You may be familiar with the definition of a bodhisattva as someone who is devoted to the comfort and aid, the welfare and happiness of all beings. You may also be familiar with the 16 great Bodhisattva precepts that are transmitted in the lineage coming from Ehe Dogen. And you may be familiar with the three pure precepts among these 16. The first of these three pure precepts we sometimes say is embracing and sustaining

[01:22]

embracing and sustaining right conduct, literally it's more like embracing and sustaining forms and ceremonies or regulations and ceremonies. It's the precept of embracing and sustaining forms and ceremonies. That's the first one. The second one is embracing and sustaining all good phenomena. And the third one is embracing and sustaining all beings. Embracing and sustaining could also be, and that's the way we're translating, or I often translate it, but for our discussions it could be intimacy, the precept of intimacy with forms and ceremonies.

[02:54]

The character which could be translated as embracing and sustaining is this one, which in Japanese is pronounced Setsu. So it means to embrace, sustain, nurture, care for, bring up, collect, gather. And so putting it that way, it's like, is that a transitive verb?

[04:01]

Are those transitive verbs? To collect, to gather. To nurture, to give nurturance. But this character can also be written up. intransitive way or a passive way, which would be to be gathered, be nurtured, be collected, be embraced and sustained. And so one of the ways, when this character appears in a Buddhist context, one of the ways it's understood is to receive Buddhist compassion. And this character could also mean guidance. So it could be to receive Buddha's guidance.

[05:02]

This character is used for the four methods or four ways of guidance. Bodhisattva's four ways of guidance. This character is used in that case for guidance. Or it could be four ways, bodhisattva's four ways of embracing and sustaining beings. But it's also, it's not usually, that side's the side that's emphasized. But I would like to emphasize, to turn it the other way, that you could talk about the bodhisattva's four ways or methods of receiving guidance. And Yeah. And these four methods are giving, kind speech, beneficial action, and working together, cooperative.

[06:08]

It's also called identity action. It's action from the perspective of we're in the same boat. So those are four methods. And sometimes these methods actually are called four methods for gathering disciples. Pardon? Giving, kind speech, beneficial action, and identity action or cooperation. So this character is used in our tradition. This character, which is the character that's used in these four bodhisattva methods, is also used for these three pure precepts. So the first precept is the precept of

[07:15]

Embracing and sustaining forms and ceremonies, but also the precept I'm emphasizing of being embraced by the forms and ceremonies. So at Tassajara, at a Zen monastery, you embrace the forms and ceremonies, but the forms and ceremonies embrace you. The schedule, the robes, the bowls, the bells, the other members of the sanghas, the buildings, the paths, the whole environment embraces you and sustains you. The forms and ceremonies and the way of performing them embraces and sustains you, but you also can embrace and sustain them. You can also be in the monastery and try to resist the forms and ceremonies so that they won't be able to embrace you and sustain you, but it's hard to get away from them. And you can also try not to practice them, but that's hard too, since you kind of came here to do that.

[08:26]

So embracing and sustaining, I would say, is also the first precept is to be intimate with these forms and ceremonies, to let them be intimate with you, to let yourself be intimate with them. And this forms and ceremonies, two Chinese characters which mean regulations or forms and ceremonies, they're actually a kind of an unpacking of another term in Sanskrit called pratimoksha. And pratimoksha means that which is conducive to liberation. Moksha is like liberation. and prati is conducive to. So prati moksha are the precepts which are conducive to liberation, which are given to the sangha. But there's two parts.

[09:30]

One part is like regulations, like don't kill, don't steal, don't go around saying you're a Buddha unless you are. Stuff like that. Kind of like prohibitory precepts, but then the other part of it are like ritual instructions, like how to wear your robes, how to eat, where to lie down, where not to lie down. So there's ceremonial instructions or instructions for making your life a ceremony, and then there's somewhat like guidelines or prohibitory precepts. These two parts make up the pratyamoksha. So when the Chinese translated pratyamoksha semantically, they used two Chinese characters, one for laws or regulations and the other one for ceremonies.

[10:31]

So now I had the nice experience of everybody, not everybody, but a lot of people considering these forms and trying to embrace them or become intimate with them and experiencing some, yeah, some... questions or struggles around how to embrace and sustain them. So some people have come to me and talked to me about jewelry, that they've heard about the instruction not to wear jewelry in the meditation hall, and so they're talking to me about that. So I said this before, I'll say it again. It's not so much that nobody wears jewelry in the Zendo, but just it's clear that we're asking people not to. And then if you notice that you're wearing them and you think that maybe it would be good to wear them, you wouldn't make that decision unilaterally.

[11:54]

You would discuss it, perhaps. There would be a discussion about, you know, with the Sangha, about how you feel that it's maybe appropriate or best for you to wear jewelry. And the same with the clothing. If you're working with the form and you're not sure you're in accord with it, you would discuss it. Yeah, that's the thing. And this process of becoming close to the forms, I'm observing and I'm hearing literally people reporting and I observe that as you become intimate with the forms, people are becoming anxious. They're becoming afraid of what will happen to them if they

[13:00]

as they become more intimate with them. So I make a circle and then I make a circle around the circle and then I make another circle around that circle. And in the middle of the circle I could write either intimacy I could write intimacy. I could write enlightenment. I could write emptiness. I could write renunciation. And look at these four different situations. But let's just start by writing, imagine that I put emptiness in the center of the circle. What did I say? Emptiness, yeah.

[14:05]

This circle that I'm drawing here is parallel to what I've heard about, for example, lions and tigers. If a human is out somewhere where lions live, I've heard, or tigers, that if there's a circle around them, And if you're outside that circle, they don't really pay any attention to you. And I would just say it's a circle of fear. It's a wide circle of fear. It's a big circle of fear. It's a circle in which they feel some fear. But if you're outside that circle, They're not aware of their fear, and they make almost no response to you.

[15:08]

If you move inside that circle, the fear is activated, and they will move away from you. This is in the case of where lions and tigers usually do not, in the cases of they're not the type that eat humans. Most of them don't. But I've heard from people who study them that they feel that they are afraid of humans. They've been with us long enough that they know that we're dangerous and we're not what they primarily think of to eat. So when we move inside of that circle, they will try to avoid us. Then if we move even closer to them and we move into the next circle, that's the circle where they become even more aware of their fear and then they will attack.

[16:14]

And I think there's some parallel in humans like that, that we're generally afraid of humans. Humans also have been living with them for a long time. They also know that humans are not usually what we eat, but they are dangerous. And if they're far enough away, we don't seem to care that much. They're moving around out there, but it doesn't bother us. When they move in closer, we often try to avoid them when we feel fear. When the fear is activated, we try to avoid it. But when they get even closer, if the fear gets really strong, we might attack. Sometimes we'll still try to avoid, but we might try to attack. I just want to put in parentheses, and you can call me back to this if you want to, but I can tell you a little bit about wild animal training methods later.

[17:28]

So as we get closer to these forms, just like when we get closer to the emptiness of the forms, Same is said about emptiness. When people hear about emptiness and they're far away from it, they don't care. But as they get closer to it, they often become frightened. And if they get even closer, they can get even more frightened. So how to approach emptiness is similar to how to approach a powerful animal, particularly a wild animal. So how to approach emptiness is at issue here and how to approach intimacy is at issue here and how to approach renunciation is at issue here.

[18:34]

Because renunciation's involved also in approaching intimacy and approaching the realization of ultimate truth. For example, someone was talking to me about being pretty happy that it's been possible during this practice period to become concentrated already. And among worldly things, perhaps the greatest, the most wonderful worldly thing in a way, the greatest pleasure among worldly things is concentration. So this person was really happy to have some concentration to enjoy. And I don't remember if she said, well, should I continue to practice concentration or not?

[19:42]

But she might have said that. And I said, yeah, please do. But also remember that the perfection of concentration is to give away the concentration. So once you're concentrated, in order to bring the concentration to perfection, you have to give away the concentration and give away the bliss of concentration. Concentration is very pleasant. When you're concentrated, pain cannot really exist in concentrated states. I mean, it's there, but it doesn't bother you. So that's kind of cool. Concentration kind of temporarily, at least, or some people would say permanently, turns off conception. It removes affliction. It removes the causes of suffering. So it's good stuff. But to perfect it, you have to renounce it. And renouncing it, you become even more intimate with it.

[20:45]

And renouncing it, you open to ultimate truth. You sort of need concentration and then you need to renounce it in order to open to wisdom. The price of opening to ultimate truth is to be concentrated and give it away. And also give away all other kinds of bliss that you have, if you happen to have whatever kind of bliss you have. I appreciate that, therefore, that people are coming to me and saying, you know, I'd like to... So a couple of people have come to me and said that they feel it's appropriate for them, given their current state of development, to continue to wear jewelry in the Zendo. And I... I feel okay about it in these cases.

[21:49]

But the thing I really feel good about is they came and talked to me. And... showed themselves as being a person who wishes to continue to wear jewelry for whatever reason. So we have all these, we have the jewelry thing, we have the clothes, we also have the ceremonial, the forms and ceremonies, the liturgical forms and ceremonies. So there too, you know, when you're ringing the bells and you're like the dawans are ringing the bells and they're leading the chanting. There they are, expressing themselves, showing themselves to the sangha, and they're pretty intimate with these ceremonies at that time. So they often feel anxiety because they're getting so intimate with the form.

[22:54]

and in some ways getting intimate with other people because other people are getting to see them show themselves in ways that they hadn't shown themselves before. And so what are they afraid of? Well, they're afraid that their performance will not be liked or that their performance will not be approved of by the sangha or by the teachers. They're afraid that the way that they perform these liturgies or these ceremonies will not fit in to the Tassajara way. They might even think that they will be expelled from the monastery because of the way that they perform the ceremonies. They might even think, some people of this place would like to get rid of me. If they see me perform this ceremony, If they see me hit the mokugyo like this, they may want to get me out of here.

[23:59]

Could that be that there'd be somebody who'd say, I wish we didn't have that mokugyo person here at Tassajara? Or, I wish this chanter was not in this valley. I heard over the years at Tassajara, Tassajara has now been here for about 43 years. I mean, the monastery has been here about 43 years. I've heard people who have actually had thoughts like that, that they would like Chanter so-and-so to be in some other place. That they actually, yeah, they're actually practicing the form and ceremony of chanting with somebody and they're actually getting very intimate with this person and the way this person's chanting is really annoying them, really painful for them because that person's not chanting like they are. And they really feel uncomfortable and maybe not afraid but very uncomfortable.

[25:07]

Such things have been happening here from the early days. People have been feeling these strong feelings around these forms and ceremonies and worrying about other people feeling those, having strong feelings about them and the way they're doing it. People go, there's a form called going to see the teacher. going into the teacher's room, you know. Like Bodhidharma let Khoika come into his room and study with him. But once you go in the room, then when you're in there and you get close to the teacher, you might be somewhat concerned that the teacher will see you, since you're in the room where they can see you. I sometimes say to people when they come in the room, I say, this is not a good place to hide. If you want to hide, it's better to hide outside, because I can see you really well here. But sometimes people do come into the room, sit right in front of me, and then try to hide.

[26:15]

It's silly, really. It's not a good place to hide. You can try, but I wouldn't recommend it if you want to be successful. But if you don't hide and you show yourself, then you might think, well, I wonder if the teacher will like me if I show myself. Or even before you show yourself, you might think, I wonder if the teacher would like this. And you might wonder if the teacher will approve of that. Among the various things I could talk about, which ones would be likely to get approval? I think this one would. Maybe bring this one. Which one might the teacher like? This one, I think, would be a good one. And also people often come in and they confess, you know, I'm coming in here, I feel like I'm coming here to get your approval, or I feel like I'm coming here to get you to like me. I've heard that more than a hundred times.

[27:22]

Maybe not a thousand. but maybe a thousand times, people have come in and told me that. And I say, you know, it's really good that you're showing me that, that you have that feeling. And I also say it is, I think it's more or less genetic that social animals are concerned about being liked by their species mates and also being approved and allowed to be in the society. I think it's built into us that we care about that. So I really think it's, it's not for me to say I think it's okay, I just think it's part of the deal that you have these such feelings, that we like people to like us sometimes, and we like people to approve of us sometimes. But we always, we kind of want it until we get it. And then sometimes we say, I don't like the way you're liking me, stop that one.

[28:28]

But I like you. No, not, I don't want that way. But I approve you. Not that type of approval. But anyway, before we, until further notice, we do want to be approved and liked, generally. And that's, we can work with that, put it that way. And the way we work with it, I would suggest, the way the Bodhisattva works with it, is being honest about it. And be gentle with it. And be upright with it. And Be intimate with it. Don't do something to get people to like you. When you feel the desire for people to like you, be intimate with that. If you're intimate with it, you won't do things to get people to like you. If you wish for approval and you're intimate with the wish for approval, you won't be trying to get people to approve of you. If you try to get people to like you and try to get people to approve of you, there's a great danger that you might be dishonest about who you are.

[29:39]

Like I just said, you've got five things to mention, and if you want somebody to approve of you, you might bring up the ones that you think would have a chance of being approved of, rather than the one which would be most honest. Rather than the one that's actually what's happening right now. which the one that's happening right now, in my opinion, is the most intimate one. Who you are right now is the most intimate one, rather than who you remember you were yesterday, which sounds pretty good. The good thing you did yesterday, the good understanding you had yesterday, which you want to come in and have approved. Now, to come in and check something out is different, just like you wonder. But you're not trying to get approval, you're trying to understand something that's different.

[30:42]

So again, the way to practice the ceremony is to really be intimate with yourself and be authentic and not compromise what's happening with you to get something. And what's happening with you is so many things, like in relationship to the schedule too. If you feel that it's most beneficial not to attend a formal event here, a sangha event, then I would ask you to communicate that to us. Otherwise, somebody may have to come looking for you because they don't know what's going on with you, because we care about you. So we want to find out where you are and how you are, if you haven't told us.

[31:47]

So as an act of as an act of intimacy or an act of developing intimacy, if you're not going to attend something, tell us that somehow. Either a note or face to face or if you're really sick, have somebody else bring a message for you. But when you do it, try to do it honestly. Try to say it honestly. Try to say it honestly. Try to show who you are when you send a message. So tell us, yeah, tell us who you are. And then if you don't tell us and somebody wants to come and find out about you, then we have a whole other set of opportunities. Then how does that person respectfully approach you to find out what's going on, you know, they don't know. So this is also an intimacy thing where we've had, you know, some difficult interactions in the history of Tassajara where people have, and even when they're, but difficult doesn't always mean

[33:04]

not beneficial sometimes it's difficult someone comes and inquires about you and it's difficult that they're inquiring but then it's very helpful that they did I mean you it was difficult that they ask you you know what's going on with you even if they don't say it that way they're inquiring what is going on with you and you you notice that you're having a little trouble really telling them or really showing yourself and then and then you do and then you feel like oh this is this is what I came for Sometimes you actually welcome it from the beginning, the inquiry. So another funny word about that, another funny thing about the word for intimacy is that another one of the meanings besides intimate is private or secret. So privacy and intimacy are really kind of like inseparable because there's a private part of us.

[34:07]

And how much of the private part of us, how does the private part of us work in our relationships? How are we working with our private part in our relationships? Are we aware that there's a private part that we're working with when we communicate? We don't necessarily tell everybody everything, But what is the reason for not telling them? Is it that you think not telling them would be more beneficial? Or do you think not telling them would get them to approve of you? Or do you think that not telling them would get them to go along with what you want to do? So realizing intimacy together partly involves looking at our secrets. If you're not going to be intimate with somebody, you don't even notice maybe that you're being private or that you have a secret. But as you approach intimacy, you start to notice your secrets.

[35:12]

And then the other part of that character that means intimacy and secret also is the word close. And close in the sense of relationally close, but also close in the sense of like a weave of a fabric. So there's this dense weave of secrecy and intimacy. And secrecy, intimacy, and exposure. And when we get into our secrets and our private space, as we start to look at that and think about that, we often feel, we can often feel anxious. So one time I felt, you know, my God, I just, I'm totally open to everyone.

[36:27]

And then I also simultaneously felt, but now everyone will be able to see me. I won't be able to, or I won't be able to resist anyone. I won't be able to, yeah, people can just come and use me however they want in this openness. But fortunately or unfortunately, I think that in order to tolerate the intimacy and keep working on it, one of the gifts we have to give is the gift of a form called a boundary or a limit. That's part of what I think we need in order to actually consistently, not even consistently, in order to be intimate. that going deeper and deeper into intimacy is part of what's involved there, is kind of like trading or conversing about limits.

[37:42]

You know, a mutual conversation about limits and boundaries. and to give limits and boundaries not to control the other person or to control what you feel, but to go deeper into intimacy. Take a not so, I don't know what the word, not so, just take this example before I characterize it, the example of cold. So some people are feeling a little bit of cold now. A few days ago we weren't feeling much cold. Now we're feeling a little bit of cold coming. We're feeling it. And maybe we can let it in a little bit. And it's kind of fun to say, oh, there's the cold and I'm not running away yet. That's a cold and I'm still relaxed with it.

[38:49]

How cool. But there's some discussion because of the guidelines and all that. There's some discussions now. What about when it gets even colder? So one person I was talking to and I said, maybe you could have a little care package or a little first aid kit that you carry on the side of your robe which has socks in it. So if you're walking towards the zendo and you walk onto the walkway and you get terrified, you can just pull out your socks. I mean, you get terrified of how cold the walkway is and you think, well, you don't even think, you just feel terrified. You have an anxiety attack about how cold it might get or what might happen to your feet. But you might even not be thinking that. You just feel your heart beating and can't breathe. Just whip out your socks, put them on. I'm okay.

[39:53]

My feet are not going to break off. Yeah, put them on. And then go in the zendo and put your socks on. And then maybe get up on your cushion and see maybe once you're in your cushion and you're safe, maybe you can take them off like a good Zen monk. And then the next day you come up and again you feel terrified and you feel like, but I got my kit here and I can put my socks on if I need to. And I do need to. I'm going to put them on. And the next day you come up and you feel cold again. You say, well, I survived the last two days with my socks on. And actually, if I put my socks on, I'll be okay. But I don't actually need them on right now. I mean, it's the same temperature, but... I'm not as anxious today. I mean the anxiety is not so strong that I can't move. I just feel a little uncomfortable and a little afraid.

[40:57]

But I don't need the socks on today and I've got them here just in case things change. In this way, by repeatedly visiting By using the form of barefoot practice in cold weather, you negotiate the place between what is actually ridiculously ridiculous not to wear socks or wear shoes, where it's ridiculous not to. And that's one place. And where it's actually okay, but you're just really afraid. And you won't die, but you feel like you will. Or another thing I would say is if you get up in your room and you feel like, if I don't put socks on, I'm just going to stay in my sleeping bag and lie.

[42:07]

I'm going to tell a lie. I'm going to send a note saying I'm dead. I'm not going to go to the Zendo if I have to go barefoot. Well, I would say, well, I'd rather have you come to the Zendo with lots of socks on than to stay, to push yourself to such a place that not only do you not come, but you lie about the reason because you don't want to write a note, I'm afraid to come without socks. Or people almost never write, it's too cold, I'm scared, so I'm going to stay in my room. They almost never, I don't know if I've ever seen that note. It's too cold. Or I have never seen also, it's too dark. Haven't seen it. But I suspect that occasionally in the history of Tassajara that the reason people didn't come was because it was too cold and dark in the early morning. And as they anticipated this, they felt so anxious that they felt sick.

[43:12]

I am sick. I'm like unwell here. So a roommate, go tell them I'm unwell because it's really I am. But I'm not going to tell them the reason I'm unwell is because I'm afraid of the cold and the darkness and I want to stay here. But I think that would be a wonderful message to send that message. I'm afraid of the cold and the dark. I'm terrified. That's getting intimate. with your situation. And so now I'm going back to the animal training thing. What I've heard they do is, you've seen this too maybe if you've ever seen a circus, the person's in the cage with the animals where the animals are basically, they've been well fed,

[44:13]

on food that they like. They're not starving. They do not think that the trainer is food. And they're afraid of the trainer because the trainer is inside their fear zone where they feel fear. You know, it's like 30 or 40 feet wide or something. They're afraid of people when they're that close. And if you move towards them, they'll kind of move away. Now, not too many people want to be in there and move towards them once they're in there. But in fact, if you move towards them, they'll move away. But you can't move too close, otherwise they'll get so afraid they'll attack you. So what they do is they use whips and chairs, they use extensions, to get really close. And when they get close, the animals are so afraid that they come forward.

[45:16]

they go into attack mode and move forward. And then the trainer withdraws the extension and then they stop. Their fear calms down and now they have the type of fear which they will back away. So by playing with this edge, the trainer can get the animal to come towards them and away from them. So they can move them around the room by carefully adjusting their fear level between attack and avoid. You might say, well, that sounds like a really cruel thing, but actually it could be part of training these animals to evolve consciously. to become more aware of their fear in the process and for the trainer also to become aware of her fear because she's also afraid and to work that edge where you're able to relax even though the fear goes up and down depending on how close you are to the form or how many people are watching you sing Hail Buddha

[46:38]

You play with that until you can become comfortable with more and more varieties of fear. And the fear has great to do with performing forms. I mean, the training situation is to perform forms, to feel the fear, and to play with it. But in order to play with it, you need to be relaxed with it. That's why I think you have to be careful that the fear level doesn't get so strong that we tense up you know, for a long time. Tensing up a little indicates that we maybe should get a little space if we know how getting space will help us relax, like put some socks on. It's getting cold and I'm getting tense.

[47:42]

Okay. Okay, now this tension, okay, this tension I can relax with. I got tense before I even noticed what's happening. Now I notice I'm tense and now I'm breathing. Okay, now I'm relaxed. But sometimes the tension is so strong that you just don't feel like you can relax. So then maybe you should give yourself a little break. And this way we can become more and more skillful at relaxing and being playful with more and more varieties of anxiety that come up as we get intimate with each other and with the forms. And this is the first bodhisattva precept of embracing and sustaining these things. And this precept is the precept that most of the three, it's the three that is the one where we purify ourselves of self-clinging.

[48:46]

The first one is for purifying self-clinging. The next one is the things you can do when you are free of self-clinging. And the third one is how you help other people when you're free of self-clinging. But the training, the kind of like fire that burns away the self-clinging, is to practice these forms where our self-clinging comes up. where our fear that our body is going to be hurt or lost or won't survive, where the fears that come up from attachment to body, where those fears are coming up and you look at them and play with them. And if we can play with the fears that are coming up around our body, we can become free of clinging to our body. And then we can become free of clinging to self. So at the university they teach courses on Buddhism and they tell people it's about becoming free of self-clinging and they hear that and that's correct.

[49:52]

Here you actually have the body involved because the body is the first step in overcoming self-clinging. So I'm really happy to be in this line of work. And by the way, no white footwear will be required for Nenju. Research currently is implying that we don't have to wear the white footwear for the Nenju. And if you do, that'll be interesting for one and all.

[50:53]

Yes, Gary? Is part of embracing forms and ceremonies not doing them? Going against them? Is that a way of becoming intimate with them? Yep. For example, the bodhisattva, the prohibitory precepts, like, I don't know what, praising self at the expense of others. Well, part of the way of practicing that precept is to praise yourself at the expense of others, which you may have noticed some other people doing. Some other people who are committed to practice that precept, you see them doing it. And then maybe they notice that they praised themselves at the expense of somebody else. And then maybe they confess and repent that they praised themselves at the expense of somebody else.

[52:04]

And then they recommit to that precept. This is the pure and simple color of true practice, the true mind of faith, the true body of faith. You're committed to the precept. You don't you're not living in accord with it, you notice it, you confess it, and you feel sorrow about not practicing it, and then you go back to it. That's anthropologically, sociologically, and religiously, that's the way it goes. Once in a while, you think the thought occurs to you, that you raise your bowl skillfully and you don't think and you feel gratitude to all the people that supported you and you realize that actually they were very skillful to help you be able to do that wonderful thing and you don't violate the precept. And you think, boy, this is wonderful to be able to appreciate some action here without taking all the credit for it.

[53:15]

This is wonderful. I love this. This precept seems to be alive here for a moment. So sometimes you practice the precept by just being the precept. That does happen once in a while. But often you practice it by noticing that you're off a little bit and then you practice with that being off and that's part of the intimacy with the precept. have to look at everything from all the different angles. That includes not doing it and then looking, well, how does that make me feel? What response did that create in those around me in order to get a full picture of something? That's right. Yep. And that will happen. I mean, there will be all these different angles. And the question is, are we awake to that when it happens? And if we are, I say, wonderful.

[54:17]

then we're really, we're exercising intimacy with these forms, and with ourself, and with others. Yes, Cathy? I wanted to ask about a comment that Ajahn Amaro made that maybe he now has a lot of time to go into it, but at some point he said something like in the Theravadan tradition it's understood that the Buddha pointed to things as being empty to indicate looking in the wrong place. It sometimes looks in the Mahayana as if emptiness is being reified in some sense. And I was wondering if you could expand that for us and present your understanding of it to us, that particular point.

[55:28]

Not necessarily today, but at some point. Because it kind of might be a big topic. I'm not sure. I just want to check, was that an okay question to ask? Oh, yes. Thank you. I felt some anxiety, but it might not be. Well, let's be really kind to your anxiety, shall we? So aside from comparisons, I would just say that, again, that when there is seeing clearly that all forms, feelings and so on, that all the different kinds of experience lack inherent existence, that vision relieves suffering and distress.

[56:43]

And so I'm proposing that the way you practice which promotes that realization is to be intimate with the five aggregates. And our forms, which are to a great extent physical, postural and verbal, our physical forms, our opportunities to practice wisdom with and warm up to that wisdom by becoming intimate with them and realizing the liberation of all beings through intimacy with our forms. And again, this intimacy requires that we practice the bodhisattva precepts of giving, ethical discipline, patience, enthusiasm, concentration and wisdom.

[57:53]

We have to approach all of our forms with these practices. And it's hard to remember, but once we remember, It is possible to, when we're doing a form, to see if we are remembering to practice giving when we're practicing the form. When you go to the zendo, going to the zendo is a form. We even say, actually, it's kind of like how you should go to the zendo. We don't say climb up over the rock wall through the garden and climb up on the walkway. We, generally speaking, have certain places to enter, and then we also, the form is to take your shoes off, and then so on, and walk quietly. We have a form of how to get to the zendo. But when you go there, to the zendo,

[58:54]

If you wish to realize intimacy with the form of going to the zendo, then it's recommended that you concentrate as much as you can on making that walking to the zendo a gift. It isn't like, I'm going to go to the zendo and then give. My going to the zendo, I want to remember this is a gift. to all beings, that every step I take on my way to the zendo is a gift to all beings. And following a particular form, I want this form to help me remember that using this form to get to the zendo is a gift on my part. And I also would like to learn that being able to walk to the zendo in this form is something that has been given to me. The world has supported me to practice this form, has given me this opportunity, this splendid opportunity to walk through beautiful warm weather, freezing cold weather in the dark.

[60:09]

The world has supported me to do this practice. has been very generous with me to make it possible for me to do this form. And when you get in the zendo and walk to your seat, the walking in the zendo is a gift. When you do kin-hin, that's a gift. Bodhisattvas are practicing giving when they're doing walking meditation. That probably doesn't surprise you, right? It doesn't surprise you that, if I would say, when the Buddha's walking, the Buddha's practicing giving. you probably would, you know, if you saw a Buddha walking by, say, oh, what a great gift, a Buddha walking. Whew. You could say, does anybody, would anybody like the gift of a Buddha taking a little walk in front of us? Yeah, let's have it. That would be a wonderful gift to see a Buddha walking on this earth. Well, the Buddha... also feels like she's getting a gift by walking. And when she sits down, she feels like, well, now I'm going to give the gift of sitting. That'll be a nice gift.

[61:10]

When the Buddha stands up, the Buddha feels like this is a gift. So this is the way you practice with these forms to realize intimacy with them and to realize their emptiness, etc., you know, etc. Like, again, you practice these forms, but you don't praise yourself at the expense of another. So when you're practicing them, and also, you don't slander yourself either. So when you hit the mokugyo, you don't go, you stupid idiot, that was really terrible. You're a bum. You don't do that. And if you hear other people hitting the mokugyo, you don't say that about them either to yourself. You don't slander other chanters and other prostrators. You don't slander other sitters. You don't say, that's a really terrible posture they have. Or I should say, you might say it's a terrible posture, but you might say it in such a way that you wish everybody would be totally devoted to them by that comment.

[62:14]

Your intention would be, this person has terrible posture. Please help him, everybody. Please sign up to be his attendant and support him. Then it's not slander. But if my feeling is to degrade someone in my view of them, then I'm not careful of that precept. But if I'm not careful of that precept, then I confess, you know, I looked at somebody's posture the other day in the Zendo, and I kind of had a slanderous feeling about it. I kind of thought, that's like really below average posture. And I confess that. And I feel bad about thinking about somebody's posture that way. And I want to give up thinking about people that way, in a slanderous way, in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm totally devoted to that person. And also, when I'm chanting, it's not like, well, I'm chanting the right way, and it's pretty darn good, and they're chanting not such a good way, and I'm better than them.

[63:25]

Now, it's possible that you're chanting the agreed-upon way, and almost everyone would agree, including the people who aren't doing it that way, but you're not better than people who are doing it this other way. So I often use my grandson as an example. He often does things really differently from me in ways that most people would agree are not appropriate in the situation, but I'm able actually not to think I'm better than him. He's not yet able to not think he's better than me. but I'm able to not think I'm better than him occasionally even though in fact sometimes I can do things more skillfully than him. So this is another way to be intimate with our forms that we learn them well and somebody else doesn't know how to do them yet but we watch and make sure

[64:33]

to notice if we think, the fact that I know how to do this and they don't doesn't make me better than them. It's great that I know how to do this. I can give the gift of teaching people how to do it, but I'm not better than the people who haven't learned it yet. So this is being careful of what the forms. And in this way, again, we become intimate. Yeah. Whenever you see anything, anybody performing these forms, and a thought arises in your mind, that wasn't so beautiful. I think they could have done it some other way. There's an opportunity for intimacy there. It isn't that you should never think badly of someone. Because in fact, if we have forms, probably you will.

[65:35]

Or if you don't, somebody else will. It's going to happen here. And then we need to be honest about that and upright about that and gentle with that. Because again, you know, if you go outside of here, people are doing various kinds of really cruel things Right? So we need to be able to see those cruel things and say, that's really cruel, and be intimate with that thought that it's cruel in order to help protect beings from that cruelty. Yes.

[66:40]

If I have a form or a person, I feel anxiety, so I give a space. And also, I have a different form and different person. I don't feel so much anxiety, so I practice more involved, or I can enjoy doing the practicing the form or be around with that person. Is there any one case is more intimate than others? It's like having a lot of space because I feel the anxiety that itself is, you say, intimate? So, this is one question. Can you stop there? Can you remember your next question? Yeah. Okay, so stop. So, in some cases, when I'm with some people, I don't feel so much anxiety. And so I feel like the level of anxiety is such that I can be this close to that person. Or form, yeah.

[67:45]

I can do this, I can chant this, but I can't chant that. That's too complicated. If I try that, I'll be too anxious and I won't be able to practice giving and so on with that one. So maybe that one I will set aside for now. But setting aside in advanced practice can also be part of developing intimacy. But setting aside is so easy. Yeah, right, exactly. So one is not better than others? One is not, no, they're both part of the process. Excuse me, the first case though, it doesn't necessarily, intimacy per se, just because you're comfortable with someone, or just because you're comfortable with a form doesn't mean there's intimacy. Yeah. So it's possible that you feel comfortable with a form and you practice giving, carefulness, patience, concentration and wisdom with it.

[68:58]

Okay? And that you're intimate with it. But it's also possible that you're practicing a form and you don't feel very anxious, but you're not practicing giving. That you forget to practice giving. while you're doing the form. You forget to notice that you're practicing giving. You might even say, while you're practicing this form, I'm comfortable with this form and I would like to continue this form and I do not wish to give up this form because I'm comfortable with it. And if somebody asks me to do another form and give this one up, I will not do it. Then you're not intimate with this form. But if you're comfortable with a form, and you're relaxed and playful and generous, and someone says, would you give me that form? And you say, here, I'm happy to give it to you. Then I say, you've become intimate with that form. Can somebody else say, could I take that form and change it a lot?

[70:04]

And you might say yes, but you might also say no. No means I would like to give you the boundary of saying no. I don't want you to do that, but I'm not trying to control you. So that could be quite intimate. You could also be in another situation, your other example, where you're with someone, you feel tremendous anxiety, but you feel like you can be with the anxiety, that you can welcome the anxiety, and you do. And the thing that makes it intimate in the first case is the same as it makes it intimate in the second case. And in both cases you can welcome, in one case you can welcome the fairly comfortable way you feel with the form, in the other case you welcome the very uncomfortable feeling you have with the form. Both cases you're really welcoming the form and in both cases you're not attached to it. So if someone gives you a form and you feel tremendous anxiety and you welcome it and they say to you,

[71:05]

Would you give me that form? Could you please not hold onto that form? You might say, well, it's easy to say yes, Ben. But some people actually might say, no, I like being challenged. I don't want an easy form. So the key in both cases is, are you practicing, for example, generosity and wisdom with the situation where you feel quite comfortable? And are you practicing generosity and wisdom in a situation where you feel very uncomfortable? Like if you're with someone that's really sick, who you really love, it may be necessary because it's reality that you feel tremendously uncomfortable. with this person, but you feel able to be with them. But still, when I say be able to be with them, you feel able to welcome this discomfort that you have being with them, and you feel able to welcome their discomfort.

[72:11]

It isn't that you like your loved one to be in pain and disease. You don't like it. But you also don't dislike it. Maybe. If you dislike it, then again, you need to be intimate with the dislike by welcoming the dislike. And this is very helpful to them to find peace with their disease. That you can be with them, that you can be together with them and accept how you feel and be intimate with how you feel and you do not feel comfortable. Then you're intimate with them with the form of the pain. And that can be transmitted to them or they might be transmitting it to you. But you can do the same thing when you're comfortable with someone. Both cases you can do it. So to stay with some discomfort but not welcome it is not intimate. To not run away from discomfort is part of being intimate.

[73:20]

Being not moving when the discomfort comes, is part of the intimacy. But another part of it is to welcome it. And the same with... Well, welcoming is the first step in not moving. Not moving is the first step of welcoming. When you're a host, the first step of welcoming a guest is to not move, is to be there in the guest position and say welcome. And the same, again, to the example of you're comfortable with a form, to be intimate with a form you're comfortable with, you also have to be still. If you want to be intimate with a form that you're comfortable with, you must be still. If you want to be intimate with a form you're not comfortable with, you must be still. In both cases. If you're still and not moving with discomfort and welcome the discomfort, you're intimate with it.

[74:23]

If you're moving with the comfort, you're not intimate with it. If you're moving with the joy, you're not intimate with it. And you might say, I don't care if I'm intimate with it, I'm joyful. But still, You're not intimate if you're not unmoving with the joy and then welcoming the joy and so on. So you don't have to, you're not trying to get away from the joy but you're not intimate unless you are willing to be quiet and still with it and welcome it. And welcome it also means let it go. Letting it in is, in this case, goes with letting it go. And the same with pain. Letting the pain in, in the context of giving, is the same as letting it go. What's your second question?

[75:26]

It's so hard what I say. It's so hard to say? It's hard to do. It's actually kind of hard to say, too. It is hard to do. Again, some people have said, you know, the bodhisattva practice is the most grandiose idea that human beings have ever thought up. Do you know grandiose? Grandiose means like most grand, most amazing. Almost like, you know, totally heroic. Yeah, like impossible. Like, I wish to save all sentient beings. But the logic of the Bodhisattva path is about saving all beings. Because unless we commit to all beings, we won't be able to realize emptiness. If we limit our commitment to what is reasonable, it's okay to make a reasonable commitment.

[76:35]

That's fine. But if you stop there, then there's still some holdout of self-clinging. And you can become attached to the bodhisattva vow, too. But we still need that vow in order to not be attached. That's what I think. We've got the vow. And so now the hard work of practicing here this practice period with everybody and all the forms and all the temperatures. And I also wanted to say that I have committed to four excursions out of this valley this fall. And the first one is now.

[77:36]

So today around noon I'm going to go to Santa Barbara to, if you excuse the expression, to discuss the same teachings that we have here with people down in Santa Barbara who haven't seen me for a while and they want to. And then when I get back in the following weekend, I'm going up to another retreat and also attend my youngest daughter's birthday party. I said, I don't know if I can go to Thanksgiving on your birthday, which is most important for you? And she said, birthday. So I'm not going to go out for Thanksgiving, but I'm going up there for that. And then I'm going to do another retreat in November. I'm going to do two retreats in November, one November 5th and one November 19th and 20th, 21st.

[78:47]

So I request that you allow me to go and do these retreats. But I don't expect you to. Support me.

[79:00]

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