So we were studying case 36, and... The next case is 37, but I guess I'll just wait till next class to start that one. Case 36... There's a card there. Michael's gonna say thank you for this. Thanks for the card, Henry. No. It's money. It's already been opened.

[01:06]

Check it out. Oh, it's the card signed by various people. Thank you very much. He needs some money to offer tomorrow morning. I have to make a donation to Mao during the ceremony. Measure it with your position. Pardon? Measure it with your position. That's an out. You can open that car. Huh? Let's get it in. Okay, so... So the story here is Master Ma was unwell and the superintendent of the temple

[02:21]

monastery, asked him, Master, how is your venerable state these days? And Madsi said, sun-faced Buddha, moon-faced Buddha. And I wrote down here on this book, I wrote, keep your eye on the ball. And I wrote this down, too. The aspects of things that are most important for us are hidden because of their simplicity and familiarity.

[03:35]

One is unable to notice something because it is always before one's eyes. The real foundations of our inquiry do not strike us at all. This is the ball that we should keep our eye on. And the verse here says, Sun face Buddha, moon face Buddha, stars fall, thunder rolls. The mirror faces forms without subjectivity.

[04:42]

The pearl in the bowl rolls of itself. Don't you see, before the hammer, refined gold a hundred times? Under the scissors, silk from one loom. And then the poem from the other book is Sun Face Buddha, Moon Face Buddha. How can the ancient emperors compare to this? For 20 years,

[05:53]

I have gone down into the Green Dragon Cave for you. Last week, when I said that, some people thought that I was talking about myself. But I've been actually going down the Green Dragon Cave for you for 25 years. How many times have I gone down into the Green Dragon Cave for you? This distress deserves recounting. Clear-eyed, patch-robed monks do not take this lightly. So for me, it's just going down into the Green Dragon Cave is

[07:03]

is keeping the eye on the ball. Just keep the eye on the ball. That will take you down into the Green Dragon Cave. And the ball is something that's so familiar and so simple that doesn't strike you at all. And... So in one sense, the bitterness of the project is that it doesn't strike you at all. You have to work with something that you can't get a hold of and give yourself to... As somebody said to me yesterday, project of swallowing a fairly good sized aquarium or driving the Volkswagen's of your dreams so I might tell you a little story about Matsu kind of one I read today

[08:30]

Actually, before I read the story, I'll give you a little sermon by him. And that is, a monk comes up to him and says, I heard that you preach that mind itself is Buddha. And the monk says, I don't know. Yeah, but I just say that to help babies stop crying. The monk said, well, what would you say if the baby stops crying? And Matsu said, no mind, no Buddha. And the monk said, how would you direct a person who has gone beyond both these statements?

[09:55]

And Matsu said, I would tell her that it's not a thing. And the monk said, how would you direct a person who belongs to none of these, and suddenly comes up and asks about the way. Matsu said, I would let her comprehend the great way. So that's the ball to keep your eye on. Could you see it? It's hard to see. It doesn't strike you at all, does it? So one of his monks, one of his Matsus monks, was about to take leave of the master.

[11:02]

And so the master said, where do you intend to go? When you come to the Zen temple, the teacher says, where do you come from? And when you leave, the teacher says, where are you going to go? Where do you intend to go? What's the point of your going? And this monk's name was Dung Young Fung. That wasn't really his name. His name was Bill. Now do you believe me? And Deng Yunfeng said, I'm going to Shirtou, sir.

[12:14]

The two great teachers... from whom most lineages come down from, almost all lineages come down from are Shurto and Matsu. So one of Matsu's students says, I'm going to go visit Shurto. And Matsu says, the way to Shurto is slippery. Deng Fengying said in return, bamboo groves and forests are on the way I shall follow. In such places I shall enjoy nature. Arriving at Shirtou's place,

[13:22]

Chateau was seated on his Zen seat, and Dunn walked around him, shook his stick, and made a challenge. The challenge was, well, what school of teaching do you profess, sir? Chateau said, it's fine today. It's fine today. Dung had no words to say. He returned to Master Ma and told him the story, the true story. And Master Ma instructed him, Now you go back again, and if he says, it's fine today, then you give a deep sigh.

[14:41]

Would any of you care to demonstrate a deep sigh? Accordingly, Dung went back to Sirto and repeated the same question as before. But this time, when asked what school his teaching he professed, Sirto uttered a deep sigh. Dung had no words to say. And he went back to Master Ma and told him the true story. Master Ma said, I told you the way to Shirtou was slippery.

[15:49]

Could this be a true story? Do you like that story? Do you like this story? How about the front page Buddha and the moon page Buddha? What book is it from? It's called... It's called True Stories of the True School. Catherine, pleased to see that. I believe that. I believe that. It's called transmission of the lap, the early masters. So shall we watch the ball together and speak and not speak?

[16:57]

Can you see something that doesn't strike you at all? Do you see it by eliminating everything that's striking? Pardon? Do you see it by eliminating everything that is striking? Yes. Can you eliminate everything that's striking you? Give it a try. It's bitter work. Can you not see it? Can you not see it? No, you cannot avoid seeing it. It just doesn't strike you.

[18:06]

It's too close to strike you. But I think Henry's way is good. If you can eliminate everything that does strike you, you'll be in fine shape. But that's rough. That's like cutting off the tongues of everybody on earth. You might die. Tomorrow is the Buddha's, the day we recognize the death of the Buddha. Case 37 is really interesting.

[19:26]

We'll study that later. It's not helping to keep the eye on the ball. Why not? Striking has been struck. But is striking a thing? Did you play baseball as a child?

[20:45]

Did you play wholeheartedly? Huh? Played in the lot. And then, is that what led you to practice Zen? Was it bitter work? That baseball game? It was fun. And did you have enough? Did you play that fun game long enough? Have you played that game long enough? Are you ready to put that game aside? Not yet? I don't know if that was a true story,

[22:01]

Maybe it is. Maybe she's honestly admitting that she's still not ready to put aside her childhood games and be an adult. But frightening as it might be, I'd like to be there when you put that aside. I don't wish that the cause for this will happen, because that would be wishing you something extremely horrible. to help you. But still, if that horrible thing comes, I'd like to be there at that time to see how you put aside everything that led you to that time.

[23:21]

Why is it a horrible thing? What is a horrible thing? What is a horrible thing? Well, for most people, it's the most bitter pain. For a Buddhist monk, it's not keeping your eye on the ball. In golf, the main thing, the two main things are keep your feet on the ground and your eye on the ball.

[24:56]

And it's funny, you know, as you lift the club up and just look down at the ball and you start bringing that club down, it's hard to keep your eye on the ball. Even though you don't have to wait for just a jiffy, because the club's coming fast. I mean, if you take away the club and just sit there and watch the ball, you can sit there. It's easy, you know? Like this heart, you know, I can watch this heart, I can watch it. But somehow, if I take a club and bring it, swing it down to hit the thing, it makes it harder for me to keep my eye on the ball. Do you know what I mean? Isn't that funny? If you're not swinging at it, it's easy to keep your eye on it. And when you're swinging at it, then you should keep your eye on it, and it would be very helpful to keep your eye on it in terms of the game and hit in the ball and so on it's harder even though you already have your eye on it and you're just going to swing this thing down and you kind of but it's kind of that you want is it because perhaps that you want to see the club hit it and you kind of want to like look away from the heart for a second and look at the club to watch the club come down and hit it is that the reason why it's hard to keep your eye on it perhaps

[26:16]

What other reasons might it be difficult? What? It's because you think of where... No, your consciousness... Wait a second, what was that? It's because your visual cortex is attuned to movement. Movement will attract your attention when something's stationary. So when something moving goes through, that's where your attention... And also, Martha says you want to see where it's going to go. And you're imagining where it would go. And also the movement of your muscles brings your consciousness to the muscle level and so you're not using your eye anymore. You're really keeping your eye on the ball by not looking at the ball but paying attention to it. So if you just keep your eye on the ball all the time, you're not really keeping your eye on the ball. Yeah. Keeping your eye on the ball is not keeping your eye on the ball. It's hard. It's hard work. You have to give up your usual thing of hitting balls to hit the ball, to keep your eye on the ball.

[27:21]

This is difficult, this game. Ah, acquiescence. Slippery. It's slippery. The path to this school is slippery. It's also said to be precipitous. One false move and you slip just a little bit over the cliff you go. Have you ever read the book The Inner Game of Tennis? Have I? No. The Inner Game of Tennis, one of the things that the author brings up is when professional players in their top form, when they're playing, so to speak, above themselves or over their head, it has the quality of effortlessness and freedom and a certain feeling of transcendence.

[28:34]

And you also teach the person to play bounce-hand. Do I bounce hit with the mind? You have to throw a small mind from a little piece of meat. The bounce hit mind? The bounce hit meat? Henry, please. You watch the scenes of the role, and you teach people to watch the scenes of the role, because the role itself, like that red piece of candy, is very boring. It just, so that you have to tell people to notice the scenes, and it reminds me a little bit of noticing the breath, and you get that kind of like, a little way of picking out all the details. pulling your mind to that place. Uh-huh. Something about the whole bones looking from the scene.

[29:37]

It's something to look at, focus on. Well, and notice the movement, too. Yes. So you notice the movement. I think the expression laying over your head Well, can I ask a question about basketball? Now, the last time I checked on basketball, when you shot a ball into the air and it went through the basket in regular play, that was called... You got two points for that. But now I hear you get three points for that. Yeah, now is that like a new thing? Huh?

[30:40]

Well, I mean like 30 years ago it wasn't that way, right? How long ago did that happen? Ten years. Ten years? Is that called a field goal, or what's that called? Touchdown. No. What's it called? It's called a three-point. Three-point shot. Three-point shot. A three-pointer. I just, my daughter's a, what do you call it? She's a manager of a basketball team, and she said, he made a three-pointer, and I thought, what is that? Is that a one-shot plus a free throw, or three free throws, or what is that? Now she was actually quite patient on this one.

[31:40]

Any questions on this case? Linda? In the poem, the phrase, a pearl in a bowl rolled itself, was very... Okay, this expression also appears in case 26 and case 29. this pearl rolling on itself. And it may occur other places, too, in this book that I haven't found yet. But anyway, part of this idea of keeping your eye on the ball is to remember that you're keeping your eye on something that's turning.

[33:00]

You're orienting towards a pivot, not a ball, it's not a pearl that's sitting there, but a pearl that's turning on itself. Or like we were talking about last week, you orient towards a place, but it's a place that's turning in this bowl, or it's a place where your self is turning on itself, or where your self is being made by things, and where your self is going to things. Where you turn from you do things to things do you. This is the place. This is that difficult place to go to. To go to this place is, I think, involved in art. But again, you know, How can you keep your eye on the ball that you can't see while you're going through the realm of madness?

[34:07]

It's very slippery. Do you have to watch the lines? Huh? Do you have to watch the lines? You do watch the lines, but it's more subtle than just watching the lines, yes. Is there an element of faith in watching this ball without seeing it? Does faith have a big part to play as well as looking at the lines and these cultics and the shake it is? It's just a matter of faith. Well, I don't know if I understand what you're saying, but my response to your question, whether I understand it or not, is it's all a matter of faith. The question is, what is your ultimate agenda as you enter the realm of good and evil? What's your agenda there? What's your highest hope? Where do you put down, where would you bet your life as you enter that realm? With experience only. And with the experience that I could be able to help other beings to deal with that whole experience.

[35:19]

Is that what we're here for? Help other beings? What? He said, help other beings? What do you mean? Well, I think my first impulse, you know, I think that, I don't know, the preoccupation with helping other beings to me seems like... He's not afraid of evil. I think it sounds a little bit, it doesn't seem first order to me. You know, helping other beings. I hear a lot of talk about helping other beings, but what's first order? Helping self. And maybe there's some confusion there about what actually is helping self. And it may be a lot more than... In other words, helping other beings and helping self may be connected in some way or another. I'm not denying that possibility, but... I just... It's open here.

[36:36]

You know, no offense, but sometimes when people say, And helping other beings. It just seems so tacked on, helping other beings. It just doesn't seem like filled with the original drive. I don't know what you're doing. Everything I say always sounds so self-condemnatory, but... You haven't got into that yet. No, I haven't. No, you haven't. No, but I think that, like, for example, copying to, you know, copying to the idea that helping other beings is not first order, you know, seems so, you know, seems like people go, oh, poor Kathy, Helping other beings is not first order for that. Well, that's us. That's our pity of you. That's our pity of you.

[37:37]

That's not you being self-condemnatory. Show us a little of that. Come on, just do it. Just do a little bit of it. Why should I do that? Why should you do that? Yeah. That would be saving other... I think I'll be condemning you. You do it so much better. You can do it with art, I must say. All right, thank you.

[38:39]

No, I don't think there's anything self-contemptory in what I say, except for the fact that I'm self-centered. I never thought that you had to exclude yourself. I'm sorry, from what? From saving you. Well, I don't have to exclude myself from saving people. I'm not actively trying not to save people. Are you actively trying to save yourself? Yes, I think so. But, you know, I was about to say, but fairly ineptly. Oh, there we go. Anybody else want to give it a try? How about you? You're in a loving-kindness meditation.

[39:42]

Offer love to yourself. Offer love to yourself. Ah, yeah. Was that a deep sigh? That was like a deep sigh. I was reflecting on the fact that whenever we do the loving-kindness meditation... ...I always sort of have an ironic feeling. I always sort of feel sort of cynical as I'm a psychiatrist. Well, cynical is different from ironic. Yeah, sure. Now, ironic, I think, would be a true 10 response. Well, as usual, I wouldn't do that. Hey, Kathy, would you be interested in, like, trying to save all beings if you thought you could save yourself?

[41:06]

Uh, sure, yeah. Well, I want to say that I feel like you were hoping to save me by what you just said. Because I really liked what you said, so I feel really good now that you've said it. Well, in general, I feel like sometimes just to say what I feel is true, even if it may not be, but what I feel. To say what feels honest, it may be of some use. What?

[42:07]

. [...] Yes? I am very much interested in the Medicaid and somehow sharing how we can go there, how we can stay there, how we can come back, how it lives in our minds and our everyday life and what it does to us.

[43:12]

And I kind of, I feel... It's such a funny class, but for me it's like a really serious case. It's not just about laughing, but it's also close to crying for me. It's a very deep thing, and I can really feel it. It really touches me very deeply. So I just wondered if that's the case for more people, and in a way we laugh because it's so serious. Is that just me, or? You know, there's Sarajevo jokes. I heard on the radio this guy from Sarajevo. There was a Sarajevo film festival in New York a couple of months ago where Sarajevo film people were coming and showing their work in New York. And I think it was Terry Gross interviewing this Sarajevo filmmaker.

[44:18]

I think the person who organized it. the festival of Sarajevo films. She says, how do you feel about going back to Sarajevo? And he said, she said, do you feel weird like being in New York, like in this film festival and like thinking of going back to Sarajevo? And he said, yeah. He said, it's like, it's like another world. She says, is it like another world? He says, yeah, it's like another world, but it's also like, you know, It's like in another galaxy. It's also like being in another era. It's like going back 400 years or something to some medieval time. So he said it's unbelievably different there. And then I think she said, is there any sense of humor about this inconceivably horrible situation? And he says, yeah, we have lots of jokes about the situation. There's lots of laughter. And so... Of course, we can't laugh about Sarajevo, but the people in Sarajevo can laugh about Sarajevo.

[45:22]

It's not for us to laugh about Sarajevo. We get to laugh about Green Gulch. And we do have some things to laugh about about Green Gulch. Let's talk about the things we can laugh about about Green Gulch, shall we? Let's have some Green Gulch jokes. We just had some, right? Thank you. And then there's some other Green Gals jokes, which you could probably think of. Just think of the sewer system here. I had somebody else's shorts in my laundry. Think about somebody stealing your shorts. Somebody stole some people's shorts. In our suffering here at Green Gulch, we can laugh, and definitely. But it's just you, and it's just me, really. You have to laugh from yourself.

[46:23]

So there are some Sarajevo jokes, but I don't think I should tell them. I think somebody from Sarajevo should tell you those jokes. Who, me? Again, there's that ball. Again, there's that ball. When somebody else is talking about your family, you have to remember who they're talking about is themselves. And if you're kind, and when they're talking about your family, if you're kind, I think you naturally will be offended in direct proportion to their lack of awareness that they're talking about themselves.

[47:35]

If somebody talks about your family but doesn't realize they're talking about themselves, then they'll hurt you. If somebody talks about your family and realizes they're talking about themselves, it won't hurt you. And even if you're a compassionate person, you don't need to hurt for their sake if they realize that they're talking about themselves. But if you're compassionate and they talk about your family, even if they talk about your family in a very praising way, if somebody comes up to me and praises my daughter, but they don't realize they're talking about themselves, It hurts me. And I'm offended that they're hurting themselves by not keeping track of who they're talking about. And it's difficult then for me to just sit there and be hurt and not let them know that I'm hurting over what they've just done to themselves on the topic of my family. Do you understand? Do you understand? Do you want me to say it again?

[48:44]

If I talk to you about... If you talk to me about my family, or about me, and while you're talking to me about me, you don't realize that you're talking to me about yourself. If you talk to me as though you think... you're talking about me and not talking about yourself, if you talk to me that way, that hurts me. It hurts me in one sense because you're not doing your work, which hurts you and that hurts me, and it also hurts me because you misconstrue me for yourself and therefore you don't recognize me. But if you realize that when you're talking about me you're really talking about yourself, then I feel you recognize me and it feels good. But I'm not saying that you shouldn't talk about me and lose track of it. You're really talking about yourself at that time because I know sometimes you can't help it.

[49:49]

I'm just saying it hurts me when you do that. That's all. And I'm saying my pain is in direct proportion to how much or little you're aware of that when you're all talking about me, you're talking about yourself. Just like now I'm talking to you, but I'm really talking to myself. And the more I keep track of that, the less it pains you. Is that in all conversation or just in... This is going to be good. Well, I certainly want it. Or just in what? Is it true of all conversations or just in... Just in specifics, if you said, oh, your daughter's smart, or oh, your daughter's pretty. It's in all conversations, and it's in the specifics. Back home. You mean, how can it be in both? Well, yeah. I mean, if you're observing something about someone else, or if you're saying she has a new dress, or gee, he's got tall, or... I mean...

[51:00]

any kind of light conversation, how would that reflect back? On you? Yeah. You mean when you see someone, when you see something and then you tell me what you see, when you tell me what you see, you're wondering how it reflects on you? You've just told me how you see. You've told me about how your mind works. That you have told me, for sure. I could understand it if I said the statement, something like, oh, if I said something to you like, oh, I'm sorry you didn't have sons, you had daughters, because I could understand that being me because I have a little sadness that I didn't have any daughters. So I could understand that change reflecting back on me.

[52:02]

Good. I get that. Yes. And that makes perfect sense in what my scope is of understanding. But even if you said that and you understand it, if as you said it you forgot who you're talking about when you talked about that, then I say I would feel pain. And, I mean, I do feel pain. Just like right now I feel pain. Does that mean I'm not sensitive? That's okay. I mean, I... It's okay that you're causing me pain. Live it up. Go for it. I just don't understand. You want to take my pain away? Don't say it. Huh? Don't say it. No, keeping yourself doesn't help at all. If you'd like just keeping quiet but doing it in your head, it hurts just as much. At least this way we can come to it.

[53:02]

And I can tell you, you want to know how to take my pain away? This is called saving sentient beings, by the way. It is the most fun thing to do. If you would just right now, looking over at me, realize that you're seeing yourself, then my pain will go away right now. Please save me. Huh? So anytime you drive me crazy, or vice versa, anything that's irritating that I do to you or you do to me, or any exchanges, and I do understand that. The thing that irritates you the most about other people is certainly your behavioristic. Well, it's more than that what I'm talking about. It's not just that we're dealing with ourselves, but it's the level at which we're realizing we're dealing with ourselves when we're talking to other people. you still may see the person and be irritated by something about them.

[54:03]

But if you realize at that time, even though you're still irritated about it, just like you'd be irritated about it in yourself. It's something about yourself you're having trouble adjusting to. There's a lot of things about ourselves which we have absolutely no way to adjust to except through others. Because when it comes to being by ourselves, we totally avoid it. We don't look at it at all and we just like will never look at it. we meet another person who gives us a chance to project something out about ourselves that we cannot get outside. We look inside, and it's right over there, and we never look at it. This person walks up, like, right over there. This person, like, reflects it, and we go, yuck-o, because we've been working to not look at it in ourselves, and now there it is right out there. We're being forced to look at what we've been working to not look at. So then we have comments about it. which we say or gesture about. Or, you know, or inside we gesture and say.

[55:09]

First of all, actually. I've been trying to not notice it about myself. I've been trying to keep separate from that, you know, and so on and so forth. And now there it is. And that's the advantage of practicing with other people is because they open up our selection process about how we study ourselves. So that's that. Then, as that happens, if we realize again and again that everything you see is yourself, everything I see is myself, I can remember that and remember also that I don't think it's myself. Two, as part of admitting that I don't think it's me, that's the first step, that's the confession. That's the first step to admitting and realizing that it is yourself, because we cannot see anything that's not ourself, because we draw everything that we see from inside of ourself. We just pull up stuff from our own mind to interpret what's happening. We don't not do that, ever, in terms of what we're aware of.

[56:14]

We always interpret what's happening in terms of our own stuff. And we have stuff in ourselves for everything that we see. I have stuff for all you people. I have a dossier, an extensive dossier on all you people so I can cope with your, you know, varying situations. And if you get too rambunctious, I'll just increase my file catalog so I can keep interpreting you. And you all do the same thing. I propose to you... The wall at the street? Mm-hmm. Is that the ball in the street? I don't understand what you mean. I know, but what do you mean? I said, while you were talking, I suddenly, you know, with psychological theories, you know... I got it. I don't know if anybody else did. I don't know what you meant, but what I got was the... Actually, you know, I don't know if that's the bones, but I think anyway there's a tremendous flexibility in the way we interpret the external object, that we come up with stuff to use, we're stuck in ourselves to say what's happening out there with tremendous flexibility and speed.

[57:31]

We never left, almost never left bereft of some interpretation of what's going on. And interpretations are all in our own hand. our own computer. We're seeing ourself all the time. And the more we realize that, the closer we come to meeting this thing out there which is not our interpretation. Other people are not our interpretation. You are not my interpretation. I really feel that. And part of the reason why I feel that is because you press me and press me to keep interpreting you with new and innovative materials from myself. But again, the more I own up to my work, the closer I feel, the more honest I feel, and the more at peace I feel, and also I notice, the more do you then start admitting what you're up to.

[58:35]

So it isn't for me, I'm not just sitting here telling you you're doing this. The more I admit I'm doing it myself, the easier it is for you to admit it, that you're doing it yourself, and if you admit it you're doing it yourself, then I feel less pain, and encouragement it's not that the less pain is encouragement but encouragement that that work leads to less pain because then the pain comes right back again because I always meet people who are you know either pressing me to turn away from what I'm doing or that they're not doing their work and that hurts me and so on so I don't have any lack of an inspiration to do this work yes When you were talking, I had the question, so like when the monk has nothing to say, is that, I mean, that would be like the agenda isn't come before. In a lot of cases, that's what it could be.

[59:38]

So like when these monks are speechless, with nothing to say, that possibly they're observing the pearl rolling on its tongue, that they're right. Yeah, it's possibly that somehow that the teacher is working so hard to keep track of her stuff that the monk suddenly keeps track of his stuff and is stopped in his tracks. And we have a tendency to think that that's some failure. That's exactly right. We think that's a failure, and it is a failure. It's a failure at our most powerful mental function. our mind consciousness, which can always say, external object, external object, outside, and this is what's outside. It's outside, it's [...] outside. We can do that so fast, much faster than we can even think of doing it. It's powerful.

[60:40]

And not only that, but we can say it's outside and come up with what it is. Like that, and all day long we do this, through 24 hours a day. But, there are moments When someone shows us, or we stumble upon ourself, the honesty of admitting that process so thoroughly, we admit it, and there is a moment there where you have no interpretation. There's no interpretation. That you just, you know, you're bereft of conceptualization. but through admission of the process, not by stopping it, not by denying it, not by thinking you're better than that, but by enjoying it to the fullest, moment by moment. You're clinging so tight, you cling so hard, that you let go. It's past nine.

[61:43]

This is the end of this class. That's it. And... Yes. So, next year, we'll study case 37, which is kind of... we'll follow from this quite nicely. What I'm talking about is love? Yeah, right, that's what I'm talking about. That's right, that's what I'm talking about, love. Horrible, bitter, scary love. That state of non-conception, is that an end point or a beginning? Henry, really, I think we should stop and talk about this some other time. Just you and I. Okay.

[62:31]

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