What is the official time of our time? What? Nine o'clock. Nine o'clock? I promised to start talking about the Sixth Ancestry today, but I don't know if I'll make it, because I have to say a little bit more about the Fifth. And before I say something about the Fifth, I want to say something about, well, first of all, something about Zen.

[01:07]

In the stories that I've brought up so far, almost all these stories, there was something dramatic happened, some kind of awakening occurred. Did you notice that? And so, in the context of Mahayana Buddhism, which has these Bodhisattva practices that take so much effort on such a vast scale, in that context, there's this thing called Zen practice, where these people have been able to... The conditions have come together for people to have some big encouragement in the Bodhisattva way.

[02:25]

And the Zen stories are often about the skillful device, often verbal, sometimes physical, that brings about this encouragement to the Bodhisattva and clarification of the whole project. As Yaoshan said later, Yakusan Igen, I've studied the canonical teachings, but I've heard that in Zen there is a direct pointing to the essence of mind. So, something about that.

[03:30]

A skillful use of the situation, an artful use of the situation to help a concentrated person. To help a person who is quite settled and present learn something important about life. So, most of the practice period I've been emphasizing the kinds of efforts that make it possible to settle, make it possible to unselfishly be ready to utilize an opportunity. I also want to say today that I think that that poem that I've been reciting, called Love, which I mentioned yesterday, the word love could be replaced perhaps by suchness or truth.

[05:02]

So, we could say that the teaching of love has been intimately communicated by Buddhas and ancestors. Now you have it, so keep it well. And love has a number of meanings. In the American Heritage Dictionary, the word love, number six meaning, the theological meaning, is that love is God's benevolent and merciful attitude. Or God's benevolence and mercy towards a person or towards humankind. And it's also the person's devotion and adoration, devotion or adoration towards God.

[06:13]

And it's also the proper benevolent and kind and friendly attitude that one has towards other human beings. Towards others, not just other human beings. And suchness has this quality of, it's not you, you're actually it. It has this two-directional quality also. The definition of love has these two meanings separated. But in suchness or thusness, or the teaching of thusness, both directions are there. So, I think love is a pretty good word. Now, love also has its associations with intense affection. And it also, intense affection, it also means sexual intercourse and things like that.

[07:18]

So, it is also the case, as I've talked about before, the case of amor and psyche. That love, capital F love, which is Cupid or Eros or amor, has this love affair with the mind, with soul, psyche. And many religions, in many religions, the imagery of realization is sexual imagery. In Zen school, I grew up in China. In China, Chinese culture uses, generally speaking, very little sexual imagery. Have you noticed that? Not too much sexual drawings to convey their philosophy and religion.

[08:24]

It's a more subdued and solemn culture. So, the sexual imagery is not so strong in Zen. But still, for the West, in order to make a connection with our culture, it may be good to think of the word love. And that this is the teaching of love that has been transmitted. And all the reproductive imagery and associations with the word love are also appropriate to Buddhism. The lotus, for example, is a symbol. It's a symbol of fertility and reproduction. There's a flower involved there. The Buddhism is not just something that happens, it's something that reproduces itself.

[09:34]

In this regard, something like joining your palms together, which we call gassho in Japanese. Gassho, by the way, literally means join palms. Gassho is, in one sense, it can be done in a very such-like manner. Very definite, very precise, very traditional. But it also can be done as an act of love. As an offering that you offer to a person you bow to, but that you offer to the entire world.

[10:59]

You offer your gassho. There are many offerings that we can make to Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and other living beings. We can offer our thoughts. So also, benevolent thoughts, very important, precise, clear, wholehearted benevolent thoughts can be offered. But in Soto Zen, there is, I think, a strong emphasis on physical offerings. Offering your body. Having your body be a certain shape, a certain form, in a certain place, at a certain time. Not sort of a certain shape, or not sort of a certain time, but an exact shape at an exact time.

[12:05]

This is from the side of you or me offering that to other living beings. So I offer this gassho. If someone's there, they can see it, but I offer it whether someone's there or not. One time someone asked Suzuki Oksan, Suzuki Oksan's wife, what is the most important thing to teach? She was a kindergarten school principal. Now, this was not an ordinary kindergarten. This was the kindergarten that went with Suzuki Oksan's temple in Japan. So it was a Buddhist kindergarten. They asked, what is the most important thing to teach the children in kindergarten? And she said, gassho. Gassho is something, it is not only something, it is something that I do or you do.

[13:20]

It is as you do it. At that time, it is the expression of your practice, of your life. It is the only thing you've got to offer for peace and happiness, for freedom, for kindness in the world at that moment. So what gassho are you going to offer? So they teach the children this. This is their offering. But also gassho, it has something to do with what you're bowing to. When you join your hands together, it reminds you that what's in front of you, whatever it is, I don't know, it's important beyond words. It is the teaching of emptiness.

[14:24]

It is the practice of emptiness. Because of the teaching of emptiness, everything is equally venerable. Because everything has the wonderful mark of emptiness. Everything, Buddhas, Bodhisattvas, jewels, wonderful people, robbers, everybody, everything has the mark of emptiness. Everything has that radiant, liberating potential. So it's good to teach children to gassho. Then they can put their hands together and be there for whatever is there, ready. Ready. Can you see gassho as love? The way I learned to do gassho, and it's not the only way to do gassho,

[15:31]

but anyway, the way I learned was I joined the palms together like this, flat together, and the tips of the finger in line with the nose, the bottom of the nose, and a fist's distance from the nose. And Mark told me that Mel teaches ten inches from the nose. So I guess if you have a ten inch ruler you can put up there ten inches. Actually, in some ways it might look better ten inches up there, I don't know, make a bigger circle. But anyway, that's the way I was taught by Suzuki Rishi. And probably Mel will say that's the way he was taught by Suzuki Rishi. Anyway, when you learn a form, Thich Nhat Hanh says to gassho like this, with like a little lotus in your hand.

[16:34]

So he gasshos kind of with a cup-shaped thing like that. I think the point is not so much which one is right, but just that I was taught this way, so I'll tell you that's the way I was taught. And sometimes I do it that way and sometimes I don't, myself. But that's the way I was taught. Somebody else will tell you they were taught another way. The point is that you choose which one you're going to do. Or you don't choose which one you're going to do. You say, well, I'm going to do that way that Reb told me, or I'm going to do that way that Mel told me, or I'm going to do that way that Thich Nhat Hanh told me, or I'm going to do it another way. Or you might even say, I'm not going to pay attention to how I do it, I'm just going to do it how I feel like it at the time. And that's going to be my act of love.

[17:40]

However, most people, if they don't choose a way, at least when they're training, if they don't choose a way, they sometimes forget that this is an act of love. If you choose a way, then there's that way or not. And if you do that way, you might remember what the point of that is. So this isn't a right or wrong thing. This is a love thing. Like I was telling some people the other day, if I'm in the role of a teacher, like if I ordain priests, and then they come and tell me, I fell in love and I'm going to Chicago, see you later. As a friend, if they told their friend that, their friend would say, well that's great, who'd you fall in love with? When are you leaving? Oh, next week? How long have you been gone? Ten years? Great. You're pregnant too? Swell. Right? If you can tell your friend that, they'll be happy.

[18:45]

So as a friend, I like to say, when somebody tells me they've fallen in love, or they're going to do something unusual, that I hadn't heard about, and they're just saying goodbye, when they tell me, I have a friend, I want to say, well that's terrific, sounds great. Assuming it is a great thing. If they just told me they had cancer, then I'm not so happy. But if they're telling me that something wonderful is happening, and that their life has totally changed, and they're going off, well great, see you later. Good luck. Bye. But if you tell your wife that, if you tell your wife, I've fallen in love with somebody, see you later. Or if you tell your husband that, or if you tell your wife that you're not going to be around for three months, she says, what? Are you insane? And starts hitting you, if she is of that type. This is anyway the kind of situation where people get really freaked out.

[19:46]

When somebody that you're connected with, when you tell somebody that you're connected with that you're going to do something major without having talked to them. Okay? Why did I bring that up? Because, if you have a lineage, if you have, if you're training with a teacher, if you choose some practice, tradition, then any kind of gassho is cute. Watch kids gassho. Any kind of gassho is swell. Really. But are you in a tradition or not? And if you're not, and if you're in a tradition and you gassho slightly different from your teacher, it's a big deal. Not to mention if you don't gassho at all. Okay? If somebody else doesn't bow to your teacher,

[20:49]

she doesn't care, he doesn't care. Oh, it's cute. They didn't bow. It's all cute. If you don't bow, it's not cute. It's a big deal because Buddhism comes down just to this kind of stuff. That's all it's built out of is whether you gassho or not and when you do it and how you do it. There's nothing much more to it than that. And whether you're doing according to this tradition or that tradition. Like I heard Myo announce this morning, whether you do put your foot over on the left side on the outside of the door or right side of the door or middle of the door, all that stuff is what we're working with. Now, if you're not in training, so sometimes there's some people here actually I'm going to ask. In the next few days, I'm going to ask. By the way, do you want to be trained? Do you want to be treated like a monk? And if they say yes, I'll say some things to them. If they say no,

[21:51]

I'll say fine. When you're married to somebody, I gave this example the other day talking to these priests that I've ordained. When you're married to somebody, if you're sitting in the same room with them, you know, like in your house, you're in your house, right? You're in the room and your husband or wife is reading the newspaper or something, you know, they're not paying any attention to you. You know, you could think they could care less what I do. And you sort of walk out the door to take the garbage out the door, you know, and you walk out the door to take the garbage out and they say, where are you going? And you say, I'm taking the garbage out. They say, why didn't you tell me? Tell you that I'm taking the garbage out? Are you kidding? Well, maybe that's too much. How about, how about going for a walk? You know, go take a 15-minute walk, right? You just get up and walk out

[22:51]

out of the house. And he comes or she comes and opens the window and says, where are you going? I'm going for a walk. Is that alright? Well, yes, it's alright, but I would appreciate it if you told me. You mean I have to tell you when I take a 15-minute walk? Well, no, you don't have to tell me, but I would appreciate it. So, how about it? You know, there you are and you're going to take a walk, 15-minute walk or maybe a two-minute walk. Or maybe you're just going to go to the toilet and that's it. And you say to your husband or wife or you say to your teacher, you say, I'm going to go for a two-minute walk. What do they say? Thanks. When you do it,

[23:53]

it may not be too big a deal. When you don't do it, it's not too big a deal. But anyway, as big or as small as it is, this is the stuff. I'm not going to ask you yet because I don't want some of you to show off in front of others. I'm not going to ask you if you're settled yet. Okay? I think maybe you're getting kind of settled. Maybe you are settled. But I won't ask you because some of you might say, yes, I am and others might feel like, oh, I'm behind them or something. So, I won't ask. But what I'm saying is I think you're getting kind of settled in this session. I feel your energy coming up. I feel you concentrating. So now it's time that you concentrate to start noticing what exactly are you doing. Now it's time to notice all the little wonderful opportunities there are throughout the day in time and space

[24:55]

to practice. To notice what a difference it makes to open your eye a millimeter different. To notice how the mind responds to the slight differences in your eye openings. To notice where you put your feet when you come in the door. To notice how you use your Oriyoku. To notice how you Gassho. To notice your voice when you're chanting. To notice your bow. And think about are you just bowing or are you bowing in a tradition? And if you are in a tradition what tradition are you in? And what is the way you bow? Suzuki Roshi you name it all the way back to Buddha all they have to offer in terms of love are things like Gassho. And that's what they

[25:57]

really have that's how they work with their students. So Gassho is very important. So please think about that. And if you want to join the tradition of love maybe that's one way to join it. Through learning these lovely forms. Or learning these forms and making them lovely. They're not so lovely before you do them actually. They're just empty nothing. They're nothing before you do them. So we sometimes we sometimes get into right and wrong about this stuff. It's not right and wrong. It's not wrong to Gassho like this. Or it's not wrong to Gassho like this. The point is you choose what tradition you're going to try and you try that one.

[26:58]

If you don't do it that way it's still not wrong. It's just the question is for you for you is that action is this Gassho when you do it is it expressing love? Is it expressing expressing kindness and benevolence to others? Is it is it expressing your adoration and your alignment with the Buddhas? And is it Buddha being expressed through you? You you check it out and this is the place you check it out. This is one of the places you check it out. It really is love

[28:05]

this stuff. It's love. And I express my love to certain teachers by the way I do these things. When I Gassho my Gassho is an expression of love for Kadagiri Roshi the way I do it. And he feels my love for him in my Gassho or not. I don't

[29:06]

you know sit on a Zafu anymore because I sit on support cushions. Suzuki Roshi didn't sit on a support cushion he sat on a Zafu. But when I used to sit on a Zafu I used to express my love for Suzuki Roshi when I fluffed my Zafu. I used to fluff my Zafu to express the way he fluffed his Zafu and so on. Now there's so many things to talk about here. And also I just want to mention that when we were up in San Francisco I listened to some of these talks by Bob Thurman about the Bodhi thought of enlightenment and so on and he was talking about how in boot camps you know army boot camps

[30:07]

they can take a person a person who's kind of who had never hurt anybody who never has hurt anybody and they train them and he said in six months but I think actually boot camp is usually six weeks right? Three months? Anyway in some period from a fairly short period of time they can train a nice person into a trained killer somebody who can kill people without with no compunction and he was saying well how about if we trained people the other way around for three months or six months maybe we could train people to love people so he talked about love boot camp and I thought you know Tassajara is a love boot camp there could be a love boot camp boot camp has all kinds of rough associations but anyway I'm sorry about that but it could be a place where people learn how to love where people learn

[31:08]

how to express love period if you already know how please continue and if you if you want to you can use some of these Zen forms to extend and intensify the way you express your love so anyway some people here I've asked them you know like I like I asked Meili do you want me to give you do you want me to train you do you want me to give you feedback and she said yes so you maybe see me I'm always fussing with her adjusting her body all over the place lift your elbows up a little bit Meili the other day I lifted the elbows up they were gasshoing kind of like this get those elbows up there

[32:09]

so it's hands together like this and then like this now when I when I was about you know 20 years ago or something when I was a new priest I used to gassho like this I used to have a shashu like this a little bit too much maybe but anyway some it's not it's not against the body it's away from the body and some as sometimes teachers get older they start going like they start gasshoing like this a little bit more a little softer feeling you know the teachers old people sometimes I get into that a little bit myself but I think again I think of Kadagiroshi he still gasshoed like a beginner like a young like a training monk he hasn't graduated himself to be sort of like softer which is I think the softer way is nice

[33:11]

but I also think well it's also nice to show the other monks exactly how to do it rather than say this is how you do it and then I do it this way rather this is how you do it and I keep doing it this way because I keep expressing my love I keep showing it by doing it just the way I showed you even though I'm an old teacher and I could relax a little bit so I'm just you know I'm not saying right or wrong or better or worse but anyway there it is now I want to say a little bit more about this fifth ancestor you know the one who he was he was called the pine planting wayfarer you know and he met the fourth ancestor and he said would you teach me teach me about something or other what do you say

[34:11]

can I hear about the way of truth and the fifth ancestor said the fourth ancestor said you're already old if I teach you you know will you be able to spread it and said if you can come back I'll wait for you so then he went and bugged this girl and she got pregnant and he was born through her and then he grew up seven years later he got to meet the fourth ancestor again the fourth ancestor recognized him and took him back as his attendant I want to talk a little bit more about this what that what that means and I also wanted to say something about Zen again the thing about Zen is like Myo was talking about in his talk some teachings of Buddhism talk about the three bodies of Buddha right these fantastic presentations of that teaching

[35:12]

and Zen this guy says well which of these three bodies doesn't even fall into the category of three bodies and Dong Shan's response is kind of homely and simple I'm always close to this so part of what Zen had a reputation for is being kind of simple right and elegant not so fancy like I heard a story one time about this Zen guy and this this tantric master were somehow they got in this competition they were on a boat or something and somebody put them in competition with each other about demonstrating their powers and the tantric guy someone says well what can you do and the tantric guy said I can make a rainbow appear so he kind of went and this beautiful rainbow appeared off the end of the boat and the Zen teacher said

[36:15]

well I can make a golden rainbow appear too and he stood on the end of the boat and peed so this is part of what we associate with Zen something quite something quite simple something quite ordinary and humorous not such a big deal right kind of like what among the three bodies of Buddha does not fall in any category I'm always close to this so this is or I heard about that too or gee I don't know what do you think so we have the simple thing about Zen but then this kind of story sounds not so simple kind of fancy like going up to people and saying can I take can I take lodging here if you let me be reborn through you I'll leave you alone and then being reborn

[37:16]

and having 25 marks of Superman and you're 7 years old walking up to the fourth ancestor of Zen and saying I have a name but it's not an ordinary one this is not so or this is kind of little bit little bit dazzling right dazzle dazzle so we sometimes tend to separate the two into two schools but they're not really separate like again you know the story of Shantideva around the monastery they called him three things Mr. Three Things they used to call him Reverend Three Things because he only did three things right eat and sleep and shit so that was their nickname for him because he was very kind of looked like just kind of retarded somehow he got into Nalanda University but he never really seemed to be doing any work never participated

[38:17]

in the debates with any intelligence and then after being there a certain amount of time he had to grad they had to get rid of him so he came up for his degree orals before the whole community and so then they said to him okay it's your turn you're going to take the test and he said yeah I'll do it they didn't think he would do it they thought he would just run away when it came time for the test so they got the big examination thing set up with hundreds of people coming and the kings and stuff coming and they didn't think he'd show up but he showed up and then he sat before the big assembly and he said well would you like to hear something you've heard before or something that you've never heard before and they said well of course you'd like to hear something you've never heard before snicker snicker and then so then he delivered the

[39:18]

Bodhicaryavatara in this beautiful it's not only wonderful teaching which many of you have read but it turns out to be very beautiful Sanskrit poetry which is read not just by Buddhists but anybody who's interested in Sanskrit literature can enjoy it and then when he got to the ninth chapter on transcendent wisdom he started to lift his seat lifted off the ground his sabbaton came up off the ground with him on it it started gliding I believe southwest from Nalanda University and the scribe by the time he got to the ninth chapter people were writing down what he said after he wrote after he realized what he was doing they started to write it down so the scribe were running after him as he glided southwest and actually there is some problem about what the ninth chapter really is

[40:20]

because different scribes of course took it down differently because he was floating up in the air and some of them fell down and stuff on their notes so there's actually some debate about what the ninth chapter really is supposed to be finally he seemed to I don't know geared up and left them behind in the dust and he landed in a kingdom what do you call it a kingdom I forgot the name I think it's called Bushma Bushma and and he landed there and got off his magic carpet and started to look for work and he he didn't have any occupation of course being just a monk and so he decided to he decided to go to work for the Raja of the area he decided to join his bodyguard so he went in for an interview and

[41:21]

oh but before he went in for an interview he didn't have a sword so he he made a sword a wooden sword and he painted it with some gold paint or silver paint and so then he went in he went in and applied for the job and they hired him to be in the Raja's bodyguard so then I don't know at some point anyway all the bodyguards were doing something or other and they put their swords down and you know clink clink clink and he put his down and went laughter so so so the other the other bodyguards said laughter well wait a minute what do you got there so they picked it up

[42:22]

and they found out he had a wood sword a wooden sword they said well what kind of bodyguard are you and so we're going to tell the king on you so they brought him in they said they said hey look at this guy this guy's kind of a spy or something because he doesn't really have this is a not real sword he has the king says well what is this you know are you a spy he said well not exactly no I'm not a spy they said are you a real bodyguard well well no I mean you know I'm just looking for work I said well who are you he said well I'm my name's Shanti Deva I'm a Buddhist I'm a Buddhist monk but you know somehow I got here and so on and so forth well let's see that sword of yours

[43:22]

he said well I'd rather not show you this sword I don't think it'd be good for you to see it he said well show it to me anyway no I really think I don't think you want to see this sword your worship and he said well show it to me I want to see it he said well it really it won't be good for you to see it but if you want to see it I recommend that you at least cover one eye so the king covered one eye and he brought out the wooden sword and of course it shone with the brilliance of a million suns and burned out his eye and then the king realized that what was going on and the point of bringing that story up is that the the spectacular and the ordinary are not true this kind of stupid guy bumbling around the monastery that a fool

[44:26]

an idiot is often not the slightest bit different from the total radiance of the entire universe the universe doesn't sort of the universe doesn't sort of hang out someplace else it's always local you know and zen style is not just simple it is simple and it is beautiful because it's so simple it's not simple and then sort of like there's nothing in it it's simple as a way of saying you know it's not by the science it's not by the superficial qualities of things that you should be looking in simplicity it's actually a way to indicate that this is where Buddha's love is we don't have to say hey look at this this is Buddha's love right over here

[45:27]

look at that we just do it with our whole heart and people maybe can gradually figure out I wonder why they go around gasshoing all the time year after year century after century they put all their energy into transmitting these forms because the radiance of the most wonderful thing in the world is trying to be conveyed this love of Buddha is trying to be conveyed and we convey it through these forms so this is kind of a special story about this guy but anyway it's part of Zen too that there's stories like this I don't like to bother you too much and the other part of this story which I'd like to say is that in fact if somebody comes to a teacher Zen or otherwise and if they're old if they're old there's not much point

[46:27]

in giving them the teaching because they won't be able to spread it it's a waste of time the person needs to die the teaching should be given to babies to fresh sprouts you put the teaching on them and then they flower so no matter what age we are we've got to die and be born again and come up as a baby and learn the teaching as a baby that's when we say oh this is a wonderful teaching and with that youthful spiritual exuberance that's the spirit that will carry the teaching forth otherwise it's a waste of time it's like putting seeds on a dry field

[47:29]

so no matter what age we are we have to go down to the ground again we have to get a little hot on the ground we have to go down to the earth and receive the teaching way down low there so we can grow up with it clouds come over green areas they're more likely to drop their rain than when they go over dry areas because of the somehow the reflective quality of dark somehow stimulates the cloud in such a way that they drop the rain and the reflective quality of a desert or something stimulates the cloud differently so they hold it when they go over dry land and in some sense that seems unfair because you know the rainforest don't need the rain and the desert needs the rain but actually the rainforest can hold the rain and use the rain and the desert

[48:33]

just runs off it doesn't do any good to just keep pouring water on sand you have to put something in there some trees in there to get the the water to hold otherwise you just erode it more when I heard about this effect I I think it's a bible phrase that I never liked until I heard this effect and that is the rich get richer and the poor get poorer it seems unfair yeah is it the bible? yeah but it's also true that the enthusiastic ones because they're enthusiastic they see wonderful things everywhere and they get stuff and then because they get stuff they get more enthusiastic and they get more and those who don't see anything worthwhile they don't get anything and because they don't get anything they don't see anything worthwhile so they don't get anything that's why we have to die

[49:33]

you know and in Sesshin although it's kind of a controversial practice I feel that people do die in Sesshin I see most people die during Sesshin some people die more than others but most people strip away that old body strip away that hard crusty resistant person because it's just too painful to hold it for 7 days and they settle and they die and they're fresh and they're new at some point in the Sesshin and then if you put if Dharma falls on them it sinks in it takes root and it grows so I think that's part of what this story is about of the 5th ancestor that's part of what you're going through right now

[50:35]

or what we're all going through together and I hope the kitchen is going through it too I hope you guys aren't left out of this dying process I hope everyone can be part of this dying process and if they can't right now anyway then if we can be inspired by the practice hopefully we can give it to them at the nearest opportunity ok now I'd like to talk about this story of the 6th ancestor of Zen it's kind of late

[51:38]

and maybe the kitchen has to leave but I'd like to start this story today once there was a person he was his name was Lu Mr. Lu and he was he lived in the south part of China way down south in Canton you know where Canton is? Canton is way down like you know near Hong Kong it's like it's a port city isn't it? it's way down at the bottom of China at that time this is like 6 what do you call it 6 638 he was born in 638 at that time the southern part of China was was considered barbarian ville it's culture center is way thousands of miles to the north so he lived

[52:43]

he was born there and he had a humble actually his father was an official I believe so he had but his father died and so he and his mother were left pretty poor and he was not able to receive an order an education in other words Chinese education meaning he wasn't he wasn't taught to read or write but he got an education very nice education he made his living helping supporting himself and his mom by collecting firewood and selling it in the marketplace of Canton although Canton was a barbarian area Buddhism had reached there and in the marketplaces you would have various things going on sometimes even what do you call it fortune tellers people who would read your skull and even somebody

[53:44]

chanting the diamond sutra so as he was selling firewood in the marketplace he walked by this one guy who was reciting the diamond sutra when the guy got to section 10c which says a bodhisattva should produce a thought which abides nowhere which has no support which is not supported by anything not by colors sounds, smells and so on you know what those kind of thoughts are like? ever heard of those kind of thoughts? that's what we're talking about a thought that is not supported by anything a thought that nothing reaches doesn't have a seat doesn't have a friend doesn't have a neighbor just a thought a bodhisattva should produce thoughts like that why? because that's the kind of thoughts that are produced all thoughts are produced without any support anyway sutra says you should produce a thought like that when Huaineng heard that

[54:44]

I mean when Mr. Lu heard that he wasn't Huaineng yet when Mr. Lu heard that he was awakened he was a very concentrated salesman settled into his work very diligent want some wood? here you should produce a thought unsupported by anything okay, I'm awake now where did you where did you hear that one? this is the diamond sutra really? wow that's great stuff tell me more so the guy told him more about the diamond sutra and he also said if you want to learn more about this you should go a couple thousand miles north because there's a guy up there the fifth ancestor of Zen he's teaching about this diamond sutra you should go check it out he said okay so he started going see you later mom sorry so

[55:46]

on his way north he became friends with a very nice person named also named Lu Jur Lo and Lu Jur Lo's mother-in-law was a nun who constantly recited the Nirvana Sutra and he listened to her recite it and he asked her some questions about it and made some comments on it she said well who are you? well I'm Mr. Lu and she said hey maybe you'd like to meet some of my friends

[56:47]

and tell them what you just said to me or to them so he did and pretty soon there was a group of about a thousand people studying with him Mr. Lu he became a big-willed teacher on his way north after teaching for a year or so he said to himself wait a minute now here I am with this big congregation of students and I was on my way to study I'm not going to stop partway I'm going to finish see you later folks and he went kept going and then he finally finally got up there to see the fifth ancestor and here follows a love story one of the great love stories in the history of the world Chinese style okay so

[58:06]

he met the ancestor I think many of you know this story and the ancestor says where do you come from and he said from the south the deep south the ancestor said what are you seeking he said I just seek to be a Buddha the ancestor said southerners have no Buddha nature and Hui Nung said as far as people are concerned there are north and south but how could it apply to the Buddha nature the ancestor knew

[59:11]

this was not an ordinary person and remanded him to the rice pounding quarters of the monastery the master bowed and went right to work pounding rice he worked for eight months without rest pounding rice now this is that's the way the story is usually told but there's a little bit more elaborate version of it I wrote this down here something like

[60:14]

basically what happened was that the more elaborate version was that when Hui Nung said but when it comes to Buddha nature how could there be north and south the ancestor said well I guess basically what I'm trying to say is that the ancestor was trying to hide him and he could see it and he didn't this was an ordinary person right not even a monk not even an educated monk and here is a large assembly of hundreds of monks you see this guy walking off the street and it happens sometimes in places like this that the people who are already there it happens at Zen Center too if somebody walks in here and just by you know common condition

[61:14]

was already enlightened before they arrived even more enlightened than the teachers the people in the community might be jealous of the person say well this how come they got promoted to Ino instantly say well what can you say look at him look at her still people maybe hurt the person so you hide them and so some people are quite good but you don't give him any positions for many years if possible the longer the better convinced that this barbarian had real stuff Hong Ren was inclined was not inclined to converse more with him and he hesitated for fear of scandalizing the crowd of disciples who were not prepared to appreciate the quality of this uncultivated stranger so he ordered him to do some manual labor

[62:16]

Hui Nung unaware of the delicate tact of the teacher continued to talk saying I confess your reverence that I feel wisdom constantly springing from my own heart and mind so long as I do not stray from my nature I cannot carry within me the delusion of the field of bliss I cannot carry within me the field of bliss no excuse me I carry within me I carry within my delusion the field of bliss my delusion is a field of blessedness the teacher tried to cut him off by saying this barbarian is too sharp his nature and character are coarse don't say more get to the rice pounding room so he said

[63:20]

he said how can there be north and south in the buddha nature I can't help it this stuff is flowing out of me all the time my delusions are blessedness my ordinary conceptions are bliss in other words he didn't approach his feelings he didn't approach his perceptions he didn't approach his emotions because he didn't erode these are all our delusions because he didn't approach them because there was no leaking between this and that for him because he realized the mind that is not supported by anything everything was bliss and he was just sort of overflowing to want to tell the teacher after he traveled thousands of miles the guy said shut up get out of here get out of here this guy is really weird don't pay attention to him folks it was love at first sight and he tried to

[64:20]

get him out of the room before he got hurt there follows this story which you've also heard I think millions of times actor Hui Nung had been there eight months the ancestor announced that he was going to have a successor he was going to have a poetry contest and the best poem would be the successor now there was in that monastery but historically it's true there was in that monastery a noted and loftily learned great monk named Shun Shu Shun Shu he was the head monk and so everyone figured

[65:21]

well he'll win so and he thought there's various stories but anyway these are all just you know stories right just stories for your benefit passed to you by the buddhas and ancestors out of love okay so here's one story so Shun Shu is thinking to himself well everyone's probably expecting me to write a poem and they also expect me to win but you know I'm not sure my understanding is really that good so I think what I'll do is I'll put my poem on a pillar when nobody's watching and if the ancestor says it's good I'll say it's mine if he says it's not good I'll run away because I can always make a living because I'm very well educated so I'll be okay so he put he put his his poem up when nobody was watching on a pillar and the ancestor

[66:22]

came out read it and his poem was the body is the tree of enlightenment the mind is like a bright mirror stand time and time again wipe it diligently don't let any dust gather that was his poem it's a poem which you might say is a poem of cultivation of meditation and it leaks got a little leak in it okay a little leak it's a wholesome activity but it's got a leak in it the ancestor came up and saw it and figured out who wrote it and thought too bad but then he said to the monks he said this is a great poem you guys should memorize this and must be written by the head monk so then the monks

[67:25]

did memorize it and they walked around chanting it mind is the bodhi tree no the body is the bodhi tree the mind is like a bright mirror stand wipe it diligently and don't let any dust alight so they're going around like that in Chinese of course so one of them cruised by the rice pounding area and Hui Nung was in there pounding rice, right? very concentrated oh it's so fun bliss [...] and this guy goes by and says what's that? that's stupid that's stupid that poem is saying wipe the stuff away right? he knows

[68:26]

Hui Nung knows wipe the dust away the dust is bliss don't wipe it away don't wipe anything away just don't leak just don't take a stand anywhere and everything dust, mirror stand you name it everything is bliss everything is delusion and delusion is bliss as long as you're not separated from it as long as there's no seam between you and it all objects all dust dust is bliss as long as you don't activate any thoughts around it he realized that so when he heard this poem he said that's a stupid poem that's bad medicine and he said so so the monk who he heard chanting it he said that was not so good that poem the monk said who are you to talk like that this is written by the head monk and the ancestor said this is great how dare you oh well sorry I didn't know

[69:28]

I didn't mean to be disrespectful bliss [...] he said hey hey guess what I'd like to do I thought of a poem myself and I don't know how to write so I wonder if you could write it for me the guy says kind of like a repeat of Shantideva sure I'll write it so he had the guy write his poem on the pillar and the ancestor saw it and the ancestor knew who wrote it so here comes the this is kind of like another major moment in the love story you can probably like this sexually master goes to the rice ponding area and there is Hui Nung going and he says is the rice

[70:30]

white yet and Hui Nung says no yes it's white but it hasn't been sifted and the ancestor has got his carrying his staff with him is the white is the rice white yes it's white but it's not sifted what are you doing here by the way Mr. Ancestor did you see my poem it's not sifted and the ancestor took his staff and and hit the mortar and Hui Nung took the sift during what so they had a communication there the love

[71:32]

the love okay that's not the end of the story but anyway that's the part I like best and the ancestor says hey why don't you come over to my place about midnight tonight so wait Mr. Lu says he's not Hui Nung yet Mr. Lu said yes sir I'll be there so that night he went at midnight and the ancestor taught him a little bit more about the Diamond Sutra and he gave him a ball and a robe gave him the robe that Bodhidharma gave to Huika and Huika gave to Sun Tsan Sun Tsan gave to Dao Shin

[72:33]

and Dao Shin gave to Da Hong Ren gave him that robe the robe of faith to show people the transmission of the Buddha way and the bowl to collect food with and he said now you better get out of here because when these guys find out about this they're going to be mighty pissed off that a workman has got my Dharma so let's go and so he and he walked him down to the to this place where you catch a boat he caught this boat and got away and so that's it that's the story oh

[73:33]

well there's a lot of interesting things in there besides that but then he got his name Hui Nung at that time which is similar to Eka's name Huika's name Hui Nung means able or active wisdom yeah what was his poem? his poem? oh his poem was enlightenment is basically not a tree you don't know that word you don't know that word and the clear mirror not a stand fundamentally there is not a single thing so where can dust collect so it doesn't have any leaks in it yes that rhymes too doesn't it

[74:41]

so then after after Hui Nung got away the ancestor didn't lecture anymore and people came and asked him what was going on he said my way is gone someone asked him who got your your robe and your teaching the answer just said able one got them and then people reasoned hey workman's Lu's name was Nung able but they looked for him and he was gone nobody in the rice pond knew him anymore they realized he had gotten the robe and the bowl and they went after him so we may we may go after him too we may follow him hmm

[75:58]

isn't that a nice love story great love stories so I I how can I say you know I I have this book which somebody loaned me it's called Simone Bile Reader and I've never seen a picture of Simone Bile but that's the picture from the beginning of the book she's very good looking now of course she's dead but very beautiful and I'm I'm married and I'm very devoted to my wife but I thought geez if Simone Bile was alive right now combination of her spirituality and her looks would be tough but then I thought

[77:11]

there'd be no problem no problem my devotion to my wife and my love for Simone Bile there's no problem between the two no problem the wonderful thing about this kind of love is that there's no problem it doesn't it doesn't hinder your love for anybody else the sixth ancestor's love for the fifth ancestor and vice versa there's no problem it's a great blessing to the world it doesn't interfere with anything that's what's so great about it still I wish I would have met Simone Bile she must have been quite a person my god anyway we need

[78:12]

we need this kind we have to have this kind of relationship and it's a one-to-one thing and then it can spread one-to-one [...] it's very important in Buddhism yes yes but then what did he do? did he go back to his mother? we don't know he did go back and and not only that but his mother was some was the woman

[79:12]

who raised this person to become this great benefactor to the whole world the merit of her doing that is incredible I mean not incredible it's totally it's the most credible thing you can think of my feeling is her sentiments compared to what she did like Mrs. Oksan Suzuki Oksan she can go back I know I'm talking to something there right she can go back right now to Japan all right and she has a daughter and a granddaughter and her granddaughter is married now and has baby she can go back and be a babysitter in Japan and be very comfortable okay

[80:15]

watching TV and having Japanese doctors and and living there she can also stay in America and do what she's doing what's she doing here she's not babysitting well she's babysitting for a huge community of people what she's doing here I'm not saying it's more important than being a babysitter in Japan but there's thousands of people who can babysit that baby but there's only one person in the world that can do her job presents her and she's incredibly important right her human sentiment might be to go back and babysit where it's comfortable and Japanese television not just on Saturdays and Sundays but it's not like I don't see it that Hoi Nam left his mother I see that Hoi Nam's mother produced him to become what he produced

[81:16]

what he was and this was this is her tremendous offering to the history of the world he went back south and I don't know we could say his mother was still alive and happy to see him in Shakyamuni Buddha's case his wife and mother survived to receive his teaching after his enlightenment we could say that she was still alive and happy and he went back there and she said I'm so proud of you it's worth you know I missed you but you know we can say that but even if she wasn't alive anymore it's not so important what he did for her what she did for him was that she was part of what made him did she give him her permission we don't know if she didn't give him listen to this if she didn't give him her permission if she was against him doing what he did that would be very bad for her can you see that

[82:16]

do you understand that no I'll just say that to you then if she was worried about her own health or whatever rather than him going off to do what he was doing understanding what he was doing then that would be very bad for her that would send her into a very bad state because she would be stuck she would be you know fighting something very great we don't know that she fought it she might have seen this is what my son wants to do this is great I trust him he's a wonderful boy do you think Hui Nung was a mean kid before he left I don't think so he was a wonderful person all the way through I think he was always a great kid when I went to study Zen you know my parents didn't understand what Zen was but they knew me they saw me grow up

[83:19]

they saw me go to college put myself through college do what I did there go to graduate school do what I did there go to graduate school again do what I did there and they thought well we don't know what he's doing but he's demonstrated pretty good judgment so far and if it makes you happy dear it's okay so I left with them not understanding what I was doing and feeling a little bit bad about it because you know my education was not going to be able to be used in this thing it's a traditional thing but they still trusted me if they hadn't trusted me then that would have been too bad for them that's all if they hadn't if they hadn't supported me they just would have not supported me in doing something that in fact was very good for me and very good for them five or ten years later they came to Zen Center and saw what I was doing

[84:20]

and saw the people at Zen Center and were overawed by what a wonderful group of people were here how kind they were to them they were so proud of me to be associated with this way if they had not approved of it before I went that just would have been you know a strike against them my leaving them was definitely for their benefit when I left them part of my motivation was I have to leave you and many other people I love in order to do something that was my motivation definitely because people didn't want me to leave Minnesota they were sad to see me go because they loved me but I said to them because I love you I'm going and it's still true and I'm much better to all those people

[85:20]

than I was before I left I'm a much better son than I was when I left so anyway that's how I feel about this kind of thing and to support somebody who's going off to do the right thing is very beneficial to you the supporter to interfere with somebody who's heading in the right direction is disastrous to you doesn't stop them necessarily they'll still go and do the right thing but it's very bad to interfere with somebody doing a good thing she didn't actually interfere with them so I think we really have to be clear about what's going on here if we're heading off in a good direction then that's good if we're heading off in a wrong direction then whether people

[86:21]

support us or not is not the point so for me you know I have a I have a case with my wife okay I'm here at Tassajara not with her and the only way I can figure out how to be and I like to be at Tassajara I'm very happy here in some ways I'm happier here than I am at Green Gulch but it's a problem because my wife doesn't want me to be here the only way I can figure out how to work this out is through is from the point of view of devotion to that person to her I can't put my I can't put my desire or anybody else's desires or needs ahead of hers I'm going to have to work it out from the point of view of giving her what she wants I don't know how I'm going to do that

[87:23]

that's part of what you know this problem next year is about how I'm going to come back to Tassajara again I can't leave her to do what I want the only way I could leave her against her will was if I was really sure it was better for her I can't help one person while hurting another I can't move on if that's the case I think that's the tradition that Hoi Anon was practicing too I don't think he I don't think he went to help his own understanding and forsaking his mother's benefit if he did then that's what he did but I I don't uphold that way what do you think? yeah I think it's a very old

[88:26]

I like your response I think it's a very old story between men and women and I think it's often very painful yeah whichever direction it is sometimes a woman leaves a man once in a while right? you're giving me answers the other way and I'm not going to give you the right answer yeah right but even if it happens the other direction it's still painful men don't like their wives to go and leave them either I guess yours doesn't mind? no comment? thank you very painful for you to be here for him? no comment? well pain is not

[89:26]

necessarily a bad if everybody's clear that the motivation is unselfish if you're inflicting pain on if I'm inflicting pain on somebody else for my benefit then it's a problem but if I'm acting for their benefit and it hurts them then beneficial is hurt sometimes it hurts people to do something beneficial for them but I don't do something beneficial for me and then hurt them so I don't hurt somebody I don't want to hurt somebody else for me to come to Tassajar but if somebody else is benefited by me coming to Tassajar and it hurts them then maybe I can do it but it has to be pretty clear that it benefits them and it hurts

[90:30]

when people love each other it usually hurts if they're separated so it is a problem and I'm right in the middle of it right now myself it's kind of it's a big problem because I want to be at Tassajar and at the same time the situation at Green Gulch anyway sorry to if this was uncomfortable for you to listen to was it? was it? wasn't that it? sorry to keep you

[91:41]

so long may our intention be free and free

[91:50]

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