This is the last class in this series. So I want to thank Gay for being our host for this series. Thank you so much, Gay. And thank all of you for your devotion to this series of meetings, your devotion to the teaching, and to the great community. And to awakening. I encouraged us earlier by saying, may our body settle into the body. May we be still and silent. And now I add, may we observe all sentient beings with eyes of compassion.

[01:11]

May we observe all other beings, and may we observe all of our suffering with eyes of compassion. May we listen to the cries of the world with ears of compassion. And during this series, we've been unfolding another layer. Based on settling into our own body and mind, and observing all living beings. Add in the gesture of experimenting with suffering.

[02:32]

Observing it, and experimenting with it. Questioning it. Exploring it. And doing this questioning, doing this experimenting in the context of compassion. Doing this exploring in the context of being gentle, and respectful, and careful, and patient in our study, in our experimenting. I have here a container of cough drops, throat drops.

[03:46]

And I brought it to remind me of an example. Someone said to me as I walked into this room carrying this, where are you going with my cough drops? So, I'm using them to remind me of an example. The example is an example of an experiment that I've been thinking of conducting. Do you want to hear about the experiment? So, about a week ago, I noticed that a counter in the kitchen in this house was, you could say, covered with small ants.

[05:00]

And the bread box was open, and the bread box was covered with small ants. Also on the counter was fruit, but the ants didn't seem to be crawling all over the fruit. It was mostly on the surface, and in the bread box. So, I took the fruit off the counter, and I took the bread box and put it outside. And I took everything in the bread box, and I shook off the ants, and took everything in the bread box out of the bread box, and put the bread box outside. And I put the other things, like the bread and so on, I put it in the refrigerator. And the bread box was still full of ants, and also the counter was covered with ants, and they were swarming.

[06:07]

And one of the things in the bread box was this. And this container of cough drops is closed. It hasn't been opened. It hasn't been opened, but they're all over it. And maybe they can smell it through the packaging. I don't know. Anyway, after quite a few days, the ants finally gave up on whatever they were interested in on that counter. And I put the bread box back, and then I put the fruit back, and yeah. So, I was observing the ants. I hope I was, I pray that I was observing with compassion. I was not trying to kill the ants.

[07:18]

But I was trying, I did try to remove whatever they were crawling all over. So then I decided, not decided, then I thought of an experiment. Which was, I put this package of cough drops back into the bread box. And after a little while, there were lots of ants again. So I removed this and put it back in the refrigerator, and took the bread box outside again. And yeah, so this is an example of me observing sentient beings. Hopefully with eyes of compassion. I couldn't hear them. And then I did some experiment, and then when things calmed down, I did an experiment of putting the cough drops back to see if the ants would come.

[08:27]

And I'm thinking, with the permission of the other people in the house, I'm thinking of doing the experiment again. Of putting these back into the bread box and see if the ants come. This is an example of kind of questioning the ants, you know. Are you interested in this package of cough drops? Of exploring the ants by seeing what they do, if I put it back. Studying them by observing them compassionately. And then doing experiments with them, which do not hurt them. I don't think it hurts. Maybe they're getting nervous by the cough drops coming and going. But I don't think it's bothering them. I think it's actually quite interesting. I think they're kind of, yeah, they think these cough drops are really interesting, and they're very happy to come and look for them when they smell them. So this is an example of me doing experiments with these sentient beings who I, yeah, I want them to be free of suffering.

[09:41]

But at the same time, I want to learn about them and see what they do. And maybe I'll come up with a theory. These ants like these cough drops, and I don't know how many more times I'll test it. But this is an example of Avalokiteshvara, we know, observes all sentient beings with eyes of compassion, but we don't usually mention. And Avalokiteshvara asks questions of the sentient beings, does experiments with the sentient beings, is curious about the sentient beings. Is curiosity part of compassion? In some cases, I think sentient beings do want us to be curious about them. I think they do want us to ask them questions. I think it encourages them when we ask questions.

[10:44]

And then again, to ask the questions as an experiment, not asking questions disrespectfully to get something or to control sentient beings. To explore, to learn about and become more intimate with the suffering of the world. Not to suppress it. Although, by the way, these are also called cough suppressants. So I'm not into that, and I'm not into ant suppression or ant domination. But I am interested, I really, I am into observing ants and experimenting with them to get to know them, to be intimate with them.

[11:45]

Because I think the intimacy with the ants, intimacy, I think, protects the ants and liberates the ants. And the same with my own suffering, and the same with all of you. I'm not trying to control you. I'm not trying to eliminate you. I'm not trying to control your pain or eliminate your pain. I'm trying to protect you in the midst of your pain by being intimate with your pain and intimate with my pain. And again, this practice of intimacy with pain and discomfort and suffering is conducted in my body being settled into my body and your body being settled into your body. If your body is settled and mine isn't, you can teach me by showing me your settled body.

[12:49]

You can transmit your settled body to me so that I, with a settled body, can observe with you. There's a Bodhisattva vow which just came up tonight, which is the vow to be still and silent with this body and mind, for this body and mind to settle onto itself. And in that quiet and stillness, to observe all sentient beings and transmit the stillness, the silence, and transmit this compassionate observation, and also to do experiments for the sake of intimacy. And intimacy is the protection of beings. I propose to you. Also, a story, I told a story last, not last weekend, but the weekend before, about this thing here, which I sometimes carry.

[14:09]

One time, a woman said to me, what is that baton for? And I hadn't heard this called a baton before. I've heard it called a stick. I've heard it called a party favor. I've heard it called a kotsu, Japanese word. I've heard it called a teaching staff. But I thought baton was a nice word because it's, a baton is used to conduct an orchestra or conduct a marching band. Like the majorette carries a baton, right? Or the parade, there's a majorette, it's a female, and the major is like the male. Anyway, they carry batons to conduct the parade, the marching.

[15:18]

But also a baton is something you pass. So, I hope, I've been, partly I've been conducting these sessions, but also I want to transmit the conducting of these sessions to you. I want to transmit to you being still and silent in body and mind and observing sentient beings and experimenting with them to discover intimacy, which will accomplish the protection and liberation of us all. Thank you. Also, I will offer another talk this year on Zoom, Saturday the 11th, if you want to come for, I guess, the final Zoom talk of the year for Noah Bode.

[16:38]

You're welcome to attend. And so, again, thank you very much. And I open now to hear your experiments. Again, I trust you to be present and settled in your body and mind. And hopefully, from your settled body and mind, you can offer some questions. You can explore the teaching with this assembly. You can express your interest in something, if you wish. Thank you.

[17:46]

Hi, Great Assembly. I've had a series of very frustrating things with Internet. I thought you were going to say insects. No, insects, no. This is a little less animate, maybe. But technology. And so, you know, I found myself today calling the Ontario government in Canada. Oh, I thought you were going to say, I found myself calling Avalokiteshvara. I think I should have, too. I should have thought of that. Okay, but you forgot to do that and called Ontario instead? Called the Ontario government instead, hoping to get some help. And the woman wasn't being very helpful. I think she was more frustrated, probably, with her job than I was with the technology. But it occurred to me afterwards, and I begged her to stay on the phone with me while I tried to go step by step.

[19:22]

And she goes, I can't do that. And if you would just stop talking to me and just look at the screen, you know, you would find what I'm telling you on the screen. And I'm going, well, I'm not finding it. Anyway, but what I realized, you know, I stuck with it for a little while. And finally, I just gave up. And I said, thank you very much. I'll try another time. But I was thinking about what you had said about the conscious mind feeding the unconscious. And how damaging my attitude was, or just that level of frustration that I feel when I can't accomplish something. I don't mind working hard at anything, but if I suddenly come up against a stumbling block, I find that very frustrating. But I realized that that's not help. If I could be compassionate to my frustration, I suppose, that's what I think you might recommend.

[20:25]

Yeah. And then maybe I wouldn't be quite so tied up in knots about it. And that, you know, like I feel just like for the sake of our collective unconscious, I should do that. Because it's not good. Like, you know, it's okay. I mean, it's one thing if I want to do that to myself, but I don't like the idea of feeding that back into the unconscious. So now you've said this, and I was listening to you. So now we can do an experiment with you and what you said. So part of the experiment is for me to say that frustration, when you feel frustrated, like, for example, you want the computer to work, you wish for it to work, and it's not working.

[21:41]

So that wish is frustrated. So the experiment, which I would suggest, in which we can kind of still do, is to be kind to the frustration. The frustration itself is not clearly an action. It's more like an arising between certain events and certain wishes in conflict. That right there is not necessarily an action, but more like part of a pattern. The question is then when that pattern of frustration arises, people often try to avoid it, control it, get angry at it, blame somebody for it, which is kind of like anger. Those are ways of relating to it, which then start to make the... They then will have an unfortunate, probably have an unfortunate effect on our unconscious and our body.

[22:52]

But I'm not suggesting you do that experiment right now, but rather the experiment of being compassionate to the frustration. Before you call Ontario, if possible. Maybe Ontario is calling. Sounds like English bells. Yeah. So, I'm doing an experiment with you by saying that to you. By suggesting to settle your body, your uncomfortable, frustrated body, on your uncomfortable, frustrated body and feel that body and be still with it. And then be compassionate to the frustration by letting it be. And at that point, you could also do an experiment with that frustration.

[23:55]

You could call Ontario as an experiment. Now, what would happen if I called Ontario? Again, it would be an experiment, not trying to get rid of the frustration. If you're trying to get rid of the frustration, that's not kind. So, if we're in a place now where you're being this person, and you're settled into being this person, and this person is feeling frustrated, but hasn't yet gotten angry, but just feeling frustrated. Now we practice kindness to her. We listen to her. We understand how she's uncomfortable with this frustration. Frustration is usually uncomfortable. We respect the frustration. We're tender with the frustration.

[24:56]

We're patient with the frustration. All this is before we do anything with computers and make any telephone calls. The computer problem hasn't been addressed, but you're practicing the Bodhisattva way. And you can see, as an experiment, what happens if you deal with the frustration that way. And then you can do it further. And then you also might be curious. I wonder what would happen if I called some tech person for tech support. Could I do that, again, without trying to be cruel or unkind to the frustration? Not calling them to get rid of it. But it's a little bit like maybe taking care of a child who's sick, and you're being kind to the child. You're experimenting by being kind to the child and see how that helps.

[26:01]

You see how that doesn't help? You're patient with the pain of the child. You're paying with the pain of the child. And then you call the doctor. But when you call the doctor, if it's an experiment, you're trying to learn about the situation. You're not trying to get rid of the child's illness. You're being compassionate to the child's illness, and then you're going to do experiments. And then when doing the experiments, see if the experiments can be done. If the telephone calls can be done in the same way that you took care of the frustration in the first place. With care and generosity. Yeah. So sometimes you might not be able to think of an experiment to do with the frustration. But even if you can't think of an experiment to do with it, like call for tech support, you can take care of the frustration right then.

[27:03]

And you can try various ways of being kind to it. But again, as you're more kind with it, you're more settled with it. And you're more at peace with it. But you still might be interested to learn about it. And go further into the depth of your relationship with the frustration. And the source of that is my wish being in conflict with my actions or something. Your wish is in contact. It could be in conflict or frustrated by your action or somebody else's action. I would imagine that you might have been frustrated when this woman wouldn't talk to you. That might have been frustrating.

[28:05]

And again, I would try first to deal with my discomfort of being frustrated that this person won't talk to me. And then I would be in a better position to be compassionate to this person who won't talk to me. But first, the pain and frustration that she won't talk to me. And then be compassionate to her and do experiments with her. Sometimes I used to say that, you know, I don't think I would commit suicide if I got some terrible disease. I'm more the kind of person who might commit suicide if tech support won't listen to me. Some little things, you know, that I don't think, you know, I don't need these problems. Those things are things that really get to me sometimes rather than big terrible things. Which I know I should be patient with. But do I have to be patient with tech support person who won't let me talk?

[29:10]

No, I don't have to do that. Well, I disagree. That's a mistake. This person is there to help you and you don't see that they're helping you. So that's frustrating. And I guess if you're, you know, when you're practiced with this idea, with this being kind to yourself and things like that, it can happen relatively quickly. Like for me, to do all that thinking seems like it would take, or that consideration seems like it would take a long time. It might. I think that... As you practice it more, you get faster. Just like when you're learning a language, you know, like when you're learning a language. When I first try to learn wakara nakara, you know, it's Japanese for understanding. After I do it over and over, I can do wakara nakatakara.

[30:15]

And same like with tai chi, they start really slowly, doing those motions, you know, to get them right. And after you're making the right moves, you can speed them up faster and faster. So, yeah, I think when you're learning this skill, it takes time. In this particular case, you could have done a lot of good work before you made the telephone call. However, that might have postponed the telephone call by half an hour or more. But even though you didn't get the technical problem worked out, you did well with your life, and you transformed your body and my body in the process. You helped other beings by taking care of yourself. Even though the technical problem was not solved, and you have not yet met this wonderful person in Ontario. But you're ready to meet her.

[31:21]

And I like the lightness that experiment, the idea of experimenting sort of suggests a lightness of approach, I think, to me anyway. Yeah, if you watch, I can't speak for all scientists, but if you watch them work, they're usually quite kind of light and careful in the way they work. I could say, what about a, what do you call it, a, what do they call them? What are the people called that, that, oh, blacksmiths, blacksmiths are not, they're not necessarily doing experiments. But I think some blacksmiths, like Alexander Calder, you know him? He's kind of a blacksmith, right? He works with metal and pounds metal, and he makes these beautiful sculptures.

[32:24]

But I think when he works with the metal, I think he's very careful and gentle and respectful of the metal. So he's working, so he's kind of a scientist of metal. And in that case, the artists and scientists come close together. He does these experiments with metal and other things too. So, and when he does that, he transforms the world. He transforms the metal, he transforms us. Thank you. Hi, Rev. Thank you very much for your teaching.

[33:25]

You're welcome. Thank you for coming. I think a couple of weeks ago you talked about three different minds, three different consciousness, karmic consciousness, and I think the other ones are maybe subconscious or unconscious. And the other one is wisdom consciousness. Except I didn't call them all consciousness. I call them three minds. Three minds. So I use consciousness for karmic consciousness, where we speak English or Chinese. And where we see other people separate from us. And where we make plans and stuff. And where I am. That's karmic consciousness. That's not the way it is in the unconscious mind. And that's not the way it is in the wisdom mind.

[34:27]

I wonder if you can speak more about the wisdom mind. Because I feel like I didn't hear enough or didn't hear enough about it. So much as the other two. Well, the wisdom mind is the mind which is aware of the truth of the karmic mind. So the wisdom mind is the awareness that in the karmic mind there's lots of suffering. And it also sees that much of what's going on there is deceptive and illusory and misrepresenting reality. Whereas in the karmic mind we tend to believe these illusions as real. But the wisdom mind can see, oh, this consciousness believes in these things.

[35:32]

Thinks that these illusions are real. The wisdom mind understands that they're delusions. They're ignoring the truth. And also the wisdom mind can see this ignorance of the truth of phenomena. This believing in the deceptive appearance of the phenomena. It sees that this is suffering. Also the wisdom mind understands the relationship between the conscious mind and the unconscious mind. So it sees, it understands the relationship between the conscious mind and the unconscious. It also is understanding of the relationship among conscious minds. For example, there's a conscious mind where there seems to be you. But in the conscious mind where there seems to be you,

[36:37]

there's a conscious mind where there seems to be an I and the I is Cha Ying. There's another conscious mind where there's an I and the I is Reb. But in Cha Ying, in the conscious mind where the I is called Cha Ying, you don't call Reb I, you call Reb him or Reb. And it doesn't seem like he's the, it doesn't seem like I'm the me in your consciousness, right? And similar, it doesn't seem like you're the me in mine. Wisdom understands that. So these words that are coming to you are coming from wisdom. Wisdom is sending this message to all of us. Wisdom has taught this. Wisdom has seen that in each consciousness there's an I and in each consciousness the I is seen as the self that's in that consciousness

[37:39]

and everything else in there is not the self. And so on, so on. Wisdom sees that and then wisdom has now sent these teachings to us. So, and wisdom is also saying the mind can be turned around to look at itself and discover these teachings. That's a teaching from wisdom. Now, conventionally I could say you can turn your mind around saying that the languages, the mind can be turned around and it can look and see that there's a me and an I and a self in the consciousness and then it can tell you what you're going to find there. And then the mind can look and the mind can discover that what is being taught will actually be found. And also if you can't find, if it's not found, then questions can be asked

[38:40]

and then conversation can help you find the things that are supposed to be there. For example, there should be suffering if there's delusion and there is. But maybe you're not be able to find the suffering right away. But by conversing, you say, oh, there it is. And now I see the suffering is coming from the delusion. Wow. And from me believing this delusion. So the wisdom mind is conducting the study of the karmic consciousness. And it gives karmic consciousness teachings, which karmic consciousness can study. And karmic consciousness can talk to other karmic consciousnesses who are also doing the study. And we can share these wisdom teachings, which we're doing right now. And all this study, this study of the mind with applying the teachings to the conscious mind

[39:42]

transforms the unconscious to make the conscious mind more skilled and more used to doing the study all the time. Or I should say doing the study more and more. And is it right to say that all what you just said, the conscious mind and the activities of the conscious mind, the unconscious mind and the wisdom mind, all those activities, they are not limited in this thing. Correct. They are not limited. And the wisdom mind is the relationship among all the conscious minds and among all the bodies. It's that relationship and it understands that relationship. And the wisdom mind also understands how our unconscious processes overlap and do not. And the wisdom mind also understands that there's really no separation between all the conscious minds.

[40:45]

But the conscious minds think that they're separate from other conscious bodies and minds. But they're not. And also our life is not confined to this confining mind. So the karmic mind is enclosed and limited, but that isn't the limit of our life. It's just limited of that diluted mind. But we have to study that diluted mind in order to realize that our life is not limited by it. And wisdom teachings show us how to study and what to study. And can I ask one last question? Thank you. What would you say is the relationship between great compassion and the wisdom mind? Great compassion is compassion which is united with the wisdom mind.

[41:54]

When we first start practicing compassion, we don't have wisdom. So we practice compassion towards the way things appear. And we think that the way they appear is the way they are. So we practice compassion towards sentient beings just as they appear. We practice compassion towards them as merely the way we see them. That's the first way we practice compassion. Great compassion is not separate from that compassion, because great compassion understands that compassion. Also, then the next kind of compassion, where we start to bring Dharma teachings to our compassion, great compassion is with that too. When that second type of compassion comes to fruit, we have wisdom about the suffering and then we have great compassion. So in great compassion, the wisdom is united with the compassion.

[42:59]

In the beginning compassions, the wisdom is not mature. And we have a limited understanding of the suffering and the beings who are suffering. I think this gesture you did was very helpful. Thank you very much. You're very welcome. Hi. Hi to everyone and to you, Rob. I've run into a bit of a snag that I'd like to talk to you about. I notice things kind of make sense when I hear you,

[44:02]

at least in the moment they do. It's like, oh, yeah. And then so after Mount Madonna retreat, I was experimenting with some of the things we talked about there and specifically thinking about the conversation we had about preferences and how much trouble you get into with preferences or how they're the cause of suffering. So I've been thinking about that, poking around that. And I have a friend, a very vibrant, wonderful friend, who a year and a half ago got struck with chronic fatigue. And he's been lying flat on his back, pretty much unable to move for a year and a half, though his mind is still pretty darn good. And when he has energy, he likes it when I write to him or talk to him.

[45:04]

And I was kind of excited about the retreat. And I wanted to spruce up his life a little bit and share some of the insights or things we talked about. And then I realized I felt embarrassed or inappropriate to bring up the topic of even the idea of not having preferences when I started to think about bodies, in terms of bodies. And then I thought, was Rev really saying that it doesn't make sense to have a preference that I don't have chronic fatigue or that he would have a preference not to have it? That's where my understanding, I just ran out of gas. And I would like to be reminded about what is the teaching about preferences with regard to having cancer? Yeah, I think you probably get my question. It reminds me of something I heard that was said by an ancient Zen teacher,

[46:08]

which was, I'm so tired, I don't even have any preferences. If you're really exhausted, you don't even have the energy to have a preference, by the way. But I'm not saying you shouldn't have preferences. I'm just saying that grasping them makes life really difficult. Okay. So this comes from the statement, the great way is not difficult except for picking and choosing. But that doesn't mean that you would then choose not to be picking and choosing, or that you would have the preference for not having preferences. Some people have the preference to not have preferences.

[47:15]

And they do things to themselves so they won't have preferences. Like what? Like what would you do to yourself? Committing suicide. That will end, that frees them from the suffering of preferences. So human beings have three kinds of, let's say, of flows. One is the desire for sex. One is the desire for certain states of being. And the other is desire for annihilation. And to not have any preferences is kind of like annihilation. So it's not so much that you don't have preferences, it's just that you don't attach to them. You just, you know, you watch them and you practice kindness to them. They're like a disease. Wanting to have a healthy body is like a disease? It's like a disease in the sense that if you grasp it, you get sick.

[48:23]

Or, you know, or I could say, or maybe easier for you to say, preferences are like traps. They're traps. And if you fall into them, you're in big trouble. But to have a preference and not fall into it, like a Buddha might prefer to have lunch at 12 o'clock. Maybe they do. But, you know, if lunch is not served at all, the Buddha is not going to be upset about that because they didn't attach to the preference of having lunch at 12 o'clock. So it's not that you don't have preferences, you just don't get involved in them. However, if you do get involved in them, that's not the end of the world. You're just making life much more difficult for yourself. That's all. It doesn't mean you can't practice at all.

[49:26]

It just says the way is not difficult except for picking and choosing. Picking and choosing makes the practice of helping all beings much more difficult. For example, if you wanted to help your friend who has chronic fatigue and you are attached to the preference that he doesn't have it, then you're not good for him. Then he doesn't want you around. You're just more trouble for him. You tire him out. What little energy he has gets sucked up into you wishing he was some other way. What he wants is somebody to be there and help him be who he is with whatever amount of energy we have. So compared to some people, I have chronic fatigue. I mean, some people just have so much more energy than me. If I compare myself to them, I feel like I'm practically dead.

[50:27]

But I kind of accept how little energy I have compared to those people, even though they make me feel really small, really weak, you know, pretty much almost half alive, because they're so with energy. But if I can accept my relatively small energy, that will help me accept their big energy. On the other hand, if I can't accept my small energy, I'm already in trouble and it'll be really hard for me to accept theirs. So I hate myself and hate them if I attach to having a lot more energy. But that doesn't mean I go and tell people who have not much energy, you know, that they shouldn't want to have more energy. If they want more energy, then my job is to not prefer that they weren't that way.

[51:30]

Even though I can see they're just hurting themselves. So I see people who want to have more energy, want to have more vitality, etc., etc. I see people like that. I heard this at, I think it's called the Bay Club. Have you heard of it? It's a club in San Francisco, and I think they have some other locations. Anyway, I heard of advertisement for it. And basically the whole advertisement was more, more, more. You know, more swimming pools, more weight equipment, more saunas, more lovely towels, more masseuses, more happiness, more, more, more. And people, you know, and people join that club and pay extra money because it's more, more, more. Buddhism is not about more, more, more. It's about yes, yes, yes to what's going on, really. And making peace with it.

[52:30]

Including that you're surrounded by people who are into more, more, more. And they're just knocking themselves out with more, more, more. Does that remind you of the human situation? Does that remind you of our planetary ecological crisis? More, more, more. More energy, more energy, more energy, more energy. This is our, this is the crisis of our planet is people want more. They prefer more. And so my job is to be compassionate to the people who are hurting themselves and others by wanting more energy for themselves and for their loved ones. And maybe less energy for people they don't like. But I don't go up to people who want more energy and tell them,

[53:33]

point out to them that what they're doing is hurting everybody. I try to work with them the way they are and not be caught by my preference, if I had it, that they would give up this destructive activity of getting more. I try to teach them compassion, which will help them deal with their destructive habit patterns. What's helpful to me in this conversation, in this interaction, is I've been worried about Josh and how he's doing and how he's holding it all. And out of our conversation, I realized it's what you said at the beginning when we were sitting tonight about looking over at calming myself, being centered in myself, settling in myself. That's helpful. That's the work for me to do.

[54:40]

And then I bring that self to him and whatever he's got going on, I can be with. You bring that self to him and then you listen to him and you observe him. And maybe you do some experiments with him. But first of all, you're settled, then you can help him. Did I talk about the acrobats also last time? The time before? Well, previously, I don't know which time. I mean, I've certainly heard, but maybe not everyone has. Yeah. I will just say, today I got a text from him saying, you mentioned that Reb is doing online classes or things online. Could I participate sometime in a Zoom? And this is after knowing him for many, many years. Today, because of what I've said about what I'm learning or getting and struggling with, so I don't know. I thought that was very sweet. And you may see him one day.

[55:42]

And he may see me. He may. Thank you. Hello, June. Well, hello, Reb. Thank you. I would like you to talk some about faith and trust. It came out of a kind of experiment I had in a dental appointment.

[56:50]

And the dental appointment was with a relatively new dentist that I happened to know in various ways. And she's good. So I was there to get a deep, one of those deep cleanings. And, you know, she said, you ever had one before? I said, yeah, a long time ago. And so she uses nitrous oxide because it, you know, laughing gas, because it makes it easier for the dentist and or the technician and the patient. Well, it's a choice. And I have some apprehension, like, oh, my God, would I get another stroke in the brain or what? And so I consulted with my physician.

[57:52]

And now that's perfectly OK. Won't blow your brain in any way. So then I said, OK. And in the process of that, I was caught between, you know, put the nitrous oxide in your nose and all you have to breathe it in. And then they do all kinds of things in your mouth and they get started. Well, I was breathing in the nitrous and I still had fear, but I had to breathe in deeply. So I did that with and struggling in my mind. And then I had fear about, well, what are they doing in there? It's really something I can't see. And I can't I'm by this time a little out of it. And it's all very kind of humorous.

[58:55]

But I observed that the two things kind of saved me or allowed me to do it with relative ease, I guess. One, focusing on the breathing. I thought, well, thank God I've practiced that for a long time. So that was primary. And also going over all the reasons I should trust the technician, the technique, the dentist, you know, all these trust factors. And I somewhere in there, I thought. And oh, by the way, when it was finished, she said, I said, how much did you have to use? Or she said, actually, you used very little compared to most people. Well, I felt good about that.

[59:57]

But I realized in my thinking, the word faith did not arise. Afterwards, I thought, well, I trust. So I looked up trust and faith. And one has trust is like you have evidence and faith. You don't. You just it's emotional kind of thing. And then I realized I really don't know much about faith. And I thought, well, I'll ask you. What would you say about faith and trust? Well, trust, I feel like we've been talking about. You know, you do experiments with things and you gain trust.

[60:58]

But I don't know much about faith. And I have faith in experimenting. And. My faith is. When I do the experimenting. That is the expression of my faith. Also, when I do the experimenting at that moment, I trust. The experiment.

[62:00]

Could you say that again? Would you say when I when I do the experiment, I trust experimenting. I trust the experiment. Also, I have faith when I do the experiment. I have faith in experimenting. So for me. They're both. I use them interchangeably. And I kind of when you were talking, I think I think it was good for me to remember that everything I do. Is kind of like everything I do is kind of like an experiment. Yeah. Rather than everything I do is going to be this way or that way. I may think that. But I don't think I don't, I don't really don't particularly don't want to go. I have. I have faith and trust in experimenting.

[63:10]

I don't have faith and trust in my thoughts that I'm going to do this and it's going to be the way I do it. Okay, I get that. I don't have faith that when I put a glass of water on the table, the table is going to hold the glass of water up. I don't want to have that kind of faith. I don't want to have the faith that if I go to the dentist, my teeth won't rot. I don't want to, that's for me that I don't, I don't have faith in that kind of attitude. I have faith in experimenting. Experimenting. And so I go to the dentist as an experiment. Yeah, okay. It's an experiment in taking care of my teeth.

[64:11]

I do not know what will happen. My faith is not that I believe such and such will happen. Okay. My faith is I'm going to go to the dentist and I'm going to do the experiment of going to the dentist, including that I may never get to the dentist. But going to the dentist and never getting there is part of the experiment of going to the dentist. But when I go to the dentist, I don't have the faith that I'm going to arrive at the dentist's office. And when I get there, they're going to do a really good job and I'm going to be happy ever after. I don't think that. I don't believe in that. I don't trust that. I don't have faith in that. But I do have faith in basically everything I do as an experiment or everything I do as a bet. I bet this is a good thing to do. I bet it's good to brush my teeth.

[65:16]

And when I place my bet is when I brush my teeth. So I bet on going to the dentist. I experiment on going to the dentist. That's my faith. So I also have faith in going to the dentist as one of my experiments. I do not have so much faith in the experiment of not going to the dentist and not brushing my teeth. I don't do that experiment. But if I wanted to do that experiment, you know, if that would be any help to anybody for me not to go to the dentist, to do the experiment to see if that would lead to me having bad teeth, I'm happy to do that experiment. But nobody seems to be asking me to do that. People appreciate that I go to the dentist and brush my teeth. Especially the dental hygienist appreciates it. Yeah. You take good care of yourself. You made my day. Thank you for brushing your teeth.

[66:17]

That's because of the experiments. So that's my perspective on faith. Faith is what I bet on, the experiments I do in life. For example, I experiment by going and sitting. I experiment by studying. I experiment by offering this assembly. It's an experiment for me. So I trust this experiment. I don't trust that it's going to do this or that. I just trust doing it. And the trust came out of doing it and seeing the result. Doing it again and seeing the result. And also understanding that I don't see all the results. I experiment with that too, with that teaching. In other words, I could be wrong about the results.

[67:20]

And since I'm experimenting, I'm open to being refuted. Yeah. It's experimenting. Part of the reason I trust experimenting is I also trust being open-minded. Yeah. I don't trust controlling the world. I don't trust it. I don't have faith in it. Okay. Yeah. But the rich people are the people who say, I can control the world for you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, here. Here's a control. Thank you. Hi.

[68:23]

Hi. This is a clarification of Tracy's question. The way and of my own understanding, the way I understand no preferences is very simple. Just not to prefer. Something to be different from the way it is. From the way it is in that moment. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't imply it doesn't mean that I might not that I wouldn't do things to help my friend who's sick, get better. It doesn't mean that at all. That doesn't mean that at all. So, and then every. Yeah. You might go visit your friend and help your friend be better by helping your friend be more accepting of himself. Yeah, that could happen. You've learned that. So just like you were saying about experiment, you're now the experiment sort of mode of thinking,

[69:29]

or you're using that word as an experiment. You're using that word a lot. And so every moment or every step, whether you decide to brush your teeth or whatever, you know, at that moment, you're not saying I want my, I don't, I prefer my teeth should not be the way they are. You're just brushing your teeth. Yeah. I trust that. Yeah. So there's no conflict is all I'm trying to say with Tracy. I'm trying to say this and myself. There's no conflict between trying to make yourself more healthy or, or, or at least doing things that would be conducive to health or conducive to awakening or conducive to good teeth. There's no conflict between no preferences on that. Right. No conflict. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Hello.

[70:44]

Hello. Hi. Something that came up in my, in my mind. When you were talking to June was. This phrase, not, not knowing is nearest. And just as kind of. Orientation. Toward the world of not going in, like thinking that. You know, what's going to happen or. Is that a little bit of what. What. What's going on there. Okay. And the other way around is. If I'm really intimate with somebody. Like myself or you. I don't, I don't know. I have to be separate from you to know who you are. You have to. Yeah. You know, I have to say you're this. But that's not intimate. But I.

[71:49]

But I do have the fun of. You're this. But it's, it's not intimate. When I really get close to someone. I really don't know. If they're me or. Or if I'm them or whatever. Yeah. Like Rilke said. I don't know if I'm. A falcon. A storm. Or a great song. That's, that's what it's like when you're intimate. Yeah. You said something earlier about intimacy. Is the protection of beings. And I don't know that I. I heard you say that before. I wondered if you could. Elaborate a little bit on how. I kind of. I've heard you talk about that. Yeah. Intimacy is, is liberation. But. And I. I don't know if I understand that, but that.

[72:51]

Yeah. But protection. Protection. Seemed. Different. And I just wondered if you could elaborate a little bit on what. What that's about. Maybe protection in a way protection might seem like it's. Maybe it's first. And then there's liberation, but anyway, if, if I'm suffering. And I'm intimate with my suffering. I I'm protected. I'm not hurt by my suffering. But if I'm not intimate with my suffering. In some sense. The more on intimate I am. The more my suffering hurts me. But it's not that suffering hurts me. It's my life. It's my lack of intimacy with it. The farther away it is. The more it hurts me. Okay. So the separation.

[73:52]

Yeah. As the separation gets bigger. I'm, I'm, I'm more harmed. And, and, but still, you know, even though we brush our teeth, we still get old. And eventually. Our body falls apart. And it's, it's often kind of uncomfortable. When it falls apart. And. But we can, but intimacy protects us from, from our body falling apart. It doesn't stop it from falling apart. And, and again, I can, I can brush my teeth. With intimacy. And then I protected from suffering. Well, I'm brushing my teeth. But again, if I'm brushing my teeth. And I'm not intimate with brushing my teeth. I'm suffering. Because probably when I'm not intimate with brushing my teeth, I'm trying to

[74:57]

get better teeth. Or, you know, Whatever. So. Intimacy doesn't. Get rid of the human. The condition of being a living being. Which is impermanence. It's just that being intimate with impermanence. We're protected. Right in the middle of impermanence. Which is an ongoing situation. Which some people say it really gets heavy duty when you're old. But as you know, some, some little people have heavy duty impermanence too. And so we want to protect them. By being intimate with them and teaching them how to be intimate with their impermanence. So we, we need to be intimate with our own first. And then we can teach them how to be intimate with theirs. And I also see curiosity in there.

[76:01]

Like as a big part of that. Yeah. If I want to be intimate with some with my suffering and there's no curiosity. That lack of curiosity. Maybe missing. Or at least not using a wonderful tool. It doesn't mean we always had to be using curiosity. But sometimes curiosity is just the thing we need. To understand intimacy more deeply. Like, I think you think something. I think you think something. But then I'm kind of curious to see if, if you do. Like, I think you think this. But let me just check with you, by the way. Because maybe you don't. Even though I know you do. I'm going to check. And sometimes you say, why are you asking me? Of course, you know, I do just, just curious. And then you say. Oh, yeah, actually, I don't thank you for it. No, I see. I don't. Thank you.

[77:02]

You're welcome. Thank you. Personally. I feel very threatened. By. The things that I experience. Experience or experimenting. I know, like, just for example, I have a deep passion to go hiking in. On soft surfaces in woods, but. I always am confronted with fear of being alone in the woods. And it just brings up a lot of worry. And a lot of times I feel limited. In what I can really safely do in my own mind. I don't feel safe a lot in a lot of ways. And in theater, there's lots of exploration, but it's really, really, really safe. It's like.

[78:06]

Very safe. So, I don't know. I feel a sad for myself. Actually, when you talk like this, I feel like you have a lot of skill with experimenting. And I have a lot of. I guess a version or like. Threat about it. I think that. You just mentioned that there are certain situations where you feel safe. And I was. Those are the situations. Where you are more likely to be. Settled your body. On your body. And settled your mind on your mind. That's when you feel more safe. And when you're feeling more settled. Of your body and mind on itself. Then you feel more able to do experiments. Correct. So in some areas you haven't yet found a way. To settle yourself in those arenas. So you might. Try to find some way to gradually approach.

[79:11]

Those arenas. Step-by-step. So first step is, can I take one step and settle? No. No. Well, just don't move that. Stay where you are until you settle. Right. Would you sort of. To do too good to do. Most fruitful experimenting. And the most fruitful experimenting. Will come when you're settled. So when you're settled. Then you can observe. It's hard to even observe. If you're not settled. Okay. Now you're settled. Now you can observe. Yeah. Okay. Now. Settle and observe now experiment. But some realms, if you go into them. Your first challenge is, Hey, I can't settle here. Okay. Either back up. And go someplace where you can settle. And come back later. But I would say.

[80:11]

As much, you know, as, as part of your training. Train from finding situations where you can. Have your body and mind settle onto your body and mind. And then extend from there into other areas. Where your body can settle onto itself. So when you're settled, you can, then you can observe clearly. And then you can experiment. And then you can consider some other situation. But I don't see much good in going someplace. And doing anything much. If you skipped over your basic work. Of settling. And some situations are just too difficult to settle. Like going into cold water. Some people can go into cold water and settle. Other people. If the water is at temperature. They cannot settle in that temperature. So I would say, well, try it, try it. A little bit warmer than settle into that.

[81:13]

No. I swim in cold water and I did it by going from. Cold to colder to colder to colder. But I didn't jump from. You know, I didn't jump from what. 75 Into 43. I went from 75. To 70. To 65. To 60. To 55. To 50. To 55 to 45. So finally, I could go into water. That was 43. If you just jump suddenly into really cold water. You know, your Vegas nerd can shut off your heart. Shouldn't do that. You should gradually. Expand your ability. To relax in more and more challenging situations. But expand from being settled. Don't jump. Ahead of your. Settling practice. So if you've got theater. And Zen does and you can settle in them.

[82:17]

Good. That's good. And then. And then so on. Eventually we want to. Extend our range. So that we can observe in more and more. Variety of circumstances because. There's more and more variety. Sentient beings. And we want to be able to be intimate with all of them. But in order to be intimate. We have to be settled in ourself. And then we have to observe what's going on. And then we can start experimenting. And learning more. So please accept. What you can resettle in. And work at that. And then. Keep making that your. Your baseline is what you can settle in. And don't try to practice in situations. Where you can't settle. Just keep settling. And you're settling practice will grow. And someday. The Buddha says.

[83:19]

You will be able to settle any place. Or at least I'll have some stillness and silence. Well, it's the same thing. Thank you. You're welcome. Good evening. Good evening. I've been wanting to ask this all night, but it sort of started with the question about frustration. And the basic question is. Sometimes something happens that appears to my mind to be frustrating or catastrophic. And. It takes a little while for the mind to get some perspective and recover from that. But in the meantime, there's a whole cascade of physical things. That. That comes out of. The mind. You know, basically saying to the body, this is a catastrophe.

[84:22]

And it takes much longer in my experience, at least for me. For that body response to settle. And you were just talking about settling the body. And I wondered if. You had anything to say about, you know, that. Because I do find the mental aspects. Resolve much more quickly. And sometimes I feel like the physical. Aspects are almost like an intoxication. You know, the body is just really out of whack. And it takes a long time. I did start by saying the body. Yeah. First settle the body. Onto the body first. That's what we do. Right. We sit the body down. And we, and we, we settle into the body on the cushion. And the leg and the knees on the ground. And it's fine. And then, you know, we settle into the body first. By doing that kind of practice, then when. The body goes into. Cascades or whatever.

[85:24]

You have a chance to settle with that body. So first of all, settle with the body. Now here comes a big wave of. Here comes a big challenging physical situation. So I want to settle with that. First with the body. I guess, I guess my, yeah, my experience is that mentally I can get. More easily to a place of. Perspective. This isn't, this isn't. It's something to be grateful for. Yeah. Skip over your body. Yeah. Well, I'm trying to get back to it. You know, once that. You can get back to is fine, but it's better to start with it. Yeah. Each moment, start with your body. Each moment, start with your body. You got every moment. You've got one. Each moment, start with it. You're always here with his body. So start with that. Start with that.

[86:26]

Start with that. Start with that. Start with it. Don't skip over that. And go to, for example, Something you can deal with easily. Mental things. Don't skip over the body. And it's available every moment. And we train ourselves. To be there with the body at each moment. Now there's certain situations with the body. Where it's not so difficult. Like, for example, if you're swimming in really cold water. You have no trouble being with your body. Or if you're tightrope walking. If you're on the rope, you're, you're with your body. And again, that's why it's nice to sit upright because. You sort of have to be. With your body to actually sit upright. You can be with your body lying down in bed, but anyway. That's good to embed. Let's be with our body in bed. Sitting in a chair. Walking all whatever postures.

[87:27]

We're trying to be. Let the body be settled into the body. And. Learn to never skip over that. Make that the foundation. For the mind and the mind. I'll try that. Hopefully I'll remember it the next time. Some apparent. I pray for it. I pray. The more you remember it moment by moment in. Non catastrophic moments. The more likely you'll be able to remember it in catastrophe. So. Yeah. I'm part of what I'm trusting. Is that training my body. To be in my body. Now. Promotes me being able to train. To be with my body in my body. If I lose my mind. Even if I can't remember. My body remembers to be in my body.

[88:30]

Like that example I gave of that. 105 year old lady playing the piano. She doesn't know. She probably doesn't know what a piano is anymore. Or who she is. But her body, because she settled her body. So many times. For most of us to be thrown into the middle of playing. A piano concerto would be like. Overwhelmingly. Catastrophe. But by training, she could. She could be there in the intensity. Of that, of that piano playing. So that's why we have to train. We have to physically train ourselves. Now. Okay. Okay. Thank you. No, no, [...] no. May our intention equally extend to every being in place. With the true merit of Buddha way. Beings are numberless.

[89:32]

We vow to save them. Afflictions are inexhaustible. We vow to cut through. Dharma gates are boundless. We vow to enter them. Buddha way is unsurpassable. We bow to become it. Thank you everybody for a wonderful series of meetings. Thank you, everybody. Again, may we meet again? Good night. Everyone good night. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Good night, everyone.

[90:20]

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