Some people call this Saturday night. And as I was coming over here I noticed that somebody in the room next to mine was watching TV, color TV. There was a big face of somebody. People are caught at restaurants now, some of them. Some people are watching TV other places and going to movies. And so we're here. And Saturday night party. And so we could do some fun things, like we could chant the Heart Seed Tripp. Would you like to? We don't really have anything better to do, do we?

[01:07]

There's no TV competition. Unless you want to go over there and join that guy. Pardon? That's the tricky part about can we chant the Heart Sutra without thinking we're better than those people who are watching other channels. This is what we're doing, okay? This is our... Right now in America, not too many places are 50 people or so getting together and chanting the Heart Sutra. Nice, huh? All right. Hit it, Tim. ...to try... ...to try... ...to try...

[02:25]

is is There is no fear, as I am here, as there is self-form, sensation, perception, exploration. There is no fear, as I am here, as there is self-form, Thank you. Formation, dark ocean, the stress, the fear, the strong body, all mine, all sights, all sounds, face, touch, all objects, all mine, all worlds, I am eternal, eternally known.

[03:59]

My conscious little sphere, there's me, there's me, there's me, there's me. and says, roughly, you know, you're old age and therefore extinction of old age. We know of the cessation, you also have known of old age and so on. Without cling to a thing I would be starved, but I realize I'm not as young. One year is without hindrance, without hindrance there is no clear fire beyond all inverted years. Nirvana, your Buddha, the past, present, future, rely on Prajnaparamita.

[05:06]

He thereby unsees the surface, complete, perfect, in white human, therefore know the Prajnaparamita. The great miraculous mantra, the great right mantra, the two pre-mantra, the incomparable mantra, which removes all suffering and is true, not false. Thank you for watching. Someone said to me recently that he feels, sometimes he feels, often he feels a kind of a... as though he...

[06:39]

present in a kind of vibration, or a kind of vibrational resonance with everything. Everything's flowing and in harmony and it's cool. Sometimes you lose track of it, it forgets that. get sort of off, away from that vibration. And he asked me why I think that he loses it or forgets it. I said, I think he's trying to get something. And then if one can let go of getting something, one may again feel re-included in this harmonious vibration, this good vibration. And that's kind of another way to talk about what we have been talking about.

[07:49]

Even though we're happy to be in some cosmos in its harmony, So even if we're feeling a cosmic vibration or a harmonious vibration that completely includes and supports us, and we feel like everything's supporting us, and we're kind of happy there, some part of us makes that home. Or then there's also the theme, you know, at the cocktail party, you meet someone, what is it? I was going on. Some enchanted evening, you may see a stranger. You may see a stranger across the crowded room. And somehow you know, you know even then. You know that song?

[08:57]

And then you meet. and there's this resonant, harmonious thing happening, and then somebody says, now what should we do? You know, everybody's happy to meet and have this wonderful meeting, but then people sometimes say, well, what should we do now? We have to do something, right? Get something. It's hard just to keep being there like a resonant, harmonious being. Where's the eggs? But in order to get the eggs, you've got to become a chicken, which of course isn't true, but I like those eggs. You've got to stop being this kind of like, become a chicken.

[10:01]

That's one story about the reason why we retract of this harmonious, interdependent way that we live. Because you can't get a hold of interdependence because you're not outside of it. You can't own it or disown it. You can't own him or her, and they can't own you, which doesn't make much of a story. But we know what to do about that. Just apply your imagination to this thing, make it into something that you can get, and then you got something. Then you lose this other thing. This other thing is obscured. Someone else said, And I think I understand what the idea of an independent self is, and that that's an illusion.

[11:09]

And I also think I understand what interdependence is, and that really makes sense to me. I think it's realistically valid and seems reasonable. I understand those two. So all things have this other interdependent, other dependent nature. And then all things, as soon as they become things, they have this imaginary self-nature. But then the third quality is hard for me to understand. And the third quality being the thoroughly established character, the emptiness, or the way things really are. And the way things really are, in one sense, is that everything is interdependent, kind of the way they really are, but not quite.

[12:19]

So the Buddha teaches that everything is a dependent core arising, but the Buddha doesn't say, I don't think the Buddha says, that the way everything is, is dependent core arising. Not quite. Everything's a dependent core arising, but we don't necessarily say that that's the way things really are. But it's close. Because everything is a dependent core arising, so that's kind of the way everything is, but the Buddha doesn't use it the way things really are. It's one kind of a little step further. And the step further is a further step into the way things are other-powered. So everything's other-powered, but the way all these things which are other-powered is,

[13:28]

are, is that the other-powered things are free of all of our ideas of others. But that's not even quite the way they really are, because it's not them being free of our ideas, but it's actually the freedom from our ideas which is the way they really are. This great resonance that we are right now, now has changed and now we have another great resonance. So this is, we are fleeting, non-separate beings. We are fleeting, interdependent beings. And we're fleeting because we're interdependent. We're fleeting because we all depend on things other than ourselves. We can't keep ourselves going.

[14:31]

And other things don't keep us going either. They're not dependable to keep us going. They make us, but they don't make us later. They make us into a new person. That's our interdependence. And that's the way everything that happens, happens. But the way that that interdependence really is, is that interdependence is actually void of or empty of any idea we have about how that interdependence is. So our small-scale ideas about interdependence, by which we can grasp it, don't reach our interdependent, fleeting nature. That's their emptiness. So whenever we make an interdependent thing into, like, a person, and say it's a John or a Donna, now we have something we can grasp, something we can be aware of that appears before us.

[15:48]

That's nice. And we can name it. That's good. That's useful. There's nothing about this person which our imaginary nature reaches. There's nothing about the person at the imaginary nature. The person is empty, completely void, this inherent existence which we put on the person. So the lack of imagination clarifies the nature of interdependence. In other words, interdependence in general interdependence in a particular case is elucidated by the teaching of emptiness which says no idea that you have of how things are interdependent actually is present in the interdependence.

[16:58]

And here's a big parenthesis which I'm going to try to close fast. This fact of interdependence or dependent core arising being emptiness or being empty of any about it is why interdependence is not deterministic. Closed parentheses. And if you want to open the parentheses later, fine. But I just wanted to put that out there for further discussion. I don't want to get into it right now. It's OK with you. Is it? Open parentheses. The teaching of emptiness is an elucidation of the principle of dependent co-arising. The Buddha taught that everything exists in dependence on things other than itself and does not exist in dependence on itself.

[18:08]

Nothing makes itself, everything is made by things other than itself. The teaching of emptiness is saying that any idea I have or you have about how this is actually a small-scale version of it, it's making it into a conceptual version which is a limited version. Even if it's a complex scientific theory, it's still a small version of the story because it's still conceptual. And this process of dependent core arising is not conceptual. but in order to get a hold of it we have to make a concept or image of it. And we can do that. But actually this thing is free of any kind of conceptual rendition of it. And that otherwise, if it wasn't free of it, then it could be deterministic and freedom would not be possible.

[19:12]

but it's free of anybody's idea of how it goes, therefore it is determined. In other words, your life isn't determined, even though your life is determined by the conditions which give rise to it, it's not over-determined or deterministic. In other words, it's free. So the teaching of emptiness is, in a sense, the Buddha's early teaching of dependent core arising from his first teachings he taught dependent core arising. He said, there's the truth of suffering and the truth of the origins of suffering. In other words, suffering arises dependent on something. Therefore, suffering is impermanent. Suffering doesn't have a self. Actually, in what suffering arises, independence on of the way things are,

[20:22]

and belief in inherent existence. That's the origin of suffering. He's teaching dependent co-arising from the early days of his teaching. He continued to teach dependent co-arising throughout his teaching. And the teaching of emptiness appeared to elucidate the nature of this dependency. And the nature of this dependency by which we exist, which the Buddha taught, is that this dependency lacks anybody's idea about it. And about it is a way that it can be grasped. But this inner dependency cannot be grasped for many reasons. But one of the reasons, obviously, it can't be grasped is because there's nobody outside of it to grasp it. But another reason why it can't be grasped is because it is free of any limited idea. The only way we can grasp or know our other dependent nature is by taking it to being,

[21:38]

What's the only way we can know our other dependent nature? Don't be afraid. This is a test. Okay, so if you make it deterministic, you can know it. That's what you're saying? And how do you make it, huh? you can come to know it. And how could you make it deterministic? Use your imagination. Make this thing, which is free of imagination, make an imaginary version of it. Then you can know it. So the way we know our dependently co-arisen nature, which is the way we actually happen, the way we know we are created, is by taking it to be, or holding to it as, our idea of it. which of course is confusion, but that's the way we know it.

[22:45]

The way we know interdependence is by our imagination of interdependence, which is not correct. And by thinking that interdependence is our idea of interdependence, that is a source of suffering. Then suffering arises. We can't actually get around and see interdependence You know, we can't get at it indirectly by avoiding the imagination of it. It's there actually, already free of our imagination, but once our imagination is there we can't get around our imagination because we like our imagination because we get eggs. We like our imagination because it looks clearer and sharper than that foggy old harmonious resonance. So we confuse our idea, we hold to our idea, we hold to our imagination as being interdependent, and that blocks us from seeing it.

[23:58]

However, it is possible to do this other route, which is you can hear the teaching of interdependence, And while you hear the teaching of interdependence, you're hearing a conceptual version of it. But still, if you meditate on the conceptual version, you're not looking at the... You can't see, when you look at someone, you can't see they're interdependent, they're dependent on the co-arisen nature. What you see is the way you know them The way you know interdependent beings is as your limited idea of them. You can listen to a teaching which says that this person is interdependent even though you see them as independent. You can hear a teaching which is that way. And as you listen to the teaching, while you're simultaneously looking at the person, You're looking at the independent person, a person who appears independent, and you're listening to a teaching which says, they're not independent, they're interdependent, they're dependent.

[25:09]

You're listening to that teaching, you're listening to that teaching. When you look at somebody and you see them as independent, that way of seeing them enchants you. You enchant concerning that person. When you listen to the teaching, you start to understand that this person who you have enchanted yourself about, who you think as independent and permanent, you're hearing that they're interdependent. And the more you hear that, you realize this person who seems to be independent and permanent is actually impermanent, unstable, not worthy of confidence. This person is not worthy of confidence. So what about if you're looking at the Buddha? Isn't the Buddha worthy of confidence? What you're looking at is the image of the Buddha. It's not the Buddha. Behind the image of the Buddha is the interdependent Buddha. But the interdependent Buddha is also not worthy of confidence. It's also unstable, changing.

[26:12]

Okay? If you remember that, then you disenchant yourself about the Buddha. or the ordinary person. You become disenchanted. And when you become disenchanted, you let go of excessive involvement with this person. When you let go of this person, you let go of wrongdoing and rightdoing or virtue arises in your life. Now, based on this meditation, you're ready to take the next step and receive a teaching about the nature of this interdependence. It's empty of any idea you have about it. While you've been listening to this teaching, you've had some idea about it. But now you're ready to realize that your ideas about the interdependence, which have been very useful to you,

[27:19]

along the path a great distance that made you ready now to let go of any ideas you have about interdependence. Or look and see if you can convince yourself that no idea No imagination about interdependence actually reaches it. In other words, your interdependent nature is empty of any inherent existence, independent existence of any self. So emptiness of things is how the interdependent nature is the fact that the interdependent nature lacks any conceptual overlay.

[28:28]

And to actually understand and see that emptiness, that lack, purifies, that's what purifies of any obstruction to perfect wisdom. So there's a difference between looking at interdependence and meditating on interdependence, and meditating on how interdependence lacks idea of what it is, and how no idea of what it is is actually there, actually relates to it. However, if you do have an idea of it, that just brings you back to your normal of things you can grasp. And that's the imaginary life, which we are quite familiar with. That's our normal life. So, again, as you think about your normal life, which is to see independent things, and you hear the teaching of independence, when you first have independence, you actually put an idea on that teaching, which

[29:46]

inhibits you from directly relating to it.

[29:49]

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