suggestion that I am calling for compassion. Not by saying, please give me compassion. You can perceive that, right? And now that I say that to you, I mean, I'm sincerely...

[03:19]

request that you be compassionate to me. And I request that you be compassionate to everybody. And I think everybody wants you to be, even though they may not know it. Matter of fact, even though they might not know it, and even though they may not know that they want it, they're actually calling for it. I recently, not too long ago, had a conversation with this young man who was like calling out to me. And I said to him, I thought he understood. And I was talking to him about this very fact, this very teaching that everybody's calling for compassion. And he really seemed like he was calling for my compassion. He really wanted my attention, you know. Yeah, and he got it. And I gave it to him. And I mentioned to him that he called me for my compassion. He says, no, I'm not. And then he called again.

[04:26]

And I heard him again. And again, he said, I wasn't calling for compassion. Even though, of course, he wanted me to listen to him. And he wanted me to be kind to him. but he didn't think he was asking for it, and then he asked for it again. It was interesting for me. I don't know about him. So, you heard me right. I'm suggesting all of us are calling for compassion. that everything about us is calling for that. And we are also listening to the calls. And I would further suggest that the way I'm calling to you and listening to you and the way you're calling to me and listening to me... Do you want to come in, Charlie?

[05:35]

There's a seat up here, a nice seat up in the front here, which wasn't exactly saving for you, but here it is. If you can get there. Yeah, there you go. Amazing. And another way which I often say is the way we're actually living together is that we're living together and that we're imperceptibly mutually assisting each other. But the way that's the case, the way we're imperceptibly

[06:36]

mutually assisting each other is, for the most part, imperceptible. We do sometimes perceive, like I could ever perceive in perception, somebody assisted me, and also I assisted them. Again, the image of tango dancers, they're assisting each other. They're helping each other do the dance. It isn't done by one of them, although one of them might think that they're doing the dance, and the other person is just sort of tagging along. But really, they're mutually assisting each other, and maybe they could have a perception of that. But even though they may not perceive it and be enjoying the dance without perceiving that the other person is assisting them and supporting them in the dance, they might not even think of that or see that. In fact, that's the case. They are helping each other realize the dance.

[07:45]

And the perception that they may have or not, but let's say the perception they do have of how they're assisting each other is not the way they're assisting each other. That's just a perceptible rendition of it. That's just making the dance into something that can be, that you can put a sign on and perceive. This discussion may be could come back now to the first type of compassion. Which might be, I wish to practice compassion towards something and I might not think that something is practicing compassion with me, towards me. And I might think,

[08:50]

that the thing I'm practicing compassion towards actually exists independent of me. And thinking that things exist independent of me, for me, might be sentimental. It's like, it's a customary way maybe for me to feel that things exist, actually exist, the way I perceive them. And also, their suffering is the way I perceive it. So all day long I'm calling for compassion, all day long I'm listening to the calls, and all day long I could feel like I want to practice compassion towards everything I feel.

[09:53]

I want to practice various compassion practices towards what I feel. And I could do those practices with or without the emotional conviction that my calls actually exist. But if I do practice compassion towards my own suffering with the conviction that my suffering exists, that's a sentimental compassion. So I wouldn't want myself or any of you to What's the word? Pass up on practicing compassion towards everything when you hear about sentimental compassion.

[10:56]

I would want you to... I'm calling you, actually, to practice compassion towards everybody. On their behalf. I'm their spokesperson. I'm your spokesperson. I'm speaking for you. Even though you didn't ask me to. Maybe, did anybody ask me to? One person says yes. I'm speaking on your behalf and I'm saying everybody be kind to you, along with everybody else, because everybody wants it. It's our nature. And we're getting it. We are being listened to with compassion. And therefore I feel it's my responsibility to practice compassion towards everybody. I feel that way because of what I just said, which I trust.

[12:03]

And I would also like to be compassionate to everyone without necessarily leaning into the thought or the belief that they actually exist and that their suffering actually exists. And I wouldn't, again, if I would abandon practicing compassion towards beings, because I thought my compassion was sentimental, I don't think that would be right. That would not be right. But if I could abandon the sentimentality and continue doing, practicing compassion, that would be all right. I don't want to stop trying to offer my compassion and listen to beings and observe them just because I notice that there's a belief that these beings that are calling me actually exist.

[13:17]

And I also feel or think that even if I am noticing that I do believe that the beings that I want to practice compassion towards and I feel compassion towards and I feel that they're asking me to be compassionate, even if I notice that I have this sentimentality, that I have this emotional conviction that they really exist and that their suffering really exists, even so, if I practice compassion, I think I will get over that. Over what? Over the sentimentality and move in to the next kinds of compassion. So I'm getting hot already, but again I'm working hard.

[14:23]

And I'm having a conversation out loud with you, as you may have noticed. I'm having a conversation about reality and our sentimentality in the midst of reality. Did you see me having that conversation? And now I invite you to join the conversation. Yes? So, I hear you saying that if practice of compassion is coming from a place of sentimentality, or if you believe that it's... If you believe in your practice of compassion in that way, if you're stuck on that belief, that that would not be right. Pardon? I hear you saying that it would not be right. I wouldn't say... I'm not saying it's not right. I'm just saying it's sentimental. And I could also... I haven't mentioned yet, but there are certain consequences of the sentimentality, which I wouldn't say aren't right.

[15:41]

I would say they're more kind of sad or unfortunate. That sounds better. Because they're not wrong, it's just that they're not conducive to continuing. The sentimentality is not conducive to the endless practice of compassion. But it's not wrong. It's just the sentimentality undermines the compassion practice to some extent. It doesn't undermine it forever, but sometimes it makes us... Yeah, so what happens sometimes is people are really, really kind to other people. It's very inspiring how kind they are. They're generous and careful and patient and they're honest and so on.

[16:44]

They're very respectful. And they have some sentimental conviction about who these people are and what their suffering is, and who they are and what their suffering is. And they work really hard, and then they have this experience of exhaustion or burnout. And after a while they think these beings that they have been so kind to are sucking the life out of them. And then they want to get away from the very beings that they've been devoted to. They feel like they have to get away from because they're losing their life energy by the way they're practicing with them. So it's kind of unfortunate. But it's not exactly wrong. It actually is. That's how it works. And that's why it's good to become aware of this. But the best way to become aware of it, in a way, is by really practicing compassion as wholeheartedly as you can.

[17:50]

The more wholeheartedly you practice it, the more you'll notice the defect. If you don't care about people, you might not notice that they didn't appreciate your kindness because you didn't give any. Or if you give them little kindness and they don't appreciate it, you might say, I can live with that. But if you really give yourself fully and you have some investment in the reality of the goodness of what you did and the reality of them, then you might have to retire temporarily, at least, from this practice. Even before you have to retire, you might start to notice this leakage that's happening because of the sentimentality around perfectly good practices.

[18:55]

like being generous and being careful and tender. There's no problem in those. Those are good. And once again, if you really get into them, which is great, the more you get into it, the more you'll notice if there's any faultiness in it. And then you can address the faultiness with maybe some more sentimental compassion. And notice that. And more and more, you can actually let go of the faultiness and start to enter into the next type of compassion. Yes, tell me your name again. Michael. Michael? Or Mike? Or Mike. Okay, Mike. Could you describe some other qualities besides exhaustion of sentiment and compassion? Other qualities? Yeah. Well, you might... You might... You might become despondent.

[19:56]

You might become discouraged. You might think, compassion is not for me. I want to get away from these suffering people. Can you have any other words that you care to offer for what that might be like? No, I'm struggling to relate to it. Burnout, exhaustion. Peter? Peter? – Resentment? – Resentment, yeah. You make a gift of some kindness to someone, and you don't feel appreciated or whatever, or you're overdue, and then you feel deprived and disappointed. You might feel that resentment, and you also might feel resentment just that they're even suffering, because your suffering is whacking you out. But it's not really that that's the way it looks. It's not that they're suffering and stuff, because you see them as actually existing over there. You can actually resent their suffering. Yeah.

[20:59]

Yes? Maybe another portrait consequence is that by being sentimentally compassionate, you're sort of on an ego trip, and you're reinforcing that identity of yourself as a real separate thing. This sentinel compassion is compassion mixed up with the ego trip. And again, some people do not know they're on an ego trip, even though they might be. And if you're on an ego trip, it's not really that funny, but if you're on an ego trip and you're mean to people, you don't get burnout. We don't usually think of gangsters as getting burnout. It's when you're being nice to people as an ego trip that you feel like, I don't want to do this anymore.

[22:05]

But if you're exploiting people and you're on an ego trip, then the more you exploit, the more it goes with the ego trip. So that's why, if you're not being kind to people, you just stay on the ego trip, which is natural. But if you practice compassion, you start to feel like, wait a minute, they're not getting better. They're not saying thank you. Here I am giving them all this love and they're getting sicker and sicker. This is not what I wanted to have happen. If you don't get better, I'm going to stop visiting you at the hospital. Wait a minute, there's something funny about that. Something off about that. And then again, I can think, if it's an ego trip, think it's your fault. You're not, you know, you're not going along with my compassion. Ego trips are quite sentimental.

[23:15]

Yes. For me, compassion can't exist without wisdom. They're inseparable. Well, in reality they are, but sentimental compassion kind of does live without wisdom. So the sentimental compassion is not working together with the wisdom. The wisdom, for example, that understands, that's free of ego trip. Great compassion is wisdom together with compassion. But let's not rush ahead to that. Yes. Yes. So I felt like that when I continued to visit my mother repeatedly.

[24:23]

When she was ill, before she died, three and a half years, I was told that she would die in six months. I continued to express my duties towards her. by seeing her and visiting her. But there was this little sense of resentment that I felt. And the resentment that I felt, I felt was wrong. I felt it was my issue. And I tried to... Well, there's something different. I think it was your issue. The resentment is your issue. The resentment, they don't deserve it when you're being compassionate to them. But the other part, I wouldn't say it's wrong, I would say again, that's what Charlie said, it's not really wrong that you feel resentment.

[25:27]

The resentment is showing you that something's off in your compassion. It's actually helpful that you notice the resentment isn't the basic thing. The basic thing is the way you were seeing your mother. and her illness. Well, I was seeing myself in that situation. And the way you see yourself, yeah. And I was not agreeing with that resentment that I felt. I felt it was inappropriate and it was my fault. Yeah, I kind of disagree that it was inappropriate. I think it more was showing you what was inappropriate. What was showing me? I think the resentment was showing you what was inappropriate. How? The resentment was your helper. Helping me? Helping you see that your compassion was sentimental. Of course we don't like to resent our mother.

[26:33]

That's really uncomfortable, but we do. And we should be compassionate to that resentment, and being compassionate to that resentment helps me see the reason, the conditions for the resentment, which is my view of myself and my mother. That's where the resentment's coming from. It's not that you're a bad person. It's that the way you're trying to help your mother gives rise to resentment. And the resentment is actually your helper. Because when you're practicing compassion without the sentimentality, you don't resent these people that you're giving your life to. You don't. You don't resent people when you don't have a fixed idea of what they are. I think I resented being my mother's mother all my life. That's what I was dealing with. Yeah, so you resent that.

[27:35]

But again, that's another thing that we look at and think, I really am my mother's mother. And I know some other daughters who are their mother's mother. And we can even say the mothers train the daughters to think that they're their mother's daughter. The mothers do that, and then the daughters do that with their daughter. It's kind of like a... And you can see that, but you don't have to project that that actually exists, this thing. But how do you leap beyond that to the next level of compassion? Well, by noticing it, you're noticing, this is the part of the work you have to do, is to note, I resent the people I'm devoted to. I don't so much resent the people I'm not devoted to. And so the people I'm not devoted to, I don't run away from. You know, they aren't draining my life. But here's the people I'm giving my life to, and I resent them. It's because of the way I'm giving my life. that causes the resentment.

[28:36]

And if I notice that, and I'm kind to that, kind to my resentment, and also kind to my sentimental views that give rise to it, I will move beyond that. And you can do this work even though your mother's passed away. Yes? Is it helpful at all, or would you say to say that the word conditional could be substituted for sentimental in this case? Conditional? Does that help give insight? I wouldn't substitute, I would just say, yes, it is conditional. So when we say that we give conditional love, we see that we expect something. Yeah, you might say, when I say conditional love, I mean I'm giving love and expecting something. Mm-hmm. What helps me understand this concept is the difference between wholehearted, connected, and care-taking.

[29:47]

So some of us have this connection with an animal, with a dog, a cat. And then, you know, when the dog or the cat gets sick, you have to clean up its poop at the end of its life. And then finally when that animal dies, some people say, you know, it was a labor of love. I would have done it. Forever, it was okay. Because of that easy... Sometimes we have this easier connection with the animal than we do with our mothers, for instance. But to me, that goes way beyond the sentimentality of the love. It's not conditional. It's that feeling, that oneness with the animal. Okay. That helps me. Great. Yes. I definitely agree with the way you've cast this and see the resentment myself in the work that I've tried to do this compassionate, but I wonder if there's maybe something extra.

[30:54]

So the work where I've had to expend the most energy doing this is protecting forests, protecting species. And it hurts me to see places destroyed or species going extinct a thousand times or ten thousand times faster than before humans got here. And it's getting worse and worse and worse. And it seems like nothing I do or anybody in a giant community of people do seems to really slow it down at all. So there's also all of that pain of the situation, not just I don't think it's just ego-related. I think it's just draining. The situation is going backwards so fast. And I believe it. I believe these pieces exist. I guess I'm saying that if you want to work to protect precious things... then, and you're saying, did you say that it wasn't a dream?

[32:00]

No, no, definitely it's a dream. So if you want to work to protect precious life, then there is a path to a way of doing that that's not training. And that is to be sensitive, just like you are, but not have the thing you're sensitive about if you have no sentimentality about it. Then you can keep working. And to think about whether the situation's going to get better, that's okay to think about that, but again, if you get sentimental about that, you get drained. And then you're going to You're going to have to take a break from the work because you have to go rest and recover. Some people don't come back for a long time because they cared in a way, but they cared sentimentally and they felt drained by the work.

[33:05]

So what would it mean to care unsentimentally, without sentimentality, around the extinction of the fullness of life on the planet? Well, it would be similar to caring without sentimentality to the extinction of a loved one, someone you really love. And a lot of people have no trouble being sentimental about somebody they love dying. But some people are unsentimental about people that they really love, that they are willing, they would easily give their life for the person, but the person isn't asking for that, so what they give is their money, their attention, their kindness, their patience, their presence. They do that, and they don't get drained. Now, what I want to make clear, Can you deal with two?

[34:09]

And then two animals, two forests, two trees, just keep expanding it. And every one of them hurts you. Every one of them, when they suffer, it hurts you, you feel the pain. But because you don't separate yourself from it, you don't get drained. Therefore you can continue the work. And you must be able to do this somewhat, because you're continuing. So, you know, if you make the situation more dire, it would be the same. If you make the situation less dire and then you're able to give your care and protection to something less dire, in a way that doesn't drain you, then you've got it. But sometimes people have less dire situations

[35:10]

And they actually are doing it in a draining way, and they don't actually see the drain until the situation becomes more dire. And then they say, oh, there it is. So the direness of the situation is maybe in a less critical situation, you might not notice the drain. I think what you want to do, I'm guessing what you want to do, is you want to keep working to protect life and health forever. It's not like at some point this isn't going to be needed. It's an ongoing thing of protecting life and helping life become the best it can be. And so, again, I often use the example, if I'm in a retreat with a lot of people, and two people want to talk to me, or three people want to talk to me, and I think about, oh, I have three people to talk to, maybe I don't notice that the way I think about these three people I have to talk drains me a little.

[36:32]

I have to see. Simon and Sean and Cole. I think that way. And maybe I don't notice that when I think that way, it kind of weakens me. But if I have to say, I have to see all these people in the next few days, then I feel the drain. And then I realize I can't afford to think that way. But I might not notice that the way I was thinking about meeting people and listening to [...] people, I might not notice that when I think about this person and then this person and then this person, that's sentimental if you're thinking about it. I might not notice that when I think of this person and this person and this person, each time I do that, I get a little weaker. But if I think of 90...

[37:34]

I cannot do this. I have to stop this and just think of Simon, and that's it. Now, if there is another person, okay. But I can't afford to think of Simon and Sean and co. And I know that because when I do it, not just for two, but for 90, I see I will have to give up. So the larger number shows me what I can't do anymore. And you have a really large number, so it shows you what doesn't work, which you might not notice if you were just trying to take care of your garden in your backyard. Which also, the same attitude will burn you out there too, You know, the more you're devoted, the more, in some sense, pure you have to be about your devotion. And so that's one of the reasons why we have big vows, is because they help us see the faultiness of our compassion.

[38:43]

So what you're doing is great, but Sentimentality, I do not want you to be sentimental. And I'm not saying you are, but you probably are. A little bit. And that's going to undermine what I would like you to continue to do. And you can see it. And some people in this room maybe don't have big enough projects so they don't even notice that that's the way they're doing it too. And you won't get burned out because the number isn't great enough for you to see it. But you're basically doing the same thing. All of us are. And we need to keep catching it and say, oh, there I go again, actually thinking that this really exists. And that thought... Once again, I can say, I totally want to help this person, and in order to really help this person, I have to get over the belief that they actually really exist.

[39:50]

If you want to save people, you have to realize there's no people that will help you save them, that will help you work to teach them the same thing. Yes, Nobuko? Yes. In that, I think some of these questions are speaking to how we move from sentimental compassion to great compassion. There even is a continuum where it's one. And I'm wondering if grieving or holding space for the pain that arises from a very you know, real relationships and human needs, you know, for the example of caring for one's mother in illness and death. You know, there's no denying the sentimental compassion and all of everything that will arise within that. And I'm wondering if part of, you know, that I don't want to say maybe transcendence, that we're moving to great compassion.

[40:55]

If part of that is grieving or holding space in a way, or, yeah, maybe holding space for that pain rather than trying to... I don't know if maybe... I see something. So... holding a space where there's some awareness of some suffering, that is a normal part of practicing compassion. Then if in that space, for example, if in that space things change, like my mother is getting sicker, than she was yesterday. And if I resist that, because I think she really was that way yesterday and she is not that way anymore, and I resist it because... And I'm very likely to resist things when I project sentimentality on them.

[42:10]

I resist things changed when I relate to them sentimentally. then grief actually is part of the process of recovering from the sentimentality. And then some people might say, I don't want to grieve, I don't want to get distracted from holding on to this thing by grieving. But actually grieving will help you come into the present where you can take care of this thing better. The grieving is coming because you're holding on to something that's not there anymore. And so the grieving is medicinal. And I can also grieve for all the chances I missed to do certain things because I was sentimental. So grieving is part of being compassionate towards sentimentality. If you're not sentimental, you don't have to grieve, although you might be in close relationship with people who are grieving.

[43:21]

You're not grieving because you actually let things change. You don't need to remedy the fact that you are actually trying to keep things not changing. Trying to keep things not changing is sentimental. give a space to observe that, and then allow the grief to come, it's appropriate to become free of sentimental compassion. But again, somebody's dying, for example, your mother, and then you die. She might even say, you shouldn't be so relaxed about this. Yes, is there any more? Lauren slash Edda. [...] Is that a new one? No, it's my middle name. Edda. Okay, Edda. Yes. Yes, Edda.

[44:25]

I guess like when I'm hearing from you and from what people are saying, how I translate it is it's like kind of like, it's almost, it's like judgment. It's a judgment of the situation. It's a sentimental judgment. Right, so it's a judgment of it being good or bad, as opposed to just seeing it. It's almost as if when you're sad and you're with someone, the friend is trying to fix something or tell you what to do instead of just being with you. So it's almost like a matter of being with the different levels of the situation, like just being with the physical duality or physical part of it, the temporariness of it.

[45:26]

You know, sometimes everyone dies. That's the reality. of life and death and whatnot. And then there's the other level, the reality of what's going on inside of you emotionally in regards to that situation. So then there's that level of compassion. And then, I mean, it's almost a matter of awareness. Like an awareness and consciousness to the different levels of the situation? What would you say? I would say that all of those things that you mentioned are calling for compassion. And in each case, you may or may not be sentimental in your observing of these things. And again, sentimental, you may or may not be seeing them as actually existing out there on your own. But they're all calling for compassion, and it might be that in some cases you're not sentimental, in other cases you are.

[46:30]

And you can be aware of which one's on which, and how the different types work, all that. Let's say I'm taking myself to be an isolated, constricted individual, and I see you as an isolated, constricted individual from that perspective, and I'm like, oh, I want to offer him some compassion, and I offer you sentimental compassion, and you're kind of not receiving it in the way I want you to, and after a while I get burnt out. Or I'm not even receiving it the way you want me to. And that will burn you up too. No matter what I do, by seeing our relationship that way, you get drained. And so I leave? And then I'm like, oh, let's try again. I'd say, maybe it wasn't his fault.

[47:32]

Maybe there's something about the way I was doing it. Right. So I try a different way, but I'm still from this isolated, constricted self. I'm curious, what do you think are the things that will support me in that place, realizing what's going on. Well, again, you're trying to be kind, and you're getting some feedback that there's something about the way you're practicing kindness that's draining you. And you've already gotten theory about what it might be, if you focus. Right? Not that you are, but you think you are. You think that way. Maybe, yes? I was... I think actually the step before is, I don't realize that. Oh, yeah.

[48:33]

But that's the place that I'm coming from. If you don't realize it, but you notice the draining, you know, noticing the draining with compassion, it could lead you to be... relaxed and calm with this draining that's going on. The draining's going on and it's coming to the same place as its view is. It's like the first news, second noble truth. If you can actually be very kind with the first truth that there's some drainage going on here, you'll notice the origination of the draining is coming the way you see me and you. And then you can be kind to that. But now you're zeroing in on the sentimental view. And the resentment or the drainage is what kind of made you say, now you know, so now you know what to look for.

[49:36]

But even if you hadn't heard about it, you might discover and say, well, maybe it's because I was holding on to how things should go. Maybe I had a sense that there was this way and that way, and I felt they really existed independently of each other. Because I did. You might wake up to that. And then don't punish yourself for trying to get rid of that, but be kind to that. And one of the ways to be kind to that, for example, would be just be there completely with it, and don't try to get rid of it. Just like I said, you know, I have to see Simon, Sean, and Co., I forget about Sean and Cole. I just focus on Sean. I don't think about progressing and expanding and doing the next person. Just be with this person. And then notice, is there any kind of drainage or draining just being with him? When I'm not trying to actually finish this conversation. I'm not thinking, well, when is it going to be over so I can see the next person?

[50:41]

I'm not thinking, well, what if this conversation never ends and I have to be with him forever? That's draining him. But if I notice that, I can actually work with that. When you said earlier, I can't think like this... I said it to myself. I can't keep doing this, this is not going to work. And if I haven't experienced another way of thinking or another way of perceiving reality, that's just the way I do think. And so I suppose there's a teaching that's saying there's a different way of being. Yeah. Well, I kind of... Like I see, I can't keep thinking of the next person when I'm talking to this person. You know, I know there's going to be... I know there's other people waiting, but I can't afford to think of them.

[51:45]

What just popped in my mind is, some friend of mine was shopping with one of her friends, and who was about, you know, just had a short time more to live, and she was getting all fussy about... you know, the clothes she was buying, and her friend said, you really can't afford to be doing this. So we're kind of seeing what we can't afford to do. We have other work to do. And the other work is, for example, just to completely be here without trying to get anything. But that's closely related to there's nothing to get. Yes. If I am noticing that I'm getting tired and burnt out of a particular bodily situation, would it be the same situation as with somebody?

[52:50]

If I'm getting tired, that might be an indicator that I'm thinking this situation is really existing. Getting tired is not always due to this kind of sentimentality. Not always. But when you start feeling like, again, discouraged, resentful, blaming people for feeling this way, But just being tired sometimes, all you need to do is rest. And maybe go back and practice compassion in a way that really is good. And there's maybe no drainage, no outflows. You just needed to rest for a while to, you know, go back to work. Okay. Is that enough for tonight?

[53:53]

I have one little thing to say. This person's ahead of you. Yes? I was going to say... Isn't that easy? Yeah. I know somebody earlier today had the same name. I feel like And myself, instead of thinking, like, oh, I have to sleep. I can't think this way if I have to see Simon and Sean. Oh, I just need to flip this brick. What's a property? I think it would be more helpful for me if I was like, oh, I get to see Simon and Sean and Co. and all these people and what, like, beautiful opportunities. Yeah, that would be, that's maybe, that's not so sentimental. That's not, you know, sentimental means, like, it's not customary to see, oh, how wonderful to see them. And it's so wonderful to see them, I have to think about them. It's just a wonder.

[54:55]

It's not like I have to get out to the next person. That's quite a different frame on it, which for me, thinking of seeing all the people, I wasn't thinking that way. So that wouldn't be sentimental for me. Yes? I just, this verse kept coming up for me. In attachment, blossoms fall and weeds grow. Yeah. No, weeds grow when we don't like them. In attachment, the flowers fall. Right. But weeds don't grow. But weeds grow in attachment. In aversion. In aversion they grow. Do weeds grow when you're attached to them? We don't attach to weeds. But is it sentimentality? Is it sentimentality, attachment? Sentimentality usually is attachment to flowers.

[55:57]

People are customarily attached to flowers. And they're customarily not attached to pollution and filth and weeds. That's a customary thing. Now, what if you were attached to the weeds? Well, I think that would be like... Maybe that's attached to suffering. Don't weeds grow when you're in attachment in that sentimentality? Well, the weeds are already growing. It's just that if you don't like them, they grow better. They grow more if you don't like them. They grow anyway. And the flowers fall anyway. But if you're attached to them, they fall faster. Yes.

[57:01]

Does grief exist in dharmic and great compassion? Does grief exist in great compassion? Yeah. No. In dharmic, does it exist in dharmic? No. But it does exist in sentimental. But again, it's part of the medicine for sentimentality. So, sentimental compassion has medicine. And I hope that this conversation is medicine for sentimental compassion. We need to be kind to it. You can even be sentimentally kind to sentimental compassion. It's still part of the process of healing. But grief can also be done... I haven't run into so much that people are sentimental about grieving. A little bit, but A lot of people are just like, they just grieve. A little bit they might think, well, I'm supposed to be grieving this way or that way. But that's not grieving. Grieving the way you think you're supposed to is not what I'm talking about.

[58:07]

Grief, you know... When it's real grief, it's a surprise. It's a gift. It's like, I'm not grieving when I think I should be, and I'm grieving when I think I shouldn't be. It's more like that. It's wonderful. It's medicine. It's liberation from holding on to things that should not be held on to. It's good. But again, thinking, I should be grieving now because my mother just died. That's not grieving. That's sentimentality. And then the grief comes, which was not when you thought it would be or not like you thought it would be, but it's really grief, and it's really good, and it really works, and it's a gift. And receiving it gratefully can be done maybe without sentimentality. It's just a big surprise. Yes?

[59:08]

Can you not also get sentimental about grief? Pardon? Can one not also get sentimental about grief? I just said that. If you think you're supposed to grieve like that, that's a sentimental view of compassion. And I think a lot of us have some sentimental idea about when we're supposed to be crying, and other people have sentimental attitudes towards us when we're grieving. You know, they were not crying, and they'd think, well, how come you're not crying? So then we say, okay, you start crying. So, yeah, people do have sentimental views of grief. Am I talking about grief? as a medicine for sentimentality. And it's not something you're doing. It's a compassion that comes up from your life. Your life says, this is not good, this sentimental compassion is not good. And then this grief comes, and you accept it, and you get temporary relief from your sentimentality. Yeah, it's good stuff.

[60:14]

And I do not induce this kind of grief. I don't say, okay, now I'm going to grieve. It comes from my vitality. It's a compassionate gift from life. I wish it could come up in more ways than just around death and change. I wish it could come up in relationship to our compassion. It would be helpful if it could come up in more ways than it does. Is that clear how it comes up? So is that enough for tonight? Thank you so much for your enthusiastic listening to my cries.

[61:10]

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