This is going to be a little bit of a review. I'm going to write the names of some people on here, which is a little bit of a review. So, there is... Can you see the black one? Oh, there's the... That means Shakyamuni. That means Buddha. So it's an S with a slash on it. Slash means, in Sanskrit, diacritical, which means sh. So it's Shakyamuni Buddha. B with a circle around it is Buddha. This is just my short version, OK? The first case of the book of Serenity is about Shakyamuni Buddha. And then you go 28 generations down through Shakyamuni Buddha.

[01:11]

And the second case is about Bodhi. The beam of the circle is Dharma. The second case is about Bodhidharma. Third case is about Prajnaparamita. This is one step backwards. Prajnaparamita is Bodhidharma's feature. The fourth case is about about Shakyamuni and his game. The fifth case goes seven generations down from Bodhidharma.

[02:25]

Well, in Chinese, it's... In the morning service, we say... He is the 37th... No, he is the 34th generation after Shakyamuni Buddha. Okay. Sixth case. Punch ones around the room. I have an argument. Are you caught up now? It's hard to see. It's hard to see it? Yeah. Maybe you can move. I do.

[03:31]

The sixth case is about, this is going to be worse, I think, but sixth case is about the mod suit. Worse? Worse, isn't it? How about this color? The sixth page is about Matsu. Matsu is one more generation. He is the... This man is his... Chingyurang, Seigen Gyoshi, is Matsu's uncle. So he is a disciple, a different disciple of the sixth page work. So he is... This is the... 35th generation. No, it's 38th generation. What is that?

[04:34]

35th. 35th, yeah. 35th generation. Okay. And also in this case, in this story here, are also featured by John and Xi Kang, and Lan Chuan, among others. And the second case is about Yao Shan, And Yaoshan is the 36th generation. He is the disciple of, he is, Sagan, Chingyuan Sagan is his grandfather.

[05:37]

He is the 36th generation from Buddha. And the eight people we are now, we have five down. Excuse me, wouldn't that make him 37th generation? Make Yaoshan 37th? Why? Oh, no, no, it's a great fun. Sorry. So Baizhang, and Baizhang is same generation as, see, he's, so Matsu's 35, so Baizhang, Xitang, and Nanshuang are 36. So Baizhang's 36, like Yaoshan. So Yaoshan and Baijian are cousins. Dharma cousins. Dharma cousins. Because the Sixth Patriarch had two main disciples, Chingyuan and Nanyue, two great disciples of the Sixth Patriarch.

[06:45]

And from Chingyuan comes Sekito and all that stuff. and from Nanyue comes Matsu, and from Matsu comes Baijiang, and from Nanchuan comes Zhaozhou, and from Baizhang comes Wangbo, and Guishan, and from Wangbo comes Linji, and all the Rinzai, and from Guishan comes the Guishan and Yangshan, and so on. So those, this particular chunk of brothers and cousins and uncles and grandfathers and stuff, this is like the intense core of the Zen lineage. And this is Scott Ren. So you see the way it's filled here, sort of? One, and then jumping to the first Zen transmission, and then taking one step back to give a little context on him, then back to Shakyamuni again, then jumping past the Sixth Patriarch, and then to 34, and then Matsu, 35, and his disciples, and then Yaoshan,

[08:07]

and Baijian. So if you go back one case, a case from Baijian 8, you see Baijian functioning in case number 6. Where's the 6th patriarch? The 6th patriarch is, hasn't been seen. No, I mean in time, historical sequence. Number 33. 33 generations from Shakyamuni, 6 generations from Bodhidharma. Bodhidharma is the 28th Indian ancestor. He was the first Chinese ancestor. Prajnatara is the 27th Indian ancestor. He never went to China as far as we know. So Bodhidharma is number 1 Zan and number 28 Indian. Okay. Yes, that's right.

[09:22]

Right. I told Bodhidharma not to go to the south, and then he said, if you do go to the south, don't stay long, and if you do stay long, don't say much. Are there people sitting in the floor behind back there? Are you happy back there? I'm not. Why don't you come up? Why don't you come up so I can see you? You can sit right here on the couch. Come on, Margo. Okay. So you got the story? Does anybody want to tell the story? Want to tell the story? Want to tell the story? No? Want to tell the story, Alicia? Our story? Want to tell it? Yeah.

[10:28]

Would you want to? No? Okay. Maya, would you like to tell the story? No? Maria Angelis, would you like to tell the story? No. No? Carolyn, would you like to tell the story? No. Lara, would you like to tell the story? Martina, would you like to tell the story? What? No? No? The story about this case. Okay. Scott, would you like to tell the story? Oh.

[11:31]

It's case number eight. Do you know case number eight, the story? You don't. Anthony, would you like to tell the story? Sure. When Bhajan lectured... Not read it, tell it. Tell it. Bhajan was lecturing in the hall and... Whenever he lectured in the hall. Whenever he lectured in the hall, an old man came to listen. And one time after... And when he came to listen, when the monks left, he always left with the monks. And one time he stayed Right. And walked up to Bajon and said... No, Bajon, he stayed and Bajon said... Who are you? Yeah. Who are you standing there? What have we here? He said, I used to be the patriarch, or I used to be the head of this mountain.

[12:33]

Right. And... Just say something. So, he explained the story of him. A student of his asked him, would you somehow fall out of consequence? Would you somehow fall out of consequence? Who's you? A great teacher? Yeah, would a great teacher, would an enlightened person or a highly cultivated being, would they fall into cause and effect? Right. Or not? Or not. He said, something said that maybe they don't have to fall into cause and effect.

[13:36]

They don't fall, no, they don't, they do not fall into cause and effect, he said. And was turned into a fox for 500 lifetimes. Right, right. And asked Baizhang, after telling him the story, please turn the word. And Baizhang did turn the word and he said that But then he said, would the Master please say a turning word for my benefit? And then he asked the question that was originally asked to him. He said, does an enlightened person or a highly cultivated person fall into cause and effect or not? And Bhajan said, No, he didn't. What? He didn't say the same thing, no.

[14:38]

He said... What? He said, does not... is not blind to cause and effect or does not obscure cause and effect. Or does not evade cause and effect. The old man became very enlightened. The old fox. And then the following day... No, he said something, then he said something. That's the end of the story in this book. But then the full story, which appears in some other collections, like the Munmon Khan, the rest, he said to, then he said to Baijian, after he was awake and he said, don't know, maybe you don't know that part. Somebody else know that part? You do? Say it loud, because you've got your back to people. His fox body was dead, and if they went to the side of the mountain and looked at a certain place... He said, I'm released from the body of the fox, thanks to you.

[15:42]

And that night or the next night... He said, Master, would you please... Yeah, you release me from the fox body, and you can find this fox body behind the mountain. would you please go and do a ceremony for me like you would for a monk? And then Bhaijaan... And he did, yeah. Then Bhaijaan told Eno to announce that there will be a funeral ceremony for a monk after the noonday meal. After Zazen. And the monks looked at each other and they were kind of wondering what was the matter because no one was sick and no one was in the Nirvana Hall.

[16:48]

Nirvana Hall was what they called the infirmary in those days. Later they changed the name from Nirvana Hall to the Hall of Prolonging Life. Because the monks got nervous being sent to the Nirvana Hall. Because, you know, Nirvana happens sort of around death sometimes. So anyway, that was later development. Anyway, at that time it was called Nirvana Hall and there was nobody in it and everybody else seemed healthy, so... Oh, I forgot. Did I say Eva? Did I say your name? Okay. And so they looked around and they were in wonder. Anyway, then they went up The mountain, all the monks went up there, and behind the mountain, behind the mountain means usually like a temple's like sitting here on the mountain. The mountain goes back like that, right? That's where they built temples, like up the mountainside. Behind the mountain means like over the other side of the mountain.

[17:50]

So they went over the mountain that they were on, which was called Baijiang, by the way, and they found this rock, and Baijiang poked out with his staff, this fox body. They took the fox body and cremated it and did a cremation ceremony for it like they would for a monk. And then that night, Bajang went up to the hall, the Dharma hall, and told the story to the monks about what had happened after they left and he had that conversation with that old man. And then what happened? Huang Bo spoke. Yeah. He said, well, that's what happens to that fellow who answered incorrectly. But what happens if you answer correctly term after term? And Bai Zhang said, come here and I'll tell you. Come closer. Come closer, yeah.

[18:52]

And Huang Bo approached and slapped him. Bai Zhang clapped his hands and said, I knew those foxes had red beards. Here's another red-bearded fox. Right. And the other translations say, I heard that the barbarian had a red beard, and now I see here is a red-bearded barbarian. That's the full story. And we read the commentary there. And... Is there anything in the commentary you want to discuss before we go on to the verse? I could, but I feel some resistance to do so.

[19:58]

Why do I? I guess maybe because I'd like you to comment. I've been thinking about it for a few days. I just don't know. Nothing comes to me. Are you interested in what would happen if he had answered correctly time after time? No. You're not? No, he's interested in that motion. It may be that you would need to be interested in that in order to imagine, then you could imagine yourself going up to your teacher after you ask that question and then walk up to your teacher and see if you feel the impulse to slap him when he invites you to come close.

[21:01]

Or she invites you to come close. I'll try it again. Well, yeah, you sort of, you can't, you can't, well, I don't know, you can't, but it may be that you, that until you have that causal situation yourself, that something like that won't make sense to you. I guess that's what I'm saying. but the causes and conditions were such that he asked that question. And Baijian invited him to come close, and when he got up there, he just slapped him. And the... the... This case is about how to practice the enlightened path, right?

[22:07]

This is a story about how to practice zazen or Buddhist meditation. Buddhist meditation is the way Buddhas think and act. I guess I believe, or I trust that Bhajan's intention anyway was to live a life of not obscuring cause and effect, not being blind to cause and effect, not evading cause and effect. That's my... That's my faith. That's the way I feel about the lineage, this lineage, is that it's a lineage of this kind of living, the kind of living called not evading cause and effect.

[23:11]

And as you enter into that way of living, then your acts come from that way of living. They don't come from what you think should happen, or from what you think shouldn't happen, or from not what you think should happen, and so on. They come from causes and conditions, just like they always do anyway. But somehow, even though all action comes from causes and conditions, somehow when you have the opportunity to be totally dedicated to simply what's happening without bringing anything to it, somehow it seems like people do wonderful, unpredictable and very helpful things Not to say they don't otherwise, but they just, miraculous and amazing things seem to emanate from the meditation which is simply not evading cause and effect.

[24:30]

And some of these things that they do, we have trouble understanding. Like when the monks heard about Bajong doing a funeral ceremony for a fox, first of all for someone that they didn't even know about, plus then when they saw the ceremony being done for the fox, they probably thought this was very strange. Can you imagine? In a lot of ways, I imagine that they're very strict and conservative in certain ways. So to go up and do a funeral ceremony for a fox, especially a funeral ceremony like you would for a monk, and there's certain rules about how you do ceremonies for monks and lay people and so on. To do that, the monks must have been shocked. But you can see that the reason why he was doing it is because that old man asked him, right? Partly. Not only did the old man ask him, but the old man had been released. by his work they were very close friends. So it looks like a kind of a far out thing to do but when you understand the causes and conditions it's not so far out. Maybe when maybe when Huang Bo got up close to Bai Jiang maybe Bai Jiang kind of winked at him or something.

[25:39]

We don't know exactly what happened up there close. Anyway this hand came up and So we don't copy him, right? Need to understand his motivation for asking the question? Yeah, can you see some motivation for asking that question? It seems like he was asking the or not. What do you mean he was asking the or not? Well, why don't you work on this, you know, we're going to work on this the rest of the night and work on this some more.

[27:12]

Anyway, that's, I guess, my, I didn't, I hesitated to comment, but I somehow got into commenting. And again, I'm saying one way to look at this is that bhajan is living a life of trying not to evade cause and effect or obscure cause and effect, blind cause and effect. Those three words are kind of good words because evade cause and effect one way you evade cause and effect is that it's something over there that you can evade or not evade. That's one way you would evade it. Is that clear? Clear to you? Michael? One way to evade cause and effect is to like see it as something that you could evade. Like there's cause and effect there and I'm going to go away from it. That's one way to evade it. One way to evade cause and effect would be to think, oh, this doesn't apply on these circumstances.

[28:18]

Okay, that would be one way to evade it. Does everybody follow that? Another way to evade it would just be to think that it's over there and you could evade it. Not to actually try to evade it, but to think that it could be evaded, that's a kind of evasion. It's not that kind of thing that you can evade. To think that you could evade it is a kind of evasion. Also, that's the same as obscuring. This word that he used means obscure, evade, blind, suppress, all those things. Each of them has a different aspect. Obscure cause and effect would mean, again, If you look at, you might think that obscure cause and effect would be that you would kind of cover it or misunderstand it. But again, to see cause and effect as in any way separate from yourself is to obscure cause and effect. In the same way, when you're practicing Buddhist meditation, to see anything as separate from yourself is obscuring cause and effect.

[29:24]

Okay? Or to see something separate from yourself, you blind yourself to cause and effect. Because you don't see cause and effect if you don't include yourself in cause and effect, or if you don't see that cause and effect includes you. To live in that kind of place, and again, to do that kind of meditation, I'm saying this over and over, to do that kind of meditation is again, not something you can do. You can't say, okay, now I'm going to do that. You can't do the way you are. This is the way you are. And yet, even though you can't do the way you are, you dedicate yourself to be the way you are. And you ask all sentient beings to help you, which seems fair since you're dedicating your life to help them. And you ask them to help you. And you also believe that all sentient beings, that the thing that, the one thing There's one thing that all sentient beings are helping you do.

[30:27]

And that is not to obey cause and effect. That's the thing everybody's helping you do. Yeah. I was thinking the first teaching of Shakyamuni Buddha was a teaching of cause and effect, wasn't it? The first teaching? First of all, truth is the effect, and the second one is the cause. Yep. Actually, the content of his enlightenment was the 12-fold link of causation. How causation works was the... What Buddha was meditating on as he was enlightened was cause and effect. That's what he was meditating on. But again, he wasn't meditating like he's sitting over here looking at cause and effect. What was happening for him was cause and effect. I mean... Again, he wasn't looking over there. It's just that his life was cause and effect. He saw how his life was cause and effect, how he was born, how he dies, how his life developed by cause and effect. That was his enlightenment.

[31:30]

And so the four truths are the... I can see them easily as cause and effect in that sense. Yeah. But the curious thing is, the cause, we often, most of the time, say cause and effect, but the sequence was the effect and then the cause. Yeah, he first said the effect. Number one is the effect, number two is the cause, number three is an effect, and number four is a cause. However, also, those four are interdependent, and you can't have one without the other. they're also simultaneous. Anyway, in that situation is where Wang Bo hopefully asked his question from. It seemed like, it seemed like he did, at least, it seems like I see Wang Bo, I mean, it seems like Bai John thought he did because Bai John was very happy that he got slapped in the face. I think, I would guess that Bai John felt, hey, this is what I'm talking about.

[32:36]

This is what I'm here for. This is Zen meditation enacted here. Isn't this in like, this is all, I mean, when I first read this, the second time, Rajon says, come here and I'll tell you. I almost thought it was a joke. I mean, like, say, come here and I'll tell you. He didn't say come here and tell you. He didn't say that. He said come closer. He said come here and I'll tell you. And so... He tells a joke and there's a punchline in it, almost like Wang Bo is giving him the punchline. I mean, literally. But I mean, what's possible to say to that question?

[33:37]

I mean... What's possible to say to what question? Wang Bo's question? Yeah, right. So he sort of makes a joke. He says... Well, you could say he made a joke, but I would also say that he was going to show them. He wasn't going to necessarily tell them the answer, he was going to show them. We don't know what he was going to show them, but he probably was going to show them what happened. He called them close and he showed them, he showed himself being slapped by him. and enjoying it and what he said could it be that that's that that's what it's about namely showing just showing like that anybody I guess my point is I don't think that he had anything really to explain there's nothing to explain no my purpose was

[34:46]

Well, I mean, I just think he just naturally, I think he just popped up there to say, come closer. That's just what he said. He could have said, get out, too. Right. And then when Wang Bo walked out of the room, he might have found that it was raining or something. And Bai Jiang might have enjoyed that, too. To the same. He might have clapped when he saw him up there on the deck outside the room in the rain, staring out into the rain like a moron. I think the point is anyway that, not the point is, but the feeling I have is that if somebody's asking about what it's really like, if he answers correctly every time, if he's asking about what that's like, then he wants to be invited into what's happening.

[35:56]

So, let's have the courage to invite him into what's happening. And then when we get there, let's enjoy what it is. And maybe he'll do something himself. Let's look at what it would be like for him to answer correctly every time. Okay, what would that be like? Now, does correctly mean that if he had said the same thing that Bajon had said, would that have been correct? If he said, instead of saying, no, he does not fall into cause and effect, how about if he had said, he does not obscure cause and effect, would that have been the right answer? Maybe. But would it have been the right answer again? And again? And again? What do you think? Probably not. It's fairly unlikely, isn't it, that it would be the same answer? But maybe so. But fairly unlikely.

[36:59]

Does anybody have any feeling that that's fairly unlikely? You don't? What do you think? I feel like chanting Amida Buddha. Amida Buddha. At some point, it would do the same thing as Azi. Pardon? It'd be like chanting Amida Buddha. At some point, it would do something similar to Azi. But I mean, you know, again and again, the way I understand again and again is that somebody would ask again and again, does he fall into cause and effect? On different occasions. you might say the same thing over and over. That there is that case. Like one teacher, one Zen teacher, every time he was asked, what's Buddhism or what's the meaning of Zen or something, he would always raise one finger. Always gave the same answer. So it is possible that somebody would give the same answer over and over. But it's also fairly likely that you don't give the same answer because circumstances change. But you might give the same answer

[38:01]

Even though things change, you might give the same answer, but this is not the right answer, right? This is just, I'm going to give the same answer every time. That wasn't, he didn't give the right answer every time, he just did this every time. But the right answer, what's the right answer? The answer that caused him to look back into himself, like the slab or the finger. Yeah, the right answer is the right answer. The right answer is what helps that monk, whoever that is asking the question. And the immediacy of the slap is pretty much carried down from those 36th lineage down to the present. I mean, the slap still works. The slap still can work, but no slap also works, right? No slap also works. It's more common. No slapping is. But does it work? Depends on what the mom needs. Depends on what the mom needs.

[39:06]

Yeah, right. But I mean, how many of you people don't get slapped most days? Does that work? And yet we can't go around slapping people just because not slapping hurts. I mean, not slapping doesn't work. Once there's been an exchange of slaps between teacher and student, whichever direction it goes in, I think that slap, you can have that slap again and again. You can have that slap. You can have that same answer every day, in a way, all those changes. Right, sure. Isn't there something... He says, come closer. What comes to mind? He's saying, come closer to the causing effect. Like you were saying, don't put it over there. Is it possible? Yeah, I don't think it's a joke so much, although it could be a joke. I think it's like an invitation to come and see if you can act out what it's like to give the right answer.

[40:10]

Yeah, I think the joke is the wrong joke, but I could see him smiling. The long bow gets up and starts to come closer. And he thinks, oh, that was my friend. And he slaps him. Yeah. Yeah, it's simple enough. It could be that simple, definitely. It could also be that Wang Bo wasn't asking an intellectual question. He was actually saying, Okay, teacher, what's it like to really do it? What makes a right answer? Let's find out what does it mean to make a right answer? What's it like when it's always a right answer? What's that like? Wasn't he just manifesting cause and effect right there in front of his own teacher? And that answer, he gave him an example of cause and effect. And that answer would always be right.

[41:11]

Anybody coming up and manifesting cause and effect. He hit him and he turned him into a red-bearded fox. He hit who and turned who? Who turned who into a red-bearded fox? Wayne Poe. Turned by Jean. into a red-bearded fox. Do you understand that Bai Zhang is the one who's calling the other one the red-bearded fox? I know, I disagreed with you. You said it the other way around to me. The other thing is that I saw in just those terms is that the student came up and showed the teacher, yes. But I mean, I want to understand, are you saying that you understand differently than it says in the book? Is that what you're saying? I'm saying that Bai Zhang is calling his students He's calling himself a red-bearded fox. Yes, but... The student has turned him into a red-bearded fox. I know that's what you're saying, but are you saying that because you are intentionally disagreeing with what it says in the text? I'm reading it differently. I'm interpreting it differently. I guess I'm not seeing that that's what it says in the text.

[42:12]

I didn't understand that. I understood it the way I said it. It says, by John said. So what do you think that means? Here is a red-bearded fox. Oh, I see. I thought the barbarian had red beard, but here I see. You have given, you have made me a red, he said. Oh, I see. Space. I see. Space is red. Cause and effect? It will cause an effect. I saw this idea. The whole thing is having an edge on it. The question being put to the teacher, sort of in the spirit, well, if you're so smart, you know, okay, so that's him. How about somebody like you, who answers right turn after turn?

[43:16]

What's your story? Yeah, right. So come closer, let's see. And then he slaps him, and then you turn it again. Sometimes we forget how to turn it. She saw it, how to turn it again. Nobody else brought that up before, right? So it's constantly turning. And you never know what word's going to turn. Some words have to hold still for another one to turn. Can I ask you about the style in which these koans are written? The styles in which they're written? Well, you know, they're amazingly free of emotion and passion, yet they evoke an amazing amount of emotion and passion, these stuarts. But they don't really talk about the feelings. I mean, they don't say, they don't say, usually, they sometimes say so-and-so experience great pain.

[44:20]

They sometimes say, you know, like there's another story about when Baijian was walking with Matsu and some wild geese flew over. And Matsu asked Baijian, what's that? And Baijian said, wild geese. And Matsu said, where are they going? And Bhaijaan said, they're flying away. And Matsu twisted his nose and in great pain, and he had felt great pain. Yeah, but that's, that's not... But he didn't say he hurt his feelings. No. And they didn't say that, and they almost never say the monk got angry. Right. All of that happens a lot. That happens a lot, but they almost never write that down because guess what happens when the monk gets angry? Guess what happens?

[45:23]

Guess. They don't write it down. They don't write it down, and why don't they write it down? Because they didn't get it. Right. It's very common, but they don't write it down because when the monk gets angry, the monk doesn't get it. It doesn't mean you should stop getting angry. Don't suppress your anger. But when you get angry, you don't get it. Or when I get angry, I don't get it. When you get it, you don't get angry. Now, you can be angry and then get it. Can anybody think of a story where the monk was already angry at the beginning? There's stories where the monk... What? There are stories. For example? Can we go on while you're thinking of that?

[46:32]

Actually, I think we'd better go into next week. I'll try to research it. This story, I don't think it comes out of our lineage, but I remember reading of A leader in a Japanese encounter between a samurai and some Zen teacher. The samurai became very enraged. Actually, a couple. I think two or three stories long. Like where a samurai presents himself to a Zen teacher and says, I've transcended. I'm just here to pick up my certification. The teacher hits him. He said, you better work on it some more. Also, the story of the sixth patriarch being pursued by a general who wants to take his life. A former general. A former general who wants to take his life. He's a monk who threatens to kill him. But he definitely, there's no mention of him being angry, though. There's a story about a younger monk looking for an older monk who's correctly answered a call.

[47:44]

And the younger monk wants to know the answer, and the older monk refuses. And at some point, he becomes angry and threatens to kill him. And then what? And then the monk said, wait a second, I'll tell you. And he says, even if I tell you, you'll have no place to put it. And then he becomes, the younger monk becomes remorseful. He's both angry and remorseful. That's the one I was thinking. What I mean is, what I'm saying is, the monks don't wake up when they're angry. I don't know any stories like that, of the person waking up while angry. Yeah. [...] I don't think he got it.

[49:01]

You don't think he got it? No. I mean, that's not the way I heard the story. No, but when his friend said that, didn't he get it? Maybe. I don't think so, though. I think that's the end. You're still... We get it. We get it. And also, most of us are not angry at that monk. We're just hearing the stories. How about the empty boat? Is that one? Oh, you're angry at the person in the boat? The boat's coming? And then you see that... Yeah, but that's not an enlightenment. Yeah, but it's not an enlightenment story. It's just a... It's imagining yourself in a boat. It's a Taoist story. It's a Taoist story. No, but it is a kind of awakening, but it's a structural story.

[50:02]

I mean, it's not a story about something happening between people. All these enlightenment stories are between people. If the monk... What do you think of that? Except for Shakyamuni Buddha, who was alone with the star. What? I can't remember. It's not in this book. Oh, these enlightenment stories. Yes? Well, it's the, Hannah was talking about the teacher said, well, you're still carrying her. A fellow monk. Yeah, you're still carrying her. And the other monk didn't get it. Well, then would you say that the monk that said you're still carrying her didn't say the right thing? That's right. But it made it into koan anyway. It's a good story, yeah. Not all koans have enlightenment as part of the thing, so it's a koan.

[51:05]

I'm just saying, looking at the stories, when the person was awakened, were they ever angry at the moment of awakening? I don't know of a case like that, and I think that being angry at that moment, anyway, it blocks the awakening. No. Just anger. That anger is the most, is the worst. Because attachment, you see, when you're holding on to something, is a good time to find out that it's not there. But when you're avoiding it, when you're avoiding something, you don't notice that you didn't have to do it. That's the anger. Yeah. Yeah. you know, but when you're holding onto something to find out that it's not there. So there's many stories like that. The person brings something and then they can't find it. They're holding onto something and it falls to their hand.

[52:05]

That's the very Just like this story, this new interpretation. The teacher invites the monk to come closer to find out what it means to give the right answer. The student slaps him and suddenly he even forgets who the teacher is and he becomes the fox himself. That's really letting go. We're trying to enact the right answer and suddenly we're the fox. It can be liberating to see that you're like the thing you dislike all of a sudden. Exactly. Like one time I walked out of the Zendo Tassajara and I saw blue jays sitting out there in real cold weather, you know. Blue jays are kind of, you know, Tassajara, they're very aggressive and they eat our bagged lunches and stuff. They make a lot of noise and they're constantly teasing us and they kind of... Yes.

[53:08]

I, you know, it bothers me to be teased sometimes. What really bothers me is when somebody teases me and then hides behind something. So, like, Blue Jays tease you at Tassajara, plus they hide behind the Buddhist precepts. They know that these people are not supposed to kill them. And they push, you know, they really push it. They're the most aggressive Blue Jays in California, I'm sure, except maybe at some other monastery or something. Because they know you can do anything to these people and they don't, you know, some of them might trap you but then the others will let us go. So they're just really the most obnoxious and they're using that against us so it really makes us angry. Especially if we can read their minds. But one day I walked out of Zendo and it was really cold. I was freezing, you know, I'd just barely been able to make it through Zendo and I came outside and there was a blue jay sitting there on a branch all puffed up, you know. I just thought, hey, you deserve to be here too. And it's just that, you know, that was pretty neat to finally accept the blue jay, the little rats.

[54:15]

But I wasn't angry at that time. It's a liberation from anger. But liberation from anger is not necessarily attachment, it's just sometimes just embracing something. But when you're embracing something to find out it's not there, that's liberating. So there's a lot of cases where you're holding on to your illness or holding on to your delusion and you bring it to interaction and you can't find it. That's often, that's many stories like that. Yeah, what time is it? In the commentary, it moves from where we are to a discussion between Gui Shen and Yang Shen. about the great function, the great capacity. Yes. And describing great capacity, the great function to . And I wonder if you might comment on that, elucidate that discussion a little bit, including some reason why it arises there.

[55:22]

Why does it come up in this place? Well, this is not, you know, this is not like a definitive answer. This is just what occurs to me. But function and capacity, I sort of, I don't know what the character of capacity is, but function and capacity sound to me like, you know, function and essence too. And so one is the essence and one is the function. And in particularly the case of where you read the story the way Cathy did, Wang Bo did this startlingly effective move, and Bai Zhan could affect him. He could be moved by this extremely skillful move by his student.

[56:31]

who had this tremendous function to activate this essence. That's one way to read it. The other way, actually, this way of reading it I like a lot because the other way is more like the student made a dramatic gesture which pleased the teacher. Right? Right? He did something very dramatic and outrageous. Chinese people don't usually slap each other. But you don't slap your teacher. It's very rare. So he did something very unusual. By the way, Matsu also slugged Bai Zhang. And also Matsu yelled at Bajang and he couldn't hear or see for three days.

[57:35]

Bajang couldn't. He'd had a hard time. Now his students are turning on him. Anyway... But I like this way of reading better because instead of the teacher proving of what the student did to him, He was transformed by what the student did to him. Yeah, you could say it that way. I think that's the commentary on the laughter in the verse. Yeah. Oh. But the commentary on the laughter in the verse, the laughter is by John's laughter.

[58:38]

Yeah, his enlightenment. But the way I understood it before was, by John's enlightenment, he's laughing at his wonderful student. But it's the same thing, isn't it? To appreciate your student means that your student has just enlightened you. That's the nicest thing that your student can do for you is enlighten you. It isn't that you enlighten your student. Your student enlightens you. And then you say, oh, you're enlightened. And I know because now I'm enlightened by you. Or maybe you might say, I'm enlightened by you, but you're not enlightened. But thanks a lot. I've been waiting for this for years. I'll try to do the same for you, but actually I'm retiring now. Thank you. Let's go to the verse before it's too late. Here's the verse. A foot of water, a fathom of wave, for 500 lives, he couldn't do a thing.

[59:48]

Not falling, blind, they haggled. as before meeting a nest of complications. Ah, ha, ha. Understand? If you are clear and free, there is no object to my babble. There's no objection to my babble. Also, my babble is not an object. The spirit songs and shrine dances spontaneously form a harmony. Clapping at intervals, singing lilaa, A foot of water, a fathom of wave. For 500 years, he couldn't do a thing. Some people say, well, what does this thing mean that he's a fox for 500 years? Lifetimes. What does that mean? Well, one meaning of it is that he couldn't do a thing. In other words, for 500 lives, his path to liberation was blocked.

[60:50]

That's what it means. I mean, that's one way to see it. There's no wrongdoing, and there's really no wrong answers, and nobody does really fall into cause and effect. Nobody does transgress. However, if you transgress, even though you really don't, your way is blocked. So he couldn't do anything for 500 years, that's all, 500 lives. His way was blocked. What's his foot of water and thallium of way? Cause and effect? Cause and effect? I think a fathom is seven feet, six feet. A foot of water, a fathom of wave. What's a foot of water and a fathom of wave? Yeah, and what are the relationship between them? Up and down.

[61:54]

And again, waves don't really move, right? We just imagine that they do. The water moves. Actually, the water doesn't move either. Water goes up and this water goes up and down, right? Right. Right. The wave doesn't move this way. No, it doesn't. You imagine it does. No, he's right. It's the water that is moving. Water is staying where it is, but the wave is just the illusion of water moving. The wave is the illusion of the water moving. And so the wave, the illusion, moves. No, the illusion doesn't move. It is the illusion of movement. The illusion of movement doesn't move. Albert moves the illusion. You move the illusion, yes. However, to say that the water is going up and down is bad. The water going up and down is also an illusion. Right. But the wave moving, the wave doesn't move. What happens when it bites?

[62:56]

What? What happens when it bites? The wave doesn't move because the wave is nothing but movement. Right. But nothing moves. The water isn't moving, is it? The water isn't moving that way, is it? No, the water does move up and down, actually. The water really doesn't move up and down, but granted, if you grant that the water moves up and down, okay, which is an illusion, this one's really an illusion. This is double illusion. Okay? At least you can perceive this. This is total imagination. Okay? The level of unreality, the level of emptiness is different for this than for this. The emptiness of the wave is different from the emptiness of this. On the emptiness scale, you're in better shape with this one. For example, Jim's face is empty. Jim's glasses are empty.

[64:06]

If we anybody study his face, we'll soon find out that we don't know what it is, and we'll realize it lacks inherent existence. Any phenomenon lacks inherent existence, but we can study phenomena and find out what we think they are and work on them. The concept of a unicorn, if you look at the concept, you'll find out that the concept is empty. just like the concept of a t-shirt or the concept of a wall, okay? But the reality of a unicorn is empty in a different way than the concept of a unicorn. It's total fabrication. The emptiness of a way of water going up and down, that concept... If you look at it, you'll find that there really isn't such a thing as that movement. But the idea of a wave moving across land, across the water, is total fantasy. It is only fantasy. It has a different kind of emptiness.

[65:07]

Because in one case, what you're doing is... In one case, what you're doing is you're looking at something that you think exists. In the other case, you're looking at the actual activity of attributing existence to something. And the second one is always separate from the first one. They're two different kinds of mental operation. Say that one more time, that first, those two things. The first one is a concept, and if you look at it, it's empty, and before you've studied it, you think it exists, maybe. But after you study it, you realize it doesn't. The second one is the actual act of attributing substance to it. Believing. Believing it's the same thing. And that is empty in a different way than the thing is that you imagine after you attribute something to it.

[66:14]

But all the different things that you attribute something to are all different because of different causes and conditions. But the activity of attributing something, the existence of things, that is always the same. It's the act of attributing. It's fantasy. It's just pure mental fabrication. And that doesn't fall apart the same way as the other things because the other things fall apart by the conditions that give rise to them. And each one will be different. But the act of attributing substance It's always the same. And therefore, you cannot as easily realize its emptiness. As a matter of fact, you don't try to realize its emptiness. In that case, what you do is you leave it alone and realize it's separate from the things which are empty. I didn't mean to get into this, but we did. Things you can analyze and realize that they're ungraspable and wonderfully free because they're empty. And things are always due to causes and conditions, which we're all cooperating in.

[67:20]

Just like I said, there's one thing that all sentient beings are helping you do, and that is non-obscure cause and effect. Everybody helping you do that. And each person is being helped in a different way by different causes and circumstances. But the attribution of substance to our lives, to our experiences, that nobody helps with. Because if they helped, it would always be different, but it's always the same. That's in a different category. And it always rides alongside all phenomena that we imagine to exist. It is simply the imagination that they exist. Okay, let's go on with this wonderful verse. Not falling, not blind, they haggle. Okay? They're arguing back and forth. They're haggling over. Is it not falling or is it not obscuring? But really, they're just haggling, right?

[68:23]

They're just haggling. We're just, you know, exchanging back and forth. Ah, not fall, fall. Not blind, not obscure. As before, entering a nest of complication. So, so Tien Tung is saying, ah, Either way, they're entering the nest of complication. Because, in fact, what do you think? Do you agree? Why not? Let's not be, you know, what do you call it, fastidious about this. Let's be willing to enter. I don't think it's a question of the they. It's a question of we. Yeah, we. Let's be willing to enter. Okay, and then we have ah, ha, ha. And I have a different understanding of that now.

[69:25]

Namely that this is Baijian's happiness at being awakened by his disciple. By his disciple's slap. Understand. This is, they say, is tian teng. Asking us if we understand. And now do we understand? With Kathy's help? Be careful. If you are clear and free, there's no objection to my babble. Now, actually, Kathy, sometime ago had some objection to my babble. Not just mine, maybe, but I was doing more babbling than most. So if you're free and unattached, free and clear, then the babbling in this class won't bother you.

[70:32]

And part of the reason to come to this class is to see if you can sit here for an hour and a half and not be bothered. Now, of course, that's all day long what you should be doing, is to see if the babble you're hearing is bothering you. But this is a special case where you're The only point of this class is that. See if you can sit here with all the babble from outside and inside that's happening and not be disturbed in the slightest. And here again, as you see in the interpretation, my babble means my baby talk. My baby talk won't disturb you. You know, Baba Wawa, is anything said or not? In the Mahaparinirvana Sutra, it says the Buddha has five disabilities. The Buddha is a highly disabled person.

[71:33]

Can't stand up, can't walk, can't sit, and I don't know what else. Buddhists can't do any of that stuff, and they can't even talk. They just go, ba-ba-wa-wa. Bodhisattvas can do things, but Buddhists can't do anything. Did my baby talk bother you? Yeah. Wow. That was very useful. The question was very useful. Spirit songs and shrine dances spontaneously form a harmony, clapping at intervals and singing hila.

[72:36]

Tom was just telling me about at this temple he's visiting in Japan where it's a Zen temple but they have some stuff like looks like Shinto kind of stuff and people come up to the temple and they swing this thing and make these donations like they do at a Shinto shrine and the priest allows this to happen at the temple. As a matter of fact, he loves the people who come and use the temple that way. If you go out in the countryside in Japan, sometimes you might notice that the people in the summer, particularly in the summer, get together and have these festivals. They do dancing and singing and drinking. And sometimes maybe a Zen priest will be there, and a Zen priest might join in freely.

[73:44]

But a Zen priest might also sit there and kind of think, well, this is kind of like, you know... What did you laugh for? Yeah, that's it. Yeah, you got it. This is kind of like peasant stuff, you know. This isn't exactly people who are aspiring to the lofty dharma. But, you know, in terms of cause and effect, if I, as a Zen priest, look down my nose at these people, you know, maybe they're more at one with cause and effect, just dancing around in a peasant simplicity than I am thinking about some wonderful teaching and being a cool Zen monk. And they won't come do memorial services at the temple.

[74:51]

And they won't come do memorial services. You mean if I'm haughty? Well, they might come anyway. They might say, boy... Isn't he, isn't he austere and remote and wouldn't it be good to have him do memorial services? He's such a cool dude. He won't cry if my aunt Taku-shu dies. Can't, you know, you might, it might help your business. It might. No, that's what we're talking about. But I think some Zen priests or some Buddhist priests, they do feel a little bit like, well, let the peasants do that. They want to come and hang out in the temple that way and do these kind of things. It's okay. We can have a temple used for that purpose. But really, what we're about is loving them.

[75:52]

That's really where it's at. That sounds pretty nice, doesn't it? But still, why not just Why not even think they're stupid and go do it with them? But again, only if you have to. Having a hard time tonight, huh? Only if you have to. And again, don't say, okay, this is peasant stuff and, you know, I've got all this great Buddha Dharma, but I'm just going to give it all up and go be with the people. Okay? Maybe it's being willing to be a fox for 500 lifetimes. Pardon? Maybe it's being willing to risk being a fox for 500 lifetimes.

[76:55]

Yeah, I think that I think that that Buddhism is definitely being willing to risk being a fox for 500 lifetimes because if you don't If you don't dare to risk being a fox for 500 lifetimes, you're obscuring cause and effect. That's why Buddhism is, or, you know, not Buddhism, but that's why this teaching is so elegant and so wonderful and so pure. Because you can't even, you can't even try, you can't even, not you can't even, you have to be willing to risk being a fox for 500 lifetimes. Because in fact, every moment you are risking being a fox for 500 lifetimes. Because every moment, the slightest discrepancy, and you're a fox for 500 lifetimes. And if you're not willing to have that risk, you can't live a moment. You can't enter into one moment if you don't take that risk.

[77:56]

Because every moment has that risk. So this seems to be saying to live with that joyfully. Not even that. To say live with it joyfully is carrying a A. Of course it's good to live with it joyfully. Pardon? Being a fox for 500 lifetimes sounds pretty serious. It does, yes. Go on. Maybe it would be all right. You never know until you get there. Well, it wouldn't be all right. It would be terrible. It's terrible. For 500 lives, your liberation is blocked. That's not all right. That's bad. It's really bad. It's not okay, really. Buddhism does not say it's okay. It's terrible. There may be worse things, like 600 lives, you know, or more, and hell is worse than that even.

[78:59]

You don't go to hell for giving the wrong answer. You go to the animal realm. You go to animal realm. And they're human beings that we're talking about. We're talking about human beings being blocked from liberation in that particular type of block. And it's not okay. It's what's happening, so you shouldn't fight it. It's okay in the sense of don't fight it. But it's not okay. It's a problem. If there's problems, it's a problem. But in other words, we have to be willing to live in the world where there is the chance of slipping that way all the time, because there always is that, that is the way the world is. But, you also said something about don't take it too seriously. That's fine too. And in fact, when he went to Bai Zhang, and when he asked Bai Zhang, and when Bai Zhang answered him, he stopped taking it seriously, and he was liberated. So definitely don't take it seriously.

[80:05]

And also don't take the risk of slipping too seriously. Don't take the risk too seriously. In other words, don't tell yourself to avoid it. But don't take the risk not seriously enough so that you dare to go around telling yourself to joyously go forward in life. Practice should be joyful. And if it's not joyful, it's off. But to go around telling yourself to be joyful will throw you off worse. No, this just seems to have such a light quality to it. This verse is so light. Yeah. It's talking about something pretty serious. It's about through the lifetime. It's okay to be light about 500 lifetimes, that's fine. I'm just saying, let's not tell ourselves to be light. If we're light, fine. But don't tell yourself to be light.

[81:07]

And again, I tell you that, but I don't mean that seriously. But don't tell yourself to be light. But in other words, don't make a heavy thing out of telling yourself to be light. It sounds like one is desirable to be, to respond immediately, just immediately to the whole cloth and text, almost without any internalization or any feeling. If I did this, I did that right around. I'm sure that's enough. But that must come in. You can't really completely eliminate that level either. You can't eliminate that level either? Right. Don't try to eliminate that level. Or, when I say don't try to eliminate that level, I mean try to eliminate that level. You won't be able to eliminate trying to eliminate that level.

[82:11]

Then students are always trying to eliminate that level. They can't stop it. Because there's so many teachings which sound like you're supposed to eliminate that level. So they keep slipping in that direction too. Okay, don't do that, don't do that, don't do that, don't do that. If you're willing to take the risk of making all these mistakes, you're in pretty good shape. Now, is there anything more than just being willing to make all these mistakes? Well, that's making them. Why did he get named so badly? Why? Because he was a teacher. Do you think at the time when he answered this question, he was really trying to give the right answer?

[83:15]

I mean, it sort of sounds like Jeopardy. I think quite likely he was trying to give the right answer. And I would say that if you're a Buddhist teacher and you try to give the right answer, you're going to get in big trouble. Did he try to answer like a fox? Don't you think he tried to approach the question like a fox? I don't think so, but you might be right. Well, why would he be turned into a fox? Why would he be turned into a fox? I mean, considering the literary... If you try to be a fox, you usually don't wind up as a fox. Well, you could be sort of being lazy. Sort of being lazy. I don't think he's being lazy. I don't think you wind up as a fox from being lazy. I think you wind up as a fox from being greedy. or ambitious. Pride. Or dishonest. Lazy is none of those things. Huh? Lazy is not greedy.

[84:16]

Lazy is not greedy. I'm not saying lazy is not greedy. Yeah, I'll say lazy is not greedy. Greed and laziness are two different things. That's right. Sometimes you're greedy and not the least bit lazy. Don't you notice? Yeah, I notice that. But they can go together, they sometimes do. You can be, for example, you can be really greedy to take a nap. Exactly. But you can also be greedy to give the right answer. I would guess, my guess would be that he was trying to give the right answer and that was his intention to give the right answer. And he thought the right answer was the one he gave. If he didn't think it was the right answer, I don't think he would have gotten as much trouble. yeah that was his main trouble he thought it was the right answer so that's why giving the right answer again and again you might the right answer could be he does not fall in cause and effect as long as you don't do attach to it

[85:20]

Not attaching, being clear and unattached means you don't get bothered by my babble. It means also you don't get bothered by your own babble. So somebody comes up to you and says, is the enlightened person free of a cause and effect? And you say, yes. But you don't believe it and you don't hold to it and you're clear and unattached. It doesn't hurt you or them. And yes. Is it not something bigger in terms of where he was or what he meant? I mean, it wasn't just a single answer. It speaks to his attitude in general being a problem. I'm just thinking, he didn't get 500 lives at Fox. It was just for that one answer. It took him 500 lives to ask the other question. It took 500 lives to ask the other question, yeah. To think about letting go of the jumps. Yeah, okay. In conjunction with this case, I would recommend that you read case 93 and case 74 of the Blue Cliff Record.

[86:33]

The reason I suggest that is because case 93 of the Blue Cliff Record It goes like this. A monk asked Ta Guan, Chan Ching said, joyful praise on the occasion of the meal. What is the essence of the meaning? And Ta Guan did a dance. The monk bowed. Ta Guan said, what have you seen that you bow? The monk did a dance. Ta Guan said, you wild fox spirit. And this case refers to case 74, which is about this monk who used to come every day before the meal outside a monk's hall with his rice pail and say something like, Dear Bodhisattvas, it's time to eat. And he would dance every day. Kind of a wild guy. Anyway, those two stories together bring up another aspect of this business, which I think you would find helpful to read those other two cases.

[87:52]

And again, when you read them, the most important thing is, if you're unattached and clear, it won't bother you.

[88:01]

@Transcribed_UNK
@Text_v005
@Score_82.99