tuning in being upright, tuning in non-thinking. If a person were to be interested in practicing concentration, for example, a concentration on the process of breathing. And their psychophysical processes were involved in such a concentration on the breathing. it would be possible, I feel, that in the midst of such an effort, such a kind of thinking, such a kind of thinking, thinking directed towards the breath, thinking along the lines of concentrating on the breath, in the midst of such thinking, there can be non-thinking.

[01:34]

if one's mind was not inclined towards concentration on anything in particular, the normal function of the mind is that it is always one-pointedly concentrated on whatever is the object of awareness. The normal functioning of the mind, consciousness, is that it is in the moment, in the moment of experience it is concentrated one pointedly on the object of experience, on the object of consciousness. This is the normal functioning of mind. Concentration is an omnipresent mental factor that accompanies mind consciousness. However, if one's thinking is not inclined towards, if one does not intend to cultivate concentration on, for example, the breath or posture, then the mind might be simply concentrated in each moment on a basically rapidly changing field of objects.

[03:09]

So you are aware of the breath, you are aware of posture, You're aware of Eric's face. You're aware of Greg's face. You're aware of Justin's face. You're aware of Jennifer's face. You're aware of my voice. You're aware of Lee turning around to look at Jennifer. You're aware of Lee's coughing, the other Lee. So the mind... is aware of a variety of objects, and each object is the object of concentration of the mind. But many people do not trust, do not have a confidence, do not feel concentrated if the mind jumps from object to object, which it normally does. So they want to practice concentration to get

[04:10]

cozy with, to get intimate with, to develop confidence that they are concentrated. And in fact, if you do exercises like that, it often does develop a sense of concentration. However, some people who try to do that get more and more upset and it undermines their sense of concentration. Either they think they're fairly concentrated or the fact of being in concentration isn't much of an issue to them until they start practicing concentration. And then they start thinking that they're really distracted and get really depressed. And if you make sure you pour a little breath in the process, sometimes it gets really to be a mess. Especially if you should happen to meditate on your heart, it can be quite upsetting. Your heartbeat. So anyway, but sometimes people are successful at concentration practices. But once again, just as I said, as I suggested, that in the midst of doing an intentional concentration practice, there can be non-thinking.

[05:16]

There can also be non-thinking without the intentional concentration practice, and there can also be non-thinking in the midst of trying to do a concentration practice and being dramatically unsuccessful. In other words, being very hysterical. However, of course, it is, in some sense, easier again to appreciate non-thinking when you're quiet and calm. So that's one of the reasons why we practice the formal ceremony of sitting meditation, is that for some people, that ceremony helps them appreciate not only the concentrated quality of the mind, but also to appreciate... the most important thing, and that is the practice of non-thinking. Non-thinking opens the door to the realization of wisdom and therefore the spontaneous emergence of great compassion.

[06:25]

Concentration might be a situation where one would be given access to realization of dependent core arising. It is possible. It is possible. Also, practice in giving. You can, in the practice of giving and all the other paramitas, you can enter into awareness of the pinnacle of rising. You can enter into wisdom through other means. But concentration actually is harder than the mode of non-thinking. The mode of non-thinking is the direct door to wisdom. Concentration practice sometimes is helpful and sometimes it is unhelpful. Sometimes, as I mentioned, there's dangers about it.

[07:32]

It can actually distract you from non-thinking, make it harder for you to deepen your sense of non-thinking. Sometimes it helps. And that's another reason why we need to practice with others because sometimes concentration is really good for people and sometimes it's not. By concentration I mean developing, you're deepening your sense of your concentration. Once again, I propose to you that the mind is, when it's normally functioning, it is concentrated. Concentration is an omnipresent quality of consciousness. The effort to develop, the effort to learn about non-thinking and the effort to reflect upon the meaning of the instructions in non-thinking and the effort to practice non-thinking and the effort to have your thinking be like non-thinking are our efforts.

[08:48]

the effort to go to the Zendo and to sit in upright posture and to keep your eyes open and to make the most beautiful Buddha-like posture you can make. In fact, all that effort is the effort of the ceremony of Zazen. It's a ceremony. It's a ritual. It's a traditional ritual manner of conducting one's body and mind. It's not itself non-thinking, and it also is not itself thinking of the unthinkable. It is not itself the mind of Buddha, but it is a gesture towards, it is an act of devotion to non-thinking of the Buddha and the realization of the mind which is intimate with and actually has reached the state of dependent co-arising, a mind which has realized the insubstantiality of all phenomena, a mind which is totally convinced that everything dependently co-arises and lacks inherent existence.

[10:15]

and a mind that through that conviction has completely settled into that state of reality. And from that mind, great compassion is a natural flowering. Like what's his name? Hakuin's disciple Tore Zenji said, facing the wall. In the back, a spring flower opens. So, doing the ceremony of zazen and finally settling into and becoming intimate with reality, ultimate reality, which is dependent core arising and emptiness, the spring flower opens, the flower of compassion blooms from our body and mind, when our body and mind is intimate with ultimate reality.

[11:26]

Of course it always is intimate, more or less, and the less part is that we actively ignore it. fight it, cling to our ideas of what it is, or rather cling to the idea, or cling to the belief, or cling to the understanding that our ideas are reality. Such clinging interferes with intimacy with an ungraspable reality, but an attainable reality. And the only reason why it's attainable is because it's already what's happening. We could never, you know, make it happen or get it. It's a little bit too fast for that. But if we stop running away, it naturally asserts itself. And the word assert, by the way, means to... the root of it means to bind or join to oneself.

[12:32]

It means to claim. proclaim it's interesting that the ancient now obsolete meaning of assert is to set free so if we stop running away from the truth by letting go of our idea of truth which is another word for non-thinking is to let go of our idea of truth and not make a new nest practicing non-thinking in that way to the best of our ability, we gradually start running away from the reality which is always right near us. And then reality asserts itself through everything that we are. Then we are just simply the manifestation of reality. And this training that we go through and the ceremonies that we do

[13:38]

are very important and can be very useful, but we should be flexible about them because they are not it. They aren't the thing we're trying to do, trying to reach, trying to realize, but they're a way for us to be devoted and to express faith so that the real zazen of the Buddha can arrive, can be given to us. So again, as I mentioned, by faithful devotion to the form of the ceremony or faithful devotion to anything, actually, in that mode of faith, we can receive the gift of the grace of reality. And so that's part of what I know the process of ceremony is about, is that the meaning or the point of the ceremony is the realization of great compassion. But the ceremony itself is not, I mean, but the great compassion is not in the forms of the ceremony.

[14:46]

And many Zen students have criticized the ceremony justly by saying, yeah, but this, you know, look at these people doing the ceremony, that doesn't seem like great compassion to me. And sometimes when you see Zen students doing the ceremony of Zazen, it doesn't look like great compassion, it doesn't feel like great compassion, it doesn't seem to be proving great compassion. But sometimes when you see Zen students doing the ceremony of Zazen, it does prove great compassion. Of course, these are very inspiring and encouraging moments when the performance of the ceremony by a human being verifies, is evidence, concrete evidence for great compassion. It can be evidence, but it also can be not evidence. It can be It cannot prove great compassion. It cannot prove bodhi. It cannot be good evidence for it, but other times it can. What makes the difference?

[15:50]

Well, in some sense, just grace. And grace comes or doesn't. But if you do the ceremony and holding to the ceremony, if you grip the ceremony and think that the ceremony is reality, then you block the grace. So somehow we have to wholeheartedly do the ceremony without gripping it. Put our whole heart into something that we can't control or get. With that spirit of non-thinking in the middle of the ceremony of zazen, just like that spirit of non-thinking in the practice of concentration, that devotion to the Buddha's teaching receives the gift. a bodhi. The devotion is not a controlling mechanism. It doesn't control the bodhi to come in. It doesn't even tune in the bodhi. It just becomes a channel for, just a little bit, I'll take questions, it becomes a channel for the reception.

[16:58]

And I like the, what do you call it, the story about the carved dragon, which I said, but I'll say it again. The ceremony is the carved dragon. And you know a story about the carved dragon? Does everybody know a story about the carved dragon? You don't, Allison? Well, there's a story about a carved dragon. Well, actually, there's a story about a guy who liked the carved dragons. A Chinese guy. And... He had scrolls of dragons. He had statues of dragons. His house was even shaped like a dragon. In China, they have some houses that are shaped like dragons. They have walls around the houses that are shaped like dragons. As I said before, China is the land of dragons. They just totally love dragons there. A dragon is the national whatever you want to call it of China. Heroin. National heroine, yeah.

[18:02]

Can't really call it a bird. Can't really call it a plane. Can't even call it Superman, but you can call it, I guess, the national heroine. So the dragon, this guy loved dragons, and one day a dragon, a real dragon, was flying by his dragon museum and thought, oh, this guy likes dragons. Maybe he'd like to meet a real dragon. So he came down, the dragon came down to... and came to the window of this man's house. The man saw the dragon and was so frightened he fainted. And so then Dogen Zenji says, in Fukan Zazengi, he says, you know, don't be, does he say, don't be suspicious of the true dragon? But at Suzuki, he translated it a little different. He said, don't be curious about the true dragon. Or another translation would be don't doubt the true dragon.

[19:06]

So don't doubt, don't be curious, and don't be suspicious of the true dragon. Don't be suspicious of thinking of the unthinkable. Don't be suspicious of the realization, the realization of reality. Don't be suspicious of complete, perfect wisdom and great compassion. Don't be suspicious. Don't be curious either. Don't doubt. So what do you do? So then in the Zazen Shin, Dogen Zenji again says, you know, don't just love the carved dragon. Don't just love the carved dragon. In other words, don't just love the ceremony of Zazen. Don't just love the monastic forms. Don't just love Buddhist scriptures. Don't just love your children and your grandchildren. He didn't say not to love those things.

[20:07]

He said, don't just love them. Move on. Move on to love of the true dragon. And he says, love the true dragon. I don't know what the Chinese character is, but anyway, love the dragon. Don't be suspicious of the dragon. Love Bodhi. Love great compassion. But then he says something else which I think is really nice. He says, do not esteem or despise the near. The near means what? The carved dragon. Don't esteem or despise the ceremony of Zazen. Don't esteem or despise your human efforts to practice concentration. Do not esteem or despise your human efforts to enact carefully and wholeheartedly, with no attachment, the forms of zazen.

[21:11]

Don't esteem or despise that. Rather, become adept, become proficient and skillful at the carved dragon. And I would say rather love the carved dragon. When you love something, you don't esteem or despise it. That's not love. Love is somewhere free of value. Love is more like intimacy and adeptness at the art. Like some people really like this and really hate that. they really like something, but they don't really become intimate with it.

[22:13]

Or they really hate something and they don't become intimate with it either, even though they're hung up on it. So don't esteem or despise the forms, the rituals, the ceremonies of zazen, but rather become adept at it, rather love it. Then he says, don't esteem or despise the true dragon, When I first read that, I thought, that's so surprising. You don't even esteem the Bodhi? You don't even esteem the Dharmagate of Repose and Bliss? No, you don't esteem it and you don't despise it. What do you do? You become adept at it. You love it. So, the ceremony is practiced that way. And And the ceremony is something we can do. We can do the ceremony. The ceremony occurs in the world of karma.

[23:15]

So you can do the ceremony of zazen. As a matter of fact, you know, the word karma... was the word that they used before Buddha for the way of performing the ceremonies in the Hindu religion. The Hindu priest, the Brahmin priest, the karma was the practice of trying to do the ceremony properly. It's the action of doing the ceremony correctly. We want to do the karma, we want to do the ceremony properly, wholeheartedly, carefully, according to the traditional form, exactly. That's the karma we can do. That's the carved dragon.

[24:19]

And we do that again, once again, without esteeming or despising this precise, careful and traditional way. And by avoiding esteeming and despising, we love the karma of the ceremony. We lovingly do the ceremony. And again, the meaning of the ceremony is not in the ceremony. The meaning of the ceremony comes to us, is given to us. The real dragon comes out of the sky to meet us when we do the ceremony. We're down here on the ground carving our little dragon, but up in the sky, the real dragon's swirling around, creating wind and rain in perfect harmony with our careful, devoted efforts. And if we're not careful and we're not doing it, the dragon's up there anyway.

[25:24]

But the resonance is not realized. The meaning of Zazen, the real dragon, comes to meet our effort in performing the ceremony of the carved dragon. They work together. The medium of devotedly carving the dragon is is where the gift arrives to the person. And as I mentioned before, and it says in that article, the Chinese character for ceremony is composed of two characters. One character is meaning, or righteousness, and the other character is person.

[26:27]

Ceremony is a character which brings the person and the meaning together. So by devoting yourself to the ceremony, the meaning comes to meet you. Okay? The meaning is not a karmic thing. The ceremony is. But the non-karmic and the karmic worlds become integrated through the ceremony. And one other thing about practicing the ceremony with detachment and with non-thinking is that we understand when we do the ceremony that we do not do the ceremony alone. Now, we do not do the ceremony alone.

[27:31]

We do the ceremony with many or all sentient beings. we practice with our eyes open to remember we're doing it not by ourself. Okay? That's another part of the ceremony is to do it together with the Sangha. And there is in this ceremony, there is in the performance of the ceremony, the opportunity for... personal liberation and exaltation. In this ceremony, the person may become liberated, but by doing it in a group, there is exaltation. The point is not really that this person practicing zazen is liberated. The point is that the whole group is exalted into ultimate reality and great compassion.

[28:38]

which is another dimension of the form of the ceremony. So as I've said before, in Soto Zen, we do not practice alone. Suzuki Roshi said, our way is group practice. And this sort of flies in the face of, apparently, of some traditions that look like the practitioners practice alone. And there are stories of Zen priests, great Zen priests, who are meditating out in the forest alone, But Dogen Zenji says those great teachers, those great monks who were practicing out in the forest alone, they had finished their multi-decade training program in the Sangha and were just waiting in the forest for the mobs to come. And the mobs did come. It wasn't even a vacation. It was just being coy. They just sit under the pine trees and then the monks came, other monks came, and then gradually there was this big mess again called the Sangha.

[29:43]

Then they had to, you know, figure out meals and stuff. So that's Dogen's understanding, that's Ejo's understanding. We don't practice alone, we practice together. And if you see a great master practicing by himself, Shakyamuni Buddha was not alone out there in the forest. he was inundated with demons. And then when the demons ran away, he was inundated with bodhisattvas. And when the bodhisattvas went away, he was inundated with regular sentient beings. And then he was inundated with monks. And now he's inundated with us. So that's my story. And now we can have... Do you like? Many, many, many, many questions. And the first question was from Sunchild. And then we have Lee, and we have Greg, and we have Ray, and we have Aaron. Who else? Is that it?

[30:46]

Janine? Did you have your hand raised, Janine? Did you have your hand raised, Janine? Janine? Did you have your hand raised? Jeanette? No. Would you like to raise your hand? Okay. Sunchild? I just wanted to ask if we could open more windows. Yeah. Is that okay if I open these? Yeah. Okay, next was Lee. Okay, how did you put this? If you don't detest or the carb dragon or esteem it, is that how you put it? If you don't detest or esteem the carb dragon, yes. Then the true dragon comes down to visit, is that what you said? Am I... No, no. Well, you've got to do a little bit more than just not esteem into the test. You have to become, you have to love the carved dragon and become, you know, adept with the carved dragon. Because just avoiding esteeming and despising is part of our capacity.

[31:49]

We have the capacity to meet a situation without esteeming or despising. This is part of our capacity as a living being. It's one of our great skills called non-attachment. Okay? But some people can be kind of non-attached, like, well, I don't really esteem Bob. I don't really despise Bob. But are you totally devoted to Bob? Well, no. So many people can be totally devoted to something that they esteem. And actually, some people are totally devoted to things they despise. But what we need to be is to be totally devoted to something which we don't esteem or despise. That's the hard thing. So we have the capacity to be detached. to not get stuck in things, like don't get stuck in zazen, and yet totally devote ourselves to it. When you do that, the real dragon will come. No difference between what? No difference?

[32:51]

No, the difference is you, like you, actually you, could actually experience what it means to be, to be unattached and totally devoted. You could, like, come and tell me and say, guess what? I'm, like, I don't esteem or despise practice anymore, and I'm totally devoted to it, 100%. And I might say, prove it, and you might prove it. I might say, my God, this is fantastic. And both of us would be there, like, seeing this and understanding this, and, like, you know, we could see it. It would be the object of our sense perception. Okay? This is the carved dragon. But the real dragon, you and I, poor little things that we are, cannot see it. We cannot see how the whole sky turns into enlightenment. We can't see that. We can't see how beings all over the universe in the six realms, even the three lower realms, in hell and so on, are saved. We can't see that, Lee. But that happens. Can you intuit it?

[33:53]

No. Because intuition is a human capacity which can't embrace the totality of But you can realize it. You can prove it. You can prove it. Because things can happen that although, you know, although we see them, we cannot understand how they could happen. Like we cannot, sometimes we cannot understand certain forms of love. And they prove the inconceivable. But we can't figure, we can't see where this is coming from. And you can say with complete confidence that the entire sky turns to enlightenment. And you can prove it, even though you yourself can't see it. The Buddha can say this, realize it, be completely confident about it, but can't see it. You can realize what you can't see. What's the difference? You don't see the difference between something you can see and something you can't see? Oh. Well, like... You can be happy without being able to see it, without being able to grasp it.

[35:16]

You can realize the working of a process that you cannot see. Ultimate reality is not the object of sense perception, but it can be realized. And someone might say that actually if they can be unattached, you know, like dispassionate and totally devoted at the same time, you know, like be free of all the hang-ups of attachment and yet be totally passionate at the same time, be completely alive and passionate with no attachment, they say, that's good enough for me. But it turns out that it's possible to, in some sense, have more than that. And what's more than that? It's not just that you, Lee, are free of attachment and free of the misery of attachment, and you are totally devoted and passionate and alive. It's not just that, Lee. It's that everybody is helped. That's what's more. And you can't see how everybody's helped.

[36:22]

And what's the difference? The difference is that even though you don't see it, they are helped. That's the difference. And even, because you see, if they're not being, if you can't see that they're not being helped, the difference is between them being helped and not being helped. You can't see, we can't see beyond our, you know, limit of our understanding and vision. But what are we going to do about the things beyond there? We have to help them too. This is about helping the people that you can't see. And you can test it, and you can prove whether it's so. Because, in fact, if anybody questioned, you could show that you could be brought to anybody who thought that you didn't save them, or you didn't care about them, or you didn't love them. This person could be brought to you, or you could go to that person and check yourself out, and you would be confirmed. You would be justified.

[37:25]

You would be proved that you were free of your limited realization of your freedom and enlightenment. So that's the difference. Does that make sense? Do you see the difference? It doesn't look like... Did you get it? The difference is that it isn't just... What you can perceive is just what's happening around you. This practice of ultimate reality is beyond what you can see. So the good things that you realize in the realm you can see are the place where you realize what you can't see. You can't feel it, though, so... You can't feel that. Those things also count. That's also part of your happiness is the things you can feel. Okay? But that's still in the little circle. There's stuff beyond that, too. Stuff you can't feel. You can be confident of it. Okay, you can say you can feel it, but that feeling is not the object of a sense perception is what I'm saying. You say I can feel it, but you can't

[38:27]

You have no... You can be confident. Yeah, you can be confident. Right. You can be confident. But you can't see with your senses that it's so. But you can be confident and if called upon, you can prove it to the satisfaction of the caller. Okay? Let's see who is next. Greg? Two things. First, I don't understand the definition of exalted you're using. Exaltation. Well, like, one thing is to be free of suffering and the other is to become a god. One thing is to be free of suffering and the other is to become divine. Buddhism is not about becoming free of suffering only. It's about becoming wise and compassionate. So you could be free of suffering but still not helping other people.

[39:35]

There could be such a freedom, and there is such a freedom, where I'm okay. Well, great, congratulations. Exaltation is you're exalted, you're lifted up to Buddha's wisdom and Buddha's compassion. That's exaltation. So the group practice exalts the group, brings the group up to not just freedom from suffering for themselves, but to the great work of Buddha's wisdom and compassion. So Buddha was concerned for the suffering of other beings. That's all he cared about. But he didn't just want them to be free of suffering. He wanted them to attain Buddhahood like he did. He wanted them to be able to devote their lives to teaching Dharma like he did. He didn't just want to set them free from their own personal little trips and pains. He wanted them to be exalted too. And in the Lotus Sutra, when the Buddha speaks of the one great condition for the appearance of Buddhas in the world. He didn't say Buddhas appear by the desire to set people free from suffering.

[40:39]

They appear by the desire of helping people realize Buddha's wisdom, to open their eyes to it, to have it demonstrated, to awaken to it, and to enter it. That's what they're there for, according to the Lotus Sutra. Not just become free of suffering, Now, of course, you do get free of suffering, but something much more exalted than freedom of suffering happens. You get to do this work, this wisdom, compassion work. That's what the Buddhas want. And that's what the Buddhas are themselves. In other words, Buddhas want other people to be Buddhas and to help other people to be Buddhas, to help other people be Buddhas. That's exaltation. Okay? Okay, you're number three, Martha, okay? So, Rain, Aaron, and Martha, I think. And then Carrie. Yes? Rain? Okay, so I would say that you can, it could happen that you would have some realization of non-duality, namely Buddha's wisdom through jhana.

[42:00]

You could also have some realization of of non-duality through the practice of giving. You can get access to some realization of Buddha's teaching, which is just reality. He was pointing to reality. You can get some realization of the non-dual quality of reality through jhana, through enthusiasm. You can, like, enthuse yourself right into reality. Because enthusiasm means to be totally... you know, ensconced in God, to be full of God, like to be blown beyond yourself into the divine. Pardon? It might not be, but you still can get in. Okay? And by ethical observation, you could trip into it. And by patience, all the other paramitas could be accessed. Jhana could be accessed, but for the permanent reversal...

[43:01]

of the dualistic thought. We need wisdom. And wisdom does not come, and there's no evidence of it coming, the wisdom teaching does not come with the jhana teaching of the Hindus, as far as we know. Although the state they might reach is the same. But to permanently uproot it, you have to change the way you think so that you can come out of the jhana and go into the marketplaces. Now, maybe Advaita Vedanta is slipping over towards Buddhism, I don't know, but that's the point, is that you could have access through the jhanas, but it's just access, and you don't get the transformation of the being into total realization of this bodhi. That would be the difference. This bodhi, when you talk about it, it's a major... That's one of the main things because that's the main hang-up that we have.

[44:05]

But when you start to... That's the place we most resist it. So that's the place it first breaks loose. But once it breaks loose for that, then you see the dependable arising of everything. But the point of shifting from the way of not seeing the dependable arising of self but seeing the self as a substantial reality, that's the place we really hold. And when we let go of that... and start to see the dependent co-arisen self, then we see the dependent co-arisen other, we see the dependent co-arisen everything. So then we start to see, it starts to widen. But once again, this, if you look at the, if you look at this history of religion, you do not see this teaching of dependent co-arising before this guy named Shakyamuni. And Afterwards, some other people try to pick up on it a little bit, but without directly copying, if they could, they haven't got it. Nobody else has got it. So this is the particular teaching of Shakyamuni Buddha, is this dependable arising. There was no sign of it before. All the jhana practices, he didn't advance them at all.

[45:09]

It's this wisdom practice that's particular of Buddhism. And so that's the thing that transforms the beings so they don't slip back when they're not in a jhana state. They don't need to use jhana to go into reality. They actually change the way they're thinking. Okay, so now Eric's got his hand raised finally. Erin? Back to what you said about results as ceremony and devotion to that. I kind of had some aversion to that idea. Aversion to the idea of ceremony? And the devotional aspect. Yes? Because it seems sort of realistic in my mind and it seems like something outside of this. Outside of what? whatever this is, I mean, you know, just sitting, you know, it seems like... Outside of sitting? Yeah. You mean like sitting cross-legged? Is that what you mean? Yeah. So you're saying that when I use the... It's devotional to this higher power, and that's just what I... I definitely think that's why I have it.

[46:12]

No, it's actually, it's devoted to... It's devoted... You can be devoted to higher power, that's fine, but I was talking about devotion to the ceremony. That's not to the higher power. The ceremony is not the higher power. The ceremony is not lower power either. The ceremony is just something that you, as a living organism, has perceptual equipment. You can devote yourself to something which your sense equipment can sense, namely your body sitting cross-legged. So you have a problem being devoted to that form. Is that what you're saying? You feel a separation between you and the form. Okay, so normal Zen students... feel a separation between themselves and the forms of the ceremony.

[47:18]

That's a normal thing that they feel. Okay? And then they do the ceremony. Doing the ceremony is a little, a chip of devotion. If you do the ceremony, whether you like it or not, you've just devoted some of your energy to the ceremony. So, there's some problem in that, right? Yeah. No, I can do that. Oh, you can do that. It seems like that ultimate devotion or that kind of, you know, it seems to me that you're stressing a greater devotion. You did use the word grace. Yeah, I did use the word grace. But still, I don't know about a greater devotion. The devotion to the dualistic karmic activity, okay, you can be totally devoted to that. Now, you're talking about being devoted to The real zazen? Is that what bothers you? The greater zazen, the zazen which is not just what you're doing, but the saving of all beings, is that what bothers you?

[48:19]

I think it would be nice if this could get articulated, because I think people do have resistance, some resistance around this, which might distract you a little bit, if you could clarify. I think that the whole concept is slightly different than when I come into the zendo and I'm practicing this form that... My assumption is it'll lead, or it'll bring you into, or help you realize, perhaps self-realization or enlightenment or whatever, compared to something that was a ceremony, which is, I'm doing it, and it's, there's something else happening out here. I don't know. I don't know if anyone can help me with that. Something else. Maybe it's having a gaining idea around Sarzen. She's speaking in what you're talking about then. There's a danger of having some gaining idea when you do a ceremony. Well, but she sounded like, the way she put it before, she felt okay with that other kind of gaining idea, where she does that and gets some realization. She felt okay about that one. It sounds too much like a church. It sounds too much like a church to lead.

[49:24]

But anyway, I'm sorry if it sounds like a church. But that's the thing about it, is it sounds like a church. And if you don't like churches... then you probably wouldn't like if it sounded like a church, right? But anyway, like it or not, part of the practice is in the little world that we can see. And there, in that world, my understanding of the teaching of some of these ancestors is that they recommend that you totally devote yourself to the limited form. which is a ceremony. And also, I just happen to want to point out to you that that form is not the point of the ceremony. It's not the meaning of the ceremony. It's just... But it does accomplish a great deal, namely it gives you an opportunity to be totally devoted to something without any gaining idea.

[50:30]

I thought you said something about It's not that it's not a real part of it, it's that the actual significance is not just that I be totally devoted to Buddhism or I be totally devoted to the form. It's not just that. And that I get to be free of a lot of problems that I have by not being attached to what I'm doing and yet using all my passion and all my energy for this thing. That sort of is good for me, personally. That's my little carved dragon, which I like. Okay? But it's not just that. It helps other people, too. The point, this other part, the part you can't see is how it helps other people. Now, you maybe see, maybe you can see how, like, okay, I go to the Zen Dome and my neighbor says, you know, it really encourages me that you come here. Well, that's nice. But then that's part of what you can see and you feel good about that. But what about all the people who aren't in the Zendo who aren't telling you that you're helping them?

[51:31]

Even the ones who aren't in the Zendo that call you on the telephone and say they don't like you to sit Zazen, like your parents. What about those people? So that's the real meaning of Zazen, the full meaning of Zazen. The ultimate meaning of Zazen is not just saving you and the Zen group. It's about saving all beings. That's the real dragon. Yeah, I don't mind that. I'm not straight. Okay. I guess it's more when you, in my impression of Christian church, you go in and there's all this devotion out, out, out, out to something instead of to the, I don't know. You have a problem with that, okay? I'm not talking about that. But when you first start practicing zazen, when you do this ceremony, because you're a dualistic thinker, because we think dualistically, our devotion goes out. It goes out of us to the form of zazen. It goes towards the form because we think dualistically.

[52:33]

But if you give yourself completely to the other, to the practice, without trying to get anything for yourself, you personally become a faith entity because you're not just on a personal power trip anymore. You're giving your life energy to this form with no gaining idea. That's the carved dragons. You've done your job. You're selflessly practicing. But that's still not the whole story. It turns out that that practice doesn't just help you and free you from selfishness. It doesn't just help the other people who can see you who say, wow, she's so selfless and beautiful the way she practices. It's not even just that. It helps beings beyond the realm we can see. And when you devote yourself completely to light, to practice that way, then you stop doing it as your devotion going out. You break through that dualism and the practice is not any longer done. Devotion doesn't go outward anymore. It is a self-contained devotion because it is just the devotion of doing the practice for the practice.

[53:41]

But still, that's still not the whole meaning because you being that way, you practicing non-dualistically finally, By totally exerting your dualistic practice, you realize non-dual practice. By totally exerting your selfish practice, you realize selfless practice. But still, that's not the whole story, because you can know about that, and I can see it. It helps even beyond that. That's all. And it isn't to say that, again, that's why we say don't esteem or despise the real dragon. Don't say the real dragon is really where it's at, and the carved dragon is not so good. Don't say the carved dragon is better than the real dragon. Don't rank them They are non-dual also. But remember, if we forget that there's a real dragon in addition to the one we're working with, then we tend to start sinking into the carved one. So remembering the real one should help us from sinking in and nesting in this fantastically beautiful carved dragon, which is this form that all these people have done for thousands of years, which now we can do wholeheartedly.

[54:45]

It's possible to nest in there. No nestings. Why no nesting? Because there's more to it than that. And also, if you nest, you'll block even this place. You'll hurt the carved dragon and you'll block the real dragon. But that doesn't mean the real dragon is better than the carved dragon. It's just the real dragon completes the story of the carved dragon. They're complementary. They're not in a hierarchy. Okay? Now you must be totally happy. I now anoint you totally happy. No more problems. You don't even have problems with Christian church anymore. No, really you don't. No, you don't. You now feel comfortable with the Christian religion. You do, Aaron. Okay. So, Martha. I think Martha. Is it Martha? I'm never too sure, but you may have just answered it.

[55:47]

The question I have is when you said something for the fact that it isn't just about freeing ourselves from suffering but helping others to attain wisdom, the wisdom and compassion of the Buddha. It seems to me like they're happening simultaneously. There's a sense there that... They happen simultaneously, that's right. It's simultaneous. However, if you think it's just about saving yourself, that... Fixed view might block you from realization of how you're helping others. And if it blocks you from seeing it, it might block them from seeing it because you're not, you know, actively, you know, busting their views. Okay, I think Eric is next. I had a question about... Okay. Okay. So I was talking about, you know, thinking, you know, thinking like a Buddha and people have trouble.

[56:56]

So this is, you're practicing being upright, okay? You're practicing non-thinking. How does analysis come in here? Well, it turns out And people are different. Some people fall into this at a different rhythm cycle than others. But anyway, when you sit on this earth in this non-thinking way, which means you're not attached, you're not esteeming or despising what's happening. Things are just happening. You don't say, oh, great, this is like, no, Dharma pops ability. You don't say, oh, no. Next one, please. Next one, please. No, no, no. Next one, next one, next one. This is no good. Give me some more. Pretty soon I'll see something to meditate on. No. Basically, you're sitting there, you're practicing non-thinking, okay? And practicing non-thinking means you enter Dharma through the sameness of all things. Everything you meet you concentrate on how everything's the same. Everything offers you, everything is an opportunity to realize dependent core rising.

[58:01]

Of course. Of course. Everything gives you an opportunity to realize that things are insubstantial. Of course. But in fact, we have to cultivate that sense of appreciating the quality of all things. That's non-thinking. When you practice that way, which means you sit there and you love everything that meets you, then what happens is, things start taking off their faces. Like there's this movie I'll call Men in Black now, where everything keeps, everything's like in these sacks, you know, and keeps taking off the sacks and shows you what's underneath, right? Sometimes it's good news, sometimes it's not. But anyway, if you just practice non-thinking, you naturally enter into a kind of analytic meditation. But it's not that you're trying to analyze it, It's that things come and analyze themselves in your face. Spontaneous. Spontaneous analytic meditation arises like Kafka says. You don't have to move from your place, from your desk, from your seat.

[59:04]

Just sit still and quiet and wait. Don't even wait. Don't even be quiet. Just sit there. And the world will come to you and unveil itself. It has no choice but it will roll at your feet in ecstasy. The world will come and show you. You know, and what does Rumi say? Rumi says, the breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you. Don't go back to sleep. You have to say what you really want. Don't go back to sleep. People are walking back and forth at the threshold where the two worlds meet. The door is round and open. Don't go back to sleep. You just sit at that door. Everything's a door. Everything's a Dharma door. You sit there with this non-thinking, non-grasping sense of the equal opportunity of every event and the door opens and things show you what they are. They tell you the secret. They say, actually, I know I look like this, but really I'm just a story about me.

[60:09]

And if you just take away any element of the story about me, you'll see there's nothing to me. So then, when you're in this state, stories keep coming to you as usual, which seem to be things that are appearing, but you keep seeing the story, and the thing keeps getting emptied by seeing the story at the same time as the thing. The thing comes and tells you and says, don't forget, it was a story that brought me to you. Oh yeah, thank you. And then you're relieved of the substantial quality of the thing. Nothing can appear to us without a story, without mental imputation. But then we forget the story and think there's a thing. And it becomes rigid, we lose track of the dependent core arising, we ignore that reality, and we're dealing with solid things which you think substantially exist, and we've got problems. As soon as we remember the story, the thing gets emptied. So, you know, so here's just, you know, without further ado, let me tell the easiest stories for me to tell because you're on the top of my head.

[61:13]

The one that I told you the story where I was talking to someone at Tassajar during a session one time out in the garden, the abbot's garden. I was talking to her. In the middle of the conversation, I said to her, I do not believe what I'm thinking you are. I don't believe what I think you are I do not believe what I think you are I don't believe what I think you are you're not what I think you are because I did not believe what I thought she was and I was not going to believe what I thought she was and I didn't and I still don't therefore she's still alive and so am I highest wisdom Highest wisdom is not to grasp phenomena according to what you think they are. That's highest wisdom. And sometimes if you grasp things according to what you think they are you will do cruel things.

[62:16]

Cruel things. But when you see the story, you don't have to remind you. You don't have to tell yourself. You don't have to exhort yourself. Don't believe this. You just don't. You see the insubstantiality. You see the dependence of the phenomena on the story. Another story, just a couple years ago, somebody came to me in Tazahar and said, I don't trust my roommate. I said, how come? She said, because she's a liar. And I knew her roommate. who I thought was a pretty decent person and not what I would call flat out a liar. I sometimes slip into calling her a woman. But of course I don't grasp that as being what it appears to be. But anyway, that's not so bad. Grasping women is not so bad. But grasping liars... Grasping liars... That's pretty bad stuff. So I said, well, how come you call her a liar?

[63:19]

And then she told me a reason. You know, she told me this little story about how this person was a liar. And when she told me this one point, I thought, hmm, that's interesting. I didn't know about that. But still, I didn't see a liar. I just saw, well, that's kind of an interesting aspect that I didn't know about this person. Then she told me another point. I said, oh, that's... That's surprising. Then she told me a third point. I said, oh, my God. And when she told me the third point, I started to see this liar kind of forming in my mind. This liar started to appear. And then she told me a fourth point. And I actually saw very clearly a liar right before my eyes. It was a liar was created. But then at the same time, I thought, oh, but if you take away any one of those elements, the liar disappears. Even if you take away one of them, I lost the liar. Not to mention two. If you took away all four, the liar would be totally gone. And I saw that the very way she established this phenomena called the liar was exactly what showed me that the liar was empty.

[64:31]

The story by which she convinced me that her roommate was a liar was exactly what made me see that all liars are empty of lying. And I told her about it, and she saw that too, and she got relieved of thinking her roommate was a liar. Even though she still had the story, even if all these four points were, in some sense, themselves even left for temporarily as real, as real conditions, because they were real conditions for her feeling like the person was a liar, when she saw the conditions, she no longer fell for the story either. So when you're listening to somebody, as I was in that case, just listening to the person, not trying to analyze or anything, but just hearing the story, I watched this thing arise. But then I watched it dismantle itself. And so in this way, you will think of dependent co-arising without sort of saying, okay, now I'm going to think of dependent co-arising. Now, one of the ways you can say, okay, I'm going to think of dependent co-arising is to study it. books about dependent core arising and to listen to talks about dependent core arising and to have conversations about dependent core arising so you train your thinking so when that kind of when the analysis happens you won't get freaked out because a lot of times when things come up to you and they pull their skin off their face and show you sometimes you freak so you should get used to this kind of like skin removal thing by getting ready for it and talking about how good it would be if it happened

[66:01]

So you don't go to sleep every time somebody starts telling you a secret. Go to sleep because it's so shocking to see revelation. So study, intellectual study prepares your mind for saying, you know, it's okay if somebody would like reveal themselves to me. I'm up for it. And, you know, actually start advertising to people. I would really like you to tell me who you are. And then... And then they come and tell you and you get shocked and you sort of say, yeah, I did want this, didn't I? And you train yourself at that and then finally you can practice it and then the analytic meditation occurs spontaneously. That's, I think, the best way for it to occur spontaneously. And it helps to be patient and concentrated when the revelation occurs in addition to being wise and open-minded. The actual concentration does help you withstand the shock of of your world getting turned inside out. And the shock of all the things that can happen when reality starts giving you gifts.

[67:09]

That's how I understand thinking about dependent core rising. So you think about it in the ordinary sense of training yourself and studying about it. And you think about it in the meditative sense of being upright and having dependent core rising reveal itself to you. Having phenomena take their masks off. Having the world take its mask off, and roll at your feet in ecstasy. Does that make sense? Okay, so I think the next was Sway, and who was next? Was Alina next? So was Sway and Alina? Anybody else that I missed? Oh, Carrie. No, Carrie was, no, it was Carrie, Sway, and Alina. Carrie? Hi, you mostly answered my question, but I had a question just to clarify what, Okay, samadhi and jhana. Samadhi has three meanings, three ways it's used in Buddhism. One way samadhi is used, samadhi means basically the meaning of samadhi is mental one-pointedness.

[68:16]

Okay? So samadhi is the name of the mental factor which is omnipresent in the human psyche when it's aware of objects. Okay? Okay? Samadhi is one of the mental factors that are present in every moment of consciousness, according to the Buddhist scholastic tradition called Abhidharma, and Shakyamuni Buddha and other people. who not necessarily scholastics would say so too. That's one kind of samadhi. The other kind of samadhi is a samadhi where you discipline that state, that ability of concentration by picking a meditation object and concentrating on it and guiding yourself compulsively and obsessively back to an object. Okay? That's another kind of samadhi which you can develop this competence in this samadhi quality. And that kind of samadhi is sometimes also called shamatha, which means tranquilizing or stabilizing. And the higher reaches of this concentration practice, when your mind finally gets locked in to a meditation object, and you actually enter into another state of existence, that's jhana.

[69:39]

So jhana is the most concentrated and actually state-inducing kind of concentration practice. So jhana is a form of that kind of samadhi. And leading up to those kinds of samadhis is also leading up to that jhana are also samadhis. Okay? No. No. You can say that jhanas are samadhi, but some samadhis are not jhanas. So you could be practicing samadhi, but not yet being a jhana. So samadhi is a bigger term than jhana. Jhana is like the Mercedes-Benz of concentration practices. Well, it's the Mercedes and the Bentley, and it's the highest levels of concentration. So we have an event here called Aaron. What's happening, Aaron? What's happening? What does this mean? What's happening to you? Since it's happening, what is it?

[70:41]

Can we help you in any way? Huh? No? Do you feel like I love you? Huh? No? I do. I really do. So, is that enough for now? Well, I'm happy to talk about whatever's going on if you want. I had a hard time articulating, but it wasn't me. It was just my tissue. You did really well. But I didn't feel like you had enough patience. Not enough? Because I think that maybe my question got tiring. No, no, I'm not tired with your question. You kind of answered it for me. I mean, you kind of sealed me up at the end. Well, how can I open it up again? It doesn't need to be open enough. I just need you to think about it. Okay, I'm sorry if I didn't seem to be patient. I was actually, you know, having fun with you. I know. I didn't feel like I was... I wasn't impatient with you.

[71:49]

I was... I don't think... I didn't feel impatient. And I'm sorry. It's possible... I mean, the question wasn't probably helpful for a group situation, so... I thought it was pretty helpful. Give it a... at least a B. No, it's okay. I just thought since it was happening and since some of us were noticing it, maybe it would be good to discuss it. Maybe it might be settling. Anybody else have anything they want to talk about? Sway? I have a question about concentration and non-thinking. And you said today that Concentration is omnipresent even when we don't think it is necessarily or don't trust that it is. But then the other day you were saying about non-thinking that it goes and comes. Basically, sometimes non-thinking is there, and then other times it's gone.

[72:53]

And I haven't... You're mixing concentration and non-thinking. No, I know that they're two different things. Okay. But I think when you said that, I have a sense of, wait, isn't non-thinking there even when you don't realize that it's there? I have a sense that non-thinking kind of continues like concentration does. Well, you know, I think you're right that non-thinking is there, but non-thinking may be there, but you have no, you personally as a person don't have any appreciation of it because you're strongly involved in, for example, maybe preference. Non-thinking is like, is like accepting the opportunity of this experience and some other part of you may be so strongly wishing that something else was happening that the non-thinking is very weak. And I mean, it has very little evidence for you, for you or others, because you seem to be so strongly wishing. But the non-thinking, in some sense, is there with you.

[73:54]

So actually changes in strength and weakness? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sometimes you feel, sometimes you can feel non-thinking is very strong. In other words, you feel, I really feel like I appreciate everything that's happening now. I really appreciate my enemies and my friends and also appreciate the people in between who are neither. I appreciate every being I meet. I really feel like that. I really feel like I'm finally relating to things in terms of their equality rather than, you know, putting everything in a hierarchy and preferring this over that. You can actually feel that and then you feel like you've realized it and you could then go tell somebody and they could test you and say, yeah, you seem to be really, that's great, you know, that seems to be really strong in you now. So you can cultivate being upright. You can cultivate this non-thinking. It can get stronger, just like concentration can. But But being upright can be there in concentration and non-concentration, whereas concentration can't be there in non-concentration, except in the sense of the mind being focused on an object.

[75:03]

So that sense of concentration is always there, but the jhana is not always there. We're not always in a state where we're focused on some particular object. But regardless, you could have a strong, highly developed, fully developed, total devotion to practicing non-thinking, Or you can have a little bit of devotion to practicing non-thinking, and a little bit of devotion, you might have a little bit of realization of it. Does that make sense? Okay. And then Elena, and then maybe Elena is the last one, because we have another agenda on our program this morning. Yes? I was thinking of your story. You said, I do not believe what I think of you. Yeah. I was thinking that, well, this syndrome of the beauty and the beast in each one of us, and then there is Dharma, there is Buddha consciousness, and is it possible that under certain circumstances the negative part of us, which may even be evil or whatever, is drawn out by

[76:18]

Yes, definitely. Yes. Right. Right. Right. I'm not very experienced, but I believe this. Yes. Now, somebody like you... Here comes a story. ...would see this, that this is happening to you, but you do not believe it. Or at least I keep telling myself not to when I see that I am. When I see I'm tempted to believe it and see the horrors that would follow if I did, I start warning myself against it.

[77:23]

Or, if I'm lucky, I actually don't believe it, and yet I see the phantom appearing. But because I see the story at the same time, the phantom lacks substantiality, and it is like a dream. And I can talk to the dream, and the dream can talk back. It is exactly that. This is meditation on dependent core arising. That's what this is. Remembering that each person you meet is only appearing to you, is only manifesting to you, and only is an experience for you because of a story you have projected upon the world. The world prior to our projection of stories doesn't have these individual people in it. is just inconceivable coziness. And speaking of coziness, we have a musical interlude opportunity here.

[78:26]

Neil and Jeanette have offered to... Oh, not you! Neil has offered to sing. Neil... Could you please give us a song? Oh, okay. I'm embarrassed. Excuse me. the installment in an ongoing canon about three years ago i read it or so and thank you thank you very much In a dream You give birth to a fire My milk is to you You give birth to my heart too You give birth to all I do When I wake in the morning

[80:11]

I'm born into your arms. As this life inside is forming. It's protected with your charms. For I'm just a baby. Sometimes I think I was born blind. But sometimes, sometimes I can see the world that creates me. I don't see the world that I create. It's you, everything is you It's you It's you As I can, so I'll be the brilliant body, the voluptuous one.

[81:37]

I'm squeezed out of your love, you have pressed me into mine. To be drunk upon your lips, don't be drunk upon my beauty. You leave what you sow. You reap what you sow. So I'm just a baby. Sometimes I think I look fine. But sometimes, sometimes I can't see the world that creates me. I don't know. Oh, oh, [...] oh I must have patience with this process, the deliveries and arms.

[83:09]

Though I'm holding to the body, I must grow into the heart. We give birth to one another. Thanks to midwife to our love. May I truly be a lover to the brilliant shining color. For I'm just a baby and sometimes I think I was born. I'm just a product of the world's imagination. And if I could have sung, it's because I belong to creation.

[84:22]

Everything is still. Still. Still. Still. Thank you. When did you write that, Neil?

[85:23]

Just now? No, I wrote it two years ago or so. Oh. Sounds like a summary of this morning's call. So we have to go cook lunch now, right?

[85:34]

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