Today is January 7th, so that's about, this is the third full day of this twenty-one days. The first two days we mostly just sat together, and I spent time meeting with quite a few people individually. And so I thought I'd begin this meeting by saying that we're kind of at the beginning of this retreat, and how is it, or anything you'd like to express about how it is now? At this time? Beginning?

[01:02]

Yes. It certainly feels formative, like it's gathering form. It feels what? Formative, like it's beginning. It's formative? It's wrestling with form. You feel like kind of wrestling with form? Yeah. In yourself, and do you sense others are in that process too? I think so. Life seems dramatically simpler. Life seems simpler to you? Life seems more complicated. And very emotionally intense. Life seems emotionally intense? Curiously, yeah.

[02:13]

Curiously? This morning is already very different from yesterday. By the end of yesterday, I think I was the only one that felt pretty exhausted. I was on day two, but now it's day three, and it feels energetic again. Yesterday evening, you felt exhausted, and today you feel energetic? Many periods of zazen was like, someone said, like climbing a mountain after having been walking on the plains. And I too felt very exhausted and resistant and frightened, and I don't know if you felt frightened, I felt frightened, but today it feels already fruitful. Resistant and frightened and fruitful? Yeah. I'm feeling settling, my mind is settling, not as much activity.

[03:18]

So I'm settling, not quite as much activity now, after a few days? Yeah. I'm still climbing the mountain. By the end of the first day, I didn't feel overwhelmed, I actually got overwhelmed. I just sort of lost my composure. And now I'm gradually setting down today, and I feel enthusiastic. Yes. Softer. Feeling softer? Yes. I find the silence and the silence and all that, I'm grateful for it, and I also find

[04:25]

myself struggling to be every place on time, and I'm not being used to, for a while I haven't been in such a strict schedule, so it's not in my body yet. So it's a challenge every day. Yes. It's encouraging to hear more advanced students having the same problem, so. Yes. I'm still quite tired from coming over from England, but very appreciative that this has given me an opportunity to practice with. Yes. I feel kind of strange because the way I'm trying to reconnect with the outside world,

[05:27]

I feel like I have this pile of paper chores that I'm trying to do from being at Tassajara, and now it's like I'm trying to put dealers out in the world, and it's sort of like everyone else is trying to get into this more, and it's been challenging. You're putting out dealers in the last few days? Yes. I've been trying to get more involved in the world again. In the last few days? Yes, since I left Tassajara. And you feel other people are doing the opposite? Yes. Yes. I'm feeling great appreciation for this precious opportunity, and also tripping over the challenges of the schedule, but it's familiar.

[06:31]

I'm familiar with the schedule, so I feel like I will settle. You feel like you will settle? Yes. It's coming. Yes. I find it extremely challenging to take care of the garden and the way it needs to be taken care of, and to be here and do what everybody else does at the same time. Do you hear her? Mm-hmm. Any other questions on how it is at this point? Yeah, I still feel a little bit of needing to let go, or not clear on how much to let go of my responsibilities outside of here while I'm here. Do you hear her? Yes. I just arrived yesterday evening, so I'm still jet-lagged and tired, but it feels like coming

[07:41]

home. It's wonderful. We have wonderful, bold people. I hope the people who have hair don't laugh out loud. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying it. I'm enjoying myself. Enjoying yourself? And it? It. There is enjoying. There's enjoying happening. I just wanted to express appreciation for the schedule and the extended periods of quiet.

[08:44]

I think it makes it easier for us to feel what we're actually feeling. It's awesome to be first in this room. Could you hear her? Yes. I'm feeling very appreciative of being able to feel my body. I feel it throbbing and doing its thing and being able to really pay attention. Could you hear that? Is there another hand back there? Yes. When I'm witnessing myself and I don't know who is doing it. And I'm looking at other people around me and I see motion and things are happening. It's weird. I cannot say it's a sensation but it's something which is...

[09:51]

It feels different. And I see people reciting sutras and saying things. And it feels to me not meaningless but it's a flag. It's a mind reciting something without something. I don't know how to express it but... And it's wonderful at the same time. But we're reciting the sutras and... I don't feel the heart connected to it. If I'm reading it for myself I need to be quiet. I'm not necessarily verbally expressing it externally so it sinks in.

[10:52]

And when we stand and we read... I feel like it's something artificial trying to train itself to be something else. Yes. It feels like everything has measured just enough of everything. I have a great deal of gratitude for being there. He started with making real efforts in Zazen but then the jet lag destroyed everything. I see my mind already lost and confused.

[12:06]

No. I enjoy it very much here. I find this place wonderful. And I'm currently in a funny mood. And I hope you don't mind if I laugh all the time. Yes. Is Anne sick? No, she's here. Oh, is she? I feel I'm in deep... in sort of warm water but drifting away from shore in ways that confuse me. You feel you're in deep warm water, drifting away?

[13:14]

It feels good but it feels weird and increasingly remote from where I started. So you're kind of confused? Sometimes. For what reason? I don't know. And some of the things that I've sensed or experienced is that quite a few people made an effort to apply for this practice period and were accepted and dropped out.

[14:34]

And a number of these people were from around, you know, far away from like Australia and England and... Any other far away places? Vancouver, yeah. Anyway, quite a few people who were intending to come but didn't come. And one person in particular from Australia I was looking forward to meeting because it basically looked... the person didn't say on the application that her name was Helen Mirren but I think there was Helen Mirren. But there was another person besides Helen Mirren that applied. Meryl Streep. Meryl Streep did come. So you may be able to notice who she is as you look around.

[15:34]

You may see Meryl Streep in the group. And so a lot of people... And two people haven't arrived yet. So that's part of what happens. People are coming from around the world and from other continents and so there's that factor, you know, that we have this thing. And then most of the people who are coming in from far away in some ways have a little bit of an... to some extent an advantage because they're so far away from home that they can't be too involved in it. And some of the people in Green Gulch have told me that they're having a hard time letting go of outside interests, responsibilities, commitments, friends and things like that.

[16:42]

Because the outside is not so far away for them in a way. And so they're having some difficulty letting go of these outside things. And then one person said that actually he's like totally into getting more outside than ever before. So we have... but we're not going to give this heretic any trouble. But then even people who are not so much in the literal sense of being involved with things over the mountains, so to speak, or over the ocean, just in their own mind, in their own body, it's like there's some tendency to go away from here. So there's some resistance to settling into everything where you are.

[17:53]

And partly you want to, but partly you say you want to, and partly you say you're having a hard time settling into this Green Gulch, and partly you say you're afraid of what will happen if you settle here, if you don't go down to the shore. There's things which make you feel like you know where you are, which aren't really necessarily, but it's like your locators and your identities, and settling with your body, settling with the schedule, settling with the situation. It's in one sense very... you know it's a great opportunity, and at the same time you're resisting it. You've come a long ways and made a big effort to do this thing now, but you also have to do it in some other sense.

[18:56]

That's what I hear from people. And I often tell the story of, you know, I made a big effort to come to Zen Center and to study the Suzuki Roshin, and I put myself into Zen Center and I was there all the time, and he noticed that I was there because I was there all the time, and so he gave me a chance to be with him, just like I wanted. And sometimes he would give me a chance to be with him, just him and me, and I would sometimes, when I got just what I wanted, I would often tell him that I appreciate the opportunity, but I didn't want to take any more of his time, so I'll be leaving now. And he would say, no, it's okay, you can stay. And I'd say, oh, okay, well, can I go now? So, when we get to the place we've always wanted to be, we sometimes get scared and resist the place that we most want to be,

[20:00]

so that's part of what we're trying to, like, settle with, kind of a struggle that we're going through. And I'm representing stay, I'm kind of like representing stay here, right? So, people come to me and tell me when they feel like they have to physically leave the valley, and they also come to me and tell me when they feel like they're psychically want to leave the valley, or emotionally not here. So, it's difficult for me, too, to, like, I don't want to, like, you know, be rough with people and say, you can't go. So, I have to work with that. And so, yeah, so that's been a little struggle, particularly for the people who live here and have Zen center responsibilities. So, like, the last few days, the Tantra left Green Gulch to go to meetings.

[21:03]

Actually, she went to a meeting on day before yesterday, but then turns out the meeting that she thought she was going to have to leave for yesterday was here, so she didn't have to leave. And so, the general thing that I say to people who are kind of residents here at Green Gulch is that, here comes the Tantra now. The thing I say to people who live here is, those things which, you know, like, need to be done for, you know, that really need to be done for somebody else's benefit, that will be harmed if you don't do, go ahead and do them. And so, people are taking children to school and things like that. And people are doing, you know, tantrics to get food and so on, or medicine for people here. But mostly, people are not leaving, but it's hard for people who live here not to leave,

[22:10]

which is part of the unusual quality of this retreat, is that usually when we have practice periods at Green Gulch, or even sessions, not everybody in Green Gulch is in the practice period, or in the session. Not everybody. So, particularly during practice periods, there's only like 20 or 30 people out of the 80 that are in the practice period. Other people are going out, doing all these, and, you know, various other outside responsibilities, meetings and so on. But that's a special quality of this. And yet, the responsibilities are still all around. So, this is another struggle, is how to balance that. How to tell whether the going out is a resistance to being here,

[23:13]

or really what's totally appropriate to being here. I thought I might just read this poem, which I've read to you a number of times before. It seems like an appropriate thing at the beginning of entering into this formal container of this intensive... It's an English translation of a poem called How to Paint the Portrait of a Bird. First paint a cage. So, we have a cage here. And I'm the official gatekeeper.

[24:17]

I'm the cager. First paint a cage with the gate open. Then paint something pretty. Something simple. Something complicated. Something beautiful. Something useful. For the bird. Then place the canvas against a tree in a garden, in a wood or in a forest. Hide behind the tree, without speaking, without moving. Sometimes the bird comes quickly. But she can just as well spend long years before deciding to come.

[25:31]

Don't get discouraged. Wait. What years if necessary. The swiftness or slowness of the coming of the bird has no rapport with the success of the painting. For some of you, the bird may not come during these three weeks. But we have a cage, and the door is open if the bird wants to come. And if it doesn't, it's not a total waste of time just to be here, waiting for the bird. The bird's alive somewhere. When the bird comes, if she comes, observe the most profound silence.

[26:33]

Tell the bird enters the cage. And when she enters the cage, gently close the door with a brush. Brush. So that's kind of where we're at now. It's like waiting for the bird, and when the bird comes then just... When the bird comes into the cage, when the bird actually arrives here, then gently close the door. And if that can happen, maybe that might be all that can happen. Just practice birding. Just get the bird into the cage. You see what that's like to have the bird finally in the cage.

[27:36]

If there's any time left over, once you have a caged bird, a bird that's really settled, then there's more opportunities. For example, then paint out the bars of the cage, one by one, taking care not to touch any of the feathers of the bird. Then paint a portrait of a tree, choosing the most beautiful branches for the bird. Paint also the green foliage, and the wind's freshness, and the dust of the sun, and the noises of the insects in the summer heat. And then wait for the bird to decide to sing. If the bird doesn't sing, it's not a good sign. It's a sign it's a bad painting.

[28:39]

But if he sings, it's a good sign. A sign that you can sign. So then, very gently, pull out one of the feathers of the bird, and write your name in the corner of the painting. What's the title of the author of that book? In English, it's called To Paint the Portrait of a Bird, and the author's name is Jacques Brivere, and this is a translation by Laurence Ferlanghetti. And then... So, one of the first ways that I propose to look at this poem is that the first part is like the first part of this time we're in now,

[29:43]

and it seems to be describing tranquility practice. And so yesterday at noon, and this morning at morning service, we chanted the first page of chapter 8 of the scripture, which is the scripture elucidating the intention of the Buddha's teaching, Samyak Nirmachana Sutra. And in that, in which we chanted, there was a question, the first question in this chapter, this is the chapter called The Questions of Maitreya, so this is a chapter where the future Buddha, Maitreya Bodhisattva,

[30:45]

is asking the Buddha, is interviewing the Buddha, the Bodhisattva of loving-kindness. And so he asked the Buddha, you know, relying on what, and abiding in what, does the Bodhisattva practice Samatha and Vipassana? Samatha, tranquility meditation, and Vipassana, insight meditation. So, when a Bodhisattva is practicing these kinds of meditation, what do they rely on, and what do they abide in? And the Buddha says, the Bodhisattvas rely on and abide in an unshakable resolution to attain unsurpassed,

[31:49]

complete, perfect enlightenment, and to expound the teachings. That's the goal of the Buddha, for the welfare of the world. In many of the previous chapters of this scripture, when other Bodhisattvas ask questions, after they ask their question, the Buddha says, oh, that was a very good question, very good question, and you ask this question for the welfare, benefit, and so on, of innumerable beings, so it's very good that you ask this question. But this time he doesn't say this to Maitreya, he doesn't say it very good. In this case, it's not necessary to say it, but this is a very good question to this Bodhisattva. He just says right away what they abide in.

[32:52]

And then Maitreya says that the Buddha, the Bhagavan, has taught that there are four things that are objects of observation for Bodhisattvas who practice Samatha and Vipassana, and the four things are, in this translation we're trying to get, conceptual images, non-conceptual images, the limits of phenomena, and the accomplishment of purpose. Those are the four things which are objects of observation for Bodhisattvas who practice tranquility and insight. And I think then Maitreya asked the Buddha,

[33:53]

how many of the four objects of observation are the objects of Vipassana? And he says one is the object of Vipassana, the conceptual images. And how many are objects of Samatha, or tranquility? And the Buddha says, one, the non-conceptual images. And then he says, how many are objects of both? And he says, two, the limits of phenomena and the accomplishment of purpose. In other words, how many of these four objects are the objects of when you're practicing tranquility and insight together? And he says, two, the limits of phenomena and the accomplishment of purpose.

[35:11]

And then he goes on. I'll stop right there. And just say that it seems like for many of you, that I hear already you telling me how you want to practice, and how you are practicing. It seems like for many of you, at least in the Zen world, what you're practicing actually is you're practicing trying to study non-conceptual images. Which is the kind of images that you look at, that you train your attention towards in the process of developing tranquility. So in fact, I think a lot of you are working on developing tranquility. And some of you have asked me, you know,

[36:46]

for some instruction on how to practice tranquility. So perhaps we can do some of that this morning. But I also want to say that from the sutra says that in that page you chanted, it says that the actual state of tranquility is not the same as observing these non-discursive images, or observing images non-discursively. The state of tranquility is a state of physical and mental pliancy and ease and flexibility and composure.

[37:51]

It's not actually the training in the attention to the non-conceptual image. And so if you're training but haven't yet obtained that state, you actually, it's not really, shamatha is not really the tranquility. However, it is training which is concordant with, it's an intensive effort which is concordant with tranquility because it comes to fruit as tranquility. Once you're in a state of tranquility, you can give up, at least temporarily, that type of training. And then from the position of tranquility, you can turn your attention to the second kind of object, which is the conceptual type of image, which are the images that insight meditation uses. But also on the first page it says that if you haven't attained this state of tranquility,

[38:56]

this state of mental and physical pliancy and ease and so on, if you haven't attained that and you're looking at a discursive image or a conceptual image, is that insight, is that vipassana? And the Buddha says, no it is not. And on the next page, on the other side, it says, it's like vipassana, it's like insight work, because in insight work you are looking at discursive images. But if you're looking at discursive images and you're not in a state of tranquility, it's not the same as if you're looking at discursive images in a state of tranquility, it's not vipassana. Vipassana, according to this text, is looking at conceptual images, meditating on them in a state of tranquility. So there's... I just wanted to make that clear at the beginning, there's more details, but now I want to shift back to the tranquility side, tranquility.

[39:56]

Let's talk about what does it mean to be observing a non-conceptual image. Well, first of all, it's kind of almost an oxymoron, I guess, to say non-conceptual image. It's the same as saying a non-conceptual concept. So you're meditating on a concept of non-conceptuality. In fact, that's another way to put it. But you're meditating on a concept of non-discursive silence. So you have this concept of non-discursive silence. Do you have a concept like that? Of being silent, like when you hear a sound, being silent with that sound, and not being discursive about it. So that sound, for most of us, is primarily a concept, an image.

[40:59]

It's an audio image, or the sight of my hand. Most strongly, for most of us, it is the image of the hand. So you're training your... In tranquility work, you're training the mind to look at the image. Quietly, with no imagination about the image. Give up your images about the images. Give up your discourse about the image. Discursive means going back and forth or wandering around. So it's to train the attention on whatever images are appearing to you, or whatever concepts are arising to you, to your conceptual cognition, actually. You have the conceptual cognitions of things, and this training is primarily in the realm of conceptual cognition. Training in tranquility is

[42:03]

basically in the realm of conceptual cognition, because in the realm of conceptual cognition is where you can hear language and instruction about how to train your mind in tranquility. And so the instruction is... And someone said to me... Someone said to me... I think she first said something like... In her meditation lately, just in the first few days here, and before that, she was noticing that her mind is not so busy. And when her mind is quiet... Actually, first of all, she said, I notice my mind is more quiet than usual. It's getting more quiet. And when my mind is quiet, it's almost like... She didn't say almost like nothing, she said, when my mind is quiet, nothing's happening. And so I asked her,

[43:04]

well, are there still sounds and sights? Do you have still the sensations of your body? And she said, yes. So I rephrased it as, it's almost like nothing's happening when your mind is quiet. And she said, maybe it's better to say my mind's not so busy. So I said, again, is it like when your mind's not so busy, it's like nothing's happening? And she said, yes. So lots of those things happening sometimes seem related to the mind being busy. And then not being busy seems like not so much is happening. And I wouldn't say what really things are happening, I would say more like the appearance of things happening goes on,

[44:05]

but it seems not quite as active. In that quiet, not busy way of mind. And she said, is this a kind of meditation? And I said, yes, it is a kind of, it's like a kind of meditation what you're recording. It's a tranquility. And then she said, but should I be doing something more? Should I be studying something? And I said, well, there is that kind of meditation too but maybe for you now it seems like your destiny is that right now it seems natural for you to quiet down, settle down. And once you're settled then we may turn to actually looking at some things and thinking about them. So another way to say it is

[45:08]

that the training in tranquility is whatever objects you're knowing, train yourself in giving up thinking about them. If you attain a state of tranquility then we can shift to the insight type of work where you look at things and you do think about them. But first of all, it's good for all of us to be able to look at, to listen to, to smell, to touch, to taste, to imagine images. A fall in mid-flight I just happened to have seen. If you don't seem to be able to do that without elaborating then you just sort of

[46:08]

make that whole big complicated wad of the raindrop with lots of thoughts about the raindrop which can happen before it even hits the ground. You make that something which you're not discursive about. At some level you start to get in touch with what it's like not to discourse about something. And if your discursive thought is so vivid and turned up so that it zips in there and gets going on everything before you have a chance even to well, do anything but that then on some level you don't add anything to that. And you feel like, yeah, that was a big kind of complicated response to the glistening of that light. And that's it. That's all I have to say right now. I mean, I have nothing further to say. Guilty.

[47:09]

Okay. Yeah. Fine. I'm guilty. And I have no rebuttal. I'm just walking around guilty Liz all day long guilty. Me. The discourse queen. I have no comment on my nonstop full throttle discourse. I do have a comment. Well, like I said, we're in the process of resistance here. At some level

[48:16]

at some level you find a place where you're not resisting resisting the teaching of giving up the teaching of training the mind in non-discursive silence. So there's like and then there's non-discursive silence with that and no matter what happens no matter how noisy it is there can be a non-discursive silence with the biggest explosion and then there's another one and there can be non-discursive silence with that. So it isn't that you have to turn off the noise although a lot of people find it kind of helps them to get a hang of it by turning off the noise a little bit. So we don't talk in this angle we don't turn over to our neighbor and I'll blow in the ear tickle him and stuff like that. It makes it a little easier. But we want to be able to

[49:20]

find that way that way of being with things training the mind in that way because it is there all the time. One of the translations in another part of the chapter says that you're training your attention to the mind which is always there with whatever's happening because there's basically no matter what's happening no matter whether it's a little beep or a little beep with a big commentary in a moment there's always a mind there which is basically the same just knows it, just knows it, just knows it so you're actually paying attention to this mind which just knows whatever's happening and that's cognition. The sixth consciousness does not comment on things. I have a confession which is, I think it's as deep as my identity and that I love it and so to give up is to give up what I probably

[50:22]

prize most about myself. And then the question is whether you can make a deal which is pretty well established well enough to take a break for like five minutes and you might say well let's try it let's see if I lose my identity and can't find it after five minutes and if you're not sure make it one minute and if you're not sure maybe come and see me and I'll hold your identity for you for one minute and you can write it down and then you can enter into a state of like non-discursive silence and you forget your identity during that time which you might but we can just bring it up and say remember this there is some risk and that's part of what you're afraid of you're afraid that you won't be able to recover what you've been

[51:23]

sort of maintaining all this time if you take a break from the kind of activities where your thought is basically coming from self-maintenance that's its basic motivation but when you're tranquil it's a little bit different because the tranquilities are rising and you're feeling a little bit more at ease with maybe thinking some thoughts which aren't directly verified as self-maintaining because you feel although it's risky to go into tranquility there's a danger to give up your discursive thought once you're tranquil you're still in danger of losing your identity losing track of it which of course ultimately no one has ever found we have a standing reward for anybody who finds an identity I mean there are identities but identities are nothing more than

[52:24]

words, there's no identity in addition to your middle name but anyway identities can never be found actually so there is a danger of losing your identity and that's there all the time but when you're tranquil it's kind of like but you know as you're approaching tranquility that you might lose your identity as you approach tranquility in fact you might lose it however you need insight to be convinced through direct perception that nobody can find it and you'll never find it because although you don't find it right now what do you call it you're in this kind of like fairly healthy form of sedation so since you're so sedated it's kind of like well yeah I can't find my identity

[53:24]

but I feel fine and a lot of people who are afraid of losing their identity do take Valium for that purpose they're terrified because they're aware that they might lose their identity any moment and not find it so they take medication so that they feel more at ease with that possibility any other questions about tranquility? well you were saying that it's helpful if the zendo is very quiet and I was just thinking yesterday it's helpful at the beginning later it'll be helpful to make the zendo noisy well I was going to say that when there was that zendo in Glastonbury with the bombers flying overhead and there were a lot of birds and the Air Force was doing some sort of

[54:26]

practice or something and I had more success with this practice there than anywhere else because I had these images which I then experienced without putting concepts on them and I was just feeling yesterday that the zendo it was way too quiet there was nothing to nothing to to look at sense wise and it's also very dark do I know what you mean? I think so so so this is a more this is a more advanced zendo for you yeah something that I do

[55:37]

when my mind is really confused when I see lots of confusion is I intentionally try to calm it down by doing some kind of loving kindness meditation so my question for you is is this a skillful means a helpful thing or should I just somehow try to sit with the computer loving kindness is it's not limited to being a tranquility gesture but that is one of the uses of loving kindness is to calm down discursive thought so it is it can be used it is used by many people as a way to attenuate to develop non-discursive silence so you're confused or whatever you're confused or you're angry usually they don't recommend loving kindness if you're feeling lustful thoughts

[56:37]

that can intensify them not only do I want to have this kind of relationship with a person but I also just really wish them the best so I think probably we should really get on with this lustful activity as soon as possible then you get more kind of excited less and more discursive like where should we go now and does your husband know about this but loving kindness is particularly good if you're in your particular form of confusion it may be very good for you but for your neighbor it might not be good

[57:40]

so that's part of what and also if you're calm if you're already calm loving kindness also continues to be good but if you're not calm it can be used to help you be to give up discursive thought because it's kind of simple it simplifies your discursive thought so for many people just going into non-discursive silence is too abrupt so they do better if they have a little bit of verbal discourse which is somewhat simplified like for example the heart sutra if you can just like breathe and then give up being discursive about your breath that's simpler than for example chanting the heart sutra but sometimes if your mind is too too gross or too coarse meditating on your breath may be too subtle so walking meditation might be better than sitting and being non-discursive about your body and breath so you can like walk

[58:42]

and be non-discursive about your walking so some people when they're walking they can be non-discursive about the walking but they can't be non-discursive about the sitting does that make sense? and some people can't be non-discursive about walking so that then we have them try to be non-discursive about running and some people can't be non-discursive about running so we have them tightrope walk you know Because then they learn, if I'm at all discursive, I'll fall to my death, or I'll fall to the net anyway. So the coarser the mind is, the more coarse the antidote needs to be, and then when the mind calms down, you get more and more subtle antidotes to more and more subtle discourse. And so loving-kindness meditation is maybe a little bit more coarse at the beginning than... because it's discursive, it's a little bit discursive, may all beings be happy, may all beings be free of anxiety and fear, may all beings be at ease and buoyant in body

[59:46]

and mind. That's discursive, but if you just stop there, and don't say, and especially this person next to me, I'd like... So you pick an object, and then you have a standard discourse for every object you're working with. And there's a discourse about the order of the objects, and you consult with your teacher, and then you go back to your teacher and tell your teacher how you're doing, and your teacher says, you don't do that, don't do that, stump that person, that's extra. So again, many people need to be... but in a sense, this is always discursive at the beginning, because you actually have to choose an object. That's why we're talking now, we're just getting discursive instruction about how to be not discursive. And so your question is, could I be this discursive, and I'm discursively saying, yes, you can be that discursive. And then when you're calm with that, then I might suggest to you, why don't you see it now, if you give up that discourse of loving-kindness, see if you can also continue that same simple

[60:47]

way of being with what's happening. And you might try it and say, no, I can't, continue that longer then, and you say, no, I think, let's try it again, and you try it again, and you say, yeah, I don't need it anymore. But you still can go back and do it, even though you don't need it. I mean, you can go back and do the loving-kindness, even though you're already calm. So at first, but you don't have to. So once again, as you'll see in the text, if you look at it, it says, that once you attain tranquility, you give up that type of attention, and switch over to the other kind of attention, the insight intention. So once you're tranquil, you don't have to continue giving up discursive thought. You can pick it up again, because you've realized the fruit of settling. So once you've settled, you can give up settling meditation, and start thinking again. Yes? If you are in a state where you are getting mostly just first impressions of phenomena

[61:52]

with a discursive thought, yet all of these impressions are a reflection of thinking, because it's a phenomena. I would say, maybe better to say, more certain to say, all of these are reflections of thought. Of thought. Of mind, rather than a reflection of thinking. Sometimes thinking is really attenuated. No, I meant thought. And it's so simply because our mind is alive, and... Well, I'm going to give a discourse on that. Do you have anything more to say about this point? Pardon? Hm? Pardon? You were about to give a little discourse about the nature of mind. No. About being alive, and so on. So, is there anything else you want to say on this point? No, I was wondering, what is thought? You're wondering, what is thought? Yeah. The phenomena... Wondering what is thought is some... ...is a reflection of thought. Yeah, so that's a different topic.

[62:53]

Tranquility is not wondering what is thought. Give up wondering what is thought in tranquility. Yes? Not that I know anything about it. In tranquility training. Yes? There is a teaching out there about tranquility, about the absorption of tranquility, and I never hear anything about it. So I was wondering, is it just because one is not flexible enough, and one goes into those absorptions, and they don't fit into 40-minute periods, and so on? Are you referring to, like, these four different types of transits and the four formless absorptions? Yeah. And you're wondering why we don't talk about them? I think because very few people at Zen Center are actually practicing those. And at the first level,

[63:54]

coming to the place of tranquility where you could enter into the first trance is sufficient for most of the type of meditations which we're all working on here. But in the full range of your development over innumerable lifetimes, you probably would study those things. And those, in some sense, more advanced states of concentration than just attaining a, what do you call it, a legitimate state of tranquility wherein you could develop authentic insight. Authentic, I mean like true understanding can be attained from a state of tranquility which is not even yet the full state of the first jhana. Because in the first jhana, when you're in that state, you cannot actually... discursive thought is attenuated. So in the higher states of jhana

[64:58]

you cannot actually be meditating on the teachings. However, once you're in a state of tranquility, in a state of tranquility, you can meditate on these teachings and attain authentic understanding. You don't have to enter into those higher trances in order to attain it. Once you have authentic understanding, then you can go back and deepen your insight and then deepen your tranquility through these trances and then your insight will also develop without any further study. But the authentic vipassana can occur in a state of shamatha which is not even yet the first level of trance. But it's a state of shamatha where you could easily enter into the first level of trance if you wanted to. I don't know if people could follow that. How do you enter the first level? How do you enter? Well, basically, once you're tranquil you basically give up

[66:01]

these two mental factors which you use to enter into tranquility called vipassana excuse me, called vichara and vittarka. Vittarka is the way you apply yourself to the image clearly and sharply and then the vichara is actually a little bit of discursiveness around it. By which you comprehend the object more clearly and then you peel away those you kind of like take those two mental factors to their limit and then you drop away and then you enter the trance. However, once they drop away you can no longer speak or understand verbal instruction. And in that case you wouldn't be able to meditate on the teachings at that time. You have to back up from that trance again and re-enter a place where those two mental factors are operating again in order to study. Yes?

[67:04]

As far as what you were saying about tranquility and thoughts I'm just thinking about I feel like when I'm in an interaction and there's background images going on background objects moving, people interacting somehow I'm not consciously thinking about what's going on in the background but there's an energy that I feel affected by and so I'm just wondering I guess I'm just wondering is that possible or is it just that I'm not so conscious about my thoughts about the background stuff or does that even make any sense? One of the things you said was is that possible and what is it that you're referring to

[68:08]

by is that possible? Just that there's well I think it is possible that there's this background background images that are going on and I feel like I'm affected by that even though there's no actual thinking about what's going on Yes Is it possible for such a situation to be occurring? Is that your question? I think so So as far as tranquility goes so I'm not having any conscious thoughts about all this stuff In a sense you're having conscious thoughts but you're not it doesn't sound like in what you're describing it doesn't sound like you're being particularly discursive with this material so that way of being with this material where you're not being particularly discursive is a type of mental attention

[69:10]

which is conducive to tranquility And so I guess my question is can can it be that it's because I'm not having well I think I'm not having discursive thoughts about it but if it's kind of like If you think you're not having discursive thoughts about it that's a discursive thought At the time though I don't think I am But now looking back you think you are Right, maybe You think maybe you were kind of giving up discursive thoughts as you imagine that I'm just wondering if the images somehow can come in and cause non-tranquil states because they're bizarre and sometimes disturbing You're wondering if images can come in

[70:11]

and cause non-tranquil states It's like saying you're in a war Well we're in a war every day in a way so we're interacting and there's battles going on in the peripheral So you feel in the periphery in your periphery of your awareness you feel images and you're asking if those images arise or come in through your awareness can they cause a non-tranquil state? Right The answer is yes and that's basically what non-tranquil states are is when images come in and they are conditions for non-tranquility because we get involved with them and we start tying them together and seeing relationships between them and being involved in those relationships and running back and forth among all that and to do that and be caught up in that

[71:13]

is a state of agitation But what if we're not even getting caught up in it? If you're not caught up in it then you're tranquil That's what tranquility is when you're not caught up in it There's no other way for them to enter except to actually be fully conscious I guess there's times when the mind is a tricky thing and it can seem like I'm not caught up in it but sort of the battles out there It might seem like you're not caught up in it and then it might be possible to test you and find out you are caught up in it So that would be part of the practice too would be change the context a little bit to see if you're caught up in whatever context you're in I guess if you actually there's something going on

[72:15]

if I actually went over and did some investigating and saw what arose it could be that I could get very much caught up in it when I'm actually engaged Yes, that's possible but you might find out that you were already caught up and you thought you weren't that you thought you were calm but you really weren't So if you think you're calm maybe you are even if there's lots of stuff going on and you could also be quite discursive about what's going on but be calm and if you're calm and you're involved in certain kinds of discursive thought you can continue to be calm as a matter of fact when you're calm and you start entering into discursive thought again you notice there's a certain way of being discursive which doesn't disturb the calm and that type of discursive is the type of discursive which promotes insight

[73:17]

There's another kind of resumption of discursive thought which disturbs the calm fairly quickly that's probably not skillful discursive thought that's probably not insightful discursive thought So if you are calm and then you pick up some teachings about the nature of mind and the nature of phenomena it's possible that you can become more calm as you become discursive about certain teachings but you're already calm you know what it feels like and then you start being discursive about certain teachings and you also notice that you're getting calmer and then you can continue to be discursive and get calmer and more insightful but if you're calm and you enter into discursive thought about, for example, how bad everybody else is how stupid they are how you're much smarter than them and if you enter into that kind of discursive thought

[74:18]

even a fairly calm person will start to become somewhat agitated probably now if you're super calm you may have to think some really bad thoughts to disturb your calm so some people are so calm they can think the most horrendous thing and continue to be calm for quite a while but in some ways the best kind of discursive thought is the kind which actually deepens your calm but if you're not already calm it's hard to tell that the discursive thought is calming you sometimes but some people, as I mentioned they notice that certain kinds of discursive thought they feel calmer at least temporarily like loving-kindness or like sewing is a little bit discursive simple kinds of sewing but because you're going back and forth in and out it's a little bit discursive but relative to the extreme discursiveness

[75:20]

that a lot of people are involved in it's a step way down in discursiveness it's much more quiet than usual to just be saying I take refuge in Buddha I take refuge in Dharma this kind of discursive thought is a vast reduction in discursive thought so they already start feeling a little bit calmer fairly quickly from reducing it so it's attenuating it down to almost zero so at first you may have to say to yourself instructions you have to have discursive instructions about how to be not discursive and as you become more calm in some sense the discursiveness that you're using to reduce your discursiveness you're trading in extreme discursiveness for attenuated discursiveness for attenuated, attenuated discursiveness you trade it in trade it down, down, down until you have almost no discursive thought and then that's the place where people say there's no thinking going on but there still may be

[76:21]

still a sense that something's happening so we don't have full insight because we still think that there's birth and death and so on but we're down to very, very attenuated discursive thought and when we stay there for a while we sometimes come to the experience of feeling very calm and relaxed and really having lots of enthusiasm for all kinds of wholesome activities that might be offered we might have an opportunity to do so we feel now we can turn the discursive thought up a little bit and see what kind of discursive thought goes with this feeling of composure and ease and even deepens it, but at least doesn't disturb it too much even disturbing a little bit might be okay because sometimes the trade-off is like we're very calm here and we do certain kinds of study and slightly agitating but it's so helpful to do this study that I'm willing to do it it doesn't completely erode the tranquility

[77:22]

but, you know, like listening to somebody suffering or something a little bit disturbing but I also feel like I think it's really helpful by listening to this person's story of their misery, it seems to be helpful to them and willing to do it but sometimes you might even feel calm when somebody comes to you to tell you and share their suffering with you and you listen to it and you might even get calmer because you're being a little discursive because you can understand what they're saying this happened and that happened and they felt like that, there's some discursive activity going on there, otherwise you wouldn't be able to understand what they're saying but you're calm with it and you get calmer maybe and that can happen but you can also get a little bit more agitated and feel like, it's okay to listen to this I still think this is really good to do I'm happy to do this does that make sense? does kitchen work fit into that process? what? does kitchen work fit into that process? no, that's an exception

[78:24]

and so there's one big topic which I think I can say quickly and that is please look at this very deep question of what is your commitment for this now it's not even three weeks anymore what is your commitment for the next 19 days or 18 days what's your intention maybe I shouldn't even say for the next 18 days, I'd just say what's your intention for today and then if you can answer that what's your intention for the rest of the practice period what's your vow, what's your commitment what's your responsibility here in this situation here I'd just ask you to look at that question if you have a moment and if you can answer it I'd be happy to hear what you find if you don't I kind of suggest you might look again

[79:32]

now and then what is your intention here during this period of practice together what is your intention and what is your vow and then if you find your intention do you wish to commit to some make some commitment to it yes could you clarify for me the difference between having an intention and having a gaming idea having an intention and having a gaming idea well I might have the intention to be kind to respond kindly to everyone but I might not see that as a game matter of fact right now I kind of don't see it as a game to be kind to people just something I kind of would like to be kind now I could get into how it could be a game if I'm kind to people then I might become famous I might become rich I might become popular

[80:33]

people might be nicer to me might be good for my health might reduce stress I could get into that but when I just first think if I'd like to be kind I could stop there and not think of it as a game possible but if I did see it as a game I'd say well okay I still have that intention and I wish to commit to that I still have it even though I notice that I see this that this looking at it in terms of game is there a lot but I just see that well that's part of what I have to be kind about is that I'm a human being and I often interpret what's going on in terms of what I want to get out of it but maybe I could at least maybe before I get too deep I just superficially would like to be kind to someone maybe that and I have to commit to that before I get into like is there any kind of

[81:33]

like getting something from me out of the deal here on the neighborhood so maybe I might commit to that before I find out how kind of like devious and tricky and sneaky I am about that and then after I commit to it I find out oh geez I was trying to get something out of that but I already put myself in the cage of being kind and now I have to deal with any kind of impure attitude I have towards that okay yes you were talking about the bird at the beginning, is the bird tranquility, is the bird inside the bird's bird I don't know I hesitate to say what the bird is but in some sense I would say it's your mind it's your heart and if you can put your mind into the cage you can close the door you know you know you don't

[82:34]

we don't want to push your mind, we don't want to push the bird in there roughly, we want to let the bird come in voluntarily we don't want to force people into this training but we want to open the door and put something pretty inside you know like nice green gulch with the ocean nearby you know get vegetarian food nice people California so we want to encourage people into the cage and then we want to have the person close the door once they enter then once they're in they start how did I get in here but little by little they settle down so the first part is get the mind into some container where it can feel like it's running around and then it settles so I think you could say the bird is the mind which is all over the place but we want to train the mind

[83:37]

to enter into the cage voluntarily so that when after it voluntarily you know voluntarily enters the cage then it says nobody forced me in here and yet I came in here because I wanted to but now I'm trying to get out I came to the place I really wanted to be for one hour or three weeks I really wanted to be here now I really want to go away hmm so you struggle with that as you said struggle and then maybe you settle down and when you settle down then you can paint the cage away and you realize there really is no container here there is no actual forms but first of all we have to put ourselves inside before we can paint them away so the mind has to sort of like settle before it can realize that the place it's settling can never be found or the heart has to settle before the heart can realize that there can be life without

[84:37]

actually being able to get a hold of anything we can live with that but we have to sort of like volunteer for this course now you have volunteered and now you're trying to get out but you might not be able to for 19 more days you might not be able to get out but then after that you'll be able to get out and maybe before you get out the whole thing will disappear and you won't be tricked anymore by any limitation and then you can sign oh doesn't the top of that character have no oh thank you I wrote the character wrong just like that that's the way thank you if you do this like this

[85:39]

you put a hat on it it means true thank you may our intention equally extend to every being and place with the true merit of love's way beings are harmless I vow to save them delusions are inexhaustible I vow to end them darkness are boundless I vow to enter them love's way is unsurpassable I vow to count

[86:37]

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