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Transcending Stages: Zen vs Structure
AI Suggested Keywords:
The talk explores the intricate balance between the traditional Indian Buddhist presentation of meditation through systematic stages and the Zen emphasis on transcending such stages with the notion of a "true person of no rank." It contrasts the structured method of the Four Foundations of Mindfulness—establishing the frame, developing it, and ultimately transcending it—with Zen's focus on immediate awareness and non-attachment. The discussion emphasizes the necessity for mindful practice free from hindrances such as sensual desire and doubt to achieve genuine contemplative progress, with practical instruction on mindful daily actions.
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The Four Foundations of Mindfulness (Satipatthana Sutra): This text outlines the stages of mindfulness practice, emphasizing body, feelings, mind, and mental objects. It forms the basis of structured meditation stages opposed by Zen's philosophy of transcending stages.
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37 Wings of Enlightenment: Often cited in Indian Buddhist texts, these practices outline a path to enlightenment in detailed stages, which Zen practice tends to interpret flexibly.
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Ekayana (The one vehicle path): Highlighted as either the "only" or "direct" path in Pali and Sanskrit texts, illustrating the significance of direct practice leading to transformative realization.
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Dogen Zenji's Teachings: Implicit throughout the talk is the influence of Dogen’s teachings on the acceptance of the "person of no rank," reflecting a Zen approach to the transcendence of stages and ranks.
This analysis aids in understanding the tension between structured teachings and the Zen approach, guiding students in applying mindful practice beyond theoretical confines.
AI Suggested Title: Transcending Stages: Zen vs Structure
Side: A
Speaker: Tenshin Reb Anderson
Location: The Yoga Room
Possible Title: Week 4
Additional text:
@AI-Vision_v003
I've been studying quite a bit for this class and I'm really enjoying studying these early teachings and contemplating their relationship to modern life and particularly to Zen practice. One thing that comes up I'll just say that this is the subtitle of this class is A Course in Zen Meditation. And this type of teaching that's been presented here, like 37 Wings of Enlightenment, and then not only these 37 wings, but there's, for example, as I'll mention later today, in relationship to the four foundations of mindfulness, there's stages
[01:00]
that one goes through in the practice of that. And one of the kind of like points of emphasis in Zen, although to some extent it's rhetorical, is a devotion to not fall into stages or steps and stages. Another part of Zen is this kind of like one of our emblematic expressions is a true person of no rank. A person, a true person of no rank, no stages. It doesn't mean there's no stages. It just means that there's this true person who doesn't fall into concern or attachment to any stage of development. Thank you. So that's part of that sort of background dynamic or in some sense inherent contradiction between Zen meditation and this type of teaching.
[02:20]
Indian presentation of Buddhist meditation is often presented as lists of uh practices in lists of lists of practices so this is like very typical uh indian style of presentation and meditation to at least 37 things and then various stages within the 37. um this having lists of things was also somewhat transmitted to india i mean to tibet and china but then uh as I said, tends to try to help, primarily tries to help us not to get caught in stages. In some sense, to be free of all distinctions of first, second, third, fourth, and fifth stage, and particularly even be free of the distinction of
[03:23]
unenlightened and enlightened to become free of the distinction of Buddhas and unenlightened beings. That's the ultimate distinction to not fall into. And yet I think it's really good exercise, particularly for Zen students, to study these Indian texts that present stages and try to find some way to bring benefit from such a study to the world. I want to say this thing about stages. at the beginning, and then I'll try to point in the text again to the business of stages. So I think that in this particular sutra, and also in most of these presentations of these seven sets of meditation practices, there's three stages.
[04:34]
First stage, In terms of the four foundations of mindfulness, the first stage is called the foundation of mindfulness. The first stage in the foundation of mindfulness is called setting the foundation of mindfulness. Or the first stage is the establishing. of the mindfulness, or the first stage is establishing the frame for the mindfulness practice. So the first stage is simply the name of this practice. It's to merely establish the foundation. And that's the stage actually that I think as a group we're working on right now. The second stage is the stage of developing the foundation. Oh, and I also thought... I'll just go on, I'll come back to it.
[05:48]
The second stage is developing a foundation of mindfulness, of developing the establishment, of developing the frame of mindfulness. So the first one is called in Pali, satipatthana, which literally means foundation of mindfulness, establishment of mindfulness, frame of mindfulness. Okay, that's the first stage. Second stage is satipatthana bhavana, to develop or cultivate the foundation of mindfulness. And the third stage is the stage called the practice leading to the development of mindfulness. That's three stages. Okay, now I'd like to look at the text and point out to you the three stages in the text of the Foundations of Mindfulness text.
[07:12]
But before I do that, I just want to do a little bit of work on the first paragraph wherein the Buddha says There he addressed bhikkhus, and he said, bhikkhus, I'd like to deal with this word bhikkhu. It's a bhikkhu, it means usually trying to say it as monk, and it means male monk, and the female monks are called bhikshunis. In India, these monks were people who left home to live a homeless life. They sometimes lived together in housing units, particularly during the rainy season.
[08:15]
They would get together and sometimes live in a sheltered area during the rain. But sometimes they built more elaborate monasteries over the centuries that followed. But the idea was that this was not their home. They didn't own it. It wasn't theirs. However, they might have built it, and they might have lived in a monastery for 60 or 80 years, but it was considered to be not their home. It's a place they lived after leaving home. So that's one of the main meanings of bhikkhu or monk in India. This is a teaching addressed to monks. So I think part of the big question for your life is to what extent are you a monk? Which is similar to what extent do you wish to listen to the teachings and do the practices
[09:15]
that were addressed to the monks. So I mentioned in the first few classes that the prerequisite for this teaching here is that one is like practicing, being contented with what one is given. That kind of training is what the Buddha practiced and what the monks who are addressing practice. And in some ways it would be very difficult to understand and practice his teachings if you don't practice the disciplines of virtue, which are to not eat too much, eat moderately, and not be covetous of other people's food. and other people's clothing, other people's housing, other people's cars, other people's spouse, so all this kind of like contentment with what you have as a basic training for this meditation.
[10:29]
It may be the case. Who knows? This is a big question, the transmission of the Buddha Dharma to this country. America is there. whatever you want to say about it. Anyway, it's hard to resist saying something at this point. But anyway, it is a very powerful country, a country where a lot of people seem to be able to spend a great deal of their energy thinking about being mindful of the Buddhist teachings. So there's a great potential in this country for people to study the Buddha Dharma and to practice it. So the question now is, before us, day by day, are we individually and together with others in groups, by supporting others and being supported by others, are we actually going to do these practices which were primarily carried out? The people who really took responsibility for it in Asia were called the monks.
[11:34]
Many lay people were very devoted, but they weren't considered to be the primary carriers But the question for you is, how much do you want to practice these practices? And how much of your life do you wish to give attention to these practices? practices which the Buddha then goes on to say, he says, monks, this is the direct path. I'd like to comment on this expression, this is the direct path. It's in Pali, which is similar to Sanskrit. It says, hekayana ayam bhikave margo. So, this, monks, is the direct path. Hekayana means the one path. And Maga, no, Ekayana means the one vehicle. And Mago is path.
[12:36]
So this month is the one vehicle path. And sometimes this here is translated as a direct path, but other people have translated it. If you look at other translations of the scripture, you'll find some people translated it. This is the only way. to this wonderful freedom. This is the only way some people translate it. Another translation is, this is the soul way. But another understanding of this term would be, this is the way, this is the one way which takes, which doesn't take any side roads. So it's... In other words, it's direct. It's not only way, but it is a direct way. Other translations to avoid this business about whether it's direct or only are, it's the marvelous method, or it's the wondrous way.
[13:40]
But anyway, it's being given all these different translations called extremely strong recommendations. It's either the only way or the direct way or the marvelous way. Take your choice. And this way is the four foundations of mindfulness. And then he says, what are the four? He says, hear monks, a monk, this is a monk that does this okay when you do this in some sense you're a monk because you're abiding contemplating or you're remaining focused on the body as a body this is the work of a monk to remain focused on the body as a body in and of itself that's monk's work do you want to do that work Some people want to be a monk but they don't want to do this work.
[14:45]
They come to monasteries and they think a monk is totally cool. Like Thelonious Monk. That wasn't really his name. But he thought Thelonious was a neat name and he thought monk was a nice thing. It's a nice word. It's related to one thing you're focusing. Monk. Do you want to focus on the body in and of itself as a body? Ardent, fully aware, mindful, having put away covetousness and grief for the world. And then it applies to the feelings, same thing to the feelings, same thing to the mind, and same things to these mental qualities. some of which should be abandoned and some of which should be developed. And then we go on to mindfulness of the body. The first topic is mindfulness of breathing, but it doesn't mean that that's the first one you necessarily do, because actually in one of the scriptures, the Buddha first trains the monks, first he trains them at like modern eating.
[16:04]
moderate housing, moderate clothing. Then when they're trained at that, then he trains them at understanding when they're walking, that they're walking. After they learn that, then he trains them at full awareness. Then after he trains them at full awareness, then he trains them at the four foundations of mindfulness. So there's different patterns in which these practices can be presented. This is not necessarily a linear order. You don't necessarily have to go to the breathing before you tune into your posture. And like I say, a lot of times it's better, first of all, to be fully aware when you're extending your limbs or contracting your limbs. Or when you go forward to come back. Or when you look away or towards. To be fully aware when you're sitting on the pot, when you're urinating, whatever. Which relates to my talk at Green Gorge last weekend when I was talking about
[17:08]
giving up privacy and flip it into that you're always ready to receive guests, to welcome guests. It doesn't mean that you invite people to come and watch you urinate. It's just that when you urinate, you urinate fully aware. And when you're urinating fully aware, if somebody comes into the toilet area, you're not afraid of them. And also, hopefully you're not proud either. I'm doing this fully aware. Wow, I hope to see that. Look at that. It's not that you're proud, hopefully. This is another problem, getting proud of this. Actually, one great Buddhist teacher was converted to Buddhism when he saw a monk urinating. The way that person was urinating was totally and so inspiring he gave up his attachment to the word.
[18:13]
So being fully aware when you brush your teeth, when you eat, when you sleep, when you deprecate all day long, being fully aware each thing you do. So that full awareness makes you do it with a dignity. And dignity means not that you think you're dignified, because thinking that you're dignified actually undercuts your full awareness. You're just fully aware of extending your arm, purely. fully aware of extending your arm. And being that aware, you have dignity. Dignity is the way you appear to others that inspire them to respect you. It's not that you think you're dignified. You act in the way that people say, that's like a cool way to extend the arm. That's a cool way of sitting down. That's a cool way of standing up. What is it about the way she sits down? I guess it's like she's totally, like, just fully aware and present when she sits down.
[19:16]
It's just really, I would like to do that too. When you practice these ways, this is called, in your first start, first phase, establishing the frame for your mindfulness, every body posture. And then, of course, now we have the breathing. Breathing is a bodily function, which now we look at. And in this thing, we'll see the three stages. So first of all, how does a monk, how monks does a monk abide contemplating body as body? Here, a monk gone to the forest or a foot of a tree or into an empty room, sits down, having folded her legs crosswise sets body upright. I don't know of an example where the Buddha, somebody said to Buddha, what if you can't cross your legs?
[20:22]
I don't know the example of that, but many Zen teachers have been asked that in the ancient times, and they say the important thing is not so much that the legs are crossed, but that the body is erect. Of course, when you're standing, your body isn't erect. I mean, your legs aren't crossed, usually. But the body's erect when standing, when sitting, and the body's erect really when lying down, too, and walking. So you have this erect posture, which means... which means... When you stand, you're fully aware of standing. When you sit, you're fully aware of sitting. When you walk, you're fully aware of walking. When you recline, you're fully aware of reclining. That's called erect reclining. To stand up but not be fully aware is not what we mean by erect posture. So you sit with your legs crossed or you sit in a chair fully aware of your sitting posture, in other words, erect and relaxed.
[21:28]
Then you establish mindfulness in front of you. Okay? Boom. Mindfulness. Oh, yeah, I'm meditating. Oh, yeah, I'm fully aware. I'm sitting, and so on. You establish it in front of you. It's kind of in front of you. Of course, it's great to do it behind you, too, and on both sides. But it starts in front, according to this instruction, and then it spreads all around you, so you're fully aware. Okay? Here you are. Boom. Fully aware. Boom. you're here then you happen to be breathing maybe ever mindful she breathes in mindful she breathes out big parentheses in and out are conceptual categories
[22:47]
that we are involved with. We can talk about this more later, but basically we do sometimes feel like we breathe in and out. It's possible to have different versions of when breathing in and when breathing outs happen. Some people have different ideas about it, and also where breathing in is happening, where breathing out is happening. There's a variety of ways to think about that. But whatever way you are thinking about it is the way The thing recommended here is not instructing you how to think about your breathing. He's basically saying, when you think you're breathing in, you're mindful, remember, pay attention to the fact that you think you're breathing in, which is the same as you're mindful of breathing in. If you don't think you're breathing in, what do you think you are doing with your breath? Whatever that is, be mindful of that. But right now I just took it, I had this experience, which I sincerely, you know, simply consider to be an inhale. Wasn't that difficult, but I was mindful of it.
[23:49]
Now I'm exhaling. Ever mindful he breathes in, mindful he breathes out. Breathing in long, he understands breathing in long. Breathing out long, he understands, I breathe out long. Breathing out in short, he understands, I breathe in short. Breathing out short, he understands, I breathe out short. Then this next part is a kind of training, a little bit extra. Instruction here, he trains thus, I shall experience the whole body at breath. Breathing in, I shall experience the whole body of breath. Or breathing in, I shall experience the breath with the whole body. Breathing out, I'll experience the whole body of breath. Or breathing out, I'll experience the breath with my whole body.
[24:54]
Like I said last week, I think they're both good trainings. Not full possible ways of training, this is just mentioned here. Sometimes they say, breathing in, I feel the air entering through the 84,000 pores of my body. Breathing out, I feel the air being exhaled through the 84,000 pores of my body. That's like an old teaching. In these days we don't usually think we have 80,000 pores. So you could say a billion pores if you want to. You could say all the pores. This is a way to train yourself in being mindful of the body. Sort of just train yourself that you will breathe in and out through all the pores of your body. I shall breathe in tranquilizing or calming the body formations.
[25:57]
I shall breathe out tranquilizing the body formations. And then it says, just as a skilled turner or his apprentice when making long turns understands I make a long turn, Or making a short turn understands I make a short turn, so too. And then just repeats, go back to the beginning. Breathing in long, the ego understands I breathe in long. Dot, dot, dot means go through the thing again. Round and round. Yes? Well, it's a synonym for calming. But it means to be relaxed and alert and flexible. So it means that you're saying to yourself, as I breathe out, as I breathe out, the body will become calm and relaxed and alert and flexible.
[27:07]
You think this while you're breathing out about your bodily formations and then the same for breathing in. Then it goes on to say, in this way, she abides contemplating the body as the body or the body in and of itself internally. So that just means your own. But also, if you're looking at someone else, do the same thing. This may require some attention to be able to notice whether they're breathing in or breathing out. But you can learn to do that. You can watch people. And you may be wrong, you know. They may be breathing out when you think they're breathing in and vice versa, but even if you've got them reversed, it doesn't matter that much because you're still watching the breathing process. I remember one of my first interviews with Zika, she said, the breathing seems rather natural.
[28:12]
We weren't talking much. He was just sitting and watching me, and he said, oh, your breathing seems rather natural. So he was contemplating my breathing in and breathing out. And then you can alternate between being aware of your own breathing process and being aware of others. This so far in this instruction, this is the part of the instruction, the first stage of establishing foundation. The second part comes next. The second stage comes next. Or else he abides contemplating the body in its arising factors, or he abides contemplating the body in its vanishing factors, or he abides contemplating the body in the arising and vanishing factors.
[29:15]
This is a short, I guess, three-sentence version, a three-phrase version for the next phase of the practice, which is the development of the foundation, the development of the establishment, which will be expanded later, but I just want you to see there's a second stage. Third stage is or, else, mindfulness, that there is a body is simply established in him to the extent for bare knowledge and mindfulness it's the third stitch and when you're that way with your body which is that way with your breath in other words mindfulness there is a body or mindfulness, there is breath, just to the extent for bare knowledge and mindfulness.
[30:24]
When there's that kind of awareness of the body and breath, you have reached the third stage in the practice. And then it says, and you abide independent, not clinging to anything in the world. So this is basically, you know, you've achieved the path of liberation at that first stage, which, again, I'll expand on it. This third stage... basically is what we typically, is the kind of practice that's typically called Zen practice. Third stage is the third stage, and the third stage is beyond stages.
[31:27]
We're not really on the third stage in the third stage because you're just aware of the body, just enough to be aware of the body and know more like good body, bad body, long body, short body, third stage body, first stage body. In the third stage, you're not in the second stage, first stage or third stage. You're in some sense before and after any stages. So the third stage is the level at which Zen practice is typically, you know, archetypally pitched. It's the stage, the third stage is the stage of no stage. Person of no rank is the third stage. I also had this kind of like, what I call it, this slogan that developed in the process of my practicing, which was stay close and do nothing.
[32:29]
This third stage, at the third stage, you can actually stay close and do nothing. You can be with people and not do anything and actually have no clinging. No clinging. Be intimate with no clinging. But this presentation shows that it's not so easy to stay close and do nothing. Like most people, like physical care, used to say, we say that our practice is just to sit, but it's not so easy just to sit. It takes quite a bit of training to understand what it means to just sit. In other words, to sit and don't do anything. Don't you think, oh, I'll just sit. Well, that's not just sit. Well, I'll just do the opposite of just sit. I'll do no sit. It's like you can't think yourself into this thing.
[33:29]
It takes quite a bit of training to get to the place where you're actually not doing anything. Again, that story... One of our ancestors in our lineage, sort of, who set kind of the prototype of this type of practice, he was sitting in meditation, and his teacher said to him, what are you doing? He said, I'm not doing anything at all. His teacher said, then, are you idly sitting? He said, if I was idly sitting, I would be doing something. The teacher said, you say you're not doing anything at all. What is it that you're not doing? And he said, even the 10,000 sages don't know. They just know enough just to barely know there's a body or breath. That's the third stage. The first stage, I think we have to work on first.
[34:32]
So, and that's what I was going to actually say earlier, and I kind of thought of Bernard when I wrote this. The first stage of establishing mindfulness or setting the foundation for mindfulness or setting a frame for the mindfulness is kind of like framing a house. You know, just kind of, after you frame the house, the house is kind of there, you know. It's not there very much to it, but it's kind of like framed. So the first one is to establish a frame for this practice. So you can, maybe you can see that this instruction up to the first or, the instruction in scripture is set to frame. If you can actually be ardent and alert and mindful about, for example, your posture or your breathing, if you can remain focused on the body as the body, so remain focused
[36:08]
is played out as remain focused means remember to contemplate the body if you if anything else happens you know remember that it's the body that you're contemplating the body is the frame so other things may happen other phenomena besides the body may happen but you don't forget even though they happen that you're being mindful of the body you may reach for a cup of tea but you remember as you reach a good cup of tea that you're fully aware of extending your arm to reach the cup of tea and it doesn't say in the scripture but as you grip The teacup, you're fully aware of gripping the teacup. You understand that gripping the teacup is happening. As you lift the teacup, you're fully aware of lifting the teacup.
[37:13]
If you put your hand under the teacup to support it while you're gripping with the other hand, you're fully aware of that. You're also fully aware of the space under your armpits, whether it's spacious or congested, and so on. You remain focused on the body while you function in the world. And you're fully aware also means you're aware not just of extending the arm in general, but of the present moment of extending the arm so that right now the present moment of extending the arm is at the beginning of the extending the arm, and now I'm heading towards the middle of extending the arm, and now I'm sort of between middle and end of the extending arm, and now I've almost reached the full extent of extending, and now it's extended. So you're actually aware, extending the arm is quite a few moments of awareness in that process, and your ardent
[38:24]
about being with the present moment of movement of your arm. Ardent means that you're warm and enthusiastic about this, but also that you're really coming back to the present alert awareness. And if mindful, you just remember the program all the time. So again, you're working with these factors, you're remaining working with these factors, you're abiding and contemplating in this way, plus you've given up this greed and distress about the world in relationship to the body. Now, in order for that to actually be happening, at a particular moment when that's happening, You have basically abandoned the first category of mind objects listed under contemplation of mind objects, which is the five hindrances.
[39:45]
So under mind objects, or sometimes called mind qualities, Some of the things listed there are things that need to be dropped or abandoned in order to practice establishing mindfulness. However, we don't have to look at them yet because if you're able to practice this way, they have been abandoned for the moment. Just for the moment. Because in the next moment, you could forget to be focused on your body. You could be not focused on the present moment of it, but just sort of like, well, I'm aware of my body. Which body is it that you're aware of? Are you aware of your body just in general or the one right now? You can be aware of your body. I'm practicing mindfulness of the body, but not actually paying attention to the
[40:52]
present experience of it that makes sense that you could do that like i'm just generally checked into mindfulness of the body that's my basic program here but i don't happen to be paying attention to the current one kind of like i'm a baseball player but i'm not paying attention to the ball right now Remember this story about, there's a baseball player named Reggie Jackson. Did he play for the Giants? The A's? He also played for the Giants. He set a record for the Giants also. In the Yankees, yeah. Anyway, he played for a large amount of things. He's quite a good batter, I believe, right? Because he holds a lot of batting records for the Giants. Probably for the A's, too. Maybe the A's was the last team he played for. Is that right?
[41:53]
Started with the A's. Started with the A's. And then who did he play with next? And with the angels. Okay. So anyway, here's what he said. He said... He said... He didn't really say this. I'll just... Somebody said this. Perry Como said this. When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's amore. Reggie Jackson, huh? Dean Martin. Dean Martin? Well, you should know. But I think Reggie Jackson says, when I'm actually practicing the four foundations of mindfulness, particularly mindfulness of the body, When the ball comes, it looks like a pizza. And it's like impossible to miss it.
[43:00]
Can you imagine how a pizza came in? Even if it was coming fast, you would be like, just anywhere. Oh, it's cute. So you can be like, I'm a baseball batter and ball's coming, but you know, it's like, What ball, you know? They're supposed to be paying attention to it, but sometimes they just... Of course, they're generally like watching the ball, right? They have to watch the specific ball, and it has to be very specific. Can't be a little bit ahead or a little bit behind, because then they'll miss it. So these guys are really good at watching balls. They're good dadders. The pitchers are good at throwing them, but often not too good at watching them. They're really good at, like, throwing the ball, not generally speaking, but specifically this ball from these fingers into that air.
[44:06]
And after they let go of it, it's like, it's gone. So right there, when they have that ball, they're really good, but they're not, generally speaking, very good at watching the ball come at them from a pitcher with a bat in their hand. For whatever reasons, they don't tend to be good baddies. So how can you, like, be enthusiastic about catching the body of the moment and being mindful and remembering to do that and then actually... Be there for this body, this breath, this body, this breath, moment after moment. If you can do that, then these hindrances are not functioning. So what are the hindrances? Sensual desire, ill will, sloth and torpor, Next one could be translated as worry, anxiety, remorse, or restlessness.
[45:10]
And last one's doubt. First one's sensual desire. Second one's ill will. Third one is couple, sloth and torpor. Next one is worry, remorse, anxiety, and restlessness. Fifth one is doubt. Those things, when they function, or one of them is functioning, they will cut into hardness, mindfulness, the giving up greed and distress and the remaining focus. They'll cut into that. When you're that way, they're dropped. When they're not dropped, they're not that way. but when you're that way for a moment they're dropped for a moment and when you're that way for another moment they're dropped for a moment and when you're not that way you can probably find one of them is functioning or perhaps usually not all of them are functioning because anxiety and remorse don't go so well with sloth and torpor
[46:33]
They kind of disturb the sloth, you know. It doesn't go as well with worrying. So some people, like, are pretty good at worrying, and they're really into it, and they're like, because of that, they're not very slothful. They're like... Well, it's nice that they're not slothful. That's the good. The bad news is they're worried, they're restless, so it's hard for them to like, really like, pay attention to what's happening, period. And of course doubt means, I think doubt in this case is doubt that would be really a good idea to remain focused on the body. As the body, in and of itself, doubt that would be a good idea to Let go of greed and distress about the world in relationship to, for example, your bodily experience.
[47:43]
Doubt that. Doubt that's a good idea. Of course, sloth and twelfth will make it hard. Mindful, yeah. Mindful. Yeah, that sounds good. Cool. Whatever, man. You know, that kind of thing. But maybe not even that. Maybe not even, like, what are we... Maybe not even saying, what is the practice of doing? Because that's not so bad. Because you're starting to come out of the sloth. Oh, yeah, we're practicing meditation, right? You're starting to come out of it. You're a little bit of mindfulness. Sloth and torpor get to be at a point where you don't even remember to think about what it is that you're trying to remember. That can happen, right? So that's a hindrance to this practice, which means it's a hindrance to wisdom.
[48:43]
Sensual desire, the word sensual is good because it's not sexual, although sexual could fall under sensual. It's like, you know, just like, you know, Seeing, like Lynn brought this thing up last week, what if you hear a sound or see a color? So, if you're practicing foundation and mindfulness of the body, the frame is not colored at this point. We're talking about establishing the frame. And we mean the frame, the body, and the breathing, the posture, the movements of the body. This is the frame. The frame is not colors and sounds and so on. Even though the body has colors and sounds, you're using the frame of the body rather than getting into what color it is. However, you will see a color of your body, just like you'll see the color of the leaves and the color of the sky, and you hear the sound of the voice.
[49:47]
You hear these things either directly about the body or around the body. So sensual desire is just basically wanting more color or something, or wanting, you know, like those kids who were making a lot of vocal utterances during meditation, wanting them to be making different utterances, or wanting them to continue making the utterances that they are making. Because in some ways, some people might have, like their parents probably think, what in love with utterances they're making? You know? That one little girl was like, So dramatic. Every moment was life and death to her. Hello? She was really exercising her vocal function. She was having a very dramatic time. She probably still is, unless she's collapsed right now.
[50:50]
You could appreciate that and be very attached to that, her being able to do that. So it's the desire for more of it or that kind of way of relating to the stuff will undermine your attention to this brain. So either your own color or sound of your own body or taste of your own body or smell of your own body or whatever. also other bodies, other physical objects, these are physical things, sensual, sensual, sensual things, to desire, to want to get something that's more than what's being given, basically. It's related back to the other thing of giving up lust for the world, or greed for the world. So, if you
[51:54]
So if you look over under, if you're having trouble with this one, if you look over under the heading of mindfulness of contemplation of mental objects, you'll notice that all it says to do is, if you notice that there's sensual desire, if there's sensual desire, you understand there's sensual desire. If there's sensual desire, you understand there's sensual desire. It doesn't say... It doesn't say, get rid of the sensual desire. It says, if there is sensual desire, she understands there's sensual desire. Now, if there is sensual desire, you have not abandoned sensual desire because it's there. And it's somewhat making you a little wobbly with your meditation on your body to be sensual desire for another body or for your body
[52:56]
You know, for example, if it was a textual thing, if you had, like, finally got a really good seat, meditation seat, like, whoa, finally some comfort here, yay, whoa, you know. You could get into that. And then even though it's perfectly fine to have a comfortable sensation on your body from your sitting position, it's fine. That's not a problem. Matter of fact, that will be the next foundation, right? The feeling. But anyway, the desire, the whole, you know, more of that, don't lose that. That's not really the foundation of mindfulness in the body. And as you'll see, when you get over to feelings, it won't be appropriate there either. So the central desire will also undermine your awareness of when it's a pleasant sensation, You understand it's a pleasant sensation.
[53:58]
And you're ardent about that. You're mindful. And you're alert. You're doing the present positive sensation. Not wondering how, gee, it's been going on for a while. No. I wonder how long it lasts. No. That's central desire. Keeping track of the number of moments that this pleasant sensation has been going on. and being concerned for that, that sensual desire could also be worry. Worry and sensual desire go together pretty nicely actually. And of course doubt, that you shouldn't, not shouldn't, but doubt that it would be good just to simply be mindful of sensual desires. So it says there, when that arises, when there is the sensual desire, she's aware of the essential desire. When there's not central desire, she's aware that there's not. However, when you're not, you don't have to spend too much time being aware that you're not.
[55:08]
It's not a big deal. When you've abandoned these things, you don't put a lot of effort into being aware that they've been abandoned. And also, abandon is slightly different from just not happening. In other words, if you don't have doubt, it's similar to but not identical to have abandoning it. Abandoning it usually comes from being aware that there is and isn't for a while. See the difference? Like sometimes there isn't doubt about this practice. Sometimes you hear about things, that's cool. But you haven't really abandoned doubt. It just isn't happening at that time. But then when it does happen, and then even when it happens, you just say, oh, now I understand there's doubt. And then when the doubt goes away, you say, oh, now I understand the doubt went away. That actually leads to abandoning the doubt more than just that it's not there for the moment.
[56:17]
Because you're exercising awareness mindfulness of when the doubt arises. In the same way, ill will it will make you quite unstable in this practice. But if there is sloth, this is pretty difficult though. When slothful, it's quite difficult to be mind to understand when you're slothful that you're slothful. It's hard, but it's not impossible. A lot of Zen students actually have a big problem with being sleepy and they are aware of being sleepy and they also have, they feel a lot of pain when they're meditating and feeling torpor. Just going to sleep is okay, but to be awake and feel torpor is quite uncomfortable to a lot of meditators. Some people find torpor more uncomfortable than restlessness. Some other people find torpor not that bad and restlessness is really painful for them.
[57:22]
But whatever your style, or if you have both styles, and both of them are painful, the thing is, this is saying, when you feel torpor, you understand there's torpor. When you feel slaw, you understand there's slaw. When you feel restless, you understand there's restless. That's the mindfulness of those factors. Mindfulness of those factors sets up the condition for them to be abandoned. Yeah. No, not always, but there is, however, always conception. So there can be an image of slothfulness, even though you don't say slothful. So you could also be aware of, you know, an image of slothfulness, like you could say.
[58:25]
heard this wonderful expression for who is it for it was for some politician that they called a doe face which means you know you could his face could be modified by circumstances you know it's usually pushed around but anyway you could have this picture of yourself as kind of a mushy, kind of soggy, blurry. You could have that kind of sense of yourself. And you might not say slothful, but you would be really aware of that image. I sometimes have this image in certain phases of meditation where you get calm, but to get too calm, I often have the image of them. It's called a black bottom cupcake. Is that what they're called? Huh? Is that what they're called? They were popular a few centuries ago. The puppets that have chocolate on the inside, and then when they cook them, the chocolate kind of caves in.
[59:33]
So they're kind of like dirt. They have this kind of like something molten chocolate center. So it kind of makes you look at it. So anyway, it could be an image. It doesn't have to be the word slothful. If you're devoted to this practice and you doubt that it's a good practice, and therefore you don't practice it, even though you're sitting there trying to practice it. If you don't go sitting down and trying to meditate, then in some sense your doubt is not really relevant.
[60:40]
You doubt it so much you don't even think about it. So a lot of people have doubt about Zen Buddhism, but it's not really an issue in their life because they have no interest whatsoever. But actually that's quite similar to that they doubt that it would be a good idea. Some people never heard of it, but they don't have doubt about it. But some people hear about Zen Buddhism and they say, nah, not interesting. I don't think that would be worth my time. In other words, they doubt that that would be a good use of their life energy. But if they go to a monastery, a Zen monastery, and then they sit in meditation because they thought it was a good idea, and then they don't practice the practice, which they've now rearranged their whole life to do, then doubt kind of goes, this is like stupid. You know, this is a major waste of my time here to be in this place, and yet I got dinner. As a matter of fact, there's no transportation out of this place for weeks.
[61:43]
I'm stuck. So it isn't exactly that you go around looking for the doubt. The doubt becomes actually, it's there. But if you don't notice it, under those circumstances, then you're like, basically you're just simply unsuccessful at what you're trying to do. Part of you is setting it up to be in a meditation situation, because you're a monk. You're somebody who wants to do the meditation. And you want to do the meditation which will be the marvelous method for becoming free of suffering and being benefit to all beings. This is what you're up for. Now you're sitting there and you notice, but it ain't happening. I'm just like, I'm like into like greed for the world or distress for the world. That's what's happening, really. And you notice that, that you're just sitting, you're worried, you're slothful, you're... Oh, so you notice those things.
[62:50]
And you notice that you doubt also. If you don't notice these hindrances or these weak points in your mind that are undermining your attention to what's going on in the development of concentration and wisdom, if you don't notice them, then you're just going to be kind of like spinning your wheels, that's all. So somehow we need to be aware of the facts of our mind. some of the facts of our mind are not the basic assignment in terms of the frame. The frame is not the frame, is not slaw. It's not the frame. The frame is not doubt. The frame is not recklessness. The frame is not worry. The frame is not anxiety. The frame is not sensual desire. The frame is the body. Because meditators, both enlightened and unenlightened, have bodies.
[63:51]
Right? Both enlightened and enlightened eat lunch. Both enlightened and unenlightened breathe. So, it's the body that's the frame, first of all. This anxiety and stuff is not the frame. The anxiety is stuff which, if that's happening for you, then you can't pay attention to the frame to get established. You can't set the frame, but you can set it, but then it gets knocked out again. Because you're often to worry and doubt. Or you're Or because you doubt, you're worried. Or because you doubt, you want to take a nap in the middle of your meditation, which is not because you're actually tired. It's because you're just kind of like being slothful. So if those things arise and you take note of the fact that they've arisen, then you're doing... kind of attention which will lead to you actually seeing that they're abandoned.
[65:00]
And when you see they're abandoned, you'll notice that you're like, excuse the expression, you're like in the, you're in that place, you know, where the ball's like a pizza pie. It's like you're in this place where it's like, just like, your body's like, just like, hello. Isn't it easy to pay attention now? It's like your breath is like, you know, just really going in and out, you know, you don't have to like really work at it. You're really there. Because these hinges have been dropped. But they get dropped for most people by being mindful when they're there. Being mindful where they're there. So the frame is not those things. Those things are another category. These things are not given to you as your frame. The things which are going on, which are not the frame, which you're not trying to remember to be slothful or remember to worry. You're trying to remember also not to not worry and also not to not be slothful.
[66:04]
You're trying to simply be remembered of when you're standing your arm, fully aware. When you notice that there's more or less confidence that that's a good thing. you notice that when you don't do it, it has something to do with it that you don't think is really that good idea. But sometimes, under some circumstances, you do think that moving this arm a certain way is very, very important, and you do give it your full attention. Because sometimes, like that, you know, when you know that being fully aware of the movement of the body is extremely important. So you have no doubt that full awareness of the bodily movements is where you're at. That's definitely what you want to do. Your life or the life of someone you love depends on it and you have no question about it.
[67:08]
So, no doubt. However, that's not the whole story because there might be no doubt like your restlessness or anxiety or worry. So again, if the movement of your hands is a life and death matter, no doubt, probably, but there may be worry, and the worry will undermine your total presence with the movement. Like your child's welfare, dependent on you inserting a needle into their skin at just the right place, and you were worried you would not be fully aware Your feet are somewhat disturbed by that worry. Or, of course, you have no doubt, but there's still a little bit of torpor, you know, from whatever conditions in the past. So you really think it's important to pay attention, but there's some torpor. If you're aware of the torpor, you can adjust for it, you know, and come out of the torpor and be present for this movement.
[68:10]
And then again, you may be convinced this is important, but central desire can arise and knock you away from this important thing, right? Or it will. Suddenly you're doing something that's very important, you know it's important, you have no doubt, you're not agitated, you're not slothful, but you want to hurt somebody. So that knocks you off. So all these different factors can destabilize your mindfulness. But if you take away all of them but doubt, doubt's sufficient to undermine it. But if there's not doubt, any one of those can somewhat make it waver. In some ways, doubt's the worst. Because doubt means you're not even going to try. But the other ones, if you don't have doubt, the other ones, even though you want to do it, the other ones are going to destabilize or undermine your presence. They're going to undermine your alertness, your mindfulness, your heart, or your full awareness.
[69:12]
So once again, that category is not, it is a frame, but it's not a frame in terms of when you're doing the body, it's not a frame. So actually, I just said something which wasn't really quite right when I said worry is not a frame. Actually, worry is a frame. When you're doing mindfulness of the fourth category, then worry is a frame. Thoughtfulness is a frame. Doubt is a friend. So you actually could, although I'm starting with this mindfulness of the body here, you could actually go over and practice mindfulness of the fourth category and start working on these hindrances directly and make them your focus. And notice there that it might be difficult to focus on doubt if there's sensual desire. It might be difficult to be aware of sensual desire if you doubt that that would be good. Or it might be hard to be aware of a sensual desire, feel will, and so on.
[70:17]
So you could have to go over and start practicing that, feel up to it. And so again, I'm saying we're still, I feel, we're working on the first phase, not the second phase, but where we start to look at the causal processes, vulnerable. in relationship to the body, the breath, the feelings, the mind, or these other categories. But you look a little bit like it's sinking in, which I think is really great. I'm very ardent about this, yes? I noticed that there's three stages. First of all, I'm establishing a . It's kind of like you have to have somebody to, you've got to have somebody to solve and make your client to practice. And then the second one, they develop
[71:19]
and federal practice, they sort of go from a solid to a sort of a last solid, sort of, and not go at the moment of four stages, where it sort of becomes more and more subtle, but kind of like that, so we get a really big, you know, when everything else is very subtle. That's why. Yeah, and another thing I felt which for those of you who took class on the three levels of wisdom, because I think these three stages I talk about are kind of like the wisdom that comes from study or hearing or learning, the wisdom that comes from contemplation, and the wisdom that comes from meditation. Another association here that withdraw. But I'm glad it stopped raining so we don't have to go home in a storm. So please pick one or more of these foundations and work on establishing it.
[72:22]
See if you can establish it the way it's talked about up to the place where it is, or they contemplate the rising and the season. Go up to that point with the body, the postures, the breathing, or try it in the feelings, or try it in the mind states. Or try it on the fourth one. But I would suggest actually, probably, the only one of the fourth ones I would suggest you do at this point would be the first category. And if you try the other categories, you haven't had enough instruction yet to do that. The first one's about things actually to abandon, which will undermine the practice of the first three. When you get better at the practice of the first three, plus abandoning those quiet hindrances, then we'll be ready to study some of those other categories and the fourth categories. So don't try the other categories under the fourth heading, I would suggest.
[73:24]
But any of those first three and those various varieties or first category under mind objects, you can start focusing on. It could be okay. Assuming you don't eat too much. Or get greedy about Oreo or something. Good night.
[73:54]
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