So the story, the little short dialogue, which is case 43, is Le Shan came to Yanto and said, when arising and vanishing are unceasing, How is it? Now it says, then what? I don't like that, what then? What then, you know, like, then what, or what then? I think it's better to say, how is it, or how is it when arising and vanishing are unceasing? Or when arising and vanishing are unceasing, how is it? And I didn't... I didn't look up what that character for when is.

[01:13]

I'll look it up later. But anyway, when kind of means time. So when or at the time that arising and vanishing or unceasing, how is it? And Yanto shouts or scolds and says, who's arising and vanishing, is it? Or who is it arising and vanishing? So it's historic. And I feel a parallel between the koans in general, but this one in particular, and the study of the precepts. So I have these two classes, Monday and Wednesday night, and in both classes I feel like the first thing is you approach, well, you approach the wall, right?

[02:20]

You approach the wall. The wall is... On Monday night, the wall is a Zen story. On Wednesday night, the wall is the Bodhisattva precepts or Buddha. And you know, Zen practice is sometimes called wall-gazing. Jacqueline, there's a seat up here if you want to sit up here next to me or next to Linda. Sometimes Zen meditation is called wall gazing. In Japanese, it's mempeki, which actually means mem is faith and peki is wall. So people usually think it means that you...

[03:26]

that you face the wall, which you do. But another, you know, nuance there is that talking about, you know, making your own face into a wall or becoming like a wall yourself. Looking at a Zen story, looking at a story of Buddha, a story of awakening, looking at the precepts which are also trying to reveal awakening to us, in both cases we need to be like a wall in order to enter. Being like a walk is, I often call, being upright.

[04:34]

By last Saturday, I emphasized that another way to talk about this is as renunciation. So in the ordination ceremony, although we haven't been emphasizing this in the lay ordination, I just want to tell you that in both lay ordination and priest ordination, the beginning, the first thing is you're You invoke the presence and compassion of the ancestors. The main thing that happens after that is renunciation. So, what have you got to renounce? Well, whatever you've got, that's what you've got to renounce. Got thinking?

[05:39]

Renounce it. For a human being to become like a wall means you give up your human abilities. The natural working of our mind, fundamental working of our mind, is not really human or non-human. It's sort of non-human. Messing around with our mind is particularly our human, our human trip. So, in both approaching the stories and in approaching the precepts, We have to renounce everything that we should renounce.

[06:44]

And basically what we should renounce is all worldly activities, all messing around that we do with ourselves, all interfering with our life that we do, all kinds of exploitations that we become involved in concerning life. So in this story there's this arising and ceasing. So pronunciation means, in this case, that you allow arising and ceasing to be itself. But for us to be like that is like to be like a wall. So one of the subtleties of this story is that before Luoxuan came to Yangtze, he went to Xishuang.

[07:54]

And Xishuang basically said, you know, be like a wall, be like a dead stump, be like a dead tree, be like cold ashes. To be like cold ashes is like being like a wall. In other words, give up being a smarty-pants. So in a way, the instruction that I got from Shreshram is like what I'm encouraging us to do at the beginning of this story. So there's There's two phases, one which you sometimes hear about. One is renouncing worldly affairs, which is the same as be upright. And then the next phase is, after renouncing worldly affairs, then maintain the Buddhadharma. After renouncing worldly affairs, you can maintain the Buddhadharma.

[08:59]

after your hands are empty of all your usual concerns, they're free now to turn the Dharma wheel. And when you open your hands and let go of worldly concerns, it means you let go of the worldly concern of how to control. You let go of the worldly concern of, well, how am I going to turn the Dharma wheel? You know, if you're a person and you think, well, I've got to maintain the dharma, then you, as a person, you want, well, how am I going to do it? You want to know how. So, but it's a worldly, it's a worldly thing, it's a worldly concern to want to know how to practice. It's not a worldly thing, as I think you can tell, it's not a worldly thing to not be concerned with how to do something.

[10:13]

Do you understand? Any problems with that? That's not of the world. It's not of the world to not be concerned with what to do or how to do it. It's not a worldly concern when you don't any longer care whether you can do anything or not. Funny thing is that when we care about how to study a koan or how to be a Buddha, because we hold on to that and we care about that, we can't maintain the Buddha Dharma because our hands are full of worldly concerns. We can't, even if we take a hold of the Dharma wheel, we've got a bunch of stuff in our hands and we can't feel the Dharma wheel. We can't feel the the little bumps in the dharma wheel, which kind of indicate where to grip it.

[11:13]

If you're sensitive, the dharma wheel will tell you what to do with it. But if your hands are full of other concerns, which are so important to you, then of course you're basically saying, well, I'd like to turn the dharma wheel, that sounds good, but I've got these other things too, can I do them too? Well, then you put them either on the par with the Dharma wheel or even more important. Actually, more important because you won't let go of them even before you try to maintain the Dharma. So, first of all, renounce all concerns. And then maintain the Buddha Dharma. Renounce all concerns and then enter the story. So, Yantou didn't even ask Luosan... to renounce worldly affairs. Xueshuang did, told him to do that, but he didn't get it. I don't know exactly what happened. Another way to say this, for those of you who are somewhat familiar with Buddhist doctrine, is that first you renounce everything and then you enter the realm of studying cause and effect or dependent co-arising.

[12:59]

But if you try to study dependent co-arising while holding to something, you will be unsuccessful. The koan is about dependent co-arising. In this case, the koan is about the dependent co-arising of... What? Arising, vanishing. Arising, vanishing. No. It's not really about the dependent co-arising of arising and vanishing. Phenomena. Phenomena? No, that's the same. This idea of a person? No. No. No. Arising and vanishing are about all the things you all said. Okay?

[14:04]

When arising and vanishing... are unceasing. That means when the arising and vanishing of the self, when the arising and vanishing of phenomena, when the arising and vanishing of, what did you say? Yeah, the arising and vanishing. By the way, nirvana doesn't arise and vanish. So that's not right. But the arising and vanishing of samsara. Okay? All the things you said apply to arising and vanishing. But this story is not about arising and vanishing, ladies and gentlemen. Did you know that? Is it about awakening? Correct. This story is not about arising and vanishing, it is about awakening. This story is about the dependent co-arising of awakening. Awakening is not about arising and vanishing. However, studying arising and vanishing

[15:08]

is part of the path of awakening. The story is actually about an awakening and how the awakening dependently co-produced itself. So, in the world of samsara, birth and death, birth and death unceasingly in that world, how is it? That question is about the dependent goal arising of samsara, of birth and death, of phenomena. That's what the question is about. Yanto's answer is a response in the mode of the causation of awakening. The student asks the question about the dependent co-arising of the world, of how the world arises and ceases.

[16:14]

Nirvana doesn't arise and cease. Awakening doesn't arise and cease. The world does. The question is about that. The student puts this forth. The teacher has a response. The student putting something forth and the teacher having a response, this is a situation This is the dependent core rising of awakening. And there was awakening. So this story is about how awakening happens. And I propose that either Luangshan had already, you know, renounced worldly affairs, or Yanto's instructions helped him do that, while he simultaneously demonstrated the teaching which is necessary for his awakening.

[17:18]

Renouncing worldly affairs is not all that happens. There's renouncing of worldly affairs, and then something is revealed. Something is revealed all the time anyway, but when you renounce worldly affairs, you see it. Seeing it in renunciation is liberation. Yes? I guess the person feels that this is a very particular, and in some ways, awakening. Private? Yeah, given that Luoshan had had this question quite some time, so it was his private co-op. I mean, not that it isn't a question that we might... This was his private public case? Yeah. I mean, he'd been dealing with this for quite some time.

[18:18]

Right. He'd gone to a previous teacher, etc., etc. Right. So part of me feels that the intensity with which he held the question may, in fact, be part of what is dependently necessary for his awakening to occur. The question finds the teacher. But if this isn't our particular question at a given moment in time, I guess if I look at the koans as maybe helping us awaken, it's the first time that I felt it really would, it helps to have the same question as the koan puts forth. It helps to personally be carrying the same question that the koan puts forth. You mean that you would be walking around all week having the question? Yeah, or if I had it for, let's say, three months prior to when we looked at this koan, then I think... I might get something more from the picture of awakening that's going on, because that koan would have been in my body, the question would have been.

[19:32]

Yeah, I think that makes sense, that would be the case. But the three months that you would have had the question are not really three months that you would have had the question, okay? It's just that when you say three months of having the question, that's a kind of... gives us a feeling for how important the koan is to you right okay if you had the koan for one second with the kind of importance that you would have had the koan would be for you that you would work on it for three months the one second is all that counts And to have it for three months and then come up to after three months and have it half-heartedly in one second, it's not going to work. But three months gives an idea of the kind of effort you'd make, the kind of importance the koan would have to you. That's the kind of importance that the koan, I think, must have had for Luoshan.

[20:33]

Almost like really his main thing in life. If it's not your main thing, well, what is? Then that's your koan, and that's what you should ask about. That's you bringing yourself forward, whatever that thing is. So, if somebody else comes forward and says, how is it when rising and vanishing are unceasing, but that's not their question, as you said, it's not what they care most about, well, then they're showing themselves a little bit So if you show yourself a little bit, then the teacher can reflect you a little bit. If you show yourself a little bit and the teacher reflects you a lot, it doesn't work. The teacher should reflect half-heartedness with half-heartedness, which is a pretty dismal situation.

[21:41]

And the teacher would rather move on to something a little bit more interesting, but the teacher has to accept that her job is to reflect the student as she is, not as it would be more fun if she was. Like, you know, totally putting herself completely out there and putting out what is most important in her life. Now, this guy was somehow, you know, it could be somebody coming and saying, my baby's sick, what can I do? That could be the koan. If that was really... I mean, some people have sick babies, but that's not really what bothers them. So when they say, my baby's sick, it's still not necessarily the thing that is most 100% revealing themselves. But apparently, because of the effect, he was really into this question, and that was him. And so... the teacher could reflect back him, and therefore he could wake up.

[22:46]

So, yes, I think generally speaking, in fact, in common experience, if somebody works on a koan for a long time, I do find that they do care more about the koan than somebody who just worked on it for five seconds. But some people work on a koan for five seconds And they're as fully involved in it as somebody who's been working on it for three months. But working on it day after day is a way to kind of get a feeling for what it is for something to be important to you. And renouncing worldly affairs means, for example, to pick up this koan, you might still make this koan into a worldly affair. Like, for example, you might say, well, you know, maybe I'll get famous. Maybe a rebel will think I'm a hot student or something if I really, you know, go around thinking about this and I show him that, you know, I can prove by my intensity that I really do care about this.

[23:57]

So that would make it another worldly affair. But to be interested in something like this, really, as your primary thing, then that would mean renouncing worldly affairs. Because if you're practicing this, come on with no idea of getting famous or learning anything about Zen or getting enlightened. and yet you're still primarily interested in this story, then you're not a worldly affair anymore. You're kind of a... We don't even know what you are anymore. You're a renunciate. Yes?

[24:58]

Is any koan... going to be useful for every person, or are some koans... Is any koan going to be useful to... I'll say for me, is any koan going to help me wake up? Can any koan help me wake up, or... Yes, any koan can help you wake up. So it doesn't matter, any koan in this book... Right, any koan, right. particular focus of the koan is not important? I wouldn't say that. I would just say any koan can wake you up. Everything in your life can wake you up. And everything in every Zen book can wake you up. And everything in every Sufi book can wake you up. And everything in every magazine can wake you up. Everything can wake you up. But not everything is set out as a story of awakening.

[26:02]

So not everything is primarily set out in the world as a focus for awakening. Every koan is. But you may not today or this week or this year be able to dedicate yourself to any koan. You may only be able to dedicate yourself to one. I guess that's... As a matter of fact, you may not even be able to dedicate yourself to one. If you don't dedicate yourself to one koan, then no koan will work for you. But if you will dedicate yourself to the koan, then that koan will work for you. If you devote yourself to anything completely, it will work for you. anything. Now, it turns out that it's hard to dedicate ourselves completely to something.

[27:07]

It's hard to be totally devoted to something. Therefore, if you want to be totally devoted to something, it's good to be devoted to something where you can get some help being devoted to it. That's why a tradition is sometimes helpful Because if you're devoted to something in a tradition, then sometimes because it's a tradition, there's somebody who's, you know, there in the tradition waiting for you to come and devote yourself to it and help you devote yourself to it. So that person can point out to you, for example, can reflect your half-heartedness if you're half-hearted. So you may think, geez, I'm really working wholeheartedly. And the person might say to you, well, how could you say that if you were? And they might not be criticizing you or something. They just might actually be dumbfounded about how you would have time to talk like that if you were totally devoted to something. Do you know what I mean?

[28:13]

I'm really working hard here. Well, if you were, why would you be saying that? If you were, you wouldn't have to convince yourself. Plus, if you were, you wouldn't have time to be talking like that. You'd be too busy working hard. But, you know, the other person's not like saying, oh, you're really a lazy bum. They just don't get it, maybe. And they might say lazy bum, but they don't mean lazy bum. So, as a matter of fact, in many Zen stories, the student is 100%. And that evokes the teacher to say, you are a lazy bum. It's not the teacher's criticizing, it's like, There's only one thing I left I have to say to you. You know, there's nothing more I can do to you besides call you a bum. And you've done everything, you bum. In other words, the teacher's so freaked out by the intensity of the student's practice that they talk like that. But that's reflecting the student's totally freaked out too. totally freaked out over, like, a koan.

[29:17]

Like, I mean, like, blowing circuits over a koan, like, 24 hours a day, like, it's the most important, it's like more important than breath, more important than breath, more important than life, because life is not life to us. Life is, is something, you know, is a koan. Life is life after you renounce life, that's life. So, if you can be totally devoted with the help of the Buddha's ancestors, you can be totally devoted to a story or anything that somebody in a tradition will help you be totally devoted to. It could be tennis, but then you need a tennis teacher, I think. Because you say, I'm really working hard at tennis. And the tennis teacher says, well, if you are, blah, blah. Why don't you try this then? Oh, no, that's too much. What do you mean? I don't want to do that. Yes. But I find the things that I'm totally devoted to, and I don't have to try to be totally devoted.

[30:21]

I either find them or I'm not. It's very simple. I either am or I'm not, and I can tell from the way I behave. If you can tell, then that's... I don't know how you can tell. If you can tell, then you just contradicted what you just said. I don't know about tell, but I mean, I think this... I think you're right about either you are or you aren't. I agree. But this telling business, I don't know about that. Okay. Do you retract that? I think this person was told to get over to this question. Yeah, that's what it looks... That's what these stories are about. These are about total devotion types. So the teacher reflected his total devotion by shouting at him in this way. But he didn't need a teacher to become totally devoted.

[31:26]

No, he didn't. You don't need a teacher to be totally devoted. Matter of fact, do not depend on your teacher to be totally devoted. Your total devotion, you won't even have a teacher until you're totally devoted. When you're totally devoted, then you make your teacher. Then your teacher... shows you your total devotion. So you need to know you're totally devoted. But you can't know you're totally devoted because that seems like telling, and you're wasting your time telling. So the teacher says, instead of saying, well, I guess once in a while the teacher says, oh, you're totally devoted. Once in a while that could happen, but usually they say something else, like, and you realize that you're totally devoted. You realize you're totally devoted. You can't tell by that. It doesn't show that you're totally devoted, right? You understand that you are because you understand, because you've renounced worldly affairs. Being totally devoted means renouncing worldly affairs. In worldly affairs, we are not totally devoted. We're totally devoted to worldly affairs.

[32:29]

In other words, we're totally involved in them, but the nature of worldly affairs is don't put all your eggs in one basket. Diversify your portfolio. But if you renounce worldly affairs, you do a stupid thing of putting all your chips on one thing. It's really stupid. And what do you put it on? I don't even know. Yes, Bear? Well, quite often I wonder about the difference, similarity between devotion and obsession. And What is the difference between devotion and deception, Bernd? I don't know. Come on, tell us. There's a difference. What's the difference? It struck me when you said that you don't like the what then.

[33:29]

No, I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like the future thing. I like it. I like it because it gives the thing to me a sense of immediacy and like a feeling of disguise at a point of no return, which is both depression and maybe obsession. Like what can I do? To me it feels like being strapped to the wall and seeing it like a rising damsel, rising vanishing image after image. There's immediacy, there's suffering, there's maybe devotion, maybe possession. It's not what I do, what then. What then can I do? It speaks to me. Again, I mean, I can only say, like, very often, I'm kind of struggling with that difference, devotion, perception, where they merge.

[34:42]

I think there are similarities. Yeah, there are similarities. But they are, at the same time, quite far apart. Well, may I comment on what you said? Yes. You said, what can I do? I'm strapped to the wall and I think, what can I do? If you're strapped to the wall in that way of total devotion, you don't think, what can I do? That's not strapped to the wall. That's trying to get away from the wall. I see, I'm seeing it now. What can I do? Because right now I don't feel strapped. Right. But the and then, or what then, is this kind of like what can I do kind of attitude usually. That's usually the way the word sounds, is what then. What then can I do? What do I do then? It's kind of an expectation then. You know, in a Buddhist abhidharma, when you're in hell, hell is an undefiled state.

[35:45]

It's undefiled. neutral when you're in hell you don't get in hell by undefiled karma but the situation of being in hell is undefiled because when you're in hell you're just strapped to the wall that's it you're just in hell you're just nailed to the cross that's it to think what then is more karma which, you know, you might think, well, then what good can I do? That's the kind of karma that gets you out of hell eventually. But the difference between obsession and devotion, what's the difference? Obsession is stuck. Devotion is not. Like, to be devoted to a person, say, I'm devoted to you, you know, what can I do for you? And they say, well, leave me alone.

[36:47]

You know, that may not be in your program of devotion. Like I told you before, you know, the Russians came into Hungary and said, we're here to liberate you. We're devoted to you people. You're just like us, you're Slavs. We're coming to help you because we love you. Well, we don't, no thank you. Go back home, take your tanks. No, no, we're devoted to you. That's obsession. They were obsessed with liberating the people in Hungary. They had obsessive orders. Liberate those people. Don't let go, check out and see what they need and be devoted to their every need and respond according to circumstances. No. Liberate them from, you know, the situation. So that's an obsession. You're in a rut. Whereas devotion, if you're really devoted, you can go with the situation.

[37:58]

You can adjust. This koan keeps changing. If you're devoted to it, you can change with it. But if you're obsessed with this koan, you can also study this koan with an obsession, but I think, you know, you'll get weak from it that way. I told you sometimes about the way I practiced in the past, and still do sometimes, an obsessive way where I actually got myself into certain, you know, well, in some sense, under control. But, you know, I didn't like it once I was successful at this obsessive mode of practice. Sometimes you have to be successful, sometimes you have to, you know, force yourself on a situation to realize that's not what you want. But there is obsessive form of practice, and in some sense, some practices which people associate with Buddhism, some concentration practices, are kind of obsessive.

[39:02]

Where, like, you just focus on this and you don't pay attention, you know, like, you focus on Or like some male yogis focus on the unattractiveness of females in order to counterbalance lust for them obsessively. It's not very enlightened to do that, but they do that in order to cause the concentration which results from making your mind not go towards objects that you're attracted to. But, you know, some people... feel they need that kind of practice, so they do that for a while. But it's very worldly. However, it's a higher form of worldly practice than just going around, I don't know, wedding people. Do you know what I mean? It's more concentrated than just jumping from thing to thing and acting on miscellaneous, undisciplined squads of emotions.

[40:07]

So it is somewhat more meritorious, but it's not practice itself. Okay, so here we are, and I might also just read the introduction now, where it says, the touch of the philosopher's stone turns iron into gold. One word of the ultimate principle transforms an ordinary man into a sage. If you know that gold and iron are not two, that ordinary and sage are fundamentally the same, after all, then after all, you'll have no use for it. But tell me, what is this one touch? Now, if you know that iron and gold are not two, what does that mean to you?

[41:18]

How would it be that you would know that they weren't two? Well, I can say you'd know that they weren't two because you would have been touched already. and you would have been touched in a state of uprightness. The touch should not come to one who's not upright. The touch should not come to one who hasn't renounced the world. If you know that iron and gold are the same, you've already been illuminated. If you've already been illuminated, you don't need a touch. I haven't looked at the characters for this, but another translation I've seen of this is one drop of elixir changes iron into gold, ordinary into sage.

[42:22]

If you realize that these are the same, you don't need a drop of the elixir. But what is this drop? So in this story, there is a drop. Okay. All right. What's the drop? Are you doing that for dramatic effect? I'm asking you a question. I know you are. Do you have the answer? Well... You went like this. That's why I called her. And then I watched my mind take off, so I was... So what's the drop? ...stopping for a minute so that it... What's the drop? My mind... What's the drop, Maheen, in this story? Right in there. What's the drop, Jennifer? What's the drop, teacher?

[43:27]

The who's. Hmm? The who's. The who's, yeah. Who's. Who's arising and vanishing is it? That's a drop. Or maybe it's the who's, I don't know. Or maybe it's it. Anyway, somewhere around, somewhere in that neighborhood is the drop that was dropped on Loshan. And then Loshan became a sage and realized that there's no difference between the way it was before and after. So then I didn't need a drop. But what drop is it? That's the drop in this case. That's the drop. Okay. Now, it says... I want to read the commentary now. Don't be a companion of mind. When mindless, the mind is naturally at rest.

[44:31]

If you take mind as a partner, when moving you'll be full. Without it, there is no deluded mind. When Bodhidharma came from the West, directly pointing to the human mind so that they could see its nature and attain Buddhahood, was he teaching you to be bandits escorted by a thief, escorting a thief? to recognize the servant as a master. So, don't be a companion of the mind, he said. Don't be... Don't be a companion of the mind. Yes? Does not come to... I don't know. Yes. Page 184. Yes, sir. Page 184.

[45:33]

See where it says Jiao Jiao? And 184 in the center, about six lines down. Do you see it? Jiao Jiao said, don't be a companion of the mind. Being a companion of the mind is what? In terms of kind of like recently quoted jargon. Being worldly affairs. Right. It is a worldly affair to be a companion of the mind. Aren't most people companions of their mind? This is not bad to be a companion of the mind. It's quite normal. I know some wonderful people who, you know, go around being, there's them and there's the mind, they have this companionship, kind of like their pet mind.

[46:40]

They love it and they hate it. They try to discipline it, punish it, praise it, get it under control, make money off it, make it smarter, healthier, fluff it up, perfume it, you know, all kinds of little programs they have for their little companions. Really? I didn't know you were like that. But I know there are people, there are people, very nice people, just like Petra, who are just like that. Okay, so, but that's just, that's worldly affairs. And it's okay that we're that way, we are that way, I'm even that way. The thing is, renounce it. Try it. Try not being a companion to your mind. Try not being a bunch of bandit accompanying a thief. Leanne? I would think that there'd have to be a drop also in that worldly affairs thing.

[47:44]

At some point, the worldly affairs becomes gold, or there is a transformation in that activity as well. Yeah, well, the drop may be a worldly affair. That may be what the drop is. But it seems that worldly affair is pure, but there's something that that companion of mine makes it less than that. Right. Right. So worldly affair is fine. The worldly affair is fine. No problem. That's why you can renounce it. You don't need to take care of it. It'll be okay. Right. But it was also this question, too, because he says, you must be cold ashes of dead tree, one thought for ten thousand years, box of lead joining, and pure and spotless declared. It just seems like... No, it doesn't seem like. It is so that there is some transformation in everything. And the renunciation is...

[48:46]

Dropping everything extra other than that. What do you mean, other than that? I don't know. You get to keep that? What? I didn't hear you. You said dropping everything extra other than that. Get to keep something? The spotlessly clear worldly affair. You get to keep that? If there is a transformation, one has to keep it and drop it. If this transformation takes place, which is this koan, that's what would happen. Well, I'm not quite sure I know what you just said. I know. But... But I think I do, sir. Okay. But anyway, when you renounce worldly affairs, it really means renounce everything. And then maybe the drop that comes and, you know, shows you that there's no difference between ordinary people and sages, maybe that drop is worldly affairs, maybe a worldly affair, so you can test your renunciation by seeing whether you can handle worldly affairs again now.

[50:11]

I thought you said you knew what you meant. Well, you've been adding something to it. I'm wondering if... Anyway, I thought you were pretty close there, except you seem to be grudging total renunciation. Well, no, no, not total renunciation. No, not... It's... I guess it's appreciating what... Appreciating, yes, it's appreciating. Appreciating. Pronunciation is appreciating. Holding is a lack of appreciation. Yeah, right. Well, yeah, so it seems to me... Carol and Martha.

[51:24]

It's not the affairs that are worldly. It's you that... Well, no, you are worldly affairs. There's not some stuff out there that's worldly. Your attitude towards things is worldly affairs. Worldly affairs is fundamentally our way of thinking. It's the fundamental example of worldly affairs is our way of thinking. Okay? That's what you renounce. Yeah, that's what... She got stuck on a pure... Oh, wait a minute. She didn't get stuck. Thank you. For saying so. Nobody gets stuck but me. I'm the only one who can be stuck. Everybody else is completely free. Completely free. And if you appreciate that, you're not stuck. But if you see anybody who's stuck, you're stuck. Because you don't appreciate and you haven't renounced anything. your own thinking, which is that she's stuck. If I think you're stuck and I renounce it, then I don't think you're stuck.

[52:27]

I mean, I think that, but it's just like thinking that you're a dinosaur. It's the same thing. Maybe you are. I'm not sure. Martha? My question is that can I really renounce worldly affairs? No. My sense is that renounce the issue of worldly affairs is going on all the time. That's right. That's why you're instructed to renounce worldly affairs even though you can't do it. It didn't say you personally all by yourself renounce worldly affairs. It said I vow to renounce worldly affairs. That doesn't mean I vow to do it by myself. I can only do it because everybody's helping me and if everybody's helping me then what's going on all the time? It isn't like sort of like they're helping me once in a while, when I get it together or something and reward me. No, everybody's talking to me all the time right now on Spoiler Affairs.

[53:28]

That's why I should get with the program. But who is the I that's getting with the program? Who is it that should... Is there a program there and you read it with it or not? Well, the I that's with the program for you is the I that's not Martha. That's who the I is. For me, it can be Martha. But for me, it can be Martha but not Rev. It can be all of you and not me. That's who the I is. And that I is the I that can say, I renounce worldly affairs. When I'm not talking about me, I can say that. You become the world's honored one. Right. That's the one that does it. And it's the same one for all people that renounce. Same one. Same I. It's just that it's different for each person in a sense. The one thing it isn't is you. That's your own particular little dent in it, because you're not there.

[54:31]

But everybody else is, for all of us. Linda? Is it renouncing worldly affairs, or is it renouncing the thought about worldly affairs. Thoughts about worldly affairs are worldly affairs. If your thought about worldly affairs is that they're real... So is it thought we're talking about? Fundamentally, thought, yeah. And then anything that comes from a certain kind of thought will also be worldly affairs. You know, going shopping with a certain attitude then will be worldly affairs. You should then stop shopping that way. Usually we translate this thinking into something. So all those things should be dropped too. But it doesn't mean you should stop eating breakfast. It just means you should drop your usual attitude of eating breakfast, of I'm eating breakfast, or whatever. Maybe some people, like Marianne, maybe think, well, Reb's eating breakfast when she eats in the morning. I don't know. But whatever your trip is, drop it.

[55:32]

Renounce it. That doesn't mean try to stop yourself from thinking that way. It just means leave it alone. If you leave things alone, that's the main thing you do, that's the main thing that makes things worldly, is you're messing with them. So if you let your thoughts come up and leave them alone, that means they come up and you don't say, that's right, that's true, that's so, that's not so, right? Case 41. You just let it happen. Hmm. That's called renouncing worldly affairs. Worldly affairs is not just thinking, not just orange blossoms and people, but that's a good orange blossom, that's not an orange blossom, that's a fake orange blossom, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, let's get rid of the orange blossom, bring more in, whatever. That's worldly affairs. And that's what we're into. That's what we have to drop. And the way you drop it is just be upright. And nobody knows how to do that.

[56:36]

And if you say, well, how do you do that? Well, then, if I answer that and you apply that, then you've made it into a worldly affair again, which is fine, but then drop that. Nobody knows what this uprightness is. Nobody knows what it is. Nobody can get a hold of it. And when you hear about it, and once you understand, once people get a feeling for it, like at the end of the class last Saturday, people were getting a feeling for how wonderful this renunciation was, and they really wanted to know before the day was over, well... How to get it? How do you get a feeling about something that you can't even perceive? Because if you go... There, you just did it. Thank you. See? That's what you want to know. You want to get a feeling for it, right? And if I tell you more about how good it is, you really want to get something. You're talking about the most precious... I'm talking about the elixir. The elixir. Right? Don't you want to get that elixir?

[57:37]

What? You already have it? Well, you already don't need it. But it is the most wonderful thing that there is among things. So don't we want to find it and get it? Well, it's right on the page there. But how are you going to get it off the page? Where is the spatula? The jeweled spatula of the ancestors, they have those things. That's what you want, right? Now, wanting that is good. Okay? Because then you get... Now, there's a pure... This is pure worldly affairs right there. Because you really do... This is one thing you want, right? This is going to fix everything. Wouldn't you want that? Of course you would. Well, that's normal. That means you're listening to me if you want it. If you want this elixir, like, you know, and you're starting to drool for this elixir, that means you've been paying attention. Now, renounce that. Renounce this thing you'd like to get. and proceed with empty hands, not knowing anything about what to do.

[58:41]

And watch your mind try to move back in and get a control of the situation and renounce it. Don't try to stop it, say, oh, hello, come on in, sit down, sweetie. Try to get control. We'll watch this now. You know, don't, just let it come. Just let it come in. Let the mind come in that wants to try to get a hold of this practice. What about the I that is saying, I am watching you eating breakfast, that greater I, not marrying... The greater I? Yeah. What about that greater I? Yes? When that comes up, you have a feeling, you have a consciousness of that, but you can't have a consciousness of that. You're right, you do not have a consciousness of that. You do not have a consciousness of that greater I. That's right, you don't. But wouldn't you like to? Isn't that what you're saying? you realize you wouldn't have a consciousness of it, and you'd like to have a consciousness of it, wouldn't you? Yeah, well, you can't. And if you accept that, and without sort of saying, okay, well, I can't, so I'm just going to go back to the regular consciousness of the I that's me, and I'm going to work with that one, well, then you're just saying, well, I'm just temporarily giving up on this other practice of Buddhism, and I'm just going to do the practice of...

[59:56]

worldly affairs of me having stuff because I can get a hold of that I'm going to do that for the rest of the day and see how that works out and I'm going to pay attention to see if it's really that interesting and I think you'll find out what it's like and then at the end of the day you'll want to sort of like you'll wish that you could get a hold of this thing you couldn't get a hold of again but that's in some sense a more pure worldly thing than this other one because this other one you know doesn't work but this one really works so that would be the thing you most would want to get The thing that would work. The thing that would set you free and make you happy and make all your problems just drop off. That's the thing. That's what you really want. And so there's where you can find sometimes the purest worldly thing. Really what you want. But that wanting it is good. Worldly affairs are good because worldly affairs are what you renounce.

[60:59]

And when you renounce worldly affairs, you can maintain the Buddha Dharma. If you can't find your worldly affairs, you can't renounce them. And worldly affairs, ladies and gentlemen, you can find those. You can't find the elixir. You can't get a hold of the I. which realizes the way. You can't get a hold of that. But you can get a hold of worldly affairs. That's what they are. And so therefore you can renounce them. You can let go. And although you can grab them and let go of them, I mean, although you can grab them, you can let go of them, you can let go of them because they are naturally released. That's the kind of things they are. They are released. Because they're due to causes and conditions. that will be released. And you can watch it. You can watch yourself be a companion of the mind.

[62:00]

You can see that. That's a worldly thing. You can watch yourself do that and you can renounce being a companion of the mind and see how that is, and then notice that you'd like to go back to where you were a companion again. And that's a worldly affair which you can renounce. You can notice how helpless and powerless you feel when you're not a companion of your mind anymore. You can notice how powerless you feel when you're not abandoned anymore. So then you can notice how you'd like to go back and be powerful again. But this is the power to put yourself into birth and death, is what that power is. But some people would rather, quite a few people would rather have the power of putting themselves in birth and death than to be a powerless, liberated one. Right? Yes? Is all that noticing different from being upright?

[63:02]

Or is that being upright? All noticing is different from being upright, yes. Because all noticing is words. But you use all the noticing as a way to guide yourself to uprightness. Just like fear, if there's fear, you're leaning forward into the future, but if you see the fear for what it is, as leaning, if you see you're leaning, when you see you're leaning, when you're leaning, the only way you can tell that you're leaning is because you're upright. but you can't get a hold of the uprightness that you use to tell that you're leaning. You can't get a hold of the present by which you tell that you're leaning into the future. As soon as you notice that you're leaning into the future, you've already manifested uprightness. And when you can't tell that you're leaning into the future, and you can't tell that you're leaning into the past, and you can't tell that you're leaning into affirmation, and you can't tell you're leaning into denial, when you don't have any, like, things to notice anymore,

[64:13]

when there's no biases or leanings or dispositions or sentiments or obsessions, when there's just total devotion to upright sitting, you have no information. You have no kind of like, okay, well now I'm doing it right. When you say, oh, I'm now doing it right, that's an indication which tells you there's a leaning, but it's because of uprightness that you can tell that I'm doing it right is a leaning. It's your innate wisdom that knows that any kind of affirmation you make of yourself is a bias. Any kind of negation you make of yourself is a bias. So you know. Maybe you need a little help occasionally, but basically when I help people or when I get helped, people say, oh, that's right. The upright person I'm talking to says, that's right, that's not me, really. That's not the me that's not me. That's the me that's this one here, that one here, that one here. People know. You know what it means to be upright.

[65:16]

That's how you can... That is so you can tell what being off is. When you're not off at all, you have no way to tell you're on. And you don't need any way to tell you're on. And then, you're just the entire universe. There's no way to say you're not. There's no way to say you are, and yet... And then when you're not the entire universe, you're leaning again. And you can spot it. Spotting it, you can spot because the entire universe can tell the difference. But that's fine. Just call it for what it is. That's called renouncing worldly affairs. If you just come back to there and are willing, at least willing to stay in uprightness and willing to stay in renunciation. Not stay, but are willing to accept that for a moment. That's all. And there you can maintain the Buddha Dharma. There, you can be touched by a worldly affair, by anything, and you can wake up on that.

[66:21]

You can understand that a worldly affair is not a worldly affair. Say more about when you are being heard. Say more about it? With that sort of... Turning away is not good. Touching isn't either. If I say more about it, and I'm somewhat literary about it, then I just defile it.

[67:25]

Then I just defile it. So, if you want me to defile it, I will. It's a popsicle, turns out. It's a popsicle. You know, it's frozen, it's frozen pop. It's pop, it's pop converted into a sickle, icicle. In fact, I saw a little form by the office for making popsicles. and I'm going to buy one at the store and make delicious popsicles. And these popsicles will be, that thing you're talking about, defiled. However, that thing is happy to be defiled by being everything in particular. That's the kind of thing it is. It's so big, it's so generous that it comes into defilement.

[68:29]

and totally exerts itself into every little defilement. But the defilements are not really defilements if you see them in renunciation. They are the total exertion of the entire universe. But they're not the total universe. They're just one little particular thing. So, are you willing to consider learning about how to renounce being a companion of the mind? Just like the mind, but no companion for it. Nobody there to say, okay, now the mind is in San Francisco.

[69:36]

Now the mind is at Gringos. Now the mind is good. Now the mind is bad. No companion. No discipline. No control. Just like... Can't even say what it would be like. Are you ready to let it just go? What about mindfulness? Does that mean you aren't even mindful? I don't know. If I said you weren't mindful, if I said that's the way it was, then there would be a companion there of the mind called not being mindful. Maybe the mind is naturally mindful and doesn't need a companion. Could that be the case? Maybe that's what the mind is, actually, is just mindfulness. Maybe that's all it is. And maybe there's not any need for an additional companion on top of that. Maybe we don't need to hold on anymore to what's going on.

[70:40]

Maybe we can let go of everything that we're concerned with, let go of everything we happen to be concerned with, which is emanating from our lack of trust of the mind. Maybe if we let go of everything, rather than like everything getting out of control and, you know, us turning into bums, maybe we'd just be like radiantly present. And in balance. And not even need to know anymore that we were. We just would be Buddha. Maybe. That's what the Buddhists say. Maybe they're not lying. But the thing is we have to give up everything in order to check out whether that might be the case. If it is, then we can maintain the Buddhadharma from that position. The last couple lines of the commentary say that

[71:52]

Yun To is saying, whose arising and vanishing is it, is the same approach as Yun Yan lifting the broom and saying, which moon is this? So this connects into, you know, a well-worked, a well-worked Was it a wooden goose? That's good, thank you. We could use case 21 as a wooden goose if we're not careful. So I guess in one sense the true spirit is for me not even to talk about case 21 now, to renounce that. I don't know anything about case 21. I don't know what he's talking about. How many people do not know case 21?

[72:54]

Okay, well, I didn't say do not know it intimately, just do not know it at all. Okay, case 21, this monk is sweeping the ground and his brother comes up to him and says, you're too busy. In other words, you're a companion of the mind. No, he doesn't say, you're too busy, he just says, too busy. Sorry. Too busy. And so, in other words, you're a companion of your mind. So, anytime you're doing anything, someone could come up to you and say, too busy, too busy. Or like, you know, if you're meditating, someone can come up to you and say, you're using a wooden duck.

[73:57]

A wooden duck is a duck that, like when they're going down through rapids, you know, in boats, they take a piece of wood and put it in the water ahead of them to watch how it goes. So they can, by watching the pattern of the piece of wood, they can kind of guide themselves through the rapids. But in Zen we're not supposed to use a wooden duck. You're supposed to be a wooden duck. Someone gave me a beautiful wooden duck after that class, but I don't use it. Has anybody seen that wooden duck around my house lately? Have you seen it? Is it there still? I forgot the wooden duck, but I am a wooden duck. And when I'm a wooden, wooden duck, I'm a happy duck. Bodhisattvas, you know the bodhisattvas?

[75:09]

The people who are, like, dedicated to the welfare of all? These people are wooden ducks. They don't use wooden ducks because wooden ducks have no use for wooden ducks. If a wooden duck saw a wooden duck, they wouldn't get any information. They'd just sit there to watch the other wooden duck go down. They wouldn't learn anything about how to go down themselves by watching another wooden duck. Do you know what I mean? Because they don't have any eyes or ears. They just sit there, you know. If the other wooden duck did a triple flip and flew backwards five galaxies, it wouldn't make any difference to them. They would still just jump in the water and go the same way. This is happiness. This is not being a companion of your mind. This is being like a fool. This is being like a fool, but this is not being fooled. Okay? If you're a companion of the mind, you'll be fooled. If you just mind, you're a fool. You're a puppet.

[76:13]

You're a puppet of the water if you're a wooden duck. Put a wooden duck in the water, what do they do? Do they sit there like, kind of like, just sit in the water, like, hold still? No, they... That's happiness. Sadness is, misery is, being a companion of yourself as you're going down the water. Or even kind of like saying, wait a minute, I didn't sign up for this, or whatever, you know. Hold it, hold it, just a second. Hold the water, hold the water, just a second. Whoa, whoa, [...] whoa. No, no, no, no, no. I ain't ready for this. I ain't gonna, no, no, die tomorrow, I'll die. Tomorrow, okay? Cool it. No, I'm not kidding, this is not funny. I, no, I mean, don't turn the heat any higher. This water's going too fast. Now, you can say all this, and you can even say, I don't like this water, and I want to stop this, and I'm, you know, blah, blah.

[77:21]

You can do all that if you, you know, don't take this personally. If you don't take it personally, you can put on a good show. You can say all that stuff. You can act just like an ordinary person and wake up in that way of talking. The key is, this renunciation, this uprightness. Now, have I made my point? So not being a companion of the mind, giving up wooden ducks, let's enter this case, or some case, or enter something. Anyway, renounce worldly affairs, be upright, and enter the reality. And then we will maintain the Buddha Dharma and we'll use this elixir here.

[78:26]

We'll use this elixir. We'll use this story. We'll use it. We'll use it. We'll use it. We'll turn it. We'll play with it. We'll use it to maintain the Buddha Dharma. The way we may use it is by turning to case 44. Who knows how we'll use it? We may use it by, you know, erasing Yanto from all books. I don't know what we'll do, but we will use it. We can use it to maintain the Dharma. It's a Dharma... It's a Dharma opportunity. We can use other ones too. And that's one way we can use this, is to use other ones. You get to maintain the Buddha Dharma if you renounce worldly affairs. You actually can do it. But you, in the same way of you renouncing worldly affairs, it's not you. It's not you that renounces worldly affairs, and it's not you that maintains the Buddha Dharma, and it's not you that attains the way with all sentient beings.

[79:33]

That's not what I mean. I'm talking to the you who doesn't know who I'm talking to. And I'm talking right to you. And I want to call your name and see if you're the one person who doesn't know who I'm talking to. And that person with all of us will maintain the Buddha Dharma. That person has renounced herself, renounced himself, can't remember himself. He's a fool. But he can't, he cannot be fooled because he doesn't even know who they're talking to. Isn't he a fool? He's such a fool. He can't be fooled. This is happiness. But the problem is you have to renounce being this smarty pants companion of your mind. It's a big loss.

[80:34]

It's a big giveaway. All The ancestors did this, however, so you have good company in this foolishness. They all did it, as far as I can tell, all the ancestors in the Bodhisattva path. There may be other paths, but all the Zen ancestors in the Bodhisattva path, they all formally and informally gave up all worldly affairs. They all forgot about themselves, and when they said, I, they didn't know who they were talking about. Okay, everybody understand everything now? Okay, so next week we'll go very deep into case 43, so deep that we won't be here. Okay? Not Thursday, I want to change that.

[81:38]

Turns out we can make this class go on. There's more, what do you call them, Mondays. So we just have another... Well, yeah, I think so. If there are, then we'll have more Mondays. So we'll do another Monday after. Is this a six-week class? Yeah. So on the seventh week, we'll have another class. Okay? Is that all right? So no class next week at all. So no class next week. and then we'll have classes beyond the time when this session is, we'll have classes after this class is supposed to end, we'll have another class. Right? So you've got to, what do you call it, you've got to do this really difficult thing of, you know, of not holding anything together and not remembering anything and forgetting yourself and, like, giving everything up for, like, two weeks. You're not going to have this class to help you. You've got to be totally useless and helpless and a complete beginner all the time, not knowing even what anything about Buddhism is or what life is or what death is.

[82:50]

Of course you will, but renounce that. Just give it up. Keep giving it up for two weeks straight, every day, 24 hours a day. Or at least in one moment, kind of like that kind of attitude. Okay, we start right now. All right, ready?

[83:16]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_82.35