Good morning. Good morning. Today I'd like to talk about training in radical politeness. Radical in the sense of very basic and also radical in the sense of revolutionary. And in the sense of the reverse, the reverse of the way we usually are in regard to ourselves and others. So I want to talk about turning around and going in the opposite direction from everything we usually do, and going in the reverse to all of our usual relationships.

[01:22]

There's lots of good things to do in the world and quite a few not-so-good things to do, but in order to actually realize how free we really can be, I propose that each of us must make this complete turnabout. My heart is happily beating as I tell you that. Beating in the sense of, oh, hi, you in the sense of afraid of what might happen. anticipating wonder.

[02:48]

So I didn't plan on reading this exactly, but here it is. This is the first elegy of Rilke. Who, if I cried out, would hear me among the angelic orders? And even if one of them suddenly pressed me to his heart, I should fade in the strength of her stronger existence. For beauty is nothing but terror we are still just able to bear." And while we adore it so is because it serenely disdains to destroy us. Every angel is terrible. So I feel in a sense I have called up in myself a terrible angel this morning.

[04:12]

the angel of turning the world upside down. Last week we had a ceremony here, which we sometimes call the priest ordination ceremony, but literally it means a ceremony of attaining liberation, attaining the way. And the first step in the ceremony for these people was to shave their heads, to cut their hair off as a symbol of letting go of worldly relationships. But letting go of worldly relationships means that you turn all your relationships upside down. It means that you give up all the ways that you've been doing everything.

[05:17]

And that's the first step in attaining liberation on the spot. Sometimes they talk about turning away from the world. but in a feeling is of abandoning the world. And I don't want to say that that's wrong or anything, but another way to say it, instead of turning away from the world, reversing the world. Instead of turning away from worldly relationships, change. Reverse. go the unnatural way. So this is like when the Buddha Shakyamuni left the palace and

[06:37]

reversed the world and practiced his wisdom heart. It is like when he left the palace and entered the mountains. And again, sometimes they say he turned away from his obligations to his parents. But again, I would say he reversed his obligations to his parents. Reversing obligations to your benefactors and practicing your wisdom heart, your own wisdom heart. This is a great effort and it is doing nothing from the point of view of what you have been doing almost all of your life.

[07:59]

It is a very energetic state. and it is doing nothing. For example, a friend of mine told me about her father in his late years. She would go visit her father in his own house. And her father thought that he was not in his own house. He lived in the Bay Area, but he thought he was in Reno, Nevada.

[09:04]

His wife was quite upset at his attitude, at his opinion that he was in Reno. The daughter visiting considered the possibility that maybe this wasn't so bad. It's quite natural to try to get him to change his story and realize that he's not in Reno, but he's actually in Mill Valley or San Rafael.

[10:32]

Somehow I have this feeling that the importance of this example has not yet sunk in. Maybe it will later. I don't want to accuse anybody of being in a similar state. But even if somebody was in a similar state, even if somebody in this room thought right now that they were in Reno, then I would propose to consider

[12:01]

I would propose considering being really polite to the person and considering that there might be some merit, not so much in their opinion, but because there's not that much merit in the opinion that you're in Green Gulch either. I mean, it's not that big and helpful a thing to think you're in Green Gulch right now. But to appreciate someone or appreciate yourself or maybe somebody else, yourself, when you have such strange opinions, to let yourself be the way you are. This simple thing is... for most of us, for most of the time, is a radical reversal.

[13:09]

It's called turning the light around and illuminating the self. It's called learning the backward step. In practicing Zen, some people say that the essence of practicing Zen is learning manners, learning forms. And again, another story which I heard recently is about a little boy who went to visit his aunt. His aunt. And they were having... lunch or something, and after dinner, I think the aunt served the little boy some dessert.

[14:17]

And I don't remember exactly, but I think he maybe had dessert, and then he decided he'd like to have seconds. So he reached over to get himself seconds. And the aunt said... well, you should ask for seconds rather than just serving yourself. And the little boy got upset because he said, at home, my mom just lets me have seconds if I want it. She lets me just, if I want something to eat, she lets me just go get it to eat. And the aunt said, well, that's okay, except... you need to be concerned about the others. And the little boy said, what others? There's just you and me here. And the aunt said, well, you need to learn manners.

[15:26]

And the little boy said, well, why? And... My friend told me that he told this story to some people and they said, you know, it was right for the aunt to teach this little boy these manners. People need to learn manners. It's right to teach them. And I feel that certainly it's true. People need to learn manners and it's right to teach them. But how can we teach people things while simultaneously being polite to them. How can you teach people mathematics, table manners, how to drive a car or ride a bicycle or enter a meditation hall or do meditation? How can you teach people these things and be radically polite?

[16:30]

realizing that if they never learn what you're teaching them, but you convey to them your respect for them, that maybe that's the education that's most important. I mentioned this before, is that one time someone asked Suzuki Roshi's wife, who was a principal of a kindergarten in Japan, a kindergarten associated with a Buddhist temple, they asked, what's the most important thing to teach children? And she put her palms together and she said this, teaching people to bring their palms together and bow.

[17:39]

So you can teach children, okay children, now bring your palms together and bow. But the most important thing to teach them is not just to bring their hands together and bow, but to do that yourself to them. Emerson said, the secret of education is respect for the pupil. Now you might think, well, that means this is a nice pupil, this is a nice, intelligent, lovely child, and I'm going to teach it this. But again, that's not radical politeness. Radical politeness is, this is a nice student, and I don't know what radical politeness is even, myself.

[18:45]

It's not even to decide what they're going to be taught. I don't know anything about horses, really. I haven't worked horses a lot, but I read a book about training horses one time, and the horse trainer said that horses at a certain age know how to do everything that horses ever know. No human being teaches them any of these things.

[19:50]

They know how to walk, They know how to stand. They know how to trot. They know how to gallop. They know how to canter. Walk, trot, canter, gallop. Is there anything else they do? And stand? And lie down. And eat. And jump. These are things horses know how to do at a certain age. Before that age, they do not know how to do these things. The job of the trainer is not teach the horse how to canter and how to walk. They know how. That's what the trainer said. What the trainer has to do is learn how, basically with her hands and with his feet or his legs, how to tell the horse which of the things the horse knows how to do that the trainer wants the horse to do. But really it's not

[20:53]

the training of the horse. It's the training of the trainer to develop hands that can tell the horse what the trainer wants the horse to do. Once the horse gets the message, the horse will usually do the thing which it can do. It wants to do one of these things. It's actually dying to do one of these various things which it knows how to do. It just wants to get the message of which one is available. But if the trainer doesn't know how to tell the horse with her hands, if the horse doesn't get the message, the horse actually feels confused and either does something else because it wants to do something or, yeah, does something else. I propose that the usual way of understanding the world is that the horse or the person or the plant or whatever animal or the landscape does not know what to do, and we have to tell it.

[22:09]

Rather than it knows what to do, and we have to find a way to tell it to do what it knows how to do. If we expect children to do certain things before they are able to do them, we will simply, they will not be able to do them. If we tell them at the time they can do them, they will do them. But to tell a child to do something when it doesn't want to do it is not a time when it can do it. a child maybe know how to walk to tell it to walk in a direction that it's not ready to walk in because it actually wants to go in another direction it simply cannot unless of course you abuse it then somehow magic happens and people will do things that they somehow don't seem to want to do but really they still do what they want to do but now they do what they want to do under the condition of being abused

[23:34]

of being coerced, of being oppressed. Do we have time to be polite to children? Well, I don't know. Another radical upside-down approach to life would be to have time to be polite to children, to trust them and respect them. And the meditator, who might be you, yourself, to trust yourself, Now, if you have some opinion of yourself or of your meditation practice, this might be something like thinking that you're in Reno, Nevada.

[24:59]

Thinking that you're in Reno when you're in Marin or thinking that you're in Reno when you're in Reno is just thinking you're in Reno. This is not Buddhist practice. This is just a thought. Based on that thought that you're in Reno, if you're in Reno, you can walk out the door and find a casino. If you're in Novali and you walk out the door, you'll have a hard time finding a casino. Such thoughts and actions are not Buddhist practice. They're just thoughts which lead to actions. Buddhist practice is to respect people who, when they're in Marin, think they're in Reno, and who, when they're in Reno, think they're in Reno. just like to respect yourself, if you perhaps are someplace meditating, thinking something about the world or yourself or somebody else, thinking about that, and perhaps thinking about that in your usual way, your usual way, some usual way, some completely usual, familiar way.

[26:25]

That's just going on. Buddhist practice starts with radically being polite to yourself at that time. And being polite, radical politeness, is not your usual type of politeness. It's not even saying, well, isn't that cute? He thinks he's in Reno. Or, it's okay that he thinks he's in Reno. It's all right. Leave him alone. It's not a big problem. I propose that that's not radical politeness, that's just being condescending. If a teacher of meditation meets a student who comes and proposes this kind of meditation or that kind of meditation or this is what's going on and that's what's going on and it doesn't sound like what that teacher thinks meditation is supposed to sound like or look like or smell like, to tolerate it is, of course, good.

[27:33]

But to be polite, this radical politeness is that I'm talking about something deeper than that. I'm talking about taking a completely different attitude towards this than you usually would. Now, to try to take a completely different attitude is not a completely different attitude. That's just your usual thing. Another example of the way you usually think when you try to do something backwards. Actually taking a completely different attitude means that you let go of your usual attitude and see what comes. This letting go of My usual attitude is what's called practicing my wisdom heart, training my wisdom heart, my heart of wisdom, my own.

[28:49]

And my own is very, practicing my own wisdom heart has something to do with reversing my attitude about everybody else. All day long, every person I meet, I have an attitude. To let go of that attitude is the deepest respect I can offer to anyone. To be unattached to my attitude towards each person I meet is the greatest offering I can give to that person, is the greatest act of respect, and is the most difficult thing for me to do. To think that you're swell is not so difficult for me. It may be a little harder than to think you're not swell, but sometimes it's hard to think a person's not good because you think they are. This is, again, the usual way. And our mind will continue to be this way, and it won't stop being that way.

[29:58]

It will continue thinking people are good and bad. And sometimes we'll sometimes not be so sure whether they're good and bad, but it will continue to judge, judge, and judge. But the wisdom heart is not judging anything. The wisdom heart is the nature of judgment. And the nature of judgment is that it comes to us by all things in the universe. Our judgments aren't under control even. So that's why we won't stop judging. We are, what do you call it, puppet judges. But to let go of the judgment which I must make moment after moment, to let go of that is really being polite to a person.

[31:21]

It's to have no judgment of someone and is not particularly polite. It's, again, you're just at the moment, maybe, puppeted into not having an opinion, not having a judgment. Such situations are possible because sometimes, although you're not judging this person, you're judging somebody else. So sometimes there are little gaps in our judgment of people because we're judging something else. So you can look in someone's face and be judging your own you know, your own makeup. But anyway, with regard to what you are regarding to let go of your judgment is what I'm talking about as reversing your worldly relationships. It's radical politeness to whatever you're aware of. And this is a big effort.

[32:29]

It's really hard to do that because you have to be right there at the judgment. You can't let go of the judgment sort of slightly someplace else. You have to be right there. If you catch yourself at judging, And, of course, all of our judgments we have some adherence to. To catch yourself there, you can let go there. And when you do that, you realize that all the practices of the Buddha way have been completed.

[33:39]

It's all over. Everything's done. You don't have to do anything else. And then the next moment comes when something's happening again and you have to do the same practice again. So we are non-stop busy beings driven by judgments, driven by beliefs and values, which we will continue to have. And to try to stop that would be very impolite and it will be completely unsuccessful. We have been oppressed and abused and wounded by other living beings who tried to get us to be some other way and we do the same thing to ourselves because that's what we learned.

[34:48]

That's what our education has been. Get these people to be the way you think they should be. Get yourself to be the way you think you should be. Make yourself into a good person. Of course we should make ourselves into good people, but the way to do it is not by trying to make ourselves into our idea of a good person. I say this because I see that it doesn't work on myself or on other people. What I see works is to recognize that our mind works this way, that it's trying to make us and others into good or bad people, but usually trying to make them into good people or better people, to recognize that we're doing that all the time, and because we have such respect and we're so polite

[35:53]

We drop that. And in that dropping we become closer and closer to the wisdom heart. And then we can take this wisdom heart into the world and we can train horses and train people at driving and train people at mathematics and train people at ZenForms basically from the point of view of not doing anything to them, but just assisting them in what they want to do, offering this total reversal of our usual approach to ourselves and others. I don't know where I got the idea, but I somehow got the idea at a certain point that it would be a wonderful thing to teach my daughter to ride a bicycle.

[37:18]

I think I might have got the idea from my wife telling me about her father teaching her to ride a bicycle. It's one of the few things that fathers can teach daughters. I don't mean to be pessimistic, but anyway. This is a thing that a father might teach a father because fathers being a little stronger physically usually than the mother are better, often better at holding bicycles with their hands so the daughter can get on and then running alongside, holding the back of the feet, stabilizing it. Now they also have training wheels for that, but this is something that a father can do. And somehow the idea came to me that it would be wonderful to be there at the moment when the girl learned how to ride the bicycle and took off into the big highway.

[38:24]

So starting from a certain age, I tried to get my daughter to practice riding bicycles. She didn't want to. And I got a nice little bicycle for her. And it was a used bicycle. And I painted it red. And I painted the hubcap silver. And I went and bought her a little extra nice padded seat and got new handle grips and gave it to her for Christmas and tried to get her to ride it. And she tried but gave up quickly. And then I tried on another occasion and another occasion and she just did not want to ride the bicycle. I kept the bicycle near the car so when I gave her rides places I could say, you want to ride the bicycle? She said, no. I was not judging her like saying, oh, she's a bad girl or something, but I was frustrated in my attempts

[39:38]

But one day she came up to me and she said, okay, you can teach me how to ride a bicycle. And so we went to the park. She was now a bigger girl, about, I think, eight. We went to the park and she got on the bicycle. It was now a bicycle without training wheels. I held the back of the seat. And she started pedaling and I ran alongside of her. And she was, first I think I helped her steer a little bit too, holding the back and steering. And finally she could steer and pedal with me holding the back and we're running along like that. And then she said, okay, you can let go now. And she took off. And she drove off. And it was the feeling I had when I saw her do that was as good as I expected it to be. Just witnessing it was really so wonderful, worth all the waiting.

[40:52]

The fact that I could assist her made it a little bit more wonderful. But today I say the way I mainly assisted her was by not rushing her. by doing it on her schedule. I was a little bit pushy, but that was not so good. That's the part where she didn't need that, really. But the fact that I let her wait until basically she was ready to ride. She started riding when she knew how to ride. And before that, she didn't want to practice. She didn't want to practice riding before she knew how. She started when she knew and wanted to, and she did it. And that was just a great lesson. And I didn't love her any more after than before. And I didn't imply to her that I would love her more after than before, and I didn't. It made no difference. I didn't respect her more or after, before or after, more or less.

[41:58]

But I did get this experience of being with her when she learned something. You know, they have these different kinds of schools now, like Waldorf School and Montessori School, where they don't teach kids how to read at the time when some parents think they should be taught. And then they learn later on some other schedule. And it's scary because they wonder, will they ever learn? They're sort of learning later than I did. And then suddenly they pick up the book and start reading. Anyway, we learn riding bicycles at a certain age and we learn other things at a certain age. But what I mean by practice is not the learning of those things at a certain age.

[43:10]

What I mean by learning the wisdom heart is this attitude towards our learning rate. And when I first started teaching, I had lots of attitudes about the rates at which people should learn things. And basically, fortunately, people had the strength to stand up and say, you know, I'm not learning it at your rate. Matter of fact, I don't even want to learn it ever. And I pushed a little bit, but fortunately, mostly I gave up and changed my style to helping people learn what they want to learn. Now I try to get them to tell me what they want to learn, and they won't even tell me that. I have to wait until they're ready to tell me what they want to learn, even. I have so many things I'd like to teach, but they don't want to learn them.

[44:18]

What they want to learn is, will I let them not learn anything? Shit. Do I respect them enough to let them be the way they are? Which is to a great extent. That they're being a way which is saying, will you let me be this way? Which I'm being this way because I know you don't like this way. To see if you respect it. I'm telling you, I'm in Reno. Do you understand? Can you respect me telling you that? not condescend, but really respect and love me for saying that, not for saying that, but while I say that. Do you realize who I am?

[45:24]

Do you see me? Yes? Well, how about this form? Do you see me even now, while I'm doing this? Because it is you. I want you who have so much to teach me to give up your idea of what you have to teach me. Because you have so much to teach me, I want you to give all of that up because you're most interested in seeing me and when and what I'm going to do If you have nothing to teach, you have nothing to give up teaching, then not forcing people to learn stuff is no great gift. But when you feel you have a lot to teach, giving that up is the greatest gift.

[46:28]

So today, yesterday, we started a three-month practice period at Tassajara, down in the mountains, Las Padres National Forest, in the snow. And today, this afternoon, we will start a six-week practice period here at Green Gulch. A time for people to deepen their faith in their buddha nature in their enlightened nature deep in their faith that all you have to do is uh... completely respect what's happening and respected so much you don't even try to figure it out.

[47:46]

You just stand in awe or sit in awe of what's happening. If you try to figure it out, then maybe if you understood then you could respect it, right? I got a postcard that said, it's from a conservation group, it said, we will only conserve what we love. We only love what we understand. And we will only understand when we are taught. I think that's, I'm close to that. But I think the thing to be taught, which helps us understand so we can love, so we can protect and conserve, the teaching primarily comes by this reversal, by letting go of our stuff.

[49:04]

When we are that way, we will understand and we will love. But really, it is first love that causes this reversal. And this reversal leads to understanding. And this understanding leads to understanding love and leads to really conserving and protecting all beings. Because, of course, we will conserve, protect, nurture, sustain beings that we really love. But this love is not our idea of love. It is a love that comes after we gave up our idea of love. This beauty, you know, this beauty, we can barely stand it.

[50:10]

It's really difficult. So I'm going to go away now to the mountains. I'm going to go into the mountains and I'm going to try. to reverse all my attitudes. I'll try to give up my ideas of practice down there, try not to force those people to do what I think practice is. I'm going to try to figure out who they are and what they want to do. Of course, fortunately or unfortunately, there are some other people down there who will, you know, keep them in line. But there is a possibility that you will hear stories of anarchy down there. You know, I just, I don't have very many songs.

[51:13]

So I have to repeat them. I'm really sorry, sort of. So I'm going to do a... Do you have a song? No, you're leaving. Okay. I have a song which I've done before, so I'll just do this one again because I know this one, sort of. Oh, I can see you with this, but I can't read this. Okay, so this is called Old Man River, okay? Okay. Please forgive my out-of-tune voice. Please sing with me. Old Man River, that Old Man River He must know somethin' but don't say nothin' He just keeps rollin'

[52:23]

He keeps on rolling along. He don't plant taters, he don't plant cotton, and them that plants them is soon forgotten. But Old Man River, he just keeps rolling along. You and me, we sweat and strain. Body all aching and wracked with pain. Tote that bodge, lift that bale.

[53:31]

Get a little drunk and you land in jail. I gets weary and sick of trying. I'm tired of living and scared of dying. But old man River, he just keeps rolling along. Good morning.

[56:35]

Welcome to Green Gulch on a non-rainy day. I hear there's another big storm moving in, so this is a nice break for us here. We have one event going on here today. We actually have two. One which is, as the abbot mentioned, is the start of the practice period here this afternoon. And the other event is a jizo ceremony for children who have died. And that is being run by Yvonne Ran. And at the present time, it looks like it will happen right here in the zendo at 2 o'clock today. The garden, which is where it was originally planned for, is too wet and too muddy at this time. And unless it dries off a lot in the next two hours, it will be right here. So if you are going to come to the ceremony, please make sure you've registered with the office and then the entrance into here will be like it is during the day. It'll be through these doors up here by me on either side.

[57:41]

Next week, Yvonne Rand is also doing a workshop called Anger and the Spiritual Path with Mike Port. And that's a weekend-long workshop. Starts Friday evening and runs through Sunday afternoon. And again, you would need to register for that in the office if you're interested. And then next week on Saturday, Daniel Green, who is the head of the farm, is teaching a class called Principles of Sustainability, which is basically the teachings about how to keep your farmland or a small garden that you're dealing with vegetables, how to go into, of course, we're in the winter and at the quiet time of the growing season, and how to actually work into the spring and then into the summer. And that's next Saturday, 10 to 6. And if you're interested for that, please sign up for that again in the office. Or you may call the office and do it through the phone. And then next Sunday, we start the series of our classes again.

[58:48]

And next Sunday morning, Wendy Johnson will start a class, The Life of the Buddha. And Lee Dubaris, whose class in our quarterly is scheduled to start next Sunday, actually will not start until the following Sunday. So his is starting one week later and one week longer. And Lee's class is the Mahaparanirvana Sutra. And then Tuesday evening, Norman Fisher's class starts, Sutras of the Pali Canon. And those are sutras from the early teachings of Buddhism. And they'll be Tuesday evening, 7.30 to 9. And you can register for that by calling the office or actually by coming to the class. So that's next Tuesday. And then Sunday afternoons, 1-15, there has been an ongoing sewing class with Maya Wender. So those of you who are sewing on Rakasu's, she is available every Sunday afternoon.

[59:52]

And then I have here an announcement from Lloyd concerning the lay group. And I do want to mention something. We've been trying to educate ourselves of how we clean this place up as we actually leave it. And so we've been over the last three or four weeks talking about how we take care of the chairs. So I want to add one more thing that we haven't tried before. You'll notice that there's two rows of cushions on each of these tons that are in front of me. But we sit with only one row of cushions. So the cushions that are against the walls actually need to be picked up. So what we want to try today is if you're sitting on a cushion that's against the wall, when you stand up, will you walk towards the back wall in that direction and take your cushion with you and we'll make a stack at the end of this tan so you don't actually have to take it off all you're going to do is carry it to the end and then where the actual last one is on both sides by the door we'll just take and make a stack right there and we'll see how that works out and the ones that are sitting on the front of the tons on cushions you don't have to do anything with those except fluff your cushion and just leave them in the middle

[61:13]

And the same is true on those cushions against the back wall there. Just take them and walk them towards the center and then leave them stacked right there beside the door. Okay? Let's just leave these for one thing at a time. Welcome to Greengilt. It's a beautiful day, and it's really important that you enjoy it. We have coming up some muffins, which were made this morning, and that will be on the deck. Following that, there will be a question and answer period. If you have something you want to hear more about or something unrelated, or if you just want to hear the interchange with REB in the Wheelwright Center. Following that will be lunch. There is, oh, excuse me, for the muffins, there is a $1 donation requested. And following all of this, there will be lunch, which is available, and that's a $5 charge for the lunch.

[62:21]

Before and during the things that are going on today, there are some bells that are rung and the Han hit to let people know it's time to come. There's a small group of us that get together on Sunday morning to do these things and it's kind of nice. I invite you to join us. There is room for more. We were a little tight this morning and some people are having to do more than one job. It's fun if you're intending to do the zazen here. There's even an additional benefit. You get a reserved seat. As you leave with the chairs, please carry them to the back. and stack them in the hallway just to the back of the Zendo. And I would like, if possible, to get five or six people to help pack them away. Could we get some volunteers, please? One, two, three, four, five.

[63:29]

Six. Great. Thank you very much. As you finally get out of here after chairs and zafus, you may notice something that the priests don't talk about much here, but the lay group is allowed to. That's the donation box. It really helps if you can find something to put in there. Five dollars is neat, more is neater, but whatever you have is very helpful. Thank you. Rev, you were talking about respecting students' signing and not pushing. And I was wondering if you'd comment about the value of pushing as well.

[64:36]

I know for myself that sometimes when I sit pushed, it's been very valuable in terms of my learning. So it kind of emphasized the more passive aspect of it. Thank you. Thank you. I don't mean this as passive. This is not passive. Sometimes the way of respecting the person is to push, but you don't push in a disrespectful way. You push because they ask you to push. But you don't push according to your idea that they're supposed to go someplace. You push because they come up to you and say, push me. And only then? Huh? And only then? Well, of course not. You make mistakes. And only then. Now, the way people are asked to be pushed

[65:39]

is not necessarily by saying, I want you to push me. Sometimes the way they ask you to push them is by running into you. Like, let's say I'm walking in this direction, and somebody is coming at me in this direction, and they come running at me, and they bump into me, they'll feel like I pushed them. But they ask for that by running into me. But many students ask to be pushed. They come in and say, please push me. Please be strict with me. They ask for that. And I say, OK, but you have to tell me what you want to do for me to push you. So if somebody says, I want to go north, and I see him going south, then I can say, didn't you just say you wanted to go north?

[67:02]

And then they say, oh, yeah, I did, thanks. And that can be considered a push, quite a push sometimes. Especially if somebody said they wanted to do something maybe kind of hard, and I'm reminding them of that. And when you tell a teacher that you want to do something, and then you're not doing it, at least the teacher can't see you're not doing it, and the teacher says, no, didn't you say this, and he reminds you of this, or she reminds you of this, you might feel quite a push. I mean, that might be... And just reminding might be a bigger push than them actually, like, to tell you to do something. Because they're not reminding you of what they want. They're reminding you of what you want. That's a very big push, because that's what you're about. So... Also, sometimes a teacher might just exemplify where you want to go or what you want to do. And they might exemplify it partly because you told them what you wanted to do and they thought it was a good idea.

[68:09]

So then they went and did it. And you see it and you go, wow. And you feel pushed by your own values, by your own inspiration. The biggest push that you can ever give anybody is to respect them as they are. Because you're pushing them towards their true nature. But you're not really pushing them, you're just reminding them to turn around and look at themselves and become free. But it's not really a push, it's actually a reversal. You spin them around. But if you push somebody before they're settled in a certain way, it's a waste of time. They won't be able to use it. So they have to sit there and say, I want this. You really want this? I want this. You really want this? I want this. Then you can say, well, what do you mean by that? And that might just... And you're not pushing them trying to do anything, but just naturally your interest and your intention and your attention to them will cause a push.

[69:20]

which will help them realize even more deeply what they want or where they're going. So I don't mean this as passive. It's very intense, it's very relational. Back and forth, back and forth. You receive something and you give it back. You give it back and you get something back. It's back and forth like this all the time. So your question, see, brought out another aspect of what I was saying. unfolded it another way, because you listened to me and you responded, and so we're doing this together. Some people come to me and say, push me, but they're actually saying, push me. And I say, okay, but there's nothing I can do. Other people come up to me and say, don't push me. And I say, well, you know, how don't you want me to push you? And they tell me exactly how they don't want to be pushed. And I don't do that.

[70:22]

But by doing that, they've just pushed themselves to understand more deeply what they don't want, which is what they want. Understanding what we don't want is very closely related to understanding and realizing what we do want. So we should be very clear, I do not want this. That's very important. If you feel that way, to be very clear about that. And if you're completely clear about what it is you don't want, you'll realize that you'll never get it. But to be pushing away what you vaguely sense you don't want is different from looking clearly at what you think you don't want, finding out what it is, and then being released. It's only the things we don't look at thoroughly that happen to us. But of course, since we don't look at things thoroughly, a lot happens to us.

[71:25]

So that's true too. So life is these two sides. One side is things happen to us because we don't look thoroughly. The other side is if you look thoroughly, they don't happen. You have to recognize those two sides of our life. Yeah? For a student trying to give a teacher feedback, it seems more complicated sometimes. The initial push is, I mean, the situation is sometimes a power differential. And if he sees that a teacher has a blind spot, it's very difficult to get it out somehow. Yeah. In some context. How can we all support each other to free that kind of situation up? I mean, even Mother Teresa must have something she doesn't do. I mean, it's like everybody will have something. And how to actually, from not the teacher looking at the student, but the other than the else, to offer a pushback.

[72:32]

Well, if you... Well, you said it seems more complicated. I'm not saying it's... I wouldn't say that it's... that I disagree with you. I disagree with you. I think it's equally complicated from both sides, that it's very complicated for teachers if they see some, you know... Where did you use? Shortcoming? If a teacher sees a blind spot on a student, it's maybe hard for the teacher to talk about it, too, because... if you talk about it in the wrong way, you may do something more damaging than not mentioning it at all. If a student sees a blind spot in a teacher, and the student mentions it without respect, it's equally damaging as a teacher seeing a blind spot in a student and mentioning it without respect. It's damaging both cases. For the student to relate to someone who they consider a teacher in a disrespectful way not only may hurt the teacher as the other person, but mostly it hurts you because you've now not respected what you respect.

[73:36]

For the teacher to not respect the student hurts the teacher because the teacher needs the student to be a teacher. So we always hurt back this way when we don't respect the other way because it's really because we don't respect ourself that we don't respect others. And so because we don't respect ourselves we project that out on others. There doesn't seem to be a problem for people not noticing people's shortcomings and blind spots. But how to express them in a way that's in the context of respect, this is hard for teachers and students both. The teachers are afraid of maybe hurting the students. The students may be afraid of hurting the respect that's growing in their heart or cutting the relationship. So we have to do this thing, we have to enter into this paradox from both sides.

[74:41]

Both sides have to enter the paradox of saying, I'm here and I'm listening to you. I recognize you and I'm here. This is paradoxical. To stand your ground and listen to the other. The teacher has to listen to the other, but the teacher can't give up her ground. It's unrealistic. The student has to stand her ground and also respect the teacher. Now, of course, it's because you respect the other person that you really want to stand your ground to that person. Because to stand your ground to that person, the person you respect, means you're standing your ground in the presence of somebody, somebody who is really there other than you. Somebody who you recognize as a real, as something autonomous and sovereign unto itself. But you are too. It's very tense. And that tense, that intensity, we have trouble standing.

[75:42]

It's that beauty. It's that terror. We can barely stand. Of the place where if we lose either side, we're sunk. If we don't recognize the other, we cannot realize who we are. If we recognize the other without asserting ourselves, we don't recognize, we don't realize ourself. It's while expressing ourselves and recognizing the other that we realize who we are. We realize our independence through connection with something we respect. But the easy way is to polarize, to go over toward just respecting and forgetting about this, not mentioning this, or to mention this and not respect or recognize that. But if you don't recognize that, you're all alone, nobody to recognize you, you can't realize your independence. It's very complicated, very difficult, and that's the place we have to keep going to that place, and that takes a lot of courage for both parties.

[76:52]

And you have to basically not talk about that there isn't time to do this. That's just an excuse. That's a lazy, cowardly excuse for not facing the way our relationships really are. And also we should be able to admit that we usually cannot face that intensity. And we crumble down on one side or the other. We take one pole or the other. But we have to go towards that place and assert ourselves and also listen to the other. When you were talking about your daughter with the bicycle, that was, the parent could relate to that, but the more difficult problem comes not so much in things like teaching how to ride a bike, but Just in, especially with today, a lot of single parents having, trying to establish a set of rules, a set of norms by which you can guide yourself and them and have them grow up as a normal, somewhat normal human beings.

[78:09]

It's impossible at the beginning, of course. But, you know, I have a problem with, holding my ground, trying to listen to the other side, and then finally a little bit and say, this is what you're going to do. As a parent, because there are certain time urgency problems, like they have to study now because the test is tomorrow. I can't just allow them to, or at least I feel I can't, to say, well, I'll study on my own time. Time is now, and other things like that. I have a difficulty putting all this into that kind of perspective. Well, that's the kind of perspective that we're having difficulty putting it into. So I also have one of those living in the house. And what I'm proposing is that if I actually stop in my tracks,

[79:14]

or spin on my spot, and I look at her and I really respect her, I may be able to enter into a discussion with her about her homework. but it is easy to just you know get into my god she's not doing her homework we gotta get her you know the time's running out the test is tomorrow gotta get her to do it i understand that or not even the test is tomorrow but the next two years are going to be over like that and then And so she said to me, she almost never asked me this, but she said, what are three things I could do to be a, and it's interesting, you know, every word she says is carefully chosen. She said, what three things could I do to make me a better baby, child, daughter?

[80:21]

She kind of stuttered from baby, child, the daughter, you know. And I said, these are the things I'd like you to do. I'd like you to find out what you want, to communicate that and other things you're doing to me, and to be more mindful. She almost never asked me, but she did ask me, and she remembered them. And so I say to her, you know, I say, if you don't want to go to high school, if you really don't want to go, it's okay with me. If you don't want to go to college, it's okay with me. I trust what you want to do. If you want to go out and get a job, if you want to go to, you know, to Broadway and try to get in a show,

[81:27]

Whatever you want to do, I'll help you do it. But please tell me what you want to do. What if they want to take drugs? Okay, let's have them tell me that when I ask them. If they want to take drugs, that's what they're going to do. So I guess you have to show me a kid who really tells me that they want to take drugs and for me to hear that that's really what they want to do and see what I do. I have never run into such a person who actually told me that that's what they wanted to do. Maybe there are such people that that's really what they would tell me. And do they need my help to do it? If they do, we'll see what I would do. But basically what she told me was she didn't know what she wanted to do. She has not been able to find out what she wants to do. She has not found it yet. So in the meantime, before she finds out what she wants to do, I say, what do you want to do?

[82:32]

Do you want to drop out of high school and get a job until you find out what you want to do? Do you want to go to this school you're going to, which is kind of a demanding school? And we're not going to send you to this one and transport you all that way and pay all this extra money if you don't want to be at this school. If you really want to transfer to a school that doesn't have high requirements, we'll consider it. But I actually would let her not be in high school if she wanted to do something else. But that's what she says she wants to do. Then I say, what kind of grades do you want? Do you want grades good enough to get by, or do you want grades good enough to get into certain colleges? And she hesitates to tell me what grade she wants, because if she tells me what grade she wants, then certain kind of work follows. But I guess what I'm saying is if I respect her enough I will have the conversation I need to have with her and I will not make rules exactly but make agreements.

[83:38]

And also making agreements we have to then not be trapped by those agreements. because naturally her spirit and mine want to become free of the agreements we make. But we need to make some agreements, probably, but maybe not. We'll have to see. So you feel certain things are necessary, I feel certain things are necessary, like, you know, just last night I was saying to her, or the night before last I was saying to her, you know, I know that you respect your mother, But if I watch the way you act, I don't think you act... I mean, you don't look like you're respecting her. It doesn't look respectful, the way you're talking to her. It looks like you're disrespectful. That's what it looks like. And I know that other kids are worse, you tell me, and I believe it, but that doesn't really cut it. I'm just telling you, I know that you do respect her, So that's not the issue. In other words, I don't tell her what she is.

[84:42]

I don't say, you respect your mother, you don't respect your mother. I think she does, actually, and she says she does. But I can say it doesn't look respectful to me. And I say in that context, then other things don't work or work a certain way. Namely, we don't feel comfortable with you going out all night tonight in the context of you not being respectful to your mother. We don't feel easy about it. And yet, somehow, if you're really respectful to your mother, if I see that, then I feel more comfortable about you going out. Somehow, it just works for me. But she can do whatever she wants all the time. I have no control over her anyway, I feel. I'm amazed that she goes along with it as much as she does. I really believe what I'm saying. I really believe that respecting the child is a miracle. Is a miracle. It would be for me if I could pull it off. you don't and you don't pull it off it is a gift from I don't know what to be able to respect another person it is whenever you respect somebody it's a miracle and that miracle can lead to other miracles you can come up with ideas to offer to a child

[86:12]

And the child is, I believe, they believe all beings are trying to find out from other beings, they're trying to find out, am I, the way I am, worthy of respect? Am I worthy of love as I am? Am I worthy of the support which I'm getting? I think we want to find that out. I think we want to find out, can I actually be what I'm going to do anyway? And receive support from all beings for that. And we try it primarily with people who we're really close to. We start with them. They want to know if we respect them. And that's really essential for them to find out who they are and become free. And the person that they most want this from is the person they respect the most.

[87:22]

And who do they respect the most? Us poor parents and teachers. Us, they respect the most. We're the best that they've got from their point of view. There may be next door a better parent, but they don't think that person's a better parent. They've chosen us. She's chosen you to be the person in some ways that counts the most or one of the main people anyway, one of the top three or something in the world that she wants love and respect from. That's your thing. And she wants to know, can I be this way and that way and this way and that way and would he respect me? But also you have to see her. Do you respect her enough to stop and look and see what is there? To respect in general or in theory is very unnerving. I used to hear my mother talking on the telephone to her friends, telling her friends about wonderful exploits and adventures which she was very proud of that her son did.

[88:34]

She was impressing her friends with this great son she had. She did have a great son, but the things she was telling her friends, I didn't do. She was telling them things I didn't do. It was her perspective. She didn't see me. Although what she was saying was very flattering. She didn't see me. And it was a mixed bag, you know. And you don't see people for free. You've got to work at it. You've got to open the little eyes and look in there and stop and listen and look and study. And you have to do the same thing to yourself. And if you won't do it with yourself, if you won't sit and look at yourself, then it shows that you won't do the same with others. And when you notice you're not doing with others, guess what? And that's the first step of Zen is to turn around and look here and find out that you don't really have time to look here.

[89:41]

You've got to get this guy to do certain things tonight. You don't have time to stop and say, hey, Tony, what's happening, man? What do you want to do? How are you feeling? No, you've got to get this guy to perform tonight, today. Get going. Don't have time to stop and think, what does he want? What's he want to do with the rest of his life or even today? Too busy. So I'm too busy to look at myself, I'm too busy to listen to my kids, and too busy to listen to my students. Listen, I know what you should do. You should do these things and get to work. Just like I say that to myself. Rather than stop for a little while and say, what do you want, Rev? What do you want to do this afternoon? And when I say that to myself, I feel real good. Not exactly good, even. I just get all warm and my body comes alive. If I can say it to myself, maybe I can say it to my daughter. She might be surprised if I say it to her.

[90:47]

And she might say, well, I want a totally loaf. And then stop again and say, hey, Reb, what do you want? Do you want a loaf? Is that what you want to do? And maybe I say, yeah, I do. Well, then maybe my daughter can, too. Maybe I say, no, I don't really want a totally loaf. And I'll check again. Maybe I'll never come up with that I want a totally loaf. Maybe I won't really think that's what my daughter means. But I won't call her a liar. I'll try to understand what she means because maybe this is code for something. One time when she was about three and a half, her mother went to France and I took care of her myself for two months. before her mother left, she said, get her off the pacifier. So I tried to get her off the pacifier. And she mostly used it at night at that point. So as night approached, she would say, I want my i'i.

[91:50]

She called him i'i. Can I have my i'i? So basically, when she asked for i'i, I would say...

[91:57]

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