Yesterday we had a blessing ceremony, and I wanted to tell you about another blessing ceremony that will be happening maybe on Tuesday night, this coming Tuesday at about 7.30. And it will be a blessing of a practice place, a new practice place, which is right over the hill from this temple, and this is, if I may say, an experimental monastic practice place, where two disciples of Buddha are currently living and trying to find a way to live there monastically. The name of the place used to be called Noah Bode Monastery or something like that, the

[01:06]

name has been changed to Mind of Noah Bode Monastery, and it might change again, but anyway, you're invited to come to this blessing ceremony at 7.30. If you want to find out how to get there, you could ask Bert, who is now your assistant. It's been changed to Wednesday night, at 7.30. Another thing I wanted to mention to you is that I'm married to a Chinese person,

[02:08]

so she points out to me that my Chinese calligraphy is really not suitable for wide distribution, and I don't disagree with her, but anyway, I do it just as something to give to people, because even though the calligraphy is not good, it has my heart in it, because it does. And so I did some calligraphy, and the calligraphy I did is the calligraphy for the Zen meditation of meeting whatever comes with complete relaxation, or literally, to meet whatever comes without the mind of picking and choosing, and without the mind of judgment, without the mind of control, in other words, no mind.

[03:09]

So I wrote that out, and I also wrote out the characters for no mind, for that mind of no mind, that the bodhisattva meets things. So if anybody wants a piece of this calligraphy to remind you of such a practice, which you can put on your refrigerator, if you have a refrigerator, I can give you a copy of it. So you can tell Bert, if you want a piece of that calligraphy, Bert will be standing at the foot of the steps there by the bubble bath Buddha, forever. May I say a few more things?

[04:24]

Is anybody having any problem with me saying some more things? Has anybody got a problem with me saying a few more things? You okay? Again, I want to reiterate that if while I'm talking you want to leave, it's okay, you don't have to stay, you're not captive to this, to me talking. In one sense, I would say that I feel that many of you have understood quite well what I've been saying to you, and partly to reiterate, but also to tell you what I think you understand,

[05:28]

and I'd like to say again that in Zen we are concerned not so much about one person being enlightened, although that's important, the primary thing is about two people. Two people together, or many people together, realizing awakening, and the true awakening is not of one person only, it's the awakening of the whole community. Only a Buddha and a Buddha fully realize the Dharma. And this is only a Buddha and a Buddha in intimate communion.

[06:31]

And I said yesterday that I want to devote my life to such intimacy, such intimate communion, but I also want to say that I understand that it's difficult. And someone said that to, you know, like in a week for sixty people to become intimate is quite ambitious, and I think I certainly would agree with that, but I also think that it's ambitious for two people to become intimate, and I think it's then more ambitious for sixty people to become intimate, and I think it's ambitious for two people to devote their attention

[07:44]

and their heart to become intimate in seven days, that's ambitious, and I think it's also ambitious for two people to devote their hearts, their lives, to become intimate in many years. Although it's ambitious, it can be called ambitious, I do wish to enter into such a perhaps rightly called ambitious path of becoming intimate with all beings. I see no other way for me. I feel this is the way. But it is difficult, and I do not, well, I put it positively, I... I'll put it negatively, I do not expect it to be accomplished by any particular date.

[08:45]

I do not expect to accomplish intimacy with one of you, or with myself, today or tomorrow. I don't wish to, I mean, I don't expect to. I do not expect all sixty of us to be intimate today, or by the end of this sitting, or by next week. I don't expect. And I think you understand, many of you understand already, that the expectation of when intimacy will be realized undermines the process. Intimacy is a way of letting go of expectations, and there may be expectations flying all over the room right now, but the intimacy

[09:47]

is not to attach to them. Play with them? Yes. Recognize them? Yes. Honor them? Yes. But don't grasp them. That will interfere with our intimacy. So I don't expect to realize it, I just want to. I really do. And it's hard. We've had a hard time this week, working on intimacy, some of us. Maybe some of you've had easy time, but some of you've had a hard time. I've had a hard time. But this is the way it is this week, and I want to somehow learn how to be more skillful

[11:07]

in this process. My understanding is that part of realizing intimacy is that part, it's really a big part. Each of these Buddhas, each of these beings that come to meet, must express themselves, and for example, they must express, I say, they must express what they really want. In order to express what I really want, I have to look inside, I have to do some intra-psychic work, and look inside and see what I really want. Sometimes when you first get out of bed, the breeze at dawn, maybe you hear what you really

[12:14]

want. Somehow, part of our job is to look inside and see what we really want, and then if you can see what you really want, or anyway, what you want, and eventually what you really want, if you can see it, then what's needed, I say, for intimacy is that you express that to somebody else, and somebody else who has found what she wants, and expressing to you the same. So, to get to this, to do this kind of work, is really something. It's kind of like open heart surgery. It involves vulnerability to find the answer, to find what you want, and

[13:22]

it's you're vulnerable when you express what you want, and the other is vulnerable to you too, and again, this is, I think, not easy, but part, it's required, I think. Again, I think you understand this. I'm telling you what I think you kind of understand already. What we want, what I want, is often in the form of a story. I have a story about the world, and because of the story I have about the world, inside that story someplace is what I want. It's another story about what I want in relationship to my story of the world. We carry these stories around, and when we start to, if we carry our stories, and we have nothing to do with each other, maybe things seem pretty, I don't know what, calm.

[14:25]

Which is fine. Sometimes we can be fairly calm with our own story, but as we start to express our stories, they sometimes or often clash, and that's part of the work of intimacy is to express our stories and somehow relax with the clash, so that these stories can start helping both storytellers let go of their story. The Buddha has a story, and the Buddha releases the story that she has, I say. I also say that each party, each Buddha, each sentient being in this meeting must express

[15:34]

themselves, must express what they really want, and when this expression becomes full expression, full self-expression of what you want, when it's full, it's released. When the self-expression, when the desire is expressed fully, there is release, release from the desire and freedom from the desire. So the basic principle, which again I think you understand, if we have desires that are not expressed, we're driven by them, and I would not say not just unexpressed, but that are not fully expressed. Desires we have that are not fully expressed drive us. Desires that are fully expressed don't drive

[16:37]

us. They're done. They've done their job. Desires for, unwholesome desires, if they're not fully expressed, drive us in an unwholesome way. Wholesome desires that are not fully expressed also drive us in an unwholesome way. You'll get sick from not expressing your wholesomeness, and you'll get sick from not expressing your unwholesomeness. And even if you have a desire which is beyond wholesome and unwholesome, if that's unexpressed, that will also drive you, but that's okay, because that's your bodhisattva vow, and it's okay that that drives you until you have realized it. The other ones must be fully

[17:43]

expressed. And that doesn't mean if you have a desire to do some cruel thing, you should do the cruel thing. That's not full expression of the cruel thing. Full expression of the cruel thing is to tell Buddha that you want to do a cruel thing, and get feedback from Buddha. To think of doing some cruel thing, to think of doing some unwholesome thing, and then to do it, is not full self-expression. It's not full self-expression, and you will continue to be driven by it until you express it fully, which is not to act it out. If you want to steal something, stealing it is not full self-expression. Telling all of us that you want to steal, in a context where you feel safe and loved and love everybody,

[18:46]

that's the situation. Tell us your plan to rob the bank. That will be more full self-expression than actually robbing the bank. And you'll be free of it when you tell us. When you fully tell us you want to do that, you'll be free of it. Until you tell us, you'll be driven to do it over and over and over, and it won't satisfy you, and you'll keep trying to do it, because you haven't expressed it yet. And wholesome things too, if you don't express them fully. And also those, of course, acting them out also isn't enough. It's part of it maybe, and good to do, but you should act them out in a context where you're met, where you tell someone, you don't just do it, you tell someone you want to, and you listen to their response. And this is again, the stories can clash. I want to do this good thing. You

[19:56]

want to do a good thing. I want to do a good thing. And these two things clash. That's part of what happens. And working out that clash is what realizes full self-expression, and what fully expresses that desire and liberates us from it. If my story clashes with your story, I feel that what I have to do is let my story be changed by your story. And I need you to let your story be changed by my story. I need

[21:09]

to allow you to write, co-author my story, not write it, co-author it. And I need you to let me write, co-author your story. And you have to tell me your story, and I have to tell you mine in order for this to happen. And I need to develop with you an understanding such that I dare to tell you my story, dare to tell you my desires. I need to create a container with myself where I dare to look and see my desires and see my story. Then I need support to express my story. I don't know if it's obvious, but I feel supported by you to express my story. I'm doing it. This is my story. And we have difficulty in

[22:11]

this group creating a situation where all of you feel that you can express your story, although many of you have expressed your story to me individually. Many of you have come and told me something that you want, and you've told me that you had to say that in order to let it go. You understood? You understand this. I'm very gratified. I think of, you know, someone said something about, used the word precise, and I thought there, I'm not saying you always have to be precise, but there is a very important place

[23:18]

for being precise in Zen practice. To precisely grip a cup is a tradition, is a common occurrence in the history of Zen. Cups have been precisely gripped and brought precisely to the lips, and the water has been drunk precisely. Not yet, but now. And the water touches the lips and tongues precisely, and there's something wonderful about precision. And Zen, not just Zen, but the Buddha way, works with precision. But like T.S. Eliot says, I think precise, but not pedantic. Precise, but not controlling. And I think that's the beauty of Zen.

[24:28]

And I think of Suzuki Roshi as doing certain things quite precisely, but not controlling. Putting incense sticks into ash precisely, but not controlling, so that you can put the stick, you touch it at precise places, and you place the tip precisely at a certain point in the universe, very precisely, but without trying to control. And there's a big surprise. There's always a surprise if you pay attention and are not trying to control. But if you try to control, you may miss the fact that things didn't happen the way you thought. Or even that you weren't thinking of how they would happen, and they happened in a spectacularly

[25:37]

fresh way. So we can be careful and precise, but not gripping and controlling. Close, but not sticking. Not sticking, but not far away. So some of us are pretty good at not sticking to things that are far away, but when we are close and take really good care of something, precise care, we sometimes slip into trying to control. So how can we be close without sticking, gripping, tensing, trying to control? They say, call me irresponsible. Call me irresponsible.

[27:03]

Anyway, call me ambitious, but I am actually vowing for a public enlightenment. Public, not private. Private's fine, but it's basically something to get over, something to go beyond, something to let go of. Private enlightenment. Public enlightenment. Public means for the people. The people. Public comes from people. People come from public. Re public. For the people, by the people, of the people. This is an ambitious thing. I don't know if we've gone forward or backward on that

[28:06]

path this week, but that's my hope, is to work on this public enlightenment, including eventually everyone, in this intimacy where we express ourselves fully and thereby let go and become undriven by our desires, or free of our desires, at peace with our desires, and at peace with other people's desires, because they're letting go of theirs too. But also, sometimes they're not letting go of them, so we have practices to deal with them, not yet letting go of them. Patience with how slowly or rapidly this process

[29:13]

moves. There's another thing on the refrigerator that I want to read to you, and let me tell you what it is before I read it, to see if it's okay with you if I read it. It's a poem written by this woman, by this actually little girl who's now a grown woman, who calls me Dad. I wondered if it's okay with you if I read this poem. Is that all right? It's called The Golden Gate Bridge. It was written

[30:14]

sometimes prior to 1986. I don't know how, so I think she was like eight when she wrote this. The Golden Gate Bridge. How did you get that sunburn through the fog? Even though you have a sunburn, you let cars that are like little ants crawl over you. You are always so willing. You let people that are like dolls to you walk along your sides and look off, and you always keep them safe behind your rails no matter who they are. Me and my dad could never get from San Francisco to Marin

[31:19]

if you weren't there. You remind me of a friend, or somebody, who's always there for you. Anybody can trust not to go away. Well, I know you won't. When I read that, I thought, partly I thought, well, Golden Gate Bridge, sometimes people do jump off the bridge, the bridge doesn't keep them safe. They have people watching to try to catch them before they jump. So, in some sense, you could say, well, she doesn't know, the bridge isn't that skillful, can't stop all those suicides. But anyway, she's looking for somebody like that, a friend who will always be there, willing to help us and won't go away. And I also thought, well, maybe this poem is partly about her dad, that

[32:29]

she wants her dad not to go away. And I thought, but her dad is going to go away. But in another way, what her dad is devoted to, maybe that won't go away. Maybe we can keep that going. Although dads may come and go, maybe the spirit of being devoted to beings and protecting them and letting them crawl all over us, or crawl all over our sunburn if they need to, and trying to keep them from jumping off the bridge or providing rails for them to be protected and then now put over the rails, put these fences up. These fences are up now, right? Are the fences up? Only one section. Anyway, so that's what I wanted to say and I'm

[33:37]

very happy that your understanding is the way it is, and I hope that it will become deeper and deeper and deeper, and that we will all become more and more skillful in meeting and expressing, meeting and expressing and letting go of our stories and helping others do the same. And I don't know where to go from here, so if anybody wants to help me on my path, you're invited to do so. I welcome your input, feedback

[34:43]

and crawling bodies. Yes? I just want to say that once I was in a hotel in Hawaii where I saw the head of a Buddha, and for some reason it moved me very, very deeply, and it felt as though I was being held by a Buddha, and it felt as though it was in great joyful ecstasy, in great ecstasy that I saw like things crawling all over it. There were like monkeys and all kinds of things

[35:53]

running over, up and down and around it, and this Buddha was so serene accepting of all of these creatures or things just crawling all over it. I never forgot that. So, we have Antony and Gareth and Grace. I have an attachment I'd like to fully express. You have an attachment? Are people comfortable with him expressing his attachment? Yes. Is that okay? I can't for the life of me figure out what the difference between having a feeling attachment

[36:57]

and having thought attachments are. If you do the same thing with a thought attachment that you do with a feeling attachment, for example, when I think about something I don't like, or I think about something I do like, I know I can not connect with that. I can let it go. It can be like a cloud that's passing over me, something I've lost. But when I have a feeling, it feels different. A feeling during the morning when you came by and you just grazed my back the other day. It just made me cry, and I don't know why I cried, but it made me cry. I don't understand how you let go of that cloud in the same way. Well, my first response is, it sounds like you did let go of it. It didn't sound like

[37:58]

you were holding on to it. Just like you had the feeling and didn't it just go through you? It didn't. Maybe a different example. Yeah, why don't you find… Well, you could have held on to that feeling though. You could have tried to get me to come back and touch me again, or don't do that again, or whatever. Some kind of tightening around that feeling, but it sounded like you were touched. You were touched, you felt something by that touch, and tears came. Sounds like a nice flowing of energy to me. But you could have tensed up around that. You could have tried to hold it or judge it or something like that. But you can give another example if you want. But anyway, it sounds like that one you didn't hold it. So that's an example of where you did let that feeling just pass through you. But if you want to give an example where you don't, go ahead. I guess I'd rather ask, is there a limitation to thinking about thoughts and feelings in

[39:03]

this way? I think the way the mind works actually is that feelings, strictly speaking, you do not actually grasp or hold to feelings. I propose that there's an intervention between feeling and grasping, that we have an idea or a conception of the feeling, and we grasp that, and then we tense up around that. So really what we're grasping is mostly thoughts. Feelings are just the way the mind is receiving the moment, just like pain and pleasure. But pain and pleasure themselves are not really the problem. The problem is grasping them or seeking some other feeling. But what we're grasping in that case is a conceptual rendition, because

[40:11]

our grasping equipment and our seeking equipment relates to concepts. So if you cannot grasp in the realm where you can grasp, and we tense up around ideas, we don't tense up around feelings, I'm proposing that there's intervention, the feelings over there, and then there's conception, and we tense up around the conception. We think, you know, there could be something other than this, and we think this is something other too. So relaxing with all concepts, relaxing with everything your mind can grasp, will leave your feelings to flow according to their own pattern of the history of your karma and so on. But this is the process by which your feelings will evolve in accordance with non-attachment rather than with attachment.

[41:14]

I don't know if that made sense to you. Great. Garth? Something of the Dharma? Well, again, even if there isn't such a thing, it's fine with me. If you want some inspiration, then I would like to know. Basically, I'm here to inspire you along the path which you

[42:17]

wish to walk. So please tell me the path you wish to walk, and I will then give you my wholehearted support. But please tell me what it is so I can get behind that and help you with that. So if you want to tell me now or later where you want to go, what you want, I will then inspire you about that. But I'm not going to inspire you before I find out what you want. I'm not going to tell you to do what I think you should do, inspire you to do what I think you should do. So where do you want to go so I can inspire you to go there? How do you want to go? How do you want to be? I want to be fully what I'm meant to be. And are you that way now? Are you fully what you're meant to be now?

[43:20]

I am, but I'm not. And how are you fully what you're meant to be now? Well, let me say it another way. The way you are now, are you meant to be the way you are now? Is the way you are the way you are? Right. And do you want to be this way right now, the way you are? Right. And I don't either. And I want to, if you want to, I want to be the way I am right now.

[44:28]

I want to be the way I am right now. And if you want to be the way you are, I would like to share that with you and have that same vow to work on being the way I am now, in the moment. And do you want to? Okay. Yeah, okay. Now, should we work on that or do you want to tell me something other than that that you want to talk about? Like, something that you're…these walls or something? These blocks? Well, I don't feel my role to talk about that. It's part of my time. Okay. Okay. So now we can…you do feel it's appropriate to talk about being right here now, the way you are now. And do you have any reservations about that? Would you be willing to give me your reservations?

[45:39]

Well, I just showed you where it's going. I was going to ask you to give me your reservations. Would you hand them over? Do you want to keep them? Your reservation is that you're not sure right now is the time to talk about the Dharma? I know you didn't. I don't think it's the time or the forum for talking about my personal world. And so what I'm saying to you is that if you want inspiration, then if you want personal inspiration, then maybe you don't want it now.

[46:58]

Because personal inspiration, I feel, the way I am anyway, is it has to do with you. It's not a general thing. So I guess maybe the general inspiration is that if each of you can find what you want to do, then if you have any obstructions to that, maybe what you can do then is to go and seek some conversation about how to work with any obstructions to the path you want to follow. Or, if you don't want to discuss it right now, that you do it in a situation where you feel it's more appropriate. Okay? Grace? A couple of things.

[48:01]

First, when we were talking way back then, I realized I wanted to say to you, this was obvious I think, that I will walk with you for the rest of your life. I'll probably come here. I mean, I hope I'm here. I hope you get invited. Yeah, that's one problem. Sometimes the invitations don't get off fast enough. But I also realized that when I wasn't wearing my outfit, so the other day I felt extraordinarily naked, and I'm in my outfit again. What do you mean? When I wasn't wearing my rock suit. But I think that what I then told you was that I wanted to wrap myself up in my rock suit, which I can't do.

[49:07]

You don't wrap yourself in a rock suit. Why not? Because it's too little. Wow. Wrap your wrist. I realized the only thing I'm afraid of is that you're going to die before I ask you to get a baby. So, I want to ask you to get a baby now. Not that you're going to die. Would you mind? Ask you to what? I'm pregnant. I'm going to have a baby. I always thought you were going to bring me on my deathbed. So, time was over. And there was no love. But I feel the love now. I'm not clear if you've asked a question.

[50:15]

I understand that you definitely want to be ordained before you die. And that will certainly be possible. But how much ahead of when you die do you want to be ordained? Pretty soon. Okay, Grace. I hear you. And I hope I'm there for that event. Okay. Yes. He was in another dimension. Oblivious of these things crawling up around him. Of course, I didn't actually see anything that sensed these things. But I also sensed that these things were him and he had a blissful relationship with these things.

[51:29]

Right. I don't think we... I think we understood it that way. Didn't we? But that is an important point. That the Buddha is not like... It's not like there's a Buddha over here and these beings crawling all over the Buddha and that they're separate. The Buddha is the blissful relationship of all these beings. The Buddha is all these beings being embraced and sustained. That's the Bodhisattva precept. So the harmony of all of us is the Buddha. Not that the Buddha is, you know, looking over there at our harmony. The harmony is the Buddha. Did you want to raise your... Are you raising your hand? Okay. You said something to me that sounds like you said to Tastor and also probably lots of people.

[52:33]

And I don't understand it. I thought I did. That love is not a feeling. I think that's... You said it yesterday. That love is not the same as the feeling of love. The feeling of love can disappear but love will always be there. I'm sorry. Say that again. I don't know what to say. So what I heard is that the feeling of love is not the same or identical with love. And the feeling of love may disappear but the love is always there. I'm not quite sure I understand it. Sometimes I do but right now I don't. Well, I feel ambivalent about explaining this but let me just say that

[53:43]

you could, I mean you could, we could, someone could say, you know, could I have, you know, I need a quart of blood from you. And you could give it like that and, you know, and maybe they really do need it and that was really helpful and all that, okay? But you might have given it without even thinking, oh, I love this person or this is a cool thing I'm doing or, you know, oh, this feels great. You might not have thought that at all. You might have actually felt like, oh, this is kind of like, it hurts, you know. But you might have given it without thought, without any sense of gain, without any expectation, without any distinction between self and other. In other words, I would call that love. An appropriate beneficial response to another being and you might have had no thought or feeling of love. Can you imagine such a thing?

[54:48]

It's also possible that someone could ask you for, you know, lunch or a walk and you just feel this nice warm feeling towards them. And you might say, oh, this feels like love. But you also, and it might, you know, that's a feeling of love, it's fine. But it might not be there. And in both cases, whether you had the feeling or not the feeling, you might take the walk with the person or do whatever you do with the person. It might be quite helpful. So again, you know, another way to put it is, to interact beneficially and in a liberating way with beings is a possibility that we're considering here. And if that happens, it isn't necessarily accompanied

[55:53]

with the feeling or the thought, liberation, liberating activity is now occurring and I'm helping this person or, you know, I'm a Bodhisattva or this feels great. What we're talking about as love is part of the process of liberating us from feelings, but not eliminating them. So there can be feelings of love and there can be feelings of hate. We're talking about a love that's purified of grasping, expectation, gain and the distinction between self and other. And that love could have all kinds of nice feelings associated with it. Like you could, you know, you could feel really good about being with somebody that you're perfectly happy giving your life for. You could feel really good being with someone who you almost don't see as other at all. You might have a good feeling there.

[56:54]

You might not be there. The feeling of, you might have no idea, no thought of love anywhere in the neighborhood. And in fact, if people are watching and they would say, this is awe-inspiring love that this person has for this other person. Not even this other person. The love between them is really an inspiration, is wonderful. This is what I want to live for. But the people involved may have no feeling of like that at all. And of course, people also have feelings of love, but because of clinging, don't act like it. So they have feelings of love, but they don't understand their feelings and they grip them and then they do strange things. Like I heard that when the Russians came into Czechoslovakia in 1956, or maybe it was, I can't remember whether it was 56. No, they came in Czechoslovakia in 68. They came into Hungary in 56. And when they came into Hungary, or Czechoslovakia, I don't remember which, they came in to liberate the people.

[57:58]

That's what they're coming for. And the people said, no thanks, we don't need your liberation. And they're sitting in their tanks saying, yes, but we love you. They said, but we don't, that's fine, but we don't need you to liberate us. We're going to because we love you. So they had this feeling of love, but it wasn't reciprocal, you know. Or, you know, there was maybe some reciprocity, but they were sitting in tanks and the other people were standing on the street. So sometimes we come in with a lot of loving energy, but we don't recognize the other side. And actually holding to that feeling of love, you know, it interferes with a loving relationship, where actually you listen to the other person. If they say, I don't need you to liberate me, you say, okay. Maybe tomorrow. And they say, yeah, maybe tomorrow. And would you please get out of your tank? And you say, okay, I'll get out of the tank. Maybe you do. Does that make any more sense? It totally does. What was your hesitation?

[59:01]

I hesitate to explain anything. Oh, okay. Thank you. You're welcome. I just want to please ask you to keep teaching until you die. I don't know when you're going to die. Because I think you're helping people a lot through it. So please keep teaching until you die. Don't stop, ever. Don't retire. No, he's not going to retire. I don't see myself retiring. But what I'm trying to do is work towards a different setup. I don't see myself as stopping teaching. I just don't want the teaching to be in the form of me teaching the student. I want the teaching to be in the form of me teaching Buddhas.

[60:06]

And Buddhas teaching me. That's what I'm trying to do, is to make it more intimate and equal. But I'm not saying I'm avoiding teaching, because Bodhisattva vow is to vow to teach. But to vow to teach bilaterally, intimately, rather than me. But at the same time, I understand that if I don't... I kind of feel like what I need to do is set the table. So we sort of say, OK, we're going to set the table. We're going to have certain things we're going to agree on. And you can't throw the dishes. Is that all right? Because maybe someday, but tonight we're not going to throw the dishes. And we're going to leave other people's clothes alone and stuff like that. And ask permission if you want somebody else's food. And stuff like that. So I feel like I'm willing to do that. But I'm also telling you, I'm trying to do something which I feel has more life.

[61:11]

Than me staying in the position of me teaching students. Which is easily recognizable and comfortable. So I'm not saying, I just want to move in this other way. If possible. What you just said is what I wanted to hear. I wanted everybody to hear that. Thank you. How you teach. You can teach through people, which you have done it all week through. But keep doing it. OK, thank you. Thank you. Yes. I have two questions about expressing yourself. OK. Is it R-H-E-S-2? One is simple to put into words. Which is, how does expressing yourself relate to love in this new life?

[62:14]

In this idea of love that we're working towards. How does expressing yourself relate to it? Well, can we do one at a time? So, how does expressing yourself relate to love? Right. The way I've been talking about it? Yes. Well. Did you say it was a short question? No, I said I could put it into words more easily than a second one. OK. Anyway, this is a... I'll try to say this briefly. What I'm basically suggesting is that love... The way I'm using the word love is... I mean compassion. I don't mean... I mean... What I've been talking about is pure love. Love that is purified of grasping. That's purified of the belief that we're separate.

[63:18]

That's what I'm talking about is love. In other words, love that is united with an understanding of interdependence. And in fact, a love which is interdependence. It is the interdependence, but it's also a realization of the interdependence. So it's a love that doesn't see anything to grasp or cling to. It's devoted... It's the mutual devotion of all beings. It's the harmony and mutual support of all beings. That's what I mean by love. That love requires self-expression, I say. Because the thing that's you, which supports me and supports everybody else, and the thing that's you, which all of us support, that needs to be expressed. If it's not expressed, there's tightening around it.

[64:21]

It wants to be expressed, but if it's not, that thwarting of the expression... It's like a plant that's growing and needs to grow. It needs to grow. If you don't cover it with something, it can't grow. It's like that, yes. And in addition to that, if it doesn't express itself, the reason why it doesn't express itself is because the reason, the hindrance to self-expression is the belief that it's isolated. That's why we don't express ourselves. We're afraid of what will happen to us if we do. So we need to find a way to let the plant grow, because as it expresses itself, it lets go of the ignorance of how it's being supported. And also the self-expression realizes the way the plant or whatever it is

[65:24]

is supporting everything else. So you put a plant inside of a container and if it's living off oxygen, giving off carbon dioxide, it eventually will die because oxygen taking in carbon dioxide, after a while it won't get any oxygen anymore, it'll die. But also it dies because it's not... its carbon dioxide isn't being given... its oxygen isn't being given off and received to beings who give back carbon dioxide. So the self-expression is your gift to me and others. You express yourself and as you give yourself more, you realize this interdependence. Because as you give yourself more... Wait a second, you're not... I can understand that. You're not listening to me, I don't think. Because I'm blocked by something you said. You're blocking, yes. No, I'm trying to... Well, I think...

[66:25]

Can I tell you what's blocking me? Yeah, you can, but I just want to point out that you haven't been listening to me. You've been holding on to what you want... You're holding on to what you want to say. Okay, go ahead. I can understand that and I did hear what you said, although I was holding on to this block because I was blocked. But the block is, I can understand that about the expression of how it works, the dynamic of how that works. If that expression is of the interdependence, the growing towards the interdependence of this purified love, but when that's an expression of grasping, I don't understand how that helps anything, or how that will help other beings. Well... When you say express yourself, at this point, you're expressing... So you're expressing grasping right now,

[67:28]

very nicely. And wouldn't you admit it? Yes, I thought that was my right, because I was asking the question... It is your right, yeah, but your question was about shouldn't that right be taken away from you? Didn't you notice that, that you were sort of saying you shouldn't be allowed to express yourself this way? Yeah, and I'm saying no. I'm saying go ahead and express your grasping, so that I can tell you, and you can see that there's grasping. So the grasping is not good in a way, but if it's expressed fully, you'll be free of it. And you are expressing it to me, and I'm telling you that you're doing it, and you're telling me you're doing it, and the more we get into how much you're grasping, and expressing more and more this grasping, the more full the expression of the grasping will be,

[68:29]

there will be the end of grasping. And not only that, but you can't express your grasping without somebody like me. I mean, I shouldn't say you can't fully express it without somebody like me, because you can partially express it, and then just keep cranking this partial expression of grasping around and around forever. But if you express it, and I say, you're grasping, and you can say, no, I'm not, and so on, or yes, I am, and I can say, do it more, or tell me more about how you're grasping, when the grasping is full self-expression, which you can't do by yourself, but only in this interaction, then you're going to be free of it. So, although grasping expression, grasping expression with grasping is not full expression, but you must do partial expression, and you must do partial expression outwardly, because if you do it outwardly, with others who are willing to work with you on it,

[69:29]

it will become more and more full, and when it's full, it'll be over. And that's what's necessary in order to release love from grasping. Does that make complete sense to you? So when someone else is expressing their grasping, and they're not asking for a Buddha to listen, they want affirmation of the grasping, that's a different situation. Then you have patience. Well, let's see. You said, when someone's expressing grasping, and they don't want to express it to Buddha? Is there a self-expression, which they think is self-expression, but it's really grasping? Is there? Yes, there is such a phenomenon of self-expression. It is self-expression, or you can sometimes call that selfish,

[70:30]

or expression of self-clinging. There is such expression. We call it selfishness, self-concern, self-cherishing, self-clinging, self-grasping. There is such a phenomenon. This is called misery. We recognize this phenomenon. Now, your question was, if someone's expressing themselves in this miserable, self-clinging way, and they do not want to do it to a Buddha, is that your example? Right. So as a Buddha, do you try to find a skillful response to make him, to them, that that's a process that's happening? Yes, definitely. Definitely. And patience is part of it. And, just like loving them with your whole heart is part of it. And appreciating that they're showing you, that they're giving you the gift of revealing their clinging,

[71:32]

so you can see it. Some people are so good at hiding that you can't even see where they're clinging. But when someone shows you they're clinging, it's kind of like, God, thanks. That's wonderful. Would you show me some more? And then you say, but this person doesn't want to show this, they're clinging to the Buddha, right? So they may say, no, I'm not going to show you more. But then you're patient with that. Or they show the clinging, they're proud of the clinging, but they have no idea that it's clinging. But you see it. So that's nice. So, in the same way with yourself, this is my second question, if you have a desire... Excuse me. I don't think we're done with this one yet. Oh, I thought it would just help. Could I do a little bit more on this one? So if someone is like, clinging, or another way to put it is,

[72:35]

if someone's stingy, not being generous, in other words, they're giving themselves to you, they're showing themselves to you, but they don't feel like they're showing themselves to you. They don't feel like they're giving themselves to you. So they're not happy. But you see that they're not, that they think they're not giving themselves to you, but you think they are giving themselves to you, and you're very happy. Because you feel the gift of them showing you they're clinging. And what you do is you start giving them gifts. You give them gifts. You give them gifts. Flowers, you know, it depends on their dietary restrictions, but you give them all kinds of delicious things that are good for their health, you give them all kinds of attention, you give them all kinds of love, you give them all this stuff and then they have to like, you know, then they deal with all these gifts and in the process of dealing with this

[73:35]

they start to notice, they're clinging, they start to notice how they're tense around things, they start to wake up. The contrast, there's a contrast there. Yeah, right. And they kind of know that something wonderful is happening and they're kind of like not with it and they kind of like start noticing that they're not with it. And one of the gifts you give to them is you say to them, you know, you say to them, you know, I'm so tense, I'm so stingy and they think, why is this person saying that they're so stingy? I wonder why they're saying that. Or they might say, oh yeah, you are, I hope you get over it soon. And then they walk away and they think, gee, that person really had a problem with stinginess, that's really, that's really, that's really something. And they think, gee, stinginess, what is stinginess anyway? It's too bad that person has a problem with that.

[74:40]

I wonder if I do. Maybe I do, maybe that's what they were trying to tell me. And so then they come back and say, do you think I'm stingy and you say, well what do you think? You say, well yes I do. You say, well thanks, that's good. It's good that you've realized that you think you are. And you don't necessarily have to say, yes you are stingy, because actually in some sense they've been very generous to show you, they've given you the gift of awakening. And all this happens from the side of the Bodhisattva without even thinking about it, because you just basically appreciate the person. You appreciate the person who's totally clinging, totally ignorant of their clinging, totally think everybody else is clinging and they're not, all that stuff. You appreciate the person the way they are and you want them to wake up, but you're not in a hurry, you have no expectation. And everything they do, it's a gift, you see it. Everything they do is Buddhadharma coming back, blessing you, that's the Bodhisattva's

[75:44]

point of view. And they look at the person like, you are one beautiful sentient being, and I shouldn't even say sentient being, because you are just one beautiful dependent core arising being delivered to me right now, and I just wonder what I can do for you, and at the same time I'm kind of uptight and stingy. And I'm not just saying that to be ironic, I kind of feel that way, and maybe the reason why I feel that way is because somehow my full potential as a Buddha has not come forth in the form of you waking up. And I really feel, you know, I pray that my heart will open completely and all the skill that I have the potential to realize will come, and I'm sorry that I haven't been more helpful to you, but anyway, I do totally appreciate you in your current state of development. And so you might start waking up to your own clinging, talking to such a, having such

[76:54]

a conversation, but maybe not right at the time, but maybe later, so beings can wake up that way. But basically we try to relieve beings of stinginess by generosity, and some stingy people, if you give them a gift, they even try not to let themselves have it, because they're miserly, they don't want to give anything for themselves either, and so you just basically, when they resist the giving, you give more. Finally, everybody melts. That's the idea. But you know, I feel like, I'm not sure that next question should be asked, what do you think? Oh, why do you say that? Because I think other people need to be called on in time. Oh, absolutely. Is that okay?

[77:54]

Absolutely. But you can ask me later. Okay, I will. Okay, you can remember it. Thank you for that first question. You're welcome. Who else was up a while ago? No? Was it, oh yeah, Lee. You had your hand up, did you change your mind? You did? Okay. Yes, Vivian? I wanted to say that the reason I came up before the Sangha the other day and said that I have universal love for all beings is because I think this is so important. You think what is important? To have universal love for all beings, that people want to feel love. Well, I think we all agree with you. I don't know if we all agree with you. Do we all agree with that? Huh? You're not sure you do?

[78:56]

That universal love is really important? Okay, sorry. Is there something else you want to say, Vivian, besides that universal love is important? Yes, that I have, I discovered about seven years ago that I have this love. I don't want anything to do with love until I've had it. And then I realized, it's a long story, but I was working for a military company. Okay. Can I say it in one sentence? Yeah, that would be fine. That's a sentence. Pardon?

[80:02]

Since that revelation, there have been times, quite often, when it's been difficult for me to feel that love, because I realize not everybody has that love. Not everybody feels the way I do. For instance, if I walk on the street... Excuse me. I'm feeling uncomfortable with you going on like this. Can you understand that I'm starting to feel uncomfortable? I'm sorry? Can you understand that I'm starting to feel uncomfortable? Can you understand that I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with you going on like this? Well, you're just sort of going on and on, and somehow you made a point that you have a difficulty and now you're going to give an example, and I'm telling you I feel uncomfortable about it. But I heard you say that you're having difficulty finding work that you feel works with universal love. I understand that. Okay.

[81:23]

Right. Excuse me. I got that. Okay. Can I say something now? I think a lot of people have some problem around feeling love and then feeling like it's not reciprocated, and then because you feel like it's not reciprocated, you have trouble feeling it. And the basic policy is that if you feel the love's not reciprocated, try to find some way to love anyway. Right. And if you can love even though it's not reciprocated, that will be the way for you to understand how it's reciprocated. But if you could stop by it not being reciprocated and wait to see it come to you first, you may not be able to see it. Right. That's also something I wanted to say. I think when you give love, then you receive love.

[82:34]

Right. And that's the way to develop love is to express it. Right. And even if you aren't loved in return, it's still a gift to give love. Right. And I wanted to express that aloud because I think I need to hear it myself. Okay. Did you hear it? Yeah. Did it feel good to hear it? What? Did you enjoy hearing it? I guess so. And I... And they often hear it too because... They heard it. Yeah. Thank you for the gift. There's something I want to say. Pardon? It's the expression of that. Believe me, we all do. I would love to be able to speak to somebody like Mother Teresa and say, I want to give love all the time because that's the way she was. I need to give love all the time. Well, let's work on it, okay? Okay. All right. Okay. Huh? I'll pass.

[83:36]

Okay. Very good. I'm not a teacher. Very good. Tenshi, real quick, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate what you tried to do this week and you're not getting it worked out. Thank you. As a teacher myself, I really do admire your teaching methodologies. In fact, so much so that I'm going to do it to my students when we get back home. Are you up for a short suggestion? Yes. I thought that maybe it was a little extreme going from staring at a wall for 10 hours a day to 60 people on one student. I feel like there was a conflict

[84:41]

between people grasping onto wanting you to be out there in this familiar situation and then going to that other extreme. And if there was a way where you could mix both of them and not have it be so extreme that it might build up. Thank you. Yes. I haven't been here for any of the lectures so I've just heard things from the community. Ah. I'd like to share something about the dynamics of the room. Is it alright if you...

[85:45]

Is that alright? Let's just check now. Is it alright if she tells you something about the dynamics of the room? Can you say it in one sentence? Can you say it in one sentence? She said no. Pardon? You don't want her to do it? So some people do and some people don't. Some people don't kind of don't want you to do it and some people do. What do you think you should do? I'd like to share it and ask for the perspective of all of you. You know, I kind of feel like if some people don't want you to since you just came in here that maybe you could tell me. I'd be happy to hear from you anytime. But since some of the people here don't want to and they might have to leave the room if you start talking I think for you to come in here

[86:46]

and sort of drive the Sashim people out the door is not necessary. But I would love to hear your perspective. Okay? Alright. Anything else you want to bring up at this time? Yes, Laura? Could you speak up please a little bit? I can barely hear you. My work is dancing Buddha. You have an idea about what? What to do for my work is Dancing Buddha? Dancing Buddha! Okay.

[87:56]

You can touch her if you want. Ask her if you can touch her. Okay. [...]

[89:00]

Okay. Okay. Okay. I am here. [...] I saw you dance, it was beautiful. Don't ever stop. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[90:23]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Yes?

[91:28]

I wanted to point out that there's been an invitation for her to dance, but I feel like we should check to see if people feel comfortable with that. Does anybody not feel comfortable with a dance? I think it might be hard for some, I guess that it might be hard. You don't particularly need to do a dance, do you? Right now? I mean, do you feel like you need to do a dance? No. So I don't think she needs to. Mechu's inviting her, but I mean, I don't think it's necessary, and I think some people might be uncomfortable with it, just possibly,

[92:41]

and I don't want to start this rolling in that way, because I'm concerned that people will start leaving the room. Yeah, there was plenty. I'm kind of feeling like it's more and more dangerous to speak, because someone might leave. I thought we were on safer grounds earlier this week. We were on what? Safer grounds. Safer, yeah. And now, because there's such vulnerability or volatility, that you have to be careful what you say and do,

[93:47]

because it might offend one person, or I don't know. Well, I think it's always the case that you might offend one person, or more than one person. That's always the case. But earlier, we were not concerned with people leaving, because that was fine if they wanted to leave. Now, I'm kind of like... Oh, I see what you mean. I want people to leave. Right. Now, it's not so much that I... Well, I kind of don't want people to leave. At the end of Sesshin now, I would kind of like to behave in such a way that people aren't driven out at the end. So I would feel more comfortable in the middle or at the beginning of people leaving than right at this time. That's Mike.

[94:35]

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