And so now we're on case 18. And... Jiao Jiao. Do you know who Jiao Jiao is? He's come up before, yes. Yeah, that's right. He's the student of Nan Xuan. Nan Xuan, the guy who held the cat up But Zhaozhou was not there at the time. Nobody could say anything when Nanchuan held the cat up. Later, Nanchuan told Zhaozhou about this, and Zhaozhou put his shoe on his head and walked out. And Nanchuan said, if you had been there, the cat's life would be spared. Chaozhou is like, you know, what can you say?

[01:04]

When he talked, flames came from his lips. It would have to be 120? 119. But I'm not sure, you know, if that's 119 by western counting and therefore eastern counting would be 120. I don't know exactly what he was like in the last few years. But he was, when he was 60, he was still traveling around studying. So he was, what can I say? Anyway, he's one of the, he's one of the kind of incredible creatures that appeared in Eastern culture, that appeared in Chinese culture. And strangely, he really didn't have any disciples that could come anywhere near matching him.

[02:16]

His effects seemed to be more horizontal than vertical. like he influenced sort of the whole country, but didn't have successors. Or successors, anyway, didn't carry on the tradition. So that's something to think about. But anyway, there's many stories about him. And so this person in his story is being asked a question, a simple question, does the dog have Buddha nature? And he answers, but this is... This is like a source. This is like going and asking a volcano. Does a dog have Buddha nature? And this whole volcano speaks Chinese, and it says no. Or it says yes. I guess the way I'm talking now, it's like Zhaozhou is like an oracle. That kind of creature.

[03:21]

nature could speak through him. So, last time we talked about the verse, I mean the introduction, kind of really nice introduction, and also this case is number one in the But let's just refresh our memory about the introduction. A gourd floating in water. Push it down and it turns. A jewel in sunlight. It has no definite shape. It cannot be attained by mindlessness nor known by mindfulness. Immeasurably great people are turned about in a stream of words.

[04:32]

Is there anyone who can escape? Probe a floating gourd in the water and it turns. A diamond in the sun has no fixed shape or color. No-mindedness cannot. Yes-mindedness cannot perceive. Even an immensely great person can be turned about by words. Is there any way to escape that? In the Mumonkana it says, a monk asked Jaojo, Has a dog blue in nature or not? Zhao Zhou said, Mu. And then the Zen teacher, Wen Mun, comments, For the practice of Zen, it is imperative that you pass beyond the barrier set up by the ancestral teacher.

[05:44]

For subtle realization, it is of utmost importance that you cut off the mind road If you do not pass through the barrier of the ancestors, if you do not cut off the mind road, then you are a ghost clinging to bushes and grasses. So, in the study of these koans, if you can cut off the mind road right away, go right ahead. But, practically speaking, cutting off the mind road is not just an intellectual thing.

[06:50]

You have to cut off the mind road with your whole body and mind. And the first level of entering into this situation is that the the story is presented in words. And the first level of penetration or insight into these words, or the first level of release from being turned about by the words the words of daily life and the words of the story, the first step is to take the words in and basically have some insight about the words, get the words, kind of understand the words.

[07:51]

And so again, in order to become free of words, we have to take words in and have insight at the level of words. Then next, After you have insight about the words, you can reflect upon your ongoing internal process in light of that first level of insight. And then you will have another level of insight from this kind of reflection upon your internal thinking process. Then, when you can't do any more than that, then you don't, you know, reflect

[08:59]

you just simply settle or become absorbed into your being, and through being you have the next level of insight, so that even your being is not turned about by words. And in this case I am suggesting that your being itself is turned about by words. That you are turned about at the level of intellectual process, at the level of basic perception, and your actual being is turned about by words. So these three levels of insight are possible and necessary. In Sanskrit, the first one is called shruta, s-h, no, s, with a slash over, it's like a sh, r-u-t-a, shruta, means by hearing.

[10:13]

And maya, Shrutamai. Mai means abandonment or release. And prajna means insight. So insight or release or by hearing. But it also means by seeing or smelling, touching or tasting. In other words, you get something in from the outside. Somebody tells you about Jaojo. You hear the story. You hear the introduction. you read the commentary, you hear the verse, you listen to the discussion in class, and at a certain point, ka-clunk, something happens, you have some insight. By stimulation from outside, in a sense. And that kind of insight often will happen in class. And also in class it is possible to do the next level and the next level, but they're less common in class because there's so much coming in, in terms of discussion, that it's hard to just sort of go in and reflect, but some people do that in class.

[11:35]

And you can have this level, this insight at the level of hearing, you can have over and over from many different angles, too. But there is another level, which happens by looking and reflecting inwardly. Or you're still thinking. And that one's called śrutta-mai prajna. No, excuse me, citta-mai prajna. Citta means over-related to thinking or reflecting. So insight by means of reflection or thinking. So like when I'm talking to you, and you're listening to me, then that's the first level, basically. And when I shut up, I don't know what you do, but you might actually try that to shift from what kind of insight you have when you're listening about this case, and then maybe I'll stop a few times and then see if you can turn inwardly and start reflecting on the case inwardly and see how you do it.

[13:17]

I think what may happen in some cases is if you're in a listening mode, if you're working at that level, when the instructor stops talking, you may just sit and wait for the next input, which is fine. But I would suggest if we do that tonight, that you don't just wait for the next thing necessarily, but you look and see what happens inside relative to what's going on for you. So in the Munmongkong it says you must cut off the mind road, and that's similar to becoming free from the, what does it say, the stream of words.

[14:38]

Oh, I didn't do the third one, sorry. And then the next one... is after having insight at the level of thinking, then you go one step deeper and have insight at the level of being. So, in a sense, it's first from outside things are coming in through the eyes and ears and so on, and that can lead to an insight. Then inwardly reflecting can lead to insight, and being is not really inside or outside. Being is not inside or outside. When you can't think any more about something, when you can't reflect any more about it, when you've thoroughly thought about it and reflected upon it, that's the gate to a meditation which is simply being.

[16:04]

And it's called, in Sanskrit, bhavana-maye prajna. And bhavana means, bhava means being, and bhavana means, like, not just being, but but cultivating being or being immersed or immersed or absorbed in being. Now, we can practice bhavana. Bhavana also sometimes is translated meditation. Sometimes bhavana is translated as meditation, a kind of absorption in being. And in Buddhism there's two kinds of bhavana.

[17:15]

Sometimes they also speak of bhavana marga, Marga means path. There's two paths of meditation. One path of meditation is a path of meditation that has outflow. In other words, you're still involved in a sense of gain and loss. And that kind of meditation leads to insight. or may lead to insight, insight into selflessness. And after that, the bhavana marga, the path of meditation, doesn't have outflows any longer. So, when studying these stories, the way to actually study them

[18:22]

so that they are going to cause insight which will lead you into the practice of meditation, which is a selfless meditation, would be that as you approach these stories, you approach from the point of view of meditation also. Now, it would be nice to have a blackboard behind me right now, but I don't have one, so I'll have to ask you to use your imagination to understand what I'm saying. So these stories can be studied from the point of view of, well, this is Zen culture here, and you're in a class on Zen folklore.

[20:08]

You're learning about Zen stories, the stories of the Zen tradition, and you're becoming familiar with the stories and the characters of Zen history. And that's quite interesting, I think, and lovely, a lot of these stories. which is fine. You're welcome to experience that level, and I do myself. There's another way to approach these, though, is that you're practicing meditation, bhavana, all the time. In other words, you're cultivating being all the time or anyway certainly as you approach these stories you are and then when you hear these stories and read these stories they can cause an insight to occur to you who are meditating and you can you can enter or re-enter

[21:21]

a new form of meditation at that time. You need not label yourself as doing meditation which has outflow. On the other hand, it's certainly okay, I think, to be open to the possibility that your meditation does have outflow. And I also wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of you do not know what I'm talking about when I say meditation without flow. Am I correct? That you're just meditating without flow, perhaps, listening to me talk about meditation without outflow. It's okay. It's very patient and calm of you. Most people in the world are involved in having a mind that has outflows, and most Buddhist meditators, when they practice meditation, practice in such a way that it has outflows.

[22:43]

Perhaps we are that way too. So an example of practicing with outflows would be that you are practicing meditation, that you're being... you're practicing awareness of what's happening to you and that you subtly or grossly have some philosophical position as to the existence of your experience. You may not know that you have such a philosophical position But most people do. And maybe you do too. In other words, that you think your experience exists. Or that you think your experience doesn't exist. Or that you are practicing meditation hoping to get something out of it.

[23:51]

Or, which is a similar... Somebody just came in the room. Or you practice meditation in order to... Did I say your name, Stephen, before, when we said the names? Or you practice meditation hoping not so much to gain something, but hoping to avoid something that's really bad. or try to gain something by getting rid of something you don't like. For example, try to get rid of pain. That would be an example of a meditation that has outflows. If you're meditating in order to get rid of pain, or if you're meditating in order to get rid of distraction, or if you're meditating in order to get rid of anger, or if you're meditating in order to get rid of lust, or if you're meditating in order to get rid of nervousness or anxiety, or envy or jealousy, or if you're meditating in order to get smarter or better looking or lose weight.

[25:08]

These are various forms of meditation in order to get something or avoid something. some of the meditation I just mentioned could actually be wholesome. In other words, actually give you some benefit. So most people walking around all day long, whether they say so or not, are doing that kind of meditation. They don't call it meditation because because they don't. But you could call it meditation. They're concentrating on trying to get something out of their life, or avoid something. But they may not think of it as mental culture, but in fact, in some kind of confused way, they're trying to manipulate their consciousness.

[26:15]

Taking alcohol and other drugs, going to movies, talking to some people rather than other people also can be seen as a kind of cultivation of your being in order to get something. You can follow your breath in order to accomplish all the things I mentioned. Okay? So those are examples of meditation without flow. Do you have any questions about meditation without flow? Do any of you... I don't want to ask you. Do you have any questions on meditation without flow? I'm curious about the word outflow. Why outflow? Well, actually, another word is leak. And another word is inflow.

[27:18]

or flood, or leakage. So, these kinds of meditations can lead you to a sense of getting something, of gaining something, of getting bigger and stronger, and of improving yourself. That sense of improvement, especially if your meditation is motivated by that sense of improvement and then to accomplish that, is an outflow that has leakage. Is that enough? Okay. Any questions about this meditation? This type of meditation? Is taking a judgment as to whether you meditate with outflow is good or bad, sort of another outflow? I mean, it just... Yes, it is another outflow. I mean, it almost seems... Once I remember you saying minds are... but made to think, that's what they do, and maybe that's also what we do, these outflows.

[28:32]

Every mental function has this kind of outflow to it, too. Faith in something has a kind of leakage or outflow. Anger itself, has outflow. Effort has outflow. Concentration has outflow. All the mental functions have outflow. Everything has outflow, except the total ecology of your mind doesn't have outflow. And for most of us, as we approach our life prior to meditation, or as we start to meditate, it's basically not reasonable that we would... I mean, basically it is reasonable to expect that our meditation would start out as this kind of meditation, which could be called... Another word for it would be worldly, or you could say impure. So I don't, you know, I'm not, this is just, you have to go through this phase.

[29:44]

And as I say, it can be, it can lead to very wholesome states and you can develop high levels of insight and mindfulness with this kind of meditation. But at a certain point, on the Buddhist path, this meditation practice which has outflows should be connected with, for example, a story like this, which starts to give you a teaching about which you can have insight. And when you start having insight at these three levels, then your meditation can change from a meditation which is trying to get something into a meditation which is not trying to get something. And when you change from a meditation that is trying to get something or that has this kind of get-something motivation to a meditation that doesn't have the get-something motivation, then you really start to get something.

[31:06]

Before that, you're getting something. If you're practicing in a wholesome way, you're accumulating wholesome energy, energy which is supportive and promoting life, but it won't hold. But when you switch from this meditation with outflow to a meditation that doesn't have outflow, Then you're setting up a meditation which is actually like settling into the nature of reality. And your life starts to become, get in congruence and intimacy with reality itself. Until you achieve gridlock with the way things are, and then there's no suffering. Prior to that, the meditation will relieve your suffering, but you're always vulnerable to getting off again because of this gaining idea or because of this belief in some form of existence, in some category of existence.

[32:36]

So these stories can be used to take a person who's practicing meditation with this gaining idea and jiggle them a little bit to change the way they're meditating to a quite different approach, an approach which is no longer trying to get anything. And again, as Mahayana Buddhists, as bodhisattvas, if you're trying to get something called the salvation of all beings, The meditation practice you need in order to accomplish this incredible feat is this meditation without outflow. That's the meditation which will help you do this incredible thing called save, not just one, but innumerable, inconceivable beings. Yes?

[33:39]

They happen simultaneously also. What does what happen simultaneously? Those two ways of experiencing. What two ways? Outflows and that sort of meditative outflow place and second waves. Yeah, they're happening simultaneously, right. Because right now, the total ecology is happening. And that total ecology, the being of that total ecology, is this meditation which doesn't have outflow. It's going on right now. It's just that if we are believing in the existence of our limited take on this situation, then we're not in communication and intimacy with this un-gaining, un-losing meditation practice.

[34:50]

So again, like that image of Dogen, when you go out in the ocean and where there's no islands and you look around, you think the ocean is a circle of water. And that's how it looks, it doesn't look any other way. But that's not what the ocean is. The ocean is not a circle of water. A circle of water is an example of something that has outflow. You know what I mean? If you're out in the ocean, a circle of water, water flows into it and flows out of it. A big wave can suddenly come from beyond your view and comes crashing into your world. Or somebody, or, you know, or water could leak out of your little world. But the ocean is not gaining or losing anything. But your little world is. If you believe in that little world and are trying to improve that little world, well, you can see that's kind of silly to try to be into manipulating or controlling in a little circle of water in the middle of such a big event.

[36:00]

Obviously, that's not going to be very effective. But that's what we do a good share of the time. And when we first start meditating, Ladies and gentlemen, that's how a lot of people start meditating. They try to control this little circle of water. And when you first try, you're actually quite successful. Awful. You know, you sit down and say, well, I'm following my breath. You can be successful. I followed my breath today. I was pretty good. I counted to ten or whatever. Or I sat still. Or I made it through the period. Whatever. But as you sit in the circle of water longer, you start to notice that things are not under control. As a matter of fact, the longer you sit, the more you realize that what happens in the circle of water is not under control. Oh my God, look, here comes one of those Exxon tankers. My God, where did that come from? the water's getting cold, and so on.

[37:18]

And ironically for senior Zen students, or experienced Zen students, the gift of living in the circle of water for a long time is that more and more they realize that they're losing control of their mind. that they realize they can't even control this whole circle of water. But they become mature enough to... to allow themselves to admit that. When you first start meditating, you can't... I shouldn't say you can't, but most people can't stand when they first start meditating to immediately confront the fact that they have no control. Awesome. Is that true? I mean, do you know what I mean? It's too much, I mean, it's bad enough to have life's problems, but then to go to a place to meditate and find out that even more reasons why you, you know, you can't control anything, plus you go to a place, it's just too much.

[38:39]

So most people just... They find a little place that they can have a sense of control for a while. That's good. That's kind of wholesome. But as you become more mature, you can let go of that more and more. You still can't see the whole ocean. And you'll never be able to see the whole ocean. But in fact, the whole ocean is not gaining or losing anything. So this... Just a second. So the meditation of going into the circle of water and believing that the circle of water is what's happening is an example, is a metaphor or an image of what it's like to meditate with a gaining idea. You believe this circle of water exists.

[39:39]

Or another alternative would be to be in the circle of water and say, this circle of water does not exist. There would be another... But that's not true either, that it doesn't exist. Because it does, sort of. It's in the middle of the ocean, but it kind of exists. So anyway, you're meditating there on what's happening, and then somebody rolls into your circle in a little boat and comes and tells you a story about Jojo. Does a circle of water have the Buddha nature? So, first time he says... Yes. Yes.

[40:42]

You have a question? Yeah. Is your name Robert? My question was, how do you know that the ocean is the end of the world? How do you know it? You don't know it. How do you make it there? By any statement? By scripture. By reasoning. and by realization. Scriptures say that the whole mind doesn't gain or lose anything in a given moment. And if you reason about it, I think you can see that. And at a certain point, you can actually kind of get some kind of certainty about that through your practice. Everything we do from now on will be dealing with that question.

[42:00]

So, again, if you want to use this story as a kind of like... So right now, everybody in this class is in some state. Or, I don't know, in a state, but there's a state for each person. And I propose to you that this story is about this situation. The states that are in this room, the states of the different beings

[43:13]

Now, if you say to these states, or does this state and this state, does this state have the Buddha nature? One answer is yes. Now, the verse, the verse later says... Don't blame him for not being careful in the beginning. Okay. Does he understand what that means? Don't blame him for not being careful in the beginning. Does that make sense? What does that mean? Don't blame him for what? Don't blame him for saying yes. The monk says to Jiaojiao, does a dog have Buddha nature or not? Jiaojiao says, yes.

[44:17]

The verse says, don't blame him for not being careful in the beginning. If someone says, in this room right now, these people or these states, these experiences that are happening, then let's not, you know, let's temporarily just talk about these experiences. There's experiences all over the room right now, all these localized experiences. Right? Actually happening a mile a minute. Experience, experience, experience, experience. Everybody's like going through heavy change right now. Moment by moment you're having, there are experiences, right? Does a dog have Buddha nature? One way to understand it is, does this experience have Buddha nature or not? Zhaozhou is such a wonderful Zen teacher. being a little uncareful, he says, yes.

[45:23]

If you think you're asking, does this state you're in have Buddha nature or not, he says, yes. But then you ask, why would the Buddha nature come into this experience And Jaojo says, because it knowingly and willingly transgresses, the Buddha nature comes into all these, each one of these places, the Buddha nature keeps penetrating each place and then and does it over again. Every moment the Buddha nature is penetrating all these places. Is that the Buddha nature? Well, he said, yes. But in a sense, then the monk says, do these states have the Buddha nature or not? And he says, no. Is that right?

[46:27]

Well, no. Not exactly. But at least, as it says, again, it says... making an even presentation, he throws the shop wide open. So he makes an even presentation, namely, he says yes, and then he says no. All these people and all of us together here are in the same state. We're in a state which is all of us. There's a mind which is all of our minds. And not just all of our minds, but all minds. That's not Buddha nature. That's Buddha mind. That's Buddha.

[47:28]

But Buddha nature, the nature of Buddha is that it reaches every living creature. It penetrates into the being of every creature, every moment, every living creature, every moment. That's the function of Buddha. That's Buddha nature. That's the nature of Buddha, is it does that. So, looking at your particular state, Buddha nature penetrates it, and your state, just as it is, is precisely what Buddha nature is. because it's not only that Buddha-nature is there, but it is exactly that Buddha-nature is there that is Buddha-nature. But still, it's not that because it's all, it's the fact that it reaches everywhere, not just that it reaches you. And it's also that you reach everywhere.

[48:35]

So yes and no are both right and both wrong. And also, Buddha nature has nothing to do with this discussion. And that's not really what Buddha nature is talking about, whether you have it or not have it. Or whether you're talking about this or not talking about this. This kind of instruction is a kind of instruction for us who are doing meditation or who are practicing Buddhism in order to get something. This kind of instruction will help us make a switch in our meditation practice from one that's trying to get something or improve us to one that brings us into the state which will actually help people. which will actually get people in touch with the resources which they actually already have.

[49:47]

You don't have to import anything to help people. You simply have to reveal their light, which they already have. But first of all, the teaching must reveal my light and your light to each of us. And that's what this story is for. So, yes. So, he couldn't be careful as long as he's using words. Is that true? Well, no, he could have been careful. He could have said, instead of saying yes, he could have said, well, I'd rather not say because if I say yes, that wouldn't be very careful. If I say no, that wouldn't be very careful. So I'd rather not answer the question. But that's a little bit uncareful, too, because if I don't answer the question, how come I'm talking? Well, then if it goes one way or another, you actually get more out of it.

[50:50]

Exactly. So you could have said something like, does this dog have a good nature? He said the answer would be by answering, or good mom, good nature. He could have said that. That might have been a little more careful. But he got right into it. But it's interesting, he got right into it, and then the monks asked him, if the dog does have Buddha nature, why would it get into this form? And Zhaozhou says, because it knowingly and willingly transgresses. And Zhaozhou knowingly and willingly transgressed when he got into the conversation in the first place. The imagery of the poem is a kind of bait. Right. The imagery of the poem is that we have a baiting thing here. And also, Jiaojiao is using what's called a straight hook. He's not trying to catch the living person.

[51:52]

He's trying to catch the part of the person that turns away from life. So he uses a straight hook. He goes right in there just like an ordinary person and says no or yes. We are, ladies and gentlemen, at this very moment, something in the neighborhood of a hair's breadth deviation away from realization. Why didn't he answer mu?

[53:10]

Why did... Did he not answer mu? He did answer mu. The monk asked him, does a dog have Buddha nature? And he said, no. That's mu. But mu to me means more. My understanding of mu is that it's neither yes nor no. That's right. It is neither yes nor no, but so is yo, which means yes. That's also yes nor no. What do you think? I think that's funny too. That means yes. It has. And that has nothing to... In this conversation, that has nothing to do with having or not having.

[54:16]

You know, like that Louis Armstrong song that Jordan gave me a tape of it. I see... friends shaking hands, saying, how do you do? What they're really saying is, I love you. No matter what is happening all day long, what people are actually saying to each other is, I love you. If somebody says, does a dog get bored in nature? If you say yes, then what really you're saying is, I love you. If you say no, you're saying the same thing, basically. If you don't answer, you're saying the same thing.

[55:18]

If you do answer, you're saying the same thing. You're always saying the same thing, there's only one thing you're saying. That's Buddha. That's the only thing it ever says, I love you. it's reaching into the one who's asking, it's reaching into the one who's responding. It's always the same. When you hate people, really, what's going on there is you love them. You hate them because they're teaching you who you are and you'd rather not hear about yourself. You'd rather not expand into this and be this.

[56:24]

Therefore, you hate. You get angry. But really what it means is that you love. Everyone is this way all the time. Who needs saving? There's nobody to save. But the ones who understand that best only have one thing in mind, and that is to save people. There's nothing else to do except be. To get back to what Bill said, is the idea of saving people kind of like a full-time myth to help people get into self-development?

[57:37]

I mean, in some ways, if there's nobody to save, it doesn't mean that there's not this person to save. It doesn't mean that there's not this person to save, and it doesn't mean that there's not that person to save. It doesn't mean that. All it means is there's no person to save. But it doesn't mean there is no person or that there is a person. When we say there is no person to save, that's just a way of talking about what a person is. Well, it seems to be talking about how to save a person. And it's also talking about how to save a person. The way to save a person is to save yourself from the person. When you get saved from somebody and you look back at them, they have a chance of being saved too.

[58:42]

But you have to look at the person and see what you think and give it up. That's called love, which you're doing all the time anyway, but it's hard to be alert to it. what is it you give up? you give up your view of the person which you do anyway all the time like you see a you see a such and such type of person and instead of just giving that up and seeing another kind of a person you keep seeing the same kind of person called clinging But really you're giving that all up, moment after moment. Actually, you are doing that. You're actually already doing this meditation which has no gain or loss all the time.

[59:54]

And yet, We need to look at the story, or stories like this, to cut off somehow this habit, this strange, powerful habit called the mind road, or self-clinging, et cetera, et cetera. Yes? I'm not sure if I mean what or where. So, I'll say both. If there are no beings to save, in what or where are the cries for help coming from? If there are no beings to save does not mean that there's no beings to save. When we say there's no beings to save, that's indicating to you

[61:07]

how to save those beings. You know the beings that you see that you're trying to save? Okay. When we say there's no beings to save, that gives you a hint of how to save them. It doesn't mean that there aren't there suffering. Can you see a suffering person? See somebody who's crying for help? Okay. Why are they crying for help? Because they're not happy. Because they don't realize they're Buddha. Right? That's why they're crying. So, realizing that there's nobody there to save is a hint to you about how to save them. How do you save them? How would you save them? Realize that they're not there. If you realize that they're not there, maybe you could help them realize that they're not there. And if they would realize that they weren't there, they would stop thinking that they were there the way they think they're there, and they would stop crying.

[62:13]

Not only would they stop crying, but they could even become Buddha. So no suffering is an instruction to people who are trying to relieve people's suffering. In the morning, relieve people's suffering. How do you relieve people's suffering? Well, one of the ways is to realize that there's nobody there. That will help you relieve the person there who's suffering. But do you tell that person words? Which comes first to that person? You tell them that they're not there? No, you just told it to them. What's the matter? Where does it hurt?

[63:14]

Relax the muscle. Do it again. She's sad. Come on. All right. You, uh, You engage the person somehow. And sometimes you say, get out of here. That's sometimes the way you tell them. The point, the main point is, do you understand how to help them? The main way to understand how to help them is to not take yourself seriously. If you don't take yourself seriously, you're more likely to be able to help them not take themselves seriously.

[64:22]

If you don't take yourself seriously, you won't be so afraid of other people. And if they're suffering, and you don't take yourself seriously, you might notice that you just kind of go tumbling right down into their body and mind. You know, now on the other hand, if you think, well, this is going to be a bit much for them, you might say, well, take it easy. I don't want to frighten you and press too hard on your cheek muscles. Also, if you don't take yourself seriously, you won't be so afraid of getting busted for being honest. And also, you won't be afraid to apologize when you blow it. in your stupid efforts to help people, by just... by just basically not taking yourself seriously is the main way, and engage with them. When a person feels the hand of another person who doesn't take himself seriously, they feel they learn something through the hands.

[65:29]

Does the dog have Buddha nature? Does this state have Buddha nature or not? Yes. Why would it be like this? Why would Buddha nature come into this skin bag? I was, you know, thinking about taking attendance or, you know... Yeah, taking attendance. We should take attendance in this class. So tonight we will take attendance, right? Did everybody sign that piece of paper? No, where is that piece of paper? This is an exercise in skin-bagging. So you haven't signed any papers over there? Who's got the paper? Who had that paper? What? No problem. Where's the piece of paper? Okay. So you have two pieces?

[66:37]

Do you have the resident and non-resident right there? Okay, great. Get that resident one over here after, of course, Gloria. Gloria, did you sign? Please, sign Gloria. You know, this way we have all the skin bag's names on a piece of paper. But this taking attendance is skin bagging. For me, it's getting into the skin bag of somebody who's trying to take attendance here. I'd rather not be in such a skin bag. I'd rather be a Buddha that didn't have to take attendance. So it doesn't necessarily mean you're here. No, I'm just saying. It means that Buddha nature is willing to be here. It means Buddha nature is willing to be here. That's the way it's here. It's not here like here like any category of here. It is completely willing to be here. Willingness is not something which you can pin down to some location. Therefore, it can be everywhere.

[67:37]

We're always taking attendance. Well, yeah, we always are taking attendance, right. But sometimes we think, I'd rather not get involved in such dirty details. Residence. Willingness is not something you can think of. To a location. But it will... Well, even willpower, you know, it's hard to say where willpower is, but a willingness to be here in all these different places is Buddha-nature. Buddha-nature is willing to be all of us. There is a fundamental willingness to be these living beings, moment after moment. I read a phrase, it was something like, willing to be confused. And I kept thinking about that as you were speaking earlier in the class, and it seems to me that in some way reading these koans requires a willingness to be confused.

[68:42]

Yes. Willingness to be confused, and there's two senses to that. One is willing yourself to be confused, and the other is allowing yourself to be confused. We will ourselves to be confused, and then we also should allow ourselves to admit that we're confused. And Buddha nature is the part that's willing to be there no matter what. Somebody's willing to be here all the time, never afraid to be here. No matter how bad it gets, somebody's willing to be here. And also, in order to be here, that one has to screw up a little bit. You can't get into this situation, this one who's willing to be here also has to pay an entrance fee to scoot into this person. So it willingly and knowingly transgresses, but it knows it's transgressing. We, human beings, the human part of us, isn't willingly transgressing necessarily, nor is it knowingly transgressing.

[69:46]

It often mindlessly, unwillingly transgresses. The Buddha nature willingly and knowingly transgresses. The Bodhisattva nature knowingly and willingly transgresses. gets involved in the dirty details willingly. And there's no detail too dirty for it. And there's no being too dirty for it. And why is there no being too dirty for it? Because there's no beings. But not no beings like the opposite of that there is beings, but no beings in that the way beings are is so incredibly attractive that it is just totally, what do you call it, irresistible to the Buddha nature. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the line in the verse, making even presentation, he throws the shop wide open.

[70:55]

Is that in the sense of giving away the store or something? Just gives it all away freely? Exactly. Exactly. Making the presentation evenly, this is Buddha nature. She has Buddha nature. She doesn't have Buddha nature. That's opening the store up, throwing the doors open, saying you can have whatever you want. It's a very grand presentation. Extremely grand. This is a very grand thing. Do you know how grand this is? How grand this fellow is, Zhao Zhou? Throwing his store wide open to us. But do we have enough faith to enter and loot? How did he know the second one was going to ask the question?

[72:00]

They were all planes. Jiaojiao is the ocean. Yes? Also, in the verse, chasing the air, pursuing fragrance, plowing water travelers in noisy confusion to make excuses and explanation. And there's some explication of that commentary. But explication, even with the explication still, I have trouble with that couple. I don't know who the record is for cloud and water troubles. Well, you know, the simple-minded approach, I knowingly and willingly transgress. The cloud and water, what was that about? Dragons. Dragons?

[73:01]

The straight hook basically catches fish. If you turn away from life and into the commentary, it says that the straight hook catches dragons. The straight harpoon catches ferocious dragons. The curved hook catches clams. So aren't dragons pot of water? Dragons are, but also the name for a Zen monk who's traveling is a cloud in water. These monks who are wandering about in Zhaozhou at 60 was a cloud in water traveler. In other words, also another way you can say is instead of a cloud in water traveler, you can say a cloud in water guest. a guest, someone who comes in to the teacher who is the host. But when you come as a guest into a situation, a traveling monk, and someone offers you a straight hook, what they catch is the dragon inside you.

[74:17]

And this story and tonight's class I hope is a straight hook. The part of you that's alive I haven't been interested in actually. It's not my interest. Buddha is not worried about living creatures who are really alive because that's Buddha. There's no need for Buddha. Buddha is talking about anybody who's turning away from what they are and how do we help them How do we get them back in the path? Fish with a straight hook. In other words, don't do anything. In other words, there's no beings to save. That's how to save them. Go up to somebody who's turning away from their life and get him back on the track by not taking them seriously. But fundamentally, you have to take yourself not seriously. That's the key. And again, the irony or the miracle is that when I don't take myself seriously, I all the more engage other people.

[75:48]

And not only that, but I don't have to run out the door to engage them. But when they knock, I'm ready. But if I take myself seriously, it's not that I'm ready. It's just that I say yes to some and no to others. And I can't help myself. I'm a puppet. If I take myself seriously, I'm a puppet. And I can be made to do anything. I'm just a circle of water in the middle of the ocean. But when I don't take the circle of water seriously, this water doesn't get pushed around by the ocean. And yet this water isn't the ocean, really, either. So you can say, no, it's not Buddha nature.

[76:51]

So our job is partly... to be meditating whatever way we can to be aware of the state because the state is the dog. You've got to have the dog. You've got to have a state. You've got to have an experience. That's our job. You have to be at home to ask the question, does this house, does this state, does this dog have the Buddha nature or not? Does the Buddha nature reach here or not? Is compassion hesitating to reach this state or not? Are you interested in... Are you interested... Is anybody interested in compassion which wouldn't visit here right now? Maybe so. I am not the slightest bit interested in that kind of low-quality compassion that doesn't reach each of us right now.

[78:05]

I don't care about such compassion. I'm not going to spend my time on it. I don't mean to sound rigid, but that's the way I feel. I'm into the top-of-the-line compassion which completely penetrates every living being every moment. But still, I have to check my state to see and experience, does it reach this seeing? Does it reach this hearing? Does it reach this thinking? Does it reach this tasting? I have to be there to celebrate this compassion, the Buddha nature reaching my life, releasing me from taking myself seriously. Compassion, first, you know, basically saving me from taking my state seriously, like it should be different from this. And when I witness of compassion and I'm released from taking my state seriously, then I'm ready for a guest.

[79:10]

Then I become a host, and I'm ready for a guest. And again, ready means I don't know who it's going to be or what they're going to be like. And I might like them, I might dislike them, it doesn't matter. If I'm ready, I learn from whatever kind of host comes, whatever kind of guest comes. So this is a story about compassion. This is a story about how to cut the mind road so that you can really be a bodhisattva. And no beings to save means cut the mind road. So you can save beings. Cut the mind road means release yourself from what you think people are. Did everybody sign up now?

[80:17]

Okay. Yes? Everybody signed up? Well, good. So now, we took attendance. And so for the rest of the week, you have to keep doing it on your own, okay? And when we find no one there? Pardon? And when we find no one there? Well, wait a second now. Last time I asked you about this, what did you say? Yes. No, I said, are you such a person? What did you say? Anybody who doesn't find someone there is welcome. Anybody who does find someone will get a reward. Ten dollar reward. This case, next week I'd like to study this case some more.

[81:28]

And again, I'd like you to actually try to meditate this week on what, you know, be present with what you are every moment for the next 168 hours. Okay? And then, in that presence, ask this question, What's the question? Does a dog have Buddha nature? Does a dog have Buddha nature? Does this have Buddha nature? Is this Buddha nature? How is this Buddha nature? Or just you can make it short, you can say mu. It's kind of a summary of the whole question. Okay? What's the matter? I was just wondering... How is that a summary? Is it... opposed to answering the question for yourself before you get a chance to look at it? Well, it's just, that's just the traditional summary. This story, these stories, all these stories have what are called eyes.

[82:35]

Okay? And the traditional eye of this story, of the second part of this story, the traditional eye is the word mu. Usually the eye is at the beginning or the end of the sentence. Usually. Usually. It could be in the middle, but usually these verbal expressions, at the beginning or the end of the story, or the beginning and end of the sentence, at the head or the tail of the sentence is usually where the I is. In this particular story, mu is at the end of the story. It's the I of the story, usually. So it's not really an answer. It's more like the door or the I of the story. So if you want to pick another part of the story for the I, you can. The usual I for the story is mu. But that's an I into your state. You're supposed to be this state, this experience.

[83:35]

Put an I in the experience. Look into the experience and see if compassion is being realized in this experience, like right now. Is compassion reaching you right now? In other words, are you taking yourself seriously right now? And are you relieved of that right now? But in order to check that out, you've kind of got to be home and be honest with yourself. So you can also call this, if you wish, fishing yourself with a straight hook. See what you catch. Well, I've basically been just going over the same thing all night, and so...

[84:52]

Since now it's up to you to see what you can find out, and then report back next week here, okay? And by the way, before I forget, next week the date of a class will be the 4th, right? Is that right? And then the next week after that, the class will be, what will the date be? The 11th, right? 4 plus 7 is 11. Carry the 1, subtract, right? But the 11th I won't be here. So remember, we have to decide what to do on the 11th next week. Okay? So, it's next Tuesday next week? Because Monday is the 3rd. No, I don't think so. Monday is the 4th, according to me and some of the so we will have class on the 4th but on the 11th we should decide what to do next week so next week I'd like you to actually come back having done some homework one simple way to do it is just do it right now then you'll be done for the week but if you do it now you could also continue it perhaps the rest of the week

[86:22]

I don't know if your poor little hearts will be able to stand it, to be so intimate with yourself, moment after moment, and to look to see if Buddha's compassion is reaching you completely or not. But I actually am asking you to do that, and I will try myself. I've just started. Okay? Try to do that. Try to put this koan in your heart in the middle of your experience, and keep going back again and again to what's happening with you and whether compassion is reaching this experience again and again. Try to do that all week. See how it goes, and then next week we'll come together and discuss our practice. Okay? And then we'll pass out case 19 next week. This is called being willing to be in the skin bag.

[87:26]

Knowingly and willingly entering the skin bag.

[87:35]

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