I want to make sure you have an ear for faith. Now, can you hear me by any chance, Rhonda? Can you hear me, Rhonda? Doesn't look like you can. Could you move up closer? And Amy, can you hear me by any chance? I can't hear you. Can you hear me? Yeah, it makes it harder. But maybe you can sit up here, Amy, even though you're way up here. Is that okay? Can you hear me, Don? Don? Why don't you come closer?

[01:04]

Jody, can you hear me? When the air conditioning comes on, it's harder to hear, but it does come on. So when it goes off, it'll be easier. But how's that? Is that better? Can you hear better? Rhonda, can you hear me? How many people were not at Friends Meeting House last night? As I said last night, I think I would guess that many of you are interested in the world being transformed in a positive way.

[02:15]

Anybody that doesn't want the world to be transformed in a positive way here? And I think that the world has been transformed in positive ways. I've seen the world changed in positive ways, ways that I feel are positive. But I've also seen the world change in negative ways in my lifetime. Have you? Like, you know, these Burmese monks were... That seemed good. They were protesting against cruelty, I guess. That seemed like a positive change, that they were asking for positive change. Requesting positive change seems like a positive change over not requesting positive change, to me.

[03:23]

But then the government crushed them. That seems like a negative change. Does that make sense? It seems that way anyway. And they were non-violent, as far as I know, pretty non-violently protesting. Is that right? Does anybody know? Is that the story? They weren't violently protesting. They were non-violently protesting. And then they were violently responded to. So now, not only was that a painful thing, but now people are probably afraid to express themselves in Burma. So I see positive change in that. I see what looks like benefit in the world, like, you know, sometimes

[04:28]

I see lands and waters protected, and then I see lands and waters exploited. I see people protected and encouraged and appreciated, and then I see people exploited and unappreciated. I see this in the world, and it seems like an ongoing situation basically from beginningless time. I see people, for example, I see people abusing women. And I've seen that for, it seems like it's been going on a long time. For men and women to be abusing women. Of course, men get abused too, but I live these days to how men oppress and abuse women. And how that goes so nicely with war. and how war goes so nicely with abusing women.

[05:35]

They kind of go together nicely. ...cared and crazy from murdering each other, and then when they come out of the war situation and they start relating to women, all that violent energy and trauma's in them, so then they freak out at home, you know, and beat up their wife and children. And all this stuff I see, all this negative change, but I see positive change too. I see some people non-violently, skillfully standing up and making positive contributions. And so part of the theory of Part of the theory which I am trying to practice, put into practice, is the theory that the world, the way the world is, by the way living beings, not just humans, but any conscious living being, and living beings are conscious beings, cognitive beings,

[06:55]

the way their minds function, the activity of their mind, the patterns of their mind, have consequence. And this is a key ingredient in what the Buddha taught as right view. Right view is that action has... And by action, the Buddha meant cognitive patterns. The activity of the mind has consequence. The world that we live in is the consequence of cognitive activity, of each of our cognitive activity, all of our cognitive activity, and not just human cognitive activity. And there can be explanations of this, but for starters I'll just say that, which I said last night also.

[08:04]

And cognitive activity has these three dimensions. Thinking in the mind, that's the basic type. Verbal expression, of this cognitive pattern. So verbal expression that's really cognitive expression through the voice is the type of verbal expression that transforms the world and creates the world, creates the world. Yeah, verbal expression means language, you know, it's intentional, it's cognitive. Coughing doesn't really have moral effect to speak of. It doesn't form worlds, even though it makes a sound. But the kind of sounds that come out of your mouth that are coming from your cognition, they form, they can form worlds and transform them.

[09:10]

And they can transform them positively or negatively. And also your postures, your hand postures, your leg postures, facial postures. they come from, when they come from your thinking, when they come from the patterns of your consciousness, they have the consequence of forming worlds. So if our thinking is the thinking that goes with hearing the true Dharma, when we hear the true Dharma and see the true Dharma, our thinking is a certain type of thinking. Just seeing the true Dharma itself, my understanding is that it doesn't really change the world. It is a change in the world, it's an event, but its consequences don't necessarily transform the world.

[10:17]

What transforms the world is the cognitive pattern around that vision. The karma or the The thinking of the person who is illuminated transforms the world at that moment. And the thinking of one who is not illuminated also transforms the world. And those whose minds are not illuminated, they can make positive and negative transformations of the world. You don't have to be enlightened to make positive transformations. It's just that when enlightened, all your contributions are positive. When you're not, some will, some won't. And it's somewhat mechanical about the way it works. But the liberating potential of your karma or your

[11:19]

becomes manifest when your mind and body and speech are illuminated by hearing the true Dharma. Once again, I can go into more discussion of how this works, but to get practical right away, before going much further, what I'm recommending, has been recommended in the past, is to endeavor to live wholeheartedly. In living wholeheartedly, we realize the true Dharma.

[12:32]

Living wholeheartedly, we realize the truth of the way things are. We realize the ultimate truth, the liberating truth of the way things are. And then we continue to be, we may continue to be living, and living we continue to think and have cognitive activity. Cognitive activity is illuminated by the truth. which and the truth has been allowed into our life by living wholeheartedly. So then how do we live wholeheartedly? Basically, open up to everybody. everybody that you meet, everybody that you feel.

[13:41]

Open up to all beings in your own mind and body. Open up to all beings in your total environment and treat them all with kindness, every single one. And the kindness means first of all being generous with every event, every being, every being, every person. Really, really, really generously, joyfully give things to themselves. Be gentle, peaceful, honest and upright with everything. And this is a function to become wholehearted. And in that practice, in that wholeheartedness practice, we will open to, you know, meet the Buddha and receive the Dharma.

[15:00]

of the Buddha. And then our contributions to the transformation of the world will be fully realized, will be the best that they can be. So that's a summary of last night and And I, as part of Wholehearted Living, I invite you to participate in the teaching and to make contributions. of statements, expressions, questions, feedback to the process here. Again, I share with you the definition, which is one definition is that part of the output of a process that becomes input to the process.

[16:15]

Another definition of feedback is Valuative comments on something. So I welcome your feedback, expressions, questions, and I invite you to come up here and sit here, close to me, and either face me or face the group. Did you raise your hand? Yes, please, come up. And you can use this if you like. You sit here. Was my back to everyone? Or you can turn around, and if you want to talk to them, you can sit here. I get to sit here. Would you like a Zafir? Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. I really appreciate this teaching about being wholehearted.

[17:27]

And I had a situation this summer where I was involved in a conflict with someone and my after all the going back and forth was to be wholehearted, I thought, and they rejected it. And my question is, They rejected something... They rejected my wholehearted response. Okay. They were actually angry about it. Then what do you do? You mean... When they push you... If what comes to you is a rejection? Mm-hmm. So somebody, yes, somebody expresses... Maybe somebody says to me, I reject you. So, I don't know what you do, but the instruction is open up to it and be generous towards that rejection.

[18:32]

and be tender with the rejection, and be harmonious with the rejection, and be honest about this is a rejection, and be upright with it. Which, again, means it isn't that you stay upright with it. It means I believe that it's really true that this is a rejection. I see this as a rejection, and it really is a rejection. Now, upright with rejection means this seems to be a rejection. And that's what I think is going on here. The person says it's a rejection. It looks like a rejection. That's what seems to be going on. But I don't really believe that. This is just a story of what's going on. But also, don't really believe it means, I don't say, that's not a rejection. It's really an affirmation. You don't lean away from it and make it into something else. You don't lean into it and say, that's reality.

[19:35]

So that's what you do. That's the practice when you are experiencing rejections. Is it the leaning into it? Because I experienced a lot of pain around this because of the reaction I got. So is that my pain a result of leaning into it instead of being upright? Not necessarily. Somebody rejects you in the form of punching you in some sensitive area of your body. then it's actually, it might be healthy that you actually feel the pain so that you could, you know, tell them to, you know, maybe hit someplace else where it doesn't hurt so much. So it doesn't necessarily mean that you're leaning into it. Can you give an example of leaning into then, if that isn't leaning into it? Well, like right now, you seem to be sitting here talking to me, asking me these questions.

[20:42]

I have this story of this, and that is going on, but my story of it is not what's going on, because Catherine has a different story. Eric has another story. Each of you has a different story about what we're doing here together. Some of you may have a different story than what I just told. But you may also kind of all agree with it, but none of your stories are what's going on. Now, I can make a story, I could tell another story, which is still a story, is that you and I are enacting our total love for each other in this conversation. But you might say, no, I don't think so. I don't really totally love you. I love you a little, but not totally. Are you putting me on the spot? See, that does... That's a possible story. You see? It's a possible story that... I don't know if you... Do you have that story?

[21:44]

Do I have... The story that I'm putting on the spot, do you have that story? No, I was just teasing. See, I didn't know. I had a possible story that she had that story. I can make one up. I know you can. What's the one you have right now about what's going on? Well, is he asking me if I love him 100% or is he asking me if I love him 25%? Oh, my gosh. Oh, yeah. Cool. What's my answer here? Yeah. I didn't think I was asking you to make, you know, to actually sign up for one of those. I was just saying that I could have a story of what's going on. We're actually always... That's also what I said last night. I say, in my opinion, what we really are is we're generous beings. And I mean big time, like with everybody, close to everybody, nonstop. And Buddhas wake up to that way that we are with each other.

[22:49]

They tell us, you guys are all generous, but you don't get it. So I could tell another story like that, like you totally love me and I totally love you and that's another story. But that story still isn't really, that wouldn't really be what we're doing. Even if that's true, it's still just a story of the truth. But sometimes we make stories which aren't, you know, and you can say, well, it doesn't The story, though, that we're totally gracious and generous with you, it's kind of a pleasant story. I would say, I feel that. But somebody would say, I don't want to be totally generous with Reb. That would be hell to me, somebody might say, I suppose. But to me it sounds like a pretty nice story, but it's still disturbing. But we tend to believe our stories of what's going on, and that's leaning into them. The believing of the stories.

[23:50]

It's believing them in the sense of thinking that my story of you is you. But my story of you isn't you. Even if I tell a story which you think, well, that's actually pretty close to what I am. Your story of you isn't you either. My story of me isn't me. So none of our stories are actually what's going on. However, they are our Our stories, even though our stories are not what we are. And our stories have consequence, all of them. And the consequence will generally be, according to the theory, the consequences will generally be more obstructive and more hindering if we're not being very compassionate with our storytelling.

[24:52]

If we're leaning into it and being rough and lying with our storytelling, then the storytelling will degenerate and cause more and more destruction. If we practice generously with our stories and all of our experiences within the storytelling, that realizes wholeheartedness. Thank you. It was very helpful. Good. Nice story. You can take this one here. OK. I also appreciate very much this teaching of wholeheartedness.

[26:08]

Can you hear him? I also appreciate this teaching of wholeheartedness very much. I feel like I need a lot of help to do that in many situations. Thank you. Were you fixing my posture or were you helping me? Or you said you wanted some help, so I gave you some help to sit up straighter. Thank you. You're a tall guy, but you're about an inch shorter than your height right now. Yeah, there you go. Look. My daughter one time was at the dinner table, and I adjusted her posture. I don't get to do it very often, and she said, my God, the table's so far away. Yes, Mark. Thank you. You're welcome. But, you know, especially last night during your talk, you know, some things really occurred to me that have occurred to me before.

[27:10]

But it was just kind of like really in my face that in a lot of situations when I'm trying to. And like Ranigan suggested, you encounter mean people. You encounter mean people. She didn't say that, but you're bringing it up. I'm paraphrasing a little bit. It's my story. Interesting paraphrase. Well, my story of them is that they're being mean to me. Okay. And it causes me to shut down, I believe. And I find that more and more, I run into a bunch of situations because it doesn't feel good. And I was reading the Buddha's words one day, and it I certainly will have to paraphrase this.

[28:17]

But essentially, the interpretation I took away from it, the words had to do with the fact that it's a good thing not to hang out with mean people. Or people that, not mean people, but people that are not Bad people. And I know bad people. Again, that's a paraphrase. But people that do not support your practice. And you're probably very familiar with that passage that I'm referring to. So there's a difference between, I think the last thing he said was, it's recommended to hang out with people who don't support your practice.

[29:24]

Right? Right. That's different from not to hang out with a certain type of people. Because for some people, violent people, for example, they might support some people's practice. Some bodhisattvas' practice might be encouraged by difficult people. But I think the Buddha is saying if you're with some people and you feel when you're with them that you're practicing, falling apart, that you're not able to practice with these people, it might be good to go away and get back in touch with your practice if you can't practice with these people. So it's kind of like, it's not so much the people, but are you able to practice with them? And so they... Are you able to see that they're supporting your practice?

[30:27]

And if not, it might be a good idea to go someplace where you can feel like you're with people that are supporting your practice. So you feel like, okay, now we're practicing. And later you might be able to go back and be with people that are supporting your practice. Like with these people, I just can't practice patience. It's too advanced for me to be patient with these people. I notice that I'm on the verge of, with these people, I'm on the verge of hurting them. And these people, I notice I just consistently, or it seems too difficult for me to be generous. So I need to go someplace. I need to go away, take a break from this. This is too advanced. These people, I'm not practicing basic compassion with these people. So I probably should get out of there and stop hurting them, go away and not hurt them, because I'm not being patient and compassionate with them and generous.

[31:29]

So go be with some people that I can be kind, I can be compassionate, I can be generous with. And then maybe someday later, these people won't be too advanced for you. And then you can go back. These people's behavior might be pretty much the same, but now you can practice with them. So the Buddha did sometimes hang out with people which nobody could hang out with. But then he said, you see, the Buddha is talking to different people at different times. So he's looking at these people and he said, you people should stay away from those people because you people can't practice with those people. These people are too advanced for you. But they're not bad people. They're just people that you can't be kind to. So if you can't be kind to somebody, disqualify yourself from the relationship temporarily. But it's not that they're the bad people.

[32:32]

It's that you don't have the skill to deal with this horrible challenge that they're giving you. You know, I hate you, Mark. That's really advanced for you to let go. Oh, can I have a question? You know? To come back with open-heartedness to... certain extreme forms of energy is very advanced so i think the buddha would say this is too advanced for you go over there and hang out with those people you know and then when your practice gets stronger come back here and work with these guys who are really tough almost can be kind to these people but some people can actually some people it's easier to be with these people that you find really super challenging and it would be hard for them to be with people that you might find not so difficult it depends on your karmic background so I think it is good to know when some situation is too advanced and to take a break

[33:53]

and go away until you can come back and make a positive change. I think that Buddha would recommend that. There's no point in going into some situations to advance and then you making it worse. Right? Well, that's where I think I was confused. I mean, I was confused because initially I took a lot of comfort in that passage because I felt like, okay, it's okay to run away. And, you know, to tell you the truth, I felt better not being around, just avoiding these type of people. When you do try to make an effort with them to address some sort of conflict, even if it's minor, and they turn you away time and time again, it's kind of like...

[34:59]

Maybe it's best if I just leave that person alone and stay away from that person. That person has an issue with me. Maybe, maybe. But maybe it would be better if you didn't leave the person alone and if you actually showed that person love before. That would probably be really good. If this person hasn't seen any love for like 10 years, it would be nice if you could show them some love. But it may be too advanced. And that's part of the reason why some people haven't seen love for a long time, is that they're so challenging that almost anybody that can meet their karmic situation with love. So without that assistance they just degenerate in one way and accelerate the challenging quality of their being they get harder and harder for so but it's better for you to go away than to stay and contribute to their to their I don't know what their to hurt them and hurt yourself that's better and come back later because it isn't is sitting there

[36:22]

as an opportunity for you someday. But today may not be the day. If somebody is there and nobody's been able to help them, then maybe you won't be able to either. But this person, these people you're talking about, these are, from the Buddhist point of view, objects of compassion. And if I can't feel compassion for them, I probably should go away and develop my compassion and then come back again later. I think I'm ready to meet this very challenging object of compassion. And that's good that I do that because if I don't, I'm kind of making a mistake. It's a mistake to try things that are too advanced. How's that?

[37:25]

That's good. Thank you. Even your own children advance for you. You know? And you should say, okay, right now this child who is my dear child, I'm just not up for dealing with them. They're just... Got to get somebody more skillful to take care of them. This doctor, I think he was an eye surgeon, and his daughter needed eye surgery. But for him to give eye surgery to his daughter was too advanced for him. Does that make sense? Because he... couldn't be compassionate towards his own daughter. You say, he loved his daughter so much, okay, but he couldn't be, he couldn't be upright.

[38:33]

He couldn't be upright with his own daughter because he was so afraid that, you know, he'd be so afraid that he would hurt her. He'd be so afraid she's hurt, he couldn't be upright. So operating on his own daughter's eyes was too advanced for him. And the same operation he could do with somebody else's daughter, because there he could be upright. So he gets his friend to do the operation, because his friend is just as skillful as he is, but actually more skillful because his friend isn't so afraid. So compassion isn't just like, I love you to bits, it's also like part of compassion is being balanced with people and not leaning into them and sucking them, you know, dry with your love. So, you know, too advanced can mean too advanced for somebody you totally love around them sometimes because you can't leave them alone.

[39:43]

You know? Sometimes a mother or a child has to be taken away. They have to be taken away from each other. The child can't leave the mother alone. So she should go hang out with her aunt. And with her aunt, she doesn't pester her aunt. You know? But with her mother, she's... And vice versa. Some mothers are too much for their kids. They should be taken away and be cared for by their aunts and uncles because they're too concerned. Their own children are too advanced for them sometimes. So you have to be aware of that and disqualify yourself when you're not up for doing it properly. I can't be balanced here. I'm not the person for this job today. Give me another job. and you can go do something else where you can be balanced. So, I'll do this, you know, I'll do eye surgery, or vice versa. Okay? Catherine?

[40:46]

I'm sorry. I can sit this way. But if you can't hear me, I'll turn it off. I'm struggling with a story. Yes. In relation to the retreat. Yes. Which is two years ago. Can you hear her? No. Just try to speak up. Okay. Well, I was trying to speak to the ceiling. Two years ago, when we first did a retreat here that was kind of as formal as this, and Reb asked me to take care of the zendo, there was some impatience and lack of effort to help people practice with the forms, especially the chanters and bell ringers.

[42:08]

Did you hear what she said? No. You should sit back there. Yeah. Or sit right up here. Oh, ran again. Just ran. I meant just one as opposed to 30. I could move if it was 30. So are you saying that you had a feeling like you weren't upright? Well, yes, I caused some distress to other people through my anxiety to have everything be just right. Mm-hmm. And I believe last year I had that role again, and it went much more gently, as far as I know, for people. Yes. And this year... I mean, yes, I hear you say that. Yeah, right. This is the story that I have, yes. And this year, you asked me to just... not take that role. And I feel a little confused about what my role is, as some people have still already have asked me for information or instruction or things like that.

[43:14]

And I'm ill at ease, I guess, with not knowing. Last night I tried to say, oh yeah, not knowing is most, oh no, this morning, not knowing is most intimate. It's okay to not know, but it feels uncomfortable to me when someone asks me for information or something, and I could give it, but I don't ask to give it by you, so I'm in this kind of confused place. And at points, it's painful to be in that confused place, right? And at other points, like at the beginning of the talk, when I thought, oh, I can, that's, but then the story comes back. So I felt it might be helpful to come forward and express it. Okay. And to hear some response to it, please. And you want some response too? Let's see, there's different parts.

[44:22]

One part is if people ask you for something that I didn't ask you to give them, in some cases I think it's fine for you to give. Want to give one example? Somebody who's going to be a chant leader, for example, asked me if we would have an opportunity for chanting practice. And in the past, I would have just set that up, but you didn't ask us as a group to do that or ask me or anyone else to do that, so I wasn't able to. So in that case, in this case, And I think in other cases too, if they asked you to give them chanting instruction during this retreat, I would like you to actually come. Someone has requested for me to do chanting practice with them.

[45:24]

And then I might say, like actually I would say, my first response was, I don't really particularly want there to be chanting practice during this retreat. That's how I feel. In this particular example, I'd rather have you guys not be practicing chantum during the retreat. I'd rather have the person try it and see how it goes. And if somebody doesn't want to do chanting, to lead the chanting, I would say, well, maybe some other time. And I'd like somebody to do it who'll just do it, rather than we have chanting practice going on for some people during this retreat and the other people are not. It's a little busier than I'd like it to be in this particular case. So in this case, If I asked you to do chanting practice, that would be different, but I actually don't want anybody to be doing chanting practice one-on-one during the retreat.

[46:30]

That's my feeling for this time. So that's an example. I don't want to take away the not knowing, because I think that's still there. Somebody asks you to do something and you don't know exactly if it's good or not. Well, it isn't that if you come and talk to me, then you're going to know, but it's just that you don't know, and so you talk to me and you continue not to know, but you're sharing the situation, so you're not doing it alone. If you know, then maybe then you think, well, I don't have to talk to anybody about it, because I know this is good, or I know I've been asked. So in some ways, I think this particular example is really a good one because if somebody had asked you to give them chanting instruction and you thought you knew that that was a good thing to do and then you had just gone ahead and done it, that would have been probably a wholesome thing.

[47:32]

Does that make sense? Pretty wholesome thing. But this way, I think the way of you coming and talking to me and including me in it makes it more wholehearted. Plus, it's also possible that all the chanting practice between you and that person would be wholesome. Someone else might observe it, and it might be a distraction to them. They might say, well, how come I didn't get chanted? Maybe I'd like it too, but I don't know. Did she just offer it to that person? You know, all kinds of stuff like that could happen, which might actually be sort of unwholesome. Or, you know, it might be a situation where it's hard for somebody else to look and one of the other people with Chantley would say, well, why wasn't I asked? You know? And then that's... You know, they can't, like, be generous towards the thing which is sort of... So it's not so clear that in the whole picture that it would be beneficial. But you're not knowing, I think, is good because that led you to, like, express yourself on this and

[48:39]

to share with people that not knowing is kind of unfamiliar for most of us. Usually we think, well, I know you know how to brush my teeth, right? Yeah, give me a break. I know how to brush my teeth. Not knowing how to brush my teeth, give me a break. Of course I know how. Well, that's not really whole brushing teeth. Well, what is brushing teeth anyway? That's more, you know, Wow. And who's brushing the teeth? Am I not actually doing this by myself? Yikes. And the transition from wholeheartedness where you know what's, you know, I know this story. I know what's going on to wholeheartedness. It's like the transition from knowing to not knowing. So this is a Ask a moment of instruction. It's okay to ask instruction for how to deal with these things, but it's nice if once you get the feedback that you don't flip from not knowing over into knowing.

[49:48]

If you can continue to practice the not knowing even after you share the question, I don't have a problem of giving some feedback into the situation, but the next time somebody asks you for something, you kind of go, I don't know. So the other examples were more like informational. Yeah. And I answered. Could you give an informational question? Well, Amy asked if we could figure out the people that would have to send those jobs so she could figure out the kitchen jobs. And so I wrote it down for her. She wanted to know the people who were... When people would be working in the send-off, so she'd be able to assign our kitchen work. And so I did write that down for her. So that was... Yeah. So if you'd asked me, if I was right there and you say... If I was right nearby and you say to me, is it okay if I write down the people?

[50:49]

I probably would have said, mm-hmm. But in an instance like that, would you like me to look for you and check with you if there's another sort of informational question or... Would you like to give me another example? Well, let's see. What is the other information? One of the chant leaders was asked to write a down for one of the other chant leaders to sequence up events, and she wanted me to look it over and make sure that she, because she wanted to make sure. Oh, yes. That writing down from what we went over in the group. I remember one of the chat leaders asked for it to be written down, and I said, why don't you ask this other chat leader to write it down? Right, and then the other one came and asked me. So we went through it and wrote it down. I think that was all right. I mean, to find you when such a question might... Maybe no one asked me any more questions. Actually, I think...

[51:50]

that it would be best to come and find me. Okay. Because it's more wholehearted. Well, I'm happy to come. You see that it's more wholehearted for her to come and talk to me? You don't see it? It's okay. Saying that you don't see it is more wholehearted than not saying it. I agree. Okay. I'm ready to face the outside. So Catherine gets requested by somebody to look over what she wrote, okay? And she can just look at it and so on. But to say, just a second, I'm going to go talk to Reb about whether he wants me to be doing this. Do you see that it takes more effort? It seems like a false dependency, and I'm not sure what that's all about. A false dependency? A false, a false... You could be in the room writing down an exam for somebody.

[52:55]

That's what's happening, but I'm having trouble... Okay, let's go over it again. Somebody says she wants something written down this morning. I said... Ask this other person who's doing it to write down for you. Okay? This person writes it down. We worked that out. This person writes it down. Ask Catherine to check it. Okay? Catherine can check it. And they can go forward. You okay so far? You are? It's up with the needing permission from you to kind of do it that way. I don't... It's a detail. Get it. Maybe because I don't like that kind of detail, but I'm not getting that. Well, let's see. The person who asked Catherine was kind of also asking for permission.

[53:57]

Do you see that? She was asking for support for what she wrote. Is that okay with you? Yes, actually, in my asking, I'm like making less here. I thought it was interesting. Okay. I don't know. I'd like to follow up. And just now, just now, Catherine asked if she could say something. She didn't just say it. Now you can say, why does she have to ask you? I can just let this situation go and you'll see what happens. But she asked me, okay? She's including me in responding to you. That's the other way, but she did it this way.

[55:03]

And I say, yeah, go ahead. So I noticed that Jane said that I had to ask for permission. And I didn't actually feel like I was asking for permission, although I was asking for clarification of what was requested of me. And I'm used to the practice of bringing such questions to Rep as our teacher and also to other people who are like peers or other people in between my level, Rep's level, too, just as you said that the other champion was a... to check, like, do you think it would be a good idea if I take a run after lunch or whatever it might be that I think is a question that I would not be running into. But, you know, so there's a kind of practice that I'm accustomed to because reps taught so much of me that in that space to include others in a place where there's a question.

[56:09]

And to remember that there's a question. To remember that I don't know. And I have habitually, as people might know, I do know. And I could do it wrong, but at least I, you know, I'm ready. But it's really helpful to be asked to stop and check in so it's kind of more like checking in but I'm in the relationship with where if you said I don't think that's a good idea I would said I think that's a good idea I would so but that's not exactly I could do something different from what he says and then I would have consequences emotionally before I confessed it you know more active does that make sense does that feel a little more spacious oh yeah And also, originally, the person who asked for the instructions to be written down, they wanted them written down because of the details.

[57:15]

They wanted the details. On the other hand, I was talking to Mark, and Mark was talking about the bells, and we were talking about when to raise some different bells. And he said, yeah, probably either way would be fine. Nothing disastrous would happen. And I agreed. So I didn't, you know. But it was good to do the chanting. I wanted it to be clear. She wants more details to be clear. So then I referred her to somebody who knew a little bit, had a little bit more experience, and also knows how to write. But then that person was requesting details. That person wanted her description to be detailed. And also, that person wrote a dedication for the noon service today. But I asked her to write it. She wanted to do the service, so I asked her to write the dedication. But then I asked her to show it to me.

[58:18]

She did, and I gave it back to her. I said it was fine. You see, part of what I'm talking about with you is being wholehearted. And I said last night, which I didn't say this morning, I was going to do it more later, when you're wholehearted, you have to do it together. You can't wholeheartedly do the chant by yourself. So this is an enactment. You can call it false dependency, but you can also say this is what it's like when you do things together. And the teacher is a potential item in the picture to enact togetherness. You can put somebody in that position to do the ritual of doing things together. And so this is an example of doing things together. Did you want to come up here, please?

[59:22]

Good. I think I still have my story of Jade's question. Well, I guess partly maybe of who Catherine is, too, that I was hearing The question behind the question from Catherine was, what sort of role do I have? What sort of discretion do I have versus what kind of thing do you want me to check with you about? We all check in about everything. This is where the sort of idea of dependency or of something that kind of slows people down was hitting me. Like being new to the silent retreat and coming from a sangha with different practices, I have genuinely been... What sort of things I needed to check on and with you, for instance. So it's a live question for me as well.

[60:26]

And, you know, like the conclusion I've drawn so far is I can leave walking meditation and go to the bathroom without checking. But, you know, if I were going to leave the retreat, I would check. Right. And things could change my mind about that. talking about everything even though there's important things about the retreat and your vision of the retreat so it felt to me a little bit like you were answering the examples but not the other question and that that would set up a situation where indeed nobody might as well ask catherine anything because everything big or small would go to you. And so I guess when Jane spoke, I was sort of having the same sense of that the answer wasn't seeming like the answer to the form of the question, though that's not the way Catherine exactly put it. That's my story. So what do you think is the most important form of the question, your story?

[61:30]

Uh... My story ventriloquizing Catherine without her permission. Okay. What is Catherine's role at the retreat? What use of her expertise are you expecting she would make, but what sort of thing do you want her to check with you about? Okay. So I think I told Catherine all this. I told Catherine beforehand that I did not want her to be in a position where her expertise would be used. I told her that beforehand. However, because in two past retreats she had a certain role, there is the possibility, and it's now manifest in her questions, even if she's not pointed to as having the role of being in charge with the Zendo. Okay? Such as a different role, which we discussed before the retreat started, that her role would be different.

[62:36]

But people asked, some people asked, but, and I didn't say, before the retreat was over, started, leave Catherine alone. Yes. At Zen Center, when I used to be the abbot of Zen Center, okay, after I stopped being abbot of Zen Center, when I was abbot of Zen Center, people asked me to that role. When I stopped being abbot, and there was another abbot, people kept coming to me and asking me the questions they used to ask me when I was abbot. And... Go talk to the abbot. Of course, I have some response, but if you keep asking me, that person's never going to feel left out. In this case, I didn't make a successor to Catherine, so it's a different situation, but I didn't think it was necessary.

[63:40]

And also, because there's not a successor, I think she's receiving some questions which she might not receive if there was a successor. So maybe it would have been possibly, I don't know what, simpler if I had somebody else be for the job. But it didn't work that way. And in my mind, I'll let you know in a few minutes that there's a successor. And you should ask that person all those questions. But I think that actually the way it's worked out, that you can see inside. the way things work and how we do things together and what we check out with each other and let each other know. But for me, it's like if you are in the room and you go out and you come back, you know, that's fine with me.

[64:49]

If you go out and don't come back and don't tell me, then I wonder, well, where is she? I feel responsible for you during this retreat. You may feel responsible. I think you are. And if you felt so, be fine with me. But I feel responsible for all of you, so if you're in the room here or in the kitchen, then I feel like, hey, I see. But if you do something and go away from the events and I don't know what you're doing, then I should find out. So I ask you to let me know. It's not because you get my permission. It's because I care about you and I feel responsible to you, and I'm not the only one that does. But I think other people, although they feel responsible for you and are concerned for you, they wouldn't know about what's going on with everybody in the retreat. So I need you to tell me about yourself and tell me about others so I'm well informed so we're taking care of each other.

[65:52]

It's not permission. Even if I didn't agree, you could still do it. But to tell me, I feel included. It's an inclusion thing. And to learn how to do that is a big part of learning how to be wholehearted. And for a lot of us, it's a big learning. I mean, what could be bigger than learning to be wholehearted? You going to go cook us lunch? Could you hear that? She added two names to the afternoon dinner preparation, so she requests that you look up the sign-up sheet to see if you're one of those two people.

[66:58]

Yes, Donna? Donna? Yes. I'm going to face you. I wanted to confess that I'm the one who asked Catherine for help with the chat. I also realized that the reason I asked Catherine, well, there are several reasons, but we were in here and you were giving instructions. Why didn't I ask you? And I realized that I have a problem with asking the person in charge, perhaps. not just in this situation, but in work life and other situations.

[68:03]

So I feel I missed an opportunity to ask you directly, and I apologize for not... I don't know if I would have trusted myself to just ask you directly at that time if I could have help. But I also, well, the other reason I asked Catherine was when I was at the retreat last year, she taught me to do the history. And I really enjoyed that. And so when the email came out asking if anybody wanted jobs, and I saw that Catherine was coming, I assumed she'd be helping. And so I said I'd do anything because she did such a good job instructing me last year. So that's the other half of the reason why I asked. But just now when you were talking to her, I did realize that it's also the authority thing that feeling like,

[69:09]

You're too busy. You have too many other things on your mind to address this detail, and so I would go to someone else. I appreciate at this retreat that you don't expect perfection, and so I don't feel a lot of pressure. If you think that not having practice ahead of time is fine, that's fine with me also. I don't have a problem with that. As long as you are willing to accept the results. Actually, you know, it might be helpful also to move this like this. That's a lot of pillows.

[70:36]

There's a pee underneath. Yes. I know there's a whole routine here. Go ahead. I just want to say I really appreciate the idea of... What I see you have done is sort of take Catherine out of... which is trying to make everything go exactly right. Because you can't succeed anyway. And also taking some of us out of our comfort zone of, oh, we've got to practice, practice, practice before we do this. So I think it's very skillful as a teacher to... experience being confused and afraid.

[71:44]

But I... Did you say let us experience being confused? And afraid, yes. But on the other hand, just like everybody else here, I think I assumed Catherine had the same role. She's had the last two retreats here. What was maybe not so skillful, and maybe we could correct this, would be to go over who are the officials for this retreat and what their functions are in some way, maybe at lunchtime or maybe we don't need to take class time to do that. But yes, I would have appreciated knowing that her role had changed. I did ask her a question. She kindly helped me. But I really appreciate what you're trying to do with Catherine's, and I think that's great. I wish I had known you were doing that. But some people who might be coming to a retreat like this for the first time might not understand who the tenzo is, what the attendants do. So it might be good to just go over that in general. Okay. Let's go over it.

[72:49]

Okay. Is that enough? That's enough. Okay. Do you want to sit here while we go over it, or do you want to go back there? I'll go back there. Okay, so let's see. Somehow I got in the position of coming to Houston, and I don't know what this role is called, but... Huh? What? I got this invitation to come to Pittsburgh. I got this invitation to come to Pittsburgh. And so I'm going along, some kind of role for me to, what do you call it? Huh? Officiate? Teach. Teach? Officially teach? What? I call it lead a retreat. Lead a retreat. And... Jean did a great deal of the organization of the retreat. Is that right?

[73:51]

You know, with everybody's support. Amy also helped quite a bit. Catherine helped quite a bit, both from her at Pittsburgh, but also as my assistant. She just happens to be my assistant. So she's also helping to arrange retreats in Houston. And you know, Bozeman, England, and so on. So there's another kind of, like, factors. And she wasn't my assistant in previous retreats. And when the retreat started, leading up to the retreat, I asked Jean, when she came to the retreat, to give up her job as retreat. She would not be in a position... of having people asking her questions about what's going on during the whole retreat, so she could just do the retreat. However, not however, and you guys don't have this habit of going to her and asking her questions quite as strongly.

[74:59]

She organized the retreat last year. Are people kind of leaving you alone somewhat? Yeah. So I said, when you get to the retreat, your job's over. Just give it all to me. I don't know if she did, but anyway, I said that. And then I would share it with people and get the help. I could, like, not be in the center of all the questions during the retreat. And also, I asked Catherine, sort of, to do that, too. So... But I didn't tell you all that. And so now, all you've got... And Amy volunteered, I guess, to be the Tenzo. So Amy is the Tenzo. Huh? But somehow, somehow, I would like Amy to be Tenzo. She's doing a great job. And you're all helping her.

[76:02]

And so that's that position. And did you want to say something, Jean? Just that we forgot to acknowledge Ranigan's help in all the pre-retreats. Ranigan, I'm really sorry I didn't say. Ranigan helped a lot, too. Well, she was the one with their registration. And Ranigan kind of took over at the beginning of the retreat. Yeah, so Ranigan kind of received Jean's work at the beginning of this retreat. So Rannigan's kind of like somewhat vulnerable. He asked a lot of questions about a lot of stuff. So should we officially make Rannigan the one who you bring all your problems to? So anyway, so far I've only specified the only two officials of this retreat so far that I'm specifying so far is whatever you call me and the Tenzo.

[77:16]

And in addition to that, I have two helpers, Mark and Lisa. So Lisa will absorb all your problems. Any problems, bring them to Lisa. And then she'll make an appointment with me to assist her in dealing with them. Okay? So he both is going to help me do the formal rituals, but also if you want to give me a message, you could also tell him too. So these two people can bring me any concerns you have during the retreat. So they're also officials. So those are the things we do during this retreat. And we've asked people to ring bells and... drum drums and sing songs so they've all been assigned and to offer flowers and incense and candles and take care of the altars so those are the positions but you know so if you have any if you have have you not be going to talk to those people about their jobs okay don't talk to the bell ringers about the bell ringing talk to me

[78:29]

Yes. Talk to me about the bell ringers or the flowers or the incense, okay, if you have any problems with the flowers. Talk to me, and if you can't find me because I'm busy, tell Mark or Lisa. So that's what I would suggest as the structure of the retreat. Does that make it clearer? That's perfect. Thank you. Yes. Would you like to offer something? Suggesting the things that you said last night and letting them kind of, I don't know, holding them next to my practice in my life.

[79:33]

There's one particular aspect of my practice in my life where I noticed a sticky place. I need help, but I need help desperately. Wow. Yeah. And I was thinking, I mean, there are all kinds of situations where I sort of know how to practice and how to, you know, just keep moving forward. But this sticky place... I think I would say that I'm not upright, that I lean, and it's whenever I have certain thoughts about... Can you wait one second? Yes. If you're uncomfortable sitting, you're welcome to sit in a chair. You don't have to keep sitting there if it gets too long for you, okay? Don't push yourself too hard. Okay, you guys are having trouble? Go sit in a chair. It's really okay. And during these long talks, feel free to move. Excuse me. Sure, yeah. Would you start again? Not from the beginning.

[80:35]

Yeah, so the place where I think that what stuck is that I'm leaning when these thoughts or stories come up. And the... And maybe I'll pick three of them. There are many, but there are three that particularly I don't think about. Certain stories you get stuck on. Okay. Okay. So one of these stories is called Global Warming. Yes. One of them is called Peak Oil. One of them is called Torture. And, you know, I could just go on and on and on. Yes. They're that kind of stories. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And I think a lot of, you know, the story of global warming comes up over and over, doesn't it? Just so many times during a day it comes up. And it kind of hurts, at least the way I... I don't know if anybody...

[81:39]

Actually, I heard of somebody who said, if this is global warming, it's fine with me. You know, like this happened at the, I swim in the San Francisco Bay, and the bay is warm this fall. And this woman said, if this is global warming, I'm all for it. For the bay to get warmer. The person who reported that to me says, I just don't know what to think sometimes when she says stuff like that. But anyway. Yeah. So this global warming thing comes up and it's a painful story. You have a story, you have a story that comes up, this person is suffering. That that person is suffering. So how can you not lean into that? That's the challenge. How do you not lean into global warming? If you lean into it, like you have a candle, you know, and if a candle leans, it burns down really fast. Like, I don't know how much faster than usual, if it's upright.

[82:44]

So if you bring your energy to go overwarning and you lean, you're just going to burn out. Right? If you want to consistently work on it, and like, Just keep facing it. You've got to be upright and not lean into it. And you can feel it when you lean into it because you feel your energy loss or whatever, or inflation, one or the other. So when you notice that you're leaning into some painful situation or pleasurable situation, either one, but these are painful ones that you brought up. But you probably have some pleasureful ones, too, that you lean into sometimes, like your grandchildren. Exactly. Very hard not to lean into the grandchildren. But then you get burned out on your grandchildren. Well, two months. Sometimes it takes more than two months.

[83:46]

Right, yes. Unless you have hundreds of grandchildren. Then it happens in about a week. Some people, they don't notice the burnout until you start multiplying the number. Like some people, and the advantage of that is if you're leaning into them, you're a wreck at the end of the day. But some people just have a couple, so then they think, hey, but anyway, that's the thing. And when you notice, or when we notice we're leaning, then we confess, okay. I'm off balance, I'm leaning into this, or I'm leaning away from this, I confess and [...] keep coming back up. So that's ongoing. This is what bodhisattvas do. They practice confessing that they're leaning into their compassion practice. And when you lean into it, you're not wholehearted.

[84:49]

and you're not wholehearted, you don't see clearly how to help. It's not clear. It's not that we... People want to know, what can you do to be sure you're doing the right thing? There is a vision where you can see what to do, and you're absolutely sure, irrefutably. But you don't do it to feel that way. You just see. It's a difference. So there is certainty, but not how do you get it. Yeah, right. It's like I'm waiting. It's like, okay, keep confessing. Thank you. You're welcome. I've been listening to the conversation, and what was coming to me was to see clearly, like you said, what you can do.

[86:18]

...from a place of how you are with not knowing. And it seems to me that most of the anxiety and hurt or confusion that people have expressed comes from not knowing how to be with... That's all I could take because the... The details, once you start picking and choosing, there's no end to it. So when do you not do that? That's all I wanted to share. Thank you. Please, Luca? Luca. Luca. I was thinking of what you had said last night about everybody brushing our teeth.

[87:39]

And in this conversation about how to do different things, what comes out in the end is put together with all these different minds. And you were saying last night and how people... express through what they're expressing, but it's the mind that is expressing and that this retreat, the nature of the retreat, seems to have this sort of flow and confluence of all these minds. The conversations about saying one thing to another and becomes part of that process. And so I was watching this as the conversations were going along and seeing how retreats have a certain nature and that in here you seem to be letting it unstructure and letting it form its own, consciously form its own.

[88:55]

and explain that process as you're doing it. And that I'm very grateful for. And also the series of explanations and that this is what we do is a and it all gets whatever comes out of it. To have that actually stated as the process that we're doing is to me really a relief. Because so much of the teaching is particular teachings. But this strips away the teachings. And it's the doing. And I appreciate that.

[89:58]

Could you hear him? Would you say the last part again, Luca? I don't remember. I know, I appreciate it a lot. It's just, it all sort of unfolds. It's all just put together and it just happens and you're allowing it to happen. And I'm grateful for that. When the Buddha first started teaching, it looked like the Buddha was teaching the students. Rather than the Buddha and the students meet and interact and the student understands. It's in the dance that we're doing together, not just you and me, all of us tuned together. That interaction is where we understand the teachings. It's not that I've got it and I'm sending it to you. It's that what we're doing is it.

[91:10]

And of course, although that's extremely wonderful, you can't get a hold of it. But you can open to it, in the middle of it, open to it. And the way to deal with it, because it's kind of hard to deal with in an unhabitual way, is the way I'm suggesting. Be very process. Don't try to grab it. Be flexible and tender. But keep trying to find your balance in it. If you're balanced, you can turn. If you lean, your head's going to get spun around. If you can find your balance, you can turn and not get dizzy. And if you're soft, you can turn. But also be honest. I'm scared.

[92:13]

Whatever. I'm happy. I'm depressed. I'm angry. You can say that uprightly rather than, I'm angry. Like, I'm angry. Okay, fine. I'm scared. So this is what I like to do with you. First of all, thank you for your compassion with my sore back. I appreciate you noticing that. As I warned you last night, it's probably going to be a struggle. When I heard the phrase peak oil a minute ago, it really struck a nerve with me, and it's something I've been struggling with. Okay, could you hear that? I heard the word peak oil. It really struck a nerve with me. I recently read a book by James Howard Kunstler that covers the supply of oil peaks and we go down the backside of the supply curve.

[93:16]

He makes the case that we have about 5 billion more people that a well-free society can support. And when he describes a situation where the population will correct itself one way or the other, disease, starvation, different things like that. And I found myself struggling to sort of maintain detached. Myself very much leaning into the situation, specifically when I would see someone driving a Humvee, for example, I would see people dying. And even I had a hard time being upright and wholehearted with myself. I was describing a situation where I was drinking a plastic bottle of water that was shipped from Fiji. obviously using fuel and all those sorts of things. And then after driving just about everybody I knew absolutely crazy with this idea, it's kind of like the buildings on fire, no one believed me sort of feeling.

[94:18]

Later, I read the book by Thich Nhat Hanh on being peace, and it was written 20 years ago, and he was concerned about potential nuclear annihilation, starvation, and the thought was, in a world like this, what you can do is you can be peace, you can be upright. But I... with... how to act knowing the bridge is out ahead and how to act in the world. I apologize if I'm repeating the question previously, but it's something that I've personally been struggling with. Just like your thoughts on that. Well, I request that you be open to me saying the same thing again. Okay? There's a famous what do you call it?

[95:22]

Parable in the Lotus Sutra about burning house. And the father of the family is outside the house, sees the house is on fire and his children are inside burning up. And he calls them but they won't They're so enamored with their toys, like Humvees. They're so enamored with their boats and cars and trucks and computer games and big houses. They won't come out. They won't listen. But the father doesn't freak out. and lean into, he loves these children, he wants them to come out, but he doesn't, he stays upright, and he thinks of a skillful way to get them out. Now, in this story, he, you know, doesn't say how long it took him to think of a skillful way to get them out, but he did think of a way to get them out.

[96:27]

So, We all sympathize with the pain you feel about this. And it's wonderful to see people dying. It's wonderful to see that. I think that's great vision. And we understand if you feel pain when you see abuse of the earth, when you see a truck like that with chrome wheels spinning. We need you to be upright with that. We need you to somehow be gentle and open to the situation. And in that situation, you have your best chance of saying to the guy in the truck something to get him out of the truck. And, you know, communicate to him in a way that would be beneficial.

[97:30]

To tell him, you know, Imagine I have a problem with you driving this huge vehicle. And he may say various things to me and you listen to them, you know. And it may be very challenging. He may reject you. Even though you're upright, he may reject you. It doesn't mean that if you're upright, people won't get upset with you. You can be really skillful and they still get upset. Upset may be part of the healing process. You may be the first person that talked to them, but they noticed the difference between you talking to them and somebody else who's talking to them who was leaning into them. They got angry at that person too. But now they see somebody, he's talking to me, but he's not. He's just being generous with me, and I still hate him, but he's being generous. He really cares about me. He's not looking down on me. He's just asking me to do something as a gift to me.

[98:33]

Eventually it gets through. But if we're not upright with these people who we're asking to change, if we're not generous with them, who's going to change them? Who's going to be generous? The first way to get them to change is to be generous with them. And you can take that as an act of generosity. But it really has to be generous, which means you have no expectation of gain or reward. So we need to learn how to be that way with all situations, and eventually with these extremely difficult ones. I don't want to go up to somebody with a Humvee and say, I have a request of you yet. But I would like to be able to. But some people do. Like some people say, you know, I love you, but I'm not going to ride in that thing with you.

[99:38]

If you want me to ride with you, you have to get a different car. Some people say that to these people, and they know the person who's talking to them loves them, but doesn't want to ride in that car. It's just inappropriate. If you want to ride in it, that's your life, but I'm not riding in it. I've heard there are opportunities like this. So, yeah, it's very challenging. And in the meantime, if you try to practice this way, you can at least practice confessing that you can't do it. Trying to be upright with this painful situation and be gentle and failing and confessing it is still the practice. Even if you don't feel you can make a difference, even if you have zero karma personally, you see that maybe in this lifetime the die is cast, to take a broader or longer-term perspective.

[100:51]

You could say longer term, but you can also take the perspective of now, that now you're loving people. You're loving people. You may die this afternoon, but this morning you love people. Your parting gift is that you loved and you cared. If that doesn't have any good effect, you still, right now, this is it. Not because later is going to be helpful, although it is proposed to be the way to help. Right now it's the way to open up to life. It should be good now and later. Not just later. Practice a way that immediately, right now, is the way you think is right to live. And if you can't, then confess, I'm not doing it the way I think is right. But I'm just expanding what I think is right right now and saying that this will always be right.

[102:02]

But I don't know how. I don't say I know how it's going to happen. I have these theories of how it works, but how it's actually going to work, I'm not a Buddha. I can't actually see how it's going to work. I'm just telling you the principle that the Buddha taught, and that is, if you practice this way with your stories in peak oil, if you practice this way, it is the best way to change the world. But how it's going to work depends on how many people are cooperating with you. And the more you practice this the way, the more people are going to cooperate with you. And the more you'll cooperate with them. Because one of the, it's gentle and cooperative, gentle and harmonious. Find a way to harmonize with people and they will gradually feel that and they will change. And I don't know how fast they'll change, but we'll already be practicing compassion right now.

[103:03]

Thank you. I don't know what time lunch is, but probably about 12.30, right? Right? So maybe we could... formally conclude this event and move over to the service. And today we're going to do a service in sympathy of the Buddhists and non-Buddhists in Burma who are trying to reform their government. Okay? So now we can conclude this event and then we'll rearrange the room and do a service for that. May our intention equally extend to every being and place.

[104:12]

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