Oh, another exercise to help sit cross-legged. If you sit cross-legged, maybe especially in full lotus and you sit for quite a while, sometimes you get a burning sensation in your hips, hip, buttocks area. And so there's quite a few exercises to stretch this area, but one kind of simple one that works pretty well for most people. Some people are so flexible this doesn't even do anything for them, but just to start with something safe, and some of you might have to stand up to see this. Lie down on your back, and you can have your head propped up or not, and then put your Kind of cross your legs like this.

[01:02]

And keep this, put the ankle of the one leg on the little bit below the knee on the thigh of the other. And not like this, but kind of flat. Is that clear? And there's a hole here. Reach through the hole and get a hold of the shin and pull it forward. And some of you will feel a stretch right across here. So stretch the buttock along the side of the hip. Some of you, that won't be enough, so you can reach up in front and pull it down farther. And most people, if they bring it down all the way to their chest, they'll feel something. But again, a nice stretch. A more radical one, which I'm not particularly loose this way, but I can do this one, is to go like this and then lean down like this.

[02:14]

And this, for me, is very nice. I don't know if you can do this, but you can work up to this. And then lunges, kind of the same thing, except they stretch the front too. Is that clear, that one? So that one, almost everybody can reach through that little hole and pull their leg a little ways and get a little stretch. And then if you're more flexible, up in front, and if you're more flexible, do the second one. Okay? Okay? So there's two more weeks after this week, right? So that's two more exercises. So by way of warm-up, review, and kind of like to tune into the vision of precept practice, okay, I have this diagram, the circle of the practice of the precepts.

[03:28]

So let's say you start at the point of... you start with the Bodhisattva precepts, you could start there. You could also start, instead of at the Bodhisattva precepts, you could start over at that place where it says DCA. And by DCA, that also on your chart says Bodhi there, doesn't it? It does, right? Do you know what I mean? Are you familiar with this chart? Who isn't? Raise your hand. Okay, so here's the chart. So part of the chart says, up at the top it says bodhisattva precepts, all right, 16 bodhisattva precepts or 16 precepts of enlightening relationships. You can start there, but you can also start, if you want to, at bodhi, enlightenment, all right? That's when you understand... the Buddha's teaching of dependent core arising, you understand the truth of interdependence.

[04:36]

You can start there. But if you don't feel like you've achieved complete enlightenment, you can start with the Bodhisattva precepts instead. Does that make sense? You can start any place on this chart, but be realistic. And everybody who wants to start with the Bodhisattva precepts can start there. Even a great enlightened being could start with the Bodhisattva precepts, even though they're also in other parts of the chart simultaneously. We all, if we want to, can start here with the Bodhisattva precepts. All right? Now, by receiving the Bodhisattva precepts and practicing them, we start to move around the circle. So we start to move, through practicing the Bodhisattva precepts, we start to move into a meditative way of being. Because you can't practice them, really, unless you're meditating. You can't practice them unless you're mindful of what you're doing.

[05:42]

These precepts aren't going to be practiced sort of, what do you call it, absentee, by absentee ballot. You have to actually like be there in your body and mind and checking out what you're doing. And you got to check out what your intention is, where you want to be, how you want to live. Got to look inside and see what's happening, right? That's called meditation. And there's various kinds of meditation, but meditation on the precepts will not only be meditation, but it'll be meditation which will bring you into an upright, balanced, flexible, honest, you know, true way of being with yourself. Then with the aid of the precepts and now entering into a state of mind which is supported by the precepts and which realizes the precepts pretty well, your eyes open, your heart opens, your mind opens to the truth.

[06:49]

And the truth fills you and you fill the truth, you wake up. Then once you wake up, naturally, Once you see how you're connected to everybody and how you support everybody and how everybody supports you, how you're nothing other than all living beings, naturally you feel compassion for anybody who hasn't yet realized that they're connected to you and that they're connected to everybody else because you see them suffering because of ignoring that truth. So you naturally want them to be free of their suffering and you want to help them enter the process of enlightenment, of enlightening themselves. You feel that compassion, so then you want to show them any way you can, encourage them or show them and help them practice the Bodhisattva precepts so they can enter the way too. Okay, that's a process. And someone put a little note here and says, can you practice Zen and still be an activist?

[08:00]

Well, it depends on what kind of activist you want to be. You can't be, you know, a mass murder activist. But if what you mean by activist is, if by activist you mean can you teach people a way of life which is compassion, Can you live a life of encouraging people to not kill, not steal, not lie, and so on? Can you encourage people to practice good, to avoid unwholesome behavior and to live for the welfare of others? Can you do that and practice Zen? That is practicing Zen. Can you do that actively? That is the practice of Zen. To actively live your life, to help people practice these precepts, that kind of activity you can be and be practicing Zen. That is the practice of Zen. Now, if anybody wants to know about any other kind of activists, let me know.

[09:04]

We'll just check out this little card. And we'll see if that activity satisfies these precepts. If it does, you can do that activity and practice Zen, because practicing these precepts is practicing Zen. Any activity that is in accord with these precepts is practicing Zen. But even some practice that looks like Zen, you know, like being a good little Zen monk, having a nice shave, nice haircut, nice little outfit, Be in a Zen temple, you know. Have a little science seat. People calling you, you know, Your Highness. Anyway, all that nice stuff of looking like you're practicing Zen. If you don't follow these precepts, you're not practicing Zen. If these precepts aren't your life, you're not practicing Zen. If you're trying to practice precepts and you're failing, you're trying to practice Zen. But failing. Failing. It doesn't count, you know, if you try and don't do it, it doesn't, you still count, you know, you didn't do it.

[10:12]

But if you confess that you screwed up and didn't practice Zen, that's practicing Zen. Because then you're practicing the precepts again because you're telling the truth. When you screw up and you say, I screwed up, you're practicing the precepts. That's practicing Zen. But screwing up is not practicing Zen. That's screwing up. However, Fact, when you're screwing up, the fact of you screwing up, that's truth. And that's what I was talking about last week. So last week I talked about the first Bodhisattva precept, which is taking refuge in Buddha. So the first Bodhisattva precept is to return to enlightenment, is to jump right across the chart to enlightenment. But, you know, you may not be able to jump right away. You may have to sort of like learn how to take refuge in such a way that you really do take refuge.

[11:17]

In other words, you return to the source of your life, the true source of your life. You return to what your life really is. You return to your life in a true, real, liberating reality. That's taking refuge in Buddha. And when you're at the source of your life, the precepts naturally blossom out of you. All the other precepts will come. And one of the ways to check, if you think you've returned to Buddha, if you think you're taking refuge in Buddha, if you think you've returned to your actual, what you actually are, which is Buddha, if you think you're there, Then watch your behavior and see, does it accord with the other precepts? And if it does, great. Then you're confirmed that you have taken refuge in Buddha. Taking refuge in Buddha is the source of all the other ones.

[12:19]

So when you really do that, the other ones are naturally coming out of yourself. So again, if you want to be an activist and practice Zen, you have to return to enlightenment. You have to practice enlightened activism. Tonight I thought I might talk about some individual precepts, but before I did that I wanted to know if you had this kind of like, any questions about the kind of like basic vision of the whole thing. Janelle? I'm the one with the question on the stage, and I feel, personally, and it's something hard to articulate just because I'm kind of confused about it, but we all talk about Yes. [...] not want to do something about that.

[13:43]

Yes. When I was active, I meant more political things. Well, what would you like to do? Well, I'd like to reform the mental health system. Well, go right ahead. That's fine. Reform the mental health system. But when you do it, try to follow these... Not this one. Try to follow both this and this. So it's perfectly good to try to reform the mental health system. But when you do it, follow these precepts, that's all. Then you'll be practicing Zen while you're trying to reform the mental health system. But if you try to reform the mental health system, and in order to do it, you lie, or you talk about others in such a way as to slander them, or if you kill... Like some people want to reform the medical establishment, right? Yes.

[14:45]

And the way they do it is they bomb clinics. That's the way they reform the health care system. Well, it's nice that they want to reform it, but can they do it without killing anybody? That would be one of the first things. Can they do it without slandering the health? I relate to that kind of person. Pardon? Right. Well, you have to, though. You have to. You got to. If you want to practice these precepts, you have to. Well, that's fine. You can go ahead and try to practice. You try to reform the system without practicing. That's fine. And then hopefully Buddha will come and help you. Hopefully there'll be a Buddha working right next to you to help you out. I hope so. So it's nice that you... It's very difficult, but still, you've got to do it.

[15:46]

Judgmental, okay, so that's one of the precepts we can deal with maybe tonight, this business about being critical or judgmental, okay? So we can work on that one tonight maybe, all right? But before we do that, do you have any kind of problem with the overall picture that I just painted? What do I mean by that? Dependent co-arising is the basic teaching of the Buddha. Okay? In other words, the Buddha explains that everything that happens, the Buddha saw actually, that everything that happens depends on conditions. Okay? That there's nothing existing by itself. There's nothing like that. When you can see that you, for example, most importantly you, do not exist independently of all us, then you won't apprehend yourself as an isolated, substantial reality. Then you'll be, first of all, free of anxiety.

[16:51]

You'll be free of greed, hate and delusion. And also, you'll realize that working for our welfare is really your happiness. But I wrote DCA on there, but it means to actually, not just, that's, the pentacle arising, DCA, is going on all the time, the Buddha saw. And actually, everybody knows that, right? We all know that we're working together and everything creates us and all that, but we don't think, we don't believe it. We know it. We know it's true. But deep down, we don't think so. Deep down we think, We're independent. And we're deeply, if you excuse the expression, genetically programmed to think that. So Buddhism is a kind of medicine for this basic delusion that we see ourselves as separate and we make that into a reality. So understanding independent co-arising frees us from our basic delusion that we're not completely living the same life together.

[17:56]

And understanding that is, understanding that, seeing the truth of that is called unsurpassed enlightenment. And part of what you see then is you also understand in that process what it's like if you don't see it. So you also see that people don't understand that sometimes and because you see it and you can see that they're suffering because they don't, you want them to see it. So once you see it, your main thing is you want to help other people see it. You may also want to help them in other ways, like you may want to reform the health care system. But the way you want to reform it is not just reform it, but you actually would like to have nobody even using it anymore. You'd like to basically, first of all, learn how to take care of people who are mentally ill, but eventually have everyone finally become enlightened. You really want that because you really do. You want them to have the best. Not just to be able to, like, get up and get through the day without killing anybody or without killing themselves or, you know, I don't know what, causing some other kind of harm.

[19:10]

You'd like them to get through the day very happily and peacefully and, you know, blissfully. You actually want that for people. And if you can see interdependence, you see it's possible. You see everybody has that ability if they would just study. And one of the ways to study, one of the main ways to study is meditate on these precepts. And again, the first one is return to Buddha, which means return to how you are right now. And don't confuse, don't think that the way you are is Buddha, but the fact of you being the way you are is Buddha. And what you really are is actually an interdependent thing. You are realizing the Buddha's truth always.

[20:11]

If you could see it, if you would look at yourself in this upright, balanced, patient, loving, generous, flexible, harmonious way, you'd see that. Precepts help you look that way. And the first precept is to try to look at your source. And the other precepts kind of like are like help you like develop the right attitude of how to look. In other words, you can't really see what's going on. You can't really see what's going on when you're distracted by killing things. You know, you can't really see what a bug's like when you're killing it. You've got to move your finger away and look at it. When your finger's on top of it, you can't really see what the bug's like. You can't really see what people are like when you're pushing them around. You can see what they're like, though, when you're dancing with them. You can learn about them. And you learn about yourself, too.

[21:13]

So you study yourself and others through interacting lovingly. That's how you can see. You can't really see what's going on when you're stealing. As a matter of fact, stealing is just an affirmation of that you don't understand what's going on. So when you stop stealing, you start to understand, and so on. So gradually, through practicing the precepts, we start to see more and more clearly that we're interdependent. The less we kill other beings, the more we realize that we're interdependent. That's why sometimes we want to kill them is because we're so interdependent, right? Everything you do bugs me. I wish I could just turn you off. We're so related. Get me out of here. Or we're so related, come here, come here. Let me hold on to you because you don't go away.

[22:14]

One or the other. Or, geez, I don't know what to do, whether to get rid of you or hold on to you. This is so painful. We're so related. But you don't quite see it when you're veering off in those ways. You've got to drop the greed, the hate, and the confusion and just really face this person. Face yourself and face others. And these precepts show you how to really have a good relationship. Don't I? Okay, yes? Well, I was just thinking lately, it's kind of strange, but I think about these precepts a lot lately. Good. One of the things that I encounter many times during my daytime around here is homeless people and people who are begging and all that. Yes. And I've been kind of interested at, you know, my different reactions to these people, especially, like, when I'm in a hurry or they're looking at my face or, you know, whatever else.

[23:19]

And, you know, I have different thoughts, like, you know, at first, you know, I'll think, oh, I want to give something to them to help them. And I think, well, maybe that's not such a great idea because that just sort of... you know, getting them money for drugs or something like that. Uh-huh. I mean, I don't know. Right, we don't know. Or I'll think, you know, oh, you know, why don't I just try to find somebody to help them? Or if they're sitting there with their children, you know, a little child or something like that, you know, then I'll feel bad for the child. I don't know, it's like I try to look at them and say hello. Yeah, right. I don't really know. I'm having to think about how to practice the precepts with, you know, in situations like that. Well, that's a good one, right? That we all, almost all of us run into that. So why don't we just have that be a homework assignment? Think about some things you could do that would be kind of like appropriate for those situations. I have some ideas myself, but I won't say them right now. How about that? And next week, people can come back and suggest some things that they think would be helpful.

[24:24]

And it doesn't mean that what he thinks is helpful is what you would think is helpful. But everybody might be able to think of something as helpful, even though it might be different from some of the other people. Like some people might not want to give money, and some people might want to give money, but they might want to give something else, right? So then how would you organize your life so that you could give what you... Giving is definitely in, you know. These precepts are all about giving, right? So the question is, what's the appropriate gift? It's not appropriate to give people things that they'll harm themselves with, right? You don't give children little kids matches even though they ask for them. You don't give people who don't know how to drive cars keys to the car, or alcoholics or people who are on drugs and alcohol, you don't give them the keys to the car, even though they asked for them. That's not an appropriate gift. It's not generous. It's kind of just confused. But some people you do give the key car keys to. and so on.

[25:25]

So there is a gift appropriate in almost all situations. There is a gift. So what would the gift be and how do we organize our life so we'll be ready to give the gift? So think about that, in particular in relationship to people who are homeless or basically homeless or poor people on the street. They might have a home, but they still might be begging, right? Let's just think about that and everybody maybe bring some ideas about how to relate to that. And not just things you might do, but also I find that if I'm not organized and ready, I sometimes want to give something, but I don't have anything. Like maybe I don't feel like giving $20. That's all I've got. They say spare change and all I've got is $20. Maybe I don't feel like $20, but I might feel like... a dollar or 50 cents. So then you've got to have the money ready. You've got to have, you know, the change. Or maybe you... Well, maybe I, you know... I'm starting to tell the answer.

[26:29]

So why don't you think about it, and next week we can hear some ideas about how to respond to that particular situation. Giving is good, but what's the appropriate gift, okay? All right? I'd like to go to some precepts that are related to Janelle's question. Okay? But if there's some other questions about the general overall picture of how I'm talking about how the precepts work with enlightenment and compassion and how enlightenment and compassion are the source of the precepts. So the precepts take you to enlightenment and compassion arises from enlightenment. And then compassion expresses itself through the precepts, that basic idea. And it's also possible to have compassion prior to enlightenment. Okay? I think many people are actually compassionate even though they don't yet understand the highest truth, the deepest truth.

[27:31]

It's just that when you understand the deepest truth, your compassion is like much more... It's deeper. It's wider. and you can act on it more effectively. Because you're not helping others anymore. When you're first practicing compassion, you think others are not you. And that kind of compassion tires us out. It's still good to do it, but you get tired helping others. Because you kind of lose, when you help them, you kind of lose something. Because you think they're outside you, or gain something. But when you understand your independence, you don't help others anymore. You help your true self. Other people are your true self. So then you don't get tired out. That's kind of basic overall picture, right? So that's great compassion. And before you understand reality, you can have

[28:35]

you know, what's called a kind of mundane compassion, where you still kind of think other people aren't you, but you still empathize for them, you still care about them, you still want them to be happy, you still want to help them, and it still hurts you that they're suffering. But you also, you know, don't understand yet your real relationship. So it's not really great compassion. So no more overall questions or general questions at this time? Yes? Is this a general overall question? It sounds like a specific one. Why don't you save it, then, to maybe come up... I'd like to go to something... I'd like to come do some specific thing, but not several different things.

[29:41]

So there's a precept here called... Well, the ones about speech, okay, are particularly relevant to what Janelle's talking about, and that is not slandering and not praising self at the expense of others. Okay, not slandering. Another way that sometimes is put is, you know, basically not to, sometimes they say not to criticize people in the community. And the intention there is that you don't speak about others in such a way as to undermine them. So if your intention, like if I would criticize one or more Lindas, with the intention of making Michael think less of them, if that would be my intention, well, that's violating a precept.

[30:42]

In other words, we should not try to make other people respect someone less. We should not do something which will make Michael respect Linda less or feel more separated from Linda than he already feels. We should speak in such a way as to make people feel closer together and more united and more respectful of each other. That's the point. But to speak with the intention of, I like, undermining someone's respect for someone else, that goes against its precepts. So, for example, if you saw someone doing something inappropriate or harmful, and then maybe some health care professional doing something harmful or inappropriate or unskillful, then to tell somebody else in their workplace or something about them with the intention of making this other person think badly of them and respect them less, that would go against his perception.

[31:51]

So then you might say, well, what do I do if I see someone not doing their job improperly? You know, that's not okay, is it, just to sort of let them do it improperly or endanger someone else's life? Like some mental health care workers who aren't taking care of their clients, we shouldn't just like let that go, right? We should help the situation, try to like make an effort so that they'll do their job better, right? So then what we sometimes think is the way to do that, which one of the easiest things for us to think to do is to think of it in such a way as to make other people think badly of them. This comes very naturally to us. And then maybe they'll get fired. Which you might think, well, at least they're not harming anybody anymore. But meantime, you've caused a rift among beings. Now people think less of this person. And this person's lost a job. Plus you still haven't necessarily helped the situation at all.

[32:54]

it is possible yourself to go to that very person who you feel is being unskillful and to talk to them in a loving and kind way about your difficulty with the way they're doing their job but you're not you're not doing that to make someone else to respect them less because you're talking directly to the person you're not telling somebody else something wrong with them to make them think less of the person you're talking to the person you're exhorting the person to drop their unskillful or whatever, unkind, harmful behavior. You're trying to get them to look at what they're doing and reform their ways. But you do it not by trying to make other people think less of them. And also, you do it from the point of view of you respecting them. You don't respect exactly

[33:58]

their unskillfulness. You just recognize their unskillfulness as something you think is unskillful. But you respect the person. You respect the person. You want to help this person do a good job. Now, you can remove them from their position. And sometimes people should be removed from their position because they're not capable of performing certain jobs. But then where are you going to put them? They should be moved to a position where they can perform well then, not just thrown on the street because what are they going to do there? There's nobody that can be thrown out of this enlightenment business. You can't get rid of people. There's no place that they can go where they don't need compassion and education. Sometimes a person can be educated right in the same position, right in the same job they have.

[35:00]

Other times they should actually do a different job because they're not skillful enough to do the job which they've been doing. What they need is more education. Or maybe not more education, but sometimes they know how to do it, but they kind of know the skill basically, but maybe they're lazy. And maybe they're lazy because they don't feel like anybody respects them. And they don't respect themselves. So they don't do their best, even though they know how to do it. But if you walk up to them and you respect them, you really respect them and they see that respect. This inspires them. Maybe, let's say. And then you point out the mistake or the error or the unskillfulness, but they're inspired by you. quote, criticism or you're indicating the problem. Okay? So how are you doing, Janelle? I'm with you.

[36:02]

Okay? So if you see some problem, you can approach it that way. But basically, the basic thing is when you see a problem and you walk over to the person and you speak to him about the problem, but you have disrespect in your eyes or your heart. Okay? Okay, Janelle? If you really disrespect the person, the person often thinks that you're crazy. You know what I mean? Do you follow that, Janelle? Yeah. Most people think that people who disrespect them are crazy, and you know what? They're right. Anybody who disrespects you is kind of crazy. Do you have any disagreement with that? Huh? So if you walk up to somebody who's doing something whatever way, like a kid, you know, hitting a baseball, you know, little boy, little girl hitting a baseball, and they're not very skillful, let's say, and you walk up to them and you look at them like you're worthless, you know, incompetent baseball player.

[37:11]

You know, here you are, you're eight years old and you still can't hit the ball out of the park. You're just, you know, I'm so, you know, blah, blah. Well, the kid looks up at you like, okay, insane adult. Now, how am I going to protect myself from this insane person? You know, basically. You're insane. You are insane. If you talk to a child like that, you're insane, first of all. Second of all, they kind of know it. And also, they're afraid because you're a big insane person. Or even if you're not big, you're like, you know, older than them and have more power or authority. So they've got a powerful, big, adult insanity case here. So they're not listening to what you're talking about. They're not listening to baseball. They're kind of like, how am I going to survive this attack? So they are paying attention, but basically they're not learning anything except how to deal with a lunatic. On the other hand, if you walk up to them, even if they're no good at baseball, in the sense that maybe they're never going to hit a ball, but you look at them and you really respect them. You think, no, this kid, I really respect this kid.

[38:15]

I don't know if this kid is going to be a professional baseball player, but I really respect this kid. And right away, kind of, part of them knows that they're dealing with a sane person. Not only a sane person, but a sane person that likes them and appreciates them. They're kind of like, oh, well, this kind of safe situation. So, like, what do they have to say? Maybe they have something intelligent to say. Because they're not only sane, but they're intelligent because they have the intelligence to see that I'm a worthwhile person. So if you approach people who aren't skillful with that attitude, you can ask them, would you like to hear about, you know, how to hit a baseball or how to, you know, put a bandaid on or how to take care of mentally ill people. They would like to hear from people that respect them. Those are the people they want to hear from. So we do it. It is good to exhort people. and to relate to people who are doing things unskillfully, but what has to be done with respect.

[39:19]

And it should never be done to other people in such a way that the other people don't respect them. It can be done to other people in a way that the other people will also help you take care of this person and support this person, but never with the intention to undermine or to create disrespect and disunity. That never is helpful. You can always take care of even the most dangerous situation without that intention. I say that. Martin? Two things. I ran into a situation today. I was talking to a friend of mine. We started talking about President Clinton, what's going on right now. Yes. And he called him a liar like three or four times, and he was angry. Yes. How would you handle something like that? Well, this is a case where somebody else is criticizing somebody, right? Right. So first thing, first thing you do, this is a tough one, maybe not that one, but how about an easier one would be like, you know, I was in a sauna the other day, you know, and some guy in the sauna was talking about, what was it, he was like, he was in his truck and a bus driver kind of cut him off.

[40:33]

and the bus driver was a black man, and this guy started to talk about black people. Okay? So, you know, what do I do? This guy's, like, acting like a total lunatic, right? The guy who's in the sauna with me is talking like a lunatic. How do I respect him? How do I respect this guy? He's totally nuts. He's, like, in the sauna, like, ready to kill somebody, you know? I mean, like, First of all, this thing about this black guy, that's one thing, but he's like, you know, if somebody would like, if I would say, he'd kill me. If a black person walked into the room, he might, like, attack him. He was, like, totally gone nuts just thinking about this thing. So how do you relate to this person? Well, here I am sitting, like, I think, I can't say anything to this guy unless I respect him.

[41:34]

I've got to somehow respect him. How can I come at him? And, you know, I couldn't figure out a way to do anything. I didn't, like, say, oh, yeah, I didn't do that kind of stuff. But I did sort of sit there and I kind of looked at the floor, you know, and I was looking for some opportunity, like, to break into the thing in such a way, you know, I couldn't quite see it, you know. A lot of times what you can do if the person's not totally nuts, but just minor crazy, is what I usually say is I say, I feel uncomfortable with you talking this way. This guy was so frothing that I hardly could even say, you know, I feel uncomfortable this way. But I'm, you know, this is kind of like this thing about you see somebody and they're asking for money and you don't have the money ready. Next time. Okay, so the next time I see him, and since that time I've been acting kind of friendly towards him. Next time he does something like that, and he also, I've heard him do it not just about black people, but he does it about, well, he, this guy hates almost everybody.

[42:41]

That pushes him slightly the wrong way, you know. The next time he does something like that, you know, I think maybe I could say, you know, I could learn his name, you know, and say, I'm calling by name and say, you know, you know, I really, you know, I kind of, I want to say this really respectfully because I do respect you, you know. In the meantime, I'm trying to learn something about him that I could respect. Because when he's doing that, it's hard to see anything. You have to learn more. All you know about this person is that insane side. You can't maybe see anything. So since that time, I've given him a chance to be friendly. So next time he does it, maybe I'll be there to say, you know, I really feel uncomfortable when you talk that way. You know? I just... It really... It physically hurts me when you talk like that. And maybe I can... And maybe he'll flare up and come at me. So I'll also be ready for that. You know? Maybe I'll have a few other friends with me. You know?

[43:44]

Bunch of nude men there, you know? You know? And the same thing happens in the locker room. Some of the ways men... Some of these guys talk about women. The way men... I don't know how the women talk about the men. I have some idea because my wife is in the next, you know, she's in the next locker room, in the women's locker room, and she tells me about what the women talk about. And what the women talk about is so interesting compared to what the men talk about. Generally speaking, I mean, they talk about their travels, shopping, their kids, what they eat, what they cook, you know. They talk about that kind of stuff. The men talk about sports and business, and they swear about, and they attack Clinton. They never say anything good about any politicians ever. They just bitch about politicians, and they say these unbelievably childish things about women. I have to sit here and listen to that stuff.

[44:46]

And occasionally, if there's not too many of them in there, sometimes when they see me, they ask me about Buddhism and Green Gulch and stuff like that. Huh? What? Cars. They don't talk about cars, no. This particular sauna. But this is a big club. It has 800 members, you know, so I see a lot of people there, you know. One way they talk about women that's okay is the women in the club are really good athletes and they really do respect the women for their athletic. They sometimes do say a good thing about the women. They say, boy, she's really got it. She's a good swimmer. They do speak respect. When a woman really shows them that they can swim faster than they do, they do bow to that. But then anything in this other realm, you know, the usual realm, it's just really like unbelievably childish. You can't believe it. Now, maybe the women talk that way about the men, too.

[45:50]

I don't hear about it, but I don't know if they do. It doesn't seem like they do. They don't have this. Maybe they talk about how childish the men are. I don't know. So you have to find some way to be respectful of this guy because if you just come back at him, then you violate the next precept too, right? Which is that you think, here I am. I don't go around calling people who I don't even know the facts. I call them a liar and stuff. I don't talk that way. So you talk down to the person. You're kind of praising yourself and putting him down, even if nobody else is around. You've got to kind of talk. It's best to talk up to people. least level but generally speaking levels not enough especially if you've got a problem with somebody it's good to go down a little bit and then talk up and that's why practicing the precepts helps you practice the precepts because when you try to practice the precepts you notice how how you know how often it's difficult for you to practice them so you notice your shortcomings quite a bit when you really sincerely try to practice you notice

[46:55]

Your shortcomings. When you notice your shortcomings, that means your eyes are opening. Because we do have shortcomings, don't we? When our eyes open to our own shortcomings, our eyes also open to other people's virtues. Because usually our eyes are shut to our shortcomings and we're totally stoked about other people's problems. So if you practice the precepts, you start to notice your own shortcomings, see this guy's good qualities. And when you see his good qualities, then you can say something to him. You can say, Fred, John, Martin, I really respect you. You do this, this, and this really well. But I really have a problem when you start talking like that. I don't know what to say. It just makes me feel terrible when you're talking like that. I mean, I just want to tell you that. And I wish you wouldn't talk like that around me. Please don't talk to somebody else like that or go in a closet and talk to yourself that way or something. But I don't want to hear it anymore. I don't want to hear you talking that way.

[47:57]

I don't think it's helpful. How would you handle it if you feel someone's trying to undermine you? How do I feel, Ben? You were talking to me and I thought you were trying to undermine me in some way. How about I do it the other way around? Let's say you're talking to me and you're trying to undermine me, okay? What do I do? Number one, what's the first thing I do? Huh? Take refuge in Buddha. Right. So now you're Buddha getting attacked. So how does Buddha see Martin? Huh? With love. With love. And I respect you, too. I see your potential, you know. And now that I'm taking refuge in Buddha and Dharma and Sangha, now I'm thinking, now how can I, I'm feeling pretty good already. It still hurts maybe that you're, especially if you're continuing, I'm still in pain, you know, that you're doing this to me because, like, you're trying to undermine me, but you can't really undermine me.

[48:59]

you can just try to undermine me, but you can't really undermine me to me. But now if you're trying to undermine me to somebody else, that's a different thing. But if you're trying to actually attack me, and I'm practicing the precepts, then I'm trying to work up to respect you. And also, one of the first stories that I heard about Zen monks that attracted me to Buddhism, many of you have heard this before, but anyway, it's just my story, right? It's about this Zen monk who lived in a small fishing village in Japan, and a girl there became pregnant, and she told her parents that this monk was the father. So, you know, he wasn't... In Japan, like in America, you're not supposed to have sex with people that you're not married to and then give them babies. You're not supposed to do that. Kind of looked down on by a lot of people. And if you're a monk, you're not supposed to be having sex with anybody He wasn't even supposed to be married. So they really like, the parents came to him and really like attacked him.

[50:09]

Undermined him, yes, but really severely criticized him. He told me it was a total disgrace to his vocation and so on and so forth. And the guy said, is that so? In other words, is this happening to me? He didn't come, you know, but also when I first heard that, I thought he just said, oh, that's so, you know. But now I think maybe he said, is that so means, well, maybe they're wrong about this thing. I'm not the father of the child, but maybe I am kind of a disgrace. Kind of like, yeah, maybe so. Not maybe so, but is that so you're saying this? Well, I wonder what truth there is in this. Probably some truth to it. probably some truth to anything anyone says against us, probably some reason for it, even though the details are off. A lot of times we get criticized for something that we didn't just do, but we did a few minutes before. No, I didn't, but I did do it yesterday.

[51:13]

So it's kind of related in a way. Sometimes we don't get caught for the thing the way we think we should get caught for the thing. So I think that if I'm criticized, you don't have to say, oh, thank you so much, you know, for criticizing me. You're so sweet. But more like, oh, is this happening? Kind of. He didn't know. He didn't. He just said, is that so? And then they said, when the baby comes, you can take care of it. So when the baby came, they brought him the baby. And he took care of the baby for two years. He got a wet nurse. And he and the wet nurse took care of the baby for two years. Then the girl, the mother, told the parents the truth, who the actual father of the child was. Then they went back to the priest, the monk, and said, we're so sorry, you know. We falsely accused you.

[52:16]

Not only that, but you took care of our granddaughter all this time really well. And you never tried to correct us and defend yourself. They said, you are like the greatest monk in Japan. We're totally awestruck. You make us have total confidence in Buddhism now. You're just a fantastic priest. And he said, is that so? So it wasn't so much that he didn't defend himself that turned me on to Buddhism. It was that When he was insulted, he responded basically the same way as when he was praised, which is the way a Buddha is. You insult a Buddha, it's like someone they love is insulting them. The main thing is someone they love is talking to them. You praise them, it's basically the same thing. Of course it feels more comfortable to be praised than to be insulted. When you insult, your skin kind of crinkles up and your body kind of, you know, your heart kind of like,

[53:21]

This thing happened to your body, you know, when cold spit comes at you. You have a bodily reaction. And when somebody goes up to you and says, oh, you're so wonderful, you're so beautiful, you're so honest, you're such an inspiration, of course you start to relax and you feel differently. But basically your response is the same, namely, what is going on in this world? What is happening? What is this? What is Buddha? What's my true nature right now? That you're taking refuge in Buddha, really. So take refuge in Buddha. Go back to the place where you're connected to this person. So I have to go back where I'm connected to this lunatic. Now he's a lunatic, but he's like on the street having a job, you know, being a contractor lunatic. how do i respect this person this is my challenge right how do i how do i be like a buddha this is my love this is my this is my loving brother not my loving brother but my dear brother who i my life is devoted to him how do i find that heart it's not easy jimmy

[54:38]

Why was the Buddha the best Buddha if he did not defend himself? And we did not have to pull up the impression that Buddha told the truth. The monk? Yeah, the monk. He could have, it would have been fine. Probably some other time he did say that. Probably a few weeks before they came and, you know. Anyway, he could have said, no, I didn't do it. It would have been fine. But I thought this was a better story. Most of us have been falsely accused a few times, right? Mostly the accusations are right, but occasionally we're falsely accused. So we know about that, and you say, no, no, I didn't do that. That's okay. That's not a problem. But he didn't say yes, it's true. He didn't say no, it's not. He just more said, oh, is that so? Sometimes that really is kind of a good answer. I remember one time a friend of mine, we were at a beach one time, we were teenagers, and this guy didn't very often say things like this, but anyway, somebody came up to him and started telling him all this stuff about this guy's sister.

[55:52]

He said, your sister is this, your sister is that. I don't remember whether it was a compliment or an insult or worried or what it was, but this person was just going blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he said, after the person was done, he said, I see. I see. I just thought that was just the perfect thing to say. But sometimes the perfect thing to say is, is that so? And sometimes the perfect thing to say is, no, no, that's not right. But the fact that he said the same thing in both cases Was the second one true and the first one false? Was he a great priest and should they be saying that? I don't know. To me, it wasn't that he was a great priest and then he was a bad priest. The point, what I thought was cool was they had the same answer for both of them. Because we're all going to be like, you know, sometimes accused and praised.

[56:53]

It's going to happen. It's going to happen, isn't it? We're going to be assaulted And rewarded. It's going to happen. Isn't it? I mean, does anybody think that's not going to happen quite a few more times? But what's a way to live that doesn't get pushed around by that? What's a way to live in peace with the fact that these things are going to happen? That's what he showed. And after he was insulted, he still took care of the kid very nicely, no different than if he was appraised. If everybody insults me, does that mean I'm going to stop helping people? Oh, everybody's mean, nobody appreciates me, so I'm going to like, you know, forget them. You know, all these people who don't appreciate me, well, I just hope they can go to hell. That's what people do, right?

[57:57]

Well, that's no good. They'll just come back and they won't then switch over and start praising you. When you do that, they'll get you more. And then if you do it again, they'll do it more. And pretty soon you'll be in hell. But when people insult us, it's an opportunity to do this amazing thing called finding a way to appreciate them. That converts people. So basically the way that I think to... to reform any system is to convert the people in the system to these precepts. That's what I think. And you can be very active in doing that. Loving people is a very intense, highly, it's very demanding to love people. Isn't it? It's very demanding to figure out what that might be. Especially when they're

[58:58]

Well, I say especially when they're being cruel to you, but actually sometimes it's hard to figure out what love is when they're being really nice to you, too. Because sometimes the way you are to people when they're being really nice to you is not necessarily love. Sometimes you start indulging yourself in it. We even sometimes take advantage of people who are being really nice to us. Isn't that incredible that we might do that? When somebody's really being nice to us, we just sort of like... Start using them. Amazing. Rather than, like, go back to Buddha and say, okay, they're praising me, they're being nice to me, but, well, listen, what's really happening here? Well, I'm being nice to myself is what's happening here, which is swell, but, you know, that doesn't mean I'll start exploiting myself. and start being possessive of myself just because myself's being nice for a change.

[60:05]

Was that too ironic or whatever? You're quiet. Lisa? I know you're just kind of being funny, but is it okay to talk about how boring it is to be with men in your club? What did you say? I'm just wondering if it's funny, but you're also being negative about the men in your club. Yes. Is it okay that I call him boring and stupid?

[61:17]

Yeah, I think so. What? Pardon? Well, you don't know who these people are. You don't respect them any less. I'm not trying to make you... My intention was not to make you respect men less. That was not my intention. Did I make you respect them any less by saying that? No, I don't think I did. You all know they do that stuff, right? you're trying to be tolerant of that right the way they talk about women so but maybe you think I violated the precept so what precept did I violate huh well but I wasn't trying to make you think less of them actually my intention was not to create division between but maybe I but maybe I did did I make you feel did I create division between you and those men these unknown men did I Pardon? Pardon?

[62:20]

Even when I talk... Even when I talk about how they appreciate the women swimmers? No? You didn't say that the name was stupid. You said that what men talk about is sometimes a name. Right. If they were actually that stupid, that that's all that they could do, then I would call them stupid men. I would call them insane. When they talk like that, they're kind of insane. So sometimes they're insane. But my intention to tell you that they're insane sometimes was not to make you feel distant from them, but maybe I wasn't being careful. What I was trying to do is share with you my amazement at the difference in quality of conversations between the men and the women's So maybe I was kind of trying to make you proud of being women.

[63:31]

I wasn't really trying to make the men ashamed to be associated with that gender. But the women's conversations are really like... It isn't exactly like I'd like to listen in, because they're actually women's conversations. They're not really the kind of conversations I would have anyway, even though they sound high quality. Because I usually don't talk about shopping. And, I mean, I could go into the men's sauna and start talking about shopping, but I don't. I could talk about... Sometimes we talk about our kids, though, sometimes, but not too often. And we never talk, almost never... Actually, the men do talk about their kids sometimes. They ask, how are your kids? They sometimes say that. But anyway, I think I find the women's conversation high quality, even though I myself don't have those kind of conversations. I think it's interesting that women get together and maybe talk about different ways of knitting. I think that's really a very high level of intelligence conversation.

[64:34]

Men sometimes have conversations like that too, at work anyway, but not in the sauna. Like some men work on very interesting work and they talk to each other about it. So anyway, maybe I did violate the precept of creating some sense of disunity in the world by telling you about these men's, what would they say. And I really appreciate that you could tell me that. Well, I guess the reason I ask the question is because one of the things that I have a lot of difficulty with is how easy it is for people to tell you. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. It is really easy.

[65:36]

It takes less intelligence to criticize people than to praise them, generally speaking. Not only that, but praising them in some ways is more difficult Because sometimes people don't want to hear you praising someone, but a lot of people are very happy to hear you criticize somebody. Because sometimes if you're praising someone, they feel jealous or whatever. So praising is not only difficult to even think of a praising thought, especially somebody you're in competition with, but it's sometimes difficult to tell people because they're in competition with them or whatever. So I think it requires much more skill to praise people. than to criticize them. I mean, literally like IQ, you know. It takes a higher IQ to criticize people. People with very low IQs easily can criticize other people. And they can notice people have lower IQ than them and criticize them. But everybody probably can find somebody with a lower IQ.

[66:39]

A lot of people. Yeah, everybody can, right, except for that one person. But most people have quite a few people who have lower IQs than them, right? And almost everybody, no matter how low their IQ is, can notice somebody who's not as smart as them and criticize them. When I was in sixth grade, there was this one guy in my class. And I don't mean to make you not respect this guy. But this guy was, you know... In most ways, this guy was in sort of that thin part of the bell curve below the middle, the average point. In most things like sports, singing, dancing, math, reading, writing, spelling, he's way down there. And one day we had a spelling test.

[67:41]

And he got a higher score than me. And he walked over to me with his test thing. And he showed it to me and said, I only got 17 wrong. And you got, I don't know, whatever I got, 23 or whatever. He was so happy that he beat me, you know. And he was not a very good speller, but he was able to notice that somebody was worse than him. So, you know, we can all, even the very, very, very, very low intelligence, like probably, you know, a slug can probably tell dumber slugs than them, you know. Hold their little thing up a little higher. But... I think you've got to be really intelligent to start noticing, and not only that, to notice, but to even praise and be happy about and talk about and talk it up, you know, about the people who are doing better than you or who are more skillful than you.

[68:51]

Talk to them, but also even talk to other people about it. That takes real skill, real intelligence. It's practically, you know, oh, it's just like practically being enlightened. It's very close to being enlightened. So when I was praising the women, I was kind of enlightened, wasn't I? And when I was talking about the men, I was being kind of stupid, wasn't I? But now I'm talking about myself, I'm criticizing myself, but I'm not creating division, am I? even though I'm talking about how I didn't do very well. See, so there's a way to do it that when we talk about our own faults to people, they sometimes feel closer to us. Kind of like, oh, you have that problem too and you admit it? Well, hi. Hi there.

[69:52]

Gee, hello. Let's be friends. So I guess that's one of the key things is that To notice other people's good qualities and talk about them is really endearing and enlightened and intelligent. And to talk about, you know, not indulging in it, but just call a spade a spade, you know, noticing my own faults and confessing them in a reasonable way to a reasonable person, to the appropriate person, really does, it makes connection. It demonstrates that we're interconnected. So in Buddhism we have the practice of confessing our own faults, not confessing other people's faults. But if some people do do things that are dangerous, we sometimes bring them up, but we bring them up in order to protect not just other people, but that person. So if someone's violating a rule, like let's say at our temple if somebody's like taking heroin or something between meditation periods,

[70:54]

You know, we have to talk about it. And it happens. It actually has happened that people are taking heroin in the monastery. I'm not kidding. And so we have to go talk to the person, right? And somebody has to turn him in too, you know. Somebody has to say, you know, I think this person is taking some kind of heavy drugs. And then you go talk to him and you say, are you taking the drugs? And they say, yeah. And then we say, well, you got to go to a treatment program, you know. So there's a way to do it that helps people and saves people from damage, and there's a way to do it that undermines our interconnectedness. But anyway, thank you for bringing that up about the way I was talking. Elena? I was going to say, is the crux of the matter your intention? That's the fundamental thing, yes. Yes.

[72:02]

Right. Right. Yes. Sometimes, you know, just now I was thinking, you know, well, I wasn't really trying to make, create division between the genders and make women think, you know, all these millions of men in saunas all over the country. Right. bad-mouthing us and downgrading us. I didn't mean to do that, but maybe if I'm more careful, I look more carefully at what I'm doing, I think, well, I don't mean to create division between men and women, but if I'm more careful, maybe I might not have said it that way. So sometimes you look and you say, well, I don't really want to cause trouble, but if you look more carefully and say, although I don't want to, if I say that, it might. So although, for example, One of my main examples is, I used to know this lady. She's gone. I haven't seen her for several years. And she had the same last name as me.

[73:04]

And she weighed a lot. She was about this big. She weighed like 300 pounds. And she was a friend of mine, kind of like my sister. And we had a nice relationship. Every time I saw her, I always thought, hi, fatty. No, cubby. Cubby? hi tubby i always i always thought that you know and but i never i never said it to her i never said hi tubby because i thought you know that even though i didn't want to hurt her and i was just sort of it was actually affectionate thought i thought if i said it would hurt her So that's a case of where I didn't intend to hurt her, but if I just let that come out, it probably would have. So if you look more carefully, sometimes you see, well, I don't mean to hurt, but that might hurt. You know? Or like you're bigger than somebody, you say, you know, kind of like, oh, I'm just going to give him a little slap in the back, you know?

[74:07]

Well, you don't mean to hurt him, but think more carefully about it. Like, well, this would be like a nice affectionate thing to do, but actually I weigh 200 and she weighs 110. You know? Maybe I shouldn't slap her on the back. Or maybe I should say, would you like me to slap you on the back? And she might say, well, no. No. You can say, hello. That would be fine. Yes? I agree. I'm not an expert on the life of Christ. But I understand that you did bring a lot of division. And you know, cock-like, like you told some people. Right, right. Well, you know, I'm not an expert on Christ either. So, I guess we shouldn't talk about Christ until we get to be an expert. I think what I'm trying to say is if you have to be blunt about something that you think in your best life is not right, then you talk about it bluntly.

[75:13]

Yeah. Well, yeah. But the question is, is it going to be helpful? That's the question. Is it going to be beneficial? If somebody's about to, I don't know what, you know, swim across a river and you don't think they're going to make it, you might be kind of blunt and say, you know, I just don't think you're going to be able to make it. I really don't think you should do it." Kind of blunt. You can't swim. It's too dangerous. And you might say that really kind of strongly because you think it would be helpful to snap them out of it. Sometimes people are hysterical, you know, in some dangerous situations. Sometimes people slap them in the face. It seems to be okay. But the intention is really to help, right? And then at those times, you've got to look and see, well, how did it work out? Sometimes in those situations, the person says, thank you, and it really does help.

[76:21]

Other times they say, you know, you didn't have to hit me that hard. You could have just said, don't do it. You didn't have to slap me. The point is, to the best of your ability, you said to the best of your lights, you do what you think is best, and then you find out that you screwed up. that you were unskillful even though you did your best, and then you say, I'm sorry, and the next time you do it differently. Like another famous story is this guy was walking along the side of a lake. He saw a fish laying there. He threw the fish back into the lake. That fish had been caught and taken out of the lake by the people who farmed the lake because that fish was a fish-eating fish. So then the farmers caught the guy, beat him up severely, caught the fish again, killed the fish. Maybe they were even moving the fish to some other place where the fish wouldn't be so damaging, moving it where the fish is its own size or something.

[77:25]

The guy was trying to help, but he didn't examine the situation. You know, or sometimes you might let something, some dangerous person out of jail or something, and then they go out and cause trouble. Your intention is to help, but you also sometimes should look to understand what the situation is. So just wanting to help is good, but being intelligent and asking questions is also good. Like, again, some people think they're doing you a favor by giving you a kiss. They think, I like you. You probably would like it if I gave you a kiss. So they just give you a kiss, right? But, you know, you don't think they're doing you a favor. You think, you know, that they're being rude or, you know, assaulting you, abusing you. But they could say, well, I feel this, I have this feeling, you know, this loving feeling for you and I just want to give you a kiss. But they could also say, well, do you want a kiss? Or may I kiss you? They could say that, but... if they don't examine the possibility that maybe even though they think it's good, it maybe isn't, then they just go ahead and do it and then hopefully they learn that it wasn't appropriate.

[78:36]

And then next time they say, oh, I did that one time with a young man, you know, He was crying, you know. And I reached over and embraced him. And then later he told me, a couple days later, he told me, you know, that was really, I forgot what he said, but I said, when you do that, you have to ask me if that's okay because my father sexually molested me. So when you do that to me, that really was hard for me. And I never thought that I had to ask a man if I could hug him. But I do have to ask a man if I hug him, actually. So now I wouldn't hug a man even without asking, even though I figured, well, right? And, you know, it really hurt me when he told me that because I thought I was really, I don't usually hug men who are upset. I thought I was really going out of my way to be kind, you know? So it really hurt me that he told me that I hurt him.

[79:39]

But that's how you learn. to help people is you learn that sometimes when you're most trying to help people, actually you hurt them. And that really hurts you. And then sometimes you say, again, you say, well, I'm not going to try to help people anymore. Well, you know, get over it. And then try again. So we have to go all this trouble of asking people, right? It's not that hard, right? People usually ask me if they can hug me. They don't very often just come up and hug me. They usually ask. Doesn't seem to be that big a problem to ask. And usually they mean it as a friendly thing, but they still ask. So I think we can just do that with each other. If we want to do something helpful for each other, a lot of times it's okay to ask beforehand because it's using that much trouble. Now, surprise birthday parties are different. They're dangerous, you know, because the person might not want a surprise birthday party.

[80:45]

So you've got to be careful. But you could ask the person, you know, like years in advance. Or like right after the birthday party, you know. Ask them, would you like a surprise birthday party someday? And they usually forget by the next year. But you can't ask them the day before, right? But it's true, you know, some people don't want a birthday party and they would feel harassed by having a birthday party. So you have to be careful. But that's part of the precepts, is being careful. Buddha is careful. Buddha is gentle. Buddha is not a rough, tough critter. He's really gentle with people. But sometimes Buddha might, even though Buddha is generally gentle, Buddha might possibly slap someone who's hysterical on the edge of a cliff.

[81:49]

But basically gentle. That's the usual way people like. But you can be gentle and strong. Those can go together. So you can say to someone very gently, no, we're not going to do this. No, I don't feel comfortable doing this. No, I don't feel comfortable doing this. No, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. Or I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do that. No, I'm actually not going to do it. I'm actually not going to sit here and let this happen. And you can gently interact with the situation and protect beings from harm. You know, ever heard of judo? Judo means a gentle way. It's a gentle way to work with, you know, aggressive energy, to use it in such a way that nobody gets hurt. Yes.

[82:52]

Yes. Amen. Like, if they're getting into maybe some challenging relationship or something. Yeah. Well, that doesn't seem like such a problem. I mean, if the person didn't like me for something I did to help them, that's not just a problem. I mean, you might think so, but it's more of a problem if I'm trying to help somebody and actually it hurts them.

[84:00]

But it's not such a problem if I'm trying to help somebody and it does and then they don't like me for doing it. So that's possible. If somebody's going to swim across a river that, you know, nobody could swim across and you tell them you don't think they can do it and they don't, you know, And they feel put down by you saying that. But they don't kill themselves. And they don't like you for it afterwards. I've been in situations like that. It often happens with, well, like little boys. Their parents say, you know, that you can't do that, and they don't do it, and they don't get killed, and they don't like being told that, and they survive. And when they're about 50 years old, they realize that it was a good thing. Meantime, they hated the person all those years. Right. But you didn't hurt them. The point is you don't hurt them. What they think of you is not the issue.

[85:02]

Helping people does not necessarily make them like you. The point is to help them whether they like. And also not helping people sometimes does make them like you. Letting them go do something which they get harmed at They sometimes like you for that. Sometimes you really love someone and it has nothing to do with letting them do it or not, but sometimes you really love them and they really do appreciate it, but sometimes they don't. The point is you don't do this for yourself, you do it for them. Now if it's going to harm you, people disliking you doesn't necessarily harm you, but if it's going to harm you then that wouldn't be appropriate. So you shouldn't do something to help somebody that's going to really harm you. But somebody disliking you for helping them is not really harm to you, I wouldn't think. Because I think your enlightenment grows by that.

[86:09]

The more skillful we get at helping people, the more closer we are to being a Buddha. Plus, so we're benefiting and they're benefiting. They're benefiting and we're benefiting. But sometimes our spiritual growth and their welfare go together with us being not liked. The case I just told you was that story, right? The guy was not liked. He grew spiritually. They were benefited. The daughter survived. The baby was taken care of. The parents, everybody was okay. They were all benefited. And he grew spiritually greatly. So that's the story right there. And that's the story that really encouraged me to practice Zen. I thought, boy, that is really cool. I want to learn how to do that one.

[87:12]

so anyway let's try okay let's try to do the beneficial thing and then sometimes we try and we don't do very well so then we say oh i learned something that time let's try again ah it worked a little better still a little bit off try again so these precepts we try to practice these precepts and And trying to practice the precepts is the medium in which you learn how to practice the precepts. And you try and you make mistakes, but that's the medium in which you gradually get better. And as you get better, that becomes the medium for getting better. So we gradually get more and more skillful the more we practice them. But there's quite a few mistakes, so confession is part of the practice. So as you see, I made an unskillful thing tonight, so I confess that. And next time that I talk about the men in the sauna, it'll be different.

[88:15]

But maybe still funny. So think about this, how to help people on the street, some ways that you can prepare your life to take care of this, respond to these

[88:36]

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