I thought tonight, well, I'll give you a little background first. There's this picture of the development of the practices of a Bodhisattva, the practices which make Buddhas. Actually, well... I mean, I've drawn this circle before. It's this and that. This part, half the circle is sometimes called in Chinese for it. It's like, just like this. This means going up, and this character means attaining.

[01:03]

To go up and attain is the first half of the circle. Then the second half is called to come down. This means to bend down and transform. Come down and transform beings. And the Voisapha career is to go round and round in a circle, to go up and attain, come down and transform. One does this long enough, one realizes perfect enlightenment. All Buddhas have to go round and round like this for a long time. Yes. It's in Dogen. It's also, I think, in various Mayan scriptures.

[02:06]

I could research it and see if I can find out where it's from. I have no offhand, like, the classic, what is it, locus classicus of it or something. So I would say that this whole process, the whole process here, is what we call the Buddha way. And the Buddha way, as Dobin says, is to study the Buddha way, to learn the Buddha way, is to study the self. So studying the self is involved in this whole circle here. Studying the self is involved in going up and attaining, and coming down and transforming. Going up and attaining, what do you think it is that you attain at that time, by the way? What do you think that would be? What? You always have emptiness. You've always attained emptiness. Understanding?

[03:11]

Understanding, yeah. Understanding emptiness. Realizing emptiness. Also sometimes called nirvana. So you go up and attain nirvana. And then, because of the bodhisattva vow, by practicing the bodhisattva way, you put a little chip in your heart, which says, if you ever find me in nirvana, remember, take me back down to the wood. So the force of the bodhisattva Professor Bodhisattva Vile supports us to do the practices which lead us to nirvana. And they bring us there with enough momentum that we don't come in sort of standing. We don't come into a dead stop. We come in with some momentum. And because of that, we don't stay in nirvana and go back to bed. Now, there is another form of practice, apparently, about some people who send themselves up towards nirvana and they calculate it so that when they get there, they won't have any extra momentum and they'll stop on nirvana.

[04:26]

This is called arhat. And the funny thing is, ladies and gentlemen, that our great founder was an arhat. He stopped on that dime. What's the great founder? Which guy founder? Shakyamuni Buddha. He stopped at that place. Now, many previous lives he had gone round and round and round. But in this particular one where he was Shakyamuni, he went around and stopped the nirvana at one point. And we're now in the process of, you know, meditating on his nirvana. He attained two nirvanas, in a sense. One he attained when he was about 29, or was he 35? And the other one he attained when he died. But the Buddha didn't. Shakyamuni Buddha, you don't hear about Shakyamuni Buddha coming back as so-and-so.

[05:28]

He apparently, part of the story is that he actually stopped. He didn't keep going round and round. He had finished his evolution. We are not Shakyamuni Buddha, so we don't have to stop. We don't have to worry about having a lot of momentum and kind of overshooting Nirvana. He stopped when he died. He was not reborn. Right? Some people say actually he's studying someplace. Still working on the practice. But I think that's really a dear thought. But in some sense, you know, strictly speaking, most Buddhists say Chakyamuni Buddha is not around anymore. He's done for.

[06:31]

The transform and transform all beings. Transform beings. The whole process is transforming yourself. But the first part of the process, you're not so much working on transforming others, you're mostly working on transforming yourself. And actually not transforming yourself, you're basically working on dropping yourself. The first part of this is the detachment Detachment. Detachment. It's a practice of selflessness. It's reversing, trying to reverse the way we do things and go the opposite direction. Learning the backwards step and doing the practices which will deepen our willingness to drop body and mind. So at this point, at the top of the circle, body and mind is dropped.

[07:37]

Yeah. How can you reach the high point there in the circle and not save all beings? Or how could you not return to the world? Is it a different world? Well, so Douglas says, study the way is to study the self. So you study the self. And study the self is to forget the self. And to forget the self means everything confirms you. Shakyamuni Buddha had that experience when he was awakened that everything confirmed him. In other words... He saw everything with the Buddha nature. So when you are confirmed by everything, you also appreciate everybody. So in a sense, you save everybody. OK. However, the meaning of that, and then again he says the meaning of everything confirming you, is that you actually, what Cleary's translation is that you

[08:55]

it is a causing being confirmed or realized by everything or enlightened by everything is causing the body and mind of oneself and others to drop off and so however at this sorry that is causing other bodies to drop off too However, in that sense, you could say that dropping off is coming back down too, back into the world, that dropping off will continue back into here. Dogen also says after that, that there are different translations, but translation I'm going to read to you is, there is a ceasing of traces of enlightenment. after the body-mind of yourself and others is dropped off, there is a ceasing of traces of enlightenment, which causes one to forever leave the traces of enlightenment, which are cessation.

[10:12]

So you leave the traces of enlightenment. The traces of enlightenment are attaining nirvana. Attaining nirvana is a trace of enlightenment. Cessation, stopping, is a trace of enlightenment. You leave the traces of enlightenment. How can you have a trace in cessation? Cessation is the trace. You don't have cessation. You leave cessation behind. and you enter the world and transform beings. So, coming back, there should not be a trace, there should be no sign of cessation in the Bodhisattva. When the Bodhisattva comes down, there's no sign, there's no trace, there's no cessation apparent. There's no traces of the awakening. You're really completely back in the world.

[11:18]

Yes. It could be a cycle in our actual, say, to live 50 years. It could be a cycle basically within those 50 years. Yes. It could be. You don't necessarily have to die. No, you do not have to die to do this. Because actually, in one lifetime, in one week, in one day, in one hour, in one minute, you can go off in a pain. and come down and transform. Well, it looks like somebody who doesn't have any problems. I think that's one way. Cessation is something which you could see. It would be a trace. The Buddha says in the Dhamma Sutra that you cannot see the Buddha by any marks. You could not spot the Buddha by a trace. The Buddha wouldn't look like cessation.

[12:21]

Except that the Buddha, when the Buddha died, the Buddha took cessation. But that was basically the only time he did that. The only time he looked like cessation was at that time. All the time he was working to help people, he wasn't really, he wasn't like going around supporting cessation, looking like he was ceased. In other words, his teaching was free of the trace of his liberation. And he kept deliberating himself and transforming beings, his full teaching career. Actually, what I was pretending to do tonight was not so much concentrate on the wonders of the fact that the bodhisattvas don't hang out in nirvana.

[13:30]

I was actually going to concentrate more on getting to nirvana If that's okay, unless you want to talk more about post-Nirvana activity. Basically, Nirvana means detachment. That you really detach. That you drop... I mean, there's so many definitions of Nirvana. I thought... Um... There's many, yeah, there's many definitions, but the one I would use is dropping body and mind. It's not referring to something that happens after that? No, there's two kinds of nirvana. Well, in a sense, there's three kinds, but basically two kinds. One kind is called, well, like the nirvana that Shakyamuni Buddha had under the poetry. That was nirvana. That's called nirvana by effort. Pratisamkya Naroda, a cessation, which is a liberation.

[14:35]

And it's different from in what? It's the same thing. It's the same, except that for a bodhisattva realizing that stage one doesn't stay there. So technically speaking, when Shakyamuni Buddha attained that nirvana, he was not yet Buddha. He became Buddha when he started teaching. And also he had spent many lifetimes cycling around like this before that. But even so, his Buddha activity was not complete. It wasn't like he himself attained liberation and that was Buddha. That was Nirvana. And he had a great realization that he became Buddha when he started teaching. And one way of talking about what Buddha is is not that Buddha is up here and Buddha comes down and transforms beings, but that the transformation of beings is Buddha's activity.

[15:39]

However, Buddha's activity is also going up and attaining. Buddha's activity is also to realize nirvana. On one side, Buddha is practicing detachment all the time. Buddha is detached, practicing non-attachment all the time. That's part of what Buddha is, that's the going up part. The other part of Buddha is not so much that the Buddha is now transforming beings, but that detachment transforms beings and that makes Buddha. So nirvana is basically a complete detachment. And if the detachment has no traces of the detachment, That's called studying the Buddha way, because the detachment doesn't stay in nirvana. It functions as transformation of beings. However, it doesn't just transform beings, it transforms beings, and in the next moment, it practices detachment.

[16:42]

So it practices detachment and transforms beings, and practices detachment and transforms beings. This is the path of the bodhisattva, which is a warm-up to the practice of a Buddha. What's the difference besides the thing about that? What's the difference between a Buddha and a Bodhisattva, and how you're using it? Shakyamuni Buddha, going around this cycle many times, when he attained nirvana under the bowtree, when he started teaching, I guess, apparently, he was very successful. His detachment was so profound and so well worked out that that's about all there was. That's about all the guy was with detachment. And his traces of his detachment were all so well eliminated that when he interacted with beings he was very successful at transforming you.

[17:44]

Bodhisattvas have a range of ability to transform. Some bodhisattvas have attained some liberation and that part of them which is liberated, which also then carries forward, can transform. But other parts of them, so to speak, are not liberated Some habits have not been worked through. So they sometimes get stuck in attachment. They have to work in some way. So the Buddha was basically extremely highly developed, Bodhisattva, to the point that he seemed to enlighten people just like that, left and right. Almost everybody he met, he seemed to be able to wake up. And some of his disciples were like that too, like the six patriarchs seemed to just enlighten a lot of people, like just boom. I mean, thoroughly liberate them, you know, in a big way. Not necessarily to make them Buddhas, but to set them really free.

[18:46]

Very social skillful, just know just the right thing. And that's, enlightenment means that you can really help people. You have no problems of devoting yourself to it. Plus, you know, just the right thing to do. Or you not know, but you just do the right thing. You do the appropriate thing. So, again, people say, what was Buddha's career? And Yun-man said, appropriate statement. He always made the appropriate thing, the thing which liberated people. And some bodhisattvas are like that, too. In other words, some bodhisattvas evolved to a level where basically they're like a Buddha. Some of Buddha's disciples have become like that, like they would have liberated hundreds and hundreds of people and helped thousands and thousands. People who, even Buddha couldn't liberate everybody because not everybody was ready. And even Buddha couldn't overcome certain kinds of patterns.

[19:50]

But a lot of people who were somewhere in the neighborhood of being released, he could help them. That's basically the difference. Is this detachment and transformation? Are they typically that? Uh... You can practice, yeah. I mean, that's what I was going to do. I was going to talk about detachment type of practices. And you can maybe see what detachment practices are like versus practices of helping people. For example, strictly speaking, I wouldn't say that, you know, practicing generosity is not a detachment practice. But to tell you the truth, although it is quite helpful in practicing detachment, too, Practice of giving is quite good in helping develop attachment. But it's primarily to help other people. It's primarily to turn other people around. Giving is. So, why do I say that?

[20:54]

Anyway, it's twofold. One is to overcome your stinginess as a practitioner, to work on your own stinginess, to transform yourself. But the other one is to transform other beings. Whereas some of these practices, which I was going to mention, don't so much, other people don't necessarily even notice them. So maybe if I just talk about these, you could see the difference. And the reason why I wanted to do this was because these practices are in the last teachings of the Buddha. I don't know if you recognize, it's a little bit different there, but anyway, in the last teaching of the Buddha, he mentions to have few desires, to be contented, to enjoy quiet, to make diligent right effort, to practice mindfulness, to unify the mind, to develop wisdom, and to stop unnecessary chatter or waste, you know, vain talk.

[22:06]

Did you notice that? Did you remember hearing that? I don't know if you heard it, but anyway, those are eight methods that he taught in his last teachings, and those are basically methods for detachment for going up and attaining. Whereas, for example, giving, speaking kindly to people, these kinds of things are more to try to transform beings. See the difference? And also, if you haven't realized detachment, and you practice kind speech and so on, it won't necessarily be effective. Can you imagine why? Does that make sense to you? If you haven't realized attachment, in other words, if you haven't reversed your whole motivation in your life, then even if you practice some of these good practices,

[23:13]

they won't necessarily be very effective. If you try to practice kind speech, for example, or giving, but you're still coming from basically attachment, then you won't be very effective. On the other hand, if you have done this, you'll be much more effective. That's one thing, yeah. Like, for example, you can give something to someone, and then they, if you want something back, or you hope that they use it well, for example. Like that story of Kana Diva giving away one of his eyes. And then he's told, you know, no matter what happens, don't regret giving it away. So he gives away one of his eyes to a beggar, and the beggar, you know, smashes the eyeball in a stump. He looks back and regrets having given it away. So then he doesn't get his eye back. That's why he's called Kanadaiba, which means one-eyed deity.

[24:18]

Before that, he was called noble deity. But he regretted, he was told, you know, when you give a gift, you will be asked to give a great gift. But no matter what happens, don't regret it. But he did, because the FDA still some little shred there of attachment to his gift. And he hoped, well, at least I hope it grew bigger. He uses it well. That's still a normal, you know, attached point of view. So that didn't help. That was a problem he had in that one. Yeah. Well, that has something to do with what I asked if they're different. I definitely could see how practices can have different emphasis and can look different in certain ways. But it seems to me that with true detachment, In a situation with others, there is naturally true giving. And in true giving, there is the must-be-present true attachment. So, seeing there's really different things or different stages is problematic for me.

[25:24]

Well, it's a circle. See, it's a circle. But it seems like a circle's happening at one time. It's not like you can be over here or be over there. Well, no. Some people are over on this side, and they're not over on this side. They're doing practices which are like bodhisattva practices, and they haven't done this side. Like, they're practicing giving. Are they really? Is it the same giving? They're trying to practice giving, but their attention, which is good, is a wholesome thing, and you accumulate... If you try to give, and you really do want to give, and you really enjoy giving... At that time, the joy in your giving is very meritorious to you. It might be helpful to the person you give to, too. It depends. It might hardly even notice it. Like, I can think of giving you things, and I can think of giving you a mountain around here as a present, okay? And I can really like that, and that's good for me.

[26:27]

That's meritorious for me. But it may not be very helpful to you, okay? However, even though I thought that thought, and it was very good for me, makes me happy, and shows me how much fun it is, and how good it is to think of generosity and giving things away, that helps me and is very good for me, and eventually it will be good for you, but I could still not be practicing attachment at that time very much. I could still have big, heavy-duty attachments that have not been touched. That's why, although giving is exactly the same as enlightenment, that wanting to... When I think of giving you something, and I feel good about that, that's enlightenment, basically. That's exactly how a Buddha would feel, okay? But I can want to give you that and be very happy about it, and that's his enlightenment. And still, the next moment, I basically, he hits something else which I'm not ready to give, and I don't give it. And I'm not going to give it. And I might do all kinds of weird things around not giving it, because I haven't been practicing detachment, too.

[27:32]

So, at the moment of giving in that way, detachment's there. But if I haven't been doing these practices of detachment... then turn the dial slightly differently, and I'm stuck. So it's like a developmental point of view, separate, but in a non-time point of view. Correct. And Shakyamuni Buddha, as he was dying, told his disciples eight practices to do to develop detachment, to enter nirvana, basically, to go to nirvana. So that's what I thought I would talk about tonight, those eight practices. This is kind of tiny in more ways than one. Well, there's some questions before that. Mary, did you have a question? Well, I was wondering about these practices that we want to do.

[28:34]

Okay, where does patient fit into these practices? Well, before, in his last instructions, before he got to these, just before that, he was talking about practicing patients. Did you hear this thing? Yeah. So he talks about how, the Buddha talks about how devastating anger is, how can white boy everything. So, and... Patience is the bedrock of these practices. You can't do these practices if you don't practice patience. But patience itself, in a sense, you know, everything is connected, so this is an arbitrary distinction, right? You really can't separate patience from anything in Buddhism. If you don't practice patience, the whole thing is shot. But still, patience itself is not really a detachment practice. It's basically more of an acceptance. Patience basically means giving yourself the capacity to have your experiences is what it's about.

[29:38]

It's about kind of letting yourself be in the present. Mostly what it's about. And when you're in the present, all kinds of wonderful things happen. You get a lot of energy, you're not afraid, stuff like that. But you could have a lot of energy and not be afraid and still these practices would still be sitting there waiting for you to do them. Like, for example, you could be in the present, not afraid, and still want something excessively, or want a lot of stuff. It'd be possible, I think. I think some people are quite good at practicing patients and still want to be famous Zen masters. still want to be famous Zen masters, you know. They get good at sitting and accepting their own pain. They can sit like really, really sit in the middle of their circumstances. Not just, you know, all kinds of pain and they can be quite present there and they still, there still can be some kind of wish to gain something. But in that moment of wishing for something else, they're not accepting their situation.

[30:42]

Well, like you say, you know, like I said, like I said, it's all connected, right? But still, if you take any practice all the way, then all of the practices are included. But in fact, if you're actually practicing patients, if you don't do these practices, that would be good that you practice patients, but you might not move towards detachment. if you did patience, you know, absolutely completely, you would get to the place where you would patiently accept the truth that nothing's happening. Finally. And, well, then, if you accepted that, if you really accepted the truth that nothing's happening, then you certainly wouldn't be susceptible to any gain anymore or loss. But it's possible to practice patience with pain And insult, which is extremely good that you do that, extremely good, but still not having accepted that nothing really is, that dharmas are not being produced.

[31:46]

That's possible. And be completely, you know, like some of these guys or some of these gals that, you know, that you could chop them up. And while you're chopping them up, they would not think, you turkey. You know, you're really lousy. None of that, but it's not a sharp knife. You creep. They didn't think that kind of stuff. They just let these people cut them up into little pieces. Well, I don't know if they let them. Maybe they were forced, but they did not get angry. Some of these people got so good at patience that you could cut them up and they wouldn't get angry. Because they actually, Buddhists said not to do that, and they actually didn't do it. And they worked their way up to that stuff. What? How good is that? No, being cut up in little pieces is not the good part. I don't think that's true, that if you get angry, you don't get cut up. I think some people get cut up and are really angry while they're being cut up.

[32:51]

I have no idea what the percentage is of the people that are being cut up, how many of them are angry, but most people I think most people I know, when you start cutting on them, they get angry. And some of them, I suppose, if they get angry, that motivates them to get away from being cut. But I think you can get away from being cut without getting angry. You can run away even before the knife gets anywhere near you. That may be more effective than getting angry. I don't know. But some situations anyway, we all will get to the place where we are going to be cut up in little pieces. It's going to happen to all of us. It's unavoidable, right? It's coming, right? You understand what I mean? The big cutting is coming. We're going to get shredded. It's coming, and it's coming fairly soon. I'm 50, and the 50 years have not taken that long. So probably in about the same amount of not very long, I'm going to be gone. And somewhere along there, I plan on going into some heavy changes.

[33:55]

So... At that time, I hope I don't get angry at my body or other people or my relatives or the doctors or the nurses or the Buddhists or whatever. I hope I actually realize that this is inevitable at some point and that I handle it with patience and detachment. That's what I hope. I think that would be helpful to not get angry when I'm being cut up. I don't think getting cut up is all that hot. That's part of the deal though. of life is that you get consumed by fire or bugs or whatever, you know, or cancer. The big wave's coming. So when it comes, you have your choice. You can be angry or you can be cool and happy. What do you think, Baron? What doesn't sound very good?

[35:01]

What doesn't sound very good? Oh, no, I'm not saying getting cut up is good. Believe me, I don't think it's good. I don't think having a headache is good. You know, I have a hard time when I get a headache, continuing to be patient. Yeah, well, that's the most difficult part of patience. Aside from accepting that all dharmas don't even come up, the most difficult part of patience is insults. It's more difficult for people than physical hardship. But it's also, well, I don't know if it's more difficult, but it's the most dangerous kind, too, because even if you get angry at a mountain for being tall or the weather for being cold, it doesn't really hurt the weather that much to get angry at it. But if you get angry at somebody for insulting you, then it's bad because not only are you upset, but you can then hurt the other person.

[36:07]

So when people insult you, it's a particularly dangerous situation because you have the potential of hurting yourself and the other person. So physical hardships are one thing to be patient with, like with your own body in terms of physical joint pain and stuff like that, cold weather. That's good. But the most dangerous part is when people insult you. So basically it is insult. If they're hitting you, it's not as difficult in some ways as if they're insulting you. Most anger I hear about at Zen Center is not from people getting hit by other people, but by being insulted by other people. It's most of the anger around here. So it's very difficult. But I'm not saying insult is good. I'm not saying being cut up is good. However, the practice of patience says that.

[37:08]

I don't say that. The practice of patience says, oh, goody, now I can practice patience. That's not me thinking that way or not my opinion. That's the mind of the patience. That when something's already happening, it says, oh, now I have a chance to practice patience. And I wouldn't be able to do it if this difficulty wasn't happening. Ah, great. Yes? Hi. Right. Explain it in what context? Or just by itself, all uncontextualized? Or in some context? You tell me a context, I'll explain it. Yeah.

[38:09]

I think I heard that when Hanako was dying, he said that it was a tantrum that it was a diet requiring that that could happen. And I was always struck by that. That could be a context. Yeah, well, I don't know what to say. You can just explain how it is. And also, can you hear what's for me? You know, that consciousness, like, you know, the rising, like that. And so they like that, and they have to keep it here. after the turn of the reflection, and noticing . But he had said, no, don't disappear. So is that in the very large picture, nothing alive with nothing? I can only understand it when you're very, very large in the picture, nothing like the increase of the beacon.

[39:16]

But I don't understand it Well, one way I explain it right now is that people don't seem to have, people have trouble accepting what arises. But people do not seem to have problem accepting that things arise. That doesn't seem to be the problem. It's just we have a problem with certain things that arise, but we don't have a problem with basically the appearance of things. That things appear is not the problem, usually, right? If pain comes up, it's not that it appeared that bothers us, but that it's pain. So we basically accept that things arise, that things apparently arise, as most people accept that. As a matter of fact, most people believe that very deeply. But people do not accept that things do not arise, generally speaking. So, as you say, things don't arise, then people accept it.

[40:17]

Is it the same saying that things don't disappear? Yes, it's the same. People also accept that things disappear. And again, it's not so much like if something you like disappears, it's not so much that it disappears, that what bothers you, it's that you like it and it disappeared. You accept that it disappeared. You accept that. You believe that. You do not have a problem with the philosophy of disappearance. I didn't know. I did not say that things don't arise. I did not. Did I say that? I didn't say that, did I? Ha, ha, ha. I didn't say that. I don't say that things arise. I don't say they don't arise. I don't say that. I'm saying people believe that they arise and people believe they go away, right?

[41:18]

They accept that and they believe that. What people have trouble with is they have trouble with accepting that things don't arise and don't go away. That's what people have trouble accepting. What? No, I don't say that. I say people have trouble accepting that. It's not true that things, you know, don't arise or do arise. That's not true. That things don't arise, let's put it this way, that things arise and go away is conventional reality. People accept that. That things don't arise and don't go away is ultimate reality. Okay? But I don't go around saying ultimate reality and relative reality. I don't say that stuff. But that's not my business. You guys know about what ultimate reality is. We chanted during the memorial services.

[42:20]

In the Dharma realm, there's no coming or going, no increase or decrease. But I don't have to say that, do I? It's not my job. My job is to say, you people don't believe that. You people don't accept that. I don't go around saying the Heart Sutra. I don't go around saying no eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue. When you see it, you chant that. You do that part. Somebody else said that. Avalokiteshvara said that. What I say is, you people don't believe that. My job is to tell you that you don't believe the Heart Sutra. I don't have to say the Heart Sutra, although I do say it sort of with you, but I'm not telling you the Heart Sutra. What I'm telling you is you don't believe the Heart Sutra. You don't accept the Heart Sutra. That's what I'm saying. Okay? So I'm saying people are impatient with the Heart Sutra. They don't accept that there's no increase or decrease. They do accept that there is increase and there is decrease. Most people accept that very well and believe it very tenaciously.

[43:23]

They have problems with certain things increasing and certain things decreasing now. But if you just change what the thing is, they're happy about it. But they don't have a problem. Most people do not have like a, aren't tormented by their belief. They don't think that they're tormented. They don't think that the problems that they have in life is that they believe that things increase and decrease. But actually, that is our problem. That's the source of our misery. We believe that. And not only do we believe that, but we do not accept the other side of the story. We don't really accept it. But I'm not going around saying ultimate truth, because it's just funny for me to talk, go around and say ultimate truth, then people think, you know, then people say, well, Reb said there's no coming or going, so I'm leaving Tazahara. Or I'm coming to Tazahara without even applying, because he said no coming or going. So I'm not going to say that stuff. Blame it on the Heart Sutra, not me. But also, I don't want people going on saying, well, Reb says things do come and go.

[44:27]

I don't want to take the rap for that either. I'm not taking rap for conventional reality. It's there already. I don't have to say it. Yeah. When you're saying that your job is to tell us that we don't believe it or it's... The heart future? Yeah. The interesting thing in that for me is that it applies, those words seem to imply to me that it's like an active thing, like me choose, I choose not to believe, and I choose not to accept. Because when I think of it, I think of my relationship with the heart future is I have this kind of vague sense of it, but I don't have an understanding of it. So, like belief and acceptance. So I think of that more as Somewhere in there, I have this responsibility that I'm right. Right. Right. And, you know, sorry, but that's implied here. This is an active rebellion against the Heart Sutra.

[45:32]

Even here in the deep mountains, people are rebelling against the Heart Sutra. We don't like it. We're actively opposing it. Not sort of like, oh, well, you know. It's an active fight against it. We don't accept it. And we don't have to work at believing the opposite. It comes naturally. But we're still doing it moment after moment. We're doing the same old thing. We're so good at it. I'd like to use the word surrender in a different way than, like, submission. I know, but I'm just saying that, but in case I'm making that talk about submission, I think that if you actually, like, you know, hold up your hand and drop your attachments, that's the end of it. If they, um... It's not exactly action, but more like, uh... It's really just, I don't know, what is it?

[46:39]

It's giving up your attachment. It's letting go. It's letting go. And just being with what you really are. It's clearly observing what that means. Completely. And that's a very, you know, that's all these wonderful practices of attachment and patience and courage and honesty and all that stuff are packed into basic thing of just according with section.

[47:40]

Being touched by that? It's half of a religious experience. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. It's half of the mystery. Half of the mystery is that there is a universe that seems to be appearing. The other half of the mystery is there isn't a universe. But that there isn't a universe, although it's ultimate, that's not the whole story. It's more interesting than that.

[48:42]

It's also that this thing seems to be happening. It's also that part. And another part of the mystery is that we believe that it's happening. That's more part of the mystery. Not just that it is happening, because it's not that it is happening. It's more that we believe it's happening. And because we believe it's happening, it is happening. It has existence. It kind of has a being, because we think it does. And that's part of the wonderful mystery of the whole thing. That's part of the human, that's part of our deal. That's part of our deal, that it doesn't happen. Any rainbow. And they don't come up and they don't go away. And consciousness doesn't come up and consciousness doesn't go away. Things don't last and they aren't destroyed. There is a constant production of stuff that isn't existing.

[49:46]

That's part of the wonder. And so that's kind of a religious experience. Conventional reality is a kind of religious experience. That's why Buddhists don't put down conventional reality, because it's inseparable from religious experience. But you've got to work harder than that to be happy and save all the beings in the universe. In my experience, the difference you're talking about, that it isn't actually half. Because if it was just the half of things being there, then I don't think it would be a mystery. I think that the fact that it seems so strange that things are there, it's incorporating the fact that they're not there. That's why it's so strange that they're there. I think it's too good. Yeah, go ahead. It's the contradiction of the fact that you just talked You think it's the whole works?

[50:46]

What is that? Huh? Yeah, what is it? What? Well, ask me. It's the mystery. It's the mystery, right? He thinks it's the whole mystery. The conventional reality is the whole mystery. No, no, no. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that experience you're describing may not be just about conventional reality. Oh, I see. But you could also say convention reality is the whole mystery because the whole works. Convention reality is only all we've got. Because ultimate reality is not giving us anything, right? Yeah, that's right. Once you realize that math, if the whole works, then there's not really anything, not really just math there anymore.

[51:52]

There's everything there. But there really isn't anything called math anymore. We'll do anything to avoid talking about the practices of attachment. They're so yucky. They're so yucky. They're so kind of like, oh, please. Having cute desires. Come on, I know about that. Come on, what are you doing? No, I'm stopping the train. I can't stand this anymore. I really can't. Okay, stop the train. I understand. What told us are we going to teach us something, and before we repeat the second question, I wonder if you could say, okay, we're not going to do this tonight, and then I can sort of tune into them, but I'm just having a really hard time tuning into everybody's individual little reality while I'm trying to hear the particular thing here. Okay. So it's really hard for me to hear them right now, so I'm sure you know. What are you doing now, Michael? Crunched?

[53:02]

Crunched. Well, you can keep doing that. I just wonder if you... How about just one more and see if we can do it after that. Can I ask him a question first? Yeah, Matt, you want to ask me a question? No, Michael, I want to ask Michael. Okay, go ahead. I want to thank you all tonight. Yes. Thank you very much. Do you want Regina a question? Yeah. Did anybody eat Evelyn? Okay. Okay, ready? Are you ready, Michael? Well, actually, I think that... When you talked about it, I was worried about that same thing. Same thing.

[54:04]

That's what it means. That's what it means. When a hardship just says, no eyes, or all down on them marked by emptiness, doesn't mean that they're not there. It means that they're empty or inherent in existence, that their disappearance, they're not really there. That's what it means by no eyes. However, we don't accept that either. America, it would be easier for us to accept that there weren't eyes than to accept what real eyes are like. Because no eyes is just, you know, disappearance of eyes. but the no eyes and the heart picture is much more dynamic and frightening than that. So here are these, can we go on to these seven, eight practices? Huh? At least one or two of them, yeah. Right. But before we get into them, I want to read what Buddha said about them. And that is, he said, I'm going to see what Dogen says about them.

[55:05]

He says... After Shakyamuni Buddha said, you know, you monks should be single-mindedly seek the path of emancipation. All things in the world, moving and not moving, are unstable and they disintegrate. Stop now, don't talk anymore. The time has passed, I'm going to cross over into extinction. This is my last instruction. And Dogen says, therefore students of Buddha definitely should learn these eight practices, these eight principles. Those who do not learn them, who do not know them, are not students of Buddha. These awarenesses, these eight awarenesses, are the Buddha's treasury of I, true teaching, and the sublime heart of nirvana. The fact that many people now nevertheless do not know about these and few have read or heard about them is due to the interference of demons.

[56:07]

But you people have heard about these things. Therefore those demons which are interfering with you hearing them are gone. But I think, excuse me for saying so, that there are some other demons that are buzzing around near your ear which say something against these practices. So, some demons will be talking against me reading this now. Okay. Buddhas are great people. They're the nicest people you could ever meet. As these... are what is realized by great people. They are called the awarenesses of great people. Realizing these principles is based on nirvana. This is the final teaching of our original teacher, Shakyamuni Buddha, the night he passed away in the final extinction.

[57:10]

Number one, having few desires. This is Dogen. Not excessively Seeking objects of desire, not excessively seeking objects of desire, not yet attained, is having few desires. Not excessively seeking objects of desire, not yet attained. So the issue there is, what does excessively mean? There's an issue here, a big issue in the Buddhist practice of not excessively seeking objects of desire. So apparently, before we read what Buddha said, which you've already heard before, but we can read it again, it's okay to desire some objects that you have not yet attained.

[58:11]

That's okay. For example, you can desire breakfast tomorrow. But you're not supposed to be excessively desirable. Such a simple, boring practice. Anyway, it seems to be very important that Buddha happened to mention this. The last thing he had to say was about this particular point. And then Buddha said, you monks should know that people with many desires seek to gain a lot. And therefore, their afflictions are many. those with few desires have no seeking and craving they don't have this problem you should cultivate having few desires even for this reason alone to say nothing of the fact that having few desires can produce virtue so there's two things good about practicing few desires one is you avoid all this misery but also in addition to that it develops virtue the double benefit

[59:21]

People with due desires are free from flattery and deviousness, whereby they might seek to curry people's favor, and they also are not under the compulsion of their senses. Those who act with due desires are calm, without worry or fear. Whatever the situation, there is more than enough. There is never insufficiency. Those who have few desires have nirvana. Think of them apples. Did he say that? People. Those who act with few desires are calm. people who with few desires are free-pronged.

[60:22]

You should cultivate having few desires, even for this reason alone, namely... Let's try it right now, shall we? Anybody have any desires? Yeah? Yeah, right, so... I thought maybe we could start with a desire and then see if it was excessive. So that was that? Was that excessive? It didn't seem that bad to me. How do you feel? I think it's all right. Ask a question. Want to know what excessive means? I thought so too. I didn't think that was that bad. Those who have few desires have Nirvana. Okay. So we'll check in later whether that was Nirvana, yes? He'd like some money.

[61:25]

How much money do you want? Well, that's a good example. How do you feel? Is that enough? Is that Nirvana? Are you okay with that? Okay, now we may have some problem here. What more do you want? It's getting bigger. Why not? So now he's sitting there doing that. Now, does this sound like, is this getting excessive, do you think? Everything is where $100 is.

[62:32]

$100. What is it? Well, I thought that you wanted the money, that by itself sounded okay. Something you desired an object, you wanted money, that sounded fine. He gave you a quarter, and that seemed fine, and then you wanted more. And then when you started talking, it sounded, to me, it sounded, you know, sounded kind of excessive. It started getting excessive. Well, it said, you know, these people want to gain a lot, not just a quarter. you want money, right? But you don't just want money, you want several quarters, or you want a lot of quarters. Like, how many is a lot of quarters? I don't know. Eight? Eight? A million? A million is a lot of quarters.

[63:32]

Right, now, that's the part... For the sake of other being, you could get a million quarters. Okay? But in their detachment, prior to that, in trying to get all those quarters for the people, you're doing fundraising and pretension or something, is there really detachment beforehand? Do you actually yourself, this is for yourself, okay? For yourself, do you have two desires? So again, for wanting to know what we mean by excessive, I don't think that's excessive. And I kind of feel like for me, I don't think there's that much difference between Nirvana and wanting to know what it says to be in this particular case. I think that Nirvana and that desire are pretty much synonymous. But now, if we give him some examples now, right? And if he keeps, at a certain point, he might want to know too much about what excessive means. He might go, like, look, we already told you, Steve, what it is. We gave you 19 examples.

[64:41]

That's enough. Then I want more examples. I want to be the world's expert. I want to write a book on what excessive means. He might go, look, that's what excessive means. And you're being excessive. And we don't like you anymore. And that's when you lost your nirvana. Because you didn't like them. Well, that's just sort of part of the landscape of the ocean. You're not being in nirvana, but you're not in nirvana. You're surrounded by people who don't like you and you want them to like you a lot. Yeah, you want them to not to, you know, after a while you don't, not even stop disliking you. You want them to love you. You want them all to love you now. That's excessive. an excessive desire. I think everybody wants somebody to love them, and some people want a lot of people to love them, but to want it to happen soon might be excessive, might be unreasonable. In other words, it might be a natural thing for people to want people to love them. That's maybe just something we should accept.

[65:43]

In other words, a normal person could practice Buddhism because they would have that desire. But to want it, you know, by tomorrow morning, that would be excessive, I think. But to want one person to like you sometime in the next week or year or something, that doesn't seem to be excessive to me. But maybe it is, but I don't think so. I think that's reasonable. But you can sort of work your way up to everybody in that way. Yeah. But excessively, that the desire for whatever it may be causes you to stress. Yeah, that's one of the ways you can spot excessive is that it makes you unhappy. And also another way to spot it is that it depletes virtue. Depletes virtue. Knocks your energy down. Makes you lazy. Makes you, you know, makes practicing other virtues more difficult.

[66:46]

So tomorrow morning we're going to have breakfast. I don't know what it's going to, I do know what it's going to be, but it's a secret. And so whatever it is, it'll appear, and then you people will all be able to watch what it is. And you can watch, you know, some of you may have some desires around that. And some of you, like I have a desire not to get fat. So my desire to get fat sometimes might become excessive vis-a-vis what's being served, because maybe I should eat something for my health. So my desire to have not a fat body might get excessive, and I may not eat enough. of the delicious foods which have all the important nutrients in them. So what I tend to do is I tend to go heavy on high-nutrient stuff, like cooked vegetables. Well, see, to me, if you go to Sizzler, the reason to go to Sizzler, to my point of view, would be that you can eat all you want, right?

[67:51]

Yeah, maybe you can go stay at the sound bar all day, can't you? And that's what I like about the system. I don't want to do that. I'll get sick. A regular restaurant, you can't do that, so I'm safe, right? Now, well, yeah. Yeah, Denny. You can also, at Zen Center, eat all day if you want to. Yeah, you can eat all day here, right? If you concentrate on fruit? No, you can. You can eat all day. You can eat all day. And, however, for me, the trick is, if I paid, if I came to Zen Center and I paid, and they said you could eat all day, then I'd feel more obligated to cash in and, like, every time. Like, So fortunately, I don't pay for breakfast tomorrow, so I'll be able to stop, I think, at some point. Simply put, Buddha is actually suggesting to the monks that they look at this, that they look at this issue of what excessive desire is and that they don't get involved in excessive desire and they learn what is excessive and they work with that.

[69:06]

pretty much nonstop, like he says, single-mindedly seek emancipation. Single-mindedly seek emancipation. In other words, do these practices, look at them all the time. Well, that could be excessive too. You could get excessive about practice. You could get excessive about your desire to gain liberation that could become excessive. How would it get excessive? What's an example of excessively working for emancipation, the desire that you have been doing? Well, one day that might be all right. But to do it too many days in a row probably would be excessive. That would be a pretty good example. pardon rigidity concerning form yeah yeah seems like when what i'm doing but there's all these things are in my way of doing

[70:33]

Oh, sorry. I thought you were happy about lying. No, no. No, no. I'm too excited about how tight you were. I'm sorry. I didn't remember what she was saying. Just get the home piece then. Did you say something about having a particular idea about what you wanted to do and then having other people or other things interfere with that pursuit? Yeah. That became the idea. I'll play it or something. Here it is. You have an idea about doing something you think would be good, right? Yeah. Oh, well, I'm too, I'm too distracted by what you're going to say now, but... No, come on, no. I want to show you the problem. Are you getting brought in this wonderful life?

[71:35]

Okay. Well, okay, I was thinking, Miss, I've been going along on the road trying to park here most evening, but, so, but, okay, I'm going to be patient. Right? Well, the world is not acquiescing to my patient, you know? We can't deal with this stuff because I'm over here being patient, you know? That's accepted. You know, the world, you know, when it's up and... Right. But I think we have the same thing. Oh. That's like area, one person, which routine routine. So, when you find a practice for patients and the world's not cooperating, or some other practice you might think is good and the world's not cooperating. What might you do that might make it excessive? You try to get everybody else to do it, too. You try to control everybody else to do it because you see how good it is.

[72:39]

And it is probably good. Patience is good. But you'd make it excessive if you tried to get everybody else to be patient, rather than being patient with the fact that they aren't patient. And some of them will never be patient until you accept that they're not patient. And some people, especially certain people, are specifically not being patient for your benefit because they want to see if you love them enough to let them be the way they are, the world is acting this way to test you and see if you love it enough to let it not cooperate with you. So that's how we can make spiritual practice excessive, by

[73:41]

trying to get the world to conform to our high values that would make spiritual practice aggressive and of course it applies which I said earlier in the practice period it applies to my attitude towards myself of getting myself to come in line with my spiritual values and I notice that I'm not coming in line with them and partly I'm trying to find out if I love myself enough to let myself not come in line with my own values. And when I really let myself not come in line with my true values, maybe myself will say, well, OK, maybe now I'll come in line. Maybe not. It's not a trick to get you to come in line. It's just that I think some people are definitely I think with students, with teachers, one of the things they want to find out is, is this teacher patient with me?

[74:44]

And they're doing just the thing that will, they find the thing which will be hard for the teacher to be patient with. And so they want to find out two things. One, is the person loving me? And second, is the person, the teacher, the Buddhist teacher, they want to find out, is this person with patience? Because one of the qualities of a bodhisattva teacher is that they're patient with the rate of the student's development. So you could want someone, for example, to get concentrated and mindful and graceful all kinds of healthy things like that. You could want that for them and they could just sort of be going along not acquiring these qualities which you think are really good. You could want them to have good posture and yet their posture might not be coming along quite at the rate you would like.

[75:49]

So it's a good thing that you want for them but it's coming along so slowly. And so it doesn't say the quality of a teacher is, in this one books I've read, it doesn't say the quality of a teacher is when people are coming along too slowly, the teacher gets really angry at them and kicks ass. It doesn't say that. Why not? I mean, does that not sound good? That people should, people are, it's a good thing, right? Get it together and kick their butt together. But it doesn't say that in any books I've read. Dead gurus don't kick ass?

[76:51]

Living gurus do kick ass. Well, I think that one possible solution to this problem, ladies and gentlemen, is, besides the fact it's almost nine o'clock, is that actually somebody who really does love you and somebody who really is patient with you is a guru. And you will project onto that person an ass-kicker. So there will be plenty of ass kicking happening anyway, because it's inside your brain. The other person doesn't have to do a thing for the ass kicking to happen. You will naturally think, boy, I better get on the stick. On the other hand, since this guy's the one who's pressuring me, I think I won't get on the stick and see what happens then.

[77:52]

So the ass kicking dynamic occurs even in the most gentle hudas. I have to mention the less gentle hudas who give up There's kind of some excuse for this. But it is getting close to nine o'clock. So not too many more questions, okay? Although you don't have to get up till, you know, about eight o'clock tomorrow. Your neck. Your neck and then your neck. So you're saying we do it enough, we instigate it enough ourselves that There's really no need for a teacher or someone else to do it. Usually, that's right.

[78:53]

Usually. Usually. So you're saying that there might be an instant plan if it's appropriate for a teacher. Definitely. Definitely. Sometimes the student wants you to kick their ass, and you should kick their ass. But it's written, huh? And that is the appropriate response, you know, once in a thousand. But if you look in people's minds, it's going to be like every other thought they have, the teacher is going to kick my ass. Or every third or eighth or something like that. But it's more like one in a thousand or one in three thousand teacher actually will kick ass. I would say approximately one in three thousand. One in three thousand thoughts or one in three thousand teacher. One in three thousand thoughts. When Suzuki Roshi, I take heart in this. When I come in a room, people kind of like think I'm going to kick their ass. Some people do. And like I come into rooms and people go,

[79:53]

Jesse said, I walked by, and you go, and where is Jesse? And, you know, stop like that. And I take heart in the back that when Hizuki Roshi came into the room, people sat up straighter. They did. And he was just this, you know, little tiny sweetheart, you know? And, you know, basically, but once in a great while, he would just suddenly be a tiger. Mostly, but he was, you know, if anything was the problem with him, he was too kind. And we had too much trouble projecting the, you know, the ass kicker on him. once in a great while he would actually do something very very surprising that uh one time i told you maybe we got up early and then nobody went to zendo and then when we did go to zendo he went and hit everybody in the zendo but nobody it wasn't kicking ass at all they would they were just you know everybody just cried because they felt how much he loved them it just wasn't kicking ass like kind of like mean or anything

[81:15]

It was just a question, what it was. And one time, a student, he was giving a talk, and a student said something like, well, should we demonstrate, should we go to the nuclear installations and protest and stuff, or something like that? And he got off his seat, and he started beating the guy with a stick, and beat the guy off his chair onto the ground with a stick. Hmm? I don't know. But anyway, that happened once. That happened once. He did it. And basically, he was very sweet. I don't know what the hell that happened. I never did that. But people think I'm going to. You know, someday I might do it, I don't know. Maybe when I'm really old and little. And now I don't get to do that stuff.

[82:17]

Nobody's really asking for it. Could get some boxing gloves. Come on, let's go around. I don't know how we got into that. Oh, and here's one more thing before we quit. I just happened to get a paper about, you know, trading with enlightenment stuff. It says here something like, ways to... automate living being by methods of conditioning like tension and release. For example, Sashi is a recent innovation. This process is resorted to mechanically, if this process is resorted to mechanically, it won't enlighten, but it will produce automatons. What gave rise to Sashi?

[83:24]

People who were not serious. This is where all Sashi, all schedules, come from. What am I reading from? It's the back side of the Gen Center's statement of income and expenses. Do you have an idea? No, they're not. I don't have such idea. I don't know what an idea would be like. Yeah. You made some notes here. This is where all schedules come from. Where? For people who aren't serious. I didn't say that. That is something I read off a paper paper. Not my idea. Okay.

[84:33]

First one is having few desires. Next one is, which seems quite related, but slightly different, is to be contended. Listen to the difference. I'll just read the contended one. see a slight difference. So having few desires means not having excessive desires. It doesn't mean having no desires. It doesn't mean when they're serving you food that you don't want it. It's okay to want it, but normal to want lunch. Breakfast is also okay. Dinner is questionable. We can get into that later. Okay, being content. To take what one has got within bounds is called being content. O monks, if you want to shed afflictions, you should observe contentment. The state of contentment is the abode of prosperity and happiness, peace and tranquility.

[85:34]

Those who are content may sleep on the ground and still consider it comfortable. Those who are not content will be dissatisfied even in heaven. Those who are not content are always caught up in financial desires. They are pitied by those who are content. Next one is to enjoy quietude. Next one is diligence or right effort. Next one is unfailing recollection or mindfulness. Next one is to unify the mind. Next one is cultivating with them. And the last one is not engaging in vain talk. Dogen says realizing detachment from arbitrary discrimination. is called not engaging in vain talk. So, our mind is continuously making arbitrary discriminations.

[86:35]

Again, this is normal. Like, oh, this is brown rice, this is white rice. This is a woman. This is a man. This is somebody who's doing this. This is someone who's not doing this. This is arbitrary discrimination, which we do not stop. However, we are also, unfortunately, attached to our arbitrary discriminations. And then if we talk based on our attachment to our arbitrary discrimination, this is called idle chatter or vain talk. One who has fully comprehended the character of reality will not engage in this kind of talk. So our mind will continue to make these arbitrary discriminations. I think that's, again, just, if you don't do that, you're not a human being. The only way to avoid that is to have a lobotomy or something, which is not the Buddha way. In fact, you can't be a Buddha if you give yourself a whole lobotomy.

[87:37]

We've got to have regular human problems, like making these discrimination. The attachment to the discrimination is what you talked about before, the outflows. So the talk based on attachment to the discrimination that your mind naturally makes, that's this kind of talk, which is the eighth thing that he recommends we give that up. So we need to be able to spot our discriminations and watch our attachment to them and try to wean ourselves from these ideas which are coming up all the time. They will keep coming up though. Bless them. They are the place we realize nirvana. By watching them come up and not messing with them, just see them function, that is nirvana. Nirvana is not like your mind goes flat and no discriminations anymore. It is the mind as it naturally occurs without getting stuck to itself. So that's why, you see, the bodhisattvas nirvana is no trace of cessation.

[88:41]

In other words, the mind's working as normal. You're working just right along. But there is detachment. But there's no, like, sign of detachment. That would be another kind of getting stuck. So maybe we could talk about some of this some more. some other time, because we get ready for our celebration of Buddha's Koryanipani. Do we have to get up later now that I said I think about 8 o'clock? No. 9, 10? Do I get up 10 minutes later? Yeah. I hope somebody can figure this out. Yeah, I'm going to shout out.

[89:47]

Please, save us.

[89:52]

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