Being upright. Being upright is the gate to the study of pentechrorizing and the awareness and expanding of pentechrorizing You can actually give it right, give it always to great compassion.

[01:01]

To great compassion, then put it back to being upright. To be upright, and in that state of being upright to study what's happening, develops what we call perfect wisdom. And from perfect wisdom comes great compassion. I wrote down here, thinking or feeling, developing thinking and feeling about the awareness of the pinnacle arising, thinking about

[02:29]

what you are, thinking about what you are, feeling, being aware of what you are, or how you're made, or what you're made of, how you're created. This kind of study, I felt that some people felt it was a little Busy or noisy. And I can understand that. You might feel that way. It can be quite exciting. A different kind of practice from trying to calm your mind. Again, this practice is done calmly, this exciting practice of seeing how you're born and how you die, the potentially exciting or thrilling scene in which you are created and disappear.

[03:54]

This study of this is best done in a state of balanced calm of alert equanimity. And someone said to me the other day that the near enemy of equanimity is indifference. So if you were studying dependent co-arising of one of your favorite people, and you were also studying the creation of yourself, thinking about how yourself is created, and doing it with equanimity, a near danger might be that you would move into indifference.

[05:00]

And indifference could be distinguished from equanimity in the sense that indifference would be that your heart would be closing to the process. You would see yourself being created, or you would see your life activity being created, and you would close your heart to it, perhaps in order to try to stay calm. or not get too upset about seeing yourself created, and seeing yourself be threatened with destruction. So to develop indifference or apathy in the face of the anxiety you might feel as you see yourself being created and destroyed, are appearing and disappearing, that's not the right kind of attitude, that kind of indifference. Somehow, if you can keep yourself equiposed and calm, at the same time stay open to the dramatic scene of your creation, that's kind of what I call being upright.

[06:22]

So you're not trying to excite yourself by the show. You're not trying to calm yourself. You're just staying present and balanced in the face of a very dynamic situation in which you are appearing and disappearing. So you're open-heartedly studying yourself. But again, even the open-heartedness is best not to get so open-hearted that you get really excited about the study, because then you'll get real tired out if you get too excited. So in a way, studying another way to talk, some other ways of talking about studying dependent core arising... or observing and learning about how to, finally anyway, actually enter into intimacy with the dependently co-arising world.

[07:41]

Another way to talk about this is to say to study the self. And one of the kinds of instructions from Dogen Zenji that might be a place to watch is that he says that to practice and confirm all things while holding a self is delusion. So if you've got the self, And then with the self, you make things, you create things, you confirm things, you realize things, you control things, the self is there controlling things, making things, creating things, that's delusion. But when all things come forward and create the self, or when all things come forward and the self is realized,

[08:45]

When that's how it is, that's awakening. That's bodhi. But there's this important pivot called the phenomenal thing called the self is a pivot for the delusion, the world of delusion, and it's also the pivot for the world of bodhi. It just said in the world of bodhi, things are happening, and then there's a self. First of all, in the world of bodhi, there's not a self. There's just this dependent co-arising, and then through dependent co-arising process, a self is realized. In the world of, in the world of, of a sleepness or delusion, there's a self, and then the self is trying to get control of things and make things. But if you watch, if you study how the self is going around doing all this stuff, just like in art, if you watch yourself as an artist, watch yourself create conversations and other things, the self is already there and then the self is now interacting with the phenomenal world.

[10:17]

If you watch more and more carefully how it is that you think or how it is that there's an understanding here a deluded understanding the self's already here and then there's the world the self's already here and then the self enters the world of causes and conditions and makes things happen if you watch that carefully you can get to the place where somehow if you think about this process carefully you can see that it will turn around turn around and there'll be a time when the self will not be there and there will be this things happening and then there'll be a self. In other words, you'll see the dependent core rising of the self and the insubstantiality of the self. Now, Even if you don't... So what I'm talking about, which makes some people feel like there's some noise in the room, or noise in their head, or something that sounds a little bit different, is I'm talking about developing the perfection of wisdom.

[11:36]

Now, I'm talking about developing the perfection of wisdom. But there are other perfections that are important too, like giving. careful observation of every little thing you think and say and do with your body, patience, enthusiasm and concentration. If you, in the world where you're there and then you're operating on the world, If in that world you practice giving conscientious behavior, patience, enthusiasm and concentration, if you act in these ways, this is something which will give you a reward.

[12:38]

in some sense, like what Martha was talking about yesterday, where suddenly you just drop, you get access to the world of Dependent Core Rising. Okay? And I think the fact that so many of you are grateful may be due to your practice from a deluded point of view. You still actually have this superficial and deep-seated belief in your independence. Superficial means in your ordinary perceptual world you see self and other, you take that as substantial reality and you act from there, but also deep down, even when you're asleep, you also have that belief of your independent existence. And with that belief, under the auspices of that delusion, you do some good things.

[13:43]

You try to practice giving and so on. And as a result of all these good practices and karmas, it is possible that you get this gift of access to the world of ultimate reality. And you feel very grateful to have a taste of it. However, without training yourself in the perfection of wisdom, it does not become the established situation for your life. In addition to doing all these good practices which will reward you And by giving you access to the reality of dependent co-arising, you also need to train your thinking and your intellect so that this becomes a confirmed habit of thought. So you actually have gradually a deep conscious and finally unconscious or deep conscious

[14:53]

non, you know, objective knowledge level of consciousness, conviction of the dependently co-arisen world, the world of inconceivable beauty of interdependence. And the training and perfection of wisdom is at the beginning verbal. It is intellectual all the way through, but intellect is more than just verbal training. But it starts verbally. For example, it starts with an instruction like, study yourself. And then I say to you this thing about watch to see how the self does this stuff and get more and more intimate with the process by which you do things. And as you become more and more processed, more and more intimate with the way you think you do things and you practice things, you get closer to the moment of seeing where there's a moment where there's not a self for a second and where things come forward and then there is.

[16:05]

And you see this new self, this dependently co-arisen self. So the language, the words of the instructions of the teachers, you're taking them in and thinking about them in conjunction with your study of the self. And another way to put it is to think of not thinking. Okay? Or to think of unthinkableness. Or to think of What does not think? And how do you think of unthinkableness or how do you think of not thinking? Non-thinking.

[17:07]

This is training in perfection of wisdom. So Dogen Zenji gives us instructions of how to practice zazen. And the essential part of the instruction is this instruction in the perfection of wisdom, which is about thinking. And once again, I have tried to teach that little section of the Phukan Zazengi many times, and it's hard for people to study that section about thinking of not thinking, because when you get into it, you might start becoming aware of how miserable you are. Because as you start to try to understand what it means to think of not thinking, and you try to understand what it means to practice non-thinking, you might stumble upon the way you are thinking. And the way you are thinking is very painful.

[18:09]

So what a lot of Zen students like to do is they like to practice jhana, so that their thinking is subdued, quieted, because their thinking is so painful. Many Zen students, their main pain is the way they're going around judging everything all the time. It's very painful for them. So they'd rather just stop judging. But you can't stop judging. unless you have, you know, some, unless you go into a, you can stop temporarily by going into a trance or taking drugs. You can stop for a fairly long time by having surgical removal of a part of your brain. But, you know, in the long run, you're just going to, you're going to recover from these procedures and then you start thinking again. And you will think this old way, this deeply established way of, you'll think in terms of self and other being substantial entities, substantial realities.

[19:20]

And then you'll be in pain again. So then you'll want to, again, get some amnesia or some anesthetic for that pain. But there is no anesthetic for it, really, that lasts for very long. What really works is to understand how this illusion of substantial entity of a substantial self is created. To get into the workshop where this thing is created and watch how we gradually start to fall for it. So I will discuss with you how to look at the process by which the self is created and and um but you each of you has your own little you know laboratory where the self is being conjured up and believed in and also where it is being believed in even before it's conjured up just as a just as a given it's believed in on a deep level so once again

[20:28]

what I'm proposing, which again is hard for people to understand, is that you start studying the self, and you start studying dependent co-arising with words, intellectually. You do that. And you work at that, but then you do pass beyond that into a way of being with the dependently co-arising world and the world which doesn't have substantial entities in it, which is beyond words. And that takes you down to the deeper level at which we hold these views of independent self. We hold them up in this world, and we hold them down in a deeper, deeper world, a world that happens, which is still going on, even in orgasmic situations. Even in those situations where you feel bonded and one with everything, This latent belief is still just sitting there saying, this shall pass.

[21:35]

This sense of merging in oneness, it'll be over pretty soon. Let them have a good time. They like a break. But you know, even though it's painful to believe in independent self, what can I say? It's reality. So, I know it's painful, but it just happens to be the way it is and there's nothing I can do about it. So if somebody can take a break from this occasionally, let them do it. It won't last long. Okay, so I wanted to just say one other thing is that we're putting together a booklet, right? Is that true? Is there a booklet being put together? It's finished. Where are they? There's some books hidden in that cupboard. Okay. about enough for everybody to have, right? And these books have in them a reading list, and they have in it a little sutra passage from the Buddha about how to train yourself, and then they also have

[22:48]

a translation of a Chinese text on sitting meditation, actually called Sitting Zen, Sitting Dhyana. Okay, so you can see a text there, a Zen, supposedly Zen, you know, a text which had very strong influence on the Zen world. It's about how to sit dhyana. And then you see Dogen Zenji's first, not first, but you'll hear one of his earliest versions anyway, of Fukanzazengi. And then the commonly known version of Fukanzazengi. And then an article I wrote about Zazen. as a ceremony. So those are in there. There's also a reading list of other things which were too big to put in there, books that you can read. The purpose of the reading list and these works is I'd like to show you and have you study the lineage, some different lineages of Zen meditation, some that are veering towards dhyana, some that are veering towards studying dependent core rising.

[23:59]

and see if we can understand, you know, these lineages. And hopefully we can salvage Soto Zen Buddhism in the process. Because I must say it's hanging in the balance here. Okay, so... Maybe, I don't know, maybe that's enough. Do you have enough? Are you ready to do questions now? Do you have more time for questions today or do you want more input? You're not sure? Huh? A little bit more input is what I could do as one of the questions from, it wasn't a question so much, but it starts out with a question. How do you practice meditating on things? How do you meditate on on how things come to be or depend on co-arising without making it into a story?

[25:03]

How do you meditate on how things come to be without making it into a story? Well, in fact, this is kind of like a little twisted here. When you meditate on things, When you meditate on how things come to be, you already have a story there called you meditating on how things come to be. You already got a story, which is the phenomenal event of you, of you, so that's a story, meditating on dependent co-horizon. That's already a story. Now, how about things as they come to be? You could also, the question could also be changed slightly. How could you, how could things come to be without a story? And the answer is, things do not come to be without a story. Without a story, no things happen in this world. There would be no world without story. And also, in the realm of ultimate reality, in the realm of bodhi, there are no things without stories.

[26:12]

Even in the realm of bodhi there could be things, but the things always come with stories. You can't have a thing without a story. The way things are actually happening They need a humanly imposed story to have a space to be... They actually need a story to even have a space to be. And then they need a story to tell what it is that's going to be. So in fact, you need stories to... Initially anyway, you need a story to guide yourself into the meditation, and then if you're going to meditate on a thing, there will be a story of the thing. You will see how in the way anything comes to be, there is a story which facilitates that existence. That's the first question. So, I think Jordan has a long time to go. Yes, Jordan? Can I mention your confession?

[27:13]

Yes, you can mention it. Jordan was nice enough to confess that he actually does believe, he's one of the first to admit he does believe in his independent existence. Except he does not believe that it's kind of like insubstantial. Well, and, you know, toward the end of what you introduced this issue with, you said that many people, you know, even in orgasmic bonding or, you know, in just, in maybe meditative absorptions, they still have some of the seed of their separate self present. Yeah, right. Not the seed, no, no, they have the flowering of it. They have the flower, they have the fullest expression of it, okay? And the flowers have seeds for further flowers. Is there a problem with that? Is there a problem with that? I have about a 17-part question. Okay, the first part, is there a problem with that? Well, I don't know if you want to say that cruelty and viciousness and pain and suffering and fear and anxiety are a problem, but if you think they're a problem...

[28:24]

That's the problem, because that's where all this stuff comes from, is that place. And if you don't think it's a problem, then we could do a little thing to help you. Do you understand that as a problem? Or not? Well, I also think that compassion and kindness and generosity come from a place that for many people comes out of their separate sense of self. Right, but that's not great compassion. That kind of compassion is compassion for your clan, your kids, your own kids. That kind of compassion is still compassion, In fact, if you have kids, your own kids, and you want them to be healthy, you are, as a human being, designed, I would say, karmically, to be nice to your kids. As a matter of fact, it works better if you're nicer to your kids than other kids.

[29:26]

So your kids will get better grades than the other kids will at school. So actually, that kind of compassion, that kind of kindness is actually... helpful to your little clan, and it is good to do it. But great compassion is the compassion you have for all beings, aren't your kids? Including your kids, too, of course. And that is only possible with the practice of all these practices, plus perfectionism. Well, I don't want to... Maybe I just say one more... Ask one more question, and then I'll leave it to other people. Okay. All right. Was that point clear, too, that I'm saying? No, that point's not clear to me. Okay. Because I feel like that great compassion for benefiting all beings, really a sincere, deep desire for all beings, that person can have that feeling and still have a sense that they're independent self.

[30:29]

Oh. Would you like to give some evidence of that? Well, you know, part of this, part of the issue that revolves around here for me is the question of faith or experience. And I have to go actually to a place of faith to believe in the insubstantiality of myself because my experience is that my self is substantial. And yet, in my experience in my life, I'm saying these words and probably digging a deep hole here. Anyway, I feel sometimes something as intuitive, sympathetic respect for the deep compassion you described. And yet... I also have pretty much, throughout my practice, still believed that there was somebody called Jordan, maybe the name Jordan isn't correct, but something separate from the person who's a rep. Yes.

[31:30]

Okay. And so have I not been capable of actually really having deep compassion? Has my life actually not yet expressed deep compassion? I think it's possible for each of us to resonate with great compassion. Again, some aspect of us has access to the realm of great compassion. And when you have access to the realm of great compassion, this is something that you often feel grateful for. grateful just to have a touch, to feel a little great compassion in your life. Many people feel great joy and gratitude for that taste. And as I said, that's very much the same. When you feel great compassion, you have entered the realm of perfect wisdom. You have gotten access to the realm of ultimate reality where things are not independent of each other. That access, which can be deeply resonating, can be held, can be experienced, deeply moving you while you still deeply hold the belief in your independent existence.

[32:43]

In other words, you're deluded. But because you've done some good things, a lot of good things actually, like you've practiced giving, you've generously given yourself, you've done an excellent job as Eno, from the deluded point of view. But the goodness of your work gives you access to the realm of... You get a taste of dependent core arising, which means you get a taste of the source of great compassion. And you feel deeply moved, but you have not yet done the practice called the perfection of wisdom. Therefore, it's just a taste, and the ongoing delusion has not really been touched. So you still hold the belief... And under some circumstances you could be pushed to do bad things based on that belief. But you can do good things while still holding that belief. It's not based on that belief necessarily. Although sometimes it's based on that belief you do good things. In other words, to protect yourself, you still do good things, and they're still good. And sometimes, even while holding your view of yourself and believing it, you do things which aren't selfish, which even endanger you, and they're even better.

[33:53]

But you still hold that belief. And as reward for these good things and good practices you do, you get access to great compassion. You feel it, you sense it, and you sense the realm from which it comes, and you feel really good. But you have not yet done the work of transforming your thinking such that it holds and becomes the established state, and you drop the holding to the belief of independent self. So it is possible to have that. And I think many people in this room have had some access to the ultimate reality. And that has come to them while, and they're still holding belief, they still have not realized perfection of wisdom. In other words, they don't have that feeling all the time. And they don't come from that place all the time. That is possible. So that's why you have to train. That's why you have to train, [...] train

[34:56]

And remember, and I say over and over again, the great sages say it's very hard to understand dependent core rising. I mean, to deeply understand it and have it be the state of affairs for you. It takes a lot of careful, difficult, subtle study. Study, study, study. It isn't just sit still. It isn't just be quiet. It's sit still, be quiet, and study quietly. Study what? Study the pinnacle of rising. And in the part of that study, you'll get occasional taps into the realm where you're trying to actually fully realize and still holding that. And faith, the question is, do you trust these teachings of the Buddha? and you'd see that these teachings of the Buddha on dependent core arising are actually the teachings of Buddha, and the teachings which aren't about dependent core arising are not the teachings of Buddha.

[36:02]

And if you're not clear about this, then, you know, I'd be happy to talk to you about it. If you think there's some other teachings of Buddha, show them to me. And if you can't find where Buddha teaches about dependent core arising, I'll show you. That's his teaching. That's what he's teaching. He went to a lot of trouble to talk about this. He said this over and over. It's the main teaching. And it's a teaching which not too many Buddhists want to study because it's so difficult. They want an easy practice or an anesthetic practice. This is a really challenging type of work. But there's no stories of any ancestors who didn't do this really hard work. And this kind of work is also challenging. Not only is it difficult, but it's difficult because you think you understand a little bit and then it all gets flipped around and you don't understand. You've got to start over all the time. You have to keep sort of, you know, that's part of what it's like to study this. It's very dynamic.

[37:04]

It surfaces your anxiety. But that's the point, is your anxiety is all around the thing you're supposed to be. Thanks. You know... I wish that I actually didn't have the sense of my separate self. I really do. Again, even the Buddha would not necessarily not have the sense of separate self, he just would see it as an illusion. You see, the Buddha would see, in enlightenment it isn't that you don't have a sense of a separate self, it's just that you see, it's just a show. You watch, everybody comes to the room and says, okay, ready? No Jordan here. And then everybody says, where's Jordan? Has anybody seen Jordan? And pretty soon you start to see Jordan too. Okay, well now I can understand that a little better. You say that again. Really, I mean it. Say it again. What did you just say?

[38:08]

Yeah, so it's not that the Buddha doesn't have a sense, like there's not the Shakyamuni Buddha is not walking around saying, you know, oh, there's Shakyamuni Buddha. Over across the room. No, Shakyamuni Buddha's in the room and suddenly he says, oh, there's Shakyamuni Buddha. But it isn't that he walks in the room with Shakyamuni Buddha. Shakyamuni Buddha comes in the room, sits down, and then suddenly Fu looks at him and he says, oh, Shakyamuni Buddha's here. Because she says, good morning, Buddha. He says, good morning. Who are you talking to? Oh, it's me. It's that thing, it's that thing, you know, that place where people look at and say Buddha. But before Fu says that, or before the room, you know, starts, you know, being a room, he doesn't carry Shakyamuni Buddha into the room. But then there's Shakyamuni Buddha, because we're all looking at him saying, oh, we're so glad you came, we never knew you would visit.

[39:11]

That's wonderful. Oh, Shakyamuni Buddha. Okay, so there's a lot of hands, geez. Okay, I don't know. John? Yeah. Did you get that, John? It's happening. You see this happening now? This is all things realizing John. Or, you know, about 80 things anyway. That's what my question is about. I want to compare two stories, or just tell two stories and have them on and off. There's one of them that there's a self that goes on. Can you just tell one story since there's so many hands raised? Well, there are two. Oh, they're interlocked. Okay. Okay, one story is that the self goes out and confirms experience, and this is the deluded view.

[40:16]

And then there's a turning, or enlightenment, and then that drops away. Here's another story. There's experience and perception and all of that, and then there's this retrospective attribution of self. Yeah, that's like the other way around. You know, that's like, there's, you know, like there's something happening, right? I don't know what, like I'm talking to you, right? But this is a story, I'm talking to him, and I'm going, my, my, my, and these sound waves, in the air it's getting these waves, okay, boom, boom, and then it hits his ear, and then as it hits his ear, it comes in these little patterns, and then these are interpreted as words, right? And then, because of the history, some kind of history, again, of how words have hit, how sound has hit the ear and words have been made, somehow this kind of sense of a, what do you call it, like a point of reference starts to be created for these words.

[41:24]

And this point of reference gets turned into like the subject of this process of hearing these words. And then this subject is turned into an objective object. Well, you see, the question... That's an example of how all things come forward, get converted in various ways, and suddenly the self is created. But even with that story, even with this story, where it seems like the self is going out from experience, would you want to say that all experience is infused... with that sense of self, or that it only kind of seems to be from the standpoint of that story of the self that's attributed retrospectively? I would say that in the story there may not be a self in the level of perception going on, but the belief, you know, if you ever want to check, you could check to see if the person, in the middle of whatever process is going on, you could just check. is there a belief of self there? And you'd find that there was, even if it might not be consciously activated in the story.

[42:26]

I was just wondering if it's not... For example, a person might be dancing, right? Yeah. And in the dance, there's no self. Right. They're so totally occupied in the concentration of the process, the self isn't functioning. Right. And they're not anxious or anything. They feel great. But if suddenly you do some slight change in the situation, like poke him, or say, bad dancer, suddenly... Because they would believe it was there the whole time, you know. Or you say, John, you know, instead of Ralph. Or say, John's your partner. Some little thing like that, and suddenly you find out, all along through this process of, looked like a parent liberating himself, it was being held all the time. Doesn't mean it's not good to dance and have a good time because, again, that's a wholesome activity when you get to be places like that, that you're so concentrated and so careful, so given. This is good. Belief is still held down below. Sometimes it's up on the surface and then you're consciously miserable. And you can't move, you know, you can't even dance. Because your self is like right up in your face, you know, and you're afraid that you're not going to dance right or something, so you don't even try.

[43:31]

That's like right up there, but even when it's not operating. But to say it's still there down below, does that mean it's there, or does it mean something, sometimes it's just a potential? It's not really there, like, you know, down there it's not really there, because that is not really a self, but there's a pattern such that when you touch it with the name John, it flares up and gets, you know, neurotic. So the action in between doesn't look like it's... I'll take it back. There's three levels. There's the level at which you're like, you've got a self and it's paralyzing you and you're depressed or whatever. There's a level, a conscious level, where there is consciousness and you are holding a sense of self. And there's a deeper level where the self is not being held. But there is a level where it's there because it's being held. It's not really... Even the holding there, the deeper conscious level... is an illusion. But it is being held as an illusion at a deeper level.

[44:33]

Even when it's not consciously objectively activated. And the person seems to be just fine. But you see, also what I'm asking is, even there where it's being held, whether... I mean, here's the story, which is that, OK, there's action, or there's experience. And then, in a kind of serial process, then this sense of self comes up. And part of the sense of self is to apply it retroactively to the experience that's become before. And to say, I did that. Yeah. And so then it seems that the whole thing becomes infused, but perhaps a more accurate description is that it's just this momentary idea that's saying, oh, I did that. Yeah, that's fine. It can happen that way. That story can happen. And if you study how that happens and see how that works, you'll see that that is an insubstantial story.

[45:37]

And you'll drop down And that would be a way for you to drop down. And even if you don't drop down, it will deepen your conviction in dependent core rising. And when your conviction is really strong, your thinking becomes intimate with perfect wisdom. Okay, I don't know who's next. I think Kevin has had it a long time ago. Yeah, I was wondering if you could tell a little story and tie together some of what went on. Okay. Like, you have, you know, I remember it was like this summer you did the self-fulfilling Samadhi workshop. Yeah, right. And we talked a lot about this next year. Right. Like, I'm already a teacher. I came up in the past couple months and co-armed that kind of thing. And it's like... But how much of, like, you know, you're Rev, and so, you know, when we bow to you, we come in. You know, we're acknowledging you.

[46:39]

We're giving you that space to exist as Rev. And Rev has these roles that we fill in the land, you know, in the conventional world. Yes. So is it an act of compassion to acknowledge that space. There's great compassion to acknowledge that space. You know what I'm saying? There's great compassion to any acknowledgement of that conventional reality. So can you acknowledge that, that you are the senior Dharma teacher here? Because of this, because of that, but just acknowledging that. position do you hold here is that well maybe I'm taking your question too simply but I feel like you're asking me can I acknowledge a phenomenal event and the answer is of course yes a phenomenal event of this illusory thing called a position called Dharma teacher

[47:56]

Can I acknowledge that? Yes, I mean, I should. And then we look at that and think about this phenomena. How did that happen? What does it depend on? What kind of a teacher is this? How do people relate to this teacher? What is this thing? So, like, we talked about having an appropriate response for each situation. Yes. If I ask you to go fly a helicopter over the North, you know, you can't. Yes. Are you a helicopter pilot? Right. Like, there's things that are outside of your ability in this reality. Yes. Where you have to have some kind of contained identity to exist here, to function in the real world, you know, in the conventional, perceptive world. Yes. You have to have an identity of self functioning.

[48:58]

So how can you drop that identity of self? How can you drop it? And still be, how is that compassion? Well, compassion is, compassion isn't really, what do you call it, the dropping of the identity or the holding on to the identity. Compassion is that you want yourself and others to understand this process you're describing and thereby be happy. and free of suffering, which come from not understanding this process. What I'm talking about here more is not so much compassion, but wisdom. Wisdom is how you work with this phenomena called the identity. Wisdom is the skillful way of working with an identity. And it's not skillful to throw the identity in a garbage can. Except, you know, once in a while it's probably kind of, you know, I don't know, maybe a few times in your life it might be good to throw your identity into a garbage can with witnesses.

[50:06]

But just, you know, generally speaking this wisdom is how do you take care of your identity in a skillful way? And the skillful way is to take care of it with awareness of how all things are coming forward to create this sense of identity. All things means all aspects of your psyche and all beings create this identity. If you see that, you see the wonder of your identity. You appreciate your identity as a child of the universe. At the same time, you see the insubstantiality and graspability of your identity, so you're free of it at the same time without damaging, as we say in the Self-fulfilling Samadhi, without moving a particle of dust of your identity, this wonderful world of dependent core arising is realized. And then great compassion comes from the skillful, wise way of handling your identity comes compassion, great compassion.

[51:09]

The person who understands herself and handles herself skillfully naturally is compassionate Because understanding yourself means you understand yourself as inseparable from all beings and totally indebted to all beings and totally in love with all beings. Then compassion comes from that understanding. Now compassion also helps you and supports you to develop that wisdom. You're not kind to yourself and hoping that you're going to understand this for the benefit of all beings. then it's going to be harder to do the work of studying this nasty situation. Alice? I was wondering when we actually get to studying, whether we do it in Zazen? It's best to do it all the time. And the way you do it in Zazen, of course, is you're in a different posture than other times.

[52:14]

Basically, you do it all the time, try to do it all the time, in all your postures. Walking, sitting, reclining, try to do it when you go to sleep, try to do it when you go awake. Matter of fact, it's very nice to do it just before you go to sleep. If I'm trying to understand this kind of work, I find it very helpful to do it just when I'm going to sleep, or at least shortly before saying goodnight to Rusa. And And then when I wake up in the morning, I often have a new understanding of this material. The sleep works out a lot of clinging that are making it hard for me to understand. So studying it all the time, and particularly before and after naps, is really good. If you're having trouble understanding this kind of teaching, study it hard and then take a nap and then study it again. Which I know a lot of you are doing already. That's good. But however, don't do the napping in the zendo. That's a party line.

[53:16]

But anyway, study all the time. And of course, that's pretty hard, so you work up to it. Okay? Miriam. Studying all the time, I would like to hear a little bit more about how one lives this. Is this watching or trying to catch the thoughts when they arise? Well, okay, so it's like, how do you do it? One way you do it is you, every single thing, every act of karma, okay, you're aware of every single thought, every single word, every single posture you're aware of, and you're aware of if you think you are doing it. In other words, is it karma? That's one way to do it. Just simply be very mindful of everything you do. But in that mindfulness, also notice, if you have a chance, is there a self there, is an identity who is the focal point of this function?

[54:20]

Is there a self there before the action? Is the action emerging from a previously held self? Is that the way you see it? And that will make you more careful of your actions, hopefully, more appreciative of your actions, body, speech and mind, but also start to bring into view this self. Now you'll notice other things then. For example, you'll notice anxiety and fear around it and so on. Keep and study that. What is the dependent core arising of the anxiety? What is the fear dependent on? What is the pain dependent on? Heiko? Yes. When you were talking about the technical element, I assumed that you mean that it is beginningless and that it… It is beginningless and endless. And if, just for a moment, I assume that infinity isn't infinite, did this all start with some big burst of something?

[55:25]

You tell me. You check it out. You realize dependent core rising and tell us how that applies. Okay? Rain? Could you talk about Shikantaza and how it relates to these two types of meditation you talked about? Well, I'd rather not throw Shikantaza into the garbage can, so what I say Shikantaza is is it is being upright, it is being still, And in that stillness, being open to the study of the self. I don't see Shikantaza as just sitting still with no thoughts in your mind. I see it as sitting still, and if thoughts arise, there is, you know, the openness to the awareness of how they arose, of their dependent core arising. And if thoughts cease, there is awareness of the dependent core arising, of their ceasing. If a thought of self arises, there is awareness

[56:28]

of the dependent core arising of that self. No, I'm not pointing it at thoughts and feelings, I'm pointing it at whatever's happening. In addition, I'm pointing to not just whatever is happening, but you must work with what's happening. Shikantaza starts here. It isn't that Shikantaza starts on somebody else's cushion. It starts on your cushion, with your body and your mind. And then whatever happens, but not just whatever happens, but also, one step further, please notice, I'll point, not at thoughts and feelings, but I will point at, please notice, just for a while anyway, and maybe this stops being Shikantaza, if it does, okay, then I don't want to practice Shikantaza anymore.

[57:36]

Please notice ultimate reality while you're at it. Please notice that whatever is happening, including the place you are and the time you're in, the time and space you're experiencing, that they dependently co-arise. Please notice, and noticing that the time and place that you live and yourself and everything, all phenomena dependently co-arise. Please notice that. In other words, please pay attention to the way things really are. Russ? To clarify something... Excuse me, I'll take it back. Please notice the way things are coming to be. Russ? Say, maybe the difference between someone that is understanding the common reality as opposed to somebody who understands medical arising would be how... one of these people that understands the common reality would see something, one of their actions being either good or bad, and running to the resist or the indulge side of like, wow, I did that well, or I did that not good.

[58:50]

And they would attribute that to themselves, where somebody that understood pedagogical arising would not necessarily be pushed in either of those directions because they would be... they would understand that it was not them, the independent self, that did it. What are the two directions that there wouldn't be pushed? Rejection or indulgence. Well, again, I think that's right, but what I would say is that not leaning towards rejection or indulgence is being upright. That's the mode of study of someone who studies dependent co-arising. But you could be in this upright state but still not understand dependent co-arising. You can realize this balanced state in relationship to phenomena. And that balanced state where you don't reject or indulge in phenomena, that's the gate to the study of the pentacle arising. So if you hang out at that gate long enough, maybe you could take a step... The door opens. That is the gate, the traditional gate to this study, is that kind of presence.

[59:51]

You can also walk through the door from being upright in more active situations. In other words, if you cook or serve other beings with this kind of balanced attitude, you get the gift of entrance into dependent core rising too. But in formal meditation, when you realize this balance where you're not really doing any works, that's the gate to this kind of vision. And there won't be any doubt of understanding, even if it's just the smallest piece of sand of identity of the pinnacle arising, the understanding. We won't have any doubt that we've experienced it, if we do experience it. If you experience what? A small taste of the pinnacle arising. Again, as I said before, the taste of dependent core arising is not a sensory experience. You do not experience it. You do not experience it. You do not experience it. It's not an experience. However, a taste may not be sufficient for you to have no doubt.

[60:59]

But a taste may be sufficient for you to have no doubt. In other words, no doubt means, I don't know what happened. But I have no doubt that that's the most important thing in my life. This is what I want my life to be about. I feel totally grateful for this event. It's more important than anything that's happened to me in my life. This is what I care about. This is what I want to devote my life to. This is my faith. But what it was is not a sensory experience. What we're really interested in is not a sensory experience like, you know, something you can grasp. We're interested in being intimate with something that you can't grasp. So that's why I'm talking about training your thinking so you gradually start to think about what you can't grasp. You're thinking about, you can't grasp dependent co-arising. There won't be any you that can go down there and get it. But yet, your life can attain this. And when you attain it fully, you'll have no doubt. Even a little bit of attaining, you might have no doubt.

[62:02]

But it's not an experience. You can experience the gratitude you feel from it. But what it is, it's all the more wonderful that it can't be packaged and boxed and, you know, grabbed. That's what's so wonderful about it. It's not out there. What we really are is this. The condition of being a sentient being is exactly this dependent core arising. But although it is what we are, we can't experience it or grab it. But when we attain it or realize it, we feel very good and very happy. And you can make it an object, but that's just a kind of unfortunate little thing you did, if you do. But, you know, it still doesn't kill it. Eric? Question. We were talking about stories, and it seems to me that in this practice it's very valuable to make a distinction between different kinds of stories.

[63:05]

Because in sitting, I'm mostly thinking about how we keep this practice within the context of sitting. How a story arrives at, you know, pride or an emotional event or whatever, and that is a story, but the human subject complied to it. But then there's another story you can tell, which is a critical story. How does that arise? How does that happen? Right. The critical story is more like the story of study. Right. And that seems to be, it's almost more like a science story. Science tells stories. Yeah, right. It's almost like it's scientific or artistic. You're going to the root of the story. So we're all doing stories all the time. That's how we have experiences. We'd have no experiences, there's no things without stories. So what I'm proposing here, in order to train yourself in wisdom, is to develop another story called training yourself in wisdom, which means you're critical. Critical also means, the root of critical is to choose. You choose to study how this thing happens. You don't just have things happen.

[64:07]

Okay, this happened, that happened, I like this, I don't like that. You choose how you're going to experience these things. I'm going to experience these, everything that happens, I'm going to choose as study opportunity. I'm going to always look to how does this happen? My question is with regard to this intention, because there's intention in what the process you just described. Yeah, there's the intention to study Buddhist teaching. But that intention, is it an extremely arduous task at this point to turn the critical reflection upon the source of that mutation? I notice for a lot of people it's really hard. That's why we have this practice period, and that's why we're working so hard to help each other, because we need help to do this. It is hard. It is extremely arduous, yes. Sometimes, some days it's not as hard as others, but, you know, it is hard to change this deep habit of just uncritical acceptance of our delusion and suffering as a result to shift to, like, critically studying

[65:17]

what's happening, how it's happening, and train ourselves. That is a big, difficult change. That's not exactly what I meant. Oh, too bad. It looked like it wasn't what you meant. It's not. No, what I'm talking about is we're building or polishing the intention to study with critical awareness and equalizing it. Yeah, which is also building or polishing your story about studying. Right. Well, that's what I'm saying. At what point do you turn the process against the intended, the one who's making the submission? At what point? Yeah. As often as possible. There's another opportunity there. Okay. Food. I'm trying to understand about the story. Like, does it matter if it's a valid story or if it's speculative, wildly speculative, or is it... It matters whether it's valid or not.

[66:18]

But invalid stories are perfectly fine stories, it's just that they're invalid. And you should be able to tell what a valid story and what an invalid story is. So you need the criteria for a valid story. Yeah, part of... Conventional criteria. Yeah, you should have an understanding for what you mean by validity. Validity should be an issue in your life because it is an issue in your life. A normal human being has criteria of validity by which you determine which, you know, is that Sabrina or not. Is that a valid perception of Sabrina or invalid? So you are operating in a valid, validity, invalidity world, and that should be part of what you use here. But invalid stories are fine, it's just that they don't conventionally exist. They're just imaginations. You should be able to tell which are which. That's part of your work and your training. So checking it out with other people seems pretty critical. Yeah, right. That's part of it. And especially in these realms which are...

[67:20]

you know, the well-known aspect of it, you know, who knows, who understands it and so on, is a smaller group of people. So, part of what you need in order to establish this is, you know, Dharma friends. John? It seems to me that Whenever we talk about the chemical rising, we talk about being, you, they, in other words, human beings. Yes. And that's made the whole study very closed and hard for me to grasp, you know, because it leaves out the land and the tree and all fields and the earth. Uh-huh. When I look at those things all together, man, you, and all others. Yes. That makes the whole concept a little bit easier for me to start getting a little... Uh-huh. Okay, no problem.

[68:22]

It's okay. Whatever, however you want, the question is, how do you see it? And then see it that way, and move on to another way. Kathleen? I have a question about the process of observation. There's an issue of quietism in Zen. Right, there's an issue of quietism in Zen, which is this practice of jhana. This is what I've been told. My realization is that at times I'll get so quiet or I don't know that my attention does not remain active all the time. You don't know if what intention does not remain active all the time. It's kind of like being drunk. Uh-huh. Where you're so concentrated that you're not paying the kind of precise attention that's necessary to observe the rising and falling of objects.

[69:33]

Uh-huh. And I guess what I'm asking you is... I don't know exactly how you avoid it, because it seems to be something that comes up, but it's also really hard to recognize when you're in it. So what action won't take in this really place? I'll go see a teacher. And if you're so drunk you can't tell whether you're seeing a teacher or not, well, then maybe have arrangement with a teacher, where a teacher will come and get you if he hasn't seen you for a while. Because somebody might sit in meditation in the zendo and not realize that several days have gone by and they haven't talked to the teacher. But basically go to the teacher and show the teacher your stupor. Your stupor. Show your teacher that you've entered into kind of like a deep trance and you're no longer aware of the environment. And the teacher will say, hello, hi.

[70:36]

And the teacher maybe can snap you out of your trance. Sounds like a trance, yeah. Now, it is possible, it can happen, that you enter a trance. Trance is a wholesome place to be. You're not causing much trouble. You're out of touch with, you know, Buddha's wisdom, in a sense, because you're just, like, totally closed down. And you're still holding on to your sense of self, which can be shown by, as soon as you get snapped out of the trance, you snap at somebody. But anyway, you're still a selfish person who's like on a nice vacation. In a case like that, but it's a wholesome vacation, so when you come out of it, so right in the vacation you could suddenly have a little space and the trance could open up and suddenly Buddha's compassion comes flashing in and you burst into a state of rapturous gratitude for life under these present circumstances. It can happen to you, even in a trance. the results of your good actions can bust through this obsessive situation you're in and give you a taste of something which is much more wonderful than just being calm.

[71:48]

That can happen. Which is nice. That does not tend to the perfection of listening, I guess. Well, it might be a big encouragement to you. You might say, boy, that was great. And then you say, oh, yeah. And then you go tell the teacher, and the teacher says, well, good. Now what are you going to do about that? You want to, like, develop some intimacy with that realm that you think was so great? And you say, yeah. I say, well, now we start training. I haven't found it great, actually. You haven't found what? I haven't found it great, but okay. You haven't found what great? Great. No, I'm not talking about the trance isn't great. No, no. That's not great. What's great is the world of dependent core rising is great. And if you practice trance, trance is a wholesome activity. Practicing trance is as good a way, is as good a thing to do for the world as sweeping the deck out here. so it would be clean for people to put their shoes out, or straightening other people's shoes. Trance is a really good thing to do. You get a big reward for trance, and one of the rewards you can get is a spiritual opportunity, namely a peek at the world of reality.

[72:56]

You might get a little peek for it. You can actually have insight into reality from practices like trance, or like giving. You can be giving somebody a gift, and your eyes can open, and you can see reality. That's what's wonderful. Reality is what's really great. And it can happen while you're giving or like in a trance. But in order to like change the source of the blockage from reality, we have to change the way we think. It's our thinking that's the source of the problems. We have to transform our thinking into wisdom. Once that happens, then the giving and the other stuff will come very nicely. Doesn't mean you should wait for that stuff, because you do that stuff too. Without that stuff, your chances for practicing wisdom will be reduced. So giving and concentration can give you more chances to practice wisdom. But wisdom is what gets down there and changes your actual way you understand the world.

[73:56]

So you need both of them together, basically. And I think I'm happy, pretty happy, mostly, with the way people are practicing giving around Zen Center. The conscientiousness is not so good. Enthusiasm is sometimes good, sometimes not. Patience is kind of like, I would say, C minus. Concentration is like maybe C plus or B minus. Giving is really good, though, here. And conscientious, I would say, is maybe a B. Not too good. And perfection of wisdom is like, you know, I can't really grade. We haven't had a test yet. But it's not very strong here at Zen Center, even though people say, you know, Zen emphasizes wisdom. I don't think so so much. I think Zen Centers are actually into the trance too much, even though people aren't that good at it. That's sort of what they're emphasizing. But the wisdom I think we need to work more on, and all the other ones too.

[75:06]

But giving is a strong one, I think, here. I think people are very giving here, and that's really great. And because of that, because you are so giving and generous, you are, you know, grateful and happy. You have some access to reality because you're so generous. But your basic belief in yourself, as some people are willing to admit, hasn't really been wiggled much. It's still like, you know, Mount Sumeru, basically. You know, it's getting late. I really appreciate your enthusiasm and your questions, but I think the kitchen has to cook lunch, right? And I'd like the kitchen to stay for the class. It's really nice that they can stay this long. I appreciate you doing that. But in order for them to stay, we have to stop. And so you can have another poll today about whether you want another class tomorrow or whether you want Zazen through the morning. If you want another class, you can do another class. And if you don't want a class tomorrow, it's also possible to have a shorter class as an alternative or an addition during study hall tomorrow night.

[76:13]

I'd like to go over these texts that you're going to use, these little texts to explain to you a little bit about how to study them. Sorry I couldn't deal with all your questions. Again, please write them down. That does help me. May I call your attention?

[76:34]

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