We didn't necessarily exhaustively study the first part of this case, but still maybe we could go on to the verse, and if we want to we can come back and look at the first part more. So the verse says, source and explanations variously are all made up.

[01:11]

Passing from ear to mouth comes apart. Planting fields, making rice, ordinary household matters. Only those who have investigated to the full would know. having investigated to the full, you clearly know there's nothing to seek." Do you have, in the Polish version, does it say, Jifong? Jifong, after all, didn't care to be in fiefd as a marquis, forgetting his state, He returned, same as fish and birds, washing his feet in the tsong lang, the hazy waters of autumn.

[02:13]

The first two paragraphs refer to one of our ancestors' quote there, the first quote, and then there's a big quote from the Langavatara Sutra. But it seems to me that the heart of this verse the heart of it in the sense of in the sense of our practice here in terms of most people's practice here is in the middle there where it says planting fields making rice ordinary household matters only those who investigated to the full would know Having investigated to the full, you clearly know there's nothing to seek."

[03:38]

And then there's an example from classical literature, from classical antiquity of China, about this dignified general who... was offered a great deal for his services, but accepted somewhat less than what was offered. And then the Zen teacher, Tien Tung, compares him to this folk a folk song. And so, in a way, according to this commentator's words on this verse, he's saying that there's two things he's saying.

[04:59]

One is that their fortune The fortune of these ancients was no more than contentment. All their lives they never sought from anyone. Their nobility was no more than purity and sincerity. What need for bushels and emblems? At least that seems to me to be the heart of this verse. And maybe the heart of our practice, too.

[06:00]

Their fortune was no more than contentment. All their lives they never sought from anyone. Their nobility was no more than purity and sincerity. What need of bushels of emblems? So... So that seems to be the core of the verse. Now, I'm happy to discuss whether people think life is more complicated than that, even within case number twelve. But as far as the verse, as far as Tien Tung's celebration of this case, that's what seems to be the very simple, very simple core. Yes? In these lines, Should we understand nobility meaning their noble estate?

[07:09]

Right. The word nobility, should we understand that it means their noble estate rather than their noble character? Their noble estate, elevation, noble, to their nobility. Or in reference to their characters. Gee, that's a subtle question. Do you see a difference between noble estate and noble character? What's the difference there? Well, actually, just as we're talking now, it was the first time that reading of it occurred to me, and it illuminated the refusal of Dufault. of a noble estate is residing in his noble character, which was to go back is directly business.

[08:17]

So that was the first time that I was able to understand the sense of nobility that way. Usually, when I think of nobility, maybe it's my democratic upbringing. I don't think of being elevated to the estate of the nobility. I just refer to character. Yeah. You know, he did accept a town, though. Did you notice? He accepted a town instead of 30,000 households. He accepted a town. Well, he was city. Okay. You do have a garden or an estate, actually. Part of this thing is to have a field to play in. It's just that the field should not necessarily be a field that's like a field which is in addition to your place that you play, it's a field which is, by its shape and quality, it's emblematic of what you're practicing.

[09:26]

It may not... Here we're saying that you don't necessarily have to have these... that the topography of your Buddha land does not necessarily have to be emblematic of this wonderful thing. Okay? But he did have a field. He didn't accept a field to play in. Okay? That's an important point that you might think that in the purity of practice you might think, well, you just have this person, right? this wonderful person who is realizing the Buddha Dharma, and isn't that enough? Their contentment, what does it say? Their contentment, their fortune is no more than their contentment, right? That's really the thing, is you have a person whose fortune is their contentment. Isn't that sort of how we feel in a way? That's at the heart of it. But even though that's the case, they still have an estate or a land.

[10:30]

They need a land. You can't just have your own body. You need a room or a house or a garden. So it is part of a Buddha is to have a Buddha land. However, the Buddha land does not necessarily have to be... Like they say here, it does not necessarily have to be a monastery with a big teaching hall and big emblems. It doesn't have to be. However, there is also raised in this story, I would say, there is a core which I'm suggesting to you, but there's also more than that here. There's more than that in this story. And so, in a sense, I'm standing up because I'm kind of saying this is an expression of a body of truth and arms and legs of lies.

[11:33]

That's maybe too strong, but... In other words, you're the central body of immovable truth and arms and legs of lies, or arms and legs that can move about and adapt to circumstances and vary and so on. So... Or you could even say, I guess, body of truth or body of simple contentment and arms and legs of skill and means. Yes? Well, to follow up on Stuart's question, Xifeng, after all, didn't care to be in fiefde as a marquis. He didn't want to be the head of this big fiefdom, is what I understand that to say. And forgetting his state, he returned, same as Fish and Berries. His state is... I mean, I read it both ways, forgetting his fiefdom and forgetting his conditions, his condition.

[12:41]

So would you read it that way? Both those ways? Yeah. Well, forgetting everything. Forgetting everything. But forgetting everything, he still had a little town that he played in. That was his playground. And... he deserved to be allowed to play in that field, partly because he seemed to know just the right size of field to play in. It kind of reminded me of the Bodhisattva, you know, not leaving all beings. It's like, maybe it's just my attitude about muddy water and washing your feet in it, but he didn't want to go there. an elevated place and being in an elevated position you want to get back to some more basic things. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So does anybody have any problem with this reading as the very simple core here?

[13:53]

What are the emblems? Emblems? Mm-hmm. Well, one emblem is extensive discussion. Ceremonies. Ceremonies. Rituals. Rituals. Tassels. Tassels. Wearing the robes. Robes. The traditional Zen emblem is the robe and the bowl, right? The robe and the bowl are emblematic of enlightenment, particularly the robe. The Buddha's robe is concrete piece of material in the world which proves enlightenment. It's like an emblem of enlightenment. And they passed this emblem on from person to person for six generations in China so the Chinese people could see. Oh, you don't understand? Well, here it is. Here's enlightenment. Here's the robe, see? Here's Bodhidharma's robe. And Bodhidharma came, and there he was, and he had this piece of cloth, which was he wore, and he gave this piece of cloth to his next disciple, and that was the proof.

[14:58]

You may say, that's some proof of enlightenment, but that is proof. If you were there at the time and you saw Bodhidharma's robe, you probably would say, okay, I get it. If you saw Bodhidharma, you'd say, okay. And then if Bodhidharma gave his robe to his disciple and people said, well, are you Bodhidharma's disciple? He'd say, yeah, here's the robe, see? And he'd pick up the robe and people would know that that was the proof of enlightenment. There would be no question, and there was no question. But then, as some of you know, after six generations it became, instead of a Instead of the robe, it was called the robe of faith, actually, for six generations, because when people saw the robe, they just immediately had faith. Of course, the person who had the robe was holding it up with that confidence of the transmission, but still it became a, what do you call it, an object of, what's the word, dissension.

[16:04]

So they stopped passing the robe on because it became an object of dissension. And then they just, then the sixth ancestor had these wonderful disciples. He said, you guys, you don't need any robes anymore. You're enough. You and yourself is enough. You don't need this robe anymore. And besides that, it's become kind of a problem. So that's why we only have a sixth patriarch and not a seventh patriarch. partly because he was so great, but also partly because it was no longer healthy to pass the robe on to one person. So he had a whole bunch of great disciples, and he didn't have to choose one of them and give them the robe. That's an emblem. In the first case of this book, when the Buddha got up in the seat, Manjushri struck the gavel and said, clearly observe the dharma of the king of dharma, the dharma of king of dharma is thus, the Buddha gets down, that is an emblematic event.

[17:20]

And it says in that book, which is in the Sung Dynasty, the commentator says, even today, in the Sung Dynasty, when we open a teaching hall, we still bring up this precedent. So in the Sung Dynasty, after all those years into the Sung Dynasty, they still went through those, they put on that little emblematic event when they opened the teaching hall. Opening a teaching hall means when a teacher first goes into the monastery and gives the teaching. That's called opening the teaching hall. Whenever they do that, after he gave the teaching or had mandos with the monks, then somebody would come up and say that. And even today now, in the 20th century America, we still do that. Okay? We still do what they did then and what they did then. Those are emblems. But it says, but what do you need?

[18:23]

Bushels of emblems. So in one sense, we should have that spirit of what do you need with bushels of emblems? Yeah. I don't have any problem with the verse, but the commentary, it has this, in the first part, the long section about communion with the source is one's own practice, and communion by speech is showing to those who are not getting life. Yeah. And then it goes on, explain it. Well, I was kind of... But then at the end of that, it says... How can Chan be divided into five branches and a teaching in three vehicles, period, and not even one can stand up if all is artificial? Yeah. I can explain that to you.

[19:25]

I can explain that to you. But I would want it to wait a little while before getting into the first part, you know. I want to settle with the core for a little while so that people can not be... What you're bringing up, I think, is more like the arms and legs, the appendages of the body. So I want to make sure that people have the main torso and bowels before we get into the arms and legs. Okay? Okay. I don't know if you yet got the body. Does the body include the Buddhafield? Does the body include the Buddhafield? In a sense, I would say no. I would say the Buddhafield is part of the arms and legs. Or the Buddhafield is where the arms and legs, sort of the theater for the arms and legs to function.

[20:29]

You keep coming back to that. Is that art? Is that necessary? I mean, how is it necessary and what is it? Well, this is a perfect example, okay? I'm saying, I'm trying to emphasize the body that doesn't need the bushel of emblems, and here's a person bringing up bushels of emblems. And she keeps coming back to it. Because I wanted to hear you say we don't need the bushel of emblems. Yeah, but you still bring them up. Once wasn't enough. And also it says, what does it say? All their lives they never sought from anyone. And Zen is, half of Zen is this body of contentment, this body of peace, this wealth which is simply sincerity and purity.

[21:47]

Okay? That's half the body? That's not half the body, that's half the practice. The whole body? It's the whole body. It's the whole body, yeah. And yet, the other part of the practice is to go to a teacher and talk about Dharma. You definitely have to do that. However, the ancients, when they went to see the teacher, did not seek anything from anyone. So the trick is how to go see the teacher without seeking anything. Now what some people try to do is they come in to see the teacher and they say, it's either inside themselves or out loud, they say, I don't need you. Or, you know, I'm not trying to get anything from you, or you don't know anything, I don't know. Or they don't say that, but deep inside they're thinking that.

[22:49]

Which is, you know, it's good to protect yourself from the other side, which is, I do need you, and you do know something I don't know, and I've got to get something from you. So the reaction to that is opposite. Which is just the opposite. When you're really not seeking anything, you can seek all you want. We can go in and say, give it to me. We don't have to say even what it is. You just say, give it to me. The teacher says, what? But you can completely do that when you are not seeking anything. When you're seeking something, you don't feel comfortable doing that wholeheartedly. You feel bad about... When you think you're getting something from somebody else, you feel bad about asking for something.

[23:50]

It's not healthy, and you know it. But when you're not seeking something, you can... well, you know, you can ask for anything. And probably you will. So, but the main thing is, the core, the place we start is... from a purity and sincerity which is complete and perfect, and then we go from there. But that's what I think is the core here. However, it also says before that, it says, even though planting fields and making rice is ordinary, that you sincerely take care of your jobs or whatever they are. Take care of the guest students. Sincerely do that. You ring the bells completely sincerely and purely.

[24:54]

I mean, you ring the bells, I mean, completely purely you ring the bell. You don't ring the bell seeking anything. And the ringing of the bell is completely the Buddha way. Going with every ring of the bell, that's the Buddha way. There's not another Buddha way besides you ringing the bell. Yeah? If you're not seeking anything from the teacher, who's the teacher? If you're not seeking anything from the teacher, who's the teacher? So anyone's the teacher, right? And who's the teacher? The teacher's the person you go to to talk about the Dharma with. How do you know who's the teacher if you're not seeking a particular person?

[25:56]

You don't have to be seeking something. It doesn't say go seek the Dharma or seek the teacher. It says go to the teacher. You already say who the teacher is. The teacher is the person over there. That's the teacher. You say it's the teacher. You go to the person you think is the teacher. You go to the person who you're going to play that drama with. It is not that you know that's the teacher, although it's sometimes good to check the person out first before you start playing the drama. That does not mean... It sounds like you've got some kind of... Is it like being receptive more than drastic? Yeah, it's like being receptive. The teacher's the person you're receptive to. I mean, the teacher's also the person you believe is receptive to you. Thank you. But the point I'm trying to establish, well, not establish, but set up here in a way, temporarily,

[27:12]

is that you can approach discussion of Dharma with a person out of a sense of contentment and sincerity in everything you're doing on the way to the discussion. So you feel complete and fulfilled And have you checked out? You look like you're not with this. What's the matter? I guess I'm just not exactly understanding what the teacher means. I guess my idea is that you choose a teacher because you're seeking something from the teacher. So I don't exactly understand what a teacher is.

[28:19]

It seems like anyone can be a teacher, right? Well, not really. I mean, I mean, you can learn something from anybody, of course, okay? But there is a kind of, what do you call it, there is a kind of, what do you call it, a reproductive quality to Buddhism, like in plants, in animals, in nature, like in terms of our lives with our parents. I mean, there is such a thing as a parent and a child, right? And not everybody can be your parent. Propagation. Hmm? Propagation. Yeah, propagation. And there is a kind of thing like one generation and then another generation. Transmission. Transmission.

[29:25]

And not everybody, I mean, theoretically everybody could be a teacher for everybody, but in fact... In fact, it doesn't seem to be the case that just anybody can be a teacher. Once in a while it happens, and you could rearrange all the factors so that it could happen theoretically in all cases. Anybody can be a Buddha, but there have to be certain conditions there for a Buddha to appear. Anybody can be a teacher, but there have to be certain conditions for a teacher to appear. So in that sense, you can say anybody can be a teacher. Yeah?

[30:30]

What that makes me think of is don't be codependent, don't give way to power. I don't believe someone who calls himself a teacher if it doesn't eliminate the fear of spinning. It's on top of the name. Is that the gist of it? I think that the gist is... One gist is, the first gist is, is this body of truth, you know, is this contentment and sincerity. That's the first thing. And to practice without seeking anything. That's the first gist. That practice goes with going to see somebody else. Okay? If that person says they're a teacher, or not doesn't say they're a teacher, it doesn't really matter.

[31:34]

I mean, if that would be the thing that would make sure that the person wasn't a teacher, then good teachers probably would say that all the time. If that was the one quality that would make sure that that wasn't a teacher, then a lot of good teachers would say that to people, would say, I'm a teacher. That's another part of this story, is that you don't need emblems. The emblem of a teacher is that they don't say they're a teacher. That's one of the emblems. Or that they do say they're a teacher, or that they have a teaching hall, or that they have a monastery, or that they have transmission documents, all that kind of stuff. These are the emblems. Or they have a robe or a bowl. What do you call a world? Like what do you call the world? The world in the South, where they're talking?

[32:38]

Mm-hmm. Is it going to see the teacher part the arms and legs? Is that what they now do, that metaphor you used? Are going to see the teachers like the arms and legs, yeah. So, basically, that's the drama that was played out in the case, is these people were seeking a teacher, and they happened to be Tzai, and he didn't look like a teacher. He just looked like a rat. A rat? A rat. Yeah. Where you can't find any elephant tusks. Yeah. But Fa Yan... What is his name? Fa Yen's the one who's... Did Fa Yen say that? Yeah, Fa Yen's the one who said... Where did he say it? Oh, no, Fa Yen. No, Xu Shan said, either Elephant Tuscan or Rats Moral, Fa Yen said, don't crudely insult him.

[33:40]

Fa Yen, by the way, is the founder of one of these five things that you're talking about, five branches. Falyen became Ditsang's disciple. Anyway, I'm trying to stress this point because in some ways we're heading into a sesshin, and this kind of core is in some sense the, when you're sitting, this is the core of sitting in Soto Zen, a sitting with a body of contentment, a body of sincerity and a body of purity. And arms and legs, what do we do with the arms and legs in the classical form? What do we do with these arms and legs of lies? We put them into the body. We gather them into the body of sincerity in the classical form. They aren't out there doing things.

[34:42]

We're not running around during sesshin. We collect them into the body so the body is then emblematic. of not needing any emblems. And that's it, that's all you have to do, is just be yourself for seven days. However, as part of it, you're supposed to occasionally pull the arms and legs out of the body and go wag them around in the world, and run around in the Buddha field and go see the teacher. That's part of the thing. Okay, so I don't know if we can maybe just keep coming back to this body. And he says, even though planting fields and making rice is ordinary, in other words, even though this ordinary body, ordinary means sincerity, means sincerely being a regular guy, a regular gal.

[35:49]

Ordinary means, purity means ordinary. means you don't have to do anything special, artificial, or anything. Even though it's true, unless you investigate to the full, you don't know their import. So, this body of truth, you don't realize the body of truth unless you wave these arms around and see if you're caught by the lies for yourself. And then, when you've done that for some period of time, in other words, you've realized this, you have confidence in this content, pure body and your own sincerity and purity, and you've waved your arms and legs about in the Buddha field and stopped being caught by those lies that you tell, and that are said about your lies, the lies in response to your lies, and you're no longer caught by all this, after that you still might say, well now, do I have to do anything more than that?

[36:59]

And in other words, some people might say, after being involved in that kind of training, someone might say, do I have to study or read or anything like that? Do I have to study any scriptures or anything like that? And... that when that question is asked by graduates of the Zen training program in history, the teacher usually says, you have to do that in order to teach people. You yourself don't need it anymore because you've realized this body, plus you've also realized that all the activities of your arms and legs are lies. You're not fooled by that. But in order to help people, you need to... You need to study the scriptures and things like that. And that takes us back to the beginning of this verse, which is the source and explanations variously are all made up.

[38:05]

All these Zen discourses and discussions are artificial. flowing between the mouth and the ear, they cause separation. How is activity that comes from contentment, purity, moving the arms and legs from that place a lie? Well, it's a lie in the sense that we're saying, don't be caught by this stuff, don't take any of this activity as real. It's all skill and means. It's all just according to the means of the person at the time.

[39:10]

For example, one of the lies is you see the person walking from there over to there. A monk seems to go to a monastery to receive teachings. Well, if this monk is not seeking anything, that's kind of a lie. He's not really going there to seek anything. Or he goes and asks the teacher, what's Buddha? That's kind of a lie. If you hear the question as saying, I'm trying to find out from you what Buddha is, if you hear the question that way, then that's a lie. If you hear the question as a statement of truth, namely he's telling you what Buddha is when he asks that question, then it's not a lie. But then he's not really saying anything. then he's just walking up there, his arms and legs are drawn in, and he's not doing anything or seeking anything.

[40:22]

Can you act out the drama of what's Buddha, and while you're saying that, and even when, while you're saying that, and then when the teacher responds to you as though you were lying, and tells you that you should have been beaten before the moment you started to come to this place, you see what some people do when the study is in, they come and say, now I'm going to ask you a question in a minute, but I already know that the answer, but I already know that this question does not mean this, this, or this. So when I ask it, don't give me any of these three answers. So when I ask you what's Buddha, I don't mean that like I'm seeking something. So don't tell me not to come here and seek what's Buddha from you. But I'm going to ask you that question now, okay? That's not what I mean. Okay? No. I think all questions are little nudges. What? They're little nudges.

[41:27]

The dialogue that you and I have now, we're having right now, but it You know, I could walk out of this room in an hour and think about it differently and talk about it with someone else. It's like what we really do here right now is one thing, but it's kind of a little nudge. It's going straight ahead. It's a nudge? Yeah, it could. I could talk to Lois about this after class. Right. What do you mean, nudge? I don't know. It's like little balls bouncing off each other. But it's not a lie. It's not a lie? No. Is that a lie? Do you believe what you just said? Yes. Somebody else believes her?

[42:33]

I said I believe her. You believe her. You like saying it doesn't end when it ends. You're stopping it at any time and deciding when you can interpret it differently. But is that what you're saying, that the conversation doesn't end when it ends? All right. If asking questions is a lie, then why don't you send us one home? One of the, you know, when I have this, with this understanding, with this core understanding and this core feeling, there arises two things in me. One is a happiness and a peace, and another one is a feeling of, well, should we continue studying anything here at Fatsan Center, and should we have this Zen Center. It seems a bit much.

[43:36]

Definitely, yes. So, but anyway, that feeling arises in me and I wonder, can I continue to study for 88 more cases when I have that feeling? But then I think, and I don't quite jump quite that fast as you to definitely ask, but I do think, well, maybe we can... I don't know how we do this. Maybe we can keep studying it, but... We can pretend, yeah, we can pretend to play Zen, We can pretend to study these cases, huh? That sounds awful. Well, awful, but also kind of pitiful. And humble maybe is already too bragging, but pretty humble feeling like, well, could the world allow us to keep studying these cases?

[44:44]

Because it's kind of off the track for us to be doing this in a way. Because these are the emblems of Zen, these stories. And in some ways I kind of feel like we should just quietly, not overreact too much, but maybe in some subtle way just stop all this stuff. But the other side of me says, well, once I feel that way, well, maybe we could secretly continue to study. But not so much raise the big banner of, this is a Zen center. But maybe also in a true Zen center, secretly, kind of almost subversively, they get together and study the stories and the commentaries, which they should not be studying, but which they kind of do anyway, because they love them. But only because they love them, not because they're seeking anything, not because they're emblems.

[45:45]

And also, as they study them more and more, somehow the stories start to become emblems again. And they start sinking into them, and they start caring whether they understand, and they start feeling like if we don't study these stories, we really wouldn't be a Zen center. Instead of the other way around, which is the core of this verse, is if it's really a Zen center, you don't have this extensive discussion. You don't study these classical cases. The ancients were really kind of like bare-bones people. You know? How did they... What did he say? They reaped chestnuts and rice and boiled with the edge of a hole. You know? They kind of like pulled in their food with their hole and then maybe stirred in a broken pot, stirred their vegetables and rice with their hole. They were really primitive. Very ordinary. But they lie too. They lied too.

[46:50]

Yeah. Somebody sat around writing it down. And some little sneaks were writing it down. They call this, they call these teachings kirigami, which means cut paper. The monks weren't supposed to be doing that because in a truth and monastery it's bad enough to have these lectures. but worse to write it down. So they would write it down on little pieces of scrap paper and stick them in their robes. And later they had these piles of little pieces of ripped paper. And they would put them together into these huge books. And then people would find out about them and burn them. It's part of the culture, the folk culture of this strange sect of Buddhism that they do this kind of stuff. Style of lying. It's a style of lying, yeah. An irrepressible tendency to act out these forms.

[47:56]

These forms that are so precious, we should get rid of them. We should forget them. Like orioke, you know. It's a great thing, you know, that we have this wonderful practice, and it can slip into being, you know, fascism. Let's turn the lights down while we whisper. So again, when we sit, we sit with a sense of our practice fundamentally starts from enlightenment and goes forward into mystery of how this is unfolding.

[49:07]

If it is really enlightenment, that means it's not attached to any forms. So then we go forward into the mystery of how something that's not attached to forms would be involved in forms, like going to see a teacher, reading scriptures, you know, having a monastic style. This is a real question, why we would do that if we're free of all this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. As you're saying this, I just think we're always doing some form. I mean, you were saying, do we do this discussion, but if we thought, well, we should do this discussion, we should just sit, then we'd be doing another form that would be complete. So is it that the thing about whether it's emblematic or not has to do with the attitude toward it, not the thing itself? Has to do with the attitude. So really, we can study but not study it. Well, that's not true, though.

[50:12]

You have to study. That's the funny part about it, is that when you realize that you... Those who realize that you don't need to study, those are the ones who must study. Those who think you have to study, they don't have to study. As a matter of fact, it would probably be good if they had a fast on studying. When you really realize that you don't need to study, those people should study. Those who have realized that you don't need to study, those people should study. Because then they're studying without seeking. Well, yes, but that's why they're permitted to, but also it helps them in their work of demonstrating the lack of... You can't as well demonstrate the lack of need for studying without also studying. The same reason we have all the emblems. Yeah. Now, some people can say to Pete, say, you don't need the emblems.

[51:13]

And like I told my brother, you don't have to go to college. Just come on with me. I already did it for you. You don't have to do it again. He said, I got to go through college and realize it myself. So he did. but I could have stayed with him in college and taught him right then how he didn't need college by using college to teach him, and maybe it would have only taken two years to figure it out. I don't know. But the ones who are teaching the way we don't need the emblems are the people who realize we don't and use the emblems to do it, although some do not use it. It is possible not to use the emblems, and let somebody else do that work for you. But somebody else is going to do the work. Maybe I've taken this too literally, but are you then saying that one can't do it just by washing dishes and leave a cup all over the place?

[52:18]

No, you can do it that way. You can do it. Just washing cups and stuff like that is enough arms and legs stuff, actually. No, you can do it. You can't do it just by doing that. You can wash dishes and stuff like that and sit with this body of truth, but you have to extend your arms and legs and go see a teacher to see if you can act out these gestures and not be caught by them. but you don't have to do any study in order to realize that. However, once you have realized that and never caught by your own arms and legs, then in order to teach other people how that is true, you need to study to show them how that's true. You need study in order to help you do that. So in Zen, in a lot of the traditional stories, the Zen teachers did not study the classical teachings of Buddhism, like the five branches of Zen and the nine sections of the teaching, they did not study that stuff in their Zen training.

[53:26]

After they finished their Zen training, then they learned that stuff in order to be teachers. Well, then what does that say about beginners being steeped in study? It says that we're not doing the same style of Zen practice as was done at certain phases in golden age of Zen. And I think part of the reason for that is that in America now, we don't have Zen monasteries and doctrinal monasteries. So it's not like you can go study Zen, and then there's other places where you can leave after you finish your Zen, you can go and study the stuff about the teachings, how the teachings are laid out and all these things. So we do everything at once here. We also have... We also had pre-Zen training, too, here. We have the full range of teachings right here at Zen Center for people of different... different... what do you call it?

[54:31]

Different conditions or different states of their practice. If we had... We could have that, actually, you know, at some point. We could have some of us go up and open up temples that specialize in different aspects of our lineage. And then people could do it in separate places, and each place could be rather pure. What's pre-Zen training? Pre-Zen training? Well, in a sense, pre-Zen training is concentration practice, for example. to learn how to concentrate on your breathing, and, I mean, to learn it really well. It says here in case number three, in case number three, you know that case about following your breath? Okay? It's also, that case is also about not reading scriptures, right? The scripture that he reads is his breath.

[55:33]

Inhaling, not dwelling in body and mind. Exhaling, not involved in myriad circumstances. This is a scripture that that ancestor recites all the time. That's why he doesn't read scriptures. Okay? But he could teach all this stuff. You name it, he could teach all the scriptures. However, it says in the commentary... that before you study the mystery of Zen, you should master the Six Subtle Dharma Gates text, which I've lectured on in some of the sessions. In a sense, in terms of the Zen school, what has been called the Zen school, that kind of Zen training or that kind of concentration practice is pre-Zen. You should know that stuff before you study Zen, strictly speaking.

[56:41]

In other words, you should do a practice like that, which has the appearance of learning how to do something and progressing the ladder, as a kind of preparation to understanding how to practice a way that isn't going up the ladder, which is the way that we usually practice in Zen, which is, you are already finished with the course. When you sit zazen, you are practicing the end of the course. The course is done, you've finished it. Now, you've got to figure out what to do about that. You realize the body of truth, now can you walk around and talk without getting confused about that? And so this commentator says that before you do that kind of practice, you should have mastered this other one. So at this time in history, probably most people that went to Zen monasteries, or some of them anyway, had already trained in other monasteries on breath and posture quite extensively.

[57:57]

They just specialized in that before they came to a Zen monastery and ran into this stuff. But after they run into this stuff, they still have to go back and deal with that stuff again from a new perspective. Well, I thought that these monks lived in a sort of borrowed space in a way, that they didn't actually have I might be wrong, but I think they didn't have their own monasteries, but would live in a portion of another monastery of a different sect, or there might be more than one sect in the same monastery. Is that so? At this time in history, in the Sung Dynasty, Zen had its own monasteries, and the only monasteries were Zen monasteries. Because of a historical event that happened in 845, where all the monasteries... except the Zen monasteries were basically suppressed and dismantled. But the Zen monasteries, because these guys were actually living like this, you know, with their hoes and their broken pots, they didn't get busted because there was nothing to bust.

[59:05]

You know, and they were out in the woods, in the mountains, just being really ordinary. I mean, like living in barns and... not having much possessions. And this style, which had very little political import, At that time in China, the Buddhist monasteries owned tremendous land and had a high percentage of the material, at least metal wealth in the nation, was in the monasteries in the form of bells and gongs and various kinds of... I mean, a significant proportion of the national resources were in the monasteries. So the Confucian people said to the emperor, hey, man, you can get rich, just bust these monasteries and get all that wealth, get that land back, and get all that copper, bronze, gold, and silver back.

[60:13]

Plus get these people out of the monasteries and get them back into the labor force. So he busted them all. And then, a little bit later, what do you call it, the pendulum swung back the other way, and they felt sorry about that for various reasons. I won't go into it right now. But anyway, the Zen monasteries are sitting out there. They had to cut down their style a little bit, but it didn't bother them much. A few of them went into hiding. But that means they moved out of a barn into a chicken coop. No big deal. So then, after Buddhism had been suppressed, all these Zen monks were just sitting there like they were before, all kind of happy little Buddhas. And then people said, help, we need some Buddhas to come back and repopulate these monasteries. The Zen people said, hmm? And then you've got all these stories of trying to get them back into the monasteries, and pretty soon all the Zen teachers were living in these big monasteries, and then the Zen people became the heads of these big political things like that, and then Zen was shot.

[61:29]

That's his time. When Zen now was, all the monastic Buddhism was Zen Buddhism. They had their own monasteries, and all the monasteries were Zen monasteries. However, the same thing happened in reverse, namely all the teachings which used to be in separate monasteries then started happening in Zen monasteries. So now, rather than the Zen being part of the bigger monastery, all the monasteries were Zen and all the other kinds of practices were happening in Zen monasteries, so Zen monasteries started to be like Buddhist universities, in a sense, or practice universities where you have all kinds of practices and studies going on under the heading of Zen. So then you really couldn't tell they were Zen anymore. And so after that, what we call Zen was hard to find in China. And right around this time, or within 100 years of this time, you really wouldn't be able to find a Zen monastery anymore by what the Zen stories say. What time is it?

[62:34]

Twenty. Twenty-nine? Twenty. A minute. So, you know, so anyway, we could, if you ever want to, and some of you maybe do, want to know what this stuff about the Lankavatara Sutra thing, and here it is, Vata, and about the five branches and the nine things. Basically, these are these things. These are the arms and legs. These are the speech section of it. And the source section is this body. The source is this pure, sincere contentment with your ordinary life, which for a monk, ordinary life means your body, your breath, your emotions, your feelings, your perceptions, your consciousness. That's your daily life, you know. That's And that can be literally in the form of planting fields and making rice balls and eating.

[63:41]

For a Buddhist monk, eating is what's eating? Eating is five skandhas. Eating is breathing. Eating is body. Eating is taste. Eating is smell. Eating is touch. Eating is sound. So it's just That's it. And there's no seeking in it, there's just contentment. That's it. However, as it says in the sutra, there's not just a source, there's also explanation. And as I said in the one-day sitting the other day, In the teaching of Soto Zen, which tends to be in the side of no mind, no Buddha, the practice is simple and easy. Contentment is close at hand. What's hard is explanation.

[64:42]

So we start with contentment. We start with the body of truth and then we have problems explaining. The other kind of practice which is this kind of pre-Zen practice in a way, which a lot of Zen people do, they're supposed to do before they practice Zen in a way, that part is mind itself is Buddha. There, the explanation is not too difficult, but the practice is very difficult. So learning these six subtle dharmic gates is very difficult, actually, but not so difficult to explain. Do you differentiate between contentment and happiness? Well, contentment is happiness. A little different. But the kind of happiness that doesn't content is not the kind we're talking about here. Contentment is a condition for the kind of happiness that we're concerned with.

[65:49]

Yeah. So, Reverend, you were saying this body of serenity and purity and then the mind itself is Buddha. It's as if they are different in the way you just described it, just the last sentence you said. Will you say it again, please? You talked about this body of serenity and purity. Yeah. And then you talked about this other thing which is that the mind itself is Buddha, and that's more difficult. Mind itself at Buddha is a kind of path to realize the body of serenity. In other words, by studying the mind, you realize the mind is Buddha. And... The mind as Buddha is not different than the body of serenity and purity. That's right. The mind of Buddha is the body of serenity and purity, right. It's kind of a question of whether... You see, if you say the mind itself is Buddha, then you have to realize what the mind itself is, which is easy to explain how to do it, it's just hard to do it.

[67:01]

If you say no mind and no Buddha, no seeking, already you're done. In other words, don't seek anything other than this. That's it, flat out. This is the body of truth. Now explaining that is arms and legs. In this class right now, I come to the class with the feeling of this essential import of this verse, but as I enter into the conversations with you, it's easy for me to forget that. It's easy for me to get caught by seeking to convey to you my sense of this contentment and this fact that you're done with the course. And now that you've finished the course, now would you please spread the word, spread the good news of this course that you have finished. And I'm very happy to help you spread the good word, to help you spread the news that you have finished and so has everybody else.

[68:09]

And anybody who doesn't agree You're welcome too. Please come forward, as it says in the beginning. Spreading the word is sort of sabotaging the course. Spreading the word is sabotaging the course at the same time. Yeah. At the same time, if anybody doesn't agree, they can come too, and they can go back and do the course. If anybody wants to do the course, fine. As a matter of fact, it says in this book that you should do the course before you study this book, which tells you you've finished the course. Right? And some people are very happy to hear about that. Usually when, if we start talking about the Course, people feel they've got something to get a hold of. Because it's easy to understand. But when they try to get a hold of it, they have a lot of time, they have a hard time with it. So when we study the Sixth Cell of Dharma Gates, everybody's very happy that finally they understand something about Zen. Because you do understand it, and that's, you can understand these instructions.

[69:11]

Following the breathing, you know, stopping the breath, returning, purifying, all this stuff, you know, it's great. People have a sense of it, but they have a hard time doing it. Whereas the practice, which is very simple, it's hard to understand. You keep forgetting, and how do you remember? Because there's nothing to remember, other than, you don't have to remember even that. So how do you explain that to your mom? So it's easier maybe to explain to your mom it's other practice which you can't do very well. But when you get to be really good at it, then you actually believe that you're at the place you are now. So you know that story, I told that story, I told it to the retreat the other day. It's a story in the Lotus Sutra. The Lotus Sutra is like this too. It has, the first half of the Lotus Sutra is arms and legs.

[70:14]

The second half of the Lotus Sutra is just a body. But in the first half of the Lotus Sutra, part of the arms and legs is to tell stories about how the arms and legs are just lies. So they have this story which is called Faith and Understanding. And it's about this guy who gets lost. You know the story of that guy who got lost? He had very wealthy parents. And he went out for a walk one day and couldn't find his way home. So he didn't know where he was. So he kept going from there to there to there and kept getting more and more lost until finally he had been lost for 50 years. And during that time, he also didn't have a livelihood because he was such a rich kid, he didn't have any skills. So he couldn't make a living.

[71:17]

And so he was emaciated and filthy and a total wreck, 50 years older than when he left. And then just by coincidence, he happened to wander through his hometown one time and walk right in front of his parents' house, who they were also a little bit older by that time, and they just happened to be sitting out on the terrace of their palace and they looked down the stairs of their palace and they saw their wrecked kid walk by. And dad turned to mom and said, there's our boy. And they sent servants down to get him and the man looked up the stairs at this palace and saw these servants running down the stairs apparently to get him, and he thought that he was going to be put in some other location in a rough manner, because obviously these people did not like his decrepit, filthy presence in their neighborhood, so they were going to send the servants to get him out of there.

[72:29]

And he fainted. And then the father sort of realized what was going on, that his son didn't realize that he was their son, and that he actually was afraid of them. So then he got this idea, he was pretty smart. He thought, oh, he had one of his servants dressed up in rags and go down and offer this guy a job. So he woke the guy up out of his swoon. He said, you want a job? And the guy said, yeah, sure. Because of course he did want a job. He'd been needing a job for 50 years. So then he says, I'll give you a job shoveling elephant shit. And so the guy says, hey, that's good. I'll take that job. I can do that, I think. So he got that job, shoveling elephant shit. That's the six subtle Dharma gates, shoveling elephant shit.

[73:34]

So he did that for 20 years, and after doing 20 years, then the father himself dressed up in rags and went down and said, you've been doing a good job shoveling elephant shit. I'd like to make you manager of the crew. And the guy thought, okay, I can handle that. I know how to shovel shit really well now. I can be the manager. And he was a manager for also maybe 10, 15 years. After that, the father went down and said, you've been manager of this elephant shit shoveling crew for a long time. You've really done a good job. I want to offer you another promotion. You can come up to the house and learn how we run the house. And the guy thought, okay, great. I can handle that. I have some managerial skills now. And I know about one of your subsidiary industries. So he went up in the house, and his father taught him how all this vast wealth and products come into the house, into the family business, and how they get out, how to account for it all.

[74:38]

And he did that for another 20 or 30 years. Now the father, of course, says to the mother, we're getting old, dear. I think it's time that we actually turn the business over to the kid. So he says to the kid, now you know how the house works. He said, I'd actually like you to take over the business, just like you were my son. And the son says, OK, great. I think I can do it, just like I was your son. And the father says, as a matter of fact, by the way, you are my son. The son says, wow, I'm your son, how wonderful. I was your son all along. I was in the family all along. So, you know, that's called, the practice is hard, but easy to understand.

[75:39]

He understood, you know. He couldn't understand at the beginning. He thought, are you kidding? Me, finished, the course finished, I'm in the family? I'm in this family? I'm Buddha's kid? Like a blood relative? Like Buddha loves me like, you know, like everything? And loves everything like me? Can't believe that. I think I'll faint. But now you tell me about, you know, do this, then you do this, then you do this. I can understand that, but it's not easy. So... we have that course, and you can do that course, and anybody can do it, no problem, we have that course, but still, even if you want to do that course, and we're still telling you at the beginning, really, you're a Buddhist kid, and you're just going through this, because you just can't quite believe that you're a Buddhist kid, so you're going to go through this course of shoveling shit, learning the business, and all that stuff, for all these years, 70, 80, 90 years, you're going to go through this until you believe it. The other way...

[76:42]

is you start as Buddha's kid and then you start shoveling shit. But from the point of view of your Buddha's kid, it's your family business. It's not like you're kind of like a visitor to Buddhism, you know, or a guest in a rich house. and you're learning the business. It's your family business, and you're going to learn it. But now you've got to learn it without forgetting when you're down there. You can imagine if you come from a rich house, right, and they send you down to shovel shit, you start shoveling shit, you kind of figure, this is kind of shitty work. I can hardly remember that this is my own business, and this is my work here, and I'm doing this voluntarily. Because it's kind of like I've got to remember that I can do this without seeking to get upstairs. Yeah. So that's why the Soto Zen way is to start from being in the family and then go down and shovel shit, but try not to forget that you're not seeking to get up into the family by doing this.

[77:44]

Because when you're down there it seems kind of like something you would do and then go on to something more grandiose. But it says here, you know, even these ordinary things like shoveling shit or planting rice, eating rice, You have to do that thoroughly in order to understand the import of this basic work. But you understood the import before you even started, and yet you didn't. Because the nature of this family is that you deepen your understanding of the family by everything you do. So going down and talking to people, studying, working with people, having classes, all this stuff deepens your understanding of how you're in the family. It's family work. And you can convert people right into the family immediately, or if they've refused to accept that, you have a vehicle for them to convince themselves that they belong in the family.

[78:51]

So either type of person. either a person who wants proof or a person who just wants to be devoted, either type of person can be attracted into the family. But from the point of view of Buddha, they always were in the family, they don't have to do a single thing to get in the family, and yet Buddha will provide ways for people to trust themselves. But I want to offer this core thing at the beginning, so that when you start a sesshin you know from the beginning that you've finished. And from the beginning you can enjoy yourself, it's completely all right. Because why not enjoy yourself? You're Buddha's kid. You're the same blood and flesh as a Buddha. So enjoy yourself while you're shoveling shit. And there's a lot of shit shoveling to do during a sesshin, right? You have to handle a lot of dirty details. Right down here where the dirt is, you've got to take care of that area, right?

[79:58]

You have to keep every period several times. Well, not everybody. Some people have a lot of padding, so they never really have to do it. But I think even those who do have padding should still deal with that part of the body, the part where the elephant shit comes out. And then all that comes from there, all the emotional shit that comes up in there, you shovel that stuff. But you don't have to shovel it from the point of view of I'm going to get to be in Buddha's family. You can shovel it from the point of view I'm in Buddha's family, and this is the work I do, to unfold my family, my family, my blood, my family blood, the blood of compassion, which now... is actually attempting to flow into this person's problems right here, this particular person's problems of all places. I can hardly believe it. And very few people in Sesshin can actually believe it 24 hours a day, seven days, right?

[81:02]

In fact, sometimes they think, this is weird. I mean, how did I get into this job? I think I'd like a break. Why is it possible that the kid can't believe right away his father? That never happens. Say that again. Why can't the kid ever believe his father right off and say, okay, I believe you, I'll go right to the top? The kid can believe it right off the bat. People can believe it right off the bat. You can explain that in various ways. Either the kid in many past lifetimes has gone through that process, and can remember that, quite clearly, I am in Buddhist families, I've been in Buddhist families innumerable lifetimes, I love this practice, and that means I'm in Buddhist family. You can remember that right off, and so some people can believe that right off. And then your problem is how to carry on that work, how to unfold that, and you get caught in a very similar way to somebody who doesn't believe it.

[82:09]

when you actually get down to the details, when you're right down there in the mud with the guy next to you or the woman next to you who they don't believe it, you're right there with them. I mean, it's kind of like not that much different. And you're not actually... And you're actually not trying to emphasize the difference. You're trying to actually... Actually, you don't believe this, huh? You're kind of empathizing and you're kind of with their confusion, actually, even though another part of you is totally contented. But if you believe it, what would you be doing in the mud? What would you be running the house? Because our practice is to let go of that and go down. Running the house is to go down in the mud and relate to all your people. It is possible also to stay up in the house. The father didn't go down and shovel the shit, but he did put on the rags and go down there and went right into the shit-shoveling area to make contact with his son and help his son take the next step. He was actually down there. And probably he had other, he had innumerable sons and daughters, so he probably did that other places too.

[83:16]

But you can't just always hang out down in the mud, do you? You have to go up and hang on the mud of the marble and gold part of the house too. That's also mud. That can be much more devastating and much trickier. So the point is you circulate to all realms, three realms, you circulate to the entire world. That's why this question is saying, what about the world? What about the other realms? You should circulate to all the realms, all the beings. And letting go of the ultimate, we say, letting go of the ultimate and joining hands with all beings, walking through the mud. Then letting go of the ultimate means let go of Buddha. Let go of your family. and go right into it, and even forget about it. But still, even though you forgot about it, you knew it a minute ago and you'll remember again.

[84:18]

So it's this wonderful non-attachment process. So there's this intellectual exercise program in here in the beginning of the commentary in the verse about the Lankavatara Sutra. If anybody wants to study that, I'll be happy to study it with you. But I don't know if everybody is up for that. So maybe some people want to study about it. Let me know. You can study it. And so next time we'll start another case. I think we will, anyway. Case number 13. That Linji's blind ass. That won't be next Monday, right? That'll be a week from now. A week from Monday, which is the 10th or something like that. December 10th. December 10th is the...

[85:26]

It's a dear day in my, in my, hit my recent training in this life. I, that was the day that I went to Siddhartha Koresh and I said, okay with you if I go to Tassajara now? And he said, yeah, it's okay. You should, you should go ask them. I thought it was his birthday. Huh? Stacey's birthday. Stacey's birthday. It was, um, Them, you know, the administrators. People who have the application forms. What year was that? That was 1968. I'm just curious, why did Shishan and the others ignore this? In the beginning, in the story before the case? Why did they ignore him?

[86:29]

Why did they ignore him? Well, I don't want to explain this or anything, but they had just been out in the rain and cold, right? And they were huddled around in a little fire, warming their little hands and so on. And these are... These are... These are wonderful Buddha's disciples here, right? And this old abbot comes in and starts... Well, actually, he wasn't even in the room, I guess, yet. They just weren't going to pay their respects yet. They weren't particularly interested in studying with him. So he... He offered himself, even though they didn't want him. He offered himself. So he came forward before them. Normally they would come forward. Yeah, usually that would be the more usual way.

[87:30]

You pay your respects, but maybe they were really cold and they wanted to warm up first. And maybe they wouldn't have gone to see him until they were all warmed up. So he offered himself. He offered his friendship without them even asking. and they had this interchange, and Fa Yen kind of thought maybe there was something to him, and decided to stay around for a while. But in a way, part of the play here is that these guys weren't seeking anything, in a way, you could say. These guys were not, these were Buddhist monks who... This is the abbot, so what? But maybe that was a little bit too much into the Nazi, so Fa Yan decided to stay. But still, it was right on the edge there. These were kind of rough and tumble, you know, not too much into protocol on that occasion, were they? It seemed like he had a chip on his shoulder or something.

[88:34]

All three of them? No, Shushan. Oh, it does seem like that, yes, uh-huh. It does seem like he had a chip on his shoulder. But then again, Ditsong kind of, well, yeah, it did seem that way a little bit. But then again, you see, these are arms and legs, right? Whether the person realizes it or not, they're arms and legs. You can do arms and legs of respect. You can do arms and legs of planning a race and eating lunch. You can do arms and legs of fancy talk. Question is, are you caught? Question is, are you holding on to anything? Maybe Xuesheng was putting out this apparent disrespect or feistiness.

[89:50]

Maybe he was putting out there as his most sincere gesture of playfulness and love, completely completely responding and playing right into Di Cang's hands, giving Di Cang a chance to bring forth his wonderful disciple, Fa Yin. And then in the later discussion, too, maybe Xishan was very helpful to Fa Yin. So what is it like when you see everything that's happening as the unfoldment of perfection? What would that be like? Even contentment and sincerity, does that have any particular marks?

[91:05]

Like sometimes we think, I'm really not content, I'm really impatient. So this isn't contentment? And in this state, this is not the unfoldment of my true fortune and purity. This is not it. This couldn't be it, because this is impatience, irritation, and a bunch of other crappy stuff. I'm just a dirty mess. So this is not the time when my life is going to be realized.

[92:14]

It's not going to be now. It's going to be some other time.

[92:19]

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