I had an expectation that today would be the 21st of September which sometimes people say is the first day of autumn. And then around the 21st of September which is sometimes called the first day of autumn There's also the autumn equinox. And today we are, I feel blessed, maybe you do too, on the dry earth of California. Hopefully, There'll be a little pause in the blessed rain to allow us to play on the land during work. Also, I wish to celebrate that Mr. Swinson is here today after he had a

[01:22]

a major surgical experience where I guess your chest was opened up, is that right? He opened up his chest and put it back together and here he is. So that's great. For a while he was thinking that his bicycle, something was wrong with it. It wasn't that the wheels weren't turning very well. I think I hear the sound of rain on the roof of the temple. Do you know the song? You and Me and Rain on the Roof?

[02:31]

No, would you sing it, please? Speak it. You and Me and Rain on the Roof. A conversation sitting in the haze. And that's as much as I recall. Listen to the rhythm of that pouring rain. That to me just would pull that thing. You listen to this morning's talk like you're listening to the rain.

[03:51]

This temple is no abode, which I've heard is an abbreviation of the mind of no abode. The mind of no abode is an expression offered in the the diamond of perfection wisdom scripture, where the Buddha says that the bodhisattvas should give rise to a mind of no abode. And that mind of no-abode is central to the path and also central to the history of Zen because the great sixth ancestor of the Zen tradition when he heard the sutra saying give rise to a mind of no-abode he awoke

[06:01]

to the mind of no abode and proceeded to become the great teacher from whom all the almost all the Zen traditions so we name this temple after that mind the mind of the being who is evolving towards Buddhahood And then many descendants of the sixth ancestor, all the many great teachers in China and Japan and Korea, they taught this mind of no abode. They tried to encourage people. Mind of no abode by which we enter perfect wisdom and great enlightenment.

[07:07]

And they spoke in different ways on different occasions. Sometimes they talked about the rain. Sometimes they talked about the wind. Sometimes they talked about the forest. Sometimes they talked about the mountains. But they were always trying to encourage people to this mind of no abode by which we enter perfect wisdom. I was reading one of the examples This kind of teaching and I wanted to share it with you and maybe I will. A teaching to encourage the meditation on this mind which doesn't dwell anywhere or cling to anything.

[08:19]

But I also want to prepare you for this teaching. And one way I attempted to prepare you for this teaching was by suggesting that you listen like you listen to the rain. This is a teaching not to be grasped by the grasping mind. Let's listen to the rain so you can receive the teaching with your whole body and mind. Receive it without grasping it. Yesterday I brought a car an automobile which I take care of and it takes care of me.

[09:35]

I took it in to have some work done on its body surface. I felt a little embarrassed to bring it in because the problem was so small. But I thought, you know, if I don't take care of it, maybe the problem will become larger. The problem was that the rear bumper cover, what I used to call, yeah, used to be, now it's actually a cover on the bumper. It was kind of coming loose. the bumper hadn't fallen off, but, you know, it was coming loose. Just a little bit. But I thought, well, maybe I should take it in and have them reconnect it so it doesn't fall off. Because it seems to be headed in that direction.

[10:46]

And so I brought it in and they worked on it. And I waited for it because they just said it wouldn't take long. And while I was waiting, I took a walk. And then I came back. And I still wasn't ready. So I sat out in front of this body shop. Auto body shop. And I looked. across the street and there was a construction site and there were about five or ten construction workers working there and I watched them work. I wondered what their intention in this life is. And I was thinking about you folks coming here today.

[11:56]

I wouldn't necessarily walk across the street and ask those construction workers if they wanted me to talk to them about the mind of no abode. or if they wanted me to talk to them about the work, the great work of transcending Buddha. The great activity of going beyond Buddha probably wouldn't be appropriate for me to talk to them right off. I probably should find out more about them before I brought it up. I watched them working and I noticed that mostly mostly they were looking down to the ground, which seemed like a good idea because otherwise they might trip on the of the ground and the building. Once the building's done, I guess people might be able to walk around in it without looking down because the surfaces will be even.

[13:14]

But they were looking down mostly. Occasionally they would look up. But I didn't, I watched and they almost never looked up. And again, I thought, well, that's good. Because if they look up, they might trip and fall. But while they were looking down, I wondered, what are they, what is, what do they do here? Are they wishing to work skillfully? Are they wishing to receive remuneration for their work so that they can take care of their families? What is their motivation in doing the work? My motivation is My motivation is to understand their I wish to understand their intentions so that I can know how to respond in terms of their concerns in life.

[14:29]

And in lieu of more information, I felt like the appropriate thing to do was sit there and watch them and wonder what their intention was. And I also thought, when I go to no abode tomorrow, this was yesterday morning, I'll tell people about my motivation as I now say that I do that so I can wonder about what yours is. Because I don't know what your most important wish in this life is. If you want to realize enlightenment in order to benefit all beings, then the teaching of the mind of no-bode would be just the right thing for you. But I don't know if you're actually wishing

[15:37]

in order to realize enlightenment and freedom for the welfare of all beings. So I respectfully tell you that I'm wondering about that and then wondering if a teaching for bodhisattvas would be appropriate to offer. And again, I hope that you listen to my talk like you listen to the rain. I imagine that we're not having a difficult time listening to the rain, that we're comfortable listening to the rain. It's not coming down so hard that we're frightened by it, even though the roof seems to be leaking.

[16:54]

We're not terribly afraid. This is one of the traditional spots. I've heard that many meditators I really enjoy sitting upright to the rain. The sound of the rain seems to be a really nice instruction. Like, listen to me and you'll be happy.

[17:57]

Even though you may not have trouble listening to me, if you listen to me, you may also be able to listen to the cries of the world of suffering at the same time. If you can open to the sound of the rain, more and more. one of our ancestors in China who lived one, two,

[19:10]

three, four, five generations after the sixth ancestor. So here's the sixth ancestor, the source of many Zen lineages, almost all Zen lineages, who was initiated into enlightenment by the teaching of the mantra. the mind of no abode, was his gateway to enlightenment. And then he had many disciples, and one of the lineages is to Seigen Gyoshi, or Chingyura on Shinsa, and then Shirto, and then Yaoshan, and then yin-yin, and then dung-shan.

[20:17]

So now five generations after the sixth ancestor, the teaching of the mind of no-abode is coming down five generations, and now we have dung-shan. And one day, He taught his group. He said, if you bodily attain the activity of the ascendant state of Buddha, you will possess the means to speak a little. So apparently he was the first ancestor in China to talk about the work, the activity, transcending Buddha, the transcending Buddha work, the activity of going beyond Buddha.

[21:50]

Apparently he was the first one to express this in China. And he said, to utterly attain this activity of transcending Buddha, you will truly possess the means to speak a little. He's given his teaching to help people enter wisdom. I guess he thought that the monks who were assembled wished to enter perfect wisdom, so he gave them this teaching. I don't know if you want to, but I'm giving you this teaching anyway. Is that all right? Yes. So then a monk comes up and says, what is such... What is such speech that I would be able to do a little if I bodily attained the work of transcending Buddha?

[23:17]

What kind of speech is that? Because most people already know how to talk more than a little. Like this little girl who's coming out to Green Gulch today and staying the night named Frankie. She can speak quite a bit. So maybe he's referring to a speech which you would be able to perform if you bodily attained going beyond Buddha. What kind of speech is this?" the monk asked. And he said, the teacher Dung Shan said, For example, when speaking, venerable monk, you are not listening. And the monk said, does the master himself listen or not?

[24:26]

And the teacher said, when I'm not speaking, then I listen. If I asked you to repeat that dialogue, I guess not all of you would be able to. Is that right? At least one of you wouldn't be able to, right? Yeah. Okay. Now, just to make life more interesting, I'll read it to you again in a different way, a different translation. The teacher Dung Shan once taught his assembly like this. Concerning realization through the body of going beyond I would like to talk a little.

[25:43]

So the first time he says, if you can realize with your body the work of translation, you will obtain the means to speak a little. This translation says, concerning the realization of going beyond Buddha, to speak a little. It doesn't contradict the previous one because if he has realized through the body this transcending, he can speak a little. And he just did. So, Shall I tell the rest and come back later?

[26:55]

So a monk says, What is this talk that you're doing? And the teacher says, When I talk, you don't hear it. The monk says, do you hear it, teacher? The teacher, Dung Shan, says, wait, tell, I don't talk, then you hear it. Now, as I talk to you like this, I think, this sounds like a wonderful example of teaching the mind of no abode. So in a way, there could be a simple, like a childlike view of this.

[28:08]

If you wish to attain Buddhahood, then it's recommended in the Wisdom Diamond Sutra, if you wish to attain Buddhahood in order to benefit all beings, the Diamond Sutra says, well, produce the mind of no abode. that doesn't dwell anywhere, then you'll be able to become Buddha, realize Buddhahood. So in order to be realized Buddhahood, you need to have a mind which doesn't abide in realizing Buddhahood. In order to realize Buddhahood, you must transcend Buddhahood. Transcending Buddhahood is always Buddhahood. Buddhahood is always transcending Buddhahood. In a way, you could say, well, all of us have done a pretty good job of transcending Buddhahood because we're not attached to being Buddha.

[29:18]

Or are we? I was moved to read this when I thought about realizing with the body, right now I got this body here, realizing with, you could say this body, realizing with the body, going beyond Buddha. I'm saying a little about realizing going beyond Buddha.

[30:26]

I'm saying a little about realizing with the body and through the body and by the body transcending Buddha. And you might ask me, What talk is this? Or what is this talk? But you might not ask me that because you might not want to copy the monk from ancient times. You might want to ask me another question. But you might be shy to ask me another question because You might feel like you don't have one as good as that monk had. What is this speech? What is this talk? This talk about transcending Buddha through the body.

[31:32]

Anyway, I was touched by the thought of through the body. moment by moment, through the body, with the body, realizing going beyond Buddha. And now I'm telling you that again and I'm re-moved by the teaching of realizing this teaching of going beyond Buddha with the body, therefore being able to speak a little. I've heard the teaching of going beyond Buddha, so I can think of the teaching of going beyond Buddha and then now use the body to realize and be able to speak a little.

[32:42]

But is this speech that kind of speech? If it was that kind of speech, then when I gave this speech, There's still a little bit of tea left in this cup. May I drink it? Thank you. Actually, I would like more later. Thank you for asking.

[33:48]

I do have my needs. So the great ancestor brought up this great topic of transcending Buddha. The great work of Buddhas to transcending Buddhas. He brought it up into the world and told people about it. And then he said, Speak a little. So I spoke a little and it's already been going on for walking. Was I speaking a little when I mentioned that it was raining?

[34:49]

One more translation for your benefit. Master Dung Shan said, if you would experience that which transcends even Buddha, wow. He didn't say wow. I said wow. If you would experience that which transcends even Buddha, you must first be capable of simple conversation. Free translations. One saying, if you can realize with the body transcending Buddha, you will have the means to speak a little. Another one says, about transcending Buddha through the body, I'd like to speak a little.

[36:10]

Oh, no. The other one says, concerning, and I'm going to speak a little bit. The third one says, if you want to experience with your body, mind, the The transcending of Buddha, you must be capable of a simple conversation. Again, someone might think, well, I can have a simple conversation. And I would say, well, good. If you can, then you can go to work. Transcending Buddha. And a monk says... what is this kind of conversation? Or actually, the more literal way is, what is conversation?

[37:20]

The teacher said, when I was conversing, you didn't hear. And then the monk said, did you hear, master? And the teacher says, when I was conversing, Often times when some teaching is really spinning intensely in this world, it's kind of nice when it gets translated because the number of translations is about the number of ways it's translated. it has such intensity that the words just spin off it and go in many different directions. But I think maybe you can feel, perhaps, that all of these are different translations. They're all kind of like intense form of life, of where enlightenment, of where the mind of no abode is transcending the mind of no abode, where Buddha is not dwelling in Buddha,

[38:36]

where this body is transcending itself, becoming Buddha, and transcending, transcending. And then, in order to realize this, there's some conversation. And one humorous... This is all a grand justification for talking. We are blessed with eight more stories about teachings about Buddhas, transcending Buddhas. This is the first one.

[39:38]

Do you want to speak a little? Do you want to talk a little? Do you want to have a simple conversation? Yes. Yes? Please. So in all of those translations, the reference to through the body, with the body, it's all referring to this incarnation, using this body-mind to transcend Buddha. Using this body-mind or using this mind to transcend Buddha and to talk a little. Mind, body and speech. We need to use speech and visualize this mind with the body.

[41:02]

We need the body and the mind in order to speak. So it seems like, and I don't know Chinese or translation obviously, but it seems that rather than the referring to communication, discourse, interaction, whether it's verbal or some other way? It could, but I wouldn't want to say, I wouldn't want you to try to avoid the interaction of speech. This physical interaction is part of, you know, non-verbal interaction is really important. Our mother wasn't necessarily talking to us when we moved into and out of her body. Somehow we got inside of our mothers, I guess. Most of us had mothers. Some woman's body, and we interacted with her, right?

[42:04]

She might have been talking to us, but some of our mothers might not have said anything. So that's an important physical interaction between bodies. This is saying, also got to talk. I think we have to talk ourselves into transcending Buddha, into transcending Buddha with our body. And if we get into transcending Buddha with our body, we will be able to talk. It says, if you... doesn't say this, I'll just say it, what the translation says, if you do enter into realizing transcending Buddha with your body, you'll be able to talk. Another one says, if you, not if you do, it sort of says, I have. entered into realizing transcending Buddha with this body, and I want to talk a little.

[43:09]

The other one says, you have to have a conversation in order to do this. So the three translations are great because we have to talk ourselves to the bodily realization of transcending Buddha. The Buddha ancestors are talking us into the physical realization of the mind of no-bode. And when we actually enter into this physical realization of the mind of no-bode, having a conversation which our mind is participating in and our body is participating in, we will be able to speak and we'll want to. So the physical part's important, but you have to do all three kinds of action, mental, physical, and verbal. And most people, at some point in the process, they need the verbal in order to actually understand the physical.

[44:13]

So some people are pushed into entry, pushed into the physical entry it looks like the physical entry into realizing transcending Buddha happened without anybody saying anything. But if you look at the bigger part of the story, somebody told them to go work on their body. So, I told you here many times is Xiang Yan was very good at talking. very brilliant in terms of studying the scriptures and speaking about them. And his teacher, his elder brother teacher, Guishan said, I don't want to hear from you. He's talking to him. He's saying a little. He's saying, I don't want you to talk. I don't want to talk to you anymore. I want you to say something to me from before you could talk. And then he goes and he just physically takes care of the ground.

[45:18]

No more study. the pebble hits the bamboo, that physical act, he enters into the mind of no abode. So, there's a cycle here. We use words to help us enter this practice. And the teacher said, I want you to stop talking and go to the physical place where there's no talking. And from that place, I want you to talk to me. So we're using words into the physical bodily realization of going beyond Buddha. And when we get to that place, we are being told that we must talk, we will want to talk, and we'll be able to talk. We'll be able to talk, and we must.

[46:20]

We must, and we'll be able to, and we'll want to. And somebody talked us, the ancestors are now talking to us, talking us into the physical realization of this transcendent mind. We're using words to enter into the physical realization of it. We must talk. We will talk. We'll want to talk. And the question is, what kind of talk is it? And then we're off to the races. So the physical part is not verbal. I mean, there's a... One is verbal and one is postural. The physical posture, the listening to the rain, can be not verbal. The touch on the cheek... can be not verbal. And we can realize transcending Buddha by feeling the cool hand on the cheek. But we're not going to be able to do that unless somebody gives us some instruction about paying attention to our cheeks.

[47:28]

And then we wholeheartedly feel the hand on the cheek We enter, wholeheartedly enter into transcending Buddha, and then we can speak from there. And it's a new kind of speech. So, transcending Buddha, is that another way of saying what you might know about? Yes. When I think of transcending something, I think of going beyond, surpassing. That's right. Well, entering the mind of no abode means surpassing the abode of the mind. You're entering no abode. You're entering not dwelling anywhere. You're entering transcendence. So we frequently talk of attaining Buddhahood without...

[48:34]

Yeah. Grasping it. But now we're talking about not just attaining, but going beyond it. Well, you said it. Attaining Buddha without grasping it is the same as attaining Buddha and going beyond it. But even further, attaining Buddha and not grasping is almost exactly the same as attaining Buddha or transcending Buddha. Okay? But a further turn of the phrase is Not grasping is Buddha, and transcending is Buddha. So transcending Buddha is Buddha. Not dwelling in Buddha is Buddha. Grasping Buddha is Buddha. So attaining Buddha is not grasping Buddha, or it's not exactly attaining and not grasping. or attaining and going beyond. Going beyond is attaining. Not grasping is attaining.

[49:41]

Buddha is not grasping. Buddha is transcending Buddha. And we need to have a conversation in order to enter the transcendence. And if we enter the transcendence, we have to talk. So the Buddha had to talk. And the Buddha did talk. Quite a bit, a little. Always a little. We could say, little, little, little. Okay, yes, Karen, at high noon. I don't know how this fits, but what's coming out for me is a situation in which speech is dangerous. It's really powerful. And it's If there's any danger, I'm not saying there is danger, but if there's any danger, speech is right at the center of the danger. Speech is the essence. However, the way to become free in all dangerous situations, if there are any, is with speech.

[50:52]

It isn't just this speech that's dangerous. Harsh speech is also dangerous. Lying is dangerous. There's lots of kinds of speech that are dangerous. This type of speech doesn't violate the precepts. However, the way people hear it, it can be misunderstood and that could cause harm. Danger is a possibility of the harm. It's not the harm itself. So that's why I say, I wonder, even telling you this teaching is somewhat dangerous. That's why I ask you to listen to it like this. That may protect you from grasping it. If you grasp this teaching, it would not be good. And this teaching you might try to grasp, and that would not be good. When I was a kid, when I was 12 years old, a friend of mine told me of this fun game called hopping trains, hopping freight trains.

[52:08]

And the first train we hopped, we hopped when it was sitting still. The train was sitting there, we got up in the train, and then the train took off, we got a ride in. Kids are riding the train. Very exciting. We'd seen a few movies. And then one day, and that was in the winter, the first time we went. It's nice to see, actually, in Minnesota, it's nice to hop trains in the winter because you jump off, you jump into the snow, which is nice, rather than jumping on gravel and so on. So this is winter train hopping. So then another day we went hopping a train, but this time, for some reason or other, the train was moving already, and I think it was moving maybe 30 miles an hour. And 12-year-old boy, it's winter too, so when your hands grab a metal rung of a ladder, actually the cold makes it easy to get a good grip because you're a little bit on...

[53:19]

You can get a good drip on the cold at first. So I grabbed the ladder on the side of the boxcar, and I grabbed it, and it was going fast, 30 miles an hour, so it flipped me in the air and threw me down right next to the tracks. And it was an incline going down the tracks, and I did not roll under the tracks, as you may be able to guess. laughter But I did notice how close I came to getting run over by those wheels. And I thought, this is not a good idea. I'm not going to do that anymore. And then I saw a movie, which is where I got the idea in the first place that this would be a cool thing to do. But this movie was starring William Holden. It's called Picnic. and he was wearing a leather jacket just like a... And he ran alongside the train.

[54:23]

I said, oh, that's what you do. You run alongside the train. Then you can grasp that it's not so dangerous. So run alongside... It's not so dangerous. Don't just try to grab it flat-footed. Yes? It seems to me that Buddha is already... We didn't say Buddha beyond Buddha. Well, what you said then. No, going beyond Buddha, not to another Buddha. Well... I'm just talking to you. I know. Yes? I'm going to mention my trail. Really? Yes. When? Yeah. Well, go ahead.

[55:25]

So, future Buddha Maitreya, loving kind. You did it. You said it. Is that a friend of yours? Yes. Wow. He's here. Well, introduce me. Please. I would like you to enjoy your generosity. and ethics and patience and enthusiasm and concentration and permissive welcoming or wisdom. Is this the new teaching of Maitreya? This is the one that I think makes sense of what I'm inquiring about. Okay. This is physical stuff. The perfection is physical, very embodied. Yeah?

[56:29]

I hope so. Are they also mental? They allow mentality to be responsive. Do they allow physicality to be responsive in the same way? I believe they do. And how about, are the perceptions verbal? They're verbal and they're responsive to other beings. They're verbal when they're responsive to other beings, and are they physical when they're responsive to other beings? Yes. And are they mental when they're responsive to other beings? Recognizing other beings, I think, is mental. Pardon? Recognizing other beings is mental. Recognizing the difference without separation. Perfections? I think that's the fruit of the Perfections. Oh, okay, so it's the fruit. I got it. Is it also them? I can't point a separation.

[57:34]

So maybe they are. Is that right? Maybe they and their fruit are the same, perhaps? I would think our Buddha nature is the same, yeah. Okay. Thank you for introducing me to Maitreya. Yes and yes. I was thinking about the first translation. You seem to be welcoming all three of them together. Thank you. The first one, when he said, When I speak, you don't hear me. When I get quiet, you will hear. So what do you make of that? He says, yes, you're right. when speaking, you are not listening. And then he finishes by saying, when I'm not speaking, then I listen.

[58:38]

When I talk, you don't hear it. And it ends by saying, wait till I don't talk, then you'll hear it. Yeah, that one. I thought I understood it, but it doesn't kind of fit with what... You thought you understood it, yeah? That doesn't fit with what I'm saying. What I'm saying is the transcending of thought that you understood it, that fits with it. I'm getting ready. Good. Yes? Did you say speaking is not only dangerous, but the only important thing? I don't think I did say that. I said speaking is dangerous, but in order to become free of danger, we need to speak.

[59:48]

Okay. So two things, okay? Speech is the essence of karma, but we must use free speech to be free of karma. Okay, so I'd like to hear more about that, how it's the essence of karma. Number one, it seems to me, don't you mean that, doesn't that be right speech? Certainly not just any old speech. Number one. Does that be right speech in order to liberate beings? Yes. Sure does. Gee whiz. Is gee whiz the right speech? Yes? I appreciate that. Because I've been spending X years with you trying to speak less. I wonder what it would have been like if you had... You said that. I'm still serious.

[60:49]

I mean, really. So it's very shocking for me. You're still serious after all this time? I am surprised. You're surprised by what? By you saying speech is so important. Speech is so important? Yeah. Okay, well... That's one of the good things about being you is you keep being surprised. That's one of your blessings is that you keep being surprised and I keep hearing about it. Great. Surprise is not... the essence of karma. Surprise is essential to liberation. So you're surprised, you're surprised when you're good, especially if you're not too serious when you're surprised. So surprise is good. And so back to what you said I said, speech is important because speech is how we get into trouble and speech will be necessary to get out of trouble.

[61:59]

Because I thought what's important is patience and ethics and all that stuff, and I didn't hear speech in any of that. And now all of a sudden today, speech is something else. Speech is not a... Speech is on the... You know, if you look at the practices of ethics, for example, part of ethics practice is to speak in certain ways, like to speak truth is part of ethics. But also, when people are speaking, when you're speaking, or when others are speaking, we don't just... it isn't just that we're doing right speech, but also we're being generous with the speech and patient with the speech and diligent with the speech and calm with the speech. So speech is not actually, when you talk about the six basic training methods, speech isn't standing out there as six, but it's included in all six. But also, speech is also karma.

[63:10]

So even people who are not practicing these six bodhisattva training methods are still doing speech by which they construct their world of suffering. So speech is essential to create the world of birth and death. So it's really important in that way. But it's also important in order to convey the teachings, in order to receive the teachings, because when a teaching is We convert the teachings to word images. So people who have not heard the teachings, who have not received the teachings in terms of speech, who have not, they're still speaking and still in trouble. They're still saying, you know, you're wrong and I'm right. I hate you. You don't respect me. I want to kill you. People do not have to practice these bodhisattva practices precepts in order to talk like that. So they're in trouble.

[64:14]

And speech is at the center of the trouble. How the teaching which will liberate him from the trouble which is created by speech, that's how it comes to them. I think I must have romanticized being. Just like even with you, all this time, I know you say a lot of stuff, but I think it seems that Your being is the words. And so I think I romanticize that the words aren't that important. Not even for those people. That you could be with them. You wouldn't have to speak the teachings. And just by being around them, you get it. Yes. But if I don't talk, they won't realize the being. That's what I'm saying, is that if you just have the Buddha sitting with people, the Buddha doesn't just sit in silence with them. The Buddha does sit in silence with them, yes. Primarily, fundamentally, the Buddha is sitting in silence.

[65:17]

And silence is the mind of no abode. And silence is transcending Buddha. The Buddha has bodily realized silence and stillness. And he would like to say a little bit. So he does. Why does he want to? Because he wants to liberate beings who are sitting with the Buddha, but they're not silent, they're talking. In their head they're going yakety yak yak yak. And they're saying, this is hell. Those people I hate. These people are my friends. These people are not. These people are disrespecting me. Those people are respecting me, etc. They're yakety-yaking and they're suffering because of their speech karma and body karma and mental karma. You have to have mental karma behind speech karma. That's the coup de grace. that finishes off the karmic trap.

[66:25]

And it's the essence of it, because by its nature, it's delusionary. Buddha meets people like that in silence, and Buddha wants to say a little. People who are talking to themselves do not become free of their talk by just being with the silent Buddha. So the Buddha said, Would you please talk? Silent one. And the Buddha says, okay, I'll have a simple conversation. Buddha means to the point of getting people to become free of their verbal karma. Of course, it's the Buddha's being. Yes. And then the Buddha goes, and people make words out of that. The Buddha is not actually, The Buddha's not actually talking. The Buddha's silent and still. The Buddha gives Dharma teachings which are not talking, but people then translate that teaching into word images because that's where they're trapped.

[67:35]

We're trapped in word will. We need, in the Buddha's teaching, that realm of words, and then in that realm, it confronts the verbal constructions and liberates us from it. And being surprised is good. Your question was tremendously helpful. Thank you. Now we can have a little food and maybe we'll be able to do a little land play, temple play. Thank you very much. May our intention be extended to every being and place with eternal love.

[68:27]

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