Does renunciation happen? How is renunciation born? Well, the first step in renunciation being born is where you've got to have something to renounce. So, in order that we have something to renounce, the first step is that we're deluded. And that comes naturally to people. Because people naturally, with normal perceptual and conscious life, we tend to see things as out there, as over there. We see people over there, we see walls over there, we see dogs over there. We hear people over there, we hear dogs over there. We even feel like our own feelings are kind of like over there, like there's me and my feelings. So we tend, whatever we're aware of, we tend to make it external or see it outside ourself or over there.

[01:04]

And then, once we have this thing external or over there, we kind of instinctively grasp it. And this sense of beings, that we are a living being or that we're something that's separate from from other beings and separate from our experience, this sense of separation and then grasping that as real creates anxiety or pain. Once we externalize the world and feel separate from it we feel threatened by it. The next phase in the process is maybe hearing about this, maybe hearing that people are anxious. Because a lot of people are anxious, but they don't think they're supposed to be, so they pretend like they're not. And they pretend like they're not.

[02:09]

They don't tell other people that they are. And after a while, they even convince themselves that they're not. So they walk around, you say, how are you feeling? They say, fine. And you say, really? I mean, I'm actually asking how you feel. I'm fine. No problems? No. I mean, really? No, I'm fine. Really. And they actually think that. But, you know, little things can show you that they don't feel so fine, like you scratch their car and they fly into a rage. Or you tell them that they're going to get fired and they wet their pants. And things like that show you that actually they're not actually so unafraid as they say. And I may have mentioned this before, but one time a woman told me that she was anxious and I told her that other people were too and she was really amazed. She didn't think anybody else was. And if you don't think you're the only one that is, you keep it to yourself. And so everybody thinks they're the only one that's anxious, even the ones who know about it, so they don't tell anybody else.

[03:13]

So everybody's keeping it from everybody else, so everybody thinks they're the only one. And they don't want to be the only one, so you're not going to be one either. So nobody's anxious. But in Buddhist meditation centers, the people tend to gradually find out the other people are, so they admit it too. They admit it, they actually feel it. So the Buddha said, you know, it is true that people are anxious. Not just you guys, even I was anxious before I woke up. It's a normal state for a human being to be anxious because it's a normal state for human beings to not understand themselves. When you don't understand yourself, you're uncomfortable and scared. When you do understand yourself, you're not scared anymore because what you actually are is nothing to worry about. you're actually just fine. The only thing is about understanding it better. So the teaching says it's normal to be anxious until you're enlightened.

[04:16]

And if you're not enlightened, you're anxious. And if you think you're not anxious, then let's talk about it. And if you think you're enlightened, then you shouldn't be anxious, and so on. And if you are anxious, then the teaching is practice patience with it. Practicing patience with this anxiety which is based on delusion will lead you to enlightenment and freedom from this delusion and freedom from this anxiety. So one of the first steps is recognizing the problem and then practicing patience. And not only patience, but compassion. In other words, wishing for yourself and other beings who are suffering to practice patience so that they can be free of it. If you practice patience, And practice patience means you give yourself the gift of practicing patience and you actually wish for yourself that you would be able to understand what this suffering is based on and that you'd be free of it and you actually want yourself to be happy.

[05:22]

This kind of practicing patience leads to the birth of the mind of renunciation. not quite renunciation, but the mind of renunciation, which is the willingness to let go of attachments and the willingness to let go of deluded views. And there's a term in Zen, which is called in Japanese, a new shin, and new means soft or gentle or pliable or meek. And shin means mind or heart. And one time, Dogen Zenji asked his teacher, what is the mind of the bodhisattva? And the teacher said, it's this soft mind. He says, what is this soft mind? He said, soft mind is the willingness to let go of your body and your mind.

[06:34]

Just let go of it. Just don't be attached to it. It's the willingness to do that. And how do you develop this mind? What you do is you sit in the middle of the world of all suffering beings, which just happens to be where you are right now. Each one of you is the center of the world of all suffering beings. They're all surrounding each one of us. And what you do is you just sit at your place with your suffering, with your pain, and you feel the pain of all other beings around you, which just happens to be there, so you don't have to make it up. And all Buddhas are sitting in that place. If they have different bodies, they sit in different locations, but basically, spiritually speaking, they're sitting, each Buddha is sitting at the center of all suffering. They don't sit on the edge of the suffering, in the suburbs of the suffering.

[07:44]

They sit in downtown suffering. And each of us is already there. But if we want to be like a Buddha, we should sit there in the middle of that feeling. And if we sit in the middle of our own suffering, patiently, which means lovingly, wishing ourselves and others to be free of this suffering while accepting it in its current manifestation. This patient sitting in the middle of our suffering gives rise to this soft mind. It tenderizes us. It tenderizes our mind and our heart and our grip. We develop this soft heart, this soft mind, willingness to let go because as we're patient we can see more and more that the sufferings coming from holding on to what doesn't need to be gripped our body doesn't need to be held our mind doesn't need to be held but holding it is painful and makes us afraid when you're not afraid you don't hold on to your body

[09:02]

You just let it function. When you're not afraid, you don't hold on to your mind. You let it function. So when you see that holding is the pain source, you want to let go of that. Wanting to let go is not the same as letting go, but it kind of helps. You get ready for letting go. So basically you sit there. practicing patience and this willingness arises, this wish to let go arises, and as the wish to let go arises and you keep dealing with things on an ongoing basis, patiently and compassionately, the time comes when there is letting go. As you sit in this patient state watching the relationship between delusion and pain over and over, willing to let the delusion go, the delusion of what? The delusion that you're separate. The delusion that you have to hold on to yourself.

[10:03]

You gradually see that that's a delusion and you gradually see that you're not separate. And then you let go. Or you let go and then you see that you're not separate. That's how renunciation happens. Normal human life, delusion, anxiety, pain, then patience and compassion gives rise to this mind of renunciation, the willingness to let go, and then finally actual letting go happens, is realized. And renunciation is recommended not because it's something you need to do, it's something you need to realize. And generally speaking, in the Buddhist practice, the things you're encouraged to realize are things that are already so, that we don't get.

[11:16]

So you're already released, you're already liberated, but you don't get it. Renunciation is the way you get it, the way you understand it. So the famous Zen example is practicing archery. One of the early books I read about Zen is called Zen and the Art of Archery, the first Zen and the Art of books written by a German. But the English translation really caught on. Zen and the Art of Archery. So the archery teacher teaches this guy, what you do is you go to the archery class, you take the bow, you pull the bow string back, and you just hold it. You hold it. This is like normal human life. You're holding something. And it's a strain to hold it. And you hold it until the string is released. But you don't release it. He says, you just hold it until it is released.

[12:20]

And when it's released, it will be like the strings of the bow go through your fingers. And then this guy who wrote the book, he held it for many hours of practice, and he got really tired holding it, just like we get tired holding on to our body and mind. It's very tiring. It's very tiring. It's not that much fun to hold it. Actually, having a body in mind is actually quite nice. It's the holding of it that's tiring. It's the protecting it. It's the grasping it. And clinging, that's the suffering problem. But just having a body, you know, it's called life. And life's called having a body. No problem, really. It's the grasping. Based on that, I have to take care of myself all by myself, and you're not helping me. unless I kind of just, you know, make some kind of a contract with you. So you're holding this string, and he had this idea of he's going to let go of this string without letting go of it, or it's going to be let go of without him doing anything.

[13:31]

So what he did is he held it half as much. Didn't really let go. He just held it half as strong. And then he held it half as strong again, and half as strong again, and half as strong again. So he realized that if he just kept doing that without letting go, it would be let go. He kept halving it, and halving it, and halving it, and finally the string went without him letting go. He figured out a way to do it. In other words, he figured out a way to let it go. In other words, he was still holding on. And the teacher saw him and kicked him out of the school. and said, don't ever come back here. And he begged and begged for years to come back, and the teacher wouldn't let him. And finally, I don't know how long it took, but it took a long time of begging for years, and finally he allowed him to come back, and then he just went back to the practice of pulling the string and holding it. And no more tricks. Just patiently experience the suffering

[14:32]

of being a human who thinks he's holding something. And he held it, and one day the string went. And it was like it went through his fingers. He didn't let go of it. It went. You see, the string's already released. And we don't understand that. So we have to pull the string to act sort of as a metaphor for our delusion until we understand that the string's already released. so you have to sit with your life and feel how you hold it and feel how you hold it and be willing for the release to happen but you have to just sit there until the release happens and it naturally will happen because it's already so and now I go to what renunciation is and I said, I put this first rather than renunciation because I think last week I put renunciation first and then people get scared when they find out what it is.

[15:44]

So now I'm just telling you how it happens. And now I'll tell you sort of more what it is. What it is, it is, you know, to let go. It is to let go of attachment. It is non-attachment. Okay? Of what? when you find out what it is you get scared you know maybe get scared because the things that you let go of are exactly the things we're afraid to let go of so it's basically five different kinds of things you let go of and those are exactly the five fears you let go of your life doesn't mean you kill yourself You just let go of it. Just let your life be there. Are you alive? Okay, check in to your life and then let go of it. That's what it is. Your life is already released. You don't get it. But when you renounce your life, you let go of it. You don't dislike it. You just stop gripping it. So that goes with the fear of. So letting go is hindered by the fear of death.

[16:49]

You also have a state of mind. You let go of it. That goes with the fear of going insane. You let go, in other words, you let go of controlling your mind. And many of us think, well, if I stop controlling my mind, then what will happen to my mind? I might think of whatever. I might think I'm bisexual. Who knows what my mind might do? I might think I'm straight. I might think I'm a Republican. I might think I'm Newt Gingrich. So, you know, who wants to let go of their mind? Well, bodhisattvas do. They want to let go. They'd like to let go because holding on is a bummer. But then there's this fear of letting go, of going insane, of losing control of the state of your mind.

[17:57]

What else do you let go? You let go of wealth. You let go of your livelihood. Doesn't mean you don't have any wealth or a livelihood. It means you let go of it. What does that go with? That goes with the fear of losing your job. And then you also let go of your reputation or your fame. That goes with the fear of losing your reputation. And the last fear, it's kind of a surprising one, is the fear of speaking in public to a large group. Kind of surprises people, but many people, that's their main fear. I mean, it's the one they're most in touch with. Because you can't really, like, it's hard to get real close to death sometimes without doing something pretty dangerous. They made a movie recently called Crash about these people intentionally getting in car accidents to get in touch with that thrill of death, of being afraid of death.

[19:04]

And also, you know, well, actually, some people are in touch with some of these other fears, like fear of losing your job or reputation. But public speaking is rather harmless. All you've got to do is just stand up in front of a bunch of people and give a talk. And it turns out that many people find that the most frightening thing in their life. Because in some ways, all the other fears come to bear on there. You can lose your job in public speaking. You can lose your reputation. You can lose your mind. You can lose your life. All those can happen in that one. When you let go, you're not afraid of that stuff anymore. Another way to talk about it is there's three kinds of categories of stuff you can hold on to. You can hold on to material stuff, psychological stuff, and spiritual stuff. So material stuff is like your body, your possessions, your job,

[20:11]

And your reputation is kind of a little bit material, a little bit psychological. Let go of that kind of stuff. Psychologically means let go of your state of mind, which a lot of meditators have a problem with. A lot of meditators don't have too much problem. They're willing to let go to some extent of the material things. but they're somewhat attached to their state of mind. Now, if you let go of material things, you still may have some material things like a body, a spouse, who says, yes, you own me. You have a house. You might still have stuff like that, but you let go of them. You live in a house, you live in a body, you have a partner, but you let go. You have some books, but you're not attached to them. So you're not afraid of people coming and taking your house, taking your books.

[21:14]

That's the first story I told last week. They come to take your books, you say, here, take my books. Fine, if you want them. You're not afraid of losing your books. So some spiritual practitioners actually have some books, but aren't afraid of somebody stealing them. they can actually give them away. And also they have maybe a pretty good state of mind, or maybe they have a lousy state of mind which they're willing to give away. But sometimes even if they have a good state of mind, they may be willing to give it away. But if you can let go of your material things and your psychological states, then you have quite a spiritual attainment. Can you imagine not afraid anymore of what state of mind you have? Or not afraid of losing the one you've got? Are you material things? Are you your reputation? Are you a job? You're not afraid? Can you imagine? Looks like you can't. So maybe you won't get this next one.

[22:18]

But if you could let go of all that stuff, that would be quite a spiritual attainment. You'd be like pretty top-notch yogi. Well... You've got to let go of that, that attainment, that spiritual attainment too. You can't be attached to freedom even. Because you can still be anxious about losing your freedom from anxiety. You can be worried on some subtle level of losing your freedom from pain. You even have to let go of that. And so again, what are the factors that interfere with letting go? With the whole process?

[23:20]

Well, again, most of the things that interfere with the process are the very things that you want to let go of. So the basic thing you want to let go of is self-concern, is the belief that you're independent. That's the basic thing you want to let go of. If you let go of that, you're all set. But that self-concern then and that sense of independent is always fighting you, letting go. So that's a big problem. That's a big obstacle, the very thing. The key thing to let go of is a thing that's kind of like interfering. Is it getting hot in here? Can you open? Would it be okay to open those? Can you stand up to be open over that side, Dave? Since I'm talking, I can probably stay awake in this heat, but I think you're going to pass out pretty soon.

[24:35]

So the will to power or to control, that goes against renunciation. And in fact, renunciation is to give up power and to switch to love. Renunciation is to give up the illusion of control and to switch to gratitude. But until you've realized, even if you want to let go of these things, still, the addiction to power and control, or the addiction to power and the illusion of control, make it hard for you to let go. There are two forms of resistance to, two basic dimensions of resistance to renunciation.

[25:44]

One form of resistance is like holding back from it, being afraid of it. That actually, that's normal. Because again, renunciation is to let go of holding back, let go of protecting yourself, let yourself free to live with all beings. So one form of resistance is like holding on because you're afraid and so on. Afraid and also habituated to trying to get things under control. The other kind of actually hindrance or resistance is to overdo it. That's a kind of hindrance. Letting go is to let go of what you actually can let go of. And if you let go of too much, that's because too much means ahead of schedule, what you're not really ready to let go of. To try to let go of something that you're not ready to let go of is a kind of laziness.

[26:46]

In some sense, there's two kinds of inertia, right? Inertia means resistance to acceleration, but I think it also is resistance to deceleration. In other words, if you're in motion, you tend to continue in motion. That's inertia. Or if you're at rest, you tend to stay at rest. So an aspect of laziness is that if you're moving, if you're moving, you tend to just keep moving, even though it might not be appropriate because you've already gotten to the place you want to get to. Another thing is where you are, you tend to not want to move from. So one kind of laziness is a laziness of indolence. You don't want to move. You don't want to let go. The other one is once you start moving towards letting go, you don't stop at the place where you should. You overwork because you're not paying attention.

[27:51]

And you're not paying attention because you're being lazy. So you can give up too much. You can give up too much. You can overdo the giving and then get hurt or hurt somebody else. So, for example, you could say, well, I'm going to give up all my possessions. But you give up more than you're ready to give up and regret it. Or you give up possessions that don't belong to you, maybe just to you. You give up possessions that belong to your family. And then that causes problems. Or you give more of your energy and time than really is good for you at this time in your development. Overwork is a kind of laziness. Overgiving or over-renunciation for where you are is a kind of laziness. That's a kind of resistance to doing the actual renunciation which is appropriate to you. And you can see both varieties.

[29:00]

Maybe the most common one is not holding back, but overdoing is also fairly common among spiritual people. So Donald asked me to talk about how it is that After renunciation, you take better care of yourself and better care of yourself, better care of your work, better care of your friends. How does that work? Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is that you're not holding on to yourself anymore. You know, your hands are not holding on to yourself because your hands are available now. You are available because you're not being held anymore. Also, you're not so anxious. So, in some situation that requires your attention, previous before renunciation, it requires your attention, but you're hobbled by attachment and fear and anxiety.

[30:06]

Now, after renunciation, you're liberated from anxiety and also liberated from attachment, both, so you're courageously available You have lots of energy because you're not wasting your energy resisting what's going on. And also you're unafraid to enter into whatever is appropriate. And also you can see better what's appropriate because you have just been training your eyes by looking at suffering. and its conditions and seeing how it works and wanting to let go of the condition for suffering. So you've developed your insight, your wisdom, your compassion, which is going along all the time, your patience, and now you're free and have a lot of energy. So you're much better able to take care of things. And again, all along, In practicing patience, you have to be kind to yourself, but you've also been developing gentleness and kindness to yourself in the process of settling into your suffering.

[31:19]

So you've also been training yourself at love and compassion. So that's also now part of your skills that are available, that have been developed and are now freed up. A friend of mine told me that he has two little children. One of them is what's called perfectly normal and healthy. The other one has some birth defects. And he's trying to practice with the son who, you know, with both sons, but particularly with the little boy who has the birth defects. And He's trying to practice. Of course, he wants his little boy to be healthy and happy.

[32:22]

He wants his little boy to be free of pain. And he wants his little boy to have a good adjustment to life. But he also knows his little boy is going to have a hard time because of his, you know, being different from other kids. And so he wishes well. He wishes well. for his boy. He wishes the best for his little boy, but he also accepts that his little boy has a problem. But his wife doesn't like him to accept that the little boy has problems. She doesn't think it's good to accept that the little boy has problems. She thinks if you accept that he has problems, that you don't care. And if you don't care, you might not work for his welfare. So she wants her husband to be anxious about it and worry about it. That's what she's doing. So I would guess that she, to some extent, she wants her husband to start worrying and be anxious because probably maybe she wants some company, which is reasonable.

[33:27]

So it's possible to be company with someone who shares your concern for some afflicted being. You both care for this being. You're both concerned for this being suffering. But this person's suffering, this person's anxious and worried, and you're not anxious and worried. It's possible to be with them and empathize with them and yet not adopt the same view that they have. But it's tricky. You don't want to be like distancing yourself from the situation as the reason for why you're not as anxious and worried as the other person. So he has not only the problem, not only the challenge of caring for his son, but in accepting his son's situation, accepting his son's situation and feeling compassion for his son, but also accepting his wife's situation, who doesn't, her situation is she doesn't like the way he is. She has to accept that she doesn't like the fact that he's not as anxious and that he's not angry.

[34:34]

at the way his son is, and she doesn't like that he accepts that his son has a problem. So, now one way is just switch, you know, and be worried like her, and be anxious like her, and not accept the son's condition like her, and then she won't have a problem with you. That's a possible technique. But it's not the way he wants to do it, and I agree with him. I think it's better to accept that the son has the problem, care that he has the problem, want to help him, do anything to help him. As a matter of fact, be better able to help him if you don't worry. Better able to help him if you're not anxious and afraid. Better able to help him if you are accepting. If you don't accept, and you want your son to improve or your daughter to improve, but you don't accept the way they are, then you drain yourself every moment you're like that, and pretty soon you burn out because you're weakening yourself by this devotion rather than enlivening yourself by that devotion.

[35:54]

This kind of work, when done well, doesn't tire you out. Of course, it's very hard to do it perfectly like that, but that's the goal is to be devoted without looking down on the way the person is now. Looking down on the way they are now is looking down on your experience. It's not being friendly to yourself. It's not being patient with yourself. And it's not going to be the place where your renunciation is going to be born. so here i am i have my own problems my son has problems my wife has problems my wife has problems with me this is hard for me i wish myself well but i don't try to be somebody else i sit there and i let go of my attachment and i'm able to accept that my wife doesn't like me and wish that she would be free of not liking me and accept that she's that way and hope the best for her and accept that I'm this way and hope the best for me and accept the way my son is and hope the best for my son but also not run away from my wife who has a problem with me being this way not run away from my wife who has a problem with her son being this way be close to her

[37:18]

be unafraid of being near her suffering and her dislike of me, her lack of approval of me, but being willing to be me. And renunciation of these concerns goes with being willing to be me. And being willing to be me means I let go of me. As long as I'm holding on to me, I really can't fully be myself. Also, Donald mentioned to me that sometimes there's some kind of good thing. Sometimes you feel like it's good and there's an impulse to hold on to it. Again, like some really fine psychological state or some spiritual attainment. It's good and there's some tendency like let's have more of that. Normal tendency. But sometimes you know if you try to hold on to certain spiritual attainments or certain artistic attainments, if you hold on to them, it goes stale. Like I know this painter who he did some paintings at a certain time in his life and they were very successful.

[38:25]

And he could have just kept repeating those paintings and people would keep buying over and over. But his artistic thing was he had to move on to something else and people didn't like what he moved on to. If he'd stayed where he was, he would have got really rich and really famous and died artistically, at least for a while. Now some people say, why don't you just die for a couple of years and then move on? You never know if you'll get it back if you sell yourself out like that. You may lose touch with your heart if you sell it out and never recover. And so many artists, as you know, they maybe hit a part. Sometimes they hit a time when people are very popular and people like their paintings. And they say, well, thanks for buying the paintings. And I'm out of here. I'm going on to this stuff. And you don't like this stuff. I'm sorry. And then you go on from there and do something they don't like. And from there, there's something like, can you die? And 50 years later, they think the stuff you did was really great. Of course, you died miserable, poor, and unpopular.

[39:31]

But your heart was alive the whole time. and your inspiration for generations afterwards. But it's hard sometimes to be unpopular, right? It's not pleasant. But sometimes that's what it takes to be alive. In other words, if you're alive, you're unpopular sometimes, sometimes with your wife. So sometimes it's easy, but sometimes artists and yoga teachers and whatever can see that if they hold on to this attainment it will kill them so they don't hold on to it they let go of it even though it's good and that's good but sometimes it's harder to let go of things which you'd like to let go of like anxiety so I'm like my friend he's having a hard time letting go of something he'd like to let go of namely his anxiety because You know, maybe if you're letting go of anxiety, you're being irresponsible. Maybe being responsible means you're anxious.

[40:34]

So if you let go of that, maybe you're just being kind of like, you know, whatever, man, I don't care. Especially if your wife's saying, you know, you're being irresponsible not to hate the way our son is. It's tough, you know. Like be happy, you know, have a son that's suffering and be happy because you have a beautiful son, a beautiful son who you love, a person in your life that gives you an opportunity to do the thing you came for, to love. And you have another son you can love too, but you have two sons that you can love, one that's got a lot of problems, the other one that doesn't. You're happy, but you feel maybe, well, is it okay to be happy when I'm living with suffering beings? You know, like somebody, I think Bertolt Brecht said that, you know, in certain phases of his culture, you know, it was like you weren't really on if you could appreciate a tree. You know, if you could see a tree, if you could like enjoy seeing a tree, there wasn't okay.

[41:38]

Sometimes people think, you know, you cannot be happy and like really be compassionate. No, you can be compassionate. You can care about people to the utmost to still be happy because caring about people to the utmost is happiness. When you care about others, that frees you of anxiety. When you care about them and want the best for them but aren't gripping, you really do appreciate them and care about them. That is happiness. But if you attach to yourself or to them, attach to some particular state in yourself or in them, then you become anxious. Renunciation is to let go so you can appreciate and bring love and happiness to suffering beings. But it's hard sometimes. It's tricky. And like I say, your wife, your husband, your neighbor, You know, hey, your kid's sick.

[42:43]

How come you're happy? You should be miserable. Well, yeah, well, I'm not. I'm sorry. Well, you know, you're just a jerk, and I'm going to turn you in. You must be crazy not to be miserable. I'm not miserable. I'm happy. I love my little boy. I'm so happy to be a father of this boy. I'm sorry he's, you know, suffering. I want him to be happy, but I love him. And I also maybe told you this before. I know this other child who was born with many, many, much worse birth defects than this one. And he's now 15 years old. And he's nearly died so many times. He suffers so much. But he keeps living because his parents love him so much. He sticks around for the love. But he really has a hard time. Most people would have checked out a long time ago if they suffered as much as him. But his parents just They just, you know, they make it worthwhile.

[43:45]

So he keeps going on, and this kid, like, has big problems. So anyway, it is hard sometimes to let go of the very things you like to let go of because you're afraid you're going to be irresponsible or unfeeling or something like that. So it's tricky. So maybe you want to talk about some of these problems around renunciation, some questions about this. Right. Right. That's what it seems like. Most people feel like that. They feel like, I'm separate from society. It doesn't take care of me. It won't take care of me unless I make special arrangements. But it's not true that society doesn't support you.

[44:54]

It does support you. It's just that we think it doesn't. We're deluded. Buddha doesn't feel unsupported. But the normal human being feels supported by some people, like eight people support me. but you think that they only support you under certain circumstances. Or maybe you feel like eight people support me if I do this, and one person supports me no matter what. Or three people support me no matter what. But that's not very many. I mean, it's great that you feel like three do, but there's six billion other ones that don't, plus frogs and lightning bolts. know and bacteria and viruses okay the Buddha feels supported by all life normal human beings feel supported by some life the life that they don't feel supported by they feel worried about and anxious about because if it doesn't support me maybe it'll even turn to hostility normal human beings know on some level that they need support

[46:05]

Buddha understands that she needs support from everybody, and that everybody needs her support, and that she's getting support from everybody, and that she's giving support to everybody. That's enlightenment, when you see that, when you understand that. When we're deluded, we think, some people support me, most people don't. Most people don't care about me. And if you go up and do an interview, they'll say, yeah, I don't care about him. One time I was having a meeting with some people, and there was a facilitator there. And I thought some of these people were not being very nice to me. But afterwards, he told me, he said, it's incredible how much those people love you, feel unafraid and loving. When I take my point of view, I feel scared. and susceptible to anger and so on. So given the human perspective, the world looks dangerous and unsupportive.

[47:15]

And so we have to use power to negotiate peace treaties or trade agreements with various people, enough to make a little enclave of protection against the hostile world. that's a normal human perspective but when you do that you always feel afraid that people will change the agreement without talking to you or that you'll fall down and not do what's required of you and then they'll withdraw their support it's always contingent on certain performances and certain powers that you have so that's why as people get older they get frightened because they lose the powers to fulfill the agreements by which they made to get their support And yet, sometimes even when old people can't do anything, some people still support them. And when we're babies, we get supported. And we don't do any work or make any deals.

[48:19]

But we gradually get taught, you can't just keep this up forever. You've got to start doing something to get the support. Even our parents kind of say that. you know maybe mom doesn't ever switch to that maybe she you know but dad kind of like does that partly to get us to adopt the point of view of society so we can go out there and suffer and get and practice patience and get enlightened but the perspective you give is a normal him perspective and it is for this perspective based on the delusion that you're independent of for example me and the people sitting to your right, left, and in front of you. Now, there's nobody sitting directly behind you, but that empty space is supporting you, too. Everything supports you. That's the enlightened view. Some things support me is the deluded point of view. But basically, even the things that support me are separate from me, and that's a temporary support.

[49:23]

I can't depend on it. You cannot depend on anything separate from you. So that's a dangerous world. That's the world of birth and death, which is very uncomfortable and frightening. This entering Buddha's way means you enter into facing the facts, listening to the Dharma, and the Dharma says, now are you ready? You want to enter the womb of renunciation? You want to enter the womb of the place where you'll be willing to let go of control and switch to love. If you want to do it, what you do is you be who you are, you sit where you are, you see how it feels, you practice patience with it, and the more you practice patience with the situation of feeling threatened, unsafe, and in danger, feeling unsupported by most living beings, the more you sit in that situation, the more you're going to want to let go of that point of view. The more you sit in a situation and see that that point of view is your problem plus the attachments which you do based on that point of view aggravate the problem.

[50:31]

You're basically anxious because you feel separate. Then you try to do things and grab things to protect yourself from the consequences of that. When you see all that, you're going to want to let go of it. And the more you want to let go of it, the closer you get to realize that what you really are is something that has already let go of that. Because what you really are is somebody who's not that way. You're not independent. That's just a perception we have. You are an interdependent being and everybody's supporting you. Now, it would be going too fast to pretend as though you understood that and say, well, since I'm interdependent with Margaret, I'll just put my finger in her ear. Yeah. And then Margaret says, no, no, no, that's too advanced for you. You don't really understand what it means to be interdependent with me. What it means to be interdependent with me is you say, Margaret, I'd like to put my finger in your ear. What do you think? Margaret says, well, I don't think so. Not now.

[51:33]

Later, maybe, but not now. And then you say, well, that's kind of a neat little example of interdependence. That worked out pretty well. Now, maybe even if you bring the topic up with her, that would be too much. So maybe you say, I'd like to talk to you about something, about my understanding of interdependence. And it's kind of shocking. Are you up for it? You might want to eat. So interdependence doesn't mean the other person isn't there. they're there it's just that they're your life so you want to talk to your life right say well life how am I you know how's it going did you say when you're feeling dependent on other people yes yes rather than patience, it's exhaustion that makes you not want to repeat that, you know, because it's happening time and time again.

[52:39]

Okay, there's two parts of what you said. One is that you're feeling dependent. You feel dependent. When you feel dependent on somebody. Okay. Now, first of all, I'd like to just say that feeling dependent is an accurate perception. That's a little bit of enlightenment, okay, when you feel dependent. Now, then you said being disappointed. Okay. Now that's a little bit different. Feeling dependent is one thing and expecting something is another. The funny thing is that when you, if you feel dependent and you actually understand that how you're dependent on other people, you don't expect things. I'll say that again. It's kind of a funny thing to say, but I mean it. When you really understand how you're dependent on people, you don't expect something. You just appreciate what you've got by their gift to you. You don't expect something. You don't get disappointed when you understand how dependent you are on people.

[53:40]

So somebody gives you a gift. You realize that you're getting this gift because you depend on them and other people. You don't say, well, this isn't enough. I mean, that's your feeling. Now, you may say this isn't enough, because that may be something you give back to them. But they're also dependent on you. When you understand how dependent you are on other people, you understand how dependent they are on you. And when you understand how dependent they are on you, you don't get into disappointment. with yourself or with them. When you fully understand interdependence, you don't get disappointed. But understanding dependence is a start. When you understand that you depend on other people, that's a start towards understanding interdependence. The next step would be to start realizing how they're dependent on you. Everybody in the universe needs you, and you need everybody. Now, if you start getting exhausted or disappointed, that's a signal to you to practice patience with that and study that.

[54:50]

The disappointment is a manifestation of something. In other words, it's a manifestation of how you understood what happened. According to your understanding, this was a disappointment. The disappointment depends on your evaluations. There's one style of life is I'm disappointed. Another style of life is I'm great. The disappointment, the feeling of disappointment and exhaustion come from a certain kind of understanding of what's going on. If you're dying of thirst and I give you a glass of water, you may interpret that as a great gift. But if you're expecting a bottle of champagne and I give you a glass of water, you may think this is a big mistake. In both cases, it's your interpretation. But when you understand interdependence, your understanding is such that you're grateful for everything that happens in your life.

[55:52]

When you understand interdependence, everything that comes to you is the Buddha Dharma, is the enlightened truth, everything. When you feel disappointed, that means you think some things are the Buddha's teaching to you and some things aren't. So one instruction is about this, one instruction about how to practice renunciation in addition to things I said before is, when things come to you, give up control, which means give up the illusion of control, and understand that everything that comes to you is the Buddha's teaching. and that there are no objects out there. This is the Buddhist teaching which is not out there, but it's coming in the form of, it's coming to you. If you feel disappointed in the Buddhist teaching, that's because you don't think this is Buddhist teaching, or it's because you don't like Buddha anymore, because Buddha is teaching you this way.

[56:59]

Either way. So if you're like, I'm grateful for any teaching Buddha gives me, then everything that comes to you is Buddha's teaching. If you get exhausted and disappointed, that means you don't really feel that way. Yes. No expectations and patience, right. But again, don't pretend that you have no expectations ahead of having no expectations. Try to develop no expectations. But trying to develop no expectations means if you do have an expectation, that's something which is Buddhadharma too. Namely, I notice I have an expectation. That's coming up. So that's Buddhadharma. It's also Buddhadharma if I have expectations that this, then because I have expectations, I feel happy when this happens and miserable when that happens. Buddhadharma is you're learning how things work.

[58:05]

Buddhadharma is what's coming at you all the time. What comes at you sometimes and not other times, that's not Buddhadharma. Like you're learning from the situation, you're studying, you're saying, what's going on? Then you're relating to what's happening like it's the Buddha Dharma. When you say this is a mistake, then you say this is not Buddha Dharma. So at that point, your study is stopped. You're back into control. Say, okay, she's Buddha Dharma, he's Buddha Dharma, but she's not Buddha Dharma. In other words, she goes along with my expectation, he goes along with my expectation, she doesn't, so she's not and they are. No. Everything is. But that's tough, isn't it, the way Buddhadharma comes? Snarling faces, insults, pain, disappointment, exhaustion. So you are exhausted.

[59:06]

There's some reason for that. Some teachings come into you. How come you're exhausted? Well, because I did this, this, and this to get this, and I didn't get it. There it is. You see it. That's the truth. That's how it works. Anything else? Yes, yes, yes? Rani? Yeah? How would you be able to check that you're not... Many times I think that I'm doing beauty. Yes? Yeah. Well, maybe you have to connect to your giving. This giving feeling, which is good. You have to bring a little bit more, what do you call it, mindfulness to it. You just have to say, well, I love to give, but I have to be more careful and check out this impulse a little bit more before I give next time to make sure that I don't have any expectations.

[60:35]

So maybe your giving thing is good, but maybe you need to carry a little expectation question mark thing with you in your purse. I write expectation question mark on your purse. So as you reach for the money, which is good, say, do I expect anything coming back from this? And if so, I would say just put the money back in the purse and just sit there and say to the person, just a minute, I've got to let go of my expectation before I give this to you. Just a second. It won't take me a few minutes. Don't worry. Okay, now. Okay, there's the expectation. Okay, let go of the expectation. Okay, now I want to give this to you, but wait a second, one more thing. I got to check now. Because if I let go of my expectation, I should even feel more happy about giving this to you than before. You feel more happy to give with no expectations than with it. You say, yeah, I feel even better about giving with not even getting anything back.

[61:37]

Then give it and see if that was right. See if there's any after effects or resentment. So I would just put a little bit more effort into my giving. Give more to the giving than just the giving. Give mindfulness and carefulness to the giving so that you don't regret it and so that it's more joyful. Okay? Does that make sense? Yeah, include yourself. Yeah. Yeah, include yourself. Yeah. Well, you know, I hate to be strict with you. I mean, I don't hate to, but I'm going to be strict now, okay? Can I be strict?

[62:38]

You say, I know they did me wrong, okay? That's not, that's not the, that's the attitude of this is not Buddhadharma what they did. What? They may have done wrong, but they didn't do you any wrong. For themselves they may have done wrong, but they don't do you wrong. You can still ask someone to give you something, even though they didn't do you wrong. If someone runs over your toe, you can say, would you please pay for my doctor bills to fix my toe? Not that they did wrong, but this seems like it would be reasonable for me to ask you to help since you were part of this thing, how this happened. And these things happened and you were part of it, seemed to me you were part of it, so I asked something of you.

[63:41]

I wasn't done wrong. I'm alive. I'm happy. I just need some help here. If they say no, well, maybe you want to say more about it. Because for you to help them give you what you need, for you to help them realize that they need to help you, that's helping them. It's good for them to realize a way to help you. You're helping them to do that. But it's good to do it without a sense of coercion or saying that they're bad people. Because actually, I'm saying that they're supporting your life. And you're asking them to support you in a particular way, which supports them in a particular way. It's reasonable to ask people for things. It's reasonable to ask for support. Sometimes people give you support without your asking. Fine. Other times, part of the thing is what you need to give them is a request.

[64:45]

There's various, you know, jokes about that, right? People praying to God, you know, but they don't do their part. You know those jokes? You get gifts, but sometimes you have to ask for them as part of the deal. But it's not because you asked that you got the gift. It's just, you know, you give the gift an address. So I think that you should definitely include yourself in the process because you are included in the process. And you should help people give you what you want them to give you. But not just because they did something wrong or right, but just because you need something. And it would be good if they gave it to you. Chris? I was wondering if you could talk more about pronouncing mistakes.

[65:46]

But it's now, it's still past 9.15, so anybody who wants to come up here afterwards and hear about renouncing states of mind, why don't you come up and do that, okay? So I don't want to keep you too late, so anybody who has more questions, they can come up here afterwards, okay? So we can talk a little bit about renunciation next time if you want, but I'm going to move, otherwise I'll move on to the Bodhisattva vow, the vow of the Buddha trainee. Good night.

[66:20]

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