I was talking to the guest students about this case, and one of my favorite poems came to mind, which I think applies to this case pretty well. And that is, The Breeze at Dawn, has secrets to tell you. Don't go back to sleep. You have to say what you really want. Don't go back to sleep. People are walking back and forth at the threshold where the two worlds meet. The door is round and open don't go back to sleep

[01:07]

Does that instruction make sense to you? As similar to watching this true person who's always coming in and out of the portals of your face? The people are walking back and forth at the thresholds of these portals People are walking back and forth at the threshold of your face. Did I say a quote here last week about what the schizophrenic girl said? She said, there's two things in the world, faces and everything else. And this is our physical face, but we also have a mental face. So our face is like the threshold.

[02:47]

And everything's going back and forth on our face, or on our surface. Our surface. So we need to sit at that face. We have to sit at our face and see Buddha's face. I don't know where you people who are walking back and forth across the threshold are in terms of your practice. I don't know what kind of practice you have there at this time.

[03:51]

I don't know if you're ready for what. What are you ready for? Yes. Nicole? Okay. Well, one possibility is... that you could tell us about your homework activity, you could tell us how you're meditating, and that could be done in a big group, or we could break up into small groups again, and you could tell each other in smaller groups if that would be easier for you.

[05:00]

Do people feel ready to sort of talk about how you've been meditating in a big group, or would you rather have small groups? If you do big group, it would take a very long time. If you do a big group and everybody talked, it would take a very long time. It would take a very long time. What? Mm-hmm. What I just said in terms of sitting at the, you know, being awake at the threshold where the two worlds meet, you know, this in and out thing, this true person is going in and out of your face all the time, it's going in, it's going in from one world, it's going from one world into another and then it's going from that world out into the other, okay?

[06:10]

Does this way of talking have some... Do you have some sense of this? Anybody have a question about that? Is in and out these two worlds in a threshold? Any question about that? Do you understand that the organs, the six organs, are the threshold between worlds? They're the threshold between Awareness and its objects between self and other Well, it's hard to I guess to speak such a big group so maybe Maybe breaking up into small groups would be good and then you can you can you can check out each other's practice on this on this instruction see how you're doing and see if you understand what other people are doing, and see if they understand what you're doing.

[07:15]

That's one possibility. The other possibility, which doesn't look like you're ready for, is to demonstrate your witnessing of this true person that's going in and out of your face. I just have the sense you don't feel up for that yet. Am I right? Go ahead. I guess it seems not clear to me about a true person going in and out of the portals in the face in the sense that you usually associate the character the true person, not coming, not going. But it seems that what comes in and out through the portals of my face is the basis for the meeting. Is the basis for the meeting?

[08:17]

The basis for the meeting, the basis for the arrival. The arrival of... How do you... But let me say this, Stuart, this might help you, that it says this true person is always coming in and out of the portals of your face, okay? Whereas light, let's say light, light comes into your face, but it's not always coming into your face, and it's certainly not always going out of your face. So in terms of the sensory experience of the sense consciousness of I or the I consciousness or light consciousness, that this true person is, whenever there is light coming in or concepts of vision going out or whatever is going on, whatever kind of transaction is going on, the true person is always there. So in that sense, you're right, the true person probably doesn't come or go because he's always coming in and out of your face.

[09:21]

But there are things that are coming in and out of your face. Light is impinging on us and we're coming up with concepts of what that's about. We're also cycling inside of our own mental consciousness, producing images and interpreting them in terms of other images. This kind of transaction is happening all the time. But there's something that's going in and out of the face all the time. There's something which is crossing, going back on these thresholds. There's some witnessing. There's some awakeness at these thresholds. That's the true person. Intermittent changing activity, if I understand correctly, you're saying is continuous in all directions. Yes, and also it is continuous with the intermittent experience. So we have the experience of things going in and out.

[10:24]

But there's something that's there with all the, with this process all the time. What is that? Can you witness that? I have more of an experience that everything's on a superspeed, all is spiritual, rather than something, I mean, it's more like a problem. There's a witnessing, but whether it's inside or outside seems to be almost the same. The witnessing is not inside or outside. Yeah, it's not located. But there is inside and outside. That's the part I don't see is, it almost all seems outside. But outside in the sense that what we call inside is also kind of outside. It's more like a sphere. Whether it's my voice or Stuart's voice, you know, I have a similar relationship to hearing my own voice inside my own head, like this voice.

[11:29]

It all seems so different. Yeah. But the hearing is different from the heard. Hearing your voice and hearing his voice make both of those sounds external. The hearing is inside. You can hear your own voice, but there's an interior to your own voice, which is called the hearing. That which can hear is different from that which is heard. They are simultaneous. But we feel that there's some negotiation across some surface, that there's some... For something to be heard, for there to be hearing and heard, there has to be some separation. You cannot experience a separation. You can't see that which separates the two things, because the separation of two things is the seeing.

[12:41]

As soon as you would see that which separates the two things, then what you'd be looking at would be another thing you'd be separated from. So that wouldn't be what separates you, that would be what you're separated from. It would be made into an object again. So it's right that Stuart's voice and your voice are both on the surface of this sphere or this umbrella or whatever. That surface is the other world on the other side of the threshold. And there's a knowing on this side or the awareness on this side and then there's object on that side. The two worlds meet at this threshold. Everything's happening on this threshold. So you can have a door with a threshold or you can have an umbrella over you with the end of the surface of the umbrella and space or whatever. There's various ways to visualize it. Pardon? You can have South Mountain.

[13:45]

I have a feeling that the If you're hung in water in the ocean, a flag of gods. If you're hung in the water, a flag of gods. And then the water is passing through this, and there's interaction. And then you get to decide which is the inside, which is the outside. Yeah. And you could switch if you wanted to. You can change teams. Yes? As I was trying to stay close to this kind of experience this week, for the first time I felt that perhaps what I sort of call intuition was not just located like here, but that there was intuition everywhere. And I don't know how else to say it, this image of the Goans in the ocean sounds pretty good, but I used to have intuition on one side of the Goans.

[14:53]

And now there's this kind of experience that I feel like there's some kind of intuition that's everywhere. I'm not sure what I call intuition, that's what I've been meant by that word now. Something is impressed by both sides of the gauze in the ocean. It's called the ocean. Take the gauze and put it down in the ocean, and now you have a piece of gauze, and you have both sides of the gauze. Something is impressed by all that. It's called the ocean. So our awareness actually embraces both sides of the threshold or both sides of the portals. And not only that, but there can be a witnessing, a penetrating insight or intuition about this process.

[16:05]

And he's suggesting that the pivotal place to set up shop is at these portals. But there's an important point, that some kind of heavy negotiations happen across this doorway, across these sense organs, and there's a mind organ too, and the mind organ is that which splits the mind into two parts, into subject and object. And in conjunction with that mind organ, our identity is born. So self is born at this portal, because this portal creates reflection. this portal makes one part of the ocean a reflection of the other. No matter where you put the gauze into the ocean, what's on one side is then the reflection of the other side. You understand? And the ocean knows both sides, and the ocean knows the gauze, and the ocean knows

[17:14]

the reflective nature of putting a piece of gauze in the ocean. And if you can somehow, there's a possibility to get hung up at the gauze and therefore at that point to be released if you can sit there and watch how this process happens. Matt? Is it Matt? I don't understand to what extent the reflection works. It's ocean on both sides. It's ocean on both sides? Well, how about in a mirror? There's an image on both sides. That's right, but I don't understand how that would apply to an ocean separated by... I don't see how there had a difference between what's on both sides of the gos. In a mirror, it's clear. You don't understand the difference between the east half of the Pacific Ocean and the west half of the Pacific Ocean?

[18:17]

It seems to me that there's not a substantial difference between... There's not a substantial difference between the mirror and the image either. It seems like it to me. It seems like it, but if you think about it, If you want to try to prove the substantial difference between what's on one side of the Hawaiian islands and what's on the other side of the Hawaiian islands, I'm sure somebody would be able to come up with innumerable data about what the difference is. They would say, well, there's these kinds of animals on this side, and there's these kinds of animals on this side. the salt distribution is different over in san francisco than it is from what in shanghai the temperature is different you know the the you know people you come up with lots of stuff but actually you can also see there's not really much of a difference between what's on one side of the gauze and what's on the other side of the gauze you could also have instead of having the gauze being the middle of the ocean you'd have the gauze be on the beach outside san francisco that would also divide the ocean in two parts but it isn't really very substantial the difference you could if you same thing with the mirror and the image if

[19:27]

If they really were that different, if the image in the mirror, the reflection in the mirror and the thing which is being reflected were all that different, we wouldn't be talking about the relationship in the first place. Right? And among all the things that are reflected in that image of the reflection, there's only one thing in the universe that you choose to put on the other side of that reflection. So there's some kind of relationship there. The difference is insubstantial. But insubstantial, I mean, try to find something more substantial than that, you'll have trouble. It is insubstantial, but it's not like there's something more substantial, because you won't be able to find anything else to put there in that place. So you have to choose that thing to get that reflection. So that seems pretty heavy duty. But at the same time, you try to grab what the difference is. Try to establish where there really is a difference between those two. Pretty hard. The reflection and what is reflected are not the same.

[20:30]

But it's pretty hard to establish they're different, too. Because it is a reflection of that thing, even though it's not that thing. It's not the reflection of something else. And the same side, if you put a piece of gauze in the ocean, this side of the ocean is this side of the ocean and it is this side. Why is it this side? Because that's the other side. Before you put the gauze in, it wasn't this side. It was just ocean. And so was that. But when you put the gauze in, suddenly this is the ocean, has the address on this side, and now this has the ocean on that side. Before the gauze is put in the ocean, the ocean has no addresses. The ocean has no locations. By putting the gauze or putting a mirror in, by having reflection in the mind, suddenly things have locations. They're in the mirror or they're not in the mirror. And because of that separation and that difference, identity is born.

[21:33]

So self, where we get hung up, happens right at that gauze or happens at that partition. So being alert at these surfaces, you get to discover the self is there, is born there, and the self is forgotten there. The self forgotten is called the true person. And it's called the true person because it's not like there's no person. Because since there's a portal, there's a person. Do you understand that? As soon as there's a piece of gauze in the ocean, there's a person. And what is the person? When there's a piece of gauze put in the ocean, what is the person? The person is something that sees something different. The person is something that sees something different. The person is... the identity of the two sides.

[22:37]

And they are identified in terms of their separation. Somehow the issue of identity is raised by putting a piece of gauze in the ocean. Somehow identity is raised by having a mirror in the mind. Suddenly birth and death are separated. Suddenly there is a self and an other. Yes. I'm just going to speak, and I missed the end of the last one. You just said before, the surface of the face, you are at the surface of the face. I felt as if I moved to the surface of my face, and I felt as if I left my body behind. I felt as if I left all that thinking behind. I haven't been able to follow anywhere that's been said since. You don't have to follow what's being said.

[23:45]

Are you talking now without following what's being said? Yeah, you can still talk even though you can't follow what's being said. You don't have to follow what's being said. All you got to do is say it and hear it. Taking up this position... is in some sense leaving your mind behind. But that's exactly where it's supposed to be because it's supposed to be back there. So part of this might be is to move away from your mind, right up to the front of your mind, so close to your mind that you're right between your mind and its objects. So you almost take a new position in the drama of self and other. Instead of being over on the self side or over on the other side, you're more at the door where self and other are born. Take your seat at the door. and sit there. Look at this thing that's coming in and out of these portals. Look at it. Don't be concerned with getting back in the driver's seat and taking care of things.

[24:45]

Well, don't worry about it right now. Let somebody else take care of it. Don't worry. Even you can still keep talking while you're sitting there. You can also move back in the driver's seat and talk, too. If you switch over to the other side, you maybe could talk, too. Try it. Yes? So when I was trying this this week, when I put myself at the portal, what I experienced was, as soon as I'd be aware of being at the door, I realized, or it seemed to me, the door was closed. It wasn't open until I got there. When I got there, then I had a sense of the flow back and forth. What was surprising to me was that it seemed to have been closed and that the flow hadn't been going on until I got there.

[25:52]

So it seems like unless there's some question you want to ask in the big group, you can maybe break up into small groups and, I don't know, do something with yourselves on this stuff and see if you can help each other and more people can express themselves in terms of how they're doing this. And again, I would suggest that somehow you try to do it, you practice it right now. It's easier to practice when you're not talking, but not everybody's going to be talking all the time. So while you're listening or watching each other, you can practice it. And somebody maybe will be talking and expressing themselves. And if anybody already has witnessed this person, that can be a special group that you can come and be with me. So all those people who have not witnessed this, count off. One. Right here. One. Up to six. Two.

[27:05]

Three. Four. Five. Six. One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. After you discuss your practice with each other, we can come back and play other games if you want to. Okay, now please form six groups, and I think if you have, I think the groups are going to be too big, but let's see.

[28:23]

And if they are, then one person, I'm going to take one person from each group and make another group. So would you make your group? Some people can go outside if you want to. I don't know if anybody wants to. Lizzie, could you sit up here, please, if you mind? Lorraine, would you mind coming and sitting up closer, please? Would you mind coming closer, Samantha, and filling in one of these seats here? I was happy to see just about everybody talk, to look like. Is that right? No? Is anybody who didn't talk?

[29:27]

That's not true. Was that true, what you just said? Is what you said just true? Was that intelligible? Is what you said intelligible just now? Not very intelligible? Do you agree with her, folks? Show us what you know. Okay, so do you have any questions about this meditation practice? I didn't do it. You don't have any idea? Yes. How do you do the practice of look, look? Express. Bringing oneself forward.

[30:42]

You have to get to that place first. Before you're in that place, you just abstract. I'm willing to talk somewhat abstractly to get you to station yourself into a position of looking in the right place, but you need to practice that, and when you feel that you're sitting in your proper place, that you're sitting in your seat, upright. Uprightness is not leaning forward or backwards. It means that you're not leaning into going out or coming in. These are words which I say to you from my sense of uprightness. These are words which I say to you from being at the threshold of my mind and the threshold of my sense processes.

[32:09]

These are merely indications, nothing, someone was talking A couple of people who aren't here were talking about that my class, this class is like law school. And it is like law school. But it's not law like law is some fixed thing. So being still and upright is something to do with this. But there's no way, there's no way to be still. There's nothing you can do to be still. Does that make sense? Anything you would do to be still would be some kind of contrivance, which would be some kind of motion, which is an illusion. Stillness is not an illusion. And this witnessing is not an illusion.

[33:24]

This witnessing is witnessing illusion. Witnessing illusion is not illusion. When you witness illusion, do you also see it as something besides illusion? Yes, you see it as something besides illusion. You see it as As not illusion. What it really is. What it really is, is it's not illusion. In other words, illusion is that when you see what it is, you realize illusion is liberated from illusion. And this process of perception is liberated from the process of perception. But you have to witness it as it's apparently happening, You have to enter into that process in order to witness how it happens.

[34:25]

When you witness how it happens, you realize that it's not happening. Nothing is happening at that place. That's the place of being a person. A person is the thing that's there at the threshold. A person is born at the threshold. People are born at the place where the two worlds meet. That's where people are born. That's where the sense of person or identity is born. Identity is born from this reflection. Identity is born in the ocean by putting a piece of gauze in the middle of it. Before there's gauze, there's no identity. There's no subject, there's no object, there's no self. As soon as there's separation and reflection, there's a self. When you understand that process, you understand what's called the true self or the true person.

[35:32]

And this true person has no rank because this true person's been forgotten. There's no rank, there's no station for this person. You don't know if it's high or low, right or wrong, male or female. It's all forgotten. Because this person is not this person. Because this person is just an illusion born of the processes of separation. So we need to look at this process station ourselves in the good seat at that place we need to do this um you know all the time until we feel comfortable staying there more and more when you feel settled there then you come forth and you don't and if you haven't again if you have any way of coming forth you're moving The same way you sit still is the way you come forth. This is called spontaneity.

[36:37]

Spontaneity comes from the stillness. Spontaneity does not come from getting ready to do the thing. We're converging on a great moment. by this instruction. We're converging on a moment of stillness in the present here. And from such a place liberation can occur. The way comes forth from such a place. Ben? people in the group that I'm sitting in talked about approaching a moment like that and then suddenly being self-conscious approaching a moment like that and having an emotional reaction like fear or anger and there was a sense in the discussion of grabbing onto that emotional reaction like, oh my god, where did that go?

[37:56]

Where's me? Good. I'm glad that came up. That's a sign that you're doing your homework. Can you speak to having that reaction without suddenly losing the place that you were at? Well, for now I would suggest that when you have that reaction, you're veering off. And I think if you think a little bit of the future, if you do this kind of work and you think a little bit of the future, basically, unless you're very skillful, that kind of thought will veer off in this place. You won't converge on thinking of the future. Maybe somebody can do that, but I would suggest that you notice that most people, if you think of the future, think what will happen to you, what will people think of you, will you be able to talk,

[39:04]

This kind of thoughts do come up as you approach the present. You wonder, will you be allowed to do that? Will you be allowed to live in the present? You don't believe so. The society you've been taught that you're not able to live in the present. What will happen to you if you live in the present? Will you forget your name and address? What the class may go over till 11 o'clock. What will happen to the world if you stop thinking of the future? Well, the first thing that will happen to the world is the world will have no more fear in it. And when that happens, you may think, well, how can I live in a world without fear? And then think of the future and you have your fear back. So you feel comfortable again because you're now not in the present and you're afraid again. So this case, I'm afraid, is saying, go to the present, go to the place where this interchange happens.

[40:10]

When these two worlds meet, and they meet, they don't meet in the past or the future, they meet in the present. And one world is the past and one world is the future. Those are two worlds, too. The past and the future also happen across this surface. But at this surface, at this portal, past and future are just two worlds. And you can witness the place where they meet. And you can't grasp the place they meet, and you can't grasp them. If you veer into one of them or the other, you can grasp them and be comfortable because you're thinking of the past or you're scared. So it requires a steady... stillness to come to this place, not overshoot it, not cringe from it, but just carefully again and again come to that place until you can settle there. And then come there again and again until you're more and more comfortable being at that place.

[41:15]

And when you get there, then sit there. And then something will happen. And that something that's happened will be a spontaneous event And it may be that your body moves, your voice is heard, your eyes blink, a thought arises, and that should be presented. And then, if there's still any uncertainty, it'll come out if you try to interact with somebody on it. So that's the next line, is you come forth and you ask a question like, in your mind you maybe understand that you have met this person, and so you might come forth and ask, who is this person? Or you have met yourself, and you might come forth and say, who am I? Or whatever. I'm not going to think about the moment when you want to do that.

[42:33]

I'm talking about it, but I'm not thinking about it. I'm in no hurry to meet somebody who's coming from the present. If I'm in a hurry I won't be able to meet. If you're in a hurry, you won't be able to meet. You will be excited and you'll fall on your face. And of course if you hesitate, you won't meet either. So throughout the day we have to train, we have to drill at this and it's called trying to give our whole being to being present and still throughout all of our activities.

[43:55]

I've said this quite a few times to myself and I've said it quite a few times to others. I don't know if you people understand that this is for your own good or not. But even if you do, you won't be able to do it unless you talk to yourself this way. If you don't know it, then you definitely won't be able to If you don't understand this, you won't be able to by chance. I don't think. But if you do agree, then still you have to talk yourself into the present. If you try to talk yourself into the present during the week between now and next week, Then when you come to class, you have a little better chance to practice it in the class.

[44:59]

So I just want to tell you that it's almost 9 o'clock. And in one sense, I feel like we should stay in this case until everybody can do better than this monk. And some people do better than Rinzai Linji. That's what I feel. But at the same time, I don't necessarily need to stay in this case because I think what I would, if we go on to case 39, basically what I, what I, what I'm going to try to remember is that we're going to keep doing this case and we're not going to stop doing this case. We're not going to stop watching for this true person of no rank. no matter what case we're studying, we will continue to watch for this person, to look.

[46:12]

So if you come next week, we may study case 39, we may not, but I'm still encouraging you to do your homework and to stay awake And watch the breeze at dawn. The breeze at dawn arises at this threshold. Also arising on the mind organ which separates the mind into two parts. It arises on that piece of gauze in the ocean. The breeze at dawn arises there. Witness that. You are born there. It's your birthplace. Moment by moment. It's not some big fancy thing, it's just your address. It's actually not your address, it's the birth of your address, it's the place your address is born. You're the only one who can witness this for yourself.

[47:24]

Only you can see this. We can hear you tell us that you've seen it, and we can test it. But you're the one who has to witness it. There may be other things to do in this world, but I can't think of them. I mean, there may be other things, wholesome things to do, but I can't think of them. I know there's unwholesome things to do that are other than this, but this seems to me to be essential. Okay? So, let's see. Let's all try to do our homework again one more week. Come back here on the 4th of July and establish our independence.

[48:27]

Or is it our independence from colonial oppression? We have been colonized by the forces of ego. We have been colonized by the doctrine of living in the future as a necessity of life. Okay, should we stop, should we end by everybody saying one word? Yes. I'd like to start over. I couldn't hear you people. Did you hear? The one, two, three worked pretty well, maybe you should do that.

[49:33]

One. Now. And. Dawn. Dawn. Good night. Heart. Tea. Blue. Good night. Please. No. Yes. Roger. Heart. Liberation. One. Joy. Step. Down. Tree. Grape. Over. Review.

[50:36]

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