Thank you. So don't move, just die. The way I understand that is, stop putting your energy into carnal, into, like, doing things, to try to cope with suffering, and just, you know, renounce your habitual habits of activity.

[01:08]

Kind of like, die to that kind of worldly activity. Does that make sense? That's what it means. Right, just sit. So the first truth, the truth of suffering. Second truth, truth of origination. You know, how it is. D-U-K-K-H. Center. D-U-H. K-Z-H-A. K. And then the second truth is that suffering has an origination.

[02:20]

The third truth is the truth of Vinaroga. that suffering has a cessation or an end, freedom from suffering is possible. Immediately, because of the fact that suffering arises, has an origination, it must also, that origination entails a ceasing or non-origination. And there is an actual practical path, which is the fourth tier. There is a marga, a path by which one can study the suffering and its origination. And by understanding this process and being willing to give up, and seeing how to give up,

[03:29]

the conditions which are the origination of suffering, one realizes the liberation from suffering. And, briefly speaking, this path is sometimes described as, well, like Sukyoshi described it as, don't rule, just die. The eight-fold description of it is the eight-fold path. And the first aspect of the eight-fold path I mentioned the other day is right view or right lifespan. And right view entails a certain curriculum of topics to be understood and to be accepted. A certain curriculum study to be accepted and studied. And the foremost item of curriculum is the fundamental truths. The right view is ultimately to understand, to study and understand fundamental truths.

[04:38]

So the path is basically to look back at the first and second truth, you know, to realize third and fourth truth. In order to realize freedom from suffering, we look at the first and second truth. Of course, we also have to look at the third truth, because by looking at the third truth and seeing that there's a possibility of real unshakable liberation from suffering, we feel encouraged to study. If we just look at the first truth of how pervasive and profound suffering is in the world, we might not think of studying more. But realizing that there's a real possibility of freedom to study, we might be encouraged, we could greatly encourage to study.

[05:51]

So the fourth truth is to study the first, second, and third truth. So today, I'd like to go a little bit deeper into the first truth. And finally, in response to Florence's request, a question. So I think some of you are already familiar with it. There are three kinds of suffering, three divisions. The first kind is called the suffering of suffering. And in Sanskrit, that would be dukkha. Speaking it sounds pretty much the same. In Sanskrit or Pali, it would be dukkha dukkhata.

[06:56]

Dukkha dukkhata. Suffering of suffering. And the second kind is called parinama dukkhata. Parinama. P-A-R-I-N-A-N-A. Parinama. Parinama means, and also sometimes said Viparinama. Parinama means change. So suffering to the change. Third kind of suffering is suffering of, say the suffering of conditioning, or you could say the suffering which pervades conditioned states, or you could say pervasive suffering. And that's samskara. Sam, S-A-N, S-A-K-R-A, or in Pali, just take out the middle S. Sankara in Pali, samskara in Sanskrit.

[08:07]

Sankara means something that's put together by conditions and factors. So samskara-dukkata is the suffering which pervades all conditioned things, the three types of suffering. But understand that each of the three kinds of suffering, under the condition of ignorance, under the condition of craving and the condition of defiled karmic activity. So what people in this part of the world, the western part of the world, usually consider suffering, what we usually use the word suffering, applies primarily to

[09:08]

first type, because that's obviously manifestly painful, suffering. Yes? Sorry, I'm just going to clear something up. I lost it. I'm going to do it again. [...] or suffering and conditional existence. You know, the way we often talk about conditional existence, what I just gave or taught you about it was the suffering of possessing five skandhas. Any being that possesses five skandhas He says in brief, at the end of his presentation there, in brief, in brief about the whole thing, the suffering of any being who possesses bystanders, bystanders, that suffer.

[10:18]

So, any being that possesses form, that possesses feelings, that possesses emotional activity that possesses perceptions, that possesses consciousness, any being that possesses or clings to, any being that clings to some experience, that's suffering. And that's pervasive. For any being that clings to any experience, that suffering is pervasive. So that suffering will be present all time. And, like I was saying, In our culture, usually what we call, what people usually recognize as suffering is the first kind of suffering is suffering, dukkha, dukkhata, because that's obviously painful. But while the dukkha, dukkhata is going on, while suffering, if suffering is going on, we also have this other kind of suffering going on too, this subtle, omnipresent human, omnipresent nauseation of the human existence.

[11:24]

non-stop, and we feel anxious. And we always feel anxious whenever there is a self clinging to its experience. So any aspect of our experience that we possess, or any possession of any aspect of our experience, that is the basic kind of suffering, pervasive, unavoidable suffering. But it's suffering. And if you're experiencing the pain of pain, you may not even notice it. And people don't even call it suffering. And the other kind of suffering, the second kind is the suffering of change. That basically is the suffering of when you're in pleasure. In Abhidharmakosha, it's called sukha-dukkha, the suffering of pleasure. It's the dukkha of sukha. It's the dukkha of pleasure. When you're in pleasure, you feel pain, you know that the pleasure will be replaced by pain.

[12:26]

You know that whenever you're in pleasure. It's the pain that you have in your pleasure when you think, geez, this is going to end, or geez, we should do this again sometime. It's that pain that even while you're in pleasure, you're not experiencing the pleasure. You are taking the pleasure, but you're eroding it because you're possessing, because you're possessing, because you're cleaning, and because you know that it will be replaced, that you'll be separated. So when there's a first kind of suffering, there's a third kind of suffering. When there's a second kind of suffering, there's a third kind of suffering. And sometimes there's not really pain or pleasure. Sometimes there's not the pain of manifest gross pain, and there's not the pain of worrying about losing pleasure. That pleasure isn't going to be replaced by pain. There's a neutral state of existence where affect is not an issue. The basic kind is there all the time, unless there's not any grasp, unless there's no possession of the five aggregates.

[13:43]

There's no possession if the living being is not possessing the aggregates, then we are practicing not moving, just dying. Number one, cold, heat, hunger, insects, bites, cancer, heart disease, deteriorating, losing your powers, getting old, losing your memory, having your teeth fall out, getting shrugged, shriveling up, getting smaller, getting shorter, getting weaker. When they gave me this article, it says something about, I don't know, it has this chart about men aging, you know, just testosterone going down. It gets to zero eventually. You wind up with zero. Women have more than you at the end. It's not easy for sports. Is this really true? Actually, what my question was, it seems like that first kind of suffering, godly suffering,

[14:52]

is one would have to not have a body to not have that suffering. I mean, that that's, it's part of what you see called that is overcome by the path other than sort of traditional understanding of, you know, leaving the wheel completely. Yeah, so one possibly might think, well, maybe, maybe you'd have the first coming, you know, like somebody would punch you in the nose and it would hurt. Right. You have the first kind, but not the third kind. But not having the third kind is coupled with not having the third kind of suffering, and not having the pervasive kind of suffering means that something else comes into its place called nirvana. And nirvana is not only a state where all this kind of attachment drops away, and all these, you know, defiled mental tendencies and, you know, re-hidden delusion that dropped away.

[16:14]

It's not just their absence and release from them, but it's also filled with pleasure. But it's not pleasure that's positive, negative, neutral. It's a sublime... It's a pleasure that's so great that it makes ordinary pleasure look like misery. So, although you may be experiencing physical pain, you're also in a state of great joy and pleasure. You're in a very pleasant condition. So these small pains are not major ends in the Nirvana. But you still can sense negative sensation. So when the Buddha, for example, towards the end of his life, he did get sick. He had a little bit, he was, and he was, you know, struggling to take care of his painful body, which was sick, and he had back problems. He had back problems post, prior and post to enlightenment, he had pain in his back, even sometimes couldn't get talks because of his back pains, and had a non-concussion in his place.

[17:23]

So he could sense that kind of pain. But it was not really an issue anymore. It wasn't a problem. It wasn't by something that he would like... He would never need to do anything unwholesome in order to manipulate that kind of craving. He would just take care of it in a reasonable, wholesome way. So there's wholesome ways to take care of that kind of physical craving. And one would still be able to do that. And hopefully do it more effectively after becoming free The second kind probably, however, wouldn't be there anymore. I'm afraid of separating pain from pleasure. So if the nervous system would still work as usual, you'd still be able to benefit from the feedback of your body giving you pain. That's going to be useful. It would be useful for people to see how you could handle pain like Suzuki Roshi.

[18:26]

I thought he handled his pain very nicely when he was sick at the end of his life. To me, he was teaching very nicely during his considerable pain. He didn't take any pain killers for his liver cancer. Liver cancer is very tough stuff. He was just as much as that master then as he was the years before. So it was a great inspiration to see how he related to the pain and how it didn't really interfere with his teaching at all. And he wasn't really teaching like giving talks and stuff anymore. He was just there suffering with his illness, basically. But the way he taught while he was sick, just the little things he did, just the way he winced, you know, just the way he farted, you know, was very deep teaching. So I think that, but he was in pain. Looked like he was in pain.

[19:28]

He said he was in pain. He said he really was having a hard time with the pain. But he was just as compassionate and thoughtful and as usual. However, the pain was really, it was taking a lot of energy to deal with it. He had to put a lot of energy into coping with it. You can see that. It's a very important distinction to create the sensation of feeling the pleasure and the grasping, right? Without the grasping, we wouldn't be called suffering. We'd just be called suffering. Right. Yeah. But the words for pain is the same word as suffering. So they use the same word. Usually pain, like negative sensation, is good also. But it's true, if you don't grasp, if you don't... Put it another way, a positive sensation, a negative sensation, if they are like over there and you approach them, you think of them as separate from yourself.

[20:33]

You can think of the self separate from your pain. You can think of the self separate from pleasure. You can think of the self separate from neutral sensation. That's called possessing or grasping the sensation. That's grasping the second sound. If you grasp any sound, for example, if you grasp it, that is suffering. Suffering is painful. It hurts us to grasp a pleasant sensation. It hurts us to grasp. It disturbs our life system to cut it in two and have a self over here that grasps its own feelings. Putting any separation from our experience is painful. But if you don't grasp your pleasant sensation, if you don't grasp your negative sensation, it is still negative sensation, it's still pain. It could be extreme pain. No kidding, real intense pain. And the word duka for it, it's like, really can hurt.

[21:37]

Just regular old physical pain can be very painful. But not grasping it is blissful. Because then the overall system is not split anymore. And the encouragement of the unification of the whole process of life is so great that it out-balances the pain, even extreme pain. But there is still real, there still can be real pain. So again, you can see person can't go to Tsuji-Kiroshi or to Kamapa, too. You know, he'd come up and die to finish it, too, and he'd have a hard time. He'd have a real hard time. But it didn't seem to interfere with his compassion. He seemed to be coming from a very comfortable place in the midst of experiencing pain. And speaking from there, the comfortable place of still being mostly concerned, primarily concerned with the welfare of others,

[22:44]

Having that position in the middle of pain is very nice. But the pain is still significant. And it has the same, use the same Sanskrit words for that. And the pain that you would have if you were just splitting yourself into two parts. This idea of self, me, and my experience. So again, the components of experience, the five aggregates, or the 12 sense bases, or the 18 elements of experience, all these different ways of talking about our experience, when they're out there and we approach them, it's miserable. When we don't approach them anymore, then all those things are places where we realize cessation. So where do we realize cessation? We realize cessation in those places that we initially came about. I have a story of a guy. He was almost gone and in very, very bad pain.

[23:52]

One of the doctors leaned over to him because he wanted to do something. And it came off like a twister. Nothing ever happens. Patient acceptance. Nothing ever happens. It's just like, at that point when you really feel that way, then you never slip back anymore into a dualistic way of seeing your life. Yes? Were there some scara that sounds awfully close to samsara? Is that related? They're related. I think that the song is the same. but psalm sarami is, you know, going around in a circle. Psalms scarami is putting together, naked. They're related. Psalm is the same.

[24:53]

But the karam is going around, and the scarami is naked. Another point is that, in terms of meditation, is that it's very important to study this first truth. And now you've heard about it. Now how are you going to study it? How are you going to study it? Well, you're going to turn around and look at it. Because if we can look, if we can study this first truth, this first truth is completely inseparable from the second truth. So if you can study the first truth, the second truth will be revealed to you. Because the first truth is that the suffering has an origination.

[25:56]

The suffering arises. So we have to study the suffering, you know, to see actually witness and feel it's arising. And this is available to us. This is like available. Because we have suffering that is arising. It is arising in our own heart right now. This suffering is coming to us right now. But rather than, you know, in some sense, now you've heard about the arising, the suffering, but you've heard about the origination of the arising. Can you witness it? You can witness it if you can witness your suffering. Can you witness your suffering? Can you witness the three types of suffering? If you can, which ones are going on? Can you witness two of them going on at once? Yes.

[26:59]

What of all the three types of suffering you have in common, if you could just open your mind and see what the main element is? All three. You feel uneasy. You feel uneasy. You feel not at peace. You feel unstable. You feel insecure. I mean, as far as the cause. The cause? Is it something all three of you have in common? In terms of their origination, yes. In terms of origination, the thing they have in common is that's what they have in common. All three arise. And all three go away. However, the third one, and maybe that's the second one too, but the third one can go away permanently. Whereas the first one just comes and goes all the time. The pain in your body comes and goes all the time. That will continue. But the pain of attachment, of grasping, of possessing your experience, that can be permanently abandoned.

[28:07]

Like when you realize this Christian acceptance that things don't even happen. But they all share the quality of the rising and ceasing thinking, coming and going. And this is in samsara. These first two truths are the truths of samsara. Samsara is a place where things come and go. In the realm of freedom, things don't come and go. What's the loss of the loved one in times of suffering and change? Would it still be natural to feel... The suffering of changes does not apply to the loss of the loved one. The loss of the loved one, okay, is the first kind of suffering. The loss of the loved one hurts.

[29:11]

The loss of the loved one is unpleasant. Right? So the loss of a loved one is the first category. But it is a change in your life, the one that you didn't want. I know, but I'm just saying, the way that they use the term, the suffering of change means the suffering that you have while you're having a pleasant experience. Okay. So if losing your loved one is pleasant, then it is a pleasure that you have in losing them. But that pleasure would be painful in the pleasure. Losing pleasure is immediately painful. And people can recognize that. That's obvious to people. Losing somebody really well is painful. That's manifestly, obviously painful. That's not the first category. That's just the way that we traditionally use the term. Under the first category, being separated from loved ones. That's painful. Emotional pain.

[30:11]

Emotional pain. Yes. That's a good question. That's your second question. Yeah, what you described, you were describing physical pain as the one. Physical. Emotional wasn't. Well, it is included. Emotional pain is in the first category. Being separated from loved ones, having people you hate real near to you, that's the first. That's unpleasant. Having people near you who are criticizing you and being cruel to you, that's the first kind. But when you're having a pleasant experience, even when you're having a pleasant experience, there's a pattern right in that. In that you are afraid of losing it. And you know you will. That's why you tend to hold on to pleasant experiences. Even though you've got them, you don't just have them, you hold on to them. You ruin it right while it's happening.

[31:14]

This is the one of change. I think the next one is Rosie. Yes. So when we hang up now, no suffering, no origination, no stopping. Yes, yes. The no origination and no stopping are different from the arising and going away. The point of view of Prajnaparamita is how it looks from the point of view of realizing the path. The point of view of Prajnaparamita is looking at the world from the point of view of Nirvana. So from the point of view of Nirvana, there's no Four Noble Truths. And also, from the point of view of Chapter 24 of Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyama Kakarikas, there's no Four Noble Truths.

[32:16]

And because there really isn't Four Noble Truths, because of that you can practice them. Because there isn't a path, you can practice it. If there was a path, if the path was something definite, it would be set and that would be it. We wouldn't be able to practice it because as soon as we practice the path, it must arise. It couldn't have been there before. Otherwise, we'd have no place in it. So in that sense, there's no path in the Heart Sutra and there's no path in Nagarjuna's teaching. They're speaking the same kind of no path. No path means the path can be what's happening right now Two and three can be replaced by nirvana. Is that right? Two and three are replaced by nirvana? Two and three? The type of suffering two and three are replaced by nirvana?

[33:19]

Right. Right. with words of being around people of age and that sort of thing. Well, yes. I think, you know, like I told the story that you had last time, but... Okay, so one of the first stories that turned me towards Zen is the story of Hakuin, when some people came and falsely accused him of something, you know, and they called him a terrible monk, a disgrace to the Sangha, you know, he was just the most horrible person, and you're screaming at him, you know, and he said, he said, so, and then they said, you take care of this baby, you take care of this baby, and then later they came back and they found out that they missed, they missed, uh, the statement that accused him, and he apologized and said, you are such a great monk, you didn't defend yourself, you didn't argue with us, you didn't get angry at us, and you just took care of the trap, you are fantastic, and he said yes.

[34:29]

So my feeling was, it wasn't that when they attacked him, it didn't hurt him. It wasn't that his cheeks didn't crinkle when they were yelling at him. It wasn't that it didn't hurt, but just that when he was hurt, what he did was, you know, steady. And so I said, oh, is that so? What's happening here? And when he was praised, it wasn't that he didn't kind of like feel warm and cuddly, you know, and nice to him. I can keep up with the law. I think his body responded to that causative energy, but he deserved the same thing. Always the same practice, just don't move. What's happening? What's happening? What is this? What is this? What aggregates are these? Is there any separation? All the same. It was all the same. It didn't make any difference to me whether it was the tact, the praise. That wouldn't have been inspiring. That's what they told me, that what's happening to me. It wouldn't have been impressive to me. It's that you hurt and didn't jump around. And it was a pleasure to jump around with the question. So I'd like to talk to you about the level.

[35:37]

Is it where you're attacking the idea of the level and it's not looking up to you, it's causing you suffering? Yes. Does it have that big sort of track form? Is that in the Bible study? Well, it is possible that separation from a loved one might not hurt you if you had no physical attachment to them. It's possible that your body didn't form a physical attachment to the person, that you just love them. When Buddha loves people, Buddha does not simultaneously form attachments to the person. So after it says, in the Vimalakirti Sutta, the point is that when you're generating compassion and love for being, if some affected element arises in the relationship to that compassion, if you're influenced by that affected element, then that will destroy or undermine your compassion.

[36:49]

If you love someone, you're practicing compassion towards someone, and you're attracted to them, you feel affectionate towards them, and you think they're great, that's okay. But if you then indulge in that affective quality of your relationship and get pushed around by it, then that changes, it will, that might undermine your relationship. the very person who, and all the people that you're compassionate with, those who you have affection towards. You know, those are the ones you, you know, certainly don't want to, like, abandon them, right? You certainly want to continue to be compassionate to them, even if they should change, right? Wouldn't it be terrible to, like, stop being compassionate to the people you love most, you know, just because they changed? But if that love, that affection which accompanies your compassion is something you indulge in, then when that changes, and it will change, if you invested in it, in that affection, that will make you less able to be compassionate to them than you might for somebody who has neutral feelings.

[38:06]

Of course, you also shouldn't be affected by it. negative affection towards people that you're practicing compassion. But that's obvious. Obviously, if you were affected by that, you'd just stay away from them and you would avoid practicing compassion. So that's obvious. That would immediately block your compassion. But some people you feel very warmly towards. And it seems easy to have this compassion with them because you just love to be around them and everything that they do is interesting to you. And if they have any problems, you're very sympathetic and want to hear all about it and help them in any way you can. That's fine. That's fine. And it's easy. Sometimes it's easy. It's okay if it's easy. It's okay if somebody likes some people. And it's easy to visit them in the hospital. It's easy to clean up their poop and stuff. That's fine. But if you unconsciously or unconsciously slip into like, you know, indulging in that positive sensation that you have when you're around them, that can really interfere with your compassion later when they change, when they get older, when they decide to, you know, do something different from what they've been doing, like be so nice to you, for example.

[39:22]

You have trouble following that, Sala? No. No. But I don't understand what to do about it. Or what to do about the positive, the affection that arises in relationship to someone you're practicing compassion? The attachment to, the attachment, yeah, what to do, and they do change. Yeah, well, this is a case where you have, like, positive sensation, right? So you may notice the pain of worrying about that positive sensation returning. That kind of pain is there. But you have this other kind of pain of, is your experience of that person, the form in that person, for example, is it an object which you are grasping? And can you feel the pain of that? And can you meditate on the pain of that? If you meditate on the pain of that, you can start to notice how there's a self who's reaching out there to grab the... attaching to the form of the person, or there's a self who's... there's the idea of the self being separated from the positive feeling associated with the person.

[40:38]

And you can also practice that with the self feeling separate from the positive sensation of someone... of the negative sensation of someone. In some way that's easier, maybe, to feel that pain. Because then you have a double pain there. You have the pain of being close to someone you don't like, but you have the more subtle pain of separating yourself from someone you don't like. If you go into the pain of that, you gradually will develop the sense of, I'd like to drop this sense of separation from this person who I have a positive sensation towards. because it's painful. Not to mention that this will not only help me with that pain, but also protect me from indulging in the positive sensation, which will then, if I do, eventually lead me to abandon this person if they change. You can start to hate the people who you originally had a very positive sensation towards when they change.

[41:41]

So you wind up abandoning the person you most wanted to help because they changed. Not because they changed, but because they changed and you had previously indulged in and attached to the positive sensation you had in relationship with them. This is a tough thing for bodhisattvas. But this basic Buddhist practice of meditating on four truths applies and can help protect you from this kind of problem. It also will protect you from the other side, and that is being affected by negative sensations towards people that you're trying to develop affection. So is it a question of not seeing separation with the person in front of you, whether you like it or not? Is that the goal? Well, I mean, you're saying that for the Buddha, he sees it that way. Buddha is completely free of the illusion of separation between self and other.

[42:55]

All of us humans are born, not born, but after a short period of time, we develop the ability, we have the neurological wiring to develop the illusion of self separated from other. So this is like pervasive human illusion that we're separate from other. And we need that in order to develop a sense of self. And the other, particularly our parents, look at us and tell us that we are a self, and it helps us to develop that sense, and we need that in order to interact in an ordinary way, in order to feed ourselves and brush our teeth and wash our hands and wipe our butt. We need to develop that sense. So the whole... You know, and people who love us and have affection for us help us develop that sense of separation. And then finally we believe it, and when we believe it, then we have, then we suffer all the time because of it.

[43:55]

And then, and so all of us share that. We all have that kind of feeling. And we all act based on that. And then we have individual things we do which vary. So we have these two kinds of actions we take based on the sense of separation, first of all, and then based on our individual lineages of karma which develop, which are the origination of this pain. So the goal of the path is to help all beings come free of this illusion, and therefore to come free of all the karmic encumbrances which arise from the illusion. Yes? I had a question about the relationship between Kaurava and Dukkha.

[45:00]

This morning, the first thing that came to my head was that karma isn't always instant. It's not always instant. It's not. Right. It kind of percolates sometimes throughout maybe several lives or something. Yes. And it's also collective in the sense that we're all here now. There's a collective aspect of karma, but I just want to make it too briefly. that the collective aspect of karma is not the evolutionary aspect of it. The collective aspect of karma is what makes the container world. So the five sense fields are the result of collective karma. The fact that there's colors, smells, tangibles, taste, and sounds, that's the container world which we all share. That's the result of collective karma. It's sum total of all kind.

[46:04]

The evolutionary aspect of common, it's all individual. Nobody else can plug into your evolution upward or downward in terms of the quality of your existence. I just wanted to mention this is the part that we're collected from. But say, for instance, hypothetically, the satellite would drop on his room, now we all die. Yes. That's also due to our collective problem as well as our individual problem. The fact that this building is collapsing on the circuit, that's not due to so much... That in itself is due to both individual and collective problems. I hope that all these people can make real lives feel as a possible emotion. And the people, what they're thinking about, the roof kids, they had in fact an opportunity for their uplifting and, you know, their evolution and their happiness.

[47:11]

They would die happily clicking that book. On the other hand, if you're thinking about what's going to happen to me as a roof kid, or yourself as a roof kid, He'd be suffering. He misused the opportunity. So roots came in. The whole world is, from the point of view of this teaching here, this point of truth, the whole world is offering us opportunities to realize this truth. So whenever anything happens that was loose-balling, that's an example of an opportunity to see, is there a suffering? Was the creation suffering? And what's happened is right at that time, I said, oh, there's this condition. I'm self-concerned. That's why I'm worried about the ceiling coming down. And this is painful even before it hits me. It might even not get me, but I'm already worried. I could wake up right then.

[48:12]

I said, I have to get this up. Realize in your mind, that's the ceiling that's coming down at you. So every opportunity like that, Experientially, the more I sit on Zen, the more I sometimes feel that I'm experiencing pure karma in my life. You're experiencing pure karma result from perhaps some other previous time. Yes. Our experience that was coming to us is karma result. So the way we respond to that is karma. or not coming. It's karma if it comes from belief in yourself. It's karma if it comes from that belief in believing the reality of our separation from others and our independence from others and our responses to what comes to us from past moments of where we thought we were separate.

[49:19]

but to see this as not separate from ourselves, but to see this just as the five skandhas coming up, and we experience five skandhas, five skandhas, five skandhas, then our response, then what happens is not the right action of the soul, it's the right speech. So the karma will still occur, even the karmic result will still keep coming. As long as you live in the world, you can still be inheriting collective karma. They come in these five types of packages. That's what's going to happen. And as long as you have a body, the body will respond to that in certain ways. And five skandhas will be coming up. But if there's no possession of the five skandhas, there will be no karma. So when there's no self-possessing your feelings, your perceptions, your emotions, And there's no real aid in delusion. And there's no karma. But there is right action, right speech, right mindfulness.

[50:25]

Okay? Does that make sense? It's a possibility. Yes? I've been struggling and exhausted with this notion of the breath of So I was sitting, kicking, and trying to see into the nature of myself. And yet, the thing to me, the beating of my efforts to step out from that, with the Zen teaching of no cap, no method, it just seemed like sometimes when I sit, it's just, What does this method mean? As long as we have any belief in our independent existence, as long as we have any belief in a concept of our independent self, as long as that happens, we cannot help accumulate karma.

[51:38]

So to think that you're practicing the teaching of the Heart Sutra, you know, of no attainment and no suffering and no path, to think that you're doing that while you still have some belief in the concept of self, that's an error. You're not living like that. As long as you have any belief in self, you're accumulating karma. You're still acting consciously or unconsciously from that belief. I'm doing this. So if that's the case, which most of us do well to consider that that might be the case, there might be a little bit of belief in the concept of self, so probably generating, so probably acting on that belief. If that's the case, then what we should do is be very good and do good karma. In good karma, we should be really skillful. We should be really skillful at sitting. We should be really skillful at cleaning. We should be really skillful at serving. We should be really skillful at sweeping. We should be really skillful at talking to each other and listening to each other.

[52:41]

We should be very skillful at cutting wood. We should be very skillful at answering the telephone. We should be very skillful with karaoke. We should be very skillful at getting up and getting down from our sitting place. We should be very skillful in the way we deal with our pain and pleasure. All karma. This is all like, I'm being skillful doing this, I'm being skillful doing that. And enjoy. Forget about enjoy. You will enjoy. You will enjoy doing wholesome things. Wholesome things are really fun. And also develop, you know, the enthusiasm, the appreciation for how wonderful it is to be skillful at karma. And to know, and not be confused. This is karma. I'm doing the karma now. I'm going over there Walking over to that meditation hall in a skillful way, of dealing with my body in a skillful way, of skillfully putting my feet on the earth, skillfully opening a door, carefully having this opportunity, a door. And I'm skillfully doing meditation. In other words, I'm skillfully sitting my body upright.

[53:42]

I'm skillfully sitting still. I'm skillfully making this mudra. I'm making a beautiful mudra. Skillfully, over and over, moment after moment, I make a beautiful body posture. And I skillfully, karmically, karmically, I offer the merit of my sitting to the welfare of all beings. And I skillfully do that dedication. And I enjoy the skill. And I also skillfully develop the enjoyment of the skillful karma. Now all that skillful karma gives rise to the opportunity of appreciating that there's still some pain here in thinking about the process this way. Although it's a joy to do wholesome karma. And it's really the piss to do on wholesome karma. And I appreciate that. At the same time, there's still pain even in wholesome karma. And wholesome karma is still suffering. Because there's still pain in me doing anything. There's always pain in me doing things.

[54:44]

But by doing wholesome karma, you can generate enough merit which you're constantly giving away. And when more comes, you give away more and you get more merit. That merit, one of the things that merit can offer you is the ability to see how painful it is to do wholesome karma. How painful it is, even so, to think karmically. And when you see the karmically created clearly, that is the basis That is the content of Buddha's nondiscriminating wisdom. But if you don't practice wholesome karma, you can't see clearly the world of karmically created experience. But if you can see the world of karmically created experience, you are on the track of nondiscriminating wisdom, because nondiscriminating wisdom means you study whatever is happening. And what's happening most of the time is karma, karma, karma. So since you're doing karma, do it skillfully, and doing it skillfully means you're aware of what you're doing, and also doing it skillfully means you have the opportunity to see that it's karma, and also have this opportunity to see the drawbacks of karma, and develop the non-discriminating wisdom, and finally you can see through the separation.

[56:03]

So they can understand that you're also an also-incarnate. Yes. I think Dovin says, and it says in other places, teachings, that there's extra lives that you expect, you know, The consequences of coronary are welcome in this life, but from the next one and the one after it. Excuse me, but next three doesn't mean next three. It means three times mean this life, next life, or future life. It's not next three. Okay, let's do it. Okay, so if that's the case... In the Portuguese, the karma nurtures in free time. Yeah, whose karma is it? We all share it right off the bat. The karma manifests onto five skandhas. That's what it manifests into. So some five skandhas experience as the karmic result. I'll tell you who generated it in the first place. There's a lineage.

[57:09]

That's why I say it's individual. There's a lineage of five skandhas. Five skandhas to another five skandhas. These two fives are interconnected. Then this five skandhas produces the next five skandhas. There's a line of three. And no other five skandhas jumped over to that lineage of the three. It's this lineage of five skandhas. And I can speak. There can be speaking coming from this lineage of five skandhas. This is a lineage of five skandhas here. It does not have to be a sense of self, hardly. This sense of five skandhas can be totally aware of how this five skandhas is entirely due to all the other five skandhas and things that aren't even five skandhas. There can be no sense of self here other than just an idea, and no belief in it, right in the middle of the five skandhas. In that case, the evolution of five skandhas is an evolution of freedom. Five skandhas, when there isn't attachment, tends to produce five skandhas, when there isn't attachment.

[58:11]

When there isn't attachment. And that's a lineage. And you don't jump from one to the other. But this lineage, and you can't liberate another one. But you can show, Buddha show from his lineage. He shows other lineages of Vaisakhandas what freedom looks like in Vaisakhandas, which they need to see. So he can talk from the Buddhist speaks from Vaisakhandas, has a mouth from Vaisakhandas. And other Vaisakhandas hear about this and he says to them, you study yours. He doesn't go around fixing five skandhas all over the place. The five skandhas speak and other five skandhas hear. What they hear is, you study yours and notice that you have this lineage, that you do have a lineage. And your lineage may be, you check it out, is it pain? And what's the pain due to? Is the pain due to this separation? If you can study this separation, study this separation, study how the pain comes from it, you will be free of this separation, and this will become a lineage of five skandhas and freedom.

[59:13]

When the Buddha looked back, he said, when he looked back and saw his path, he saw five skandhas, five skandhas, five skandhas. And when he saw one five skandhas and another five skandhas, that means he could tell the difference between this five skandhas and that five skandhas. and that vice-countess. And there could be a sense of self and a name for each vice-countess. You could see a name. But it wasn't really a self, it was just a name that that vice-countess has. It's like this vice-countess has a name. And whose karma is it? Vice-countess. But it's an imprisoned vice-countess or it's a liberating vice-countess. And if it's a prison, it's a pious khandhas that thinks that this pious khandhas belongs to somebody. That's a prison pious khandhas. If it's a pious khandhas that sees this is a pious khandhas which is independent of all beings, then it's a liberating pious khandhas. It's a happy pious khandhas. It's a teaching pious khandhas. It's a Buddhist teacher. Buddha teacher. It's a Buddhist... A Jew might be a Sufi, but no.

[60:19]

Anyway, it's a Buddha teacher. A liberated, five-sided is a Buddha teacher, teacher Buddha. It's a Buddha. And that Buddha is still in the realm of where the Buddha goes beyond being a Buddha and becomes a Buddha which has gone beyond Buddha and that becomes a lineage of liberation, of liberation, which also keeps teaching. Is there a question? I'm not sure. John Yates? I wanted to ask you, before you start answering this question, is there a way to get to non-discriminating wisdom without having to go through the chain of good karma? In other words, is it possible for one to have the direct perception of non-separation right now, right where I am? Yes. What would be relevant? Is it coming up?

[61:30]

I think so. Is it coming up? I'll let you step in on your next examination and I'll tell you what to do next. Okay, so suffering, the condition for suffering has different names.

[62:37]

One is the Buddha, early on he said that the condition was craving. And there's three kinds of craving. Craving for sensual pleasure. Craving for existence and craving for non-existence. Let's do a touch of craving. Raghatana, bhavatana, vibhavatana. Or raghatrishna, bhavatrishna, and vibhavatrishna. Those correspond basically to greenheading the living. Yes? The secret is the one for sensual pleasure is greed.

[63:43]

Pardon? The one for sensual pleasure is greed, and the one for existence is confusion. I'd say so. The non-existent doesn't mean you really don't want to exist. Non-existent means you want your pain to go away. If you're so angry about your pain that you're willing to call the whole thing off. Basically, you want the annihilation of the pain. That surprised me. When I first met hate types, I thought hate types, since they were so angry and everything, I was surprised how much they liked cookies. But hate types really like to be treated really nicely. Of course, greed types do, too. But greed types, even if you treat them meanly, they can make something good out of it. It was kind of cute the way you slapped me.

[64:44]

I like that. Hate types, you know, they really do like pleasure. And they just really only like pleasure, and they don't like even a little bit of pain. It's just too much. They're willing to call everything off, including you, if you give them the slightest, you know, problem. A lot of good things go here. In other words, there's something to get that makes it all worthwhile. Yeah, right. You know, one more meal. I'll put up with quite a bit for, you know, one more cigarette. Some people are not so much, they don't seem so much going, and they have that irritable, but they really want to keep going. And in some sense, everybody's got that one going, but we just want to keep going.

[65:44]

And I wanted, you know, I think you already know about this, but there's various science fiction movies which are really a nice projection of this basic craving thing, which is, you know, the basis of karma. And it's basically, this karmic mode, this karmic contracting is basically to continue and to be more, to continue to be more. And so I didn't get out in the first, you know, I never saw, what is it, the aliens in a movie. It was a scary movie, but I didn't rent it. I'm ready just to be up the rest of the cultural events. I also saw what is called Halloween. until a year ago. Anyway, so as some of you know, this movie about aliens, but these little creatures that somehow get into your body and then suddenly they eat you.

[66:51]

Little tiny bits of them get in you somehow. Little seeds get in you and they mature until they're about this big. And they're about this big. They burst out of your body and eat you. Is that correct? Mm-hmm. Eating. Eating is a little exaggeration. It's just they burst out. Well, they grow on you. They grow on you. They grow on you and they leave. They want to eat something else. They want to eat something else. Anyway, so that's that. Then they go home. They somehow find out where these aliens come from. They come from another alien. you know, a full-grown, like, queen bee type of alien, right? And she's really big, you know? And she... But, you know, she really cares about her babies. Yeah. She really cares about her babies, and her thing is to produce lots of these babies and make sure that they grow up to be strong, healthy, of, you know, critters.

[67:53]

Not all of them will grow to be like her, because she's a critter, but that's her whole thing, is how to, like, produce more, more herb kind of thing. And where do you think this movement has got that idea? They got the idea from this, from this plant. We have a situation that's, that's how, those are the animals that live on this planet, or animals that have that basic motivation. Well, we are not necessarily like that. Well, our parents were. Our parents were. Not necessarily our aunts and uncles, because they didn't necessarily reproduce, but our parents were. Our parents were. And our parents' parents were. Not necessarily our parents' aunts and uncles, but our parents' parents. The breeders are like this. But people who reproduce are like this. They don't reproduce by accident, not by accident.

[68:55]

Well, I guess sometimes you say, well, some people are rich, right? But her mother may be, or certainly her father is. We come from beings who did not sort of have any opportunity to reproduce. Some beings do. They're not our ancestors. Are you saying that an enlightened person is going to deny his biological makeup? No, I'm not saying an enlightened person would not deny their biological makeup, definitely would not deny it at all, because if you deny it, Those who deny it are like perverts, often. Not all perverts are ones who deny it, but everybody who denies it is a pervert.

[70:00]

Buddhas are totally aware and totally accept their biological equipment. They totally accept it, and therefore they can become free of it. And if you don't totally accept your biological stuff, you cannot be free. You cannot be free and not totally accept it. But once you're free, then you can do some fantastic stuff. For example, you could let other people go first. You say, no, go ahead, please. Here, take my pen and paper. See if that'll be beneficial. You can do anything that's beneficial to beings as long as you're free. Which could be you could have 40 kids or zero. If you've already had some kids, you could take care of them or have somebody else take care of them. It would help somebody else take care of your kid and help your kid to be taken care of by somebody else. You could do that. You could do whatever would benefit beings when you were free. That's the great thing about it.

[71:06]

And you'd love it. You'd be happy to do it. And it looked like it was not acting on the usual animal thing. That's what it would look like. Because in fact, you only act on the usual animal thing. It was beneficial. And sometimes it is. If we had all Buddhas, we might decide, would somebody please reproduce? And, you know, everybody would volunteer. We say, well, not again. We just wanted some people to volunteer. Well, tell us which one do you want to volunteer, you know? Then our Buddhas are like little, you know, automatons. You have to do something to say yes. until they find out it's not helpful. Anything that's helpful, they'll all volunteer. So if we have all Buddhas, we'd have to figure out which ones to produce if we wanted to have more demons. So we'd have exactly that number of humans we wanted to if everybody was a Buddha.

[72:08]

We might decide, yeah, let's just keep some demons on the planet. Just order, finally, a full one. Let's do it. Let's keep it going just in case some other beings evolve that need the dharma later. We're all Buddhas now. We don't need it anymore. It's possible that Kali's and so on don't ensure it. It's not your right if they'll eat the dharma later. So let's just keep going for them and for our own. So we might decide that to keep, you know, 150 Buddhas on deployment. Now, of course, we know that as soon as they were reborn, some of them would have to choose the ones who could remember that they were Buddhist through the birth process. So I said, well, I'm really kidding. I'm not sure if that worked. Okay. Okay. Yes, please. What you say reminds me of this documentary I saw on the Discovery Channel over vacation, and it was about this virus that they're trying to investigate.

[73:15]

It's something that had to do with mouse species. It's actually killing also children. But what's interesting to me is when they show the virus replicating, they start, you know, they make the documentary and they show this really ominous music, you know. And you start getting this association that the virus is something evil. And I guess what it reminded me of is that this virus is just, you know, in itself it's neutral. It's just trying to replicate itself, duplicate itself. And we are too. And to me, the problem just seemed to be when we have this, I mean, from a human point of view, it's really tragic that children are dying from this. But I think from an absolute point of view, it's just something going on. something that may grow in a person that may kill them. And it just made me think about how we form these notions of evil, you know, something coming in that's not us. And it's all it's doing, it's just doing what we're doing, it's just kind of getting along. Right, but from, yeah, so from our point of view, that way of behaving, which we're familiar with, for us, it makes us unhappy.

[74:19]

Mm-hmm. So, it's not necessarily evil or bad to be miserable and to be unhappy and to be cruel to each other, but we feel like that. We absolutely, maybe from some point of view, it's just the way things are, you know. In the universe, on the planet Earth, human beings are cruel to each other and suffer a lot. Maybe from some point of view it's not a problem, but from our point of view, it's a problem. We want to be happy. And we want to stop being cruel to each other. We want them to stop being cruel to us. And that's the way the virus acts. When we act like that, that's a problem for us. So in that sense, we project evil on the virus. Because for us to be like that would be evil, would hurt us. Maybe it isn't a problem for the virus. Maybe they're perfectly happy doing that. I don't know. I really don't know. So I guess the thing I'd like to bring up at this point is, do you have a sense of how to meditate on the first truth?

[75:26]

How do you do that? Be mindful of what? Anything in particular? Be mindful. And then if you're mindful, maybe you'll notice some discomfort sometimes. You might feel a little, maybe the zendo will be a little too warm or something. Or maybe you feel trapped in there sometimes. Like you wish the period would be a little shorter. Maybe you wish the period wouldn't even start sometimes. So if you still go to the Zen Do, feel what it's like to walk to the Zen Do when you feel a little uncomfortable about going to the Zen. If that's what you feel, if you feel happy about going to the Zen Do, that's okay. Just be mindful of what it's like to happily go to the Zen Do. So just be mindful and see if you happen to notice any discomfort, any physical discomfort, any emotional discomfort. See if you can notice the discomfort of feeling separate from what it feels. Now, I don't want you to like, actually, I really don't want you to like lean towards the discovery here.

[76:37]

I don't want you to, but I just want to tell you to sort of keep your eye open, and then if you notice it, report. See? But I really don't want you to lean towards the discovery of any particular kind of self, because that would interfere with your mindfulness. Does that make sense? Just completely open. and aware, and you just have to see if it gives you information as a confirmation of the first truth. You notice all three types of this suffering without even looking for it. Because if you look for it, it'll bias your sample, I think. You'll feel, I think, you'll be more authentic and more confident in what you find if you're just open to seeing whatever any of this stuff pops in your face. Again, like you've heard me say a number of times, the North Corral quote is, all you need to do is sit long enough in an attractive spot in the forest, and all of the inhabitants will exhibit themselves to you in turn.

[77:46]

all the different kinds of suffering will come forth and show themselves to you in some pattern, which is how do you determine if you just are present in some attractive spot turns out to be very attractive practically. You can do that practice and see what beings exhibit themselves, what forms of experience exhibit themselves to you. So you can notice these three types. I think you can now, when you notice one or more of these types. Again, you can notice some of them are simultaneous, but two types are the same. You can't notice number one and number two at the same time. Maybe you'll be proven wrong. But you can notice number one and number three together, and number two and number three together, and number three by itself. Hold that to see if you find anything different. You can notice these three types of suffering. And when you notice it, just continue your mindfulness practice. Primarily, more than anything, continue your mindfulness practice when you notice the suffering.

[78:54]

Now, you may notice that when the suffering arises, you may notice some karmic activity starting to crop up, but to do something about it. Well, okay, I'm not saying anything about that. If you want to do something about the suffering, then notice the karmic. It's trying to notice the thing. Something is wrong with this kind of stuff. Something is wrong with this kind of stuff. I'm going to do something about this, okay? That's delusion. Something is wrong with this kind of stuff. You've just brought the first truth in your view and you're saying something wrong. No, something's right. Your practice is good. You're starting to see the truth. It's not something pleasant, but it's true. You see suffering. But still, it's maybe some delusion or karma arising on it. Just be mindful of that. Watch what happens. I mean, there won't be... Just keep studying. And then just keep studying and studying. And then see, keep studying it. And then, again... know that if you can concentrate on, if you study with the suffering, the origination of it will reveal itself.

[79:58]

The second truth will pop up too. And then you can see the second truth, and you can see the second truth in the first truth, and you can see the third truth in the second truth. So in the suffering, the second truth is in the suffering, the third truth is in the suffering. All three of you. And watching them is important. The mindfulness of them is important. Studying is important. It's three truths. It's right here. Mindfulness is right mindfulness. So either mindfulness, right view. See if you can actually like it. And now I'm telling you this, right? I told you that you heard me say this. Now see if you can bring what I said and make, like, the nature of your mind to be, like, see if your mind can become like a mind that generates the first truth. It contains the first truth.

[81:01]

It contains the second truth. It contains the third truth. It contains mindfulness. See if I can become your mind. I just look at it. Well, when pain comes up, at that time you just looked at it, right? Just looked at it. That's enough. Then I go back to my breath. Yeah, fine. Where's the study point? The study point is right at the time of seeing the pain, okay? You just see the pain. That's enough. That's the study. So when I come back to my breath then, is there something going on in this process?

[82:03]

Well, the next time, or maybe not the next time, but maybe several times later, you sit in there again, pain comes up. Have you ever had the experience of following your breathing and pain comes up? And then it goes away, and then it comes up, and it goes away, and it comes up again, and it goes away, and it comes up. Have you ever had the experience of following your breath and having pain coming up more than the breath? I'll get on your dress and mainly what's coming up is pain. It's breathing pain or painful breathing. It's pain, pain, pain. Just keep watching it. Keep watching it. Keep watching this. When it appears, you can appear it. When you see it, you see it. That's it. That's the way most trust the first truth. Don't try to pry open the first truth. Where is the origination in it? Don't look for the second truth. If the first truth is appearing, the first truth is appearing, trust that. Because that's what's happening. That's what's happening. When it goes away, it goes, oh, come back, come back.

[83:07]

Let the last truth go away. Let suffering go away. When pleasure comes up, oh, pleasure. Oh, it's pleasure. What is he talking about? Suffering changes. This is pleasure. What? Pleasure, pleasure, [...] pleasure. Just let it be pleasure, you know, until finally you start to say, it's been going on for quite a while, and then all of a sudden it walks. Oops. And you see the second kind of thing. Don't try to look for it, but you'll see it. You have enough pleasure. You'll rediscover the second kind of suffering. If you just keep watching your suffering this way, you'll gradually, as you As you study the gross, you know, as you study the gross, you gradually see the soul. If you don't study the gross, it's in your way, you know. Like right now, I put my hands up in front of my face, but I feel it's not a very good example, because I can see it right away, but if I have my hands in front of my face, and I keep studying my hand long enough, eventually I can see through it, and you see it.

[84:17]

Same way you study your cravings. and suffering in relationship to it. Study the craving, study the craving. You'll see that the craving is the suffering, and you'll see that the suffering comes from the craving. So just keep watching this and you'll start to see. But I don't want you to push yourself around and try to look at this and that. Just be present. If you're following your breathing, you're following your breathing. And all this stuff reveals all the inhabitants will come and reveal themselves. Different kinds of suffering will come, different kinds of suffering will come, and gradually different kinds of suffering will be saved. This is suffering number one, and this is the origination of suffering number one. When you start seeing all the suffering and the origination, then you're going to start to see what the conditions of the origination are. When you start seeing the conditions of the origination, you're going to start to develop a mind that wants to renounce those conditions. And also when you see the extent of the suffering, you're not only going to want to renounce the conditions, but you're also going to see, you know, I really do, I actually cannot put up with this that much longer.

[85:25]

I mean, I really need to, like, come free of the suffering. But if you don't see a lot of the suffering, you may not realize that you really do need to come free of it. It's not like, it's not like you really... You know, it's not like you just crave continued existence and that's going to really work out for you. You really do need liberation. So by meditating on suffering, seeing how it works, these two kinds of minds will come up in a sense, two aspects of the Buddha. One is you'll see that you really do want liberation, and you really are willing to work for it, and you really are willing to let go of the conditions for it. Those two things, the mind of renunciation and the mind of liberation, both arise from meditating on suffering. Again, if your sample is good, don't go looking for it. If you're following your breathing, you're following your breathing. If you're doing that, but if you're meditating on your posture, you're meditating on your posture. You're concentrating on the vegetables, concentrating on that. Whatever you do, whatever kind of karmic you're doing, if you are doing karmic work, do that with skillfulness.

[86:30]

And in the midst of that skillful karmic work, First truth will present itself. And when it's ready to present itself, it will present itself because the great karma will give you that benefit. It will give you the gift of showing you the first truth. And it will take the first truth away. It will give you another example. It will give you another example. This is the benefit. This is the result of the great karma that the teacher has presented to you. Does that make sense? Do you have some sense of how I practice that? I am a little bit too self-aware.

[87:27]

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