The Eightfold Path is, as you've heard, spoken of in terms of right view, right thinking, right speech, and so on. And also there were wrong view, wrong thinking, wrong speech, wrong action, these also come up. And some people have come to Zen as kind of refugees from the painful world of right and wrong, the painful world of good and evil. True and false. And practiced Zen happily for some number of years until this practice period, when

[01:08]

they got exposed again to true and false, right and wrong, good and evil. In just a few more days it will all be over and you can go back to your non-dual practice good and evil, beyond right and wrong. When the universe is one, there is no right and wrong, or good and bad, but as soon as there's two, then there is right and wrong, good and evil, true and false. When all duality drops away, so do all those dualities.

[02:13]

Being upright in the midst of all these dualities is the Eightfold Path, which leads to and realizes freedom from all duality. Freedom from all separation and discriminations between true and false. And this uprightness in the midst of the world of duality is also the door to the playground of creation, where the Eightfold Path is always available, right here. Using interdependence as part of our study of the Eightfold Path, one can approach each

[03:30]

of the Eightfold Practices as Eightfold. In other words, think of each one in terms of the other seven, in addition to its own way. When you can see the interdependence of each one of these practices, each of them loses their independent special quality, loses their inherent nature. And therefore, because none of these practices have an inherent nature, they're available all the time, all of them. You can practice them all the time, all of them. One time somebody asked Suzuki Roshi, how come we have seven-day sesshis?

[04:32]

He said, because we go one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. So now we have the fourth of the Eightfold Path, which is called a Right Action. In Sanskrit, it's called samakamantah. In Sanskrit, I think it's called samyakamantah. I'm not sure. Anyway, it looks like it means right karma, right action. And again, speaking of karma, now that I'm on the topic,

[05:40]

the laws of karma are not proposed as ultimately true. They are conventionally true. They are true in the world of duality. They only hold in the dualistic world of samsaric misery. They're the road map about how to get around in misery land. They're not exactly the road out of misery land, because all roads lead back into misery land in misery land. There's no roads out. They all circle back into pain. But by studying the roads, studying the road map, studying the laws, one becomes

[06:43]

relieved of the pain. Not relieved of the laws, relieved of the pain that the laws tell you about. They are the laws, the laws of karma are the laws of how things work in the illusory world of me and you, existing independent of each other. They tell how things go when we really fall for that business about being separate. The laws of karma are not about when we don't fall for that. They're not about what it's like when we don't believe in our separation. These laws are true in the duality. They are not true in non-duality. They are not true in the dharma world.

[07:50]

Where there is no coming or going, birth and death. However, we must accept these laws of conventional truth of samsaric karma in order to enter the world of dharma. There's no record of anybody who rejects these laws, who got into dharma land and got to really like work out there. People get peaks maybe, but the peaks I shouldn't even mention because they come the same way. Another thing I'd like to mention about karma is that when you talk about when you consider thinking as karma, then thinking is the source of karma. When you speak, when you consider speech as karma, speech is karma as self-nature.

[08:56]

When you talk about body as karma, body is karma as support. And I've talked already quite a bit about how thinking is like the definition of karma and how vocal and physical karma originate from thinking. But the Abhidharmakosha mentions that speech as karma, speech is the one which is karma by its nature. And that's a statement which one day I understood that and I can't remember what I understood. But I tried to think now, how is it different from body and thought? Thought can exist, thinking can exist. Can it exist without itself being like of its nature action?

[10:06]

Maybe so. The body can be present, can exist without actually manifesting karma. Without being action. The body needs to be hooked in with volition, cooked in with thinking in order to be karma. But speech never can exist without being hooked in with speech. Speech always comes with thinking. So speech only can exist as karma. Now again, back to these actually three aspects, right speech, right action and right livelihood.

[11:16]

These are the ethical section of the Eightfold Path. I've just written this book, sort of written this book, which is between four and five hundred pages long on the precepts. And so now we're talking about these three precepts, these three things which are about which I've written this book about, so what am I going to say, right? I feel like I can't even like scratch the surface. But one thing I wanted to say was that in treating these precepts, I treated each, all the precepts in three ways, from the conventional truth, the dualistic truth, the truth of karma, the compassionate perspective and the ultimate perspective. So these three aspects of the Eightfold Path can also be dealt with as conventional

[12:19]

karma, as in terms of compassion and from the ultimate perspective of nirvana. You can look at right action in terms of, literally it means right karma, as a karmic thing, as a dualistic function. And have that dualistic function go in the right way, wholesome karma. You can also think of it in terms of compassion. In other words, that you might under some circumstances do something, go against the conventional rule, the conventional dualistic literal meaning of the precepts in order to benefit beings. And according to the Bodhisattva's compassionate vows, the Bodhisattva is committed to do whatever is most beneficial, even if it goes against conventional meaning of these ethical precepts. And the ultimate meaning is the way the precept or the way these ethics appear and are practiced

[13:28]

out of nirvana, out of right view when it's fully realized. Now, I may go back and forth between these perspectives and not tell you when I switch. So if I switch and you feel a switch and you're not sure if I did switch, you can check. But I'm going to start with the conventional perspective. Conventionally, again, this precept deals with the body. The first one deals with the voice, vocal karma. Right speech deals with vocal karma. This deals with physical karma, and right livelihood deals with vocal and physical karma. So this one is particularly emphasizing bodily karma from the conventional perspective.

[14:29]

From the ultimate perspective, this right effort is speaking of bodily freedom from karma. It's talking about what kind of body you have when you're free of karma. That's a happy body. It's called the happy body. The body which does wholesome karma is a happier body than the body which does unwholesome karma, but it's still not so happy. It's still got those dualistic pains. You know about those dualistic pains? Those are the regular ones. And then there's the compassionate pains, and then there's the no pain of the body beyond karma.

[15:38]

Okay. So the physical actions which are particularly highlighted here are killing, stealing and unlawful sexual intercourse. Unwholesome, inappropriate sexual intercourse. Killing period and stealing period. So what can I say about these things today? If you're in the sewer of selfish concern, then what this precept means is do not kill.

[16:46]

Don't do that kind of karma. Don't do it. You who think you can do something, don't do it. Do not steal and do not have any sex unless it's legal. And you can check with your local law enforcement officer to see if it's legal. We have not clearly established who our local law enforcement official is, but maybe we should. It's not that I like the work, but if chosen, I will do my best to fulfill my responsibility. I've had quite a few conversations about this already.

[17:47]

When someone gets ordained as a priest and I'm the person who's supposed to supervise their training, in that case, I am the specified or designated law enforcement official. I am a sexual behavior for that person. They're supposed to talk to me prior to any sexual karma. I just saw the look on a priest's face as though she didn't know that. Well, now you all know. So what can I say about these? Actually, I would say the same too. If I was training somebody that they probably should talk to me before they would kill anything or steal anything, that would be a good idea. But as a result of that conversation, maybe there would be no action taken in terms of killing and stealing, unless it was really beneficial.

[19:00]

Like I was saying yesterday to Roberta, if lying, if your boss asks you to lie, and it really does help your boss, and it really does help the person you're lying to, it's really beneficial to everybody but you as a bodhisattva, lying is what should be done. Now, it would be a good idea to get completely enlightened as soon as possible, so that if someone asks you to lie, you could do something even more beneficial than that, and then you wouldn't have to lie. So, basically, you know, I'm sort of in a, what do you call it, I basically don't feel like I can talk about much more about killing, stealing, and sexual

[20:01]

misconduct, because there's not time to even touch upon them really, except in the realm of karma, don't. That's conventional truth. And if you have any questions about it, like I say, check with somebody who can help you figure it out, who'd like to help you figure out whether it perhaps, this action which might be killing, might be stealing, or might be sexual misconduct, is in fact inappropriate. And again, with that person, or persons you could have a committee to, with that person or persons, consider whether this action is right in terms of, is there any deception? Is there any false speech? Any wrong speech? Is there any wrong view? Are you looking at the Four Noble Truths intensely? Is there any wrong thinking? Or put it positively, is there right

[21:04]

thinking going on now? Is there right view? Is there right speech? Is there right livelihood? Is there right effort? Is there right mindfulness? Is there right concentration? Are all those things happening? Are all those things involved here in terms of this physical action? Well, that's a good sign, if it is. It is possible to refrain from, or abstain from, killing, stealing, and sexual misconduct, even without a fully developed right view. However, if you do abstain, you have some right view. Even if you've never heard of right view,

[22:09]

you have some right view in that. Because you're practicing the Fourth Noble Truth. You're meditating on the Four Noble Truths, whether you know it or not, you're actually practicing the Four Noble Truths if you abstain from these practices of killing, stealing, and so on. On the other hand, if you do have right view, and you do have right thinking, and you do have right speech, then, fortunately, you will abstain from killing, living things, stealing, and sexual misconduct. That abstinence associated with right view, and so on, naturally cuts off wrong action. And the action which comes forth, cutting off wrong action by right view, and so on, is right action, right body gesture, right use of the body. So, as you use your body,

[23:13]

arms and legs, moving it around, sitting it down, lifting it up as you use it, is there right view there? Is this activity of sitting right now, is this sitting you're doing, conjoined with an expression of meditating on Four Noble Truths? Right view. And vice versa. Does your work with your body movements, the things you do with your body, does that help you look at the Four Noble Truths? Do you use your bodily movements as a way to look at

[24:19]

your thinking? Because these movements come from your thinking, do you use the movements then to look at your thinking? So, these ethical practices, in their conventional aspect, they are preparations or the ground for wisdom. In their ultimate meaning, they are the fruit of wisdom. When you have wisdom, you naturally are in accord with the way things are, and when you're in accord with the way things are, when you see with your eye of wisdom the way things are, you naturally practice right action and right speech and right livelihood. If you practice right speech and right livelihood but do not yet have right vision, these practices bring up and surface your self-clinging. They show you,

[25:20]

as you think of killing or you restrain yourself from killing, as you think of stealing or you restrain yourself or abstain from stealing, in this kind of interaction your self-concern becomes highlighted. Well, abstain from unlawful sexuality? Well, what about me? What's going to happen to my sex life? I mean, it's hard enough to have a sex life without thinking about it. Now, you're asking me to consider whether it's appropriate? That's going to really mess it up. No, it's not going to be good for me. Yeah, but it'll be good for everybody else. Get you out of action. Reduce the population. Yeah, but what about me? Yeah, what about you? What about you?

[26:25]

How about this person? So, these practices of considering your physical activity turn you around and look at the one who's being cherished, which is the second noble truth, the cherishing of this one, making sure this one does enough killing and stealing and so on to get by. But not in dogging in these things, rather restraining them not just to stop them, which is good, but as a way to surface the clinging, surface the cherishing, surface the attachment to self-concern. And in the midst of doing the work of restraining killing, inconveniently not killing this mosquito, or inconveniently covering your body entirely so that mosquitoes won't hurt you,

[27:31]

in all these kinds of negotiations, there's a, well, kind of uncomfortable having to worry about killing things all the time is not that pleasant for most people. I don't really enjoy it. It's a kind of trouble, but I'm willing to take the trouble. And taking the trouble, the trouble, the pain surfaces the clinging. The discomfort in this kind of carefulness with your conduct shows you right where the clinging is. Clinging is right at the pain. The place of difficulty of being careful about your conduct is the place where the self is stuck. Now, if it's easy to be careful about killing, fine. But where is it difficult? The easy part's fine, but the difficult part is meditating on the truth of suffering. The difficult part about being careful

[28:33]

of what you say and what you do and how you make a living. The trouble of how you make a living, the trouble spot is the place where you meditate on the first and second truth. That's the samsara point. That's the place where you do karma. The place of doing karma is a place where self does it and there's pain there. So, being very careful and taking the trouble for everything you do, that trouble being developing patience with that trouble is the way to meditate on the Four Noble Truths. You're practicing the fourth by looking at the first two. So,

[29:53]

now I'm going to go into a realm which I don't know. The conventional perspective, the compassionate or the ultimate? Maybe you do. But it has to do with looking at what our ancestor A.K. Dogen Daisho said about right action. And we have two translations of this discussion so far. There's some other ones coming out soon. Maybe they'll help. And this discussion of right action appears in a fascicle of the Shobo Genzo called the 37 Factors or Wings of Enlightenment. And 8 of the 37 are the Eightfold Path. So, he starts with the first one, right view.

[31:02]

And he does a short paragraph on right view. Then he does a short paragraph on right thinking, a short paragraph on right speech. And then something happens. And suddenly he does several pages, real long pages, intense pages on right action. Then he does one short paragraph on right livelihood, one short paragraph on right effort, one short paragraph on right mindfulness, and one short paragraph on right concentration. He got kind of like worked up on this right action one. And you might too when you hear what he has to say. Now, I told you before, sometimes I'm reading, I'm studying certain texts and I hit certain sections when I'm reading them and I think, don't tell them about this part because they might give rise to, they might get

[32:04]

perplexed. And sometimes when I'm reading the text of myself, I feel like that too. I have certain feelings, certain things come to my mind, don't tell them you're thinking that. The Buddha, when in the Lotus Sutra, the Buddha was asked to give a talk, he just came out of Samadhi, he was in a Samadhi, he came out and people said, excuse me, your blessed one, would you please give us a talk? And he said, I'm not, the way where I'm at right now would not be good to tell you how things are for me now. You would become very perplexed and you give rise to doubts and maybe reject the Dharma. So I'm not going to do it. And they said, oh, please, we won't, we'll be good, we'll listen, we won't run away, we won't reject it, we'll accept it, we won't get jealous, we won't get envious, we won't put it, you know, we'll be good. No, no, no, this is really,

[33:07]

what I have to say is not what you're used to hearing about. This is like not your idea of reality. This is like, you know, an opposite of what you think is true. It's going to like, it's going to like disorient you, perplex you, and I don't want you to reject this. So maybe later. No, please, we'll, you know, we'll be good, we'll listen, we won't get scared, we'll stay in our seats. So anyway, after three times he says, okay. And then he gives a talk and 5,000 people walked out. And then he said, you know, something which you could, I guess, interpret as, I don't know what, sour grapes. He says, well, it's better that they left. But they left before he said a word. They said, you know, they kind of said, he read their mind somehow, by their feet, I guess. And he said, well, they were thinking,

[34:11]

oh, Shakyamuni is going to do one of his trips again, so let's just leave. I remember the last time he talked like this, what that was about. We heard this before. So they went and had brunch. Huge brunch. And quite a few people stayed though, so he gave this talk. And so, I better not tell you about this. I told you where it is. If you want to go read it, you can go read it, but I'm not going to tell you about it. You don't want to hear this. This is too upsetting. What? What did you say? Now, what happens if some doubt might arise in you? You vowed to, when you hear the true Dharma, you're not going to have doubt, right? No doubt will arise. What are you going to do with that doubt? What are you going to do if some doubt or perplexity arises? What are you going to do? Reveal and disclose it. As what? As what? Doubt.

[35:19]

Okay, so here it is. It starts out not too bad. Right action is practicing the way, after renouncing the world, and attaining enlightenment after entering the monastery. So you're all safe, right? Because you renounced the world, didn't you? And you attained enlightenment and entered the monastery, didn't you? That's not so bad. You know, the ceremony for getting ordained as a monk in Zen is called tokudo. It's called zaikei tokudo, leaving the world and attaining enlightenment, attaining the way. That's what a monk's initiation is. So it means you get ordained as a monk and you go to the monastery. That's right action.

[36:28]

Right action is that we train ourselves and attain enlightenment in mountains and rivers. Shakyamuni Buddha said that the 37 aspects of enlightenment are the actions of monks. So again, you're okay now. But what happens when you leave Tassajara? That's not so bad. You're just not practicing right action, that's all. Don't worry. Practicing right action is practicing as monks. Practicing as monks means you practice the traditional ways of the monastery. It means you renounce your selfish concerns and join the program. What you're doing, no problem. But what happens when you leave

[37:40]

Tassajara? And there's no program to practice and thereby renouncing your selfish concerns. The monk's actions are neither Mahayana or Hinayana. If you have not yet renounced the world, you will never be able to inherit and transmit right action and the great way of the Buddha ancestors. Now in there is some stuff I really don't dare say. But partly because it just takes too long. But anyway, he really gets carried away there. Even during the lifetime of Shakyamuni, no lay person attained the way. A lay person's house is not a place where the way can be studied. There are too many obstacles. Now there are lay people in the actual life of Buddha.

[38:53]

The first person Buddha enlightened was a lay person. Of course, the first person Buddha enlightened was a lay person because there were no monks yet. He hadn't ordained anybody yet. The first person that was enlightened, somebody walked up to him and he gave the guy a little dharma pen, a little dharma zap. The guy woke up without leaving the world. But although he woke up, he did not inherit and transmit the dharma of the Buddha's ancestors. He woke up though. Laman Pong, you know him? He's pretty good. He took all his stuff, put it on a boat and sunk the boat. He had a fabulous little household, wife, his son and his daughter. I mean, they were far out. You know about him, Laman Pong? Laman Pong studied with Matsu and Sakito, Shorto. Studied with our ancestor, Shorto, and with Matsu, the two main disciples that transmit

[40:00]

all of Zen schools. He studied with both of them. Enlightened was Shorto. He was enlightened and he did not inherit and transmit the dharma. No disciples. But Dogen says, yeah, he could say, I studied a little, which is a modest way to say, I have awakened. But that's it. That's what he's saying. The inheritance part is right action. How are you going to practice right action? In order to practice right action, what did I just tell you you need? What do you need? You need to renounce the world and then as part of renouncing the world, what do you need? You need enlightenment in the monastery. And in the monastery, what do you have in the monastery? What? You have a schedule. You have law enforcement officials also, by the way. Don't forget them. Now, they don't necessarily track you down and say, you know, you think this is right action? You know, we don't do that in

[41:00]

America. This is the time of abuse. We don't do that. We're nice. You go to the law enforcement official and you say, I think this is right action. And the law enforcement official says, oh really? Oh, that's interesting. Whatever, you know. That's what it takes, according to Dogen. You can't, I can't practice right action just by, okay, okay, I'm going to practice right action. Right action, inheriting the dharma is not just waking up, it's practicing it. It's receiving it and putting it into effect and transmitting it to other people. It's converting other beings. It's transmitting and getting other people to do the practice so they can become free. That's the Buddha ancestor way. It's not just like, I woke up. That's good. It's waking up and then going into training. Tokudo, attaining the way and then start training. Become enlightened and then train. And not just sort of like your own training program, in the monastery. That's what he's saying.

[42:00]

You know the story of, what's his name? The sixth ancestor, Daikon Eno, Dogen Hoenon. He was like a layperson, right? He was shuffling around in the marketplace of Canton selling firewood in the market. He walked by a little booth. They had these little booths, right? Selling various things. And some of the booths had monks in them, lay people chanting Buddhist scriptures. That was their, you know, kind of like, but you know, the little side shows in the market, people chanting Buddhist scriptures. You'd probably give them some coins or give them a banana or something. Anyway, he walked by somebody who was chanting the Diamond Sutra. And when he heard section 10c, he woke up. He woke up. He was enlightened in the market. The firewood carrier was enlightened. He was enlightened. And he said to the person in the booth, hey, where can I learn more about this? The guy says, well, you probably should go study

[43:07]

one of the law officials who teaches this stuff. Way up north, there's a guy who really knows a lot about this scripture. His name is Hung Ren. So he decided, he left his mother and went north to study more about this Dharma which he was enlightened about. He went to the monastery. On his way, he met a nun and they had a little talk. And the nun said, oh my God, this guy's enlightened. Would you give a little talk? I have a little sitting group here. Would you give a little talk to my sitting group? And he said, okay. So he gave a talk and people said, wow, this is fantastic. And they told their friend. And pretty soon he had a congregation of about a thousand people, this young guy, on his way to the monastery. And here he was with his big group and finally he realized, wait a minute, I was in a monastery. I'm enlightened, yeah, but I was going to go

[44:07]

find out more about this enlightenment business and learn about right action. So he left his group, said bye-bye and went, continued north and met the sixth, the fifth ancestor. But he was a monk. He was entertaining with the right spending equipment in the traditional way. And the teacher came and they met and he got his law enforcement credentials. He became the sixth ancestor of Zen in that lineage. He became enlightened, entered the monastery and then inherited Dharma. And as you may have noticed, he transmitted it too, mainly Zen. That's what he transmitted. That's what made the difference. When you inherit the Dharma, you can change a country. What came from him became, after certain suppressions, that was Buddhism. That's what

[45:07]

happens. It's more than just awakening in the marketplace. It is receiving and transmitting and we need some support. It's not that lay people aren't enlightened. It's not that they're not trying. It's just that they don't have enough support. How are they going to create the support? They have to make a monastery. I'm just channeling this, okay? This is not me talking. With the aid of a few notes. So

[46:29]

learn from this story about the sixth ancestor, that when we possess the Buddha Dharma in our body and mind, we cannot remain lay people. All the Buddha ancestors have experienced the same thing. To think that it is not necessary to renounce the world is a graver sin than the five deadly sins. And then again, dot, dot, dot, I'm not going to tell you the other stuff. Shakyamuni Buddha said, renouncing the world and receiving the precepts is the seed of Buddhahood. When we do a priest's ordination at Zen Center, the first thing in the ceremony is renunciation. Cut the hair. When we do lay ordination at Zen Center, we don't cut the hair. But in the regular Soto Zen manual for lay ordination, which is again, the name of the priest's ordination is leaving home and attaining the way. The first step is cut the hair. The lay

[47:33]

ordination is staying at home and attaining the way. But even in that ceremony there is a head cutting gesture, I mean a head shaving gesture. They don't actually cut the head or cut the hair, but they make a gesture of cutting the hair in the ceremony for lay people. So, in my little manual for lay initiation, for Bodhisattva initiation, I put the renunciation back in the ceremony. Renouncing the world and receiving the precepts is the seed of Buddhahood. Such people are monks. We should know, this is what Buddha said, we should know that this kind of ordination equals renunciation. Attaining Buddhahood means to become monks. Those who

[48:35]

have not yet renounced the world are just floating through life. Sorry to say those who remain in a state of not renouncing the world are in delusion. In Shakyamuni's teaching, there are many examples of describing the virtues of renouncing the world. Even if a monk breaks the precepts and does not practice, he can still attain the way. But lay people can never do that. Emperors prostrate themselves before monks and nuns, but the monks and nuns do not return the prostration. Such things come about because of the superior merit of renouncing the world. If monks and nuns who renounce the world prostrate themselves even before divine beings,

[49:39]

then the divine light loses its brilliance and good fortune will end. All virtue will be lost. Vast numbers of those who renounce the world have attained the way, but no lay person, no person who has not renounced the world, has attained the way. This happens because if someone sees or hears the Buddha Dharma, this person will quickly renounce the world. Anyone who equates a lay person's mind with the Buddha's and ancestors has not seen or heard Buddha Dharma. Some Zen teachers in China equated the mind and body of the Buddha's ancestors with the

[50:42]

mind and body of the emperors. The emperors were very happy to hear about this and made some big donations. However, if Buddha Dharma is supreme, only if a lay person's mind is actually the same as that of a Buddha ancestor. Anyone who equates a lay person's mind and body with the Buddha ancestors has not seen or heard Buddha Dharma. However, the Buddha Dharma is supreme only if a lay

[51:44]

person's mind is actually the same as that of a Buddha ancestor. Then the body and mind of the Buddha ancestor becomes the body and mind of the lay person. If that happens, the lay person no longer exists. It sounds like it doesn't. Even if the mind of emperors or other lay persons, non-renunciants, is eventually one with the body and mind of Buddha ancestors, when the latter naturally becomes the former, it cannot be the former. To say that lay people, the non-renunciants, to equate the body and mind of a non-renunciant with a renunciant, according to Dogen, one who does that has not heard Buddha Dharma. However, it must also be the case if Buddhism is really supremely excellent, that eventually the body and mind of

[52:51]

the Buddha ancestor and the lay person are actually the same. However, when the Buddha ancestor's mind becomes the lay person's mind, the lay person no longer exists because the lay person naturally renounces the world. Right action should be a monk's work. Scholars of the Abhidharma and the scriptures do not know this. The work of monks is to practice in the monastery, to make prostrations, to sit upright in the hall, to wash the face in the lavatory, to make gassho and bowing, to offer incense, to boil water, to prepare tea and rice. This is right action. Not only does this change the head into a tail, but the head changes into a head, the mind changes into the mind,

[53:57]

Buddha changes into Buddha, and the way changes into the way. This is right action. Now, we could say, well, the Dogen Zenji wrote this right after he went to Echi Zen and started Eiheiji, so he was just trying to like make people, the monks, really feel like being a monk was really important. He was trying to inspire them to be monks and make sure they didn't run away. But that's not quite the point because once you're a monk, once you've renounced the world, even if you run away from the monastery, it's still done. You still have renounced the world unless you take back your renunciation.

[55:00]

It's not good to, you know, not practice and be a bad monk, but a bad monk can still attain the way. But somebody who doesn't renounce the world, according to this, cannot attain the way. Now, I've heard that there's another school of Buddhism that has an out for you, and for me too, called the Vajrayana. You don't have to renounce the world. No, it's not Tibetan, but the Tibetans practice it. Also in Japan they have Vajrayana, Shingon. But in Mahayana, and the Zen school is a Mahayana school, we also have a kind of Vajrayana in Zen too, so maybe it's not really necessary. But Dogen Zenji, at this phase in his life, seems to have felt the necessity of renunciation. So here's another issue for you to munch on here at the

[56:07]

end of the practice period. And I mentioned this before, and that is, you know, in dealing with the first pure precept of forms, you know, rules and ceremonies. This first pure precept is the realm of the Dharmakaya, where we practice selflessness by aligning ourselves with the tradition, and practicing with other people who can help us, you know, identify and clarify our alignment. So it isn't just ourselves that are determining whether we're in alignment or not. So John wants to know, you know, wants to see an arhat. Somebody else might say, well, now I want to see a renunciate. Who, with a real renunciate, please stand up.

[57:08]

I wonder if I'm a real renunciate. I shave my head. I wear this robe. Am I a renunciate? Am I faking being a renunciate? We'll talk about that tomorrow in Right Livelihood. But anyway, do you have a differing opinion? Did Dogen Zenji change his mind? Did he go cuckoo? Some people also think he went nuts at the end of his life. It's all this business about, only a monk can attain the way. Do you think you can attain the way? Do you think you can practice selflessly, without renouncing the world, without giving up your I guess your sense of being able to determine how the practice is going on your own? Anyway, when you're in the monastery here, this practice period, basically

[58:14]

you're safe, pretty much. I mean, you're doing it. Dogen Zenji is happy with you. The Buddhas and ancestors see you as doing a life of a renunciate. But when we leave, then is it renunciation? Are we still practicing it for ourselves? Is that an expression of right action? Is that an expression of meditation on selflessness and meditation on selfishness? Is it an expression of meditation? So here it is. This is kind of like, in a sense, a skeleton in our closet of Zen. It's a skeleton in the closet of Mahayana Buddhism, the school of Buddhism,

[59:15]

the movement within Buddhism to save all beings. And now we're saying, well, yes, but in order to actually receive the Dharma and transmit it so you can say being viewed, you have to be a renunciate. And then if you can receive the Dharma, the Buddha Dharma, and transmit it, when you transmit it to other people and they hear it, they will become renunciates too, when they really hear it. When they really hear it and become renunciates and practice as monks, this will be right action. In other words, almost no one will figure out what's right action on their own, by their own resources in their own little house, in China, in Japan, in Korea, or in California. So what are we going to do? Are we going to stay in Tassajara forever? I'm leaving.

[60:21]

When I go back there and go into my nice little house with my darling little wife, is that going to be a monastery? If not, is my action going to be right action? Who's my law enforcement official? Well, she'd be my wife, right? But she doesn't want to be. She wants to be my wife. I'll try to talk her into this when I get back, but I asked her before and she said no, she doesn't want to do it. Klaus thinks, as you said, that renunciation is not giving up things of the world,

[61:36]

but accepting that they'll go away. Maybe. Maybe he did. Maybe he said that. Somebody else said that renunciation is giving up what should be given up. Renunciation is supposed to be a joy. It's supposed to be a happy thing. And actually, if you look at people after they first get ordained, they look pretty happy usually. First of their head shaved, they usually look pretty happy, pretty beautiful. At the end of being a shuso also, they look pretty happy, pretty beautiful. It's hard to say whether the shusos at the end of being a shuso look more or less beautiful than the newly ordained

[62:40]

priests, but they all look pretty beautiful. Also then after dharma transmission, they look pretty beautiful. These are all stages of renunciation. But then after the renunciation, then comes the daily life. The daily life, the day after day facing what renunciation means. Checking it out. Is this selfish? Am I on a selfish trip here? Drop it. Go confess it. Get help. We got a selfish person here. Help. And to be in an environment where people will help you with that. They'll say, oh yeah, that's too bad. Well, here, come on, sit down, relax. Here, have a cup of tea, selfish one. Oh, you are selfish. Oh, yes, you are. I see it. Thanks for admitting it. I didn't want to mention it. Who am I to mention it anyway?

[63:46]

It's not that we're perfectly and completely free of all selfishness, but that we enter into a training situation. Entering into a situation where our selfishness doesn't get worked with is called renouncing the world. Giving up the world and entering into a place where selfishness is an endangered species. Usually, selfishness unsupervised in the world can't be stopped. It will live forever. It is the great vampire. But when you put selfishness in an environment which is primarily concerned with identifying, studying, being willing to drop, understanding, dropping, understanding, studying, understanding, dropping, this environment is called a monastery. Not all

[64:53]

monasteries are spiffy like Tassajar with Japanese architecture and little bathhouses and stuff. Some monasteries are just little apartments in the city with, you know, not really good facilities, you know, Buddhist statues and stuff like that, or not very good ones. The monastery is not really beautiful architecture. The monastery is the spirit of renunciation. It's the spirit of, look at it, renounce acting on selfishness and study the selfishness. Studying selfishness is renouncing the world. The world is not about studying selfishness. The world is about promoting self at the expense of anything that doesn't also promote the self. And also hide that as much as possible, otherwise you'll get in trouble for it. The monastery is about, yikes, don't hide it,

[65:56]

don't act on it, admit it and study it. Yikes! Renouncing that nice old world of selfishness and entering the world of study the self. So when this practice period ends and some of us leave Tassajar for a while, are we going to go into a situation where we will be able to continue to study the self, where we will have the support? Will we renounce the world of selfishness and enter a world where we'll have support to study the self and study the self-cleaning? Study the second truth. Study the first truth. Are we going to be like that? And those of us who stay at Tassajar, are we going to study like that? Anyway, this is what Dogen Zenji is pointing to as the source, the context of right action. Pretty difficult, huh? A little scary. How do you guys feel? Are you happy to hear this news directly from 800 years ago?

[67:08]

Now maybe this is just a bad translation. Because that one part is really important about the Buddha ancestors becoming the lay person and all that. Maybe there's hope in that paragraph if somebody could understand the true meaning there. Oh, it's a lay person. Yes, what is it? Now's your chance. I need your stick first. No. I just wondered if you agree with what Dogen said. Do I agree? Yeah. Oh, I'm so deeply impressed. I'm really deeply considering what he's saying. I'm really wondering. Am I a renunciate? I'm convinced that we have to renounce the world. I don't see how we

[68:11]

can practice and hold on to the world. The question is, am I a renunciate? That's what I'm worried about. I do think we have to be renunciates, but I don't know who the renunciates are, and I don't know if I'm one of them. I don't know. Do you guys know about this? Are you guys renunciates? Yeah, that's it. You got it. How are you going to figure out that's the case? Is this going to be your idea? Yeah. Right. There you go. Don't be dumb. That's right speech, by the way, to be dumb. After I talked about right speech, a whole bunch of people came to see me and didn't say a word. One after another, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And I didn't even tip you off to think about being dumb.

[69:14]

One time, Suzuki Roshi gave a talk here at Tassajara, and he said, my disciples, blah, blah, blah. I forgot what it was, but I thought your disciples. So after the lecture, I went over to his cabin. I said, Roshi, who are your disciples? Am I one of them? How do you say that? I was fishing for that. Well, see, there's you, and he said, my disciples at Tassajara. At Tassajara, there's two kinds of students. One kind are here for themselves. One kind, they're here for others. My students are the ones, my disciples are the ones who are here for others. That's a renuncia. But it takes more than just saying, I'm here for others. Yes, Roberta?

[70:21]

You can certainly say that there's moments of renunciation, yes. So we have some nouns floating around, unidentified nouns. Yeah, so I'm saying, identify the nouns, and you can say, can't we just say that there's renunciation? Okay, fine. Is there renunciation? Who's going to answer? On behalf of whom? Say, I say, yes, there is renunciation, but I'm not talking for myself or for others. That sounds good. That sounds real good. Liz? To be a renunciate sounds like something's finished. Sounds like a big word. Yeah,

[71:38]

it does sound like a big word. Well, I don't think... Okay, so she says that you could have an aspiration for renunciation, but to say renunciate sounds like it's finished, and I would say renunciate may sound like it's finished, but that's part of being a renunciate, I would think, is that you couldn't say that it was finished. When you practice renunciation, you don't get to say, well, that's the end. It's just the beginning. It's the beginning. Now, it turns out that it is also enlightenment on the spot, but it's the beginning of the practice. The real practice is the beginning. Renunciation is right action, and it's not an end. It is right action. Right action is not the end, but it's also the goal, and it's also the practice, both at the same time. So, in our practice of renunciation, the practice and the goal are the same.

[72:39]

Selflessness is the practice. Selflessness is the goal. Selflessness is happy. Selflessness is happy. So, I feel like, although there may be a little or a lot of pain involved in renunciation, it's basically a joyful prospect, a joyful thing. So, I kind of feel like I have to deal with it, because I'm doing ceremonies that have renunciation as part of the ceremonies. I'm teaching teachings which have renunciation in them, in them, throughout. It's not all of practice, but I can't skip over it, and I'm wondering, how am I doing? Have I realized the spirit of renunciation? Is there renunciation in this neighborhood? I'm worried about this. I'm concerned about this. And I bring it up, because here it is,

[73:47]

Dogen Zenji mentioning it, right in the middle of an innocent little tour through the Eightfold Noble Path. So, in a way, I had to have brought it up before the Practice Spirit ended, and in a way, I'm sorry it didn't come up earlier, so you'd have three months to deal with it. But basically, there it is. I hope you can sit upright with this big question, big question about renunciation, big question about renouncing the world. And the world means, the world is not mountains and rivers and people. The world is selfishness. That's what the world is. It means renouncing selfishness. The world is selfishness. The Dharma world, there's no self there. But you already knew that, right?

[74:52]

Not just checking each other out, like abstractly going up and saying, oh, is that chick selfless? No. You watch her when she does the forms. How does she do orioki? How does she tie her orioki thing, you know? And then if you make a suggestion about doing it another way, does she say, how am I safe all alone? Or does she say, oh, that's interesting. How does she respond? The forms are the way we work on our selflessness. It's exactly the forms. That's the monastery. The monastery is where it's not just like one person walking around here and saying, you're selfish, you're selfish, you're selfless, you're selfish, or even going around that thing about yourself. You expose yourself by taking on some traditional discipline, a discipline to check, to verify, to get reflection on walking in shashu, you know? It's a form. What do you do with that? What do I do with it? How do I hold my hand when I walk? That's the form. Selfishness shows up right there. I don't want to do it the same old way all the time. I want to reverse occasionally or put

[76:07]

one on top, you know, or clasp my fingers, you know. It's not always like this, but there's the form. And here's the self. How do they interact? Dogen's great disciple said, this festering lump of flesh, most bestial of all beings, all humans, 40 years walking in shashu, now today I touch my nose afresh. And not only did he wake up, but he woke up through a form which he received and transmitted and has gone on for 700 years. Now we have it. So can we take care of it? Can we receive the dharma,

[77:10]

enhance the world and transmit it? That's my question. That's my suspicion about myself. I wonder. This is supposed to be the gate to the playground of creation. But it's a narrow gate. Doesn't let the self through. Gotta leave the self outside. That's the other.

[77:51]

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