there is a teaching coming from different traditions said it is quite similar it's basically about different types of compassion
so one one there's a teaching that there are three types of compassion
and they can be defined in terms of objects
so the first type of compassion
as living beings
as it's objects
living beings as such
living beings per se
in other words the compassion looks at living beings as though they were
just like intrinsically in the way they appear as objects that that's the way they are and
well wishing them to be free of suffering
and and and committing
one's life
two freeing them from suffering sentient beings are numberless five-hour to save them so seeing sentient beings per se as the objects of compassion the second type of compassion
human beings in the light of the teaching
to observe suffering
in the light of the teaching
and the third type the object with the third type doesn't exist the third type doesn't have objects
it's compassion with without an object
like i was picking up yesterday is is intimacy
so the first one just like
the
customary way of seeing beings and feel feel compassion for them and be devoted to their their liberation second type is too
contemplates that sentient beings and their suffering in the lead of the or third
it's object less compassion is just intimacy with it with suffering
the first type is also called
sometimes sentimental compassion
and sentimental and the sense of it's customary
it's it's a kind of compassion we would normally think of compassion
which is this is compassion
that's suffering
i'm compassionate i'm i felt compassion for that person this way of approaching compassion and it is part of it's part of
the great compassion which is the third type is part of it but it has drawbacks
that's the second type is that you realize that
that the compassion that we feel
is in in the realm of
our delusion that we are we are diluted beings who feel compassion for other suffering banks
and that our ideas of compassion are illusions of compassion and the suffering that were contemplating is illusory and the beings that we're a company got that were contemplating are illusory
we still have this wish
to practice is illusory compassion with is illusory beings and this illusory suffering

we realized that the beings we want to practice compassion towards have no inherent existence and we don't either
and the compassion doesn't and the suffering deceit and we still wish to devote our lives to practice this ungraspable compassion to ungraspable beings who have ungraspable suffering
the first type of compassion has the drawback
that if we practice compassion this way
but we will
we will get
drained
in our compassionate practice
every time we meet someone in free
care for them and we apprehend them in the way they appeared to us it drains us
i helped you that drains me
i was high practice patience and generosity and i was careful and kind to you
and that was me and that was you and this was the compassion that way of relating of grasping thing is that way it is compassion it is compassion
but it is draining and if we if we do it a little bit now and then
i don't know ten times a day
you can survive probably
repeat do it two hundred times a day
you're going to want to retire quite soon
because every interaction
your apprehending things that are your apprehending illusions and that drains us
the second type of compassion
frees us from the first type of compassion
it doesn't get rid of it is just liberate us from the problems in the first type and then and enables us to continue the work of compassion
without falling into i was compassionate to you i helped you are you know you help me
so the second type freezes from the problems of the first type but the second type although it's it's it's an amazing thing because it
it's been devoted to beings that you don't actually believe exist ultimately you you're devoted to pays which you understand our
what do you check what's the word only exist conventionally but you still devoted to them
however
the second type has the problem of getting stuck in the non-existence of the other beings
a third type isn't even it is just intimacy
and it freezes from the problems of the second type of the second type of loses some of its energy because there's still some sense of separation
and there's some adherents to to the illusory nature of phenomenon
so the first type is adhering to the substantial appearance of phenomena
like judy was saying yesterday the self gets smaller i think she said something to me did you say smaller lesser
it becomes less substantial we normally it people appear to be substantial suffering appears to be substantial the helper appears to be substantial
and that drains us if we apprehend that as real that appearance of substantial the second type of compassion
here's where we examine the first type and realize
that is illusory and it's insubstantial
the third type
crysis from second type phrases from abiding is substantially g
so if we're free of abiding in such an actuality by the second type were free of abiding an insubstantial eighty by the third type
so those are three types of compassion the third type of compassion embraces the other two and liberates the other to the first one is necessary we must do it
and because the great compassion embraces the first type so the first type is part of our work
the second type is to call the first type into question to examine it the question had to probit to observe it and to notice its drawbacks

now i want to talk about something else
but if you're not ready to move on from this i mean i think you might have a lot of questions about this
but i kind of wanted to introduce something else alongside of it
okay
yeah yeah so
buddhahood is
concerned is involved in protecting beings who are living in prison and liberate deliberating them
and buddhahood realizes that boot that the prison is not a prison
buddhahood bears on karmic consciousness which is a prison
put a buddhahood bears on the thinking consciousness and realize this that
the prison is not a prison
by becoming intimate with the prison where realize that the prison of our karmic consciousness is not a prison
by becoming intimate with our thinking we realize that are thinking is not thinking
and we become liberated from the prison and would become liberated with are thinking without getting rid of the prison are getting rid of are thinking
we live in a prison
as we say would give bestowing hands we live in the prison joyfully and and in friendship with all the beings who are imprisoned with us
the body sought are not outside of prison they dive into prison and they teach beings how wonderful prison life can be
but he sought just dive into the weeds of thinking and then teach beings the joy or practicing thinking together and becoming free of thinking by are practicing together
they don't do by themselves
and compassion is the way we become intimate
with the prison with are thinking
and last night linda brought up something about study the self and forget the self
and i wanted is also say a bit more about that against studied itself means again to observe the self question the self experiment with the self explore the self that studying the self and as that practice
develops in matures and we have and also the studying the self has to be done in conversation with other beings you can't we can't go very deep into the study of the self without being in conversation with others
but by the deep conversation in this enclosure
of consciousness where there's self we become free of all that
yeah all the confinement and distortion of are thinking
so it says studies itself and forget the self so what does forget the self mean so in the guest in the case of the self in the consciousness i mentioned that the self to contrast his afflictions
so if we practice compassion with as afflictions
they're not afflictions anymore and the self is forgotten but what does it mean is forgotten
isn't eliminated is just not the center
we're just not afflicted with it being at the center anymore it's still in the current is still there but it's no longer an affliction
it's just a serviceable function of the mind
in that sense it's forgotten is no longer were no longer clinging to it were no longer attached to it were no longer afraid for it it's it's still can appear and disappear with consciousness but the afflictions drop away

so those are some things i wanted to put out for discussion this morning
three types of compassion for getting the self
and also there's a one of a another zen teacher name so wacky roshi his teaching was for present practice was settled the self on the self
settle itself from the salt settle those
afflictions onto this afflictions and unsettling the self and self forget to self
not get rid of it forget it
or not forget it like you should forget it it is forgotten in being into settling with the self is to be intimate with the self and again
some people might think they settled the self the self but they need other people that come up and say is yourself settled on yourself
so that's like a i don't know how many times
zen teachers have asked their students is yourself subtle and yourself have you settled on yourself have yourself settled and yourself
and the student thought that they had settled herself on the self and then the teacher asked them and then they realized that they hadn't
or at the student comes to the teacher says the self is settled on the self and self has forgotten and the teacher says or really congratulations and they realize know there's still a little unsettling us there's still a little lack of intimacy
so this meeting this between us
is necessary for us to settle
into prison into consciousness into thinking
into the self
so this and this settling into the self and forgetting the self is also can be called buddhahood
that protects bangs that liberates banks
and the way it's done the way we intimately settle the self into the self is by meeting each other face to face
this process of settling
and dropping away his his meaning is giving our face to to other beings
and receiving there's

which is part of the reason why some people are very happy to be her today because we can actually give our faces to each other

like i've been seeing some of your faces for quite a while from last year or so but now i'm actually seeing
your face and another way
it's
now
it's amazing the difference
and it's so subtle
so that's what i that's what i offered here for for discussion is more new all that
ah a homer
can everybody by the way can you hear me well this morning
pardon
yes
thank you hama
ah

russians
also
snow
it's easier to understand
okay
i want to listen and endurance
okay
so it became clear that at least obviously on down the reason that i need those faces is because i'm offering first nebula
first met a lot of passion is i
i
other compassionate so as long as i already am first
a cash
all of these things rises
which
which is ah which also
i've started i understand the second
how
inspired me to pay off to gather yeah

i thank you for what you said and
he he said what i said in a slightly different way which is how helpful i just thought of it but another part of it is
the yard
i'm helping you cook and please come back so i can help you some more
than you and don't come back so i can help your more all that kind of stuff happens
and that's part of a deal the deal with that
i saw two people are
marlena and jessica
come
yeah
intimated share what it has been this year
so i
and this here i hear the call
okay so much a lot of other stuff about that
and job as you say event
and the way each of the i i don't mean that able bodied show us the program
i've heard of and we'll see if you were ill
because that so i i have been in this process because of and challenges requires precisely
being a self compassion compassion and with great compassion and he has been our gross it's also because to meant to be compassionate with others and to be able to breathe in color space in the chocolates before the us i had to get my offers and go to all of this
roses on my own promising i am there's not a issues to get into law april beside her open space or my concern myself and the compassionate about like cells from neutral comics in v and on the same time knowing that i has stop or by
so far as well
it is going into this psychopath but i experienced this first compassion with your a challenge and voice like equal social workers people work in a non for profits being with people to soccer and taking the energy you have to be as already you prepared for passionately
so for them because otherwise would be a as you say and i just feel it that with all this suffering in the world with a evil children and water with the very soft rain
the special interests case of is love these organizations in everyday life and everything that is going around in atlanta in the air far and the s craig's creating and
yeah yeah cry me started the said this is this code well it's experienced on how is get will be more by always so you can get to this was available if you're like wow wow is this really know it really is barry go in to your conversation because you have go
how about these went up and bluff what a good investment for sparing about ways was a tomato compassionate so well this is to do is so thank you very much because you helped me to go to the second part to the staple confessional statement by say i say i told talking about my process a
that's when swimming western to cow
how to avoid people is like what is going only the most as to when you get something this kind of sentimental question is when you really quit and think people with enough profit with a useful trial that i don't even have a variety of the verses right now they they are getting the
it wasn't asking this is you can get there so we got it that my buddhist practice if you teach you open the window safe house so guests were is mean also that i have no my cream and by the software that you know and i started getting to be said of whereas the go-to
it's not true in a true
every sunday will be passionate them too because you can became ill me kindness can be visible obviously negative story
nice to l of it needs so you can infest the matter you might spell it out there and i am trying to go but i a stop or enough in this other crap it he's been became industrial music video well when you can be to celebrate in
something but it's nice not get going for like you know my looking for like robbie wells is is really real because desktop suffering anyway we are here of the when the formation of the world so
and my question to you is because face every questions about how you serve it was just what i mean having the the start of path i want to serve the populations that has separate is a lot of you shouldn't be racism and social justice so how do i guess
my buddhist practice how employees smoke rises is the place for basic nine we're talking about activities more perspective i am talking more about being just
with this is how so i feel are in real life
stones
my purses it's the what part of your process
oh stuck c pesky is
so
do you feel some stuckness in the process
between
i think is
experience
you
into the confessional style
and it was have now out go about social changes
day
devastation raises a wait an hour race hours or in you once you get into this fair is my our methods was com
and you see it all the time it's like you're sleeping is given equal
it's like that fails come out in june came
and here this is why would you say on you use my old ways or okay how i hope i didn't skew were greatly this you
going
best where he spent on fire right right
his teachings with such strangest places
it's about that we read
when you said when you ask the question how do i get to skills
i saw some heads nodding with the question how do i get the skills
oh why we can skip
how my hot how how do i become skillful know

so you're looking at the ocean of suffering and the question arises how do i become
skillful

and ashley will be no issues
him

are you are you there with those questions
are you
settled with those questions are you settled
those questions
no
you know so
yeah i feel
i feel very good a bunch of questions and a wonder now let's settle with those questions
let's observe those questions
this experiment with those questions
but does not the same and it's getting an answer your questions
you could you could use answer the questions as experiments but not to get anything
if you try to get something
you're you're going to be stuck in the first type of compassion
so this question arises and i think many people appreciate that question how do we become
skillful how do we practice compassion with this ocean of suffering
analysts
but that's that's something to contemplate that question contemplate observed that question observed that question settled into that question
do you want to settle into that question you want to live with that question
yeah
i'd have to
let's do let's do that
and
will that bring the skills
will this observation bring the skills let's see if it doesn't
let's see if it doesn't does that mean it never will
let's see let's do it let's do this let's contemplate these questions
let's make them something we remember that we recollect throughout the day in a way that we
build confidence and enthusiasm about remembering
so i'm
i'm enthusiastic about remembering your questions and observing them and pack an experimental with them and exploring them
that's that's the path i would like to join you on okay
jessica
jessica use a microphone

could we use a microphone
you want to do it the wanna go to get have a relay race
thanks
guys want to tell you a funny thing
funny story but it's not take away funny and to them and tell your story sometimes robin williams your formal ceremonies we carry a stick have you seen that
carrick we carried the stick and i wish i had one one time and i was talking is having a meeting with somebody and she says
what is that baton for
because we caught a japanese recalled a code to and but it's also used to stick you know and that's been called other things like teaching staff or whatever but anyway she called it a baton i hadn't heard to call it a time before i thought
the times kind of interesting word because of bhutan is used to as to at an order to court to lead an orchestration of something but it's also used like you know in a relay race you pass the baton
and i thought that stick is is for is both those meetings it's used to orchestrate
to lead to lead some symphony
but it's also something that you pass on to the next person to pass onto the next person so anyway now you have the baton and i think police use them to write to beat people are fallacious and to that the hit people with the need to know
and they get the direct t yeah thank you
that that's important to thank you
huh
and the major it has been there were times yeah so the times a nice word so now you have the baton do
so i have a
question about protection and
for people who have already died
and
tez great compassion protect that does what protect the people who have already time yes
okay i'm here with great compassion was
say that again i just taking the time we're going to end at ten o'clock right
so yeah so come back can you be intimate with a person
who has died
yes
now and how and how do you do that
how do you practice intimacy with someone who has died
to me it's an easier because it feels like they are here
they're not out there anymore
so
it feels almost like there's no choice
and
because they're just almost a part of you now
and
the compassion is there all the time
the love is there all the time
i see how it helps me but i don't see how it helps that person
you don't see it that's right and also use use you think you see how you help you
you think you see how it helps you
but i was suggesting that you cannot see how it helps you mute you you you do see how it helps you but that's not the full extent of how it helps you i would say you
and you can't see how it helps him
but the way you're actually help him nobody can see even the ten thousand and sages don't know
so this is why someone might said this is a spiritual teaching
so
we this practice were doing even the ten thousand and sages don't know
this intimacy we do sometimes see i see how it happens let's find that you see how it's happening that's fine but that's not that's not how it the way is really happening is beyond your perception of how it's happening
and if you have a perception than that's fine
but it's be just that perception doesn't reach it
however if you don't have a perception not having a perception doesn't reach it easier
and part of you wants to have a perception of it
hey that's perfectly on but we all like we we we were kind of addicted to perception is part of our thing here perceptions in our cosmic consciousness that we are mine makes for example another human being into something we can perceive but that's that's not all day are
they're not separate from that but that that doesn't comprehend them so
when you were first saying that unites and ives imagine you being intimate with this person who has died
and i was and i remembered as zen story about
a zen monk and china every morning he got up and he said
master
and then he would say yes
are you awake yes all day long
don't let anything for you and i thought that would be something that one could do with a person who has died every morning say
say his name
an answer
are you awake answer and all day long don't be fooled by all this going on all these perceptions to stay with the intimacy with him
every morning checking with with him
can i invite him to meet you and thence and then all day long don't let anything distract you from that intimacy
course it might happen that you get distracted but that's your intention is not to be distracted from this intimacy and how that intimacy help you i can't see and you can see the ten thousand and sages can't see how that intimacy helped you but that is the teaching
you know
jessica yes
are you awake yes all day long to learn anything for you i want i mean i'll try not to
how does that help you
oh i see
or i don't see but it does got the teaching that's the best practice that's being offered how does it work i don't know but that person did that practice and that's been transmitted to us
i also wonder what is he protected from
the protected with to you know like get birth and death
somebody's dying
the protection is to be a practice loving kindest
in the death towards the sickness we have sickness the protection is loving kindness and compassion nesta protection
an intimacy is to protection
if if something if some pains out there
it harms us
if it's not out there it doesn't harm us
that's the teacher
ha that a ancient teacher says who can take the bell strings off the tiger's neck
i guess maybe in i don't know you know with with with cats sometimes they put they put belgium's to protect the birds right
but they can also put tigers bell strings on tigers next when they're little
hey
my lot of people would dare to put tiger
tiger bells on a bit on a tiger calibrate who can take the bell strings off the tiger's neck the one who put them on can take it off
in other words if you can be intimate if euro intimate with a tiger you can take the bells off the tigers neck
so intimacy
is the way
to help
do people who are sick people were dying and people who have died
how it works is is demonstrated by doing the practice
how to verify that is by doing the practice
and then you do the practice and you feel verification but how did that work
you feel courage and juicy as and to go on with all this in the mischievous suffering you feel joy to help other people who are suffering how did that work well it worked because he did the practice and when you first started in the practice you kind of were somewhat confused and inconsistent and
didn't really put your whole heart into it and then you did and then you feel like
i wanna keep doing this
so if you do this practice with a deceased person
that's how it works
you can see the practice you're doing but the way it works is not anything other than what you're doing
like
is it sean
miles miles
miles yes are you awake yes
all day long don't let anything for you i want
do that practice that's that's how that's how it helps him
that's how it helps you and you might not be able to see how it helps you some days but you can see how it helps him but how use but again what you see is not
is not how it is it's just something you see it said
it's a lovely perception
that's what i would say about
yeah and i do i can do that with suzuki roshi
i can do that with my father my mother
i can do that with my grandson
so i do you know i'm and i water his tree
i go to water my grandsons tree
how to set protect him
but that's how it protects him and need watering that redwood tree is how that's protecting him that's the way i do it
here's another story somebody said to me
said me you don't know how you help people can i thought
right
but then he told me how i helped me

he told me a story how how how how how i help people and i didn't know about that story but then he told me one so he told me i didn't know but and he thought hindu and so he told me
he and his wife were getting he and his fiance were going to get married he went to a jeweler
to buy a ring and they found something they like and they and they felt kind of
uncomfortable with the price the press wanted for it
and they were kind of like i'm you know what they were doing their kind of like heaven kind of an uncomfortable conversation and his wife his future wife
said on
in notice say a man gives jaws he had some buddhist statues and she said our you a buddhist
and
and he said yeah
and it's a oh where do you practice he told them he said well who is your teacher he said rev and or since my teacher and they said oh page your teacher oh he's going to do our wedding ceremony and then the guy gave him much better price
i started acting very nice to them and everything was very harmonious so he told me see you you didn't know
that's how you help people but that's that's just a story
no her sister story i don't know how i help people we don't know how we're helping people
other the way we help people is how were relating to them now that's how we help them that's how they're protected it's not something animals but the products we can't see it then sometimes we hear stories oh that's nice
i think i do the practice of being intimate with your boy do that practice that's how he's protected
the by what you buy what you're doing that's your life is how is protecting your life is how he deliberated
but it's your life of service it's your life of devotion to him it's not your life
if you don't put if you're not protecting yourself and taking care of yourself that doesn't protect you but if you do this practice for him but if you do this printer for him that protects you and you can see that
and that protects him
but don't look for anything beyond what you're doing just do what you're doing wholeheartedly for him all day long can carry your other boys and your husband for him
that protects him and protect you
and how does it protect you
how does it protect you it protects you buy you doing that
you doing that is is the protection is deliberation
but it's very soul you know to think oil in he do that but then something else happens rather than the practice is the realization
the practice is the awakening rather than the practice and then they awakening
what i think of him and wish him well and pray for his peace and freedom and then his peace and freedom something other than that no
it can't be in mustn't be
but you can start with that i do this in that's the sentimental
i'm talking about the intimate way
that what you're doing your life you're living is his protection
his his liberation
thank you

passing the baton we're
did they do you ever had read marie
i'm i'm thinking about based on your conversation with jessica
but then i well i'm thinking about faith and i haven't heard you really talk about that since we've been here and face have a on t h correct
yeah and
kind of
so what you're saying is that we just the act of doing these things that are just the action because we can't really know
what's gonna happen
but
if our intention is to crises something to sit up with
just before you said because we can't really know that's kind of like up
oh well that's that's true
but before you said that is where the faces
there's no there's not a with faith is not a because
but there isn't because the which helps you go back and before the because and do the thing wholeheartedly and then and thanks well i do it wholeheartedly because i can't know it's true that you can't know but in doing that the action the practice for
heartedly that is from realization people
i have a hard time doing the thing wholeheartedly the right
but when you have realization that you can do it wholeheartedly so of it's faith
when you actually can do the practice fully but that's also realization so it's faith and realization
and also there's a because
you know
at serpents some sort of after before the just doing it as the real decision
and i am i and that's it then it doing it as realization is a statement of faith
so good morning marie
can not even good morning murray yes that's a state that can be a statement of faith nobody knows what's going on there what are you doing what you say
murray yes what's happening there even the ten thousand and sages don't know but before we asked the question you're just sitting here just calling your name your name
and when you do it wholeheartedly that his faith
that is practice that is realization
and also by the way nobody knows what that is
none of the zen ancestors know what that is but they practiced it and they realized that and they practice to that was their face so dogan said and again dog when he was dying he said concerning the buddha dharma there's ten million things i do not yet have clarified but i have the joy
joy of right faith which is we do the practice and this is this is this intimate doing the practice is the realization so that is our faith
and by the way nobody knows whether that is including dorgan
good thank you welcome

so when i also when i was talking to jessica i wish that that was a statement of faith from me that was my faith
so i live in the conventional world and i'm a person who has a habit of wanting to be supported you want to be support and i want to be support and single supporting me
i am
i was touched when you were talking with marlena because i realized that especially with i had not heard your your differentiation of the three compassion is this morning
i
i like doing the first one and part of why i like doing this i get people going oh that's good thank you yeah and i sometimes do the second one i'm not sure if i've ever done the third but when i do the second i'm pretty sure i don't get any support like senior notes that the people who are not
lot of this ilk or has not heard this teaching and i don't know if that keeps me awake during the second one and just staying in the first you don't know what if is that lack of support or indigenous that's where you need to find some people to have conversations with people who want to have conversations
with your yes who want to observe and question
but not everybody is ready for the second type
darren's the first type of doing it and get you know and i'm enjoying it
and maybe not yet noticing the drawbacks
but people who are burn out stay the willing to talk to people who are like you were doing this practice but
i'm getting thanks
and feeling good about it is but also
your during the practice you're feeling are you doing to practice your family and better you're doing the practice you feeling better
feeling better and better and then you explode
so that kind of practice when you're doing when you're doing the second type you're not really feeling better or worse mean
you're you're observing feeling better and worse which is what the first time as thick as the first type has these outflows it drains the drain drains and also called floods so it it drains out and and dreams if floods in and floods out
the technical buddhist term as ostrava which means outflow but it also influence you gain and lose your practicing compassion which you gain and lose yeah we see me we help this person did they all we didn't help doctrine
you're getting shoved around and a little bit of that is still enjoyable because it's it's good work and you do get the do get some gains
but if you do a lot you start to notice that the way you're doing is pushing you around and and jackie you up and draining you so with people who are doing their practice with you who have noticed that those people are wanting to talk to you and have conversations and support you to do this and the
first kind is hard but it's good the second kind is hard and another way but it's good and the third type
if you know you said you said you don't know about third time the third type you're already doing each to have discovered yet
oh okay yeah you can get a whale try to discover it now and the way discovered is by doing what you're already doing and then questioning what you're already doing but you need some friends to question and you and new question with this group sometimes right yeah i was thinking and we haven't been questioning too much during this retreat but the
a few treats cf lots of questions we thank you so much
the questioning
this this is a group where you can question cause these people are are not self righteous about their compassion
that's another word self-righteous compassion there's another word for it
i'm i'm i'm being compassionate to you
i know what compassion is and i'm laying it on you
or i can say who in this room is can that's again sentimental compassion but also self righteous so
if we we need to question our are our self-righteousness about compassion we knew as if we need to invite other people to question it and so we need friends to convert verse to get us into the second and then to converse about that till we discover the third huh
which is already here it's already here we are it's unconstructive the third is unconstructive you can't see it
but you can discover it even though you can't see it you can discover something you can't see
and i i have said some people by using
christopher columbus as an example of an explorer
without noticing that he was also a very cruel
administrator in the lads that you know i guess i'm not the island of hispaniola he became the governor there and he tortured to the indigenous people here he did horrible things
but he's a good example as an explorer and he was looking for something and he discovered something and didn't know what it was
so but he but he was an explorer and he did make discoveries and he discovered a new world and he thought it was an old world
so and he was self righteous about it till the end of his life he he he held onto that and nobody could help him

thank you paul for your questioning
how about those three types of compassion lived the has
ah
so i was thinking that another way to think about them is the way i've always thought about the heart sutra
form emptiness form emptiness
and talking about those three gas for i didn't think there was a need for three but it's okay that you gave us three you know
it's just like serve like a donkey cart horse cart a goat cart and
but i wanted to say that a form emptiness form of seem like first compassion second compassion
and ah what i always got from the heart sutra was it forms emptiness is form is emptiness is form is emptiness and when that is actually happening then you're in what you call the third compassion
yeah
hmm so i wanted to check this with you but while i was thinking of checking it with you i noticed
that at the same time as sincerely wanting to just have that conversation about this ways of talking about compassion i was also
afflicted by wanting you as a substantial person and as many people as possible in this room
to love me an admirer me for saying that
and that
seems like a kind of affliction
and ah
i was gonna ask you
for a little help on it
and then i already jumped to an imagination of what you might say

which
her
of which is just as simple
helpful hint which is
open up in compassion that your chest flow out and embrace you're grasping above
and you're needing of people's ah no yeah the cover the whole land and part of the land is that that's part of the land
yeah that's it
the that's energy if that's you and i wouldn't say that's it say that again please him but that does it goes on the just keep flowing that's not it
in other ways even the ten thousand filters don't know it even though the a would flow out of your breath out of your breast and cover that that wish for appreciation it cut it goes there is
and then stopped before you say that's it
but got that that that would be what i would say you're right
and including that
we're going to get rid of that
that that wish
doesn't need to be gotten rid of it needs to be brushed
from here
okay did get it
the flow out for that
that's what i would say but did it happen even my one or seven or eight little sages don't know yet and here
yeah so that will be the teaching and she's not sure if if if if they would happen
but and also interest in the original story with this is like the a this story of django and srei phone they were dharma brothers but yantra was also show a former teacher who said just let a flawed and cover the earth
it doesn't say that srei schriften
got a did flow out of them it just said he woke up
and then and then effort then on we get to watch howard flowed for the rest of his life but he woke up to that's where it's out
and so knowledge watch it and what we're watching something which the ten thousand and say just don't know but we're watching it
kyrgyzstan were watching it flow from our breaths and we can't see it
i don't know the next a
how many hands either those qualities so how many have our gives or for people there are closely related
it's it's kind of neighborhoods me

did to say linda how much i admire and love you
i wasn't trying to get you to say that
that's the key factor i wish forward but i'm not trying to get it
we naturally as as social animals we we want people to appreciate it's it's built into our nervous system into ourselves that's okay i mean that sleigh
unavoidable
but we don't have to like attached to that and try to get it but it's naturally that we wish for it
but we can just say okay there's the wish them and then not not acted out
yeah
i'm i'm going to speak to what marlena bread up
i worry about spiritual bypass for myself whatever that is oh
i'm
and can i say something rather go
it's fine to worry but you can also without worrying just observe just keep vigilant about spiritual bypassing the worry is optional
the observation is essential
watching out for spiritual bypass is essential but worrying is okay fortunately it doesn't really help you observe to worry just keep your eyes or and rubber very tires you a little bit to worry
so just watch out for it it could it could be happening any time any place that we can be circumventing suffering by some spiritual technique
i think some people are wondering with you don't recognize sitter
yeah i don't order ordered is either here's what but i'll tell you what i'm worried about about it he actually i think the person who gets credit for that term is the
former john wellwood
he came up with a term spiritual bypass which is to use like to use meditation to avoid pain like some people who practice concentration and when and as a way to avoid pan or somebody else like as autistic person i heard him say that when he was being team
he's on the playground which was like overwhelmingly painful for him because he couldn't cope with the neurological storm that was going on he will just are squaring numbers
and then buy this buy this print technique he would like go to this island of a piece in the in the middle of that storm
it was him to get away from the pan
the problem is he said how to get back from island
so the problem of spiritual bypasses it takes you away from the suffering and is not and then it's harder to get back so it's good to watch out for am i trying to get away from the pain so there's various techniques and concentration is one of the main ones
that well if that works hard like not really protect you from the pan
but bypass it whereas loving kindness like needs it compassion meets it doesn't go around it and again when we first are practicing compassion we might do a kind of spiritual bypass type of a compassion which seems like we're meeting it but really we're skirting around it that's why we need other people
let's say you're not really facing and i don't think are you really facing it so let's watch out for that spiritual bypass and help other people
some people tell us you know what they're doing with their hopes we i think this general i think your spiritual bypassing
i think you're a circumventing the pain so watch for it in yourself and if you notice yourself you'll be able to help others with that too so let's let's be vigilant and careful about the possibilities slipping into circumventing suffering
more accurately i don't think i'm worried about it i do think i'm conscious of it yeah but and from really mindful of yeah him for me
it would look like being signed to buddhism and everything is just the way it is so i'm just loving the world the way it is that it doesn't take me into the streets it doesn't have me read the papers and say what can i do what
should i do so that that's the story in my head but the thing i wanted to say is that and and i was thinking about the word face before he even brought it up today that i do have a faith that this practice and my practice
is trustworthy in a certain way and that whatever my guilt is or my fear of it's really fear of not doing enough that that's what the real fears is okay i'm going to be this uncomfortable i'm willing to let in this much pain and then i'm staying do
hey fear of not doing enough yes okay so there is a good one don't circumvent the fear of not doing enough
if the fear of not doing enough as president in a lot of consciousnesses
why some people try to do in response to the fear of not doing enough is they try to do more to get rid of the fear
makes sense which is acting out
it's acting out avoiding doing your job so when you're for frayed of not doing enough don't do more
so that you won't be afraid of not doing enough embraced the fear of not doing enough and that's doing and that's doing something
i guess that's wonderful so and i feel like what you're saying to jessica i feel is a little bit applicable for me here is it just revisit revisit okay right now okay how's it right now so the questioning and not having a
dad you are good you is helpful for me and then i my final thing you want to say is that i feel like practice and study has increased my capacity to be with paid to be helpful with suffering people and specifically i spent
time working in prison
where this phenomenal amount of suffering right here and
it's just at the edge of what i can bear and be present to and to the extent that i can and am
i understand what as practice provides you so that helps you do you say increases your capacity now
the the the etymology of the word for the sanskrit word for patients
which with is khashoggi
which is sounds like shanti shanti please throw caution to the root of it means capacity so patience is the capacity for for suffering and by practicing it it increases we can increase it you can read you can increase it
by sitting still for a while and dealing with what comes up there you can increase it by visiting prisons you can increase it by reading about the history of the caste system and racism in america to hear the listened to these
painful stories to taste these these are ways to massage an open your capacity
as part of the work is patience
increasing capacity and also increasing the ability to be present with it so opening up to the pan through practice patience and being present with a pan through patients
thank you
hmm i'm not to see i'm not fully sure i'm the one before susan's i want to check with that
mine was response
would you care
as usual
i just seemed really emphasising that it's important to me that it was okay with you if i like first or i could give it to
i see what would you like or have no preference for was gay
ah thank you
am and i'm not sure what i'm gonna say here or what what my question is if there's a question that there is one i'm sure and and it has to do with am
when i'm willing to risk any given moment i'm in my practice and and i one of the there's many ways you don't know you've helped me and i have its list of brabazon and i think it's up to about sixteen or seventeen right now and and are really marvelous
this to for really deep deep guide points for me in one of them is not to take on her practice that's too advanced for you at any given moment it's fine to be a little afraid but if you're too afraid so so i'm wanting to check in with that about what i why am i actually speaking right now
and so i think who my voice voices just echoing from me
i think i i here i think i think am
so the question is like what how do i know i'm being whole heart
am i willing to risk that cause i bet a lot on that fire
ah so
ah
my i have different experiences my life that i hold as one hundred percent and read has gotten up to attract that thing
systems

huh
thank you for writing that down so and my experiences are one i didn't wasn't looking for a teacher
i was looking for a new creative home i'd been an actor in new york and i just knew i was done and i think that probably was a whole art was the middle of an audition i went under and live in addition inside me and i could see their faces be so confused when i ended could i continued to do my monologue but i was as clearly done with being an actor in new
york and and i went looking i thought to become a theater director
and i was looking at different place i even got a job as the assistant in the assistant director for a whole year the milwaukee rap but it wasn't starting for awhile and i was thirty nine and i came to zen center because years before a teacher it said to me i needed to find some but posts
and so that i had lived in me at an acting teacher
and that day was stunning for me into where
and i mean can we get back that but i just knew this this was this was it this was by looking for so i'd never became a theater director this is the conversation i wanted to be and i knew that that first day was randy johnson and and the whole day i mean that i didn't meet grab until a few months later i knew he was the abbot's on auch
cabin and that when the first time i saw him to a dharma talk he reached out he wore glasses then you work glass glasses then and you reached out and the way you put on your glasses i burst into tears and that that's my teach
and because that for me my whole body to enlist listened and listened and listened in every fiber to how you responded to thanks to how you did thinks i just followed it and so on i'm speaking now cause i i don't feel completely that
way about you anymore so i wanted to say that and i still like this weekend
and i watched there's so many things whoa yeah but it's that that response i don't how to do that that my oh and and it i'm saying i think it has to me about the middle way that san francisco zen center did not have this structural support for my my practice
when i tried to engaged when the metaphor yesterday of the stucco at tassajara the japanese formula not sticking that was how i felt about suzuki roshi teaching where it was meeting us now here that it just wasn't
white wasn't quite the formula and and and i kept speaking and asking for it everywhere and i tried to do so much as a non resident so many offerings and so many try to work play with people and he didn't play back until i finally went around say
that's i'm getting a divorce and people laugh and because i married zen center and i know but i didn't ask them and they didn't marry me back you know there were some way the know think no one ever agreed to marry me back but i was going around like i was married to zen center and i've never been married back and and that was great to you came
to my house and you understood all that and now with my own trauma work which is the spit my finding spiritual bypass part which is i didn't even know i was running my life and driving me the pain and trauma and the language that now reb is bringing a lot into the nervous
custom and all of that has allowed me to start to be very different sensing inside and i didn't find that supported enough it zen center i didn't find collective supported apps and center there was
a lot of one of the other great things that i heard in this room which i really appreciate it from the mothers here bringing their lives was it was never a good idea you know really does not a good idea even when they're tiny to make on
but the can't ah
a one side a unilateral decision not human beings do not like unilateral decisions so that was a wall in me and i felt when i tried to do things at sense that are not in jap not in practice periods but in anything else as a community that there are a lot of
unilateral decisions and ah
so i kept thinking the problem was me and i needed to keep adjusting and then i forever i find i don't know but there was something about permission to look for
for i don't know to find it in me and the rat and look for it outside and to find structures
the art that model that and there are so i think that i'm praying hard time to say that
i'm
cause it's like it feel this is the risk you know that that there's models they pequot marlena were saying like i've sit with reverend with rev angel kyodo williams five days a week online because it embodies the zen practice piece for me the trauma peace and social justice peace and it just
embodies it and it's just not there it's more their from this weekend i can feel it's more but for me to say that out loud i want to say it's really scary
to say that the forms don't work for me anymore
thank you

can you like my wholehearted troops
elizabeth

lucid has just reminded me that the story that you shared young to and
from schaefer i have i don't remember the whole story but part of it was that one of the brothers was very diligent sitter was very much a new forms and i don't see if it was a subtle complaint or something but the other with maybe sleeping a ladder not not show
showing the forms with same way
and i know know who said what to the other but i have a feeling that it was the one who was may be sleeping that said to the one who is very sitting really diligently in in the forms and offering the wisdom of you know
just let it flow
from your heart so i just wanted to visit that story and light of what was left with
i'm offering don't care of the i thank you
could you hear what you say
career so she's she will say she was talking about the story that then the brought up or where somebody said
what brought in through the front gate is not the family jewels
just let it flow out from your breasts and cover the work the world
oh to the one who
amanda told more of the stories that in the early part of the that story one of them was diligently sitting on the other was like sleeping
and one who are sitting said to the other one you know you shouldn't be lazy and then when the other one says you you shouldn't be so uptight you shouldn't read here's what take a rest and they kept going back forth like that for a while in an end with the statement
don't you realize that what has brought in through the front gate is not the family jewels family jewels of course already in kinda house just let it flow out she was related in that to the issue of the forms

yeah when you think l what is the purpose of the forms it was the purpose of the fantasy when as so it's the boat for one was kind of attached to them and using them the other was not attached to them and wasn't using them but here also practice of forms a lot
and that in their dialogue led to this great awakening
used in the forms not using the forms it is is is we use the forms
what and we use them to discover attachment and then let go
sometimes we don't know where attached to the until we practice to forms
and then we use it in the forms are now a way we can discover and be compassionate to our attachment to the forms
and then then they really start working for us when we can have compassion for these forms which were practicing together including saying in the relations of form to forms are not working for me as that's part of someone's path is to say
performs are not working for me and then order we relate to that
and we can say the forms are working trip for us with or without attachment
and if you take the realization of like further in that one dogan
festival are teaching fm here is the way
so here the way and unfolds
and so
you've been a brace embracing an opening
to hear yeah that's a statement of faith
he here is the way here the way unfolds
and i thought experiment the experiment with i am
when you find your place right where you are practice occurs
realizing
a fundamental point
the way on votes from here
this is goggins statement of faith
and and his practice he bragged he practice finding he practiced finding his way here

and it
further if it's okay it's the the boundary is not distinct me and yet he responds to the inquiring impulse now yeah
i practice realization
like you make me
the boundaries is not distinct outside of a relationship and ah all of our relationships
and down
here is the place

and so elizabeth said the forms are not working
for me
nice could turn turn out
i'm not working for the formed
thank you for take care of the forms
during this retreat ringing the bells thank you for sharing she orchestrated are
our forms thank you
now
what attracted me resent had that i didn't see any forms and in what attracted me
but then i found out that what attracted me was the fruit of working with forms and you are the fruit of working with formed to count
so all of us have been working with these forms and we are the fruit of our work all of us are
you may not call yourself as and student and to if i talked to send students if i asked them
are you a buddhist a lot of and say you want to say yes to bed
they feel more comfortable saying that they're zen students
they don't necessarily want to say their religious
but these are as instruments i'm talking about talking to who are not comfortable
saying that there is an students
it's it's part of our
aren't being
that we have a lot going on israeli complex
i actually
when i was resistant with the bombs on is that
i was resistant to the forms
never used
oh i was a little bit am
i feel the start
yeah i am desist little bit strike on myself in and lived through systems always you know i noticed that is one part of my discovery whether myself this year that are you always persistent does the first thing and always like let's see and i think is spiral for you know
oh my background my formation my life my childhood acceptor as is always asking questions and as school i always got in trouble because of that or commenting or saying you know going again to grain against the grain so when i wanna say is that the for
as for me at the beginning a i drilled a resist them and i say where do i have to bow to these people why do i have to bow the you know and all these kind of year as she that i fell in the sandal it was very uncomfortable it was like why do you have all these you know hierarchy things that you have
to go through and then i start practicing exactly where they teaching meme say they are no preference and something happened and change because i trusting mine i say well is that gonna to this i have to trust it and i have to go into he
it and suddenly the resistant bay and i became so happy when or a yorkie and learning all these is like wow what a discovery for myself to be just been a little flexible and being open and taken out this resistance that sometimes can tell you is also
wait you down and i feel that is questioning about the world about what's happening what to do what is the right thing source sometimes heavy so is some kind going to the second circuit the compassion to be free for this is also give you like this too
rent to go back maybe to the first and gave me some breeds and been end appreciate that be beaten all of you and i just want to say that i haven't haven't the same issues
and you're very very courageous because i know is all the people feeling the same in yeah same no here no no in people here but around the community so thank you you are being very courageous and will love you i love you i mean sorry the top for all of you who am i love in a way of
the body but i love you thank you thank you rep who

tina

so listening to what everyone has commented on before me in
the many years of practice with pretty much everyone in the room and taking in all the information about compassion
what comes to my mind is an underlining
i don't want to say seen but a feeling that i have of
do you care too much
or too little
is is what i'm thinking right now of when i'm listening to everyone speak
thank you

whoa
you

so maybe i'll start with a ribbed story
i'm
i actually haven't been very present in the sanga
for maybe about ten years
i'm about ten years ago i started exploring a different path and a member in docusign i shared it with wrap and i shared that
i was hesitant about it because i believed in the path of vertical practice of going deeper and deeper
and his response was
you know jude some time he said judy i don't think subdued now you know judy sometimes when you're digging a ditch
it's better for the shovel to start going horizontally in order for it to go deeper

huh
so i've continued to practice strongly
mostly in a different form
though never
then has never left me and ah

and i think one of the biggest things that
occurred for me as i really got how i had to love myself in all of the afflictions which seemed pretty strong
and
somewhat recently i don't know maybe a year or so i don't know how long i've really am
there's been an opening that i started to really get that on the same profound level with other people and
so coming up here the thought of coming up here
i was excited i was excited about being with a group of people and
we all having our own afflictions and
and so it's been really beautiful
everyone coming forward and i really there's many things i appreciate about europe and one of them is that you have been weaving a sanga
hum
with open heartedness
and m
so i love to see the manifestation of it has exhibited this weekend as a drop in the bucket by the ocean might be more poetic creases
i think that's all i i would like to say so thank you
shake it all show susan
if it can wrap my scarf
before what if anyone is fun
i jumped
we are not we acknowledge your job
thank you

when linda first came in sat down i think she didn't recognize me teach you this is an experiment is just as an experiment in in talking about me and you
and i recognized you immediately
from this story that i'm forty or fifty fifty a lotta years ago in a different lifetime we sat together at san francisco zen center and i was so i am so happy to see you here and strangely appearing
i'm
and then as use as you're told her story i remember part of my story is at a certain point
i thought i was walking away from zen practice and you
but this story has a different idea and even my telling of the story just as doesn't seem quite right and the odd thing is here we are in this room together i wouldn't have predicted this particular storyline
i feel like i know you less than ever and
this self
it
it feels like there's a little more spaciousness here
and i feel like i don't know how these stories are gonna turn out

thank you
it's just take care right on
team
black

hum i like to express my question and my wish like
i wished we would even speak in our languages in more of a neutral form like i am a student
i'm not a student of zen i'm not a student of ha siddha yoga i i'm not a student of you know any teacher but i'm i am a student
so attaching or friendship like my zen friends or my siddha yoga friends or my family friends my ah
there has been friends
i think or adding anything to friendship
or adding anything to student
it causes separation it brings are not intimacy because it created a this and that so my wish is that our language would be more ah
troll more simple as possible
reminds me of
i think of a newspaper headline when
pope benedict just became pope
ha
cardinal ratzinger right
the headline was statement from new pope this friendship is the door
and i thought it just take away the this and i'm totally with you
friendship is the door
but he said this
and i thought was too bad it was so nice put up at this
the
sleek

i just wanted to save before i forget that yes please don't i was going to see how we bring it up perfectly care of it and bring it up here it's want to say that i think do we have a schedule to meet with fred samson we do
so at eleven o'clock if you did v at the beginning we just want to say hi to friend so anybody that wants to comment at eleven and be included in that grading to fred
can we don't know it's going to work
but
going to tried to them to say hi to this person who would most of us met him here and we've been friends with him for twenty or thirty years and
with i think they are busy
very supportive of him to do that
john says it's read but it seems to be working
did you want to talk to mount turn around with face the other people are just want to talk to me
i'm either way no i want to talk to you
but i know everybody now can hear me
in this moment i have found myself not feeling cold hearted
i don't think i reached a threshold and it was a ah
and so i didn't you know i thought well maybe i could take care of myself by by leaving but then i thought that will be that's a pretty abrupt as dirt or bypass that i can be has a fair to but
that's okay
so it's how did how to take care of that in you know in a group of people that i care about and and it's not that i'm
an empathetic with anyone's offerings it's just i felt for full i'm dan
thank you
did you say that wholeheartedly
hmm i have a bit of regret about that are a bit that may regret that you didn't feel wholehearted
at the to the regret makes me feel not how wholehearted and my statement
so you regret telling us that are you regret a moment of feeling not and
i regret having to say that yes oh i guess that you regret having to say it yeah it is the thing that

so we have this practice com confession and you can say regret
hmm that a practice for wholeheartedness so you confessed a lack of wholeheartedness
and again so if if i confess my lack of practice
i feel regret for the lack of practice but i do not feel regret that i can craft
hey okay but i'm with you i know that i feel i feel not regret i feel wholehearted about regretting that i wasn't wholehearted
the regrets part of the wholeheartedness so i won't want to do you grew with that might talking you into bed
but but i also don't want you i want the uniqueness of you to also survive
but it's interesting you said regret because
i thought maybe you were sent you are confessing this lack of wholeheartedness and you have some regret over the lack of wholeheartedness
maybe you don't
i think i wish i could expand my abilities with wholehearted necessary because if i don't but i do is a you know i catch berry i and that roll my eyes or something that's very distressed
painful to the horse did you hear you can do you want to expand your ability to be wholehearted for the last can i do too i want good for you and for me
and the path of expanding my hardiness is
strewn with moments of a lack of wholeheartedness
and noticing it and feeling since
sorrow about lack of wholeheartedness so i we become wholehearted by noticing lack of wholeheartedness and feeling that that isn't really the way we want to live
we want to be wholehearted in this life but
realizing that involves noticing that were not sometimes
and it also involves remembering that that we want that
so you remember you want to right and you notice sometimes you don't
and confessing it and feeling sorrow about it
his is part of that path of realizing it
the word repentance of the basic meaning of the word repentance is sorrow
sorrow about our lack of wholeheartedness
that's the main thing we're repenting lack of intimacy
i i i veered away from the intimacy i'm sorry
i wanna be so again on our path the intimacy and a whole this we're going to note with most of us will notice quite a few moments of lack of wholeheartedness and lack of intimacy
and then the medicine for that is to acknowledge it and if we feel sorrow to feel the sorrow
so thank you for noticing that thing called lack of wholeheartedness
and thank you for telling me about it and
yeah
thank you for listening to it and relating to it

nice getting to that time when i'm about ready to let you go have breakfast also trying to mention that
this question how do i know that i'm whole hard that's part of being wholehearted to how do i know the rhyme
that i'm
that i'm internet
i would say when you are wholehearted
you don't need to know the your hearted
but doesn't mean that if your whole harder you wouldn't ask the question
bring your whole hearted
you don't need to know anymore when you're intimate you don't need to know your intimate
when the microphone doesn't work anymore you give it to palm
and paul paul will help
it's working but why
works it works at it doesn't work now
guess so we have
we have
there's ten minutes before tangy so we'd like to go to breakfast now

okay leon
this is an announcement to
generous inclinations
be languishing in our sub conscious
i will expound upon
i feel
as i became intimate with about

done with college
oh
supporting these kind of experiences
and for you to
for your part in ah these experiences so i encourage us all to remember the donna box
thank you thank you leo know is an unprecedented announcement
the uniquely vionic

when with the topic
sneaky know what about dunaway to us on that the show with the wheel of fortune
know what her name is there was a show cause of the wheel of fortune and donna was on it's actually her name was actually and a way but i can't even be like and when the person was speaking she will go like this
the and he had many every time a great new outfit
still running
it is
i'm sorry and i watch while i said to have we ever out again this story and of it these never break out that way it was
he's so embarrassed
so he cannot believe we watch
it's healthy
but but what about van nuys she'll be so pleased to know that you're watching
seat as much change see that as more edgy what is reputed the
tiles
wow
and i don't know never seen it
i missed out
i hope i can i get and get it on youtube road
for much i would like to
palmer to back
you'd like to express thanks to the people who have cooked and served okay
thank you very
so you ready for brunch all right
brunch it is

i think i need some brunch