This story is one that I think you might enjoy having some background on. Would that be okay? Because some of you don't know Wong Bo so well, right? Not a familiar character to some of you? Correct. We don't know his birth date. or when he died actually, seems to have died around 850 A.D. in China. He was seven feet tall. Chinese feet are not exactly the same as English feet, as you know, but they were somewhere in the same neighborhood, the regular men's feet, men's size. Are you okay?

[01:04]

Well, I must confess that I was going to buy some white socks last Friday. And so I was going to go to a store to buy some socks. And the store that I picked was a store which is like just a few feet from my daughter's new apartment. My daughter lives on 8th Street. Anyway, I was going to go to the store, but I had a lot of trouble finding parking, so I was going to give up. And my wife made some comment about, you know, what an urban wimp I am. I give up so easily, you know, with a little parking difficulty.

[02:14]

And I said, well, it's not so much that I'm an urban wimp, but I'm just not that enthusiastic a shopper. He'd probably call you a wimpy shopper, too. He'd probably call you a wimpy shopper, too. That I will admit to. That I will admit to. One of the wimpiest. How about you? Pretty decent, actually. Ladies have been surprised how good of a shopper I am. They'd like to take me with them to give them a prize. I can imagine that. I'm the type of guy that they have those chairs for in the stuff. So anyway, my wife says, okay, double park, and I'll sit in the car, and you can go in and get the socks. So double park in front of the store where they have the socks. I go in, and she finds a parking space pretty fast and comes in. So I'm trying to get these socks, and I'm trying to buy white socks. I've already decided what color and everything.

[03:16]

But I can't figure out what size to get, you know? They all seem too big. So I find out that sock sizes are not the same as shoe sizes. Huh? We have a thing in Germany. You remember that, Anna? Take the sock. You make a fist and you put your thumb inside your palm. Then you take the sock. and wrap it over your fist, and the tip and the heel have to meet in the middle. If that is so, then it fits. You are a good shopper. That's very simple. Anyway, just in the future. Thank you. Now, I can't remember when I was a kid how I picked my sock sizes, but I think maybe I never did buy any socks. I don't know, maybe I did, but it seems like they used to have sock sizes that were the same as shoe sizes. I don't know. Back in the Middle Ages, were they always different? Really? I never, this is new. I didn't know that. You didn't know what? They were different. Yeah, they're different. Just, she came to green cup.

[04:20]

So all the socks, I saw the socks I wanted to get. They were good price. They look nice and a nice feel to them, but they're all too big. So then I found out that actually sock sizes are a little bit bigger than shoe sizes. And then I was even shown, I was even, uh, I was even shown a little chart in the back for people to convert shoe sizes into sock sizes. But even then I had problems because sometimes I couldn't find the size of the sock size on the socks either. Even so, sometimes they were, you know, they were featured so prominently I couldn't even see them. I'd be blaring, you know, size on things. I'm looking all over the place for the socks. Anyway, I must admit, and my wife pointed out too, that I really, you know, in a certain way, I'm kind of out of it. In terms of, you know, I can't even find myself a pair of socks. So, if any of you need anybody to take care of, you're in.

[05:22]

What's your sock size? 12. Yeah, I think, no. About 12, yeah. But that's not my shoe size. No. I agree with that. So anyway, exactly how big a Chinese foot was in the Tang Dynasty, I'm not sure. He was seven of them tall. So he was a big guy. Whether it's sock size or whatever, he was big. And he also had a bump on his forehead. Bump. on his forehead. There was a round pearl there on his forehead, which is one of the marks of a Buddha. He understood Chan by nature.

[06:25]

Huang Bo did. He's also said that he once traveled in the company of a saint, another monk. And they got to a river and the river was kind of swollen, you know. And the saint said, come on, let's go. And he said, you go first. And the saint, one story is the saint walked on top of the water across the other side. And Wang Bo said, if I had known you were a guy like that, I would have broken your legs. What? Sorry. You got the part about the walking across the water? Yeah. And then he said, if I'd known that you were like that, that you'd be like that, I would have broken your legs. You didn't understand that? Well, in Zen, you're not supposed to do that.

[07:26]

You're not supposed to walk on water if you can't. Except under special circumstances that it might help people. Which is, you know, there are cases... You're not supposed to show off, but you can do things like that. And Wang Bo would have, would have, you know, broken the guy's legs so he wouldn't be able to do that. But he didn't have no idea that the guy would pull that one. He thought he was, when he saw him go in the water, he thought he would like get wet, you know, like a normal person. Do you not do that if no one's looking? All the more not when no one's looking. You mean just to keep in shape? Just to see if you could do it. Maybe it's fun. Huh? Maybe it's fun. Yeah, maybe it's fun, right. But there's some kinds of fun which might be harmful, and that's one of the kinds that's harmful.

[08:28]

This exercise, if you have some special power, exercise for fun is one of the kinds of things that actually is usually Lots of fun and quite harmful. Can you imagine why it might be? You can imagine why it's fun, right? Wouldn't it be fun to walk in the water? You asked me about dreaming, about flying, right? Isn't it fun? Wouldn't it be fun to fly? That's another power, flying. Wouldn't it be fun? Even in your dreams? So we know that some of this stuff would be fun. Reading people's minds could be fun. Don't listen to this next one, okay? Revealing your past lives could be fun. I didn't say that. So what's the problem of having fun like that? Thinking, I did that.

[09:31]

Yes, you might think I did that. That might be part of the fun of it. That's one, that's a big problem. Now, do you... You might get discontented with regular life. Yeah? You might get discontented with regular life. Yeah, those are two good reasons. Now does it seem like such a bad thing to think, oh, I did that, when you do something fancy like that? Or even perhaps you would think it would be bad to think, oh, I did that when you do a kind of ordinary thing. Do you think that would be such a big problem? Huh? For a person of spiritual attainment to spend her time going around thinking that she's doing stuff, is kind of a big waste of time. Why not apply your spiritual powers to going around not thinking that you're doing things? Giving up that. If you've got spiritual powers, why use them to walk across water? Why don't you use them to abandon, to build up enough steam to abandon the idea that you're doing things by your own power?

[10:33]

That would be a much better use of your concentration. It takes concentration to walk across on top of the water. concentration practice, basically. So it is a major distraction to someone who would spend enough time to develop that ability to be spending it doing that kind of stuff, either for his own personal entertainment or to impress his friends. What was the other problem? Oh yeah, and then you would have trouble living a life without exercising those powers. You know, that is a problem of having power, is that it's hard not to exercise it. Do you know what I mean? If you don't have any power, there's not much problem not exercising. But as soon as you have some, there's kind of a twitch, like I was riding a horse today, and the horse, the beginning of the of the, you know, exercise, the horse was really kind of nervous because the horse wanted to do his horse thing and he hadn't been doing it, so it was kind of like, let's do it.

[11:45]

It was hard for the horse to stand calmly and not do his horse, because he's got all these big muscles, you know, and he wants to work them, especially once he starts getting warmed up, you know. So it's not so much that you shouldn't have any power, it's just that once you do, you have to be careful not to be exercising it, except for... The benefit of all beings. The benefit of all beings. So that's one reason why in Buddhist practice, developing powers is not necessarily encouraged, because then what are you going to do with them? And some people run into them anyway... So then they've got to figure out what to do with it. Like, what is it in the Loving Kindness Sutra, it says, not burdening oneself with riches, for the burden of riches. Riches are a burden. Once you've got riches, you have to take care of them.

[12:48]

You can't just throw them out the window necessarily. Somebody else might find them and... It's a responsibility, maybe, if you accumulate them. Okay, was it enough on that one, Liz? That's why he said, if I had known this, if I had known you were going to use your powers that way, you'd have broken your legs. Wang Po had some powers too, but see, he would be using them, his leg-breaking powers, his saint-crippling powers, he would be using them to help the saint come down and stop fooling around. This thing was also a Buddhist monk. Does that make sense? This is a story about Wang Bo. Give you a feeling for him. What's the difference between a Zen pastor and a saint? What's the difference? Yeah. Well...

[13:53]

Saints can't teach, then masters can. So in our lineage, one of the most important stories in our lineage is about Dungsan who was really interested in this story about that non-living things can teach dharma. You know that story? And in that story, this is a little bit off the track. Can you handle this diversion in the story of Wang Bo? No, you can't handle it? I'm sorry, maybe later. Okay, that's quite a laugh. Okay, back to Wang Bo Land. Wong Bo. Concentrate on Wong Bo.

[15:00]

So he says to the saint monk, if I had known that you were going to concoct these wonders, I would have broken your legs. The other monk sighed in admiration. What's your problem? What would you do, oh saintly one? You wouldn't? You'd be happy, wouldn't you, if somebody saved you from using your supernatural power. Now, Lee, imagine you had, you know, imagine your powers, okay? Imagine. Imagine now that, you know, they were really like, you know, they were like their full fullness, okay?

[16:09]

And then you had used them. And some brother monk pointed out to you that you're not, you know, that you've sort of fallen off the path of the Buddha, which you really care about, and got a little infatuated with your power, and said that, you know, in order to prevent you from wasting your time, he would have gone so far as to break your legs. Do you see the possibility of some admiration for this guy? Personally, I could see it intellectually, but personally I can't. Anyway, this guy was actually, this guy had a lot of admiration for Wang Bo for criticizing him for using his powers. And he said to Wang Bo, you are a true vessel of the teachings of the Mahayana, of the great vehicle of bodhisattvas. At these words, when these words ended, he disappeared.

[17:10]

Yeah, he used another power. He said, I'm not even going to try to practice Buddhism anymore. I'm just going to be a powerhouse. See you later. Oh, that guy disappeared. Wang Bo didn't disappear. Wang Bo, we have more stories about Wang Bo. This isn't the end. This is before Wang Bo was a teacher. When Wang Bo first met Baizhang, Baizhang Waihai, Baizhang Waihai is one of the main, not one of the main actually, disciples of Matsu, Master Ma. How many people are not familiar with Master Ma? Okay, so Master Ma is one of the big teachers in the history of Zen.

[18:18]

He had many, many enlightened disciples. In the city center we have this class now on depth koans and the second koan we studied, which I told you about at Green Gorge last week, didn't I? About Master Ma. When he was dying, the monk came to the superintendent of the monastery, came and said, excuse me, the coordinator of the monastery came and said, how's your health these days? And he said, sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. That's case number 36 of the Book of Serenity, case three of the Book of Blue Cliffs. Master Ma was a very important Zen teacher. and during his lifetime, one of his disciples was Bai Zhang Wai Hai. At that time, if you had been around at that time and saw Master Ma and saw his disciples, and people had seen Bai Zhang, you wouldn't have thought that Bai Zhang would become, later in history, such an important teacher.

[19:28]

He was not like, in the ocean of Master Ma's students, Bai Zhang was not the star at all. But he became, in the history of Zen, very important, partly because he's the teacher of Luang Bo. Sometimes, kind of like you have a big teacher, and then you have a bunch of students, and one of the students doesn't seem kind of quiet, but has a whole bunch of important disciples. But he himself doesn't seem that noticeable. So Bai Zhang was kind of quiet, kind of skinny little guy. barely there physically. And then his disciples, this really big, physically big, tall, big fleshy guy, Wang Bo. But Bai Zhang also set up the Zen monastic system. Yeah. He's credited for setting up a special set of rules for the Zen monastery. And he's the one who said, he had this thing of a day of no work,

[20:31]

is a day of no food. So that's the teacher that Wang Bo is going to go see now, the guy who said that. That's taken famous. And when he was an old monk, his students hid his gardening tools. Because he lived to be 94. And he kept trying to keep working. He applied that rule into his advanced age. He kept working and wouldn't eat if he didn't work. Anyway, the monks hid the tools. And then didn't eat. So I gave him his tools back. Nobody stole my gardening tools intentionally yet. Although I did take them down to the shop to, you know, kind of like buff off some of the rust and somebody did take them. Did you eat? Did I eat? Yeah, because I did the work of going down to the shop. And then I went back to my garden and dug the garden with my bare hands.

[21:37]

And got, what do you call it, nettle stings all over my hands. My hands swelled up. I could hardly move them. One thing I'll say for me, I'm a hard worker. You're silly. So anyway, come to see Baijiong Weihai. Skinny little Baijiong. in big, big, huge huangbo, the pearl in his forehead, having just not broken a saint's legs. And as soon as Baijian sees huangbo, he says, magnificent, imposing.

[22:43]

Wow. Where have you come from? Wang Bo said, Magnificent, imposing. I've come from the mountains. Bai Zhang said, What have you come for? Wang Bo said, not for anything else. Bai Zhan esteemed him and considered him a vessel of Dharma. I guess maybe this is the first meeting.

[23:58]

Then the next day, Wang Bo was going to take leave, was going to leave, he just came, but he was going to leave and go to Jiangshi and pay, oh, he said he was going to leave and Wang Bo said, where are you going to go? He said, I'm going to go to Jiangshi and pay my respects to your teacher, Master Ma. And Bai Zhang said, oh, my teacher's already dead. And Wang Bo said, well, when he was alive, what did he teach? What did he have to say when he was alive? And then Bai Zhang told the story of his second meeting with Master Mao. Are you following this? Is this helpful? Are you following this? You want to hear more about this?

[25:01]

You look forward. You're not? You're sleepy? Not because of baijang or bongbo or anything. Just sleepy. Can you go back and... Would somebody kick her if she dozed off? Lee, would you kick her, break her legs? Yes. Excuse me, teacher. I'd love to display supernatural powers. Oh, he wants to know, is dozing displaying supernatural powers? In the front row, yes. Okay, so he, so Baijian is going to see Master Ma. Master Ma was the horse master. His power was, he could lick his nose with his tongue. So can Omar. So, Bhaijaan said, when Master Ma saw me approaching, when Master Ma saw me approaching, he held up his whisk.

[26:11]

Some teachers had fly whisks, like the Pharaohs, to keep the flies away. And when he raised his whisk, I asked, Teacher, do you identify with this action or detach from it? And Master Mao hung the whisk on his chair. And then, after a long silence... Master Ma asked Baijian, later on, when you're flapping your lips, how will you help people? Flapping the lips is the activity of Zen teachers. They flap their lips in that house that helps people. They raise their eyebrows, too. Huh? There's another one. I got the wall, flapping lips.

[27:18]

Flapping lips against the wall? Or something against the wall. Yeah, up against the wall, flapping your lips. Hugging on the wall. So, okay, so when you're flapping your lips later on, you know, when you're a teacher, how will you help people? So then Wang Bo took the whisk and held it up. Bye, Jung. Oh, that's right. Bye, Jung. Took the whisk and held it up. And then Master Ma said, do you identify with this action or do you detach from this action? And then Baijang took the whisk and hung it back on the chair. Cool, huh? This is not supernatural powers, right? This is just, you know, copying, they're copying each other. And then, And then, after he put, after Bai Zhang hung the back up in the chair, then Master Ma went, and yelled.

[28:27]

And Bai Zhang was deaf for three days. Almost supernatural powers, but not really. Just a really loud yell, couldn't hear for three days. And then when Wang Bo heard this song, heard this story, he went, he was surprised. He was impressed. And then Bai Zhang said, after this, won't you succeed to master Ma, a faunist? I just told you a story about how Master Ma thought. You want to know? And now will you succeed to this lineage of Master Ma? And Mawango said, No. Today, because of Master Ma,

[29:32]

because of the recital of Master Ma's teaching, I've got to see Master Ma, his great capacity and his great function. But, if I were to succeed to Master Ma in the future, I would be bereft of descendants. Do you follow that? No? So, Wang Bo is hearing from Bai Zhang about... Wang Bo wants to know about Master Ma's teaching. Bai Zhang tells him about this teaching. Wang Bo is really impressed by this little interaction. Okay? Following that part? So then, Bai Zhang says, Okay, now that you've heard this, will you succeed to the teaching? the Dharma teaching, the Dharma lineage of Master Ma?

[30:36]

Now that I told you this story? And he said, no. Through hearing this story, I've been able to see the great capacity and great function of Master Ma. Okay? But if I succeed to him, I succeed to this thing that you just taught me, I will be bereft later on of descendants. Yes. Okay? Got the story? That's what Case 53 is about. This is what Case 53 is about. Okay? So you see this, the background of this story is that this is going on before the story in his relationship with his grandfather and his spiritual grandfather and his spiritual father. In that lineage, the same thing is going on as in this story. Namely, if you see a wonderful teaching, and then you succeed to that teaching, of course, that's nice, right?

[31:41]

But then you will be bereft of the sentence. This is very tough stuff. You say, well, help. What do you do when you see some great teaching? I'm just supposed to be in awe and think it's neat and want to be like that? Sure. Sure. But if you actually get into that, that would be nice for you, but you won't be able to reproduce. Because it wasn't his? This is about, if you take that, that's what you take, and that's what you inherit, and that's your inheritance, then it's dead. It's good for you, and it's good that you appreciate it, but if you receive it, and that becomes a teaching which you are taught by, then the end of the lineage affects you, inspires you, in some way transforms you, but it's similar to... The saint.

[33:00]

Huh? The saint. Yeah. You might become quite powerful with it, actually. But that's not the way the Dharma works. So this is tricky because, well, don't you go study with somebody because you appreciate their teaching? Well, yes. Are you supposed to go study with somebody whose teaching you think is totally weird and stupid and a waste of time? No. But what do you do with somebody who has a great teaching? Do you inherit it? And is that the way Dharma happens? Well, if it does, then you won't have disciples. Or not too many. Maybe just six. What about if you didn't? Let me finish the story. It goes on a little bit here. So he says, then in the future I would be bereft of descendants if I would become a successive. And then Bai Zhang says, it is so. It is so. If your view equals your teacher, you have less than half your teacher's virtue.

[34:05]

Only when your wisdom goes beyond your teacher are you worthy to pass on the transmission. As your view is right now, it means that you have the ability to transcend any teacher, or you have the ability which transcends any teacher. Okay, that's the story. So someone may ask somebody, well, have you transcended your teacher? And someone might say, well, first of all, I'd like to get up to my teacher's level before I transcend. You can't just skip over your teacher. First of all, you have to get up to your teacher's level. But then don't inherit your teacher's level. Say, thanks, it's been great, but we don't need you anymore here. Go relax over there, you know, sit in the snack area or something. I've got other things to do. What is there to inherit?

[35:08]

Hmm? What is there to inherit? Well, before I answer that question, I would say that he said, I'm not going to. Okay? Because if I do inherit the teaching from my teacher, then... I won't be able to reproduce. So, in one sense, you could say the transmission of the teaching is that you don't get your teacher's teaching. You understand it, and your teacher says, yes, you understand it. That's what happened here, really. He understood that story. He understood his teacher and his teacher's teacher. He understood it. But then when you understand that, you don't like them to say, okay, now this is what I get. In some one sense, what is really happening in transmission? What is really happening? What is transmitted? In some sense, what's transmitted is the independence of your teacher. But it's not just independence of any old person.

[36:13]

It's not the independence you have of other people. It's independence of your teacher. Somebody you learn from. That's the key thing to be independent of. It's not too difficult to be independent of people you don't agree with and people you don't respect. A lot of people don't have much trouble with that. And independence in that way is no good. You should not be independent of people you don't respect. You should be totally interdependent with them. Right? Right? All the people you hate, you should be interdependent with and not transcend them at all. Anybody you disagree with, you should be totally connected with. But your teacher, got to separate in a way. But not separate like separate, but become closer than close by transcending. Using your teacher to go beyond your teacher. So in Zen, you not only have to learn from your teacher, but you have to go beyond your teacher. You can't get the teaching from your teacher. So in Zen, there are no teachers.

[37:15]

That's what teaching is about in Zen, is there aren't any teachers. So who wants that? Well, almost nobody, right? People want to have just regular teachers where a teacher gives you something and you got it, and then fine, see you later, thanks. Or hang around and get more later. But this climbing on the teacher's shoulders business, if first of all you have to equal, you have to get up to the teacher's level, you know, then climb on top. It isn't that you go from below and jump up on top. You come up equal to and then go beyond. Like you have to agree, [...] and then not agree. So, so far in the story, Wang Bo agrees, but then he disagreed. He said, no, I won't, I won't inherit this. And Baijian agrees. So first of all, Baijian says, this is a suitable person. And then he sees, and then he says, again, yes, this is a suitable person. And now the person says, yes, I'm a suitable person.

[38:20]

Namely, I won't become a suitable person. I mean, I won't receive this lineage. And he says, now you really are. You're right. And then the master Yuran Wu says, you must see for yourself how this father and son act in that house before you begin to understand. And to begin to understand maybe means to begin to understand this story or just Zen in general. Isn't this kind of difficult? Or easy? Or something? I mean, it's hard enough to learn something from somebody really well, right? And understand somebody's teaching. And get close to somebody.

[39:22]

Then to go beyond them. That's even harder, isn't it? But the going beyond is, in Zen anyway, is the living quality of the carrying on. And at the base of that, of course, is just our normal idea of being close and studying and understanding and clarifying things together. And then another really neat story comes up, but I don't know if you want to go on yet. Maybe you want to grouse about this or something. Is everybody okay with this? Nancy? When you say go beyond, what I hear is, like, surpass. And I don't think that it's so much surpassing your teacher as it is...

[40:28]

Digesting the teaching that you've gotten from your teacher and then what is ever wise or true in you meeting that teaching and that's what brings you beyond? Yeah, I think it's right. It's not like... What did you say? It's not like better than your teacher. No, not better. It's just the life of your teacher. So you said digest. You know the Chinese word for digest is to transform. It's a compound. The Chinese character for digest is transform and destroy. That's what you do to food, right? You transform and destroy. You turn it from hamburgers or hard-boiled eggs or turkey or rice or lentils. You turn it into glucose. Glucose. Right? And protein. And water.

[41:31]

You transform and you destroy the food and make it into something else. So yeah, that way you just digest the teacher's teaching. And transcend also means you become free of it. It doesn't really get better. Hopefully it's alive at the time that you meet, but then you have to become free of it. You have to get really intimate and then become free. That becoming free after the intimacy, and also the becoming free after the intimacy is, it depends on a greater intimacy than just to become intimate and keep it. It sounds like that's what all learning is. It seems to me that when you learn anything, as long as you're just learning what somebody else knows, it's just that.

[42:34]

And then there comes a point at which it becomes yours. And then you can do something else with it, or something that's particularly yours. Yeah, yeah, right. And that's what this sounds like. Yeah. So I was talking to the practice period here about two kinds of initiation. One is a fiery initiation and one is a watery initiation. In the fiery initiation, you subject yourself to the standards of some other person or some tradition. And in that process, the fiery part is your personal position gets burned away. And you just learn, you just inherit this tradition. And then once that's complete, then you enter into the watery phase where you're very creative. And it's your own thing. At college professors, They go through a training, they become a professor in psychology or something, but after they become a professor, they can have courses on the feminine archetype in shamanistic aspects of Zen or meal training.

[43:57]

Or they can just give classes on roller skating or whatever. Because they've gone through that fiery initiation where they gave up all their interests and just learned what their advisor wanted them to work on. They became a slave of the tradition and gave themselves completely to it. then their personal contribution comes back. And if I could even add in that the fiery initiation is called sometimes the static masculine phase initiation, and the watery is the dynamic feminine. So this phase of transcending your teacher or going beyond your teacher is the dynamic feminine phase of your practice, which is preceded by a very strict, you know, rigid, masculine kind of standard confronting phase. Which Wang Bo did right here.

[45:05]

And which Bai Jiang did with the with mods to ask him off. This thing with the whisk and all that stuff. It's identification or detachment and the shouting. This is all fiery initiation stuff. I saw visiting my grandparents and we had a lot of fun. And when you were telling this story, it was reminding me of this sort of interaction that I had with my grandmother. She had a Her toe was hurting her the whole time she was there and we were sitting. Actually, I was sitting on the floor and she was sitting on the chair and I said, Grandma, I think what happened is something got stuck there and what you need to do is you have to really get all your energy and think about that stuck place in your toe and go, like that. And she said, hmm, okay. I said, no, Bram, you got to really, you got to, have you done this before?

[46:09]

And she said, no, I don't think I have. I said, okay, come on, we'll do it together. And so she was doing it, we were doing it, we were having fun, all the energy, and I was going, is it moving? She's 81 years old or two or something. And then my grandfather came in from the workshop. What's all that hollering about? I can hear it cleared. We put an end to it. And when you were telling this story, I was thinking that, well, you know, I was giving the teaching to my grandmother, which isn't going to get passed on, probably. But she actually gave the teaching to me because... You know, I appreciated how fresh she was to just do that thing, you know, just to do something so silly and how fun that was and how I just made it up. And she was actually teaching me, so it was just true teaching in a way. I liked it. Yeah, part of the intimacy is the teacher has to finally let the student teach her.

[47:16]

or has to finally reveal her stupidity to the student. It seems like if you're a good student that phase will happen naturally, is that right? Like you'll go from the more fiery to the more watery just kind of spontaneously. Yes. Okay. Spontaneously. You shouldn't do this intentionally. Right. And you do it prematurely. Yeah, in those cases of that, there's quite a few stories like that in here, too, of people do it prematurely. Those people have no names. Yeah, no name usually. Yes, Stuart. It reminds me of a story that I think I read of a student questioning Susan P. Roche saying, well, you know, it's wonderful to have your example here when we're all together, but sometimes when I'm out downtown or something like that, something comes up and

[48:41]

and I don't know how to continue my practice, so when I'm in a tight spot, should I just think, what would Suzuki Roshi do now? And he said, if I'm out downtown in a tight spot, should I think, what would Suzuki Roshi do? There you go. Wang Bo, as I may point out later to you, Wang Bo, when he was... head monk in a Zen monastery.

[49:44]

A young man came to be a monk there. A novice monk came to that monastery. And this young monk was a person who later became one of the emperors of the Tang Dynasty. I'm going to tell you the rest of that story later. But anyway... And when that person became emperor of China, one of his prime ministers also became a friend of Wang Bo. And when Wang Bo was teaching, the prime minister of the country came to Wang Bo. The prime minister's name was Pei Xu. And so he came to Wang Bo and he explained the essence of the mind to him. Oh no. Excuse me.

[50:47]

Wang Bo explained to the Prime Minister the essence of mind. And later the Prime Minister came to Wang Bo or actually he invited Wang Bo to the capital of the province he was in charge of, and when Wang Bo came, the Prime Minister gave Wang Bo a book expressing his understanding of Wang Bo's teaching of the essence of mind to him. Okay, is that clear? Wang Bo taught the Prime Minister the essence of mind, and the Prime Minister wrote his understanding of Wang Bo's teaching. And then he presented to Wang Bo this book, which was his understanding of Wang Bo's teaching. Wang Bo took the book and set it on his seat without looking at it. Now, I just want to tell you that this book that the prime minister wrote was one of the greatest Zen books of all time.

[51:59]

just a wonderful book. He very well expressed Wang Bo's teaching. And I hope to teach and discuss with you this text in the next few weeks. So this is really an important Zen text that the Prime Minister wrote, which quite well contained Wang Bo's teaching. Wang Bo didn't write anything, but the Prime Minister did. So when the Prime Minister gave him, he just set it down. didn't even look at it. After a long silence, the master asked, do you understand? In other words, do you understand that I received this book and didn't look at it? And the prime minister Pei said, I don't understand. And Wang Bo said, if you had understood this, If you had understood by me taking the book and setting it down, like that, you still would have gotten somewhere.

[53:11]

If you still are trying to describe it in paper and ink, where would there be room for my school? So, do you see? Just think about that. Wang Bo is teaching you, giving you this instruction about the essence of mind. You study with him and you go off and you write your own essay about what you thought you understood. You bring it to him. Now is the time to see if you understood. You bring your understanding, he takes your understanding and sets it aside without looking at it and asks you, do you understand? He's teaching you not to depend on his teaching, which you have just understood quite well, probably.

[54:23]

And if you did understand it well, then you'd understand by him not been looking at what you presented as your understanding of his teaching. So you study with the teacher and in this case understand beautifully. You bring your understanding and the teacher doesn't even look at it and asks you, do you understand? The fact that I'm not your teacher is my teaching. He didn't understand. If you had understood just by that gesture, then you would have gotten somewhere. You think, well, didn't he get somewhere by writing this fantastically wonderful book? N-O. I mean, we have this book now, thanks to him. Great. Great. Swell. But writing that book is understanding nothing about Zen. Unless you can put it aside and understand that putting it aside, you'd have something.

[55:26]

Not that much, but something. If you don't understand that, then if you think it's in this paper and ink, then where's the room for my school? So if a teacher is teaching you something about Zen and you understand it really well and put it down on paper, how can the teacher get in there? Well, the teacher can get in there by taking what you wrote and putting it away and then saying, well, do you understand? Then there's room for the teacher. Otherwise, the teacher is trying to teach you right now and you can't use it. You can't use it because you wrote this truly beautiful book. which will be transmitted for more than a thousand years so far. Eleven hundred years later, I'm still calling the translator of this book to ask him to send me a copy, which he didn't send me. And he told me to call him back if he forgot, so I call him back.

[56:27]

I said, well, he said, you're hassling me because I told you to call me back if I didn't send it, right? He said, mm-hmm. But the reason why he didn't send it is because he wanted me to call him again, because he's lonely up in his office at the University of Princeton. He wants to talk to some Zen people instead of, you know, all those other professors who are forcing him to do these translations. Invite him over. What? Invite him over. Okay. And you can teach him to... It didn't help. But it was fun. Stupid and fun. Stupid, that's good. Stupid and fun. Stupid and good. Oh, good and stupid. Isn't that a wonderful story?

[57:30]

Because we actually have the text that he wrote, that Wang Bo set aside. He didn't destroy the text. He just put it down. However, then the prime minister understood. And then he let the teacher in. And he supposedly said something like this. He was one of the few Chinese who could speak English at the time. So he said, with the Minnesota accent, he said, From the great man, he has inherited the mind seal. There's a round jewel in his forehead. His body is seven feet tall. He hung up his staff and swayed and stayed for ten years by the river Shu with Bai Zheng.

[58:35]

Today, his floating coracle? What's coracle? It's a boat. It's a round boat. A round what? A round boat. A boat. His floating round boat... has crossed to the banks of the Jiang. 8,000 dragons and elephants follow his great strides. Over 10,000 miles, fragrant flowers join his excellent cause. I hope to serve the master as his disciple. I do not know to whom I will entrust his teaching. These Chinese prime ministers could pop these verses out very easily because that was their job. Every morning they had to go and, you know, every morning they showed up in the dark to present these poetic instructions and suggestions to the emperor.

[59:46]

And there's a nice verse here that Wang Bo gives in response. which one of our ancestors thinks probably isn't true. But anyway, here's what some people say he said. Also, he could speak English. My mind is like the boundlessness of the great ocean. My mouth spews red lotuses to nurse a sick body. I myself have a pair of hands with nothing to do. I have never received an idle man. What does that book help a lot of people? Pardon? What does that book help a lot of people over the years? Did the book help a lot of people? Yeah. You know, I don't know.

[60:50]

On one level, it helps people kind of like warm up to... It gives you kind of like a dualistic feeling for the teaching of Wang Bo. Dualistic in the sense of like, you know, if you read it, I say, it gives you a dualistic sense, okay? It gives you a dualistic sense. It over there gives you a dualistic sense of him over there. When you're really thirsty, maybe even a cup of dregs might be nice. Yeah, right. Now, is it the nature of this book that this book would, in the process of giving you a feeling for him over there and you over here, that the book would gradually tell you that this way of understanding the book and relating to the book is going to be antithetical to what the book's talking about?

[61:59]

Well, yes, it does. So anyway, books are, you know, problematical. But anyway, people have taken care of it because they've really appreciated it. And it was translated into English by John Blofeld several decades ago. And now it's been translated again. How about Suzuki's book? It brought so many people into the teaching. It was an introductory book. So isn't there a place for that kind of work? Is there a place for that kind of work? Yes. The Prime Minister did. Yeah, there is a place for that kind of work, and that kind of work does attract people to the temple or to the monastery, they read the book and they feel inspired and they come.

[63:02]

Or they feel inspired to practice by reading the book. Okay? So that seems at least somewhat beneficial, right? Wouldn't one have understood something like that? Would he have understood something like that? Yes. Yes, I think he would have. But now that the person's in the door... Now something else starts to happen. So these stories are not about how to attract people to the monasteries. These are what you do with them when they get there. So you people are inside now, so now you're being exposed to the family secrets. Namely, that now that you're here, perhaps you can stand to hear that you made a mistake to come. LAUGHTER that by the very act of thinking of coming to Zen Center, many of you move farther away from what you came for. Because what you came for was not to become dependent on Zen Center, and dependent on the teaching, and depending on the teacher.

[64:14]

You didn't come to be dependent. You came to become interdependent. That's what attracted you, was interdependence. But you didn't stay in your house waiting for the Zen teachers to come to you. Couldn't stand it, so you said, OK, OK, I'm going to go there. Even though they didn't say, please come. Really, they were saying, don't move. Stay in your house. Don't even go to the toilet. Now, how you handle that instruction is up to you. But they don't mean that you'd wet your pants. I mean, don't move. But actually, that kind of teaching isn't very popular, doesn't spread very much, so they wait until you get in the temple to tell you that. Sometimes they take your stick and drive you away. Yeah. That's an art of Zen teaching, is to take a stick and try to drive you away. And in this story, the monks didn't even move.

[65:14]

So in one sense, he's driving the monk away, saying, get out of here. I'm not your teacher. Get out of here. What are you doing here? You shouldn't be here, all clustering around the great teacher. But actually, I'm a lousy teacher because I can't even get rid of you. I'm a total flop. You won't leave. A good teacher is trying to drive you away so you can take care of yourself. Isn't that something? Dave! What's the name of that book, by the way? The book you wrote. Did I say the name of the book already? What's the name of that famous book? It's Chan Chan You know Chan?

[66:29]

Remember Chan? Chan Shin Fa Yao Chan Shin Fa Yao Zen Heart Essential Dharma The essential Dharma, or the essential truth of the Zen heart. Or the essence... The word heart is also translated as mind. Yeah. The essential teaching of the heart of Zen, of the Zen mind. Zen mind essential teaching. Chan, Xin, Fa, Yao. compiled by Prime Minister Pei, student of Wang Bo. No famous disciples.

[67:33]

Did he have any disciples? I don't know of him having any disciples. Maybe he did. I mean, the emperor was kind of his disciple in a way. So was Wang Bo. Yeah. Yes. It seems to me what you're talking about, or maybe what this case is about, is the most difficult thing that any religion can do. It's that the teaching could keep growing, or that people could take it, make it their own, and go beyond their teachers, and yet that something remains the same. Almost impossible. Yeah, it's really fantastic. Fantastically difficult and wonderful. So, want to hear Nara's story? Or do you want to... Maybe before Nara's story, I should call on Daniel.

[68:37]

Daniel? He asked my question, but can the same Prime Minister also compile a book? Is that a teaching of... Same book. Same book. That's just a rendering of the title. The title doesn't have Wang Bo's name in it, but it is his teachings as compiled by Prime Minister Pei. Yes? The story of Wang Bo and his mother, I've always felt, was one of the most heart-rendering stories of Zen. Rendering? Yes. Very heart-part. Render. Render. Rending. Rends. Heart rendering. Heart rendering. Could be heart rendering, too. That would be kind of an interesting little nuance there. Do you know that story? I could do it later. Well, this is an opportunity for you to share your story.

[69:42]

So, please tell us the story. I'll make it as brief as possible. Okay. Longbo's mother had but one son. She was a widow, and... He decided to become a monk, and it broke her heart. And he went off, and she was quite upset about it. And thereafter, she made her living by taking care of monks that would come by. What she'd do is she'd wash their feet, and they'd get them food or something, get a little station. Well, Hongbo went off, and he was kind of curious. He left his home. He was curious about his mother. Finally, after many years, he came back, but he didn't want his mother to see him, so he put on a cloak so that she wouldn't recognize him. And he came in. He went into the hut, sat down, and she washed his feet. And she noticed something on his foot. I forget what it is now, but there was something about his foot that tipped her off.

[70:47]

Her mother remembers her baby's skin. Something like that. She's sort of tall, so... There's something about this quote up there. it reminds me of something laughter [...] it went to the river actually and she realized then where it was and she tore up after him he got on a ferry and started crossing the river so she walked on the water and she was quite anguished and came to the side of the river and threw herself into the river and drowned And Huang Bo watched his mother chasing him and fall into the river and drown. And he cried out that leaving home and becoming a patron monk is the greatest of all undertakings. It's inconceivable in its greatness. And if it isn't, then I've been deceived by all the Buddhas.

[71:52]

She beat him to it. What? What did you say? She beat him to it. That's the spirit. He didn't get it. Or she was trying to tell him. Isn't this the school of dredgeslurpers? I mean, aren't we encouraged to slurp the dredges here?

[73:11]

Quietly, of course. Dredge slurping is really nice, but the problem with dredge slurping is that it won't last. It does not have the vitality of non-dredge slurping. No, I mean that when we do our ceremony, drinking the water, it's actually meritorious that we give the water to the spirits, the good water and to So, when I read dread slurper, to me it sounds like, because of my conditioning, past conditioning, hair, it sounds like a compliment. Oh, yeah.

[74:14]

That understanding, I think, is fine. That you would drink the dregs so that other people would not have the dregs. Right. Okay. So the teacher drinks the dregs. so that the student doesn't have to. But then the student doesn't get any dregs, and the student wants the dregs. The teacher takes the dregs, because the dregs is the teacher. So as the teacher of all beings, you drink the dregs and give them the pure water, which has nothing of you in it, and then they have to just take care of themselves. That's a very good analogy, is that the teacher keeps the dregs and gives the student nothing. Protects the student from the dregs. So, one final story, and one final, not one final, another background story is that when this young, when the future emperor...

[75:18]

who was actually... This story is too long to tell at 9 o'clock. I'll tell it next week. I was going to tell a story about when the future emperor came to the monastery and practiced with one bow. What happened? I'll just tell the essence of the story, and then I'll tell you the background later. The essence of the story is one book, Wang Bo, right? Here's Wang Bo. What kind of guy is Wang Bo? Big guy. Big guy and also a guy who says, I won't become a successor of the greatest Zen master of all time. I won't do it. Because if I do, if I inherit and receive this teaching and become a successor to the greatest Zen master of all time, perhaps, I won't have descendants. That's the kind of guy he is. And what did he spend his time doing?

[76:21]

Well, one of the things he did was he did a lot of prostrations. Bow, bow, bow. How many he did, I don't know, but did a lot. Monks generally do a lot. He did a lot more than most. So the future emperor sees the head monk, Wang Bo, doing a lot of bows, and he says, I've heard, you know, that in Zen, they say, you know, Don't depend on Buddha. Usually we say, I take refuge in Buddha. I depend on Buddha. That is, then you say, don't depend on Buddha. Don't depend on Dharma. Don't depend on Sangha. So what's all this bowing about? Okay? Bowing, of course, he's bowing to Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. He's not just bowing in general, he's bowing to the altar, Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. That's what generally speaking Buddhists bow to. They bow to the triple treasure. So this particular person who you now have background on, he's doing this bowing practice, bowing to the triple treasure.

[77:29]

That's how he got a lump on his forehead. Yeah. That's how he got a jewel on his forehead. If you keep bowing, a little pearl will appear on your forehead. So the future emperor asked him that, and Wang Bo said, I don't depend on Buddha, I don't depend on Dharma, I don't depend on Sangha, and I always prostrate myself over and over again to Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. The point of bowing in Zen is is to not depend on what you're bowing to. Again, anybody can, like, not be attached to Buddha, Dharma and Sangha and, you know, never study. But to study all the texts and not depend on them, to study with the teacher and not depend on it, to devote your energy and your body to the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha and not depend on it, that's something. And in order to keep this going, this non-dependence,

[78:33]

on Buddha Dharma Sangha, we keep bowing in this way. We bow to show. We can bow without making something out there to bow to. Of course, we also bow and have something out there, but that kills it. As soon as you look at the Buddha and see the Buddha over there, you get an arrow in the eye. So can you bow to Buddha over and over without putting Buddha over there? This is the practice. He said, I don't depend on Buddha, I don't depend on Dharma, I don't depend on Sangha, and I'm always bowing. I'm doing lots of bows. So then the future emperor says, well, why do you do these bows? And Wang Bo says, oh, Wang Bo says, slaps him in the face.

[79:44]

I don't know if he knows this is the future emperor or not. And the young emperor, the future emperor says, too coarse. too coarse, too rough. And Wang Bo said, what place is this talk, what place is there for this talk of coarse and fine? And slaps him again. Then when this young guy becomes the emperor, one of the greatest emperors, one of the greatest Tang emperors, by the way, when he became emperor, he he gave Wang Bo an imperial name. The name was... Coarse Acting Monk. National title. How do you spell coarse? Rough, barbaric. Actually, Wang Bo was called a barbarian by his teacher. And then when Pei became prime minister, he suggested that the emperor give Wang Bo another name, which is Boundless Zen Master.

[81:08]

So he got two names from the emperor. So... The next story is called Yunyan's Great Compassion. Yunyan is the guy who was sweeping the ground, the famous sweeper. What? What? No, I'm just telling you what the next story is. I'm just telling you that that's the next story. If you want to look at the next story, that's it. Number 54. I think a little bit more on this story next week. One more week on Case 53. But I just want to tell you, if you want to start looking at 54, get ready for it. You can start now. Because as Lin Ji said, there's not much to Wang Bo. There's not much to him. He's such a great teacher, there's not much to him.

[82:13]

A lot's been made out of him. But really, there's not much to him. Wang Bo just wants you to, like, you know, stand on your own two feet and become Buddha without depending on anybody. That's all. He's just saying to me, there's no teachers, there's no Zen masters in all of China. And there's none in America either. Why didn't he stay home with his mother then? He could have stayed home with his mother. He could have. Yeah, and I think it's very good for you to meditate on Martha's perspective about his mother. Was she committing suicide? Well, did she commit suicide, or was she trying to help her son practice? Yeah. Was she trying to, like, say, you're going off now. I'd like you to see how important this is. Watch this. You better make this count, kid.

[83:18]

So it's not really suicide to give your life for dharma. Did she give her life for dharma or did she just slip? Did you come into this world for dharma or was it a mistake? Did you just fall into this body? Did somebody force you to be born? Or did you come here on purpose to save all sentient beings? Did she do that on purpose to help her son practice? Or was she just a dumb lady who forgot she didn't know how to swim? Which is it? Which story do you want? Make it the story that inspires you to become a great Buddha for the sake of all beings. Make it that story. What is that story? What is that understanding that will inspire you to do your practice without depending on anything while you constantly take refuge in Buddha, Dharma, Sangha with your whole body and mind? What would that story be?

[84:20]

Well, thank you very much for coming into the temple tonight. I hope you live long enough to realize what this story is about. I hope I can live long enough to see you realize it. And I hope that that that lady with the Minnesota accent won the Academy Award for Best Actress.

[85:05]

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