So Vimalakirti, this is a painting of Vimalakirti. This is a painting of Vimalakirti behind me. He's relaxing on the couch there. And there's a lady behind him who I think is his wife. I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that's his wife. So this Vimalakirti asked the bodhisattva of perfect wisdom, what is a bodhisattva's method of entering into non-duality? And Vimalakirti said, according to my mind, my view, my thinking, in all things, no speech, No explanation, no direction, no representation.

[01:06]

Leaving behind all questions and answers, this is the method of entering nonduality. In Manjushri asked Vimalakirti, we have each spoken. You should say, good person. What is a bodhisattva's method of entry into non-duality? The Amalakirti was silent. Harleen said something at the end of class last time that you said we were going to talk about this time, which I think was very fascinating, about the answer being in the question.

[02:14]

Well, I thought about it all week, hoping nobody would be then. Could you hear what Susan said? The question starts the answer. That's what somebody wrote down. Okay, can you hear that? The question starts the answer. What question did you mean? What is the method? What I meant was, it seems to me that when you ask a question like that, you can't do anything but enter duality. Once you ask what a method is, you're going to have to come up with a method, which is what they all did. And that the only... So I thought, well, yes, the only answer would be silence.

[03:22]

But then I said, well, what would be a question? I was trying to figure out how you could ask a question that wouldn't lead to an answer that would be a kind of like this or that, either or, that would be like silence. Uh-huh. Right. And so I couldn't figure out how to ask a question like that. Okay, so what did she say at the end of class? At the end of class, what did she say? The question starts the answer. Okay, what's the question? What? Okay? The question is what? The what starts the answer. Okay? What is the beginning of the answer? That's a statement. Now did everybody get that?

[04:38]

No? She said, the question starts the answer. This question is the beginning of the answer or starts the answer? Causes. Oh, you say causes. Oh, wait a minute. You were quoted as saying the question starts... You were quoted as saying the question starts the answer. And the question starts the answer. I think the question starts, or the question starts an answer, namely, what? The answer starts the question. What is certainly, what is a good answer to the question? How do you enter into non-duality? Isn't what a pretty good way to enter into nonduality?

[05:40]

Can you sense how useful what is? You said something when we were talking about the cypress tree, about asking a question, saying the question as if it were a statement, and saying a statement as if it were a question, and that somehow I've been... Working with that, there's something very alive in the tension between asking and saying. That place, it's a way to sort of energize that place, it seems to me. What? What? I don't understand how what is a good way, a good method of entering into non-duality. Could you help me understand? Say what? What? What? I don't know what you're asking.

[06:48]

No, no, what? Come on. What? How are you doing? Okay, how about you? How is that what for you? It was just there. It didn't have a function for you when you said, what? It had a function, but I don't know if it... Excuse me for a second. Look at me. Now what do you see? I see that. I said, what do you see? Try what on me? What happens? What happens? Let's try. Yeah. So try what on me. Now what happens for you? Do you see what over here? Can you see what over here? I can't see what. You can't? How come? I don't know. You're just stuck on red? I'm stuck on red. Try what on me? I'll try. Are you trying? I am trying. What happened? I still see red. What's the what doing for you?

[07:50]

Um, confusing. Good. Do you see how it's good if you can start getting confused when you look at me and you see Reb? You're pretty sure. You weren't confused when you saw Reb, right? No, they're... Yeah, but if you start getting more confused, you're getting close to meeting Reb. I guess you're getting closer. Just try a what's more on me. I think you might be able to get even more confused. Want to try some more? I think it's working. Yeah. Now, if I do it with, and if also I now look at, am I really wetting over there towards, I'm wetting back over the back at what? What do you see? I'm getting, I'm getting kind of a little, I'm getting chills in my body. Not chills like cold, but warm goosebumps. That's what I see. Are you falling in love? No. That's what it feels like.

[08:52]

Well, it's almost too, like, what are you experiencing right now? And sometimes you can't even put words to it. Well, again, you said, what are you experiencing right now, okay? Yeah. Now, usually, we might think we know we're experiencing, but when you say, what are you experiencing? I say, yes, that's really right. What are you experiencing? You're experiencing what? Now, we get bored with that, so we want to make it into this, or that, or not this. But... If you can actually meet situations and say, what am I experiencing? I am experiencing what? That opens you up to non-duality of you and what you're meeting. It doesn't open you up to it and then you can grab it. If you grab it, then you've lost the what. Now, this may not be where Arlene wanted to go with this.

[10:17]

It sounds perfect. It does? What's happening, Michelle? Everything. Everything. What's happening? Everything. I looked up what? Maybe it was dharma. She looked up what? Maybe it was dharma. She said that. Excuse me. They're related. They're related? They come from each other? They depend on each other. Bruce? Oh, this whole interchange just reminded me of, there's actually a whole book which I like, which I don't think anybody else would like.

[11:22]

Please don't mention it. It's called What. It's called What. It's actually the name of a man who's the protagonist of this book, and it means what. It's Beckett's What. And he goes to work for Mr. Not. Mr. Knot lives upstairs and he just issues these kind of confusing orders about how to feed the dog and how to fix dinner for Mr. Knot and so on. It's like Mr. Knot is sort of like God and the knot could be not like a knotty problem or it could be not like, you know, nothing or I don't know what else to say about this, except I think it would be good, you know, kind of extra reading, maybe, to this case. It just occurred to me as, you know. Do you have a copy of it?

[12:23]

I have one made. I do have a copy. I don't know. It's very, it's got a lot of repetitive stuff in it. Becca was actually crazy at the time that you were listening to it. It's hilarious. Is how as useful as what? Well, like Beckett says, Mr. What teaches how. What teaches how. And how is the way to what. You see, they're different. Right? But what teaches how, and how will take you to what. Does that make sense? But this kind of procedure must be grounded in your experience in order to do this kind of work in a meaningful way because the movement that's possible when the words turn around like this, especially if we're interrogative, turn you around, the work...

[13:49]

the function of the turning is you can experience when you're already feeling something so if you're in pain and you're settled with your pain and you're patient with your pain then when you let the words turn you like this you can feel something move It might be that you move from pain to release from it, or pleasure and release from it. Maybe even move from pleasure to pain or pain to pleasure, that's also possible, but there's a movement that occurs there, which affects you if you're present with your feeling. Otherwise it's more like just the words are spinning in your head and you'll just start getting dizzy, probably, if you start turning with it.

[14:56]

But if you actually have a clear settling with your feeling... And then you ask, what? is this, but also in the sense that what is this is a statement about what's happening to you. You can start turning. So Manjushri asked Vimalakirti, what is the bodhisattva's way? or Vimalakirti says to Manjushri, what is the way of the bodhisattva? Bodhisattvas want to help people, but what is their way?

[15:58]

They want to help people, but when they meet people, what is the way they help people? They don't go up to people knowing that this is what's helpful to them. They go up and what is helpful. Who are you? What is this? How can we help? If we're willing to be with people, if we're willing to be close to people, are we also willing to be close to people With how? Rather than be close to people and then we're going to do this or that and that's it? Are we willing to be with people and then, well, how is it going to be? What is it here? What is the way to be together?

[16:59]

What is the way to enter into non-duality? and Vimalakirti doesn't say anything in this book. But in the other version of the story, in the other version of the story, Manjushri asked Vimalakirti, is the bodhisattva's entry into the dharma gate of non-duality. And the person who tells the story in this book then says, What did Vimalakirti say?

[18:14]

What is the bodhisattva's entry into the dharma gate of non-duality? And the Zen master says, What did Vimalakirti say? And then he says, Completely seen through. And I looked up the characters for this. It's a four-character Chinese expression. The first character means to investigate. I think the second character means sand or minute. So it means to investigate minutely. But it also, the combination means to elicit. To elicit or to bring to light. And the next character means to settle.

[19:30]

To settle or finish or complete. And it also means to understand. And the last character... is an emphasis character, which in Chinese is pronounced, is spelled, or transliterated, H, I mean, Y-E-H. Y-E-H, yeah, or yay. So, it's to bring to light, or to uncover, or expose, to bring out in the light, and settle that, complete that, with, you know, emphatically complete bringing out into the light. Which character is that?

[20:35]

Which character is that? This is the characters for when he says completely exposed. Completely exposed is four characters. These are the four characters for when he says completely exposed. Are you following this? Manjushri asking Malakirti, what is the Bodhisattva's entry into the Dharma gate of non-duality. And then the person who quotes says, what did Vimalakirti say? And then he said, completely exposed, completely brought to light. And this is quoted in your book, in your case here, where it says on the second page, just before the verse, it says... Not before the verse, sort of in the middle there it says... You know, it says, I say the inept are few...

[21:53]

are not few. The inept are not few. Only Svedu, only Sredo, only Sredo does not say, after Manjushri's question, that Vimalakirti remains silent. He just said, what did Vimalakirti say? He also said, seen through or completely exposed. I say, not knowing how to be a ghost, he shows his body in broad daylight. Bob, I mean Dave.

[22:57]

Can I ask a question? Sure, you just go ahead. I just had the idea that what we're talking about here, like what, and you said the words interrogative words? Interrogative. Interrogative, so it's who, how, what, when, where, and why, right? Is that the group of words? Yeah, there's also who, don't forget who. Yeah, that's what I said, who, how, when, where. No, but you know, there's the things that qualify. And that's like the beginning of bringing things out into the light. And if you want to go beyond bringing things out into the light, which is beyond duality, you have to bring them out into the light first. And that's what you were talking about, that there's certain words that are like catalyst words to get that whole thing rolling, right? Okay, I just want to make sure it's rolling. In order to make any sense of the bodhisattva's entry into non-duality, we have to completely accept responsibility for any duality in the neighborhood.

[24:16]

So that's all of our job, right? Any duality that you experience now, if you can... If you can accept that duality and be completely settled in that duality, that's your job, so to speak. To be honest about that and be responsible for any duality that you're experiencing. Then, if you've done that part, then we can proceed. Is everybody ready now? Is everybody taking responsibility for duality that they experience? Yes. How does it feel to be responsible for the duality that you're experiencing? How does it feel? Any feelings about that? Yes, it's exciting.

[25:21]

What? It's exciting in a way. It makes me curious. It's exciting? You feel curious? Are you about to say something, Melissa? I was going to say it was kind of a relief Kind of a relief? I don't know. Any other expressions of how it is to take responsibility for the sense of duality? It's painful. It's painful. Any particular way you're experiencing the pain? Can you tell us about the pain? Something about it? Where is it? No? It uses up a lot of energy. It uses up a lot of energy? Yeah, trying to discern everything all the time. You feel a split around your heart? You feel a split? Mm-hmm. Is it a sharp pain, a dull pain?

[26:31]

A dull pain. A ache. A ache. A ache. Yes? Can I just distinguish between the experience of duality being painful and the experience of acknowledgement that that's what I experienced is where I met with relief? The acknowledgement made you... You felt relief at the acknowledgement. Yes. And then, does anybody have a sense of how the acknowledgement, how does that affect your sense of pain around the duality? Does it make any difference, the acknowledgement in terms of the pain? It seems good, in a way, for me, because it seems to be accepting that that is the way things are right now. And so there's a little bit of release from... I think the pain comes from really wanting to change that And in the acknowledgement I can at least say to myself, I'm here right now and I'm experiencing duality, but I'm going to accept that before anything else.

[27:40]

So you experience a duality but you feel it's good to accept it. And also you're saying that you feel that wanting to change it causes also pain. Wanting to change it, of course, is the idea that it's this, and it can change to that, and that's different from this, right? So there's duality. First of all, there's some duality, and there's some pain. Then there's wanting to change it, which is another duality on top of the first duality. But accepting the first duality, and maybe even the impulse to change that duality, is accepting both those kinds of pain. Yes. Don't you say it's taking responsibility for it is what makes me curious, awaits a certain interest, and that changes the pain. I mean, it's like I become actually more alive, I find. Yeah. The taking responsibility for the way our mind works to create duality, it gives you a better seat.

[28:46]

It's slightly even... it's not exactly necessarily you would think it's interesting, you might think it's interesting, but you know the word interesting means in between? Like interstices? And, but if you, you might feel interested or curious But I would also say, even if you didn't feel that, you would have a better view. You can see more clearly if you settle here. You can see the duality more clearly if you take responsibility for it. Yes? I have a sense of feeling separate when this occurs, and that triggers me to look at why. When what occurs? This? Duality. There's a feeling of separateness, and that makes me aware of it, and so then I start inquiring of why.

[29:50]

I find it very useful. And at times very painful to feel separate, but there's almost an honoring in that because it's an awareness of The connectedness is the opposite of that. Yes. So it really is both feelings of connectedness and separateness at the same time. Yes. Because it makes me aware of both. Yes. So there's a little bit of, you see, there's a little bit of non-duality, that the separateness depends on the connectedness and the connectedness depends on the separateness. And again, That's language, but if you actually can feel the pain, you can feel the dynamic of how the separateness causes the pain, but also the separateness is the only way to have connection. Connection has no meaning aside from separateness. Kathleen?

[31:07]

I want to understand that Michelle said that the separateness makes you feel the duality. And I'm thinking that that's what the duality is. Yeah. Me and you, the duality, it's also a separateness. And that's somewhat painful. And if I can accept responsibility for thinking that way, and also accept responsibility to feel the pain, then I'm at the site of, I'm at the door. And now, how do you enter this door? I answered the question. You enter the door by how? If you feel the pain of separation and take responsibility for feeling the pain and take responsibility for your contribution to creating the pain by the way you think, which, again, is not like a shameful thing because human beings naturally create this separation.

[32:17]

But still, even though it's not a bad thing, you still need to take responsibility for it. Take responsibility for setting it up and take responsibility to feel the consequences. Now you're at the door. Now how? Now what? But when I say now what, I don't mean that's not the what of and then what. It's not Well, now what? Like, now after this what? It's now what? It's the now what? Okay? The what now? And somehow we use that what now as though it's going to happen later, right? It really is what now. What now with this door that's in your heart? And then what be the future as opposed to the now? So and then what?

[33:20]

You move away from the door. So stay here with this responsibility for your cognitive processes, responsibility to feel your feelings which you're already feeling. So both on the feeling and thinking level, take your seat. Now what? Now how? How now? And the door can now start moving. So it's a process. It's not an answer. It's a stimulus and response. It's a... Well, you say stimulus and response, but stimulus sounds like it's from outside. I think it's more like inquiry and response. It's more like you... You... give yourself to what's happening for you, and there'll be a response to that.

[34:25]

Actually, non-duality and duality is... Fine. Fine. I asked myself how to practice that with other people right now. It's kind of a little overwhelming to be here because, especially the past days, I had very strong desires to ask people what. But I think I'm doing something wrong. Mostly I seem to create very threatening situations. Well, here's a situation where people are your size, so don't worry. You can ask them what, or you can tell them what. Go ahead. Try it. I would suggest you do it with somebody in particular.

[35:34]

Was that a question or a statement? You want to be in between? Okay, move in between. Are you in between now? What is this? Do you believe that? Where do you believe it and where don't you believe it? Very fragile, you know, this English word, like a skin. Fragile skin? Is that where you believe it or where you don't believe it? That's where I believe it. Where don't you believe it? When I try to look into your eyes.

[36:45]

When you try to look into my eyes, you don't believe it? Really? I guess that's my anxiety. Yeah. So, how's the anxiety? That's right. How? Are you really very much how? So, do you trust this? No. Huh? Do you trust this? Stay here. Do you trust this? Yes. I just wanted to touch your heart, like, the whole time that you were just struggling with that.

[38:02]

It created an opening, the question, to see. Okay, so, Manjushri asked me, Malakirti, what is the bodhisattva's entry into the dharma gate, the dharma door of non-duality. Okay? And then the Zen master Shredo says, What did Vimalakirti say? And the commentator says, Svedu gathers ten thousand arrows to his breast and speaks the truth in Vimalakirti's place.

[39:04]

Manjushri asked Vimalakirti, what is the bodhisattva's entry into the dharma door of non-duality. Zen master Shredo says, What did Vimalakirti say? And then they say, He gathered ten thousand arrows to his breast and spoke the truth in Vimalakirti's place. So then the Chinese Zen master comes in and says, What did he say? He says, completely seen through. So, the difficulty now is to carry this forward into another conversation.

[40:31]

So here's another conversation. Here's a verse. Here's a poem, okay? Poem is... There's two poems, but here's number one. Poem number one. Manjushri inquires after the illness of old Vaishali. Vimalakirti lives in a town called Vaishali. It's his hometown. So Manjushri goes to inquire into his health. You see he's in his sickbed here. See him? He's a sick guy. He can barely sit up. Sort of. The gate of non-duality opens. Behold the adept. Behold the adept. Do you see the adept?

[41:38]

Where is the adept? Where is the adept? Where? Where? In the inquiry. Where's Manjushri? In the inquiry. Where's the inquiry? The how. Where is it? Right there. There? Where? Here. Huh? Here. Here? Has anybody else had the adept here? Where else would it be? Don't evade my question, Lee. Right here. How do you feel?

[42:40]

I feel fine. This is the easy part. No. Crude without pure within. Who appreciates it? Crude without, crude outside, pure within. Who appreciates it? Who appreciates it? Okay, tell us about it. Who will tell us about it? Who will tell us about it? I'm sure who will tell us about it. Come on, who? Come on, tell us about it, this crude outside, pure inside. How is it?

[43:42]

Could we hear more, please? You say something. I'm all ears. Yes. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Could that be? Could that be? Crude without? Crude? Can you settle into the crudeness? Can you purely settle into your crudeness? Or into somebody else's crudeness? You can't have pure without crudeness.

[44:48]

This is exactly what we do. What's exactly what we do? We are crudely pure. We are crudely pure? How about being purely crude? Crudely pure, okay? That's too hard. But be purely crude. That's the first step. We already got that. We already got what they call the crudely pure thing done, right? This is duality. Okay? Okay? Crudely pure, that's duality, right? But you can be purely crude. That's the door. Okay? Purely crude is the door. Now, at the door of being purely crude, what? Yes? I feel crude when I feel separate. And when I notice the separateness, I then feel pure in no-see.

[45:51]

So, for me, it's sort of like this swinging door. Yeah. So, a slightly different way to put it, well, a different aspect of it is, be completely pure in your settling with your crudeness. Yeah. And then the door of non-duality. The door of non-duality is not the door of purity. It's the door of non-duality of purity and crudeness. But we can be. The thing we're good at is two things. Being crude. I mean, we are like, as far as we know, we are like the solar system champions at crudeness. As far as any sign goes, we're the best at being separate in the solar system. As far as we know, even beyond that, as far as we know, we're the best at being crude and separate and so on.

[46:59]

And we also are wholehearted creatures, so we can be wholeheartedly crude. And that's our purity. Our purity is that we're really crude in that way. We can be wholehearted about this. We're at the door. Now, the door of non-duality is not the door of purity, it's the door of non-duality. We've already got to the door of non-duality by basically being completely pure about being crude. We've actually just demonstrated and realized non-duality. We are the door. We're not just at the door, we are the door. We are the door of non-duality. Things like us are the door to non-duality. We're also the door to duality. That's the way the door of non-duality would be.

[48:03]

It would also be the door to duality. Now that we're here, who can appreciate it? Who can appreciate it? I can appreciate it. But who can appreciate it? Now, when I look at you, I might say, you can appreciate it. But I just do that to stimulate you. To turn into who. When I say, when I'm really talking to you, when I say you, I really mean who. But if I say who, you might not know I'm talking to you. So I say you. But I mean who. Who. That's the you that can appreciate this. The who you. You can appreciate this, but you have to do your homework first, right?

[49:06]

Now comes the hard part. It gets harder and harder. Forgetting before and losing after don't sigh This is an allusion to a story which you can read, right? As for forgetting before and losing after, Longjia's collection on meditation In Long Jiao's collection on meditation, in the verses on cessation, the fourth one says, now when I speak of knowing, you didn't know knowing. Just know, that's all.

[50:08]

Then before you don't continue extinction and after you don't bring on production. The continuity of before and after broken In between is solitary and alone. The continuity of before and after broken. Forgetting before and after. Okay? Is that now breaks the continuity of before and after? Well, People can be a now and still imagine attachment to the continuity of before and after. How do you... How is the continuity broken? In the present, how...

[51:14]

is the continuity of before and after broken. How do you forget about before and after? And don't sigh. Don't sigh. Isn't that nice? Don't sigh? Yes? Well, if you know knowing, that would be breaking continuity. Uh-huh. If you know knowing, that would be breaking the continuity. Uh-huh. If you just know, then, I don't know, there's something which is knowing the knowing. We should just stay in the now. Stay right here now. Between before and after.

[52:18]

Stay in the present. He said, though, you needn't know knowing. Just know that's all. Is he saying the opposite of you? Sounds like it. The way... So, he might be saying, and I might agree with him, that just know. But people want to know knowing, and wanting to know knowing is like our attachment to before and after.

[53:20]

When you give up knowing and you just know, That means you give up your need to know, knowing that you just know. That's all. That's when you give up and forget about before and after. But even then, there's a little sigh here right around the heart. A little sigh. Do you know what I mean? Just like you'd like to know what's going on in this class. Or you'd like to learn something in this class. Or you'd like to know what you learned in this class. Some people, I'm not saying anybody in particular, but I think there's somebody in this class that sometimes comes and wants to learn something, but keeps coming anyway. But at the moment of giving up, it's not that you don't learn something, but you give up learning something. This class is a spiritual class. This is a transpersonal class. You don't get anything out of it.

[54:24]

This is learning about the bodhisattva's entry into non-duality. All right? So you just know. We can't help it. We can't help knowing. We are, like I say, the planetary representative knowers. We're doing the knowing. But we want more than that. We want to know that we're knowing. To give up knowing you know, give up knowing knowing, is to just know. That's going on all the time, knowing, knowing, knowing. Then, just let it go at that, means to give up before and after. But there's a sigh around that. It's kind of, oh, oh, really, can't I, please? What would happen to me if I don't know that I know? If I'm just sitting here knowing away, will you take care of me if I just know without knowing that I know?

[55:32]

Will you know that I know? What if you forget that I'm knowing? If I forget and you forget, and I forget before and after, what will happen to us? Yes? What is this attachment we have to the sigh? What is the attachment to the sigh? Yeah, what is that that we... I didn't think we were attached to the sigh. I thought the sigh was in response to our attachment. Well, yes. So what is that attachment? What does that stem from? Hobbit, hobbit. It's just the habit of the negative? Not the negative, the response to that? The habit of... It's the habit of conceit, of making too much out of no one. which in conjunction with knowing when the human being comes to know then in conjunction with the knowing arises a sense of for example knowing that you know or somebody's knowing who accomplished this I mean who is responsible who's the one and make the who into something

[56:44]

Make it into something. Make it into something identifiable that knows. The self is born. So the ego is attached to the psi. The ego is attached to the psi, or the ego is born out of the knowing. If you can just know, that's an act of selflessness. But there's a sigh. What happened to me? Where's my job security? Well, it turns out you don't have job security in that regard. You have job compulsion. You can't stop, whether you get paid for it or not. But your job security as bodhisattva is set because you can hold the hands of many people who are having trouble forgetting before and after.

[57:45]

And hold their hands so that they can let go with or without sighing. And if they do sigh, say, I understand. I sympathize with that sigh. And if they don't sigh, you can squeeze their hand and say, good going. It just happened. Let's do it again. One, two, three, forget. But forget isn't like a negative thing. Forget is just straight out, purely no. That's it. Completely. You're doing it right now. Do you notice? You're knowing. You're knowing away. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. You're doing it. Everybody's doing it. Looks like it. Knowing, knowing, knowing. There you are. Now I just let it go at that. Isn't that enough? Yes, but... Are we losing something in the deal here?

[58:54]

Yes. Before and after. We're losing and then what? We're losing and what am I going to get? We're losing that. Not really losing it, just forgetting it. We can always remember it later if we need it. It's a strong habit. to let go of that. Oh, it's sad. So sad. Hmm? Oh, yeah. Thank you. So we hold each other's hands as we go through this process, all right? It'll be all right. We help each other do this. When I forget, you hold my hand. Just remind me. When you forget, I'll hold your hand, okay? It's okay. Let's just forget about it. We're not forgetting about life. We're just forgetting about before and after. We're just forgetting about extra stuff. All the extra stuff we can forget. Now comes the hard part. Struggling to present the gem, the man with his feet cut off in the Garden of Truth.

[60:07]

This is a story, too, that goes with this one. Right? So... Just sign. Quick, hold his hand. Han Jia relates the story that beyond He found a rough jewel in the valley of Mount Jing. in the Kunlun Mountains. They're still there. He presented it to the King Li of Chu. The king said, this is a stone, and dismissed him and had one of his feet cut off. When the king of Wu assumed the throne, Bian again presented the jewel.

[61:11]

But again, one of his feet was cut off. Finally, when King Wen was enthroned, Bian held the jewel up and cried at the foot of Mount Jing. The king summoned him and asked about it. Bian He said, I don't resent the amputation of my feet. but I do resent that a real jewel is taken as an ordinary stone and that an act of loyalty is taken as deception." The king had the stone split and found that it was a real jewel. King One grieved and said, how lamentable that two former sovereigns found it easy to cut off a man's feet, but found it hard to split a stone. Now it actually turns out to be a great gem and a treasure for the nation.

[62:13]

The story is simple. How come it's appearing at this point in history? What's it doing here? Everybody understands the story, right? Well, you understand the spirit of the story? The spirit of the story is, I don't mind the loss of my feet. What bothers me is that when a person of loyalty is not trusted, that's what bothers me. That's what I resent. I know you're okay, but if you say... I was just thinking of what the story was saying, but the different take on it was that, you know, just the compulsion that people have for these, all these habits that we have, that they have to, you know, go with this compulsion based upon this whole values. If this stone's real or if this stone's not real, if it isn't real, we have to cut off his feet and they don't look beyond that.

[63:21]

It's just like a motor reflex, the way people deal with things. You're right. That they find it easy to cut somebody's foot off instead of splitting the stone open. So we all know what the splitting the stone open is and what cutting the feet off is, right? What is cutting the feet off? And what is splitting the stone open? In this story. It's not a wise, it's not skillful. Cutting the feet off? Right. But what is cutting the feet off? Not in this story here about cutting the feet off. In our main story, what is cutting the feet off? How is that relevant to this story? It's being in duality. It's being in duality. Setting something up. Setting something up, yeah. And what is splitting the stone? Well, before entering non-duality... It's looking farther.

[64:24]

Deeper. When the stone is split, we enter non-duality. But what is the splitting of the stone? It's finding out what's what. Huh? What's what. But you see, it's easy to cut the feet off. It's hard to split the stone. It's easy to, you know, live halfway into duality. It's easy to sort of like cut duality off, to get rid of duality, you know, to dualistically reject duality and all its trouble. That's easy. What's difficult is to accept duality. Accepting duality, that means accept the stone. Accept the stone. Work with the stone. Don't cut the feet off. Don't reject the stone. It's easy to reject the stone. It's easy to reject the stone and who brings the stone. Everything about the stone. Get rid of it. But accepting the stone and working with the stone, that's hard for us. I see the stone being symbolic of the heart, and that when it's opened, there's this gem inside, this sense of vulnerability, which perhaps is far more difficult for people to cope with than the ease you just hack at the feet.

[65:39]

Yes, that's right. It's hard for us to accept this rotten heart, this rotten, crusty, old, sick heart. covered with all kinds of dualistic, separatist conceptions laid over our heart. It's hard to accept such a heart. Even if we hear there's something inside of it, that's wonderful. Yes? Yes. [...] It really is so wonderfully non-dual, this heart, that this heart proves its non-duality by plunging itself into a crusty encasement. Our real heart isn't floating around, you know, all, you know, totally available in thin summer skirts.

[66:43]

You know? It's inside heavy... titanium armor. This gentle, loving, responsive thing is inside of steel. Just to show how non-dual it really is. So it's a lot of work to work with this heart because it comes, it's such a non-dual thing. It is hard, isn't it? It's hard. It's hard. This is hard. So hard. Yeah. Bruce. I was just thinking that the story itself is like the... the stone which is crude without, and then also the silence, which is the center of the story, is also like the stone which is crude without, and the silence lacks eloquence, so in that sense it's crude, but it's also pure at the same time.

[67:55]

Actually, last week, somebody sort of brought up the idea, well, what is the big deal of the story? Anyway, it seems so simple. And so, in that sense, it is kind of... Because it was Michelle, wasn't it? You're famous. It is kind of crude without... And the story might have just been cast out. I mean, somebody who ever put this book together might have thought, well... You know, the story is so simple that, you know, why even bother with it? Just, you know, cast it out. It's just a crude stone which contained our people. But somebody saw through it, so I did. Well, there's just two more lines that I think we're going to discuss them now. Is this a really red bird?

[69:09]

Repaying with a jewel, shining bright, the cut snake of Sui. So you know the story? Who knows the story? Tell me the story, Bert. Once there was a snake. There was an injured snake. And I forget who it was, whoever the main person in the story helped the snake. And the snake, the guy went home and he saw a bright light out in the yard. The snake had brought the jewel in his mouth to present to him as he paid it for him. Everybody understand the story? Okay. Injured snake, helper, snake comes back with jewel and mouth. What's that here for? It goes back to the illness.

[70:10]

How so? Because it's an act of kindness and an act of wanting to help someone that Manjushri inquires. That's the same. Is Manjushri, is Vimalakirti the snake? Mm-hmm. Huh? Is Vimalakirti the snake? Is Vimalakirti the snake? No, that would be the illness. The old whatever the name is. What? Vaisalya? That's Vimalakirti. That's Vimalakirti. Yeah. The snake was dying. Vimalakirti live in Vaisalya, so he's called Vaisalya. So the snake is Vimalakirti. Vimalakirti is a sick snake. Manjushri is coming to visit the sick snake. So then, Vimalakirti gives Manjushri a jewel. What's the jewel he gives him? He gives him a question, gives him a question, and then he gives him silence.

[71:17]

Does he give him two jewels or one? Non-duality. Do you see these people giving each other gifts and repaying kindness? Is that what the story is about? Do you see the kindness here? Huh? Anybody not see the kindness? Anybody not see the sickness? Why isn't he sick? Why isn't he sick? I don't answer that question. How about, is Manjushri sick? What does Vimalakirti say? Vimalakirti says, yes, Manjushri is sick. Because Manjushri is sick, I'm sick. All beings are sick, therefore I'm sick.

[72:24]

Yes, Vimalakirti is sick. He's the prince of sick people. Therefore, he dares to go and visit the man who's sick on behalf of all people. Yes, Malachite is sick. And he brings, he comes to help the sick man. And the sick man gives him a jewel. Gives him one or more jewels. We don't know exactly. I had thought that the snake was symbolic of the universe, not the individual. Well, You can make it symbolic of the universe, but the universe is full of individuals, which are, in some sense, not really... You can't really pull these individuals out of the universe. I mean, it's just something we do by our knowing. We have this knowing, and the way we know is we have a word

[73:28]

that we apply to the universe and we pull the things out of the... we pull these individual things out of the universe. Okay? Are we following this at five to nine? There aren't really... the universe isn't... doesn't really have things in it. There's no sign of things prior to us putting words on the universe and then using those words to pull out of the... We pull things out with words. We do that. And we have to do that in order to know. Because we are knowing machines, we take words and we reach up and pull things out of the universe. And when we pull things out of the universe, we make a thing that pulls them. This is the thing. This is where the illness begins. So, the illness... A separation. A separation. Also, a separation of something out of everything.

[74:31]

We do this. This is how we know. We can't know everything. We know by words. We go like that. We turn away from who towards this and that and not this and not that. This is how we do that. This is how we know. If we take responsibility for that, we start to come home to our illness. If we come home to our illness... we take care of the snake. Taking care of the snake, we get a jewel. It's a thing of responsibility, the water cut, but mindfulness is the cut. It's mindfulness, but particularly we're emphasizing mindfulness of disease. mindfulness of the pain of separation, mindfulness of the pain of duality, mindfulness in a sense of being responsible, too.

[75:39]

So mindfulness is to notice, but also notice that we've got something to do with this. It's not just mindfulness at random, it's mindfulness especially mindful of this disease process, of selfishness, of separation. We go and visit the sick person. Now comes the hard part. Stop checking. What's that about? That's about just knowing. That's about just knowing. Okay. Next. There are absolutely no flaws. What's that about? Mundanity, totally gone. That's still but a little. You can just know, but that's not enough.

[76:52]

Because you need to act. I mean, you can see somebody's sick, right? You can have a response in your heart that somebody's sick, but it's not enough just to know. There needs to be a connection. You need to act. You need to go into helping. You need to go into helping? Just do it. If you know that it's gone, it's just a little. If you what? If you know that it's gone, then it's still just a little. If you know that it's gone, that's still just a little. If you know that what's gone, mundanity? That's good, yeah. So, what's not a little?

[78:06]

What's not a little? What's a hundred percent? Who's a hundred percent? But this instruction is for suffering beings, this is for sick people, okay? You've got to be sick to hear this stuff. You've got to be sick to sit through a class where this stuff is discussed. Why did somebody go listen to the class, and they said, because he didn't have to make a contest or something?

[79:19]

They said that about this class? Earlier. Huh? It's... Yeah, it's that female, I fear she's a golden-brained Buddha. Why did he go listen to... I just want to say, even not sick people are welcome. Would you say that more loudly, please? Even not sick people are welcome in this class. They are? They're welcome, but when they come, I can't talk like this anymore. This kind of talk is for people that are sick and know they're sick. If you don't know you're sick and you hear this kind of talk, you'll get spaced out. You get spaced out and you're sick and you just say, hey, I'm not sick and now they're telling me that I don't have to be sick.

[80:24]

You know? This Buddhism's telling us, you know, that we're, you know, no problem, you know, just what and how it up. No, no, you know, no, this sickness and that sickness around here. No problem. You know, I got no problem and now the Buddhists have no problem too, so I must be okay. No. If you're suffering, if you got problems, and also you care about other people's problems, then you can have this teaching of Vimalakirti and Manjushri. That's okay. If you're completely settled and not running away from your pain at all, then this teaching is for you. This teaching, if people who aren't suffering and aren't sick come in this class, we should just not study this case tonight. Is there any sick people in here? We retract everything that's been said, if anybody's not sick and suffering here. Now, I didn't require that everybody prove they're completely settled in their illness.

[81:26]

before we have this discussion. I ask you to do that, and if you didn't do that, then you know that this class is not good for you. But if you're really suffering... What's the matter, Carol? I don't know if I'm suffering or not. You don't? Well, then, just pretend like you didn't come here tonight, okay? And we can... Later, I'll help you suffer. And then you can remember the class. Okay? Do you understand? Is it real clear now? So now, please continue to be responsible. Take your seat, okay? Take your seat at the door of non-duality, which is completely accepting your dualistic thinking and all the pain involved. Take your seat there. Live there. Take care of yourself. Make yourself comfortable, okay? Okay? with the situation, and then proceed with what is the bodhisattva's entry into the dharma gate of non-duality.

[82:47]

So, next week, since we finished this case, we can go to case 49. Case 49 next week, okay? So if you want to, read the case beforehand. Don't read the commentary, though. Just read the case. Live with the case. And do the practice of this case on the next case. Apply this practice to the next case. Thank you.

[83:38]

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