I'd like to continue to discuss the relationship between the practice of Zen and the Bodhisattva precepts. over the reaching of Zen, touching Zen, and the bodhisattva precepts. A lot's been said about what Zen practice is, but during this practice period I've been emphasizing that Zen practice is dropping off body-mind.

[01:07]

And I'm feeling now that the precepts are also, the bodhisattva precepts are also dropping off body and mind, shedding body and mind. And also, as I mentioned, I think the last time I talked here on Wednesday night, that the dropping off of body and mind occurs in the context of the dropped off body and mind. Okay?

[02:35]

Did you catch that? The dropping off of body and mind, the shedding of body and mind occurs in the context of the shed, the dropped off body and mind. It occurs in the context of the body and mind that's already dropped off. Okay? And the drop-drop body and mind is, there's various names for that drop-drop body and mind. Do you have any names that you'd like to use for it? Nonverbal group. Suchness. Suchness. You can use suchness. I would use, tonight, Buddha. Buddha is the drop-drop body and mind. And so touching Buddha is, the practice of Zen, is the dropping off of body and mind.

[03:41]

Dropping off body and mind, one is meeting Buddha. Buddha is a body and mind that's dropped off. It's not dropping off, it's dropped off. it drops off as practitioners who used to be not dropped off, who were holding on to their bodies and mind as though holding on was like life and letting go is death. Whereas holding on is actually just suffering and letting go is Zen practice. But also, I think I've said a number of times, letting go is not something that you do, or that I do, or that Buddha does. Even Buddha didn't get to drop off her body and mind. But Buddha's body and mind dropped off. And part of the Buddha's teaching in some neighborhoods is that there are dropped off bodies and minds.

[04:48]

In other words, there are Buddhas who have realized the drop-drop body and mind. And those Buddhas just happen to be right here, right now, all around us, practicing with us. And I also said last time, and I'd like to say it again, that Buddhas that are practicing with us, they're not just practicing with us, but they're not, they're practicing really closely with us, they're not actually, they have no separate existence from us. We think, some of us think, that we have separate existence from something. Like, I don't know what. Do any of you think you have a separate existence from something? Oh, two people, that's good. Three, four. So some people think they have a separate existence from their enemies, from pirates, mass murderers, drug pushers, child abusers, sex fiends.

[06:06]

Some people think they have a separate existence from those creatures. Some people even think they have a separate existence from their mother. Some people are just trying to have a separate discussion. But some people actually think they have a separate existence from Buddha, that Buddha's apart from oneself. But that's not how I feel. I don't think there's such a thing. I don't think the Buddhas are apart from us. How I understand Buddha is Buddhas are totally dropped-off bodies and minds.

[07:06]

They're really like having a body and mind beyond the delusion of attachment. And they're with us all the time and they have no life but us. And we have no life but them. And so we're practicing together with each other and with all Buddhas. And if you don't know that, if you don't understand that and know that all the Buddhas are practicing with you right now, if you don't know that, don't worry. Because it's got nothing to do with you knowing it or not knowing it. If you do know it, it's okay. If you're completely convinced and completely certain that the Buddhas are practicing with you all the time, and you're just like... I wouldn't say wallow exactly, but if you're like... swimming in the certainty that you're practicing together with Buddhas right now, I think that's fine.

[08:08]

Bathing in it. resting in it, like resting, you're sitting in Buddha's lap right now, or you're sitting in Buddha's eyeball right now, that's fine, if you know that. If you don't know that, it doesn't really matter to me. It's got nothing to do with you knowing it. Some people do know it. Now, if you don't know it, then I'm not into blind faith, but anyway, if you're not completely certain, let's just say, for example, that I wasn't certain. or let's say I was certain sometimes and not certain other times, if I wasn't certain, if I was like in a not certain mood that I was practicing, I was practicing together with all Buddhas and all Buddhas were practicing together with me and all of you, if I wasn't certain, I would still be sort of like betting my life on it anyway. That's my faith. So whether I'm feeling certain or not feeling certain,

[09:16]

When I practice Zen, I'm practicing with that, that's my understanding. When I'm practicing Zen, I'm just practicing together with all Buddhas and all the enlightened beings are not apart from me. And I'm not doing the practice, we're doing it. And we together are the doing of the practice, because we together are the drop-drop body and mind. Me by myself is holding on to the body and mind, but all of us together is the drop-drop body and mind that is the practice. Now, how does this relate to the precepts? Well, infinite ways, but one way is that particularly I'd like to emphasize the first pure precept, which is the precept of embracing and sustaining the regulations and ceremonies, and the regulations and ceremonies, what's meant by that is the regulations and ceremonies of

[10:39]

the group of people that you're practicing with, the group of beings that you're practicing with. If the redwood trees have ceremonies and rituals and you're practicing with them, then it's embracing and sustain those ceremonies. If you're practicing in a Zen center, it's those ceremonies. If you're practicing someplace else, it's those ceremonies. But anyway, the way you're practicing together with beings is the first pure precept. And I've talked about this before, but anyway, basically these are forms in the world that are presented, and then these are ways that your body and mind can meet the bodies and minds of others. Yes? It's the way your bodies and minds can meet the bodies and minds of others who are practicing with you right now in this place, but also you're meeting the bodies and minds of the ancestors because they did these same forms.

[11:46]

You're also meeting the bodies and minds of redwoods and dogs and everything else too, but Basically it's you, your body and mind. It's your body and mind and the form. And when you perfectly meet the form, you perfectly meet all beings. Now, if you perfectly met one other being, you would perfectly meet the form. So, for example, putting the hands together into this mudra, which is called joining the palms, or palms joined. Gassho means palms joined. Putting the hands together in the way that the ancestors did, which are conveyed to you by your local ancestor. You do that form, and when you do that form, when you meet that form, and there's just your body and mind, it's not even you anymore.

[12:57]

It's your body and mind are this form. When that happens, you meet all beings and all Buddhas. Now, if you should happen to meet a Buddha... Like you're meeting a Buddha, and you're really meeting a Buddha, so that there's just meeting Buddha. There's not you and Buddha. There's just meeting Buddha. And also, Buddha is also just meeting Buddha. Buddha's meeting Buddha, and Buddha's meeting Buddha. In that case, if you happen to have your hands together, then if you were perfectly meeting Buddha, so that there was just Buddha meeting Buddha, then your hands would be, this mudra would be perfectly your hands as this mudra. Your hands would just be this mudra. They wouldn't be you and the mudra, or you and your hands, or you and your mind, or your mind and the mudra. You know, it wouldn't be all this different stuff like mind, mudra, hand, attachments and all that.

[14:03]

They would just be the form. Or they would just be your body and mind. Like this. which is the same as meeting Buddha. If you met anybody, any being, and there was just the meeting, and it wasn't you and the being, but just the meeting, then that's meeting Buddha. That's practicing together with Buddha, and that is this precept. Now, if there's not meeting, then there's the hands, then there's the form, there's the mudra, plus something. Namely, usually, me. Or you. There's you doing the mudra. And there's you doing the mudra really well. Or there's you doing the mudra kind of like, this is stupid, why am I doing this mudra? Or there's you doing the mudra like...

[15:04]

I don't want to do the mudra the way they're doing the mudra. I'm going to do it better than them. And there's you doing the mudra the way your teacher taught you. There's you doing the mudra wholeheartedly. There's you doing the mudra half-heartedly. In other words, there's some resistance. And the resistance can be by overdoing it or underdoing it. By being kind of like the bad girl in the group. I'm not going to do this mudra like those other, like, weirdos, or they can be like, I'm doing the mudra like, you know, like, you know, like Suzuki Roshi did, and these other people are, like, they're really sloppy. And, you know, I don't know how much longer I'm going to be able to tolerate these people, and they're sloppy mudras. But anyway, there's you and the mudra and you and the people and maybe not you and the Buddha, maybe.

[16:05]

I'm together with the Buddha, but I'm not with these other people. If this form happens and it's just that form, there's not anything in addition to it. There's not like your body and this form. I mean, your body's in this form or it's not. If it's in this form, that's your body. You don't have a different body, you've got this one. It's got the hands in this mudra, that's your body. When your hands are together, your feet are in this mudra. Your feet aren't together necessarily, they might be on the ground, but your feet are connected to this mudra, so your feet are in this mudra, your heart's in this mudra, your eyes are in this mudra, your mind's in this mudra, your whole being's in this mudra, and there's not a self in addition to this. That's called dropping off body and mind. In other words, it's a body and mind, but it doesn't have the delusion of a self on top of the body and mind.

[17:09]

It's the body and mind beyond delusion. It's the dropped-off body and mind which touches and meets the dropped-off body and mind. But it takes, you know, it takes a while, maybe, to... you know, find the way of doing the, put the hands together, see where the hands come, to find the way that the hands come together, to find, discover the way the hands come together when there's not any holding onto body and mind. In other words, there's no, there's no delusion of something in addition to this. It takes a while to not resist this form at all. And just, hands joined. But that's the practice of that precept, is to adopt this one, this particular form, this particular ceremony, until you find that place where it happens with no resistance, with no holding out, with no self-attachment, with no attachment to body and mind, just the mudra.

[18:22]

And that's it. That's how that precept is dropping body and mind. That's how that precept, and dropping body and mind is the place we meet the dropped off body and mind, the place we meet Buddha. And the self is there, it's just the self isn't, you know, holding on to anything. It's not anything in addition to Buddha or the mudra. Okay? And so we have other forms too, like we have a schedule. Schedule is the same thing. Got a body and mind in the schedule. Same thing. It takes a while to find that way that that body and the schedule are... There isn't actually a schedule floating out there in mid-air aside from our bodies and minds. Did you know that? Some human being with their hand or something makes a schedule and puts it on the board.

[19:23]

You might think the schedule's up on the board and that's over there and I'm over here. But that's just a piece of paper. you know, that's not really the schedule. But when we look at that piece of paper, there's a schedule. Because our body and mind meets that piece of paper, then schedule dependently co-arises, and the question is, is there you in the schedule? Well, sometimes it seems to be that way, right? Like, there's my body and mind, and then now this schedule's happening. But no, there's no schedule separate from your body and mind. You say, well, I think actually there's other people in the schedule and there's me. Maybe they're with the schedule, but I'm not. So that's called not practicing Zen. When you think that the schedule's one thing and you're another. That's also not practicing Zen, and it's also some other things, too. Like, it is delusion. And it goes in the same camp as me and Buddha are separate.

[20:28]

So I'm separate from the schedule is the same as I'm separate from Buddha. I'm just the schedule, and the schedule is just me, is that I'm not separate from Buddha. And it's also my body and mind. Beyond the delusion that there's a schedule that's separate from me. And, you know, there is some suspicion that this is just some kind of like, what do you call it, of the masses, this is a way to get at least a small group of people on the planet under control. These little enclaves in various mountain areas where, you know, some oriental people got the western people under control. So we're not going out there inventing computers and beating them out in the marketplace. So Dogen says, the Zen teacher says, when the assembly is sitting, sit with them.

[21:37]

Sit. As the assembly lies down, lie down. In activity and stillness, at one with the community. Throughout deaths and births, do not separate from the monastery. Standing out has no benefit. Being different from others is not our conduct. Our is, you know, Zen masters talking. The action or acting in accord with our fellow monks is the action of the whole body of the Buddha ancestors.

[22:44]

What if all the other monks are late for Zazen? Does that mean you have to be late? Not necessarily. But if you're on time and they're all late, you still act in accord with them. you're still not separate from them, even though you happen to get the zendo before them and they're all standing outside waiting to get in. Because they're late. But you're not standing out from them. You're not separate from them. You're not acting differently. You don't see it that way. Even when the Eno gives you a merit badge... This is the Buddha ancestors' skin, flesh, bones and marrow. That means the whole body of the Buddha ancestors. It's also one's body and mind dropped off to act together with the group, to act in accord with the group, to not be different.

[23:52]

Therefore engaging in practice and enlightenment before the empty eon. Do not be concerned with your own actualization. Do not wait for great realization. Don't wait because this is it. This is great realization. To be living with people and to not be better than them, and to not be worse than them, and to not be different from them, and to not be the same as them. rather just be practicing together as your body and mind. This is the first pure precept. This is also practicing Zen. All the precepts, each precept is the same thing of dropped-out body and mind, but I emphasize this one because this is the one that's particularly emphasized in the practice period, because we have these forms and regulations and ceremonies which we can do together, and there are opportunities to meet the Buddha together with all beings.

[25:12]

And for this meeting to be not a matter of whether you know or not that this meeting is happening. So even if you don't know, you can sit with confidence that this is the practice. Whether you think you can see the Buddhas all around everybody or not, it is. You are healing the world when you practice this way. You are healing the wound in the world when you practice this way, whether you know it or not. Well, maybe that's enough, unless you wanted to bring something up or something like that. Yes? You talk about meeting the Buddha.

[26:15]

But if there's any meeting, my understanding is bringing two things together. But if there's no separateness, how can you meet? Oh, I see. If there's no separateness, how can you meet? Right. Oh. I don't know. I guess you can't meet then, because there's no separateness. So I guess there's no meeting. Sorry. There's just Buddha. But even though there's no separateness, we've got to put on this little show like there's two Buddhas. So that's why we have this show here where there seems to be more than one Buddha in the room. but they're not really separate. So I guess if they're not separate, then they can't meet. But they can practice together. Can they practice together if they're not separate?

[27:18]

By definition. They can't, unless they're separate? They would be practicing together. If they're not separate? Oh, good. So we can practice together, but we can't meet, because we're not separate. So we have to stop meaning like this. But we can practice together, fortunately. Hi. Was that meeting or was that just being together? In the past you talked about full self-expression. Can you talk about not being different and full self-expression? Yes, I could. Can you? I'm having a hard time. Oh, okay. Well, not being different is full self-expression. Did you just quiver, Patty? Was that full self-expression?

[28:27]

Yeah. Was it being separate? No. It wasn't. Being different is partial expression. Being different is resistance. Resistance of what? resisting the other, resisting the other. So I would say full self-expression is only possible by meeting, by practicing together. You can be by yourself, okay, I'm separate from those other turkeys. I'm like, I am a Zen student or I'm not a Zen student. Let's say I'm not a Zen student. I'm separate from those Zen students. I'm different from those Zen students. I'm different from the Buddhas. I would say that's partial self-expression.

[29:29]

Because if you're different from Buddhas, you don't have to ever talk to them or have lunch with them. And you didn't say to the Buddha, you know, you're not talking to the Buddha because you're different. You're not going to check it out and say, I'm different from you, but I just wanted to come and tell you that I'm different from you. And the Buddha can say, well, what do you mean? I don't understand. Let's talk about this. I don't agree. I think you're deluded. Only by meeting... and interacting and being obstructed by the other, can you express yourself fully? Of course you can express yourself a little bit all by yourself, but you've already got that, right? This thing about being alone and expressing yourself alone, everybody does that, right? Is that clear? Now, okay, you got that down. That's some expression, but now do it with somebody who you think is somebody.

[30:33]

And do it in ways that they don't necessarily agree with. Not just to disagree, but if you express yourself this way, and then that [...] way, you're going to start eventually running into some place where they're going to obstruct you. Why are they going to obstruct you? Because you're expressing yourself so fully. And you're like, your togetherness is starting to be like, you know, there's some kind of like, what do you call it, some interface is starting to manifest because you're expressing yourself so fully. And you almost feel like, like almost you can't express yourself fully. But if you never feel, if you're never expressing yourself and then you feel like your expression is like a little bit hindered or obstructed, if you never express yourself enough to get that feeling, you haven't lived. You haven't lived.

[31:40]

You haven't lived. You haven't expressed yourself. Sometimes you can express yourself and nobody says, hey, wait a minute. It sometimes happens. Sometimes you express yourself and everybody goes, oh, terrific, swell, you know, that's great. It does happen that way, and that's self-expression. So that counts, okay? Get it checked. Self-expression. You do it again, they say, great, self-expression, this adds up, you know. And then you do it over here and they say, no, you have your hand in my mouth, get away. Or don't swear in this room. Don't talk like that to your mother. Why did that happen? It's because you said something. Now, before you said that, nobody said don't talk to your mother. Still, you were expressing yourself. It's not that you're not expressing yourself. It's just that if you do, you're going to run into something eventually, something significant. You're going to run into somebody who's going to meet you and push back because they're expressing themselves too.

[32:43]

You do this with somebody who's also expressing himself, okay? And then you get this interaction thing. So if you stand out or you're different, you don't find out the kind of self-expression that happens when you're not different, when what you do, the other person is like, you do this and that's their life. Wait a second, I thought that was me. Well, yeah, no, but it's me. Well, it's sort of you, but like I said, you have your hand in my eye. Or you thought you changed your plans. Oh, yeah, well, you just moved my liver. What are you talking about I moved your liver? My airplane change, my airplane plans, my schedule changes your blood? Yeah. Wow. This is like not being different. But if you don't express yourself fully, people won't have this kind of reaction to you.

[33:44]

just keep yourself just partially expressing yourself, then everybody, then you might, I shouldn't say that people won't, but they might not tell you and show you that you're not different from them, that your life and what you do is like just about the same as their life, that your body is just about the same as their body, because you're expressing yourself in such a way that their body is obviously moved, touched, changed, but actually born by you. That their body is born by your body because you're expressing yourself so fully. So again, if you express yourself as a mother, it's a pretty full self-expression vis-a-vis this baby, vis-a-vis life. I mean, you're making a baby. It's a kind of a big deal, don't you think? for a body to make another body.

[34:47]

This is like full self-expression. And that baby's kind of like pushing back. The baby's pushing on you and you're pushing on the baby and you push on each other until there's two people. So mothers really express themselves really fully and that's part of the reason why some people want to be mothers is because because of this full self-expression that happens there. But they can't do it and being different from this baby. Being different from this baby is like, it's really a weird way to talk about a mother and a baby. We do that, but isn't that kind of weird to say that the baby's not different from the mother? The baby's the mother's body, sort of, isn't it? The mother eats the food, the mother digests the food, and the baby gives it. Isn't that kind of like the baby's like the mother's body? Like the mother's knee or the mother's heart or the mother's uterus or the mother's placenta?

[35:51]

Or maybe is it the baby's placenta? And is it the baby's body? And is it the baby's uterus? And is it the baby's heart? Whose is whose, you know? So anyway, this is kind of called what's called full self-expression. And you can't do that if you're different from the other person. If you still keep entertaining this thing that you're different, you haven't really got into the expression yet. And again, the way that they tell you that you're not different oftentimes is by disagreeing with you and pushing back and saying, I don't like you. And sometimes the baby pushes back on the mother as, I don't like your mother. But that's not because they're different. That's because they're not different. And it's because the mother is expressing herself as the mother and the baby is expressing herself as the baby. Does that make sense now? But if you're separate, then you think, oh, I'm expressing myself, blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean, if you're living in a world where you're separate and you're expressing yourself and you're living in a world where you're different, then you just do it.

[36:57]

Nobody says anything to you and you think, see, I'm different, yes, and I'm expressing myself, yeah, but not fully, not fully. Do it fully and you will find out you're not different because other people will start, they'll start getting, they'll start participating in your life. They'll start saying stuff like, geez, this is really great. Do that three more times. I said three. They'll say, don't do that ever again. Why? Because my life's getting pushed around by your expression. Wow. You mean like my expression is your life? Like we're not different? Right. Don't express yourself that fully. Hmm. Not that way. Well, you already did it anyway. You might not do it again because they said not to but Anyway, you just did express yourself pretty fully when people start telling you that they don't like what you're doing And this is a big problem How to work this out and I used to go to prison and a lot of the people in that prison were like people express themselves and

[38:14]

There was something good about those people, that they had a lot of energy that they were expressing, even if they usually were under the sponsorship of various chemicals to make this expression. If they could have made that expression without the chemicals, it would have been, I think, more... It probably would have been different. But anyway, they couldn't express themselves without getting... They weren't different enough from the other people so the other people didn't say, okay, you've got to go to prison now. You're not different enough. You're not different. You're just doing something we don't like and you've got to stop expressing yourself that way and we're going to gang up on you and put you in jail now. But that's because they're expressing themselves, but not fully. Not fully. Again, I think if you fully express yourself, although you will get some pushing back, you will also practice these precepts Because again, it takes full self-expression to put the hands together in such a way that this is so full that you seek nothing more than this.

[39:25]

You're completely satisfied putting your hands together into this mudra. All your energy is actually here doing this. So that's full self-expression and it's not different from you and the mudra aren't different and you and other beings aren't different and everybody's supporting you and you're meeting that support. That's how there's no difference. Okay? Yes? So are the Bodhisattva precepts I guess these guidelines of the Bodhisattva It's kind of a way to learn how to put one's hands in a gassho without sticking your hand in somebody's eye.

[40:29]

Not necessarily. Because sometimes sticking your hand in somebody's eye is good if they've got something in there that you should pull out. Except in that case. Yeah. So it's not so much that you do the hand mudra so that you don't stick your hand in somebody's eye. You do the hand mudra so that nobody's harmed. That's what I mean. Okay. I meant presumably having a fist in somebody's eye. But of course, sometimes it's good. The point is anyway, like, see this fist? It's in my eyes. Fine, isn't it? No problem. Actually, it feels good. Try it. Do you want me to put my fist in your eye? Please. So it's not so much that doing the mudra means so that you won't do something else. It means you do the mudra so you just do the mudra. But then after that you might put your fist in somebody's eye. But if you do it in the same spirit that you just do the mudra,

[41:30]

The mudra won't harm anybody and putting your fist in the eye won't harm. If you do the fist the same way as you do the mudra. Okay? Won't harm. Harming beings is partial self-expression. Because it's easy to harm beings. I think it's kind of easy to harm beings. It's easy to sort of think that you're partially expressing yourself and that you're harming beings. But to interact with beings that doesn't harm them, that takes all of your body and mind to work that out with somebody. Now again, if you stay away from people, that harms them. It harms people to stay away from them, you know, like to withdraw and not meet, to not interact, that harms other people. It certainly harms you. In other words, you don't have a life. But if you interact with people in a way that you actually interact with people, you actually like interacting intimately and not harming, that takes all you've got as a human being.

[42:36]

That's our greatest thing, is to be close to somebody and not hurt them. And many of us have been hurt because we were close to somebody and got hurt. Like our father or our mother, we were close, we were close, but we got hurt. We got hurt because there wasn't full self-expression. But to be close and not get hurt, there is full self-expression. To be close and get hurt, there isn't full self-expression. So in the past, we've gotten hurt or we've hurt. We've hurt people or we've gotten hurt. Some of us, right? Some of us have hurt people. Some of us have gotten hurt. And some of us have both hurt people and gotten hurt. And usually when we hurt people, we're close to them because you've got to get close to hurting them. You have to touch them, basically, with your hands or with your mouth, with your words or by making gestures.

[43:43]

But you actually touch them then. Visually, you touch them. So in the past, we have been close to people and we've gotten hurt and we've hurt them. So many of us decided, okay, well, just don't get near people anymore. Then you won't be able to hurt them. Then they won't be able to hurt you, right? Well, that's called not having a life. Now we have to learn, how can we get close again but not hurt? As a matter of fact, not only not hurt, but benefit. So this gassho is a way to be close to people. That's my feeling. I've been practicing for a while now, and I've been doing this thing with other people, and I feel this is a way for me to be close to people. I feel I do this with people. You've done this with me, right? All of you have done this with me just about. We do this thing, right? And aren't we close when we do this? Actually, we're like close. Like at least we can see each other usually. And we both do this to each other, go boom, boom, boom.

[44:47]

We're close and we don't hurt each other and we even help each other. It's even kind of like, well, that's nice. Thank you. Thank you for that. You did that. Thanks. You did it sort of for me. You did it sort of for you. You did it sort of for the whole universe. And we did that together. This was like not harmful and beneficial and close. Right? But we're a little bit afraid of this kind of thing because we have some history of being close and hurting. Now we're trying to find a way to be close and not hurt. And the way we do this is by full self-expression. It actually hurts a little bit when people do this thing half-heartedly. You ever have anybody do a half-hearted bow to you? It hurts a little bit, doesn't it? Sometimes it hurts a little more than a little bit for somebody who couldn't go... Don't do that again, please.

[45:57]

Please stop bowing to me like that. I'm not saying that to control you, I'm just expressing myself. Please don't bother me like that anymore. Give me a nice one, please. We could get into this now, you know, like find a schedule too. You know, there's a schedule and somebody goes, You know, you're following the schedule, and your friend's kind of going, oh, schedule, yeah. You go sit in a zendo, you know, and then other people are kind of wandering around up in the hall someplace, kind of like, oh, yeah, those are really cool. It hurts a little bit. Well, it hurts because we're not different, you know. But it's very touchy to bring this up. One time, you know, I'm bringing it up.

[46:59]

It's touchy, isn't it? Before the bell, that second bell rang, about 15 people out there. That's quite a few. It was a pretty big session, but still, 15 is a lot. That's like, you know, almost 20%. Somehow couldn't arrange their schedule. They had other things to do here at Green Gulch. I don't know what. Anyway, like 15 of them standing in a hall. And the next day I think maybe there was like 15. I don't remember exactly. And maybe the next day there were 15. And then like I think the third or fourth day of Sashin, like I went there, you know, to the entryway there, you know, there was like nobody there. It's like zero. Nobody was like, everybody was in the zendo before that bell rang. I don't know what happened.

[48:00]

I don't remember giving like a talk like, you know, please come to the zendo. Or like, did you know that coming on time is like, you know, you're going to get paid for that. I don't think, I don't remember anything, any special encouragement, but I walked, I came in there and like, you know. It's a I come around the corner, you know, and they're like, there's this big, huge, empty space. Like this nice, clean little area, you know, it's like just all shiny and not sort of the light, you can see the light, you know, because it's not covered by these bodies with the rope. This is huge, open, this space, you know, and the doors open and you, where are they? You go in there and they're in the zendo. I couldn't help, it felt good. It felt good that, my God, that every one of them got in there. Now, of course, statistically, this happens sometimes. Like almost everybody, somehow they found out it was hurting me.

[49:01]

Yes, I think they found out somehow. Yeah, they did find out. Maybe somehow they found out. Because, in fact, it was happening in the universe that it did hurt me a little bit that this mob was out there day after day. I didn't say anything. I didn't say anything. I promise I didn't say anything. I didn't complain. But it hurt. And maybe they saw my little aching heart and... But anyway, there they were, and the space was there, and I was just like, I was really touched that like 80 people got in there and got in their seats before that bell rang. It's just amazing. It's an amazing thing that 80 people... Even though they came here to do the session and specifically signed up and some of them said, please let me in, please let me in. Please make some space for me. Can I please?

[50:02]

Even though they did that and they had the whole week off just to follow the schedule, still, that they all did it. It was really impressive. And to me, it felt really good to come in that room and like, boom, you know, there they were. Just 80 people, boom, in their seats. It's amazing when it happens. And it felt really like, well, this is Buddha, you know, this is Buddha. For the moment, anyway, this is Buddha, that this happens. So then, during lecture that day, I mentioned, you know, I was really touched by everybody being on time. And that really hurt somebody for me to say that because she thought, even though she was one of the people who was on time, she felt like it was still this kind of like this, I don't know what it was, the parental or the authority saying, that was good. And it hurt her. She really didn't like me saying how much I liked that.

[51:09]

But although it hurt her, I don't think it hurt her. I don't think it harmed her. I don't think so. But maybe it did. Maybe I didn't really do that right. But we're not different. And if we express ourselves, we do touch each other by almost everything we do, if we express ourselves. If we express ourselves partly, we don't notice how intimately we're connected. And it's not easy to feel how intimate that is and to see how every little thing you do has an effect. Every little thing you do fully touches the whole world. Things you do partially don't seem that way. But it's also wonderful to be in that world where You know, this kind of like, the whole world moves your hand and you move the whole world back and forth like that.

[52:17]

So that's what that precepts are about. Yes? So why are we limited to ten or sixteen? Pardon? Why do we stop at sixteen precepts? Oh, why not just have one? Right. Why have even sixteen precepts? It's for fun. You can just have one preceptor, you can have 16, or you can have a zillion. But I think one of the reasons for, like I mentioned before, in terms of our precept lineage, there's different ways of looking at the precept. One is the Vinaya way, early Buddhist way of the Vinaya, which has five precepts for lay people. And then they take eight when they go in the monastery for a retreat.

[53:21]

And it has ten for a novice monk or nun. And then it has 250 for a full monk and 343 for a full nun. That's the Vinaya rules. And then there's the Bodhisattva precepts. In the traditional bodhisattva precepts in China and India, one of the most traditional presentations had 58, 10 major and 48 minor. And the 10 major precepts of the 58 bodhisattva precepts from the Brahmajala Sutra, those 10 are our 10 great precepts. And I was studying these with some people recently, and they were saying, you know, what about these 48? And we looked at them, you know, and they are kind of complicated. Interesting, but complicated. So in some ways, it might be a skill and means to give a smaller group because it's easier for people to receive them.

[54:34]

Like people don't have so much a problem with, not killing as they do with not respecting seniors. I should say not killing or not not respecting seniors or not eating meat or some of the other rules are a little bit hard for people to maybe accept. I posted it, but then I took it down because I wanted to repost it. I couldn't repost it unless I took it down, so I took it down. But now I'll repost it. As a matter of fact, I'll post it as soon... Did you retype it yet, Diana? Yeah. Number 38 was missing, so... I found number 38, so now we'll repost them.

[55:37]

So maybe tomorrow you can see the 58 Bodhisattva precepts, and then you can really see why we have 10. Anything else you want to bring up tonight? Gary? Can you talk about the dynamic between full expression and not harming? Earlier, I thought I heard you say if you're likely to get resistance and then the issue when that becomes a perception of harming and just kind of dealing with that. I find myself perhaps withholding full expression from fear of harming. Right. Yeah. Right. So, again, you know, like... what do you call it, my liberty is somebody else's, I don't know what, what's it, somebody else's oppression. So if I swing my arms out like this without taking into account Jeremy, I could like put my hand too close to his face and he might feel like, you know, don't put your hand so close to my face without talking to me.

[56:42]

Right? So I'm being very liberal, but then I'm sort of taking up some of his space if I swing my arms without checking with him beforehand. So my own personal experience has been that for some part of my life, I was editing myself a lot. I was editing myself. I was assuming, well, he doesn't want me to stretch my arm out like this, so I won't. Right? And I'm not saying that wasn't full self-expression, but the problem was is that it left out me asking him what he thought. Because maybe he doesn't mind if I go like this. Do you mind if I go like this? Not all the time. Not right now? I don't mind. You don't mind all the time? I don't mind all the time. It's okay now? Yeah. So I'm going like this, right? So I check with him. And I think that part of learning about full self-expression is that you sometimes do go too far. Because you have to go too far sometimes.

[57:49]

Too far means you go, not necessarily too far, but you go far enough so somebody says, don't do that, please, or I don't like that. Doesn't necessarily mean you harm them. But anyway, you go far enough so that they give you feedback. So then you let other people edit you. So if I'm going like this and Jeremy says, I don't want you to do that, it's not that difficult for me not to do that anymore. But then I'm not editing anymore. I'm just doing it differently because he told me he doesn't want to do it. So I go like this or like this rather than like that. So part of it is by the feedback you get from people, your behavior is modified. But editing myself, I often would edit things that you wouldn't even mind. So I'm wasting my time editing myself and I'm sort of like assuming that I know what you don't want me to do Meantime, by doing that, I also harm you because I'm not expressing myself in certain ways that you might like.

[58:51]

And I'm holding back in a lot of ways that I'm determining rather than you. I'm not giving you a chance to say that. So part of my full self-expression is to say to you, please give me feedback on what I'm doing. And I'm not necessarily going to ask you before I do everything I do, but I'm asking you to give me feedback when I do do things. So part of full self-expression is to ask people to help you. If you don't ask people to help you, you won't be able to express yourself fully. We need to invite people to help us otherwise they might not and if they don't we're not going to be able to to do it because when we express ourselves and even if we hurt them they might not say anything to us and actually if I hurt somebody and they don't tell me I'm really hurt I get hurt really by them not telling me but they won't tell me if they don't think I want to hear but if I tell somebody I want to hear and then I hurt them and they tell me then this is part of the process that would accomplish

[59:57]

our ultimate good is that we find a way for both of us to express ourselves fully and not harm each other. But how are we going to do that except by expressing ourselves and giving each other feedback? I don't know of another way. It's a little rough, but that seems to be the way we have to go. Now maybe you could always try to be a little bit short of expressing yourself fully and then have everybody helping you and telling you whenever you didn't come far enough. You know, you were just a little short of doing something I wouldn't have liked. You might be able to get it that way, but I think to always be like holding back and doing it less, you know, did that hurt you that I didn't say thank you very much with much, you know, enthusiasm? But you can say thank you too loudly, right? And you can say it too softly. Both can hurt. And we need feedback on both of them. Okay, does that make sense?

[61:01]

Basically, the basic thing is, please, this is me talking. I'm not speaking for everybody, but this is me talking. I'm saying to you, I'm saying to you, please express yourself fully. I want you to do that to me. This is one person who wants you to fully express yourself. That's what I want. I want it. Please do it. I want it. Do it to me fully. And it may hurt me, but I don't want you to hurt me. I want you to fully express yourself. And if in the process of trying to fully express yourself you hurt me, I accept that. I'm willing to pay the price of getting hurt to have people fully express themselves to me. And people have expressed themselves pretty fully to me and I have gotten hurt and I still want to go that way. So I'm not asking you to hurt me. I'm asking you to give me completely fully yourself. That's what I'm asking for.

[62:05]

I also accept If you don't give me yourself, you partially express yourself, that also hurts me. It doesn't necessarily hurt me more, but it also hurts me. But that's not what I'm asking for. I'm not asking for you hurting me by partially expressing yourself. But actually, you don't partially express yourself. When you hold back, you fully express yourself by cheating me of who you are. And that hurts. And I accept that form of self-expression too. But I have different things to comment on in that case, like, you know, please express yourself more, fully. So express yourself, express yourself, express yourself, please. And that's part that you have to do that in order for body and mind to be realized as dropped off. It doesn't cause body and mind dropping off, it's just that body and mind are dropping off, and if you're expressing yourself fully, you're there.

[63:16]

So you get to be there for the realization party. Express yourself, it's later than you think. Express yourself while you're still in the pink. Express yourself, express yourself, it's later than you think. Express yourself while you're still in the pink. Did I sing that in England? I did a retreat in England and Maité was there. And at the end I asked people to express themselves. And not everybody there was English, but these English people expressed themselves.

[64:23]

And there were some English people who were like really nervous how expressive these other English people were. Like one English person was there and she said to the other English people, You people have blown my cover. I've been telling people that I didn't express myself because I'm English. But this other lady was there, and she was like, she was watching these, she was English, and she was watching these other English people expressing themselves so fully, and she was like sweating. God, what's going to happen next? They were pretty expressive, don't you think, for English people? For Spanish people, nothing. One time I was riding to the airport, you know. English people have a bad reputation even in England for being expressive among the non-English who live in England.

[65:29]

It's not true. They're very expressive. They're totally expressing themselves as English people. But Greek people and Italian people and Spanish people, that's not their kind of expression, the way the English do it. But the English are completely expressing themselves. They have this thing, they express this thing called the stiff upper lip and they can really do it. They have a stiffer lip than any people. I was riding at the airport and I had a Greek cab driver And somebody in the cab said to the Greek cab driver, what do you think of the English? How long have you been here? He said, I've been here a long time. He said, what do you think of the English? He said, they're OK. He said, do you think they're warm? He said, they're frozen. But that's what a Greek said. Because the way the Greeks express themselves is not the same way necessarily as the English. But the English do express themselves. And sometimes they do it fully.

[66:31]

And when they do it fully, body and mind is dropped off. And the way they do it, though, is not necessarily the same way as Americans do. But when Americans express themselves fully, body and mind is dropped off. So please express yourself. in, you know, in the context that you're in. And you're in a Zen practice place, so let's express ourselves in the Zen practice place with these Zen practitioners. Okay? Okay. Would you be ready? Pardon? Would you be ready? I want to be ready. I don't know if I will be ready. Part of being ready is I don't think about being ready. If I think about whether I'm being ready, I have a bad life. Will I be ready for these people when they come now?

[67:34]

They're going to come and express themselves. Will I be ready? If I think of that, I want to get out of here. So I don't think about it. I don't think about it. And therefore, maybe I could be ready. Just each moment. Here's another one. And another one. Here's another one. And I don't think about whether I'll be ready in the next one, okay? But we might have a little ceremony called a readiness ceremony. I think that the fool will come and ask you if you want to do it. It's called a readiness ceremony. There's no file for that one. There's no file? Sometimes they call it a shosan ceremony. And shosan ceremony, you know shosan? Sho means little and san means meeting. It's a small meeting. It's a little meeting.

[68:35]

It's a little meeting between you and the person you meet, who's not separate from you, therefore you can't meet. And you do the meeting in front of everybody, one by one. You come up and meet. So that's a Shosan ceremony. Sounds like fun. Could be. Could be. Could be. So if you want to come... A fool will ask you if you want to do it, but if you don't want to do it, we're not going to do it. Because I don't want to force people into such a fun thing.

[69:11]

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